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In Japan, a Battle Brewing Over the Right To Record 4k and 8k Broadcasts (itmedia.co.jp)

AmiMoJo writes: Japanese broadcasters have indicated that 4k and 8k broadcasts may have recording disabled via a 'do not copy' flag [via Google Translate], which receivers would be expected to obey. Now the Internet Users Association (MIAU) and Shufuren (Housewives Federation) have submitted documentation opposing the ban. The document points out that the ban will only inconvenience the majority of the general audience, while inevitably failing to prevent unauthorized copying by anyone determined to circumvent the protection.

17 of 105 comments (clear)

  1. Evil bit again? by gstoddart · · Score: 4, Insightful

    And, once again broadcasters and copyright assholes want veto power over technology, and the evil bit of "thou shall not record" has reared its head.

    Every new piece of technology immediately gets co-opted as corporations tell us what we're allowed to do because they apparently feel the world exists to serve their fucking business model.

    Oh, and of course if ratified the TPP will make this entrenched in law -- so you could spend life in prison for recording a show to watch later.

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  2. This time... by taiwanjohn · · Score: 5, Funny

    Unlike past efforts, our NEW copy protection scheme will totally work.

    By the way, by any chance, would you happen to be in the market for a bridge?

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    XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve your problem, you're not using enough of it. --AC
    1. Re:This time... by gstoddart · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You know the scary thing? As I pointed out above, if the TPP is ratified, then the copyright cartel will have even more clout to do this.

      ISPs and pretty much every piece of technology on the planet would be made subservient to the demands of the copyright lobby.

      It won't "work" in the sense of actually stopping anything, but it would suddenly carry much harsher legal penalties, and both ISPs and governments would be responsible to police this on behalf of the copyright holders.

      The TPP is written in such a way that pretty much everybody works on behalf of the IP groups ... which probably means they're feeling quite emboldened these days.

      Because if it comes into law, they'll pretty much hold all of the cards.

      Reason number 9,862 why that TPP is a terrible idea, and will only help multinational corporations instead of the actual citizens.

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    2. Re:This time... by gstoddart · · Score: 2

      Big deal. Stop watching the content. It's hardly important

      I agree that the content is hardly important.

      I disagree that corporations being given such vast power over our lives to protect their own interests at our expense isn't a big deal.

      Because it fundamentally tilts the playing field such that corporations have far more influence over our lives and the law than we do, and it entrenches in law that corporations have internationally recognized rights which go well beyond those of thee and me.

      It puts governments on the hook to actually be subservient to corporations, and allow those corporations to influence how things work more so than those governments.

      Ignore the content for a moment, and look at what that treaty is REALLY doing.

      Saying "and nothing of value will be lost" means you have no idea of what is really being lost here. Because once we cede those rights to corporate interests, we will never get them back, and forever be under their thumbs.

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    3. Re:This time... by taiwanjohn · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Reason number 9,862 why that TPP is a terrible idea

      Keep counting... you've got a long way to go yet.

      Is it just a coincidence that the most 'exciting' candidates on both sides in the current election (Trump and Sanders) have both come out against the TPP? (Yeah, Clinton has come out against it too, but nobody believes her.) I honestly don't know a single person in America who thinks these so-called "free trade" deals are a good idea, and yet here comes another one.

      The liberal talk-show host, Thom Hartmann, likes to refer to the TPP as the Southern Hemisphere Asian Free Trade Agreement or SHAFTA.

      --
      XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve your problem, you're not using enough of it. --AC
    4. Re:This time... by Locke2005 · · Score: 2

      No, they're assuming the majority of consumers will be too lazy or too cheap to buy a device to defeat the latest attempt at copy protection. Kind of like the manufactures of this year's new version of Teflon pans assume people wont remember that the previous 20 versions of Teflon all flaked off withing a few years, due to the fundamental physical principle that if nothing sticks to it, then it doesn't stick to the pan! And yet they're still making money selling the "new and improved!" Teflon pans!

      --
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  3. this is quite normal, said the panda-fish-robot by Pseudonymous+Powers · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Japanese broadcasters have indicated that 4k and 8k broadcasts may have recording disabled via a 'do not copy' flag [via Google Translate], which receivers would be expected to obey.

    Wait, they're demanding that their content receive special legal protections solely on basis of its resolution? Wow, I thought I couldn't be any more disgusted with IP lobbyists, but as usual, Japan is always finding new ways to surprise me.

  4. No recording=no timeshifting, shooting foot? by PeterM+from+Berkeley · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Seems like the broadcasters are shooting themselves in the foot! If you can't record, you can't store up a bunch of shows to watch later.

    This means that people won't watch broadcast at all, but rather will default to streaming services for convenience of watching when they want.

    Seems like they've got the wrong solution. Instead of "do not record", it should be "do not copy the recording you make to other media"--which, guess what, is what most people do anyway with their DVRs.

    Best,

    --PeterM

  5. Business as usual by m76 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Most copy protection devices only achieve the task of annoying the living crap out of legitimate users, while doing nothing to prevent grand scale piracy.

  6. In Japan by Pikoro · · Score: 4, Interesting

    In Japan, most TVs and DVD/BR players contain the ability to record. It is fairly entrenched to record shows for later viewing, especially things like daytime dramas, hence the housewives outcry. This will affect millions of daily viewers.

    --
    "Freedom in the USA is not the ability to do what you want. It is the ability to stop others from doing what THEY want"
  7. TPP FTW! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    > Oh, and of course if ratified the TPP will make this entrenched in law [...]

    That bears repeating, slowly and loudly: Japanese, look at all the goodness TPP is pouring over you.

    Fight it tooth and nail.

    Of course, Aussies, NZers, and -- yes, USians too. Let your representatives know that you *don't want that crap ratified*. Don't listen to what lobbies and corrupt politicans say about it. It's always a bad idea to let lobby groups write laws.

  8. Re:'do not copy' flag by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 4, Funny

    No. They are renaming the "Evil" bit.

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  9. Re:A big problem everywhere, not just Japan by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The premise is right that restrictions inconvenience users who aren't interested in piracy and probably drive many of them to piracy.

    Yep, and it's not just the DRM. I've found that legitimate channels are often worse than illegitimate ones in many ways. Hulu is a fantastic example of this. You pay monthly and are still subjected to advertisement. Even at the highest paid service level with (mostly) no ads, Hulu insists on plastering a damned watermark of the local affiliate station (essentially an advertisement) over the stream for the entire duration of the show. Actually, calling it a watermark is a stretch, because it's not even translucent - it's nice and bright and in your face for the entire show. It's very distracting to me.

    Moreover, Hulu doesn't provide past seasons of many shows, so if you haven't been watching for the past few years already, you can't catch up. What's the point of an on-demand streaming service if they don't provide a full catalog so new subscribers can catch up? I could rent those shows, but the prices are outrageous. That's old-school broadcaster thinking for you. Idiotic.

    On the other hand, I could easily download every show I currently watch on Hulu via bittorrent with better quality encoding and no distracting watermark, and I can download all past seasons of any show with no hassle. Why am I being a chump and paying Hulu for the privilege of a degraded experience? Well, because I want to support the shows I like, I suppose. I've honestly been considering cancelling Hulu, as I already subscribe to a few other streaming services. This is what happens if your legitimate offering is worse than pirating.

    --
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  10. Why not call it the honor bit by goombah99 · · Score: 2

    It's asking you to respect your own honor and integrity by not taking something the owner is willing to share but not give to you. The logic that says because determined dishonorable people will do it that it should be honorable for me to do it beggars belief.

    Furthermore even if you have no honor when the door is closed and your are anonymous at your computer then it still is highly effective. For example, I'd truly like to watch Black Sails. But it requires a Starz membership I don't think is worth the price. I could easily go over to some place like couchtuner to pirate it but then i'd get shit quality and some russian drive-by trojaning attempts. No thanks. On the otherhand if this were super easy to pirate there'd be a gazillion ways to see it in high def all without the russian trojans. Thus the fact that it's not worth the effort to subvert the process actually is a barrier to entry more than just relying on an honor system. it works for people inclined to honorable but never the less tempted by the lure of sticking it to the man and his outrageously high priced restrictions.

    Steve jobs proved the point when songs became $1. Lots of people are happy to pay a reasonable price for convenience and feeling they didn't cheat.

    --
    Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
    1. Re:Why not call it the honor bit by lars_stefan_axelsson · · Score: 2

      It's asking you to respect your own honor and integrity by not taking something the owner is willing to share but not give to you. The logic that says because determined dishonorable people will do it that it should be honorable for me to do it beggars belief.

      What? First, the reason copyright exists is because I tolerate it. That's why there is law that says that I can copy a TV show, not only law that says that it's illegal. So there is no "owner" that's willing to "share" but "not give" as there is no owner that has that option!. We haven't given them that option, and that's that. We've given them a limited say in who gets to copy what, under what circumstances, and that's it. If they don't like to live under those limits, then by all means, don't let the door hit your collective arses on the way out.

      Furthermore, you've got the argument completely backwards. They're the ones saying that "We absolutely need this otherwise we'll be robbed blind and reduced to begging in the streets". We then, rightly point out that you don't seem that poor to me, even though everybody's supposedly "stealing" your stuff left and right, so you don't get to curtail all our use, through technological means, what the law wouldn't allow. Since it patently doesn't work, and cannot work, and you're doing fine, you don't have a leg to stand on! In either case it's our decision, not yours.

      --
      Stefan Axelsson
    2. Re:Why not call it the honor bit by goombah99 · · Score: 2

      Should it not be there choice? Let them decide their business model. As I said, I'm not forking my money over to Starz because I don't like their bussiness model. But I'm also using my dislike of their choice as a reason for pirating the show. In fact I respect that they are making it possible for me to see it if I choose to. The place where piracy matters is when it's the only option-- when something is not (practically) available. And as far as bussiness models go, I'm fairly sure Starz will be dropping their price point-- at this time they probably get most of their money from cable contracts not internet sales so it would be stupid to undercut that. I don't think they want to gouge me, it's just that's the bussiness dilemma they face. In the future their internet grows, cable wanes, and they face competition so they ddrop the price. Or if they don't there's plenty of other video out there.

      --
      Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
  11. Let's just destroy television for everyone! by kheldan · · Score: 3, Interesting

    This is the age of the DVR. Who the hell actually watches a broadcast TV show when it's actually scheduled? Everyone records it on a DVR and watches it later. Wait, not allowed to record it? Gee I guess that show doesn't get watched then. I'm sure content providers will just love that, their shows all die in the ratings because people aren't willing to have their lives rotate around a TV show schedule. This is about as stupid as stupid can get; you'd think some politician thought of it, it's about as pants-on-head retarded as wanting backdoors in encryption. Also it won't work, there'll be hacks around it, and it'll just promote the idea of filesharing those shows even more than they would be otherwise. Stupid idea, needs to die, LET PEOPLE RECORD WHAT THEY WANT.

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