Slashdot Mirror

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

Don't Hate Perky Morning People: It Might Be Their DNA's Fault. (arstechnica.com)

Posted by timothy on from the wouldn't-exactly-say-I've-been-missing-it dept.

New submitter Striek writes: Aggregated genome data from 23andme.com was analyzed and published in Nature magazine, and now further evidence has been added to the belief that being a morning person or a night owl is wired in our DNA. It's not the first time such research has been published, either. So those of us who work late into the night and prefer to rise at noon, much to the chagrin of our partners, can point to our DNA as the reason, not our lazy habits.

110 comments

  1. Man, I hate... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Morning, People, Morning People, Mourning People, and Moaning People.

    1. Re:Man, I hate... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I like it when I make my girlfriend moan!

    2. Re:Man, I hate... by dimko · · Score: 1

      I also like to make your girlfriend moan.

    3. Re:Man, I hate... by David_Hart · · Score: 1

      Puns don't count....

    4. Re:Man, I hate... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And I like to make you moan while you are making his girlfriend moan.

      You know you love it when I thrust my cock up your tight little pasty ass.

    5. Re:Man, I hate... by Noah+Haders · · Score: 1

      I don't see why people hate morning people. morning people make the world go round. I always though people who hated morning people were lazy and felt bad about it, so they lash out at others.

    6. Re:Man, I hate... by jc42 · · Score: 1

      Hereabouts, in the Boston area, they're all called Moaning People, since in the local dialect, "morning", "mourning" and "moaning" are homophones. (And the rumors about where they "pahk theyah cahs" is actually quite wrong, since if you pahk yoah cah theya, the Hahvahd police will tow it away.)

      --
      Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
    7. Re:Man, I hate... by sjames · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Imagine your delight if someone breezed in and dragged you out of bed at 3:00 A.M. every day and expected you to be not just coherent but actually enthusiastic.

    8. Re:Man, I hate... by TWX · · Score: 1

      And you'll hahv ta take the Oanhg line ta Meffa or the Red line ta Somahville to the toah yahd ta gat it...

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    9. Re:Man, I hate... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Better analogy: imagine if you were expected to show up for meetings at 7pm and work until 1am and be not just coherent but actually enthusiastic.

      Morning people are proud of their supposed virtue and work ethic until the clock hits 6pm and they start yawning like a bunch of pussy lightweights. These shits will never know what it's like to hammer out 6 weeks of code in a single night of caffeine fueled mania.

    10. Re:Man, I hate... by Noah+Haders · · Score: 1

      I do it. and its hard, but I do it anyway. I fail to see why I should excuse anybody who whines "waaa it's hard."

    11. Re:Man, I hate... by Hognoxious · · Score: 2

      morning people make the world go round.

      You should wear a top hat and say that in a German accent while dancing with Liza Minelli.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    12. Re:Man, I hate... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's because you're one of those fucking annoying max-zoom-cheeba-monkeys that think the earlier you are awake, the better you are.

      Die in hell, you stupid fucking cubicle dweller.

    13. Re:Man, I hate... by sjames · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So you personally choose to flagellate yourself daily so you figure that gives you the moral right to expect it of everyone else? I choose to stay up late. Why don't you quit being a lazy bum and stay up too?

    14. Re:Man, I hate... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Morning people are the lazy ones who aren't still working at 10pm. Just because they're working earlier in the day doesn't mean in any way that they're doing more work.

    15. Re:Man, I hate... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't see why people hate morning people. morning people make the world go round. I always though people who hated morning people were lazy and felt bad about it, so they lash out at others.

      Unless they have time dilation fields, everybody has the same number of hours.

      Night people just have more hours in which to hide the bodies of perky morning people who get out of hand.

    16. Re:Man, I hate... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For what it's worth, your internal clock does adjust, slowly, to your sleeping habits.

      If you force yourself to get up early, every day (including weekends), for a couple of years strait, you will become a "morning person".

    17. Re:Man, I hate... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Night is for sleeping, not for work. Sleeping at night is not an act of laziness, sleeping past sunrise is laziness.

    18. Re:Man, I hate... by sjames · · Score: 1

      Night is when thoughts run deep and great ideas arise.

    19. Re:Man, I hate... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is true for you because you've made this your lifestyle. This doesn't change that night is for sleeping and day time is for work. You've simply warped the natural order of life with the help of technology.

    20. Re:Man, I hate... by sjames · · Score: 1

      One should wake when one wakes. One should spend at least the 1st half hour wordlessly. Then, only after sitting in the sun for a few minutes should they begin purposeful activities such as preparing for work.

      If you're using an alarm clock and/or lights in the morning to start your day at an unseemly hour, you too are using technology to warp the natural order of life.

  2. You Live In The Wrong Time Zone. by zenlessyank · · Score: 3, Funny

    Move.

    1. Re:You Live In The Wrong Time Zone. by JustinKSU · · Score: 0

      Move.

      I'm pretty sure people start work around 8 or 9 no matter what time zone you are in...

    2. Re: You Live In The Wrong Time Zone. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm pretty sure you'll get the joke after you think about it for a while.

    3. Re:You Live In The Wrong Time Zone. by bughunter · · Score: 1

      Many aerospace and other companies with East and West coast offices start their West coast shifts at 7:00 or 7:30 am so that the workers are working at approximately the same time.

      I worked for Hamilton Sundstrand for 15 years and in CA we worked 9/80 schedules, 7:00 am to 4:30 pm.

      --
      I can see the fnords!
    4. Re:You Live In The Wrong Time Zone. by Solandri · · Score: 1

      Changing time zones is only a temporary fix. My body's internal clock seems to be set for a 25 hour day. The early riser's internal clock seems to be set for a 23 hour day. I'm slow to get up but can work well into the night. They get up early, but crash sometimes before it's even dark outside.

    5. Re:You Live In The Wrong Time Zone. by diemartin · · Score: 1

      Oh that explains it. Maybe he woke up too late for the morning whoosh of aircraft.

    6. Re:You Live In The Wrong Time Zone. by zenlessyank · · Score: 1

      Confusing a flaky emotional foundation with early or late rising is an epic fail.

  3. bad logic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    If someone's DNA is what makes them bad, then that is absolutely a reason why they are unsalvageable and should be killed immediately.

    1. Re:bad logic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While we routinely reject bad apples when we make an apple pie, rejecting genetically bad people isn't right because humans have free will that they can use to mitigate their genetic flaws.

    2. Re:bad logic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's nonsense. Humans don't have free will. Only iron filings have free will.
      (note: I have presented as much evidence as you and am therefore at least equally correct.)

    3. Re:bad logic by rmandevi · · Score: 2

      I misread your post; I thought that you had said "litigate" rather than "mitigate". Somehow, that works too.

      --
      People who live in glass houses shouldn't walk and text.
    4. Re: bad logic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That works only if you sterilized them to prevent their broken genes from spreading. That is what we should be doing with autistic and bipolar people anyway

    5. Re:bad logic by TylerJWhit · · Score: 0

      You were predestined to believe that we do not have freewill. I was predestined to believe otherwise.

    6. Re: bad logic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Autistic & bipolar people are the reason at least half of the scientific breakthroughs & disruptive inventions since the dawn of human civilization exist at all. Entrepreneur-inventors in particular almost *have* to be bipolar (or at least grossly underestimate difficulty) to launch a revolutionary new product despite being statistically almost guaranteed to fail.

      Seriously. The human race achieved approximately jack shit during its first million years or so. Neanderthals were creative and resourceful, but couldn't get the hang of sharing knowledge, so their brilliance was generally unrewarded and died with them. Humans from Africa eventually stumbled across Neanderthals, decided that blond & ginger women were hot, made babies, and their kids literally inherited the earth (eventually replacing both their Neanderthal and their "human 1.0" ancestors everywhere besides the most remote parts of sub-Saharan Africa (their hybrid DNA was so successful, today even most Africans have it, too)

    7. Re:bad logic by Falos · · Score: 1

      >If someone's DNA is what makes them bad
      So is this about the article's two pools? If so you forgot to actually say which one is "bad".

      If so, it would also probably be good to substantiate the choice a little so people don't think you're a ranting dumbass. Objectively, at that point. Which means I just let this point (a eugenics demand) fly as "arguably valid opinion".

    8. Re:bad logic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It doesn't matter which pool is "bad."
      I don't give a fuck who's a morning person and who's an evening person.

      What matters is that the headline is fucking stupid, because "it's my DNA's fault" is never a valid reason not to hate someone.

      Is someone is a mass-murdering evil asshole, you don't let them off the hook because they have the mass-murdering evil asshole gene. No. You recognize that they are a danger precisely because of that gene. And then you kill or imprison them, to dispose of the dangerous gene.

    9. Re: bad logic by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Autistic & bipolar people are the reason at least half of the scientific breakthroughs & disruptive inventions since the dawn of human civilization exist at all.

      The trouble is, we don't know which half.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    10. Re:bad logic by infolation · · Score: 1

      Hopefully it's a recessive gene and 'morning people' will just die out eventually.

  4. Age might be a factor too... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When I was young I was a morning person. Took 7a classes my whole college career. No that I'm in my 50s I'll be luck to be up by 9a...

    1. Re:Age might be a factor too... by alvinrod · · Score: 4, Funny

      My grandfather once told me that every morning at 6 he would have a healthy bowel movement. The only problem was he usually didn't wake up until 7.

  5. I don't hate morning people. by MrKrillls · · Score: 3, Funny

    I hate their DNA.

    --
    Don't step on the baby.
    1. Re:I don't hate morning people. by TWX · · Score: 3, Funny

      I hate their DNA.

      I have a general rule, that I do not judge people on things like ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation, and other things that they are born-with and are beyond their control.

      In this case I would have to make an exception.

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
  6. backwards premise by ThorGod · · Score: 4, Informative

    In my experience it's the "morning people" that are judgey against non-morning people. It seems like it should be morning people that shouldn't hold their genes as "superior"

    --
    PS: I don't reply to ACs.
    1. Re:backwards premise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Agreed. I'll stop hating them when they stop requiring everything to be done in the morning and when working an extra 3 hours is considered better than coming in 20 minutes earlier and goofing off for 40 minutes.

    2. Re: backwards premise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Seriously. If you are the first person through the door every morning, that's great for you. Please don't complain about how other people choose to structure their day. Punctuality is a small part of work.

    3. Re:backwards premise by brewthatistrue · · Score: 1

      "Sounds like someone has a case of the Mondays."

      http://big.assets.huffingtonpo...

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

      I think the hate flows both ways.

    4. Re:backwards premise by Noah+Haders · · Score: 1

      I don't think anybody is a morning person. I think a lot of people drag themselves out of bed because they have shizz to do. the difference between them and others is that others don't drag themselves out of bed.

    5. Re:backwards premise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Morning Person Master Race!

    6. Re:backwards premise by hene · · Score: 1

      I don't think anybody is a morning person. I think a lot of people drag themselves out of bed because they have shizz to do. the difference between them and others is that others don't drag themselves out of bed.

      Cleaning my living habits made me a morning person. Not bragging, just saying. I just naturally started waking up earlier and going to bed earlier too. I do not feel superior to others. Stupidity, on other hand, appear in both groups. We all have equal amount of hours in day, who cares in which order they get used.

    7. Re:backwards premise by Big+Hairy+Ian · · Score: 1

      I don't have a problem with morning people as long as my Wood Chipper is working and they form an orderly queue

      --

      Build a Man a Fire, and He'll Be Warm for a Day. Set a Man on Fire, and He'll Be Warm for the Rest of His Life.

    8. Re:backwards premise by Noah+Haders · · Score: 1

      What does that mean, cleaning my living habits. I want to learn more!

    9. Re:backwards premise by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      What does that mean, cleaning my living habits. I want to learn more!

      Not regularly drinking yourself into a stupor until you pass out at four am and wake up with a traffic cone on your head in a pool of your own urine, I imagine.

      Morning people are generally boring bastards. They actually choose to start meetings at ridiculous times like 8am, and ruin things for the rest of us.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    10. Re:backwards premise by hene · · Score: 1
      Well, I sometimes tend to over do things and it is hard to say what affects the most. I don't drink or smoke at all (I did before) and I eat super healthy now. I try to follow all the health regulations and make sure I get all the micronutrients. I guess pushing yourself to the limits might be the biggest thing, mentally and physically. The extreme stress combined with adequate rest and meditation. It has been something like ten years since I started to clean my act, little by little it started to happen.

      Morning people are generally boring bastards.

      Yes we are! Before I was interesting but the world felt boring, now I'm boring but the world feels interesting.

    11. Re:backwards premise by Noah+Haders · · Score: 1

      Morning people are generally boring bastards.

      Yes we are! Before I was interesting but the world felt boring, now I'm boring but the world feels interesting.

      Thank you for this, it is actually quite inspirational.

    12. Re:backwards premise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've friends who wake up at 4 or 5 in the morning and have to spend time on their hobbies until it's time to go to work. But they also just fall a sleep in front of their television at prime time.

        I on the other hand have to drag myself out of bed every single morning at 6:30 in the morning so I'm at work before 8:00 (it's mandatory to sit at your desk before the clock hits 8). I hate it when I'm active at night. I hate it when I can't sleep when I need 7-8 hours of sleep every night. I hate it when I only sleep 1-3 hours every night because I can't catch sleep before 5 in the morning (my 'natural' clock).

      In my country people expect you to be morning people. People who aren't morning people are lazy. The morning people just fall a sleep at 9-10 in the evening and can't even imagine that there is a whole army of night people who perform best at the time they fall a sleep.
       
      I often can't perform well in the morning. I'm not productive because my body says I should be sleeping. I have to suppress my yawns, have to drink caffeine, try to fake productivity etc and I make the big mistake to make up for my loss of productivity by doing my work at night. I wish people would just accept I'm a night person, so I can just be productive at night and get my well needed rest in the morning. But nope. I've to drag myself from burn out to burn out, never able to try to build myself a nice career within one company.
       
        I've always wondered if this work schedule of starting as early as possible is the same all over the world, or whether there are societies where they understand there are night people or where night people are even the norm.

  7. We don't hate them because they are perky.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Us non-morning people don't hate morning people because they are perky. We hate them because they assume that everybody else should be a morning person too. Every asshole that suggests things like a 7:30am meeting is just rubbing their early-rising do-gooderness instead the late-riser's faces. They know you feel like a slacker if you suggest to your boss that it's too early for you. In offices with set-your-own-schedule, morning people also like to point out people who "show up late". "Geez, Bob, it's past 10. You're just coming in?!".... Despite the fact you stay at work until 9pm, the early risers who left at 5pm never notice or give credit to the people who stay late. To them they act like the world ceases at 5 in the afternoon until they come in again at 7am. I have so many minor knit-picks over this that bile is starting to form in my throat. I think I'll end.

    1. Re: We don't hate them because they are perky.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You consider 7:30 early? I am a night owl but by no means 7:30 is a morning person time. Morning person time is having a meeting at 5:30 or 6:00 as I used to have for many years. I just practiced biphasic sleep with a 150 minute lunch break

    2. Re:We don't hate them because they are perky.... by Guybrush_T · · Score: 2

      The opposite is true also. Some arrive at 9am and ask those who leave at 5pm "did you take your PM off ?". Depends on the company, depends on the country, depends on the persons.

    3. Re:We don't hate them because they are perky.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Despite the fact you stay at work until 9pm, the early risers who left at 5pm never notice or give credit to the people who stay late.

      I'm one of those people who comes in at 7am and leave around 5pm. But I'm totally willing to give the benefit of the doubt to people who stay later than me. However, I've also had co-workers who were lucky to make it into work before noon but who also usually left before I did. And then there are the times when I stay late myself and am surprised to see many of the people who I assumed would work very late (since they roll into work around 11am) actually leaving around 6pm - only an hour after I leave - despite the fact that I come in four hours earlier.

      But there have been times in my own life when I was burned out, or on a dead-end project, where I was coming in late and leaving early. So, generally, when I see that happening with my co-workers, I just hope that they can soon find themselves in a better work situation - where they believe in what they're doing and are happy to do a full days work.

      To them they act like the world ceases at 5 in the afternoon until they come in again at 7am. I have so many minor knit-picks over this that bile is starting to form in my throat. I think I'll end.

      And the reason I work the early shift, so to speak, isn't because I'm trying to prove I'm better. It's that otherwise I go the whole week without seeing my daughter. My daughter has to be in bed by 7:30pm if she's going to get to school on time and not end up with a sleep deficit by the end of the week. It takes me about an hour to get home. So if I leave work at 5pm then I can get home by 6pm, take a quick shower and have a quick bite of supper and then be available to hang out with my daughter from about 6:30pm to 7:30pm.

      Back when I was single I worked a very different schedule. But I don't want my daughter to grow up only seeing her father on weekends. So now I do what I have to do and work the early shift.

    4. Re:We don't hate them because they are perky.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Anyone been fired for being Cronicly early?

      I was here till one in the morning.
      Sorry that is no excuse.

    5. Re:We don't hate them because they are perky.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pretty much this. I've resigned myself to the fact almost all jobs start far too early for my liking. Though, I've realized a great benefit: The company literally has chosen the least productive time of mine possible. That means when I get home I'm energized and ready to enjoy working on stuff for me.

      Frankly, in the end, I'm rather happy about that. I like having the best of my time to myself. I'd hate to be a morning person. Too bad for companies hiring me. So very hard to tell during an interview that your desired hours are unproductive hours!

    6. Re:We don't hate them because they are perky.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      However, I've also had co-workers who were lucky to make it into work before noon but who also usually left before I did. And then there are the times when I stay late myself and am surprised to see many of the people who I assumed would work very late (since they roll into work around 11am) actually leaving around 6pm

      Meh. I get to work at 11, take an hour for lunch and leave before 5, and I still get more work done than any of my colleagues and get paid twice as much (to compensate me for working harder, actually). Putting in the hours doesn't mean you're putting in the effort; I've seen people, not in this job, thankfully, that will put in 10-12 hours, and rave about how hard they've been working, but it doesn't show in their output. And those same people tend to be the ones who get pissy when I get promotions and pay rises, and they don't.

      Life is unfair if you're crap at what you do, I guess.

    7. Re:We don't hate them because they are perky.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly, it's their self-righteous attitude that we hate about them.

    8. Re:We don't hate them because they are perky.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Us non-morning people don't hate morning people because they are perky. We hate them because they assume that everybody else should be a morning person too. Every asshole that suggests things like a 7:30am meeting is just rubbing their early-rising do-gooderness instead the late-riser's faces. They know you feel like a slacker if you suggest to your boss that it's too early for you. In offices with set-your-own-schedule, morning people also like to point out people who "show up late". "Geez, Bob, it's past 10. You're just coming in?!".... Despite the fact you stay at work until 9pm, the early risers who left at 5pm never notice or give credit to the people who stay late. To them they act like the world ceases at 5 in the afternoon until they come in again at 7am. I have so many minor knit-picks over this that bile is starting to form in my throat. I think I'll end.

      I have had problems at work like that, and I function better at night, always have. It is definitely a "Diversity issue" but good luck getting people who badmouth people who have trouble with the morning schedule, to recognize this.

      There is more science on this, interestingly some people have the circadian rhythms that cause them to be morning people and others tend to be night owls and the environmental regulator is the type of light that they get during the day (and this can be thrown off by devices and screens giving you too much blue light later in the day, but this suggests that it affects people who are members of different phenotypes in complimentary ways.)

      How I have learned to deal with this is related to exercise and weight loss experiments I have done. One way to lose weight is to increase caloric expenditure through controlled exposure to cold temperatures (like taking cold showers.. or ice baths , going swimming or living in northern latitudes where the environment is colder on average.) One of the quirks of being adapted to colder temperatures is your circadian rhythm becomes regulated less by light and more by temperature so you tend to go into sleep mode when you get warmer and tend to wake up when you are colder.. so it all starts with a nice cold shower, which you can probably guess wakes one up rather strongly. Instant morning (or any time you want to wake up) person.. regardless of genetics. This requires however that you control the temperature in your environment rather tightly.. and this does tend to bother people who are not on the same page with the temperature thing (and some people are not well adapted to cold temperatures... and these people tend to be those who are more prone to metabolic syndrome and type 2 diabetes.. obesity.. etc.. )

    9. Re: We don't hate them because they are perky.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Actually people that come in at 9 SHOULD leave at 5. If you come in at 5 you should leave at 1. Americans and their belief that being on facebook or whatever else they call "working" while being at the office for 50 out of the 60 hours they "work" is actually a good thing. I'll never get it.

    10. Re: We don't hate them because they are perky.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thank you thank you thank you! A voice of reason in the American work world. If you come in at 7 and leave at 5 then either somethibg is wrong with you or with your workplace. Good to see that there are sane people out there that value efficiency over hours spent at the office.

    11. Re:We don't hate them because they are perky.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Cronicly"?? What is that word supposed to mean? Why is it capitalized? I don't get it.

    12. Re:We don't hate them because they are perky.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm one of those people who comes in at 7am and leave around 5pm. But I'm totally willing to give the benefit of the doubt to people who stay later than me. However, I've also had co-workers who were lucky to make it into work before noon but who also usually left before I did. And then there are the times when I stay late myself and am surprised to see many of the people who I assumed would work very late (since they roll into work around 11am) actually leaving around 6pm - only an hour after I leave - despite the fact that I come in four hours earlier.

      Maybe your co-workers don't like you and are trying to avoid you.

    13. Re: We don't hate them because they are perky.... by TWX · · Score: 1

      It really depends on where you live. The weather where I live is gorgeous probably 280 days a year, and when it's not gorgeous it's because it's too hot, not because of snow or other things that make the roads impassable. Here, it's common to work 7:00-3:30 in an office job, and starting as late as 9:00am is uncommon for office work. Trades often will start at 6:00am during the summer because of the heat.

      Up north, with roads to clear, the northerly latitude leading to a later sunrise, and other problems it seems that a later start time makes more sense.

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    14. Re:We don't hate them because they are perky.... by TWX · · Score: 1

      I've seen people reprimanded for not working the shift that they are expected to work, including a couple of people that were early and expected to leave early. Coverage was expected and not working the assigned shift messed with that.

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    15. Re:We don't hate them because they are perky.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've seen a lot of the opposite of course. Folks coming in two hours after me but somehow managing to complete the same hours of work and leave 30 minutes after me. Interesting stuff. You do the hours you are paid for I don't care if you come in at 6:00am or noon. I hate people coming in late and deciding that they still want to be home by 4.

      Oh and I love it when my known end time is 3:30 and I get chronically booked for 4 and 5 pm meetings...they get the decline.

      I don't hate morning people and I don't hate "night owls" I hate lazy people that leave their share of the work to conscientious people who try to give their employer what they are paid for.

    16. Re:We don't hate them because they are perky.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Life is unfair if you're crap at what you do, I guess.

      Yes, but not in the way that you imply.

      Either you're in a job where actual productivity is difficult to measure (e.g. management) - and your hourly pay rate mostly reflects your ability to kiss up to the right people.

      Or you're a very big fish in a very small pond. That is, you must either have vastly more education and experience than your co-workers - or your co-workers have a lot of other bad stuff going on in their lives that prevents them from giving their full attention to their job.

      The thing is, though, I will guarantee that there are a lot of other people out there who are just as talented/efficient/hard-working/etc as you are - but who are actually working a full day for every one of your half days. Now, if you're a few years out from retirement then that probably doesn't much matter. But if you're still progressing in your career then that can really hold you back. When it comes time for you to apply for the next job in your career progression, there's going to be a lot of other people with twice as many accomplishments on their resumes.

      I assume you know your own situation. But, personally, whenever I find myself getting tto work later and leaving earlier to the point that I'm eventually only working half days - and rationalizing it with a sense of smug superiority. Well, that's a huge red flag that my career is stagnating and that's it's time to dust off the resume and start looking for greener pastures.

    17. Re:We don't hate them because they are perky.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Meh. I get to work at 11, take an hour for lunch and leave before 5, and I still get more work done than any of my colleagues and get paid twice as much (to compensate me for working harder, actually).

      Something here doesn't add up. If by "colleagues" you mean everyone who works at your company then, yes, a software developer will usually get a much higher hourly wage than the night watchman. But if "colleagues" means other people who have the same job, then it's highly unusual to have that large a pay differential for the same job in the same company.

      And those same people tend to be the ones who get pissy when I get promotions and pay rises, and they don't.

      The fundamental point of the grandparent post was that team members usually know who is slacking off and who isn't - even if some of them work earlier shifts and some of them work later shifts. Usually when one person on a team is truly a superstar then everyone else on the teams know it and is OK with them getting higher pay.

      The fact that your colleagues object to your pays raises suggests that something isn't right at your company..

      Life is unfair if you're crap at what you do, I guess.

      Or if someone has managed to convince the management that they're better than they really are. :)

    18. Re:We don't hate them because they are perky.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I refuse to modify my circadian rhythm to accommodate these fucks. I would rather be homeless than torture myself with an alarm clock so they can compete with me on their home field advantage. Fuck morning people.

    19. Re:We don't hate them because they are perky.... by bitingduck · · Score: 1

      I have had problems at work like that, and I function better at night, always have. It is definitely a "Diversity issue" but good luck getting people who badmouth people who have trouble with the morning schedule, to recognize this.

      I'm like that, too. I generally can work a full day starting around 9-9:30, leave at a reasonable hour, and then have a sort of down period from 8 to 10 pm. Some time between 10 and 11 I usually have a second wind and work 4-5 more hours of pretty high productivity. Unless someone's been making me come in at 7:30 or 8 for meetings, which kills both my daytime and nighttime productivity. Fortunately, most of what I do has allowed the flexibility to work the hours that work for me.

    20. Re: We don't hate them because they are perky.... by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Morning person time is having a meeting at 5:30 or 6:00

      Not all of us live in the US.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    21. Re:We don't hate them because they are perky.... by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      morning people also like to point out people who "show up late". "Geez, Bob, it's past 10. You're just coming in?!"..

      More like:

      Oh, good AFTERNOON Bob, har har har.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    22. Re:We don't hate them because they are perky.... by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      I've seen people reprimanded for not working the shift that they are expected to work, including a couple of people that were early and expected to leave early. Coverage was expected and not working the assigned shift messed with that.

      Shiftwork is different.

      All the smug morning people here should try doing a job where they have to work night shifts.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    23. Re:We don't hate them because they are perky.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A coworker started mocking me for coming in at 10, instead of his 7.
      I asked: "What are you doing at 7:00 tonight?"
      "Uhh...watching TV or something. I dunno...probably."
      "Good. I'll think of you when I'm still here at work. Fuck off."

    24. Re: We don't hate them because they are perky.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not only Americans. I also have to be in the office between set hours. Everyone in my country/region has to work the same schedule and that results in monster traffic jams every single morning and every single evening. I drive 1,5 hour on 28 km. I can do it under one hour on my bike, but my employer doesn't want to provide a place where I can take a shower. So the 30-35 km/h average speed is out of the question, so back to the car it is, in the monster traffic jam. It is really depressing, and the solution could be so easy. Just let people choose when to start. Just ask people to start at different hours. Just provide the facilities to wash those who want to commute by bike. Encourage people to be more sportive. Really, I'm now sitting 13-15 hours a day. 10-11 hours at my desk, 3-4 in my car. It could have been 10-11 hours at my desk and about 2 hours on my bike, where the 2 hours on my bike is an anti stress therapy. I would start my job with a clear mind, and I would come home with a clear mind...

    25. Re:We don't hate them because they are perky.... by beastofburdon · · Score: 1

      I would take a large amount of sadistic glee in watching them crash and burn.

  8. Ok, fine. by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 3, Funny

    If it's so genetic, I'll agree to drop the hatred and adopt an attitude of dispassionate eugenics. Happy now, Mr. Sunshine?

    1. Re:Ok, fine. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Absolutely! You do understand that the morning folks will have a two hour preemptive strike right? ;)

    2. Re:Ok, fine. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...and the late folk will have hours to attack while the the morning folks have passed out.

    3. Re:Ok, fine. by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      Depends on when you start the scenario: it's actually a very morning-person assumption that the day will begin when you wake up; rather than everything being over by the time yesterday's nigh owls have decided to call it a day and go to sleep.

  9. Don't worry about hating people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's in ALL our DNA

  10. Alternative mating strategies by Bruce66423 · · Score: 2

    Perhaps the answer is that people bifurcate because this allows each a better mating strategy; the existence of both group increases the possibilities for non-monogamous behavior, increasing the prospects of otherwise infertile couples of having children...

    1. Re:Alternative mating strategies by Quirkz · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Or distributing childcare duties. Or splitting the night watch into a natural late shift and early shift.

      --
      The Quirkz Handbook of Self-Improvement for People Who Are Already Pretty Okay
  11. got it by superwiz · · Score: 2

    Don't hate em. Hate their DNA. And they are full of it.

    --
    Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
  12. Our DNA must degrade over time then by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    The argument that DNA makes morning people doesn't work for me. When I was younger I was a morning person - I'd routinely be out of bed before 5am and down at the field flying gliders as the sun came up, having a couple of hours' worth of peace and joy before dragging myself in to the slavery that is work. A couple of decades later and I'm flat out dragging myself out of bed before 7am on a week day or 9am on week ends. Maybe that's more a measure of how much work sucks the life out of you.

    1. Re:Our DNA must degrade over time then by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, it's more a measure of how much life sucks the life out of you.

    2. Re:Our DNA must degrade over time then by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm right there with you. My parents got me an alarm clock when I was a kid to keep me from flying out of bed at 5 am every day. You couldn't pay me to stay in bed past 7. Fast forward to work life with three kids and I roll out of bed at 4:45 am work days but it is under duress and the consequence of a long commute for a 7 am start. Damn it I miss being that energetic and happy at 5 am...

  13. There are two kinds of people in the world... by sconeu · · Score: 4, Funny

    There are two kinds of people in the world...

    Those who are bright and cheerful in the morning,
    And those who want to take a wrench and beat the shit out of the first kind.*

    *proud member of the second category

    --
    General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    1. Re:There are two kinds of people in the world... by al0ha · · Score: 1

      Beat the sh*t out of me? In the words of Harry Calahan , "Go ahead, make my day."

      Proud member of a tolerant society...

      --
      Did you ever wake up in the morning, with a Zombie Woof behind your eyes? -- FZ
  14. Clock time is relative by PPH · · Score: 1

    You don't roll out of bed at 10 am or noon. You do so at some time relative to external inputs such as light and temperature which affect your circadian rhythm. Temperature and to a certain degree light is under your control. Just like the time on your alarm clock. So set it. If you can't function until sunrise plus 5 hours, then get a light timer to turn on at 3 AM. Do whatever it takes to get up to speed for the 9 AM meeting. Even if that means going to bed at 7 or 8 PM.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
    1. Re:Clock time is relative by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >The other guy needs to do whatever it takes, not me
      k.

    2. Re:Clock time is relative by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The other guy needs to do whatever it takes, not me

      Because the whole world revolves around you.

    3. Re:Clock time is relative by Striek · · Score: 1

      get a light timer to turn on at 3 AM.

      Works great if you sleep alone. Not so much if your s/o is an early riser.

      --
      "Government is like fire; a handy servant, but a dangerous master." -- George Washington
  15. More free time DNA by allcoolnameswheretak · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I don't know if I'm a morning person or not. What I do know is that I go to sleep late because I want more me-time.

  16. I suppose by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What next? I suppose being black is down to DNA, are we not allowed to hate niggers now?

  17. I think the influence is mild by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 3, Interesting
    I have always enjoyed sleeping in late and had trouble staying awake in the 8am classes. But finished college and had trouble showing up for work at 8 am. When the daughter came along, I had to get up early so that I could return early and take care of her. That sort of set the habit and now I am up at 5am weekdays even when I stay up watch the election debate till 11:30. And can't stay in bed after 7 on weekends.

    I don't think I got it through DNA. Mainly circumstances and habit. If at all there was influence from DNA it is quite mild.

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    1. Re:I think the influence is mild by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So let me guess, you feel like your live is running away .. if you stay in bed?

      Have to add, I wish I was more like you, cause I'm on the other side of the norm of 8 hours sleep, I need 9 to function.
      Meaning, I got a lot less "free" time, then you have. So enjoy.

    2. Re:I think the influence is mild by Gilgaron · · Score: 2

      Kids are certainly a system shock as far as sleep goes... I have either learned how to let part of my brain sleep while I'm otherwise lucid enough to function minimally intensive tasks or it is just what happens in a sleep deprived state. It makes my head tingle and I don't feel like I missed as much sleep as I did the next morning.

  18. EXACTLY!!! by PortHaven · · Score: 1

    ^^^ THIS

  19. Made up all the rules by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Only a small fraction of people seem to be morning people. The biggest problem seems to be that they woke up before the rest of us and made up all the rules.

    I've also never been able to figure out why East coast people don't use the time difference as an excuse to start work later. Being on the West coast, dealing with East coast business hours is frustrating, especially as someone who is not a morning person. They should just adopt West Coast time and get some extra sleep.

    1. Re:Made up all the rules by PPH · · Score: 1

      why East coast people don't use the time difference as an excuse to start work later.

      Particularly with a 4 AM last call time. But then ....

      dealing with East coast business hours is frustrating,

      In my experience, most highly successful people are morning people. And not bar flies. So 4 AM closing times and late night entertainment don't enter into their plans.

      get some extra sleep.

      Umm, nope. People need a certain amount of sleep. Some need more, some need less. Where they put that ideal amount on the clock is a different issue. Getting up later would mean going to bed later. Needing more sleep is a sign that a person isn't managing their bed time/wake up time properly. And that might lead to symptoms very similar to being a 'late riser'.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
  20. Getting it backward by nomentanus · · Score: 1

    Correlation isn't causation, and what we now know about our biological clock makes the interpretation stated in the article ridiculous. Similar genetic discoveries often involve dopamine - anything that is more likely to key you to stay up, abuse artificial light and blow your diurnal hormone cycle. But in a generation or two we'll be smart enough to turn out the lights roughly when the sun goes down, experience much better health, and it will turn out that nobody was really a night owl (under even semi-natural conditions) after all. This determinative view of genetics belongs back in nineteen fifties. Genetics are the substrate upon which the environment acts.

  21. You don't have to... by whitroth · · Score: 1

    ...live with my wife when she wakes up PERKY and CONVERSATIONAL at 06:00....

                    mark

  22. Re:More free time DNA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I wanted more me time so I changed my 2am-8am sleep time into a 8pm-3am sleeptime.