Slashdot Mirror


Why Winners Become Cheaters (washingtonpost.com)

JoeyRox writes: A new study from the Hebrew University of Jerusalem reveals a paradoxical aspect of human behavior — people who win in competitive situations are more likely to cheat in the future. In one experiment, 86 students were split up into pairs and competed in a game where cheating was impossible. The students were then rearranged into new pairs to play a second game where cheating was possible. The result? Students who won the first game were much more likely to cheat at the second game. Additional experiments indicated that cheating was also more likely if students simply recalled a memory of winning in the past. The experiments further demonstrated that subsequent cheating was more likely in situations where the outcome of previous competitions was determined by merit rather than luck.

40 of 174 comments (clear)

  1. Makes sense by tsotha · · Score: 5, Insightful

    That makes sense to me. If you win something based on merit it becomes part of your identity. "I'm a fast runner" or "I'm good at math." That will put you under pressure (internal and external) to make sure it happens.

    1. Re:Makes sense by invictusvoyd · · Score: 2

      True but going by that logic , "he cheated and was disqualified" would be far more disastrous than "he lost this time"

    2. Re:Makes sense by tsotha · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yes, but I doubt many cheaters expect to get caught.

    3. Re:Makes sense by Sique · · Score: 4, Insightful
      It is more complicated than that. It's not "I'm a fast runner", that seems to trigger the cheating. It's the "I'm a faster runner than others". In the article at the Washington Post, there is a description of the experimental set-up. Games that are a battle against yourself (like a trivia game or playing the lottery) don't let people cheat afterwards. Games that are a battle against an opponent do.

      It seems the experience of winning against someone else which causes you to feel entitled and to cheat the next time to ensure your next win. And then you get into a spiral of cheating, winning, cheating, winning etc.pp., we know so well from professional sports or successful businessmen with shady ethics.

      --
      .sig: Sique *sigh*
    4. Re:Makes sense by Archtech · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Or, to put it another way, winning can be addictive. That makes very good sense.

      --
      I am sure that there are many other solipsists out there.
    5. Re:Makes sense by jafiwam · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This is how politicians seem to work. It's how big businesses seem to work. This research may be very important in the long run.

    6. Re: Makes sense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Apply this to why the rich get richer. Once they attain the means to cheat, they do and it becomes their main MO.

    7. Re:Makes sense by Opportunist · · Score: 3, Funny

      You think that's a downer? Imagine what "I cheated and STILL lost" could do to your ego.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    8. Re:Makes sense by alvinrod · · Score: 4, Insightful

      People are just horrible at fully imagining all of the negative consequences of their actions. We tend to have an optimistic view and tunnel in on how greats things will be when everything goes according to plan instead of thinking about all of the ways our plans might fail. It's a large part of the reason why things are rarely done on time or within budget.

    9. Re:Makes sense by CastrTroy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This sounds like why there are also so many bugs in software. I find that the more I learn about software development, the more difficult everything becomes. Once you start thinking about all the edge cases, and how many ways there are for something to break, every project becomes more difficult. Designing software is like designing a bridge, except you have to worry about how your bridge performs when people decide drive over it backwards. Somehow it will end up being the designer's fault when something goes terribly wrong. If I could just design a web application without worrying about how people are going to try to find security holes and steal all the data I would be a happy man. Does the guy who designs bridges have to make considerations to ensure it can't be attacked by terrorists?

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    10. Re:Makes sense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It's important, but it's also rather depressing. Competition is the premise upon which the entirety of US society is built upon, and the study suggests that it inexorably leads to rigged results in favor of the few on top. The current state of the country supports this, but it's sad to think that this is not a flaw of the system, but rather an inevitable conclusion from it.

    11. Re:Makes sense by stabiesoft · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Ah, but that is in our current world of consequences. Example, a friend is a teacher. Recently, a girl pulled a knife on another girl and threatened to slice her neck. Punishment = 2 day suspension. He jokingly said if she would have killed her that would have up'ed it to a 4 day suspension. So when I was in school, knife = expulsion. Another example, a pregnant girl disappeared when I was in school and may or may not have returned due to shame. Now, again, my friend is a teacher and I could not believe it, but now, the class will often go en mass to the hospital after delivery to have a party for the young mother. Oh, and of course child care at the school. So we went from shame to be a pregnant high school girl to lets have a party, and I have my badge of honor. Guess what, more high school moms. Who would have thought?

    12. Re:Makes sense by jellomizer · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Because if cheating is done right, it is hard to proove. Most competitions allow a degree of "Failure" in the game. So if you are running a race, while you are not suppose to come in contact with the person you are racing with. However most judges will not be hardass enough to discredit an accidental hit. However if you are going to cheat, you may "Accidentally" hit your biggest threat just to get him off his stride.

      Now this is cheating, however it is hard to prove.
      That and sportsmanship lesson one, was to publically not be a sore loser. So saying he cheated is often the call of a sore loser.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    13. Re:Makes sense by Megol · · Score: 2

      So if I read you correctly you prefer the "good-old times" when getting pregnant out of wedlock meant a lifetime of shame?
      And your other example looks like an exceptional event, in most cases something like would lead to long time suspension, most likely expulsion and entry into the criminal or social services.
       

    14. Re:Makes sense by turbidostato · · Score: 2

      "This sounds like why there are also so many bugs in software. I find that the more I learn about software development, the more difficult everything becomes."

      Related, but not exactly that.

      Our mind tends to look for goals and then focus on the goals as is a great way to have things done (reaching food, escaping from a predator, mating...).

      When this tendency is applied to software you have developers focusing in the happy path for the requested feature (the goal) thinking they'll come back to the petty details once they have something working. Now, pair it with a manager working exactly in the same mood (focusing on the requested feature to be in the wild, and then the next, and the next after that) and you'll understand why the corner cases, documentation, etc. get never done.

      In fact, this human tendency is so strong that not even the developers, which are the more "rational" part in the equation have been able to reach the obvious conclusion to all their pains: leave the happy path till the end and you'll never have a manager pushing your mock-up without proper error checking, logging, documentation and what not into production again.

  2. Well yeah by EmeraldBot · · Score: 2

    If you get really good at something, or have a lot of success, you are proud of yourself and define yourself for it. When faced with losing, you're much more motivated to cheat to win because it's more important to you than it would be if you had lost and presumed that it's not your thing, hence not caring nearly as much about it.

    --
    "Set a man a fire, he'll be warm for the rest of the night. Set a man afire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life."
    1. Re:Well yeah by unrtst · · Score: 2

      We may be reading into this too much.
      Maybe those who win more often are simply better at finding ways to achieve the goal of winning - including cheating. Something like taking a shortcut through a maze where a small corner is left open. If it's possible to cheat, maybe the game was designed with that in mind (ex. bluffing in poker, or bidding in spades, etc).

    2. Re:Well yeah by arth1 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I agree with this.
      Winning one-on-one competitions is an individual skill. So is cheating. Following rules is a cooperative or social skill.
      As a hunter, cheating is a valuable skill. It doesn't matter whether you catch the game by being better, or by cheating, e.g. with a snare. When you and the other hunter aren't going to share, i.e. it's a competition, what matters is that you win. Preferably every time. If your competitor's family starves, that's a win for your offspring.

      If hunting together, the situation becomes different. Team sports may yield different results.

      Also - what is the consequence of being caught? I would think that winners of any game that requires thinking would favor those with a rational mind. Who would also be the ones to factor in the cost of getting caught. If that is zero, well, what is the advantage to not cheating?

  3. Maybe winning is adictive by istartedi · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Winning is a natural high, right? People steal to get high. Why not cheat?

    --
    For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
  4. Applies to college students only by mveloso · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Like a whole bunch of psychological studies, it only applies to college students who incur no costs.

    1. Re:Applies to college students only by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Like many psychological studies, I'd like to see the results replicated in different countries and different settings.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    2. Re:Applies to college students only by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Several African cultures practice backdoor polygamy, a built-in form of cheating.

      This is why you should consider several cultures. Other languages might have separate words for cheating in a game and cheating in a relationship. The usage of cheating for both is fairly specific to English I would think.
      In my native language it would be very unnatural to even bring up cheating in a relationship together with cheating in a game. They are two completely different concepts that has completely different words.

  5. Bernie Madoff by EmperorOfCanada · · Score: 4, Interesting

    From what I read Bernie Madoff had a compulsion for consistency. When he played golf (and he was pretty good) he would apparently turn in an 80 every time. So I suspect that the vagaries of the market just went against his grain. This then begs the question. Did he run a Ponzi scheme because he was a crook, or did he pretty much have the wrong compulsion for the wrong industry.

    I am pretty sure that I see this in other areas. For instance I was at an industrial company some years ago where an IT guy cut himself on the inside of a computer to the point where it may or may not have needed stitches. The company people freaked out. They were hinting that they would even bribe him not to report it. This got my curiosity going thinking that this injury would cause their worker's compensation rates to go up, or that it would spawn some kind of outsized investigation, but then a secratary said something like, "No, Dougie is obsessed with the fact that it has been 400 days accident free." I asked if that were true and she said it wasn't and that now for any minor injury he would hand out a week's vacation to not report it. So there was a huge sign that said 400 days accident free and everyone knew it was a lie except for Dougie's superiors.

    So like most things in life I suspect that most people lie somewhere on a spectrum ranging from, "I couldn't give a shit about cheating, to, look at me the most consistent winner in the universe."

    So while Madoff might have been scared that a bad report would result in fewer sales and higher redemptions, it was probably a situation where he would feel that he had somehow personally failed if he were to have to say that this year was 11% instead of 12%.

    1. Re:Bernie Madoff by EmperorOfCanada · · Score: 4, Insightful

      To understand the why can improve detection and prevention. A different ponzi scheme from the same time frame, Stanford, smells more like old fashioned greed. I have talked with Enron people and they told me that there was this insane culture of WIN. Apparently a huge amount of time was spent doing sporty things that were competitive. They both were driven to compete at all levels, but also hired and promoted people who were driven to win. So while greed and broken moral compasses were at work there, they were pushed to take risks so that they could be winners. Risks as in things with prison as a penalty, not just financial risks.

      So detecting and preventing Madoff, Stanford, and Enron from both the perspective of regulators and investors it is good to understand the stories behind these goons.

      This is why I love science articles like the above. They both help shape my world view and can confirm/refute some observations that I have made.

      For instance an interesting one that I have seen is when people have regular access to insider information and make many successful trades, they tend to delude themselves into thinking that they are great traders. Then when the inside information supply dries up they often continue to trade with the same apparent reckless abandon that was previously supported by ill-gotten information. The consequences are pretty straightforward.

    2. Re:Bernie Madoff by Archtech · · Score: 2

      Madoff is a crook. It doesn't matter what his motivation was, he didn't have a moral compass pointing north. You're wasting your time trying to explain his crimes.

      It seems to me that invocation of the "moral compass" rather tends to extinguish debate than to cast any light. The phrase carries with it a whole mass of assumptions, some of them very questionable. To name just one, a normal compass always points North (more or less). So the term "moral compass" strongly suggests that people have an inbuilt moral sense that always, unvaryingly, points in the same direction - regardless of time, place, culture, circumstances, etc. That is simply not the case.

      Moreover, to say that "Madoff is a crook... he didn't have a moral compass pointing north" actually DOES beg the question. It doesn't really explain anything, as we are simply left wondering WHY "he didn't have a moral compass pointing north".

      --
      I am sure that there are many other solipsists out there.
    3. Re:Bernie Madoff by operagost · · Score: 2

      Too many still have a cartoon version of morality, with the top-hatted, moustache-twirling villain. They focus on punishing evildoers, rather than prevention and rehabilitation. Maybe that's why we have so many people in prison.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
  6. Be Skeptical of Priming Studies by dcollins · · Score: 5, Informative

    Remember: "Priming studies" (like here: being reminded of prior winning makes you more like to cheat) are notorious for showing anything under the sun and then failing to be reproducible later.

    Nobel laureate Daniel Kahneman called priming studies the "poster child for doubts about the integrity of psychological research":

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priming_%28psychology%29#Criticism

    In the Many Labs Replication Project, the two "priming studies" landed at the very bottom, showing no evidence of any real effect in the replication trials:

    https://osf.io/wx7ck/

    --
    We know where leadership by an anti-intellectual "strongman" who scapegoats minorities and likes boisterous rallies goes
    1. Re:Be Skeptical of Priming Studies by JoeyRox · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Are you saying the fact that the two games were run sequentially is itself priming the outcome of the second game? Or are you referring specifically to the other experiment where students were asked to think about a past winning experience?

      The question the experiment was designed to answer was "Are winner's of previous competitions more likely to cheat in subsequent competitions?". How can a controlled study be conducted to answer this question unless the subjects are subjected to winning (and losing)? And if this cheating inclination does occur outside the confines of this experiment what's different in the real world vs the experiment? The period of time that elapses between winning one competition and competing in another?

    2. Re:Be Skeptical of Priming Studies by Daetrin · · Score: 2

      It's certainly not a perfect control, but it would be interesting if they ran the tests in the reverse order.

      If in that "control" there was no correlation between the people who cheated in the first round and those who won in the second round, particularly if the amount of cheating in the "control" was less than the non-control, you could make an argument that winning in the first round of the non-control was what caused the increase in cheating of the second round of the non-control.

      For that matter it would also be useful to have a third group that played two rounds with cheating available in both rounds. Would the total amount of cheating increase or decrease between rounds? Would the same people cheat both times, or would it vary based on how well they did in the first round, or would it be totally random?

      --
      This Space Intentionally Left Blank
  7. Intelligence by Xenna · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Perhaps it's just a matter of intelligence. The first game was won by the smart players. In the second game the smart ones saw the cheating opportunity and took it (perhaps even correctly deducig that that was the point of the experiment).

    The stupid players saw no opportunity and no point.

    So the experiment is interesting but the conclusions could be all wrong,..

  8. Good explanation by no-body · · Score: 2

    for corruption and crime happening in the "more successful" layers in a population.

    Since it's a trait, hard to come by, isn't it?

  9. From personal experience... by Nabeel_co · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I can say that I've noticed this desire in myself, although never acted on it... But in games where I know I have a skill advantage, and have won before, the temptation to cheat, as a short cut measure, becomes strong. The mentality is one of "well, I know I'm capable of getting to that point, so is it really cheating if I just skip to that part?" Yes, yes it is. And I have to remind myself of that each. freaking. time.

    I thought It was just me, but it turns out to be human nature I guess?

    1. Re:From personal experience... by DigiShaman · · Score: 2

      Human are apex predators. In nature, "cheating" doesn't exist as it's a moral construct. But for the last part of our relatively long evolutionary period, we've found strength in numbers. We've become civilized. We understand game theory. In that, cheating has caustic social consequences in the long term that we've as a society have shunned.

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
  10. Worse: it's reporting bias by martin-boundary · · Score: 4, Interesting
    This paper is a clear candidate for reporting bias.

    Reporting bias occurs when the opposite result isn't ever reported. So you either see an article or you don't. If you see the article, that's because the result was "surprising". If you don't see the article, that's because it wasn't "interesting".

    Trouble is, every possible result, no matter how "surprising", can occur just by chance if you do enough experiments, even if the truth isn't "interesting". Statistics works like that.

    So if you keep doing all sorts of different experiments until you find one that randomly happens to look "surprising", then publish it, but never talk about all the other experimental ideas that didn't pan out, you've got yourself a case of reporting bias.

    Ask yourself this: what legitimate scientific question is being answered here, and what journal and media outlets are likely to publish the opposite finding?

  11. cause or effect? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    They should have made also an experiment changing the order. That is, play the game where palyers can cheat, first, and the game where they can't cheat, second.

    Maybe the results would be "The ones who cheat in the first game also win in the second game where cheating is impossible".

    My theory is that skillful persons find ways to win playing by the rules, where cheating is just rules with certain risk–benefit ratio. They will find out all the rules, legal and cheating, and the best way to use both.

    That's my theory, but I need the experiment above to verify it ;-)

  12. Oh, very interesting by GeekWithAKnife · · Score: 2


    So some students with nothing to lose and no real life consequences decided to cheat in a study?

    Maybe the first batch were clever enough to win that particular game and as they have already won (nothing) got bored and chose an alternative while those that lost still pursued a valid way to win?

    It may be worth noting that people eventually graduate or leave college (or are expelled) and grow up eg. mature. Maybe less mature individuals are more likely to more??

    I too conduct a test. In the first phase I gave slashdot readers a grade study to dissect. Those who dissected the study in the first phase were more likely to make toilet paper out of it in the second stage. Headline: this study shows that slashdot readers are more likely to steal and vandalise because they cannot afford toilet paper.

    My conclusion? this just proves that low grade studies are first read and in the second stage transformed to being useful in the form of toilet paper. Maybe that means I'm a winner?!

    --
    A 'singular oddity' is an event that cannot be explained and only happens when you are alone.
  13. winners are cheaters? by l3v1 · · Score: 2

    "Why Winners Become Cheaters" - well, because losers say so? Because losers hate the thought some can actually get ahead based on merit, knowledge and/or perseverence? Ehh.

    Cheating cmes from several sources: one can't perform any other way (it happens, some barriers have a certain height for a reason); one thinks it's the easiest way (but has several drawbacks and risks that most cheaters don't always realize); one is so much afraid of failure that sees cheating the only certain way to succeed (which if of course bull, but it's a legitimate vause of cheating).

    But trying to prove that winners will eventually turn into cheaters, because they're winners, well, that's just so sad it's beyond pityful.

    --
    I am putting myself to the fullest possible use, which is all I can think that any conscious entity can ever hope to do.
  14. Re:Lance Armstrong by HornWumpus · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Competitive cycling, cross country skiing and biathlon are exceptions. Cheating is required to be competitive.

    I recall one Olympic where the results in cross country skiing were overturned after the samples were retested using new tests to find 'undetectable' steroids. The gold medal went to the guy who crossed the finish line almost last. The Silver went to last place. They didn't give a bronze. All the earlier finishers (and some later ones) having been disqualified.

    --
    John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  15. Winners cheat, and cheaters win by russotto · · Score: 2

    Once you realize that the arbitrary rules imposed on many compettive endeavors are placed there by people with certain skills in order to make sure people with those skills succeed (that is, to keep themselves on top), "cheating" becomes only natural.

    Furthermore, if you look around and discover that everyone who is winning is cheating, you might consider that the rules aren't meant to be followed; rather, they are intended to weed out the chumps who follow the rules (as well as those who lack the skill to avoid being caught).

  16. Re:NCAA by david_thornley · · Score: 2

    Perhaps the most amazing thing the NCAA has managed to pull off is to get people to think that it's actually immoral for the people out there doing the work and taking the risks to be paid.

    --
    "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes