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San Francisco's Yellow Cab Files For Bankruptcy (cnn.com)
Applehu Akbar writes: Yellow Cab Cooperative, the largest taxi company in San Francisco, has filed Chapter 11. While competition from those newfangled ride-sharing services is a natural target for blame, a more proximate cause is Yellow Cab losing an $8 million accident liability suit by a passenger who is now paralyzed. Apparently the Yellow Cab drivers are...registered as independent contractors. So much for the medallion cab argument that they offer superior liability coverage.
We don't want to actually, you know, read the story anyways. We'd rather bitch about Uber or Taxis in general with no actual facts to back it up.
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Like this one?
If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
wut happens when an uber driver paralyzes someone?
San Fran's cowardly compressed installer files are taking a stand for bankruptcy? ???
To be fair, they did cover it.
Maybe they need bankruptcy insurance :-)
The lesson is that ANY cab-like co better be ready for an 8-mil zinger.
Table-ized A.I.
So much for the medallion cab argument that they offer superior liability coverage.
Doesn't Uber only offer 1 million in liability cover as well? I guess in the case of an accident with an Uber driver it is the driver that is fucked rather than the Uber themselves.
They're still independent contractors which means it is the contractors' responsibility to register whatever they need to register. I am an independent contractor for some companies, I collect sales tax and have to report/pay income taxes, social security etc, I am responsible for my insurance and the locality's business licenses.
I could easily go ahead and collect a number of pay checks without ever reporting them as business income, ask people to pay cash or whatever but I would be responsible if the tax man or insurance man cometh.
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was that their biggest creditor was because they couldn't weasel out of paying for a terrible wreak caused by one of their drivers. $8 mil of their $20 mil in debt is for that. I wonder if this is just the first step in folding the company and reforming it so they can skip out on paying the poor gal who got hit. This is why folks in the know hate Uber. It's all about externalizing your costs onto somebody else.Uber's doing the same damn thing but "with an App" so it's OK.
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If they went bankrupt because of a lawsuit related to an injury then there is clearly more financial backing there as the plaintiff was able to go after their assets. Someone like Uber would have walked away from the case and thrown the driver under the bus (which they've already done at least once) and the person that got hurt would have never gotten a dime.
The very fact that the victim here was able to go after corporate assets shows they are more financially liable than Uber. The result being the article proves the exact opposite of what the summary tries to say it does.
Filing for chapter 11, is not the same as filing for bankruptcy.
Chapter 11 is bankruptcy protection, It's basically saying "Creditors, hold off a sec, lets see if we can make this work our so we can still pay you and not actually go bankrupt."
But hey, fortunately there is an equivalent number of Uber drivers on the road that are making as much or more money to support their families with Uber money they rake in. Right? Right? I can feel this country healing. I can feel the healing.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
Interesting, please do go on.
Trolling is a art,
San Fran is full of faggots...
If only that were true -- at least San Francisco was interesting when it was a gay mecca and center of the gay pride movement and people of all races, sexual orientation and income could live there. Now it's just full of boring well paid, mostly male and white techies, which pushes out all of the old interesting businesses in favor of bars and restaurants that cater to these newcomers that serve things like $20 locally grown hand-raised artisanal organic martinis with an olive on the side flown in daily from Venus.
I was an independent contractor for the last third of my IT career. That was when I made the most money. And yes, a part of it was in San Francisco.
Sure the lame arguments on the cab industry were verified.... but the benefits of ride sharing will likely be debunked too as the industry grows.
In the end, the business models are running this show hence there's no right or wrong, you just want to be on the side that benefits. Darwinism at its best I guess.
but uber drivers are not true IC's unlike say some useing a work market type board where the board just takes "fees like ebay with very little control over the work"
Branded drivers be it being an a taxi, fedex, cableco, uber, food delivery, etc. They control to varying levels the dispatch, fees, hiring, routes, etc.
Also with drivers on the road there are lot's of 3rd party victims that did not say yes to any EULA or disclaimer. And They should make so that there Branded drivers are covered for the full shift in full liability and can't hide under a subcontractor that they don't fully vet.
That is what being an independent contractor means for you.
The reason that Truck Companies, Taxi Companies, some Chicken Farmers are "independent contractors" is to push risk and cost out of the corporation and onto the I/C. And the profit stays with the corporation, it does not follow the risk or cost very well.
With Truck Companies, they dont have to carry the insurance, dont have to worry as much about fluctuations in the cost of diesel, Truck Maintenance, etc.
I recall a news article about how some Truckers were loosing money on loads because diesel costs went up fast,and the corporation the drivers were dealing with just didn't care, "the loads were sold, if you want to continue dealing with us, take it"
I also recall an article about one of the big Chicken sellers, they would have farms, the next group of gullible "we will make millions" people would buy the farm, because the "per chicken" payment was good. And maybe for a while, it would be. But then, they would lower the "per chicken" amount. Again and again, until those owners where soaked and gave up.
I understand that Home Depot will progressively lower the amount they are willing to pay their suppliers year over year, until the supplier goes under or gets smart and stops dealing with them.
emt 377 emt 4
TL/DR version: Super old news; done for debt shedding.
This was publicly announced 3 weeks ago, but it's been known for a month and a half (since 10 Dec 2015), when a letter was sent out to co-op members, and it was primarily done to shed debt, and because the coop (which is how it's organized) is not attracting new drivers; with a limited number of medallions, taxi coops compete to attract those with medallions. Yellow cab isn't doing as well in this as other companies and co-ops. Primarily they are losing medallioned drivers to Flywheel Taxi (formerly, DeSoto Cab) and Luxor Cab.
"The bankruptcy filing will allow the co-op to shed its mounting debts."
"Fewer drivers mean fewer profits for Yellow Cab, the co-op admitted in a letter to its members."
"The company told the San Francisco Examiner its ridership numbers are healthy. But in a letter to shareholders obtained by the Examiner, Yellow Cab Co-Op President Pamela Martinez wrote that they must do more with less to survive."
^^^^---- note: not losing business to ride sharing services ----^^^^
“In reality, we have the best color scheme there is in the world, we’ve got a lot of loyal customers, we still get a high volume of calls to our color scheme on a daily basis,” he [Jim Gillespie] said.
"Financially, he said the straw that broke the camel’s back were a number of lawsuits which ended up hurting the company’s bottom line."
"On background, multiple sources told the Examiner that cab companies are having a tough time hiring competent drivers and may be hiring drivers with spotty driving records. Gillespie denied this, but he did say the lawsuits were harmful to the co-op."
http://www.sfexaminer.com/yell...
Good-riddance to government-protected rent-seeking SOBs. That's the world's smallest violin you hear playing, folks.
Their cabs don't show up when called.
Their dispatchers hang up ok you. When you complain to anyone at all, there's no accountability because as noted, they're all independent contractors. I think it's supposed to be a coop, but it's more like a cartel.
Did you not read the article? The Yellow Taxi company operates as a co-operative and argued that the driver was an independent contractor, just like Uber does. Apparently this position did not fly with the court, and it seems reasonable that if Uber made the same argument, the court would also make Uber liable.
Actually, New York taxicabs are the classic example of how to create a liability shield. Basically they all operate as ICs and each one has the minimum required state liability, so the state lets them get away with having no liability as a whole for things that cost more than that small amount (maybe $50K, which in New York is like I tripped and stubbed someone's toe).
Every case is going to be decided a bit differently based on location, corporate structure, and the quality of the lawyers, etc..., unless Uber successfully lobbies the states for laws limiting liability. If Uber starts losing cases they will probably be able to do that until they start having self-driving ubers. Then it's going to get dicey for a while.
Filing for chapter 11, is the same as filing for Bankruptcy PROTECTION. No one has to file for bankruptcy; they just run out of money and shut down.
Glad to see one of the benefits of market pressure. Yellow Cab has been a lousy vendor for decades, and they were protected by the medallion system. Hats off to Uber for blasting that cronyism business model to pieces.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Donald Trump, is that you? Or is that you channeling Ted Cruz??
Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
a more proximate cause is Yellow Cab losing an $8 million accident liability suit by a passenger who is now paralyzed. [...] So much for the medallion cab argument that they offer superior liability coverage.
Ehem, you did notice that the first and last sentence contradict each other? If they had to pay out $8 mio. then obviously they do offer liability coverage, otherwise the cab driver and/or his insurance would have paid.
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"I can shoot anyone in the audience and it won't be a voter of mine."
(Or some crazy babble like that Donald Trump says. Hard to understand the fool.)
Also with drivers on the road there are lot's of 3rd party victims that did not say yes to any EULA or disclaimer. And They should make so that there Branded drivers are covered for the full shift in full liability and can't hide under a subcontractor that they don't fully vet.
I think that the critical point here is that one of the arguments against Uber has been that their drivers are 'Independent Contractors'. Well, it turns out that MOST taxi companies use the same employment model with even less justification/more control over their drivers(which would get them counted as employees most of the time). They even have lower levels of insurance. NYC taxis, if I remember, are only covered for $100k, while Uber has a $1M policy.
As for 3rd party victims, I'd say to get off it. There's 3rd party people no matter what kind of driver you're talking about - from a Walmart truck driver to a Uber driver who works 4 hours every other week or something, when the surge prices hit and it's worth it to him.
I don't read AC A human right
I understand that Home Depot will progressively lower the amount they are willing to pay their suppliers year over year, until the supplier goes under or gets smart and stops dealing with them.
Walmart was explicitly known for doing this, and not only this, but telling their suppliers things like 'move to china so you can be cheaper!'
Quite the change for a company that used to boast 'made in america'.
I don't read AC A human right
It took a court to break the company's argument that since it's drivers were independent contractors, the company itself shouldn't be found liable.
Indeed, I think there's a misconception on what liability coverage is, and how liability insurance works.
You see, any liability insurance police is limited by a maximum payout - For example, a common one is $100k per person, $300k per incident coverage, my 'step up' from that which is $250k per person/$500k per incident. This is generally enough to cover most claims. But liability itself doesn't have a limit unless a statute(law) has been passed limiting it.
So the taxi driver gets into an accident and causes $8M of damage. Must of been nasty. But he's carrying the minimum insurance. $100k is paid to the harmed individual via the insurance. Obviously this is 'no where near enough'. So the harmed party would go after the rest of the cab driver's assets. Problem: Most people in the USA are effectively 'judgement proof' because their debts exceed their assets, and as a matter of law, their home, primary vehicle, and such are generally untouchable*. Most cab driver's aren't rich enough to have a spare yacht that can be sold. So lawyer and court fees would quickly drive the driver bankrupt. You can't get money from a stone.
So in this case they then go after the parent company - Yellow Cab. It does it's best to argue that it's not liable. Hell, it doesn't have insurance for this. Thus, when the verdict is handed down, they're 'forced' to file for bankruptcy, if one of the more minor versions of it.
When people mention 'liability coverage', they generally mean insurance, which this isn't. This is straight up liability.
*They can force the sale of extra vehicles, if not used for work. But for something like a primary residence, if the judge determines that selling the residence/vehicle and buying a more modest version won't actually yield a significant amount of money, they won't do so. Figure on losing 20-40% of the value of the property in question, and suddenly while there might be 'modest' gains to be had, kicking a taxi driver out of a $200k lousy home and forcing him into an apartment would actually COST money. You're not getting much selling a $10k car to the dealer only to buy an $8k car.
I don't read AC A human right
Allahn rahmeti ve bereketi tüm islam aleminin
...the taxi I booked isn't showing up!
not a single uber driver carries $8 million in liability insurance...hell, uber doesnt extend that much extra.
lol
I find it pretty shocking that driver insurance in the US is limited liability cover.
In the UK there is no limit to the liability for personal injury claims; only 3rd property damage is limited to a minimum of £1M. Indeed this unlimited liability cost one insurance company £22Million when the driver left the road causing a major train crash leaving 10 people dead and 80+ injured.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
Many years ago, My dad worked for a company that had a customer that was about 95% of their business. They dropped that customer, because they were not making enough money on it.
Took them a few years to crawl back, but they managed and became a leader in their range, making a LOT more money. Afterwards it was the best decision they made, but it was by no means an easy one. Could have gone wrong and they would have been closed.
The lesson here: diversify.
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
Truckers were loosing money
Damn, I wish I had been driving behind those truckers..
but uber drivers are not true IC's unlike say some useing a work market type board where the board just takes "fees like ebay with very little control over the work"
Branded drivers be it being an a taxi, fedex, cableco, uber, food delivery, etc. They control to varying levels the dispatch, fees, hiring, routes, etc.
So you're saying that "branded drivers" are even more like employees than Uber drivers?
Do you understand what you're talking about? Do you think that Cruz and Trump are the same? Or is it - they're the same because I disagree with them?
If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
For what it's worth, I found this post by Chris Johnson interesting:
It's designed to make maximum use of crazy people and force the others to live up to that standard or be fired.
I'll define 'crazy Uber people' not as 'danger to customers', but 'people who are bringing more value in terms of vehicle, skill and desire to please, than they are getting back in pay and benefits'. So the crazy Uber person is the one who keeps buying a new Lexus or whatever, vacuums their car three times a day and busts their ass to outperform all the other Uber drivers, so they can continue to win out over anybody else seeking to be a driver.
The key factor is that they are giving more than they get back, in the belief that they're cornering some kind of market or buying in to something important.
If you make a business that relies on people like this, you can demolish anybody else because you've worked out how to get voluntary unpaid labor, like the Amazon exec who was said to use her own money to hire subcontractors to do more. As long as there are people who are willing to do that, the market breaks and Amazon/Uber get to do what Wal-Mart did in small towns, break the back of other market participants so they can't break even or continue.
Another way to be a crazy Uber person is to put more depreciation and wear and tear on your car than you can afford to repair (or replace). It's easy to be crazy in these ways. It's externalities which are easy to overlook. These Amazon/Uber business models are designed to leverage that kind of crazy as hard as possible, and kick out everybody who's not willing to lose (one way or another) on the deal. Psychology is useful in getting people to buy into this stuff.
As they say, a cult.
mfwright@batnet.com
From what I've heard about taxi drivers there, desperate immigrants.
As for 'chock full', it depends on when and where you are - most of the 'taxis' are probably actually 'black cars', IE 'livery', which are rented more like limos rather than hailed. It's actually illegal for a black car to respond to a street hail - and the cops run stings occasionally.
I don't read AC A human right
Do you understand what you're talking about?
Do you understand what I'm joking about?
Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
Or is it?
eat my ass you rude stinking asshole cab drivers! i know not all of them were bad, but it was common enough to be a running joke everywhere in the world. it took too long, but now you pieces of shit can start losing your jobs like you've deserved for DECADES. next up, convenience stores
no. flew over my head.
damn lack of emojis
If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
It's generally kind of difficult to tell what they're saying. They pretty much have to be a troll. Take a look at their posting history, notice a trend? Yeah... Things like spelling, grammar, and making sense are not only optional but coincidental. I think most of us have learned to just not respond.
I have tried interacting with them, nicely even - as I am wont to do, for clarification as to the spelling and other words(?) they'd used. They didn't respond. I've seen others do the same thing. They get the same lack of a reply. But no, he's here and posts most every day. He indicates that he's native to Chicago area and there's no way that anyone can be that poor at the English language and be a native of Chicago.
They can be pretty bad, yes but there's a point where it has to be intentional. He does respond to people, so he has notifications enabled and sees notifications, he just doesn't reply if you question him about what he means or point out any spelling/grammar issues. Seriously, click his username and read a couple of pages worth of comments. There's no way that can be unintentional.
I simply refuse to believe that they're actually as dumb as they pretend they are. It's physically impossible to be that dumb and still use a computer well enough to navigate to Slashdot. It's physically impossible to be that dumb and not have poked out both eyes while trying use a fork and knife at the dinner table. I can not accept that someone can be that dumb and still function. It is, literally - not figuratively, impossible.
Such may exist but I know of no modern browser that does not have spell checking functionality available and they are, as far as I'm aware, enabled by default. No, a third language speaker doesn't solve it - no other third language has a structure(?) like that. Seriously, there's no structure, in any third language, that is gibberish.
Add to this that, perhaps entirely by accident - it's almost certainly at least coincidental as it appears to follow no structure either, that he sometimes says intelligible things and they not only make sense but they're intelligent. There's always the possibility of drugs and alcohol but I consider myself a bit of an expert on both and it is my, authoritative, opinion that any quantity of drugs or alcohol that would make someone post like that would also render them unable to login, type, or even use a bathroom properly.
Given that they sometimes do post articulate and intelligent posts, but that those occasions are so rare, I can only conclude that they make their stupid posts intentionally. There is some chance that they care so little of themselves and have so little awareness of self due to severe, crippling, depression and that has rendered them unwilling to actually care about their spelling. However, I'm not a psychiatrist but I'd presume that they've have committed suicide by now.
Allow me to quote some of their posts - you can verify these are direct, unadulterated, quotes.
>Yes but Disney contracted the work out so we did not due the hiring they did.
>ban outsourcing firms from using them or cap
>local passenger rail loses money as setting fairs at an level needed to be in the black will make people not use it.
>Next time forum a union!
(I should note, the above was marked insightful +3. No, I have no idea but I assume it's "form" and people have just acclimated to Joe's "spelling.")
Those are not taken out of context, they are direct quotes, and that's limiting myself to JUST the first page of comments. Yet, as I said, sometimes they post something that's intelligent and articulate. So, I presume this, the above posts, are them trolling. Sometimes you can parse them, they're not an ESL speaker, and they indicate(d) that they are a Chicago native.
I've been trying to figure out what he's been saying for years now. I'm almost certain that not even he knows and that he just mashes keys and then (now) uses spell check to randomly fix things. No, seriously - it used to be worse! Now t
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
Voice dictation software