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Neuroscientists Detail How Humans Are Able To Hurt Others When Given Orders (universityherald.com)

Posted by yaelk on from the it-wasnt-me dept.

Ever wonder how seemingly normal people were able to become Nazis and commit such atrocities? A team of neuroscientists studied just that, following the Milgram experiment conducted in the 1960s. Published in the journal Current Biology, this new study explains that "some basic feeling of responsibility really is reduced when we are coerced into doing something." The results indicate that humans are able to hurt each other when given orders.

11 of 162 comments (clear)

  1. Ever wonder how seemingly normal people... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Ever wonder how seemingly normal people were able to become Nazis and commit such atrocities?

    They were just trying to make Germany great again.

    1. Re:Ever wonder how seemingly normal people... by tnk1 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Ever wonder how seemingly normal people were able to become Nazis and commit such atrocities?

      They were just trying to make Germany great again.

      Actually, for many, this sort of hits it right on the head. The "Backstab" legend and the targeting of communists and other groups perceived to be fifth columnists like Jews, was a major popular idea about how Germany lost a war that they seemed to not be losing in 1918. Having gone from the military power that flattened France and Austria-Hungary a few decades past, to a power that somehow lost the war without it reaching German soil was incomprehensible to the German population and the people involved in the German Armed Forces in particular.

      (In defense of the people who didn't like communists, the Communists actually were trying to take over after the war, although it is hard to say who were the bigger assholes: the Communists or the Freikorps.)

      So there is a parallel, although I'd point out that the US may not be perfect right now, but we're still the world's lone superpower, so it's not like we're not currently "great". Embattled, yes, but in the same place as Weimar Germany? Absolutely not.

      Of course, facts don't always matter as much as they should. If you could somehow convince Americans, despite the evidence, that we are not great, and that we should be great again, you could generate a movement like this again.

    2. Re:Ever wonder how seemingly normal people... by tnk1 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      There is that, but I would remind you that there are always people like this.

      Trump does frighten me a little bit, because he is hitting some of the same notes. I don't think he's going to win even the primary, however.

      The Right will come around eventually when they realize that the government does not have to reflect their own personal beliefs.

      However, the "progressives" need to remain careful that they do not attempt to force the government to truly cause those people to do things against their conscience. I know it is considered somewhat rustic to not be in love with things like abortion on demand, for instance, but this is a very serious thing for people who have trouble accepting that a fetus or embryo is not a person.

      As for gay marriage, if you want to say that the State has every right to define something like Civil Marriage, then I think you're on very solid ground constitutionally. If it starts moving towards forcing people to have to be happy about it... it starts to become more like the state telling you what to believe. And if the state goes down that road too fast, you could empower someone like Trump, or someone worse.

      Conservatives are not marked necessarily by wanting to not progress, they're marked by requiring a more deliberate pace. As long as we understand that pacing, we should be able to move forward without insurrection.

    3. Re:Ever wonder how seemingly normal people... by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Trump does frighten me a little bit, because he is hitting some of the same notes. I don't think he's going to win even the primary, however.

      Trump, the guy who is going to tell the world to get in line, anad do it by force of will. Yet he can't even stand up to Megan Kelly. She asks him some pointed and very good questions, and he runs away. Just one more ChickenHawk with an accent on the Chicken

      Conservatives are not marked necessarily by wanting to not progress, they're marked by requiring a more deliberate pace. As long as we understand that pacing, we should be able to move forward without insurrection.

      Barry Goldwater - one of my heros, along with Yogi Berra. We need a reincarnation of Barry.

      One of my favorite quotes by Barry, and one that is chillingly accurate, and reflects the present day state of the party:

      “Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them.”

      And Good buddy Yogi once said - and there is a connection!:

      If the world were perfect, it wouldn’t be.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    4. Re:Ever wonder how seemingly normal people... by Evtim · · Score: 3, Interesting

      What is the root of such behavior? I have only one data point to share - a conversation with retired middle class Republican gentleman in a plain flying to the US. I was telling him about all those "controversial" liberties the Dutch enjoy and he asked me "then why did you go living there?" "Because I wanted to have those liberties in case I needed them [personally I meant the euthanasia and the coffee shops; hopefully I won't have to use the services of the ladies of negotiable affection for a while longer]" .
      He looked rather surprised by that answer and said "this can never happen in US". "Why?" "Because we are large country with diverse population so someone will always be against those liberties". "So, what IS the problem - in NL not everyone agrees with those either?"
      At the end it was clear that he could not accept the idea of choice [! weird form a member of allegedly the freest society in the world]. Having a possibility of abortion does not mean YOU have to do it - I tried again and again but no...the man would not accept the possibility that other people would do something that he considers wrong. So better ban the whole thing. Period.

      BTW, at the very end he said [it's true, I swear] "Never come to the US, you are too liberal for it. Go to Canada." I replied "Thanks, I had come to the same conclusion already".

  2. Nazis by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Why are the examples always nazis? How about "Ever wonder how seemingly normal people were able to become communists and commit such atrocities?" The communists killed far more than nazis.

    1. Re:Nazis by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Because the "communist" (actually socialist) massive PR machine managed to disassociate the German National Socialist Party from other socialism related political factions in the minds of the general American populace.

      Now that that specific branch of socialist theory has been severed from the greater socialist efforts, and crushed to truly insignificant membership, it can be acceptably labelled the greatest evil ever.

      In defense of the other socialists (that's something I'm surprised to type), the Nazis did take a really sick angle to the concept of redistributing wealth. "Jewish bankers have too much money, kill all Jews." "Romanian nomadic families are stealing money from hard-working Germans, kill all Gypsies." "Homosexual behavior wastes energy that could be spent breeding more Germans or at least building weapons for other Germans, kill all homosexuals." I'm sure there were more victim demographics, but those are the big three that people talk about. Most other violent socialist factions "just" slaughter people who disagree with the new government.

    2. Re:Nazis by david_thornley · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Because, after the mid-30s, the National Socialist Party was about as socialist as modern Republicans. The party started with people who were more nationalist and people who were more socialist, and the socialist wing was removed from the Party with extreme prejudice not too long after Hitler took power. Hitler hated to change propaganda principles once used (he mentions it in Mein Kampf), and besides having a pretense of Socialism was useful. It continues to fool ideological idiots to this day.

      The Nazis weren't out after wealth distribution when they megamurdered some classes. The Rom didn't have enough money to be worth killing for, really, as did the Slavs in general. The Nazis primarily wanted to purify the race, although they were not reluctant at all to get what loot they could from the undesirables they killed.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  3. Well, yeah ... by gstoddart · · Score: 3, Interesting

    On things far less important than this ... how many of us have said to the boss "No, that's a stupid idea", only to be cajoled ... and how many times has "OK, send me an email demanding this" ... you forced me to do it, you authorized it, I no longer give a damn about the outcome.

    Now, it's all well and good to say it's obvious ... but if you've objected, been over-ruled, and possibly told you'd have some consequences if you didn't comply ... I can see how the brain is wired to say "fuck it, that's not on me".

    I mean, armies train people to be more willing to kill people ... why would anybody be surprised when they actually do it? You've pretty much been told to surrender the authority for certain kinds of moral judgement up the chain of command.

    As so often happens, it's common sense after someone actually explains it. :-P

    --
    Lost at C:>. Found at C.
  4. Ok, and? by Nidi62 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's the same mechanism that leads to riots and other similar phenomena: people lose their sense of personal responsibility. In riots people who would normally not even think about looting or destroying property will happily participate when in a large crowd because they aren't responsible for it, the crowd is. It's the same in this case: it is the person giving the order that is responsible, not the person actually committing the ordered action.

    Now, granted, in many cases of atrocities (think Holocaust, ISIS, and child soldiers in Africa), those involved have also been affected by some form of conditioning or other coercion. Quite often this begins at an early age because children are impressionable, but it can easily be accomplished on older individuals by tapping into a sense of frustration/disillusionment/anger and exploiting it, often by using the intended targets of the atrocity as the scapegoat for those feelings.

    --
    The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
  5. plenty of data available in the military by Khashishi · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Tell the neuroscientists to go study drone operators ordered to bomb hospitals and schools.