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The Telecommunications Ball Is Now In Cuba's Court

lpress writes: The FCC has dropped Cuba from its exclusion list (PDF), so there are now no restrictions on U.S. telecom company dealings with ETECSA, the Cuban government telecommunication monopoly, or any other Cuban organization. Last week the U.S. sent its second high-level telecommunication delegation to Cuba. The delegates were FCC Chairman Tom Wheeler and other government officials plus representatives of Cisco, Comcast, and Ericsson. Some of the news: there are at least 6 proposals for an undersea cable between Havana and Florida; Cisco has proposed a Network Academy at Cuba's leading computer science university (Chinese infrastructure dominates today); 4G mobile connectivity was discussed and Google was conspicuously absent. The time for Cuba to act is now — while President Obama is still in office.

59 comments

  1. A pair of great walls! by blueshift_1 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I guess trump will build a Great Physical Wall on the boarder of Mexico and a Great Firewall on the boarder of Cuba. Who knew he could make the US look so much like China.

    1. Re: A pair of great walls! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Especially if it keeps out the comments misspelling "border".

    2. Re: A pair of great walls! by avandesande · · Score: 1

      You have never heard of the Boarder of Cuba? There are plenty of makework jobs there.

      --
      love is just extroverted narcissism
    3. Re: A pair of great walls! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Manifest Destiny part 2: "the Purifier"

    4. Re:A pair of great walls! by cayenne8 · · Score: 1

      I guess trump will build a Great Physical Wall on the boarder of Mexico and a Great Firewall on the boarder of Cuba. Who knew he could make the US look so much like China.

      I"m not great Trump fan, but as to this point, I'd not heard him say anything against the opening up of the US and easing of restrictions to Cuba.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
  2. Here we go again ... by gstoddart · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    So, US companies are already looking to carve up Cuba for their own interests, and what happens to the Cuban people be damned.

    Hey, I know, stop meddling and let them decide what the hell they want.

    America suddenly shoving all this stuff into Cuba isn't necessarily doing anything good for Cubans in the long-run.

    You can't go from 6 decades of isolation to thinking US style Capitalism isn't going to fuck up the place if you try to do it overnight.

    This is the same kind of colonialism which got them into the mess they were in when the revolution happened in the first place.

    You want to improve relations? Close Guantanamo, and stop pretending a Constitutional amendment jammed in against their will has any validity ... otherwise you're still treating them like a colony instead of a separate country.

    --
    Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    1. Re:Here we go again ... by radiumsoup · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So, US companies are already looking to carve up Cuba for their own interests, and what happens to the Cuban people be damned.

      That's not how Capitalism works.

      Hey, I know, stop meddling and let them decide what the hell they want.

      That *is* how Capitalism works.

    2. Re:Here we go again ... by DaHat · · Score: 2

      You can't go from 6 decades of isolation to thinking US style Capitalism isn't going to fuck up the place if you try to do it overnight.

      Which is why US style capitalism won't be happening down there anytime soon, the state was and is in charge of any such businesses and the price of doing business there will be greasing the palms of the leaders.

    3. Re:Here we go again ... by gstoddart · · Score: 1, Troll

      That's not how Capitalism works.

      Capitalism works however the assholes with the most money decide it works.

      It's not some law of nature, and it never has been.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    4. Re:Here we go again ... by avandesande · · Score: 1

      I think they will have Mc Culture sooner than you think.

      --
      love is just extroverted narcissism
    5. Re:Here we go again ... by radiumsoup · · Score: 2, Informative

      Don't conflate Cronyism with Capitalism...Cronyism can (and does) exist in virtually all feasible economic models. You are, indirectly but fundamentally, describing Capitalism as the solution to Cronyism, but calling them the same thing. They are not.

    6. Re:Here we go again ... by oh_my_080980980 · · Score: 1

      What world do you live in? Non US companies have been doing business with Cuba for decades. US is late to the party.

    7. Re:Here we go again ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      All in theory yes. In reality not even close, the statement from the GP is so much more accurate

      So, US companies are already looking to carve up Cuba for their own interests, and what happens to the Cuban people be damned.

      The consumer gets very little power in making decisions on their own. The power really lies with the companies. Chemicals put into our food, clothes, furniture, packaging, etc all put there without our consent or knowledge and absolutely no testing done on any of them other than, well it didn't kill someone on contact, must be ok.

      Flint, MI water supply. Consumers had zero say in where their water came from or how it was treated.

      Depending on where you live, you get little to no say in your electricity coming from green, renewable resources or from coal.

      Again, depending on where you live, you have little to no choice in telecom/internet providers. Which, btw, is the vast majority of the land.

      Consumer purchasing power only comes down to a few end user items and brands. But for the actual companies running the world, we have no choice at all.

    8. Re:Here we go again ... by oh_my_080980980 · · Score: 1

      Ugly American truly applies. They have a lot more entrepreneurs than you think.

    9. Re:Here we go again ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... thinking US style Capitalism isn't going to fuck up the place ...

      Cubans have pirated movies, laptops and fridges in their tiny apartments, plus a good idea of what modern civilization should be like. The problem is the same as 59 years ago; politicians can be bought rather cheap. It's starts off good: McCulture (to borrow from Slashdot poster avandesande) promises everyone a job flipping burgers and the economy blossoms. Then the corporations and the banks want to pay less and less for owning more and more: They begin by corrupting the political system and silencing the citizens. This time around, the Cubans will know what to look for.

    10. Re:Here we go again ... by cat_jesus · · Score: 2

      Just because Americans couldn't go to Cuba, it doesn't mean they were isolated. Everyone else could go there but Americans. And you could actually go to Cuba if you went through Canada or Mexico. The Cubans were pretty nice about not stamping Americans' passports so you wouldn't get in trouble when you returned to the assholes at our border.

    11. Re:Here we go again ... by operagost · · Score: 2

      The lease of Guatanamo Bay really has nothing to do with the current process of lifting sanctions. The Gitmo issue is about human rights IRL enemy combatants, and I imagine the average Jose in Cuba is a bit more concerned about changes that affect him directly.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    12. Re:Here we go again ... by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 2

      One should look at the results. Oh, cheap products cramming shelves in the US.

      Oh look, youngsters lining up to put on Coke T shirts and get real jobs and smart phones.

      The bizarro world antics of some posters reminds me of the SNL Deiter skit with Mike Meyers and Woody Harrelson, who played a formerly affected art snob like Deiter, but from East Germany, now running around after the Berlin Wall fell with a beer chugging hat on and beer tubes in his mouth. WHOOOHOOO!!! WHOOOHOOO!

      Some of you are just so upset over this.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    13. Re:Here we go again ... by khallow · · Score: 1, Insightful
      Please, stop being an idiot. For example, it was the state of Michigan which had interfered with the affairs of Flint, not a business. And you can always buy your own power generators, if you want green or coal power. And the US's perplexing maze of regulation has done much to restrict your choice of telecom/internet provider. For example, why haven't the supposedly superior cell phone networks of Europe or Japan been extended to the US? It's a big market with lots of money.

      Consumer purchasing power only comes down to a few end user items and brands. But for the actual companies running the world, we have no choice at all.

      Which if you think about it, is a strength of capitalism. You shouldn't have a say in most of what goes on in the world. It's not your business.

    14. Re:Here we go again ... by operagost · · Score: 1

      That's funny, because all the members of the Castro family like to whine incessantly about how the US embargo was oppressing them. They have the rest of the world!

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    15. Re:Here we go again ... by Strider- · · Score: 4, Informative

      You can't go from 6 decades of isolation to thinking US style Capitalism isn't going to fuck up the place if you try to do it overnight.

      Uhmm, Cuba was only isolated by the United States for the last 6 decades. Other countries have been doing business with them for a very long time.

      Back in 2006 I was sent to Guantanamo Bay for a week-long contract. As I was walking into the Navy Exchange to grab some beer, my blackberry rang, I picked it up and answered, and everyone around me looked at me like I was from Mars. It dawned on me at that point that I probably had the only working cell phone on base, since as a Canadian (with a Canadian service contract), my phone had no trouble roaming onto the Cuban cell network.

      Yeah, it was only GPRS, but for text email on a Blackberry it was still better than two rocks to bang together.

      --
      ...si hoc legere nimium eruditionis habes...
    16. Re:Here we go again ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So, US companies are already looking to carve up Cuba for their own interests, and what happens to the Cuban people be damned.

      US Companies? Cuban people "be damned"? You cheesy asshole, that is the way communism has been treating them! That is why their county is a throwback to the 1950s economically and throws you in jail for making Castro jokes!

      Hey, I know, stop meddling and let them decide what the hell they want.

      You think they wanted a police state that even takes the fish they catch to try to eat more than beans and rice?! What the hell is wrong with you?

      This is the same kind of colonialism which got them into the mess they were in when the revolution happened in the first place.

      No, the mess they have came from the revolution lead by communists Casto and Guevarra.

      You want to improve relations? Close Guantanamo, and stop pretending a Constitutional amendment jammed in against their will has any validity ... otherwise you're still treating them like a colony instead of a separate country.

      When will you be getting on the boat to give Canada back to the First Nations?

    17. Re:Here we go again ... by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      The whole idea is in and of itself crazy. Cuba should buy stuff made in China from the US because, 'er' 'um', they will be made to suffer if they do not. Reality is Cuba wants US sanctions to end because it affects Cuba's trade with other countries. Sure they'll be polite and buy some stuff from the US and allow US tourists in but they would be stupid to allow the US government to take total control over their communications infrastructure. Main goal, to be able to completely silence the country, should the US 'er' when the US, wishes to initiate a US led coup. Until such time as they can force a group of Cubans in Cuba to cheer the new democratic government (US controlled puppet government). Until there is significant change in the US government they would be foolish to allow them back in, in any significant way. First sign of real change withdrawal from Guantanamo Bay, instead of current planning for regime change.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    18. Re:Here we go again ... by cat_jesus · · Score: 1

      When you say "interfered with the affairs of Flint" you probably should say, "set aside democracy in Flint and installed a city dictator who reports to the Governor."

    19. Re:Here we go again ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      A company that does business with Cuba cannot do business with the US. A ship cannot dock in a US port before 6 months have passed since it docked in a Cuban port. It's not that simple.

    20. Re:Here we go again ... by khallow · · Score: 1

      When you say "interfered with the affairs of Flint" you probably should say, "set aside democracy in Flint and installed a city dictator who reports to the Governor."

      Yes, I could say that though that would gloss over the legal restraints on said "city dictator" or the existence of the democratically elected city council.

    21. Re:Here we go again ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The "Ugly American" in the eponymous book is actually a down to earth sensible engineer that learns the local language and gives useful advice. So you're correct, they could use a few Ugly Americans.

    22. Re:Here we go again ... by l0n3s0m3phr34k · · Score: 1

      Buying stuff from the US is, mostly, STILL buying stuff from China...just with a giant markup for the middle men.

    23. Re:Here we go again ... by khallow · · Score: 0

      First sign of real change withdrawal from Guantanamo Bay, instead of current planning for regime change.

      No, planning for regime change is the safe bet. The Castros will be gone shortly. Raul Castro plans on retiring by 2018 and might have an unplanned retirement before that. There will be a lot of changes when that happens.

      Second, Cuba's business model as a client state for the USSR and China is long obsolete. They need to change radically. I believe that will include regime change as part of the process.

    24. Re:Here we go again ... by KGIII · · Score: 1

      Yeah, you just put a piece of paper in there and they stamp that. I've been to Cuba a couple of times. I'm a bit fond of the place. I'd actually pondered seeing if I could retire there and then I thought about it some more and realized that they'd not want me and that I'd not actually be happy living there. However, it's a great place to visit for a little while and the people are very awesome.

      I'm reasonably fluent in Spanish so I don't need a guided tour or anything. I've enjoyed myself a great deal both times that I've gone there. I'm actually pondering going there again soon - before they start changing a great deal. I don't worry so much that they'll change - I just worry that they'll have other people there are are not Cuban. I don't want to go to Cuba to see and hang out with other tourists. I just want to go and visit and get to know the people and the culture.

      That sort of thinking has often meant I get off the beaten path. I travel - I travel a lot. I just don't like to go to tourist destinations very much. Why would I want to go to somewhere new, somewhere different, and see the same people that I can see at home? I literally retired in "Vacationland." I see enough tourists. I've even had whole tour buses come up my driveway, by mistake, looking for foliage. Fortunately, there's room for them to turn around. I've actually let 'em get out and walk around and stomp through the woods once but GPS mistakenly points to my driveway as a road. Yes, yes it was a road - fifty years ago. It was a logging road and never fit for automobiles until I paved it.

      So, they come driving up - sometimes more than once a year. By all rights, it looks like it'd be a scenic view and a trip back to the main road. Well, it is... Technically. You're just probably not going to want to do it in a bus (though I'd love to let them try) and it now goes across my lawn where it is no longer really a road.

      So, I get a bunch of French speaking folks from Quebec. They're generally polite and a bit embarrassed. I am actually a bit used to it now - it has happened multiple times. I'm not entirely sure why they come to Maine to look at foliage - they've got plenty of foliage of their own but they tend to do some shopping down here as I guess some things are less expensive in the US. Why they don't just come shopping, I'll never know. I mean, they do that too but why these particular people (and there are a whole lot of them - like bus after bus after bus, for about a month) come down here to look at foliage is kind of confusing to me. They've got fine foliage. I'm pretty much about 45 minutes from the other side of the border and that includes 20 minutes to get through the border. I've asked and mostly they mention shopping and, of course, foliage. So, I don't know why they don't just come shopping and they've got the same damned foliage I have. I'm literally about 45 minutes from being on the other side of the border...

      Ah well... At least it gives me something to ponder but it means that I don't actually want to go see tourists when I'm *being* a tourist.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    25. Re:Here we go again ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Uhmm, Cuba was only isolated by the United States for the last 6 decades. Other countries have been doing business with them for a very long time.

      What I find interesting about that is when it comes to cars all you hear about is how they keep 1950's era American cars running. It's fairly impressive (I recommend Yank Tanks, a documentary about it).

      I realize they're relatively poor but couldn't they import some cheap cars from elsewhere? I'm sure there must be some but I don't remember seeing any in footage of Cuba or hearing about any.

    26. Re:Here we go again ... by rtb61 · · Score: 2

      When US plans for regime change, first is it political campaign donations via NGOs and from there it escalates to bombs and mass murder. Nope, America should fuck off and let the Cubans decide, no more, fucked up regime changes.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
  3. Comcast huh? by mentil · · Score: 4, Funny

    plus representatives of Cisco, Comcast [...]
    there are at least 6 proposals for an undersea cable between Havana and Florida

    The downside is that the undersea cable will have a 3Mbps uplink and cap the island nation at 250GB/month.
    It's ok, Republicans don't think they'd need more than that.

    --
    Corruption is convincing someone that the selfless ideal is the same as their selfish ideal.
    1. Re:Comcast huh? by Sir_Eptishous · · Score: 1

      And good luck to Cuba if they want to get out of their contract with Comcast!

      --
      We play the game with the bravery of being out of range
    2. Re:Comcast huh? by jpfulton · · Score: 1

      Perhaps Comcast will use their India support staff to start a new Cold War. As one sage said, "sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice."

  4. cool. $6.50/min phone calls for everyone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    From Canada, using Bell Canada, calling Cuba costs about $6.50/min. Who would want to call there at those ass-raping rates?

    Even using Primus, one of the non-incumbent LD providers it's $2.60/min.

    Even through a VOiP provider (voip.ms) it's $0.88/min.

    Ass-rape everywhere.

  5. So now can I get my dental work done in Cuba? by nbauman · · Score: 1

    I can't afford American health care any more.

    1. Re:So now can I get my dental work done in Cuba? by RenderSeven · · Score: 1

      Actually, now that you mention it, health tourism would be a phenomenal growth industry for Cuba. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    2. Re:So now can I get my dental work done in Cuba? by peragrin · · Score: 1

      I was reading a report the other day that texans are regularly traveling to mexico for dental work, as it is 20-25% the cost of going to an american dentist.

      Cuba has good doctors.

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    3. Re:So now can I get my dental work done in Cuba? by KGIII · · Score: 1

      Hmm... That's sort of true. Cuba has fine doctors for what they are. What they lack is some more modern training, imaging equipment, surgical equipment, and things of that nature. They're probably about twenty years behind but fine for being twenty years behind. How do I know? Well, I've done more than watch Moore's documentary (which was a bit misleading). I've actually been to Cuba and you can walk in and visit a health clinic or hospital. It's not like you're banned from walking in to them.

      While I am not a doctor, my daughter is, some I'm a little familiar with the equipment and methods being taught and used in more modern nations so I'm mostly making an educated guess about the 20 year part. It's probably, roughly, around there. They lack modern MRI equipment (I think they have a total of one for the entire population) and the more detailed imaging that can be done with everything from newer x-ray equipment to sonographic equipment. But, as I said, I am not actually a doctor so that year estimate might be a little ahead of where they are or a little behind where they are.

      While I'm here. I should also note that the last time I was there, I was told that I'd have 'net access. I did not. They did have a cafe next to the hotel but the cafe was out of order. They do monitor the 'net and HEAVILY restrict usage. Allowing a Cuban to use my hardware would have, potentially, resulted in my going to jail. That would have been problematic because I'm a US citizen and wasn't supposed to be there, technically. But, at the same time, I've dual citizenship, by grace of heritage, with Canada so I might have been able to get some help from Canada (had I done so). I almost certainly would have had no help from the US State Department.

      It's pretty rough, their computer use, they're limited in what software they can run. As in, if you type an inappropriate word (I do not know which words those might be) then it closes the application and does not save your document for you ahead of time. Everything is monitored and their bandwidth is low enough that they can have humans do the actual monitoring. They were, as I recall, a bit big on using moral reasons for their blocking. They don't really censor the web so very much. They do and, as I understand, they can a great deal more than they do. They just don't bother. Not only do you need special, monitored, computers but you need special permission to access the whole internet. They didn't really have to censor that so much because they had less than average dial-up speeds and no modern software with which to view most of the internet.

      It is at this point that, again, I'd like to point out that allowing a local to use your computer (you can bring it with you and, I guess, use their internet if it's working - with your own hardware) is likely to get you placed in prison and who knows what will happen to the native found using your computer.

      At the same time, it's not like the Cubans are the Hermit Kingdom that is NK. They know their situation and, for the most part, seem to tolerate it. If there's an under-current that's itching to oust the Castro regime then I was entirely unaware of it. They do have an infamous sneakernet where they exchange data on USB keys but that's not at all what many people seem to think it is. They're not plotting to overthrow the government or escape. They want to watch Hispanic soap-operas and read the latest James Patterson book translated into Spanish.

      When I return (and I will) I am to bring not too many, and "not the big ones", USB keys with me. They are to be blank. I am not to even put any media on them - as they may look at them and confiscate them (until I leave) if they have stuff on them - as opposed to take the time to review them for censored material. So, they want "not the big" USB keys and they want them blank. I presume that larger ones will be subjected to greater scrutiny and that they want multiple small ones. They're insanely expensive (generally unavailable for purchase) there so they get them from tourists

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
  6. The Comcast Missile Crisis by Nidi62 · · Score: 3, Funny

    My concern is that if we send Comcast over to Cuba they might see it as a threat or declaration of war and ask Russia to station nukes on Cuba again. And I wouldn't blame them. I think giving them Comcast defeats the whole purpose of trying to thaw relations with them.

    --
    The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
    1. Re:The Comcast Missile Crisis by Sir_Eptishous · · Score: 1

      I think Comcast is more like the Zika Virus; the government of Cuba will warn its citizens against downloading anything for the next two years...

      --
      We play the game with the bravery of being out of range
  7. Re:cool. $6.50/min phone calls for everyone by TWX · · Score: 2

    Uh, I think that's the point of these meetings, to allow for service providers to now establish their own links with Cuba. Competition should dramatically reduce the cost. The nearest large mainland city is Miami, and being able to tie into the United States' network there, as opposed to having to go through Jamaica or Haiti or the Cayman Islands or through rural Mexico should have quite the impact on cost.

    --
    Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
  8. Cuba does not care as they would by indi0144 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Why, because they have Venezuela as a fallback for all its communications and while Venezuela is very close to get in the club of failed countries, they still can provide the little connectivity that Cuba is interested to provide to its citizens, properly filtered and controlled as they want. You would say that is Cubans what run Venezuela now, because I'm certain that the bus driver they have now as president can't fuck so throughly a country like he has done by himself.

    Cubans can take a look at Puerto Rico and say DO NOT WANT and nobody would blame them really. Sometimes is better to don't know better.

    1. Re: Cuba does not care as they would by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Seriously. Cuba should absolutely wait for the next administration, to see if there is a drastic difference in relations, before making agreements that tie economies together.

    2. Re: Cuba does not care as they would by indi0144 · · Score: 1

      You're right and it's an issue of America to always underestimate the agendas of it's "allies" that said, I bet the issues revolves more about the Castro's hubris, he has said it, as long as he's alive the final transition to democracy can't take place he just allowed the prep work to be started when he realized that communism is a mental wank and Cubans deserve (and have the talent) to do better, just not under his watch... what would the history books say!?

  9. Fewer telecom restrictions are just a start by twasserman · · Score: 5, Informative
    I'm glad to see another piece of the ridiculously outdated Cuban trade restrictions disappear; I'm hoping that the rest of the 57-year embargo goes away soon.

    As for the telecom issue, there are two key issues for the Cubans. The first is that there is very limited bandwidth for Internet access. Cuba just doesn't have enough high-sped satellite or undersea connections to allow video streaming and other high-bandwidth uses. Instead, someone will burn DVDs with movies and other content, then share them with others. It's like the old sneaker-net. So ETECSA (or its successor) will have to address the bandwidth issue before Cuba can have better Internet access. The proposal for the cable to Florida seems like a good start.

    The second issue is limited public access to the Internet. If you are at the UCI (Computer science university), it's easy to get on the Internet from their machines, which run Nova, a UCI-developed Linux distro. Home computers with network access are extremely rare, so most people wanting to get onto the Internet must go to an ETECSA-run center and pay for access. The rate is about $2 US/hour, payable only in "hard" currency CUCs, extremely high in a country where average monthly salary is about $25. Overall, the estimate is that about 3% of the Cuban population is on the Internet, mostly through ETESCA's nauta.cu portal.The situation isn't any better with mobile phones, where ETECSA hasn't yet reached 3G speeds and there are no data plans. More info on the ETECSA site (in Spanish).

    1. Re:Fewer telecom restrictions are just a start by Alioth · · Score: 1

      Ouch. Their ADSL for 128k down is three times more expensive than my 50Mbit/s connection at home (which also has additions like static IP) according to the currency conversion at xe.com. Their 8 meg home ADSL costs more monthly than the median monthly household salary in my rich, Western nation - let alone Cuba.

  10. Go with Ericsson by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    they won't sell you compromised hardware and spy on you. If you go with the U.S services and vendors, they will be in control of your network, and have full insight in all your communications.

    1. Re:Go with Ericsson by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nope, you're pretty owned with whatever provider you go with. Just a matter of who is reading your stuff.

  11. Re:Sad news ... Abe Vigoda dead at 94 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Congratulations on being both tasteless, sad, and funny at the same time.

  12. Rewarding governments for oppressing citizens? by acoustix · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Cuba is still a very oppressive place to live. Why are we rewarding that behavior?

    --
    "A plan fiendishly clever in its intricacies"- Homer Simpson
    1. Re:Rewarding governments for oppressing citizens? by onkelonkel · · Score: 0

      Exactly. We should treat them like China.

      --
      None of them can see the clouds; The polished wings don't care.
    2. Re:Rewarding governments for oppressing citizens? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Last time I checked, the US government sanctions were contributing to oppress the Cubans by providing a rationale why things are so shitty over there. Lifting the sanctions puts the ball in Cuba's court, now if they refuse to play is because they are a despotic regime that does not value communication freedoms to their people, not because the US embargo made it virtually impossible, crappy and VERY expensive.

    3. Re:Rewarding governments for oppressing citizens? by Dorianny · · Score: 1

      Cuba is still a very oppressive place to live. Why are we rewarding that behavior?

      While the sanctions were successful in keeping Cuba weak and underdeveloped, with the USSR long gone Communism and Cuba are no longer credible threats. The Cuban regime has been largely successful at squashing decent and there is no credible opposition we could back instead. The continuation of the Collective-punishment in the form of trade sanctions are really nothing more than feel good measures when it comes to easing oppression. Sanctions are not successful at toppling or compelling a repressive regime to improve conditions. Even the economic impact of lifting sanctions is likely to be small considering how unlikely it is for the Cuban government to quickly open up its markets or welcome a large number foreign investments

  13. Re:Sad news ... Abe Vigoda dead at 94 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Holy crap, it's actually true this time.

    I don't there was ever another celebrity who had as many false death reports as that guy did.

  14. Snops by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So all Cuba's communications would go by undesea cable to a NSA station in Florida?

    Hope the Cubans have good VPN software.