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Facebook Developing Radio Wave Mesh To Connect Offline Areas (thestack.com)

Posted by timothy on from the don't-tell-the-government-of-india dept.

An anonymous reader writes: As part of its wider Internet.org initiative to deliver connectivity to poor and rural communities, Facebook is actively developing a new network technology which uses millimetre wave bands to transmit data. Facebook engineer Sanjai Kohli filed two patents which outlined a 'next generation' data system, which would make use of millimetre wave technology deployed as mesh networks. Kohli's patents detailed a type of centralised, cloud-based routing system which 'dynamically adjusts route and frequency channel assignments, transmit power, modulation, coding, and symbol rate to maximize network capacity and probability of packet delivery, rather than trying to maximize the capacity of any one link.'

44 comments

  1. does it have to be poor AND rural? by turkeydance · · Score: 2

    there are urban poor and rural rich communities.

    1. Re:does it have to be poor AND rural? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Generally speaking, rich people don't work on farms or live in villages.

    2. Re:does it have to be poor AND rural? by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      Yes. The magnetic strips in credit cards interfere with millimeter wave bands.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    3. Re:does it have to be poor AND rural? by thinkwaitfast · · Score: 1

      Around me (rural) there are all luxury retreat 'cabins'. Not many farmers. Not all farmers are poor either.

    4. Re:does it have to be poor AND rural? by Jack+Griffin · · Score: 2

      By 'generally', you mean in your limited experience? I used to work for Case New Holland, their business is selling million dollar machines to farmers, and they're doing well.
      I've also been on a few wine tours where entire regions have been covered in multi-million dollar vineyards.
      A friend of mine at school was from a farming family. They're the only people I ever knew who owned a plane.
      I'm not sure what you perception of rural is, but I can assure you that among the peasants there are plenty of rich people.

    5. Re:does it have to be poor AND rural? by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1

      "there are urban poor and rural rich communities."

      But sometimes rural rich communities have to suffer from chintzy broadband caps, not to mention no Apple store.

    6. Re:does it have to be poor AND rural? by FauxReal · · Score: 1

      I guess it goes to show how valuable accurate information about people is.

      --
      Deltron 3030 - Virus (music video)
    7. Re:does it have to be poor AND rural? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They just want to make sure they can gather data from *everyone*. I'm sure there's advertisers waiting for the opportunity to break into the "rural poor" communities... and Facebook is more than happy to take their money.

  2. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  3. How nice of them by penguinoid · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Facebook wants to spy on people who don't have internet access, too. Wouldn't want them to feel left out.

    --
    Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
  4. This is real. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is real. Mesh networks are deployable to rural areas and all they need is one microwave uplink. Per region. Or satellite.

    Local jurisdictions oppose due to political risk.

    GFL.

    JJ

    1. Re:This is real. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If this is all Facebook accomplishes since its IPO, then it will be valuable from a human perspective.

      JJ

    2. Re:This is real. by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      oppose due to political risk.

      Yes, the risk is having an internet that can't be turn off, or censored. Control of content would be lost.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
  5. Perfect by 110010001000 · · Score: 1

    The millimeter radiation will kill everyone in poor and rural communities. What a plan!

  6. Google is doing it to by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    N/T

  7. Ham radio has been doing this already by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ham's have been doing this since 2012 from the info I was able to find. Broadband-Hamnet, it's limited to licensed ham's but the technology could easily be adapted to use unlicensed sections of the rf spectrum.

    1. Re:Ham radio has been doing this already by fred911 · · Score: 4, Informative

      AMPRNet is significantly older than 2012. I had nodes running on an STB 4COM (RS232) running under Desqview on a 386 if I remember correctly. Nodes were 1/2 duplex at 300baud with many hidden transmitters, running on 2 meter. If I remember an old FTP to UCSD of a wopping 300k took 8 hours:-)

      So yes,, it's by no means new.

      --
      09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B - D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
    2. Re: Ham radio has been doing this already by cdwiegand · · Score: 1

      Ah but this is mesh (so it's not AMPRNet), and it runs much more bandwidth (higher frequencies tend to have more bandwidth available) and doesn't necessarily require a ham license. Also it could support encryption which is very not allowed on ham bands.

      We may have played around with mesh, and there's even a few real deployments in the US, but this is (potentially) production use to connect real users to the Internet. Given that websites are all moving to HTTPS, even the BBHN stuff gets less useful every day except in emergency scenarios.

      --
      . Define sqrt(x) as something really evil like (x / rand()), and bury it deep. Watch your coworkers go nuts.
  8. Google is doing it too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    *too*

  9. This sounds like... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    FidoNET on steroids...

  10. Facebook is a sort of a bar that I hate to go to by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And I'm developing IA to find the next node of data from rogue stored data. Example: I have a picture, and there where the next picture goes. I love math... That's why I'm better than meths. Yeah, meths. Good old times we had to deal with crackers.

  11. to the haters by cosm · · Score: 1

    This is a good thing. Appreciate investment in mesh internet technology. If some tech-savvy-group-hated corporate entity starts getting people to think about the idea, maybe an open source solution will come about if it picks up momentum. If you hate the idea of a corporate dystopia where all internet pipes are monitored, start working on open source hardware and software projects to truly decentralize the internet from the lowest levels of hardware and network communication. Corporate America is 100% in control over the internet right now in terms of the L1-L2 side of networking, so do something about it or stop complaining.

    --
    'We are trying to prove ourselves wrong as quickly as possible, because only in that way can we find progress.' RPF
    1. Re:to the haters by cosm · · Score: 1

      This is a good thing. Appreciate investment in mesh internet technology. If some tech-savvy-group-hated corporate entity starts getting people to think about the idea, maybe an open source solution will come about if it picks up momentum. If you hate the idea of a corporate dystopia where all internet pipes are monitored, start working on open source hardware and software projects to truly decentralize the internet from the lowest levels of hardware and network communication. Corporate America is 100% in control over the internet right now in terms of the L1-L2 side of networking, so do something about it or stop complaining.

      And in bad form, replying to self... I can tell you from the inside that it is only going to get worse in terms of the pipe you get to your house. Your data is only going to be monitored more. The bandwidth and latency you get will get shittier. The ads will get shittier. The choices will become more monopolized. Look at the types of mergers and acquisitions the Dept. of Whatever is approving these days if you want to know what is really going on behind the scenes. Do something about it and contribute to an open source solutions that supports your ideologies. Do not expect corporate america or a start-up to provide salvation. Any startup that is a threat to telcos will be bought and shut down in months to maintain the grip. The internet will relentlessly march towards the misery of cable television unless THE COMMUNITY of apt developers provides free/libre/working solutions to real world problems. What are you doing about it? Who are you voting for that recognizes the issues? Who do you work for that is making the problem worse? Open access to free flowing information is the foundation of free society. The hug-box don't-offend-me mentality of this new web will kill innovation in the long run and stifle dissenting and boisterous voices who otherwise could have effected positive change on what the internet looks like in 200 years. Torvalds paved the way for the libre OS. Let's do it for the internet's communication medium from the H/W side. This means ensuring FCC doesn't get paid off to stop every attempt to do so. Think about what you've seen the software side of the internet turn into in the past 20 years, and mentally project how the H/W side is going to go with regards to control, regulation, and monitoring unless somebody develops a solution for distributed free internet so powerful and so ubiquitous that the momentum of change cannot be stopped by the voting shareholder majorities.

      --
      'We are trying to prove ourselves wrong as quickly as possible, because only in that way can we find progress.' RPF
    2. Re:to the haters by indi0144 · · Score: 1

      Define real world problems. Because I'm sure that someone living where this technology is intended to work may have way more things to worry about than Facebook or other evil corp having a "profile" of him or her. Have you actually thought of what this kind of data could be useful to FB? You can't monetize it as good as the data from developed nations, it's prolly more valuable for sociologic research and in bulk. Do you think the Zuck maybe likes to sit in a 120 inch screen and wank to a real time map of his network in Kiribati? Please don't extrapolate "real world problems" to the problems of people in the real world of a developing nation, hurts your message which is a valid concern for us who might care or be really affected by it.

    3. Re: to the haters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's a romantic motion, but I'm sure the corporate overlords would solve the problem quickly. A few campaign donations are sure to convince the pols that only terrorist want to run independent networks. They would ensure we know that it's for our own protection, too.

  12. Sounds about right by AndyKron · · Score: 2

    So basically they got patents on something that already exists? Sounds about right.

  13. I'm no expert, so I could be wrong, by jenningsthecat · · Score: 1

    but it doesn't sound like there's anything earth-shatteringly new here. I'm guessing there will be at least a few 'prior art' challenges to the patents.

    --
    'The Economy' is a giant Ponzi scheme whose most pitiable suckers are the youngest among us and the yet-unborn.
  14. LMFTFY by ZipK · · Score: 1

    As part of its wider Internet.org initiative to deliver connectivity^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^HFacebook to poor and rural communities

  15. They blew it and said the magic word by fustakrakich · · Score: 2

    "Centralised"

    If it's centralized, it's not mesh. Though it is good to see more development in this area. Once we can make it decentralized, we'll have an internet that nobody can turn off. And that, ladies and gentlemen, would be a great thing.

    --
    “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    1. Re:They blew it and said the magic word by penguinoid · · Score: 1

      Isn't decentralized internet really messy?

      --
      Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
    2. Re:They blew it and said the magic word by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      More that the users on the wide mesh end up on the brands central network and get a free branded cloud account.
      Decentralized would be a few random exit points to the real internet rather than "ultimately its platform" :)

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    3. Re:They blew it and said the magic word by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      Isn't decentralized internet really messy?

      I don't know about that, but it is really meshy.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  16. Let me know when there is a place using this... by BlytheBowman · · Score: 1

    .. otherwise I call vaporware

  17. Easy graphical interface by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Caldera Linux setup system was so easy graphical interface when other Linux distributions were still using the command prompt: type number 1 to select keyboard and so on. And Dr-DOS on a floppy disk with a web browser claiming to be the most secure way to browse the Internet by using Dr DOS on a Floppy disk with a web browser. I used to really like their staff very professional.. I used Dr-DOS for such a long time. I think the passing of time can make things seem better than they really were I would spend all day every day putting Dr-DOS on computer systems stupid floppy disks disk error fucking things. Olivetti computer floppy disk drives would squeak and make such a lot of noise.

  18. Junk Patent? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think they're trying to patent software defined radio in general. Centralisation is not exactly a novel feature.

    Does anyone at the Patent office actually know anything?

  19. I've seen this too in new system buys by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    in add/remove i've seen mesh/packet networking software installed in system(s) which have never been powered on before by the buyer. not talking about 'refurbished' deals.

  20. stop giving credit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Facebook is actively developing"

    No, they bought out someone who was working on... big diff. This will never see the light of day. Dumb billionaires love throwing money around on stuff they don't understand.

  21. very good information by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    hi, its really amazing information, get an ideas for my website
    and for free books
    thanks

  22. Centralised by Viol8 · · Score: 1

    Its only centralized with a 'z' if you're american or canadian. The rest of the english speaking world uses an 's'. So you might want to check your facts first before you pull someone up on their spelling.

    1. Re:Centralised by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      Both are valid. You needn't take such things so seriously...

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
  23. Gee... I wonder if it will be censored... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In other words, a Jew will totally control what information billions of people can read... what could possibly go wrong?

  24. Just connect WiFi routers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And if Linksys,Belkin, and other WiFi makers would have let neighbors connect routers together easily to form a mesh to share cached data, internet connections and files we would have this already. If we could run fiber optic lines between neighbors and new houses were pre-wired, we could have a big decentralized network by now.

    But, nope. Put passwords on all routers and keep paying the ISPs hundreds of dollars a year.

    All the people upset at what Snowden reveled did it to themselves by being paranoid about people getting on to their WiFi at home.

  25. I grant it my limited approval by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is pretty cool. It seems similar in style to Radiant Networks's 20 - 30 GHz system in the 1990s. It had building rooftop nodes with about four small motorized dishes, and a central controller to aim them.

      https://www.google.com/patents/EP0999717A2

    Using modern radios with MIMO aiming instead of motorized-dish aiming makes such a system more fun to think about because individual packets can be aimed, and you can explore different aimings, and the aiming is now weird math and kaleidoscope patterns, not just a 1-dimensional rotation angle.

    But some of it is goofy. For example, this:

    "The network uses two levels of synchronization. Coarse synch using GPS to a nominal of 100 nanoseconds and a fine synch that using signaling between units. Sub nets are synchronized in the cloud and their transmit, receive, and beam pointing along the edges of subnets is coordinated and synchronized."

    time sync "in the cloud"? wat? They seem to punt everything they're too stupid to build into "the cloud." What's left is just modern radio buzzwords strung together. It looks childish next to Radiant's patents.

    secondly, MIMO is affordable and millimeter-wave is affordable, but I'm not sure both are possible. Remember, millimeter-wave means a half-millimeter of wire is 180 degrees phase shift, and MIMO works by broadcasting the same signal from two or more antennas at different phase shifts between 0 - 180. Asking for both buzzwords at once may drive this into military-radar price range or make it impossible.

    I only skimmed so there are probably other gotchya's. but I liked Radiant's idea, and I like this.