K-12 CS Framework Draft: Kids Taught To 'Protect Original Ideas' In Early Grades

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K-12 CS Framework Draft: Kids Taught To 'Protect Original Ideas' In Early Grades

Posted by timothy on Friday February 5, 2016 @01:42AM from the core-tenet dept.

theodp writes: Remember that Code.org and ACM-bankrolled K-12 Computer Science Education Framework that Microsoft, Google, Apple, and others were working on? Well, a draft of the framework was made available for review on Feb. 3rd, coincidentally just 3 business days after U.S. President Barack Obama and Microsoft President Brad Smith teamed up to announce the $4+ billion Computer Science for All initiative for the nation's K-12 students. "Computationally literate citizens have the responsibility to learn about, recognize, and address the personal, ethical, social, economic, and cultural contexts in which they operate," explains the section on Fostering an Inclusive Computing Culture, one of seven listed 'Core K-12 CS Practices'. "Participating in an inclusive computing culture encompasses the following: building and collaborating with diverse computational teams, involving diverse users in the design process, considering the implication of design choices on the widest set of end users, accounting for the safety and security of diverse end users, and fostering inclusive identities of computer scientists." Hey, do as they say, not as they do! Also included in the 10-page draft (pdf) is a section on Law and Ethics, which begins: "In early grades, students differentiate between responsible and irresponsible computing behaviors. Students learn that responsible behaviors can help individuals while irresponsible behaviors can hurt individuals. They examine legal and ethical considerations for obtaining and sharing information and apply those behaviors to protect original ideas."

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I feel so conflicted... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-05 01:49 · Score: 0

On the one hand, this is a baiting headline regarding a framework that is mostly about educational standards for CS.
On the other hand, I don't really think there *are* very many (if any at all) original ideas in computer science worthy of protection.
1. Re:I feel so conflicted... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-05 02:04 · Score: 0
  
  I think the headline is trying to pit microsoft, apple, and google against OSS...
2. Re:I feel so conflicted... by asdfman2000 · 2016-02-05 02:06 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  It sounds like this is more of framework that is mostly about educational standards for teaching right-think in CS. There is a horrific amount of PC buzzwords in there,when the real focus of education should be teaching students the skills they need.
  
  This crazy overreach with indoctrination in schools is unsettling. Apart from the pledge of allegiance, it was pretty subtle and frowned upon when I was in school. I think most teachers actually cared about teaching and kept the crazies who wanted to use the position to indoctrinate in check.
  Now it's the other way around.
3. Re:I feel so conflicted... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-05 02:06 · Score: 1
  
  You might want to consider the inevitable "mission creep." In the long run, it is further conditioning a newer generation to unquestioningly accept demands bestowed onto them by Powers that Be(tm).
  Sure, you could argue that the Law and Ethics section will be full of balanced (snort) and logical (snort) approach that will outline current issues with patents (snort) and other forms of IP protection (suuure) as much as underline the need for some form of them and explain why that need is beneficial to society as a whole... but I wouldn't hold my breath seeing where it's coming from. In fact, I wouldn't hold my breath for that even if the guidelines were genuinely prepared by just the Department of Education, much less multinationals with somewhat less magnanimous interests.
4. Re:I feel so conflicted... by jellomizer · 2016-02-05 02:23 · Score: 1
  
  They are not too many original ideas anywhere.
  However part of accademia is the ability to site ideas that you have collected. However using a collection of preused ideas usually creates something that is unique and original.
  
  --
  If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
5. Re:I feel so conflicted... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-05 02:27 · Score: 1
  
  Intellectual property isn't physical property, but treating it like it shouldn't have any intrinsic value at all isn't right either. Creators should have the right to pursue (or revoke) monetization of their efforts. We are at the place where the children of the people who took IP from the corporations (through Napster et al) as protest for market collusion are starting to grow up. It would be very easy for these kids, just now starting school, as a generation to grow up and think that creative endeavors have no value and aren't worthy of compensation at all. Copyrights, patents, and trademarks for all the ways they've been manipulated into terrible things, still represent protections that are valuable to society.
6. Re:I feel so conflicted... by jenningsthecat · 2016-02-05 02:42 · Score: 1
  
  Where are my mod points when I need them! I set out to mention indoctrination, and there you've already gone and done it for me.
  I admire your sangfroid - you find the indoctrination 'unsettling', whereas I find it downright disturbing and more than a little bit scary.
  Obligatory John Taylor Gatto quote: "...school has become the replacement for church, and like church it requires that its teachings must be taken on faith".
  
  --
  'The Economy' is a giant Ponzi scheme whose most pitiable suckers are the youngest among us and the yet-unborn.
7. Re:I feel so conflicted... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-05 03:02 · Score: 0
  
  Obituary. Theodp, who led the fight against primary school computer science education in the US ("the K-12 CS educational framework sponsored by Code.org and FWD.us" as he frequently put it) by submitting dozens of stories to the Slashdot blog over many years. He seemed particularly incensed by the involvement of Facebook founder Mark Zuckerberg, and of the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. Died of apparent cardiac arrest in front of his laptop computer at Starbucks.
  "Theodp" was the deceased's registered handle on Slashdot. Investigators are still trying to discover his real name.
8. Re:I feel so conflicted... by CrimsonAvenger · 2016-02-05 03:03 · Score: 0
  
  There. Not they.
  Academia. Not accademia.
  Cite. Not site.
  Oh, and what "usually" happens when you you use a collection of preused ideas is that you create something that is unoriginal, at best. Though I must admit that your spelling is original. Perhaps that's what you were talking about?
  
  --
  
  "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
9. Re:I feel so conflicted... by bws111 · 2016-02-05 03:04 · Score: 1
  
  If there are no 'original ideas' (what an idiotic concept) then there is no point in teaching anyone CS since everything has already been done. And if that is not the case, then why are the new things not worthy of protection? Just because someone else 'could have' done it, but couldn't be bothered to?
10. Re:I feel so conflicted... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-05 03:07 · Score: 0
  
  You start by saying "Intellectual property isn't physical property, but treating it like it shouldn't have any intrinsic value at all isn't right either", which is completely true, but then you say "Creators should have the right to pursue (or revoke) monetization of their efforts". Are they monetizing ideas, like thoughts? Because if you put it to paper they're not just ideas with no physical properties anymore. That could be drafts in napkins, patents, copyrightable materials, but essentially you just turned your idea, thoughts in your head, into something that potentially has as much of physical property as building a prototype could.
  I've always thought the term Intellectual Property is really horrible. It adds nothing, describes things for which there were already protections in place while jumbling them all under one umbrella term, applicability be damned, and muddles the discussion by focusing on a tiny bit of that jumbled mess at a time to push further onerous "protections" to a bunch of stuff that didn't need them, or can't even fit them very well.
11. Re:I feel so conflicted... by BarbaraHudson · 2016-02-05 03:25 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  Do you think they could have mentioned "diversity" a few more times? After all, $4 billion dollars should be able to buy a lot more content-free baffle-gab.
  $4 billion of subsidies for a "Don't copy that floppy!" lesson plan ...
  First they came for the tape decks, but I didn't say anything because I had a cassette recorder.
  Then they came for the cassette recorders, but I didn't say anything because I had already switched to a vcr.
  Then they came for the vcr recorders, but I didn't say anything because I had already switched to a dvd.
  Then they came for the dvd recorders, but I didn't say anything because I had already switched to flash storage.
  Then they came for the flash storage, but I didn't say anything because there was just nothing worth recording any more.
  This is what happens when you over-play your hand.
  
  --
  "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
12. Re:I feel so conflicted... by asdfman2000 · 2016-02-05 03:26 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  I admire your sangfroid - you find the indoctrination 'unsettling', whereas I find it downright disturbing and more than a little bit scary.
  Too much passion in a statement tends to alienate people who might otherwise be receptive; however, I do find the situation deeply disturbing.
  What's more unsettling is how there are active campaigns to ban homeschooling and limit access to private schools, even though outcomes for both are almost always better than public schools. Couple that with the ideological takeover of education and it makes you fear for the future.
13. Re:I feel so conflicted... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-05 03:37 · Score: 0
  
  However part of accademia is the ability to site ideas that you have collected. However using a collection of preused ideas usually creates something that is unique and original.
  Especially those you may have picked up from the series of tubes.
14. Re:I feel so conflicted... by asdfman2000 · 2016-02-05 03:39 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  I know this will get me labeled as a right-wing crazy (even though I'm not, I'm equally disgusted with the political-right), but this is such a perfect microcosm of what the Democratic Party actually pushes vs what they say they want to accomplish:
  1. Push diversity in a field that is already pretty diverse (unless you exclude Asians, which these people always do).
  2. Switch the focus from technical knowledge to social grouping (they tried this in Math in the 90's with obviously poor results).
  3. Don't pirate movies or music! Those are our biggest campaign donors^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H ethical concerns!
15. Re: I feel so conflicted... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-05 03:47 · Score: 0
  
  Well, what can we do? It's pretty much a done deal at this point and this is the world those kids will be living in. I think that as disheartening as it may sound, it's in their best interest to learn how to exist in the only reality that there is instead of filling their heads with naive ideals that will be very dangerous to cling to in the years to come. I'm glad I'm not a father, it would break my heart to have to tell my child that you should never question authority and must always remember to stay in your place.
16. Re:I feel so conflicted... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-05 04:10 · Score: 0
  
  I agree with you except for this small nit-pick. Ideas have no intrinsic value. However, they may have some applied value. A penny for your thoughts, isn't really an exchange of cash for thoughts. What I am buying is your oratory (or whatever medium of communication you choose).
17. Re:I feel so conflicted... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-05 04:21 · Score: 1
  
  Except, as you have admitted, the creators' entitlement complex has expanded far beyond what is beneficial to society. Today, we have creators who decide that they don't like a particular use of their work and use computers, the net, and extra judicial methods to ban, and prevent that use. Even if that use is not illegal, or even beneficial to society. (Format shifting, derivative works, etc.) These creators also desperately try at each opportunity, to expand what is considered illegal use. Along with increasingly high penalties for violations, and ever more secret negotiations behind closed doors to get what they want. Many of these creators would believe that they have the "right" to charge society indefinitely for their contributions, and that their descendants should be the beneficiaries. (Despite the fact that such a world would go bankrupt with our current social-economic policies.)
  So yes, many people are beginning to say: "It has no value." Because the creators have made it so that only the creators benefit, to the determent of society. Some people are also saying: "Let's get rid of copyright completely." Because they see that these issues are inherent in the system. The current favorite economic policies reward greed, and copyright has been warped (read: corrupted) into being all about financial compensation. So long as the perverse incentive for greed exists in the economic systems of the world, copyright is a prime target for abuse. That's why those people say get "rid of it". They know even if copyright is "fixed" now, it will only get corrupted again by those looking to make money off of it. The temptation for doing so will still be there, and we all know society does not learn from it's mistakes. Those people are trying to prevent the cycle from continuing. That's why they say "get rid of it (copyright)".
  Given your support of this system, maybe you should promote it in a way that does not put undue harm on society if you want people to abide by it. Most people are happy to support a creator for a work. They just don't want to support them indefinitely, (No other industry in the world can get away with "one finished job and made for life." Our economic systems would be insolvent if that happened.), to their detriment. (They want the ability to use the idea how they see fit. Restricting that prevents society from generating new ideas, works, and research. In short, restricting ideas leads to a halt of human advancement. Also once again, the world can't afford it.) Work within those restrictions and you would be successful. Work outside of those restrictions, as the industry is doing now, and don't be surprised when society says: "enough is enough."
18. Re:I feel so conflicted... by BarbaraHudson · 2016-02-05 04:21 · Score: 1
  
  It's gotten worse. The way they teach math now is so stupid and intentionally non-intuitive that it's no wonder kids can't do simple tasks like make change.
  
  --
  "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
19. Re:I feel so conflicted... by JoeMerchant · 2016-02-05 04:25 · Score: 1
  
  Before any "original thinking" indoctrination, I think that the young inventors of the world need to be introduced to the "Melancholy Elephants" http://www.spiderrobinson.com/... - there are Billions of educated people who have come before you, and independently developing an idea is far different from developing an original idea that _should be_ eligible for protection as intellectual property.
20. Re:I feel so conflicted... by ShanghaiBill · 2016-02-05 04:47 · Score: 2
  
  The way they teach math now is so stupid and intentionally non-intuitive that it's no wonder kids can't do simple tasks like make change.
  Could you please explain what your are talking about? I have two kids in public schools, and the math instruction is pretty much exactly what it should be. They focus on the basics, include real world applications (including "making change"), and allow smart kids to move ahead at their own pace on the computer.
  Perhaps you are talking about New Math which was introduced in the 1960s, and then abandoned by 1970. That was five decades ago.
21. Re:I feel so conflicted... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-05 04:56 · Score: 0
  
  Your point is the same as mine. Ideas don't have intrinsic values, but their realization does. By whatever medium. If you keep them in your head, more power to you, but we don't live inside your head, right? What gives them value is doing something with them and that means turning them into something physical, even if just as sound waves as you relate them to someone else.
22. Re:I feel so conflicted... by asdfman2000 · 2016-02-05 05:06 · Score: 2
  
  I'm not the person you're replying to, but he/she might be referring to programs like CPM, which had mixed results when I was in school.
  
  The problem isn't that it uses real world examples (those are excellent in teaching the "why" instead of just the "how"), it's that there is also an emphasis on group participation and strange unorthodox methods that aren't necessarily better.
  
  As for "New Math" being five decades ago... I've seen some relative's kids' homework that is required to be solved in strange ways using matrices, etc, that is definitely outside of the realm of traditional math.
23. Re:I feel so conflicted... by ShanghaiBill · 2016-02-05 05:23 · Score: 2
  
  he/she might be referring to programs like CPM
  
  CPM is a middle and high school program, when kids should be far beyond the ability to "make change". It is also specifically targeted toward college bound kids, where a more theoretical approach may be justified.
24. Re:I feel so conflicted... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-05 05:30 · Score: 1
  
  America is one of the only countries with a fascination with homeschooling and private schools. The benefits from homeschooling are erased when adjusted for income (that is, yes, homeschooled kids do better than average, but worse when you compare them to kids who have parents with similar incomes and educations), and on top of that you often end up with children who are brainwashed and socially awkward.
  Homeschooling is filled with far more faith and indoctrination than public schooling. That's the entire reason most people homeschool. So they can enforce their worldview on their children to the exclusion of all others. In most countries in the world, homeschooling is heavily regulated or even banned, and their public education is better for it.
  And nobody is limiting access to private schools, nor do they argue its poor quality. The argument is that you should not get any tax breaks or vouchers towards it, because that would be to the detriment of public education, essentially funding the rich at the expense of the poor.
25. Re:I feel so conflicted... by BarbaraHudson · 2016-02-05 05:34 · Score: 2
  
  he/she might be referring to programs like CPM
  CPM is a middle and high school program, when kids should be far beyond the ability to "make change". It is also specifically targeted toward college bound kids, where a more theoretical approach may be justified.
  You have obvious stopped paying cash for goods. There are plenty of cashiers who, when the total is $18.25, and you give them $20.25, give you back your 25 cents, and then another $1.75, instead of just giving you two bucks.
  
  --
  "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
26. Re:I feel so conflicted... by __aaclcg7560 · 2016-02-05 05:56 · Score: 1
  
  Perhaps you are talking about New Math [wikipedia.org] which was introduced in the 1960s, and then abandoned by 1970. That was five decades ago.
  When I was in college during the 1990's, Harvard Calculus became the new thing in teaching introduction calculus. The textbook had only word problems from "real life applications" with none of the problems demonstrated in familiar mathematical symbols. Even the instructors had problems trying to translate the word problems into mathematical symbols on the blackboard. I gave up the class after a few weeks. The university gave up on the courses a few years later.
  http://www.math.harvard.edu/~knill/pedagogy/harvardcalculus/
27. Re:I feel so conflicted... by __aaclcg7560 · 2016-02-05 06:06 · Score: 2
  
  You have obvious stopped paying cash for goods. There are plenty of cashiers who, when the total is $18.25, and you give them $20.25, give you back your 25 cents, and then another $1.75, instead of just giving you two bucks.
  If you really want to throw them for a loop, hand them $20.30 and watch them call the manager to figure out how to give back $2.05 in change. This has gotten so bad that I use only whole dollars at the stores and dump all the change into a jar at home. Coinstar does a better job counting change than these kids!
28. Re:I feel so conflicted... by DriveDog · 2016-02-05 06:20 · Score: 1
  
  Trojan horse curriculum. Hey, let's get the people to pay for their own brainwashing! Sounds like Alex P Keaton when he found his brother being taught to share in preschool.
29. Re:I feel so conflicted... by thoromyr · 2016-02-05 06:21 · Score: 1
  
  As a home schooler I'm interested in some of your claims. You have actually had contact with home schoolers? Their children? If so, how many? Was it just in a small area? Or spread out? You make some broad claims without any citation and it seems rather unlikely that you have broad experience on the subject.
  First, lets take your claim that it "comes out equal" when "adjusting for income". Some home schoolers I know are well off (middle class), but most are -- at best -- in the lower portion of the middle class if not lower class. As families, the ones I am familiar with, put a greater emphasis on the family rather than status or money -- which is why they home school and often have lower income than other families in the area.
  Second, you echo a broadly held belief that home schoolers are religious nutters. And it is certainly true that the people you find actively defending parental rights are often christian. But so is a lot of the rest of the population. For those families I'm familiar with they are as likely to be atheist or wiccan as christian, and the population at large here is *definitely* conservative christian. Go to the public schools and you will be around far more conservative christians than the home schoolers.
  Third, there are certainly some home schooled children who do not benefit from it. Bordering on teenager and still unable to write their names or do simple arithmetic. And that is sad and disturbing. Same area, much the same can be said of graduates from the public high school -- in other words children who are even older and cannot subtract, much less divide or multiply. The real reason home schoolers do better on average is most likely the vastly better student/teacher ratio.
  Fourth, it isn't as simple as home schooling vs public education. I am a firm supporter of public education -- but I am exercising my right to educate my children at home. It isn't easy -- to actually educate someone takes time, effort and money. I am supporting public education through property taxes (which, again, I support and approve of), but on top of that I am researching and obtaining educational materials (for the same reasons I support public education, I feel that educational materials should be provided to the public free of charge -- that is, subsidized as necessary for production). Then there has to be time to spend with the children to teach them *and* patience to go along with that. It isn't easy: sending your children to public school? *That* is easy.
  Finally, not all home schoolers are the same so unless you have some meaningful study or verifiable facts to back up your assertion then it is likely to be inaccurate generalizations brought on by prejudice.
30. Re:I feel so conflicted... by asdfman2000 · 2016-02-05 06:29 · Score: 0
  
  America is one of the only countries with a fascination with homeschooling and private schools.
  
  Individual liberty is a (or was) a core American ideal. We're also one of the only countries to enshrine into law the ability to speak one's mind without fear of oppression and to our ourselves to defend against oppression.
  
  The benefits from homeschooling are erased when adjusted for income
  ...you often end up with children who are brainwashed and socially awkward.
  Care to cite your sources? This is literally the opposite of almost every single study that's been done. Here's a good area to start: Wiki.
  
  Homeschooling is filled with far more faith and indoctrination than public schooling. That's the entire reason most people homeschool. So they can enforce their worldview on their children to the exclusion of all others. In most countries in the world, homeschooling is heavily regulated or even banned, and their public education is better for it.
  This very thread is about public school being used to indoctrinate kids! They don't even try to hide the fact they're trying to push a left-wing agenda on kids in school anymore.
  
  And nobody is limiting access to private schools, nor do they argue its poor quality. The argument is that you should not get any tax breaks or vouchers towards it, because that would be to the detriment of public education, essentially funding the rich at the expense of the poor.
  That's right, only the upper class would benefit from the extra couple grand a year. Many, if not most, parents would like to put their kids in private school but they can't afford it. Anything that makes success easier to reach for the everyday American (but also benefits the rich) is clearly bad policy.
31. Re:I feel so conflicted... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-05 06:29 · Score: 0
  
  Which nicely demonstrates the need to teach the difference between owning a copy and owning the original tooling/source code/gold master/etc (and with it, production rights). So-called "intellectual property" is no different from an old-school foundry in that respect; even digitally, the exact same concepts apply, all that changes is the ease of making derivative tooling. ...and while we're at it, I know of more than a few executives who need taught that distinction as well! "You can't work on your car because you down own the source code" my foot; feel free to void my warranty as modding is wont to do, but that's my copy of the engine management software and I'll do with it as I damn well please.
32. Re:I feel so conflicted... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-05 06:44 · Score: 0
  
  "America is one of the only countries ..."
  
  Given the wealth of ordinary people in the US vs. the poverty of ordinary people abroad, whatever America is doing everybody else should be doing.
33. Re:I feel so conflicted... by Hognoxious · 2016-02-05 06:56 · Score: 2
  
  First, lets take your claim that it "comes out equal" when "adjusting for income". Some home schoolers I know are well off (middle class), but most are -- at best -- in the lower portion of the middle class if not lower class.
  
  Nothing to do with what he claimed.
  It seems homeschoolers either don't learn reading comprehension or don't learn statistics.
  
  As families, the ones I am familiar with, put a greater emphasis on the family rather than status or money
  
  They're not so hot on punctuation either.
  
  --
  Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
34. Re:I feel so conflicted... by Hognoxious · 2016-02-05 07:00 · Score: 2
  
  First they came for the tape decks, but I didn't say anything because I had a cassette recorder.
  
  My fist thought was that a tape deck is a cassette recorder.
  You must be reely reely old.
  
  --
  Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
35. Re:I feel so conflicted... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-05 07:17 · Score: 0
  
  I think GP is referring to Common Core, which everybody has been calling "New Math." I didn't know that New Math was a 1960s thing, so thanks for the link.
  I remember looking at some of the stuff and being utterly bewildered. Once I learned what was going on, I sort of had an ah-ha moment. Ironically, they're teaching subtraction in a similar way that one would make change, except it's done in writing. Some of the notation is different. I'm not sure what my opinion is overall.
  Khan Academy has some common core maths lessons. At the bottom of the page I linked is addition and subtraction. I can't watch videos right now but I'll probably give it a watch later tonight for the hell of it. (You know you're a sad person when Friday evening consists of reviewing elementary school learning materials.)
  I'll leave a lengthier comment elsewhere, but it's amusing and horrifying watching the education system go through its contortions. If only we used $x our kids would be geniuses! Let's switch to $y and that'll fix all the problems! No, you fools, first you have to value knowledge, philosophy (term used very broadly), and logic. The reason we have kids who can't do algebra graduating is because they're the smart ones who know how money and power works. Instead, they can just hire the stupid ones like me.
36. Re:I feel so conflicted... by ShanghaiBill · 2016-02-05 07:39 · Score: 1
  
  You have obvious stopped paying cash for goods.
  Some cashiers can't make change today. Some cashiers couldn't make change in the 1950s. Do you have any evidence that the problem is getting worse, or that it is in any way related to how the schools teach math?
37. Re: I feel so conflicted... by Type44Q · 2016-02-05 08:45 · Score: 1
  
  Go to the public schools and you will be around far more conservative christians than the home schoolers.
  My ex and I homeschooled I precisely because the local public schools were staffed by evangelical illiterates; hell, they even keep the Ten Commandments up on the walls...
38. Re: I feel so conflicted... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-05 09:46 · Score: 0
  
  Call me a sick and cruel bastard, but this is what I'd do. I'd give everyone a basic algebra test. Anyone who fails it would be shot on the spot. Then a grammar test. Anyone failing that would be shot. (Yes, I know I just guaranteed I'm going to make a typo I won't catch.)
  I have noticed that without a doubt, there is a very strong correlation between good grammar and understanding algebra. I don't know what it is. However, people who have good grammar and algebra tend to be the people who get things done, solve problems, innovate, etc.
  Having poor grammar and an inability to do even the most basic algebra I've noticed is strongly correlated with being an asshole manager or a cocaine snorting master of the universe.
  Once we've eliminated all the parasites and morons at the top who contribute nothing but hot air and all the inbred rednecks on the bottom who gives those leeches their legitimacy, then maybe we can sit down and start coming up with solutions.
39. Re: I feel so conflicted... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-05 09:51 · Score: 0
  
  illiterates
  You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
40. Re:I feel so conflicted... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-05 09:54 · Score: 0
  
  I don't believe your 1950s claim, but I suspect the "can't make change" phenomenon has a lot to do with how common it is to use plastic and how uncommon it is to use cash.
41. Re:I feel so conflicted... by ShanghaiBill · 2016-02-05 11:01 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  I think GP is referring to Common Core
  That makes no sense, since CC does not specify any teaching method, only objectives.
  Most people opposed to Common Core have little idea what it actually is. Democrats tend to oppose it because they oppose anything that may lead to accountability. Republicans tend to oppose it because, although it was their idea, Obama is now for it, so that means they have to be against it.
  Besides, I doubt if there are many cashiers, competent or not, that were educated in arithmetic under Common Core, which has only been around for a few years.
42. Re:I feel so conflicted... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-05 11:08 · Score: 0
  
  That might be due to managing their register's supplies.
  There's only so much room in the drawer for coins. It could be they're trying to get rid of some to avoid having to roll up a bunch and put them in teh safe or whatever they do if they overfill the register.
43. Re:I feel so conflicted... by BarbaraHudson · 2016-02-05 13:16 · Score: 2
  
  Not when they give you back your quarter, then break open another roll of quarters to give you back three more.
  
  --
  "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
44. Re:I feel so conflicted... by matbury · 2016-02-05 22:19 · Score: 1
  
  The kids won't learn much about computer science but they'll learn how to talk and write like corporate lobbyists ;)
45. Re: I feel so conflicted... by matt_hs · 2016-02-06 03:28 · Score: 1
  
  I took some online tests for college proctored at a Sylvan Learning Center. One day, just making conversation, I asked what the problem was with Common Core. The lady told me Common Core expected teachers to teach how to come up with an answer in multiple different ways (I think she said at least three, but this was early last year). Every method works but many are non-intuitive -- they're most definitely NOT the way you would solve the problem in real life on a daily basis. Parents call Sylvan frustrated because their kids' homework says "Solve the problem using method x" and they don't understand what method x is or why'd you'd do it; 9 - 5 = 4. 7 x 3 = 21. Those are just facts. Why would you try to teach three different ways for coming up with the answer? That's how I understand the problem with Common Core.
46. Re: I feel so conflicted... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-06 10:03 · Score: 0
  
  You don't have a Right to home school your kids. You have permission from society.
47. Re: I feel so conflicted... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-07 03:40 · Score: 0
  
  Common core is just a set of milestones. By age X a child should know/understand Y. How you measure or teach Y is undefined by Common Core. Source: I work with data analysis and norming on Common Core from many different companies and DOEs, including reporting that indicates if a child is "on track" with the Common Core standard. There are a lot of tests that I work with and none of them mention anything about methods. They all look like tests that I took when I was a child decades ago, but they're all "Common Core" tests because they have been aligned with the Common Core goals.
  
  When you see people talking about how to "teach Common Core", they're just talking about some company that sold their school a curriculum that promises to help them pass the much harder Common Core assessments. You should have seen the kinds of crap assessments many DOEs had pre Common Core. They had arbitrary milestones with no scientific backing and almost always lax. I've seen 9th grade tests that were easier than 3rd grade tests once you looked at the alignments. Some DOEs defined passing as being in the top 60%, and they dedid their tests every few years to match. Because the quality of the education was going down, the tests were getting easier, but the percentage of children "passing" stayed relatively fixed. Common Core stops that by having a universal set of goals.
Good news! by mwvdlee · 2016-02-05 01:54 · Score: 5, Insightful

Kids will learn to protect original ideas.
So they'll learn not to protect unoriginal ideas like 99.9% of software patents.

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1. Re:Good news! by JaredOfEuropa · 2016-02-05 02:01 · Score: 1
  
  apply those [responsible and irresponsible] behaviors to protect original ideas.
  That sounds a lot like kids will learn to protect the original ideas of others, in other words to respect the stakes driven into the ground by the incumbent corporations in prior intellectual land-grabs. Sure, if you come acros an original idea yourself, you might be able to stake your own claim, but most of these "ideas" are already locked up tight.
  
  --
  If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
2. Re: Good news! by bill_mcgonigle · 2016-02-05 02:06 · Score: 0
  
  I'm sure the government school's ethics class will be as philosophically rigorous as the folklore they teach as history is factually accurate.
  And that it'll err o
  
  --
  My God, it's Full of Source!
  OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
3. Re: Good news! by bill_mcgonigle · 2016-02-05 02:07 · Score: 1
  
  @whipslash - mobile is dropping content.
  
  --
  My God, it's Full of Source!
  OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
4. Re: Good news! by idontgno · 2016-02-05 02:16 · Score: 1
  
  @whipslash - mobile is dropping [strong]seditious[/strong] content.
  FTFY.
  
  --
  Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
5. Re:Good news! by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-05 02:16 · Score: 1
  
  The kids won't be learning to protect their own ideas. They'll be learning that all of their ideas were already thought of by some big company, so they shouldn't try to fight the inevitable patent lawsuit and just settle out of court.
6. Re:Good news! by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-05 02:18 · Score: 0
  
  That sounds a lot like kids will learn to protect the original ideas of others, in other words to respect the stakes driven into the ground by the incumbent corporations in prior intellectual land-grabs. Sure, if you come acros an original idea yourself, you might be able to stake your own claim, but most of these "ideas" are already locked up tight.
  Look at how those companies became successful.
  The idea is to come across original ideas of others and claim them as your own before they got locked down by someone else.
7. Re:Good news! by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-05 02:55 · Score: 0
  
  It makes writing essays reaaaally easy, though.
  "Sorry, Teacher. I wrote a story so good, so wholly original, that I had to redact it all, CIA-style, except the "The" in the title. I expect my A+ smiley face tomorrow, thank you."
8. Re:Good news! by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-05 03:47 · Score: 0
  
  The word "idea" is already redefined to imply "unoriginal".
9. Re:Good news! by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-05 04:16 · Score: 0
  
  Yep. An they can avoid the whole litigious mess by not having or expressing ideas in the first place.
10. Re:Good news! by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-05 05:04 · Score: 0
  
  In an ideal world, maybe. In reality, their teachers will say "oh, what a great idea!" to some ridiculous and/or patented and/or classified technology and it will go nowhere.
Brainwashing 101 by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-05 02:00 · Score: 3, Insightful

get them while they are young.
1. Re:Brainwashing 101 by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-05 04:21 · Score: 0
  
  Don't worry, I'm sure the schools will couple this teaching of "behaviors to protect original ideas" with declarations that the school owns the rights to all work produced by the students. The kids will figure out very quickly how much BS this is. I wouldn't really expect much brainwashing to actually occur. Besides, brainwashing is harder than teaching and we've seen how well the schools handle that :)
  If it gets the schools some money and a good CS curriculum, I say a few minutes of IP propaganda is a small price to pay. A good teacher will identify that for what it is and skip that lesson anyway.
2. Re:Brainwashing 101 by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-05 05:34 · Score: 1
  
  For me this sort of thing backfired. Growing up I was repeatedly told about America the free, America the brave, etc.
  Now as an adult, I actually value freedom and bravery, and am disgusted by virtually everything this country does. A brave country doesn't piss itself over statistically insignificant acts of terrorism (whether Islamic or homegrown gun violence), a free country doesn't spy on its own innocent citizens or systematically disenfranchise the poor.
Sounds like a pretty good argument... by Roger+Wilcox · 2016-02-05 02:09 · Score: 3, Insightful

Sounds like a pretty good argument for taking the federal government out of education entirely.
Centralized mind control through propaganda; acculturation of our nation's youth to silence, oppression, and acquiescence to authority; normalization of the police state; blind nationalism through a fantastic daily "pledge." All of these things are strong counterarguments to the "fair and equal opportunity/better education for all " kind of rhetoric that comes out of Washington.
Seriously, think of the children. Think of all the misguided ideas their heads will be filled with. Think of the cultural values they will be taught to cherish and those they will be taught to revile. Think of the world they will grow up to accept or even create.
Whatever happened to civics class?
Teach your children well... and keep them far, far away from federally funded schools.
1. Re:Sounds like a pretty good argument... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-05 02:56 · Score: 0
  
  Sounds like a pretty good argument for taking the federal government out of education entirely.
  Not to the people proposing or supporting this crap. They get exactly what they want.
  
  Whatever happened to civics class?
  They turned into classes in kid-friendly versions of critical theory and social justice in computer science.
2. Re:Sounds like a pretty good argument... by BarbaraHudson · 2016-02-05 03:32 · Score: 1
  
  Whatever happened to civics class?
  I'd say it has "evolved", but too many schools would come at me with pitchforks screaming "burn the witch" for using that term, even in scary quotes.
  They should really call it "How to be PC when using a PC" and be done with the pretense.
  
  --
  "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
3. Re:Sounds like a pretty good argument... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-05 03:37 · Score: 0
  
  "Whatever happened to civics class?"
  This is what happened...
  http://trilateral.org/download/doc/crisis_of_democracy.pdf
  http://www.amazon.com/Democracy-Incorporated-Managed-Inverted-Totalitarianism/dp/069114589X/
4. Re:Sounds like a pretty good argument... by ohnocitizen · 2016-02-05 04:00 · Score: 2, Informative
  I wish this wasn't modded up. It's taking a shallow cut on a finger and arguing we should throw out the whole human.
  
  Federal standards for education are a good thing and should be STRENGTHENED because:
  
  We can ensure everyone has access to a quality education. Some states really give poor/minority students a shit deal, and in the south have a history of doing this on purpose.
  We can ensure science is SCIENCE, not a Christian religion class.
  We could bring back a REAL civics class and ensure it is available to all of our children, empowering a new generation to be more politically active and effective.
  Often when you see someone arguing against federal education, there's either paranoia at play, or an ulterior motive like "defunding federal government" or "states rights" (and all the historical baggage that claim goes with).
  
  Slashdot we are better than this. Let's be skeptical.
  
  This is not to say federal (or state) education standards can't be abused. The above article is an example of that (and we should fight against it). But let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Let's decide what great education looks like, and fight to make sure EVERY child in this country has access. Let's not settle for letting a regressive state like Kansas hurt their kids with a bad education AND GET AWAY WITH IT.
5. Re:Sounds like a pretty good argument... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-05 04:26 · Score: 0, Insightful
  
  So you have a right to decide how kids are educated but people in Kansas shouldn't have that right.
  Got it. Either agree with you or just shut up and keep paying taxes for stuff you don't like.
6. Re:Sounds like a pretty good argument... by Oligonicella · 2016-02-05 05:55 · Score: 1
  
  Let's decide what great education looks like, and fight to make sure EVERY child in this country has access. Let's not settle for letting a regressive state like Kansas hurt their kids with a bad education AND GET AWAY WITH IT.
  Interesting that sentiment starts with "Let's" and then immediately paints another view as regressive and bad, then shouts a call to arms. Reminds me of the guy in the movies waving the torch and urging on the mob.
7. Re:Sounds like a pretty good argument... by ohnocitizen · 2016-02-05 06:12 · Score: 2
  
  Society should have a right to say "You need to respect separation of church and state. You can't short change your kids out of a real education". Fuck yes. Should Kansas be allowed to teach creationism as if it were science? Fuck no. Of course you'd oversimplify as an anonymous coward.
8. Re:Sounds like a pretty good argument... by ohnocitizen · 2016-02-05 06:14 · Score: 2
  
  Right, because trying to keep church and state separate and advocating for quality education is the same as inciting a mob. Or maybe you don't have a substantive argument to counter mine.
9. Re:Sounds like a pretty good argument... by SuricouRaven · 2016-02-05 09:04 · Score: 1
  
  "Sounds like a pretty good argument for taking the federal government out of education entirely."
  Do you think the states would be any better? Or local?
  Or even private schools - that just results in the parents sending their child to a school dedicated to raising miniature clones of themselves.
  Children will be indoctrinated. That is their nature. You cannot teach them without forcing ideas upon them, because they instinctively mimic the society to which they are exposed.
Gobbledygook by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-05 02:13 · Score: 0

Sound more like BS than CS.
FFS Storm in a teacup by OzPeter · 2016-02-05 02:16 · Score: 2

The full quotes from TFA, Law and Ethics section

K-8 Progression
In early grades, students differentiate between responsible and irresponsible computing behaviors. Students learn that responsible behaviors can help individuals while irresponsible behaviors can hurt individuals. They examine legal and ethical considerations for obtaining and sharing information and apply those behaviors to protect original ideas. As students progress academically, they engage in legal and ethical behaviors to guard against intrusive applications and promote a safe and secure computing experience.

9-12 Statement
Laws impact many areas of computing in an effort to protect privacy, data, property, information, and identity. The legal oversight of computing involves tradeoffs; such laws can expedite or delay advancements and infringe upon or protect human rights. Ethical concerns also shape computing practices and professions. International variations in legal and ethical considerations should be examined.
So based on 3 words in a DRAFT statement of a section that considers Laws and Ethics, you want tar and feather the whole course? Where the fuck do you consider legal aspects of computing if you don't do it here. And FFS this could easily apply to GPL or any other such license that relies on the legal framework to enforce its restrictions.

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1. Re:FFS Storm in a teacup by jedidiah · 2016-02-05 03:31 · Score: 2
  
  The GPL is about implementations. So is any other license as that is the domain of copyright. The concept of "original ideas" is fundementally flawed and doesn't even match up with any existing form of "intellectual property". It is inappropriate in scope from a purely legal point of view. It's a pro-corporate distortion of the current legal framework.
  From an academic viewpoint (as in University academia), then entire notion of "original ideas" in computer science is laughable. Computer science is full of recycled ideas and things that just haven't been implemented in consumer devices yet. What you think is an "original idea" probably isn't.
  Not that this is a wild or unique insight. There are elements of primary education that undermine the notion "unique ideas".
  Although ultimately considerations of "laws and ethics" should at least reflect the actual law.
  
  --
  A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
2. Re:FFS Storm in a teacup by BarbaraHudson · 2016-02-05 03:34 · Score: 1
  
  So based on 3 words in a DRAFT statement of a section that considers Laws and Ethics, you want tar and feather the whole course?
  
  Wakey, wakey, there was already more than enough justification to tar and feather the businesses pushing this latest boondoggle. Way more than enough. They should be charged with conspiracy to defraud.
  
  --
  "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
Because... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-05 02:16 · Score: 0

...if there's one thing education is about, it's ensuring ideas are never shared with others.
I'd share with you some anecdote about past history in order to drive the point home, but it's so clever that it would be morally wrong to waste it on other people. Microsoft told me so. So figure it out for yourselves. Good luck.
1. Re:Because... by bigwheel · 2016-02-05 03:14 · Score: 1
  
  "...if there's one thing education is about, it's ensuring ideas are never shared with others."
  Seems like it. The whole point of education is to learn from what others have already figured out, and move forward from there. But if all ideas are owned and guarded, then there is nothing to learn from.
  What will be in the CS textbooks: Algorithms, Data Structures, Numerical Recipes, Networks, Operating Systems, Architecture, ...? They can all be replaced with a list of patent numbers owned by huge corporations and trolls.
  Even if you happen to come up with an idea on your own, it still might belong to someone else and be off-limits. So much for progress.
$4 Billion by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-05 02:23 · Score: 0, Flamebait

Obama announces $4 Billion in new spending, and in just a SHOCKING 3 days later the intended recipient has the proposal ready to begin collecting that money.
It has become obvious that the Federal government is just a scheme to take money from middle class and give it to their friends.
Everything you said is valid, but not the point of the program.
You got the point! by s.petry · 2016-02-05 02:24 · Score: 2

It is not about protecting "their" ideas, it's about brain washing people that it's okay to own an idea. This already happens today, but we sure don't hear any debate about the Government fixing patent trolls and the laws that allow abuse. In reality, that is small potatoes. Big players own all the big ideas. No need to troll is involved.
The brain washing will stop us peons from challenging the status quo.

--
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
1. Re:You got the point! by mwvdlee · 2016-02-05 03:34 · Score: 1
  
  It's brain washing.
  By deliberately using an overreaching definition of what can be legally, ethically and morally protected.
  Specific implementation of ideas are protectable by patents.
  Specific performances of ideas are protectable by copyright.
  Ideas themselves cannot be protected.
  
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2. Re: You got the point! by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-05 03:51 · Score: 0
  
  Brain washing? It would be brain washing if the law wasn't already clear: intellectual property exists, whether you like it or not, and it's not going away. You can cry, scream, pull your hair, whatever. It is settled. This is simply education. I don't like, nobody should, but the ugly truth is that corporations have won and we didn't even fire a shot. Now it's done. Better teach their kids how to function in the only world that exists and will ever exist - the one ruled by the richest - so that they won't have to pay for challenging the unassailable might of corporations.
3. Re:You got the point! by tepples · 2016-02-05 04:11 · Score: 1
  
  Yet what counts as "specific performances" can be considered fairly broad, as in the case of Tetris .
Goal - sell more computers by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-05 02:26 · Score: 0

I don't think the goal is to teach kids to be new computer programmers, but to create more potential consumers of their products (computers/software).
Also they know they will tell their future bosses how great a given vendors software is (usually the first one they learn about and compare all others they come across in the future to).
This is particularly true as the sales of computers start to saturate and drop off. Gotta keep the consumer driving demand.
Similar to a recent article that young new drivers aren't buying cars since they aren't getting drivers licenses at a young age but prefer to commute or ride with friends -thus a loss of sales to the car manufacturers. This may be due to the cost of a car and the high insurance premiums along with high fuel costs etc. Its cheaper to public transportation or ride with friends.
Hypocrisy can be used for good by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-05 02:30 · Score: 0

"Participating in an inclusive computing culture encompasses the following: building and collaborating with diverse computational teams, involving diverse users in the design process, considering the implication of design choices on the widest set of end users, accounting for the safety and security of diverse end users, and fostering inclusive identities of computer scientists." Hey, do as they say, not as they do!
It's easier to make fundamental changes to a wide population by indoctrinating children to challenge traditional thinking. The current Internet generation is still being held back by the previous pre-Internet generation, but through attrition we're making headway. The next generation will find it even easier to push for equality and fairness.
protect? by Gravis+Zero · 2016-02-05 02:37 · Score: 1

the only way to protect and "original idea" is to not share it with anyone. this seems like an idea that microsoft should be protecting/not sharing instead of spreading like a cancer.

--
Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
Microsoft: 'Original Ideas' is Our Business by theodp · 2016-02-05 02:41 · Score: 1

From Microsoft's latest 10-Q SEC filing: "Even as we transition to a mobile-first and cloud-first strategy, the license-based proprietary software model generates most of our software revenue. We bear the costs of converting original ideas into software products through investments in research and development, offsetting these costs with the revenue received from licensing our products."
1. Re:Microsoft: 'Original Ideas' is Our Business by BarbaraHudson · 2016-02-05 03:40 · Score: 2
  
  We bear the costs of converting original ideas
  Let me FTFY: "We bear the cost of stealing (Stacker, etc), buying out (Powerpoint, etc), and locking out (Java, IE, Word formats, etc) via incompatibility other's original ideas to pursue our god-given right to do whatever the hell we want to."
  
  --
  "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
2. Re:Microsoft: 'Original Ideas' is Our Business by JoeMerchant · 2016-02-05 04:49 · Score: 1
  
  The typical big company model is indeed to acquire new/original ideas from smaller companies - and these often do not come cheaply. So, next time you're hit up with $100 fee for a copy of your operating system, feel good about the hundreds of "little guys" who landed multi-million dollar buyout deals from the big fish, and try not to think about the billions being hoarded in offshore tax havens.
what a relief! by ooloorie · 2016-02-05 02:41 · Score: 3, Insightful

Core K-12 CS Practices'. "Participating in an inclusive computing culture encompasses the following: building and collaborating with diverse computational teams, involving diverse users in the design process, considering the implication of design choices on the widest set of end users, accounting for the safety and security of diverse end users, and fostering inclusive identities of computer scientists.
I was worried for a moment that generations of elementary school children would be forced to suffer through actual computer science content, like programming, sorting, assembly language, and computer architecture. I'm relieved that my worries were unfounded: they just seem to be forced to suffer through the same social activist crap they already have to sit through, except instead of the penguin getting along with the lion, it will now be expressed in the more kid-friendly terms of "inclusive design" and "team diversity". Yay!
1. Re:what a relief! by coofercat · 2016-02-05 03:08 · Score: 1
  
  ...they also won't have to worry about learning what the hell Open Source is, how it benefits humankind (and indeed the big corps too), how they can contribute and be useful, and how it has it's own legal framework that's remarkably easy to stay comfortably inside if you have half a brain. They'll be far too busy trying to learn about imaginary property, non-transferable licenses, annual subscriptions and contract lengths.
  All sounds great to me ;-)
Indoctrination? Good luck with that. by WOOFYGOOFY · 2016-02-05 02:42 · Score: 5, Interesting

Here's the full quote:
"In early grades, students differentiate between responsible and irresponsible computing
behaviors. Students learn that responsible behaviors can help individuals while
irresponsible behaviors can hurt individuals. They examine legal and ethical
considerations for obtaining and sharing information and apply those behaviors to protect
original ideas. As students progress academically, they engage in legal and ethical
behaviors to guard against intrusive applications and promote a safe and secure
computing experience. "
What these Kings of the Universe don't realize is normal people don't share and will never share their Ayn Rand -cocaine-driven amphetamine-fueled vision of extreme indivuduality at the expense of the health of society (which is the bedrock upon which protection of individuality rests).
So, sure, go ahead promote those discussions. The more discussion there is, the less well it goes for software patent lawyers like Brad Smith who, readers should know, basically originated the idea of using software patents as an offense weapon to supress innovation while he was at M$:
http://arstechnica.com/busines...
http://archive.fortune.com/mag...
which directly led to all other tech companies following suit and finally the fantastical, supernatrual prosperity of every Chinese take-out in Tyler, Texas.
All that's going to happen is they're going to find out no one shares their idea of societal good and justice. Every survey finds that young people are far more concerned with creating an fair, free and egalitarian society that benefits everyone, rather than the winner-take-all psychopathic shithole that is America at this particular tick of the clock.
Not everyone blew their brains out snorting coke while reading Ayn Rand in the 80s. That's a particular generation and they have a particular , uh, "view" of what the goals laws of society should support. Going on 40 years later now, it's getting to be old-man-dying-time for this particular strain of sociopathic, societal predators. Can't happen too soon for my money. Here, take it with you; fuckin' see ya later.
1. Re:Indoctrination? Good luck with that. by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-05 03:32 · Score: 0
  
  What these Kings of the Universe don't realize is normal people don't share and will never share their Ayn Rand -cocaine-driven amphetamine-fueled vision of extreme indivuduality
  
  Which people behind this program are you accusing of being regular uses of cocaine and amphetamines? Or is that just a Trumpism?
2. Re:Indoctrination? Good luck with that. by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-05 03:56 · Score: 0
  
  What could have been going on in your mind at the time, that you interpreted Ayn Rand's writings like that? Eh, probably it's just "invoke irrelevant unpopular thing to win someone over". It's not like a lot of people actually read it at this point.
3. Re:Indoctrination? Good luck with that. by JoeMerchant · 2016-02-05 04:55 · Score: 2
  
  Sadly, this Randian generation you speak of may be the first to significantly extend the lifespans of their most rich and powerful - for all our sakes' lets hope Kurzweil's time frame is as fantastical as it seems to be.
Huh? by transami · 2016-02-05 02:42 · Score: 0

Can anyone tell me what "fostering inclusive identities of computer scientists" actually means?

--
:T:R:A:N:S:
1. Re:Huh? by msauve · 2016-02-05 02:50 · Score: 3, Funny
  
  ITIM there should be no reserved characters when naming computer scientists. Not sure if the names are case sensitive though. I suspect sensitivity training would tell us they are.
  
  --
  "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
2. Re:Huh? by asdfman2000 · 2016-02-05 03:54 · Score: 0
  
  Can anyone tell me what "fostering inclusive identities of computer scientists" actually means?
  What you're supposed to think it means: "Make it so misogyny, racism, and homophobia that pervades computing (and only computing) doesn't make women and minorities feel unwelcome in tech jobs."
  
  What it really means: "White, heterosexual men are bad and keeping others from competing. The only reason there are fewer women and minorities in computing is because the evil White-Patriarchy makes off-color jokes occasionally, not because of any personal choices, lower socio-economic status, or education."
3. Re:Huh? by BarbaraHudson · 2016-02-05 03:55 · Score: 1
  
  Can anyone tell me what "fostering inclusive identities of computer scientists" actually means?
  1. Induced Multiple Personality Disorder.
  2. Cross-gender hormones. LOTS of them.
  3. Mandatory physical mutilation so they can understand what the "differently enabled" go through.
  4. Obligatory classes on becoming part of the Borg.
  5. Removal of the funny bone so that they can't tell jokes that might offend someone.
  6. Learning the proper newspeak, where "diversity" always really means politically correct conformity.
  
  --
  "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
4. Re:Huh? by alvinrod · 2016-02-05 06:11 · Score: 2
  
  The quality of the design, code, etc. is less important than some meaningless or circumstantial characteristic of person who wrote it.
5. Re:Huh? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-05 06:25 · Score: 0
  
  ITIM?
6. Re:Huh? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-05 06:28 · Score: 0
  
  I Think It Means...
When does the video... by barrywalker · 2016-02-05 02:46 · Score: 2

"Referrer Madness" become required viewing in the schools?
Washington post headline by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-05 02:49 · Score: 0

"Kids Teach Companies How to Share."
Tell you what... by Simulant · 2016-02-05 03:02 · Score: 2

You keep paying my salary for 70 years after I'm dead and I'll consider paying for your fucking IP.
1. Re:Tell you what... by tepples · 2016-02-05 04:22 · Score: 1
  
  You keep paying my salary for 70 years after I'm dead and I'll consider paying for your fucking IP.
  There are life insurance companies that offer this service.
My 7th grade BBS by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-05 03:39 · Score: 0

I was running my own pirate BBS from 7th grade until 12th grade (mid-90's). Before that I was trading blank floppies for floppies full of games. (no charge, because I'm not a capitalist)
On giants' shoulders since the 1150s by tepples · 2016-02-05 03:43 · Score: 1

what "usually" happens when you you use a collection of preused ideas is that you create something that is unoriginal, at best
True, standing on the shoulders of giants is unusual, as Isaac Newton wrote about it in 1676, and Bernard of Chartres five centuries before that.
"Revoke monetization" in what manner? by tepples · 2016-02-05 03:47 · Score: 1

Creators should have the right to pursue (or revoke) monetization of their efforts.
My answer depends on what you meant by "or revoke". If you meant that a work's author should have power to grant a royalty-free license to the public, I'm all for it. But if you meant that an author of a published work should have power to take it out of print entirely, acting like the proverbial dog in the manger toward historically significant films such as Song of the South and toward fans' ability to participate in culture, that's where I have to disagree.
No Ethically Trained CS would code DestroyBagdad() by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-05 04:09 · Score: 0

Obviously you should write DestroyCity() as a function, to which the target (Bagdad or whatever else) could be passed as an argument...
really, do we need FUD training in kindergarden so that kids don't pirate music? How about we spend less time brainwashing the kids, and more time teaching them how to learn?
no more blame for the dog by frovingslosh · 2016-02-05 04:13 · Score: 1

Yes Miss Berthnal, I did my homework.
No, I didn't hand it in. It is being reviewed by my attorney. You'll likely get it in 6-12 months, although it may be a bit longer. There were some excellent concepts there that he says need protection.

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I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
This will last about 2 days... by Noryungi · 2016-02-05 04:16 · Score: 1

Then, Mommy (or your best friend, or your Dad, or whoever) is going to show you how to download all the torrents of your favourite show!
And guess what?
- If Mommy does it, it can't be all bad.
- If you can get High-Def versions, it's actually real cool.
- If, during recess, you can swap all those episodes of your show for other shows that are also real cool, you make other people happy.
- And, later, you realize you can relive a bit of your childhood for cheap, since you don't have to buy the DRM Digital version of that real good show you used to watch as a kid... for essentially $0.
I am not worried about the kids -- I am more worried about the entertainment dealers, but the solution has been around for a long time: produce good stuff and slap a $2 per month tax on all internet access. Problem solved. But Hollywood is never going to go for it, they are just too greedy for their own good.

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The right to offend is far more important than the right not to be offended. (Rowan Atkinson)
1. Re:This will last about 2 days... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-05 05:39 · Score: 0
  
  Until they start asking the kids whose parents download television shows and rewarding the kids who tell.
Keep job when boss gives night or Sunday hours by tepples · 2016-02-05 04:18 · Score: 1

young new drivers aren't buying cars since they aren't getting drivers licenses at a young age [...] Its cheaper to public transportation
Until they find that they can't keep a job when employers are unwilling to accommodate the limited hours of operation of public transportation, with no service at night or on 58 days per year of scheduled downtime. Is "Reason for leaving: Poor schedule fit" valid?

or ride with friends
Until they find that friends also "aren't getting drivers licenses at a young age".
And there it is ... by gstoddart · 2016-02-05 04:24 · Score: 1

They examine legal and ethical considerations for obtaining and sharing information and apply those behaviors to protect original ideas
There is is ... the indoctrination aspect of this to ensure the kids are all fully compliant digital citizens. This shit is exactly what happens when you let corporations drive the curriculum.
This is just more bullshit control being exerted on our lives by asshole corporations.
I weep for humanity, because the next generation is being raised to be good little fucking corporate serfs. This is just forcing them to think "intellectual property" is anything other than an artificial construct to keep corporations rich.
I wish I could say I'm shocked, but this shit was never really about educating kids, this was always about controlling the damned message to serve corporate interests.

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Lost at C:>. Found at C.
1. Re:And there it is ... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-05 17:35 · Score: 0
  
  gstoddart's feeling his paranoid delusions of persecution again? Must've forgotten your interval again! Spare us your mongoloid imbecile level of what you call writing. Your unintelligible scrawlings are nonsense but expected from a cretin such as yourself, no questions asked.
Design-arounds are fine when there's no thicket by tepples · 2016-02-05 04:37 · Score: 1

They want the ability to use the idea how they see fit. Restricting that prevents society from generating new ideas, works, and research. In short, restricting ideas leads to a halt of human advancement.
The common counterargument to that is that copyright and patent encourage exploration of a larger fraction of the hyperspace of ideas. Patent design-arounds lead to alternative designs that are often more fit than the originally patented one. For example, PNG is more efficient rate/distortion-wise than still GIF, as is Vorbis than MP3. Copyright workarounds likewise lead to the development of more distinctive art styles.
The tragedy of the anticommons that you describe comes into play when there is a thicket, that is, when enough of the space around an idea is claimed that it's difficult to find space in which to stake a new claim. One might use combinatorics to suggest that music is already a thicket, such as the "105 million melodies" proof derived from seven pitch classes (do, re, mi through si), two duration classes (short and long), and an estimate of eight notes (seven intervals) to make a song's hook identifiable and protectable. Thus there are 14 different intervals from one note to the next, and 14^7 = 105.4 million, of which publishers represented by BMI and ASCAP already control over ten million.
Need the part where the artest gets nothing and no by Joe_Dragon · 2016-02-05 04:38 · Score: 1

Need the part where the artiest gets nothing and no rights to there own work.
With the Hollywood accounting, very inflated studio fees, etc that shows we lost money on your work.
Independent creation is a defense by tepples · 2016-02-05 04:52 · Score: 1

independently developing an idea is far different
In theory, independent creation is not infringement. In practice, good luck proving that.
A successful copyright infringement suit requires the copyright owner to show evidence of three things: the plaintiff's ownership of the copyright in suit, the alleged infringer's access to the plaintiff's work, substantial similarity between the plaintiff's work and the alleged infringer's work. The alleged infringer's defense can include evidence against these three elements, such as independent creation, or it can involve evidence of authorization, such as a license or a legally authorized use (such as fair use or other limitations 17 USC 107 through 123).
So if the plaintiff fails to prove the alleged infringer's access to the plaintiff's work, the judge will find no infringement. But there is a sliding scale: the more similarity the plaintiff can show, the less access it needs to show, and vice versa. A "striking similarity" creates a rebuttable presumption of access, and an alleged infringer is likely to have a hard time disproving that. Likewise, if the plaintiff's work has become widely exhibited in some market, a circumstantial argument that the alleged infringer reasonably should have had access to the work will put more pressure on the alleged infringer to prove dissimilarity. Thus flooding the market with trailers and merchandise, as the various companies in various countries' MAFIA (music and film industry associations) are known to do, makes it harder to prove independent creation.
Sucks for those who prefer to work alone by h4ck7h3p14n37 · 2016-02-05 05:02 · Score: 1

"Participating in an inclusive computing culture encompasses the following: building and collaborating with diverse computational teams, involving diverse users in the design process, considering the implication of design choices on the widest set of end users, accounting for the safety and security of diverse end users, and fostering inclusive identities of computer scientists."
As a very introverted child, this sort of curriculum would have turned me right off from programming. I was attracted to computers precisely because it was something I could do quietly by myself and away from other people.
Too diverse by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-05 05:28 · Score: 0

Count the number of times the word 'diverse' is used.
This is fluff.
The founder of the US never put the feds into it by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-05 06:03 · Score: 0

Jimmy Carter created the Education Department in the 1970s as a sop to the two massive (and Democrat-aligned) national Teachers' Unions. It would have shocked our founders that the federal government they created has become involved in education at all. READ the Constitution!
Given that nearly all teachers in the US must be in one of the unions as a condition of employment, and given that the big teachers' unions are among the most active special interest groups of the Democrat party, it's no surprise that they are doing a remarkably bad job of educating kids on American history and economics; it's not in their interests to have Americans who understand money or the Constitution. It's actually possible to go through an entire K-12 education in America without reading the Constitution which is very short and is the basic design document for our government. The fact that so many young people now openly support socialism is further evidence of the brainwashing the Democrats in the schools have been engaged in. Terminal stupidity pushed by teachers.
Good. by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-05 06:29 · Score: 0

It's very important to inclusively protect diverse original ideas in order to preserve and foster the inclusiveness and diverseness of the widest set of diverse idea-haver's diverse identities.
Re:The founder of the US never put the feds into i by radarskiy · 2016-02-05 06:34 · Score: 2

a) The President cannot unilaterally create a Cabinet-level department. In addition, all Cabinet member appointments require Senate approval.
b) The Department of Education Organization Act merely split Education from Health and Human Services, which were previously one department.
c) The earliest Department of Education was created in 1867, somewhat before Jimmy Carter took office.,
so...that whole "teach everyone to code" thing... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-05 06:42 · Score: 1

which involved the biggest, most-privacy-robbing corporations getting in bed with a massive central government went a little fascist....who'd a thunk it?!?!?
Stupid ignorant morons who refuse to study history and willfully ignore nearly everything America's founders wrote are likely to be surprised. The rest of us: not so much. Part of the basic idea of human civilization is that each generation ought to learn the lessons of their predecessors; it saves lots of time and pain to dodge the pain of errors by reading about them and then avoiding them rather than repeating them. The nation's founders wrote extensively about tyranny and avoiding it. They even set up a system to make it easy to avoid tyranny; we only needed to follow the guidelines. Sadly, most people are easily tempted to enable the government to grow and get into lots of stuff where it does not belong in order to achieve something THEY want, ignoring that this expansion of government automatically enables lots of other stuff they do not want. This is sheer idiocy, which our founders explicitly warned us against.
The best way to protect ideas by TsuruchiBrian · 2016-02-05 06:46 · Score: 2

The best way to protect ideas is to copy them as much as possible. Protecting the "owner" of an idea is a different story. This involves restricting use of an idea only to people that have paid for the rights to the idea.
Do we need intellectual property laws? Probably, but what current intellectual property laws do is more like protecting young girls by ensuring they can only marry who pays their father the most money.
Results on Recess by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-05 08:00 · Score: 0

Principal: Tommy, did you watch the other kids playing Wall Ball today with Billy Wilkinson's new rules?
Tommy: Yes, it was a great game!
Principal: And did you describe that game to little Mary Jane Smith, without explicit written permission to do so by Billy Wilkinson?
Tommy: Ummm ... no.
Principal: Well Tommy, as you have learned in your Computer Science curriculum, we need to protect original ideas and related activities. The rules of that particular variety of Wall Ball were invented by Billy. And Billy requires written permission for anyone to discuss the games so that he can protect his ideas. We have also heard that you propose to play a game of Wall Ball at home later using Billy's rules, again, without his permission.
Tommy: But it's just a game!
Principal: It's thinking like that which destroys innovation and the American way Tommy. Billy has requested that we expel you from our Elementary school, and I have to agree with him in this regard. Go get your things, your parents will be here to pick you up. I only hope that they can come to terms with your wrong way of thinking, poor little Tommy.
Comp School, now with Kool-Aid. Drink up kiddies! by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-05 08:12 · Score: 0

Orwell described this. I think Obama and Smith will try to ban Orwell. His "independent thinking" ideas conflict with the command and control Obama and Smith are pressing into the youth.
NDAs and Trolling by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-05 08:26 · Score: 0

"Teacher, teacher! Our team forgot to require NDA form our new member and he went to tell our secrets to the Bob's team, who is now threaten to request our course work to fail if we don't give them our ideas! I feel like crying a bit or two." "There, there Jason. We are here to learn the realities of how the CS and culture in general is dest..created and restr..promulgated. You can have extra credit for turning one of the Bob's team against him and have him or her talking in front of the class, or accusing him of unequal sharing of work among the team members." "Sniff, I feel much better now, teacher. Thanks!" "Just remember to wipe those potato flour remains around your nose before proceeding, Jason."
Hey, "Narc on your Parents" worked great for DARE by Ellis+D.+Tripp · 2016-02-05 09:21 · Score: 1

http://www.theagitator.com/201...

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Remember "News for Nerds, Stuff that Matters"? Help make it a reality again! http://soylentnews.org
Protecting that which can not be protected by AutodidactLabrat · 2016-02-05 10:24 · Score: 1

And, of course, IDEAS can not be patented nor copyrighted, only the implementation
So why teach kids not to use that which is lawful use?
because Mickey is an IDEA (says Disney)
Re:Brainwashing 101 ; " have the responsibility... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-02-05 10:31 · Score: 0

...sez who? Anyway, what do you mean by "responsibility" anyway? is that something like "Duty"? If so, I refer you to one far more eloquent than I am:
"Do not confuse "duty" with what other people expect of you; they are utterly different. Duty is a debt you owe to yourself to fulfill obligations you have assumed voluntarily. Paying that debt can entail anything from years of patient work to instant willingness to die. Difficult it may be, but the reward is self-respect.
But there is no reward at all for doing what other people expect of you, and to do so is not merely difficult, but impossible. It is easier to deal with a footpad than it is with the leech who wants "just a few minutes of your time, please - this won't take long." Time is your total capital, and the minutes of your life are painfully few. If you allow yourself to fall into the vice of agreeing to such requests, they quickly snowball to the point where these parasites will use up 100 percent of your timeâ"and squawk for more!
So learn to say No-and to be rude about it when necessary. Otherwise you will not have time to carry out your duty, or to do your own work, and certainly no time for love and happiness. The termites will nibble away your life and leave none of it for you.
(This rule does not mean that you must not do a favor for a friend, or even a stranger. But let the choice be yours. Don't do it because it is "expected" of you.)â
- Robert A. Heinlein, Time Enough for Love
https://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/205.Robert_A_Heinlein