Slashdot Mirror


Judge Slams Anthem, Rules That Breach Constitutes Harm To Customers (digitalguardian.com)

chicksdaddy writes: You would think that the "damages" caused by massive online thefts, like those leveled against Target, Home Depot and Anthem Healthcare are self evident. But companies are arguing hard that they can't be sued for damages resulting from data breaches, because the "victims" can't show that they were harmed by the theft. That was the case back in June, when lawyers for Home Depot filed a motion to have a case linked to the compromise at that company dropped. The case was brought by customers whose data was stolen in the attack, but Home Depot's attorneys argued that those customers couldn't prove that they were harmed by the theft of their credit card information. Now a judge in San Francisco has dealt a blow to would-be defendants in a case against Anthem. In an opinion released on Sunday, U.S. District Judge Lucy Koh found that the loss of personal information in the breach of Anthem constitutes harm under New York's General Business Law. The ruling rejected arguments from Anthem and its lawyers that no direct harm resulted from the breach, which was first disclosed in February 2015. In her decision in the Anthem case, Koh reasoned that the theft of personal identification information is harm to consumers in itself, regardless of whether any subsequent misuse of it can be proven. Allegations of a "concrete and imminent threat of future harm" are enough to establish an injury and standing in the early stages of a breach suit, she said.

23 of 92 comments (clear)

  1. Koh for Supreme Court by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    She has a decent clue about technology and law unlike 99% of all other judges/lawyers.

    1. Re:Koh for Supreme Court by Gr8Apes · · Score: 3, Informative

      She's only been a judge since 2008

      So what? According to that bio she has a lot of related experience. Apparently GP isn't the only one to think so. I don't think she needs any more "experience" any more than Scalia did when he was nominated at 49.

      --
      The cesspool just got a check and balance.
    2. Re:Koh for Supreme Court by whoever57 · · Score: 4, Informative

      The issue is not about whether breach of personal info would harm individuals whose info belong to, it is how much DAMAGE it is.

      I think that you are 100% wrong here. In order to proceed with a lawsuit, you have to show that you have standing. Without harm (any amount of damages), you don't have standing to sue. So this ruling is NOT about how much, instead it is about if ANY harm occurred.

      --
      The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
    3. Re:Koh for Supreme Court by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The issue is not about whether breach of personal info would harm individuals whose info belong to, it is how much DAMAGE it is.

      Another issue is culpability. Sure, these companies should be held responsible. But some of the responsibility should also go onto the financial institutions that created the system where mere knowledge of a CC number or SSN allows a criminal to access accounts. It should be illegal to use SSNs to authenticate identity, and CCs should all have passwords/PINs so the numbers on the card are not sufficient to make a charge. We should fix the underlying problem, rather than just punishing the inevitable breaches. Harsh penalties for breaches encourage more companies to attempt a coverup.

    4. Re: Koh for Supreme Court by BlckAdder · · Score: 4, Informative

      Judge Koh is already in line for a nomination to the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, which will probably happen this month. Not to say that couldn't be pulled in favor of a Supreme Court nomination, but it's pretty unlikely.

    5. Re:Koh for Supreme Court by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The Supreme Court just granted standing to states and companies to put a hold on enforcement of a new EPA regulation, a massive one about power plant emissions.

      There was the same argument -- no standing because you don't have to spend money yet. Except that in a previous similar case, companies spent tens of billions preparing for a new regulation that ultimately got overturned. Worse, the EPA bragged, "Haha made you spend money and implement the regulation anyway!" on its web site.

      Supreme Court: Well, if you're gonna be assholes about it...

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    6. Re:Koh for Supreme Court by macs4all · · Score: 2

      However, no one (and I believe by laws) can simply place a damage value on to this kind of harm.

      Nonsense. It's done all the time.

      Sometimes, especially when a wrong is fairly egregious, but the actual damages are difficult or impossible to calculate, a Judge will award a "nominal damage" amount to the claimant. Usually, the sum is somewhere between $1 and $1,000.

    7. Re:Koh for Supreme Court by Locke2005 · · Score: 2

      The banks have a worse problem than that. Do you realize that _anybody_ that knows your checking account number (i.e. anybody you've ever written a check to) can do an electronic funds transfer out of your account, no questions asked? I've had this done to me, and when I complained, my bank's response was, "You need to close your account."

      --
      I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
  2. Doh! Preventative measure COST. by redelm · · Score: 4, Insightful

    For once, some sense from the bench. A "reasonable person" upon learning their data had been stolen from someone who was supposed to keep it safe would then prudently take measures to detect and limit the damage if the data were misused. Things like subscribing to a monitoring service, replacing cards, increased statement monitoring. Admittedly, these are not that much cost, say US$100, but that is NOT zero.

  3. This is a great ruling by surfdaddy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...although I'm sure it iwll be contested. I was in the Home Depot breach, the Target breach, and the TMobile/Experian breach. My wife was in the Bebe breach. You have to figure your info is out there already for most people who don't live under a rock. These companies aren't going to take security seriously until they pay some consequences.

  4. Home Depot by PvtVoid · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I quit shopping at Home Depot after the time I ran into a cashier who insisted that I could not buy what was in my cart unless I supplied my zip code as part of the credit card transaction, despite having it explained to her that it is a violation of their merchant agreement, and in many states is also illegal. I left my shit in the shopping cart and left.

    I was utterly unsurprised to see that Home Depot got breached. I hope they have to pay out big.

    1. Re:Home Depot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      It's a cry for help. The cashier is making a blatantly illogical statement in the hopes that you will call them on it and break them out of the delusional worldview that their corporate HQ has imposed.

    2. Re:Home Depot by mrchaotica · · Score: 2

      I congratulate you for having successfully avoided '90s pop culture and therefore remaining ignorant of the zip code for Beverly Hills.

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    3. Re:Home Depot by radarskiy · · Score: 3

      So the banks rejected secret PINs to go along with the chip, but accept PINs that are publicly availble.

    4. Re:Home Depot by s1d3track3D · · Score: 2
      Doh! now that i've actually read TFA I will reply to myself -

      Are there any exceptions? If you swipe a card at a gas pump, you might get a prompt asking you for your ZIP code. This kind of transaction is generally exempt from laws about personal information, as are purchases that require delivery or installation, since the company needs to know where to send the package or technician.

      Sorry to waste your time

  5. Maybe It's Time to Evolve... by mlw4428 · · Score: 2

    ...from risk "acceptance" to risk mitigation and avoidance. Too long companies haven't been going that extra mile because, hey, it's cheaper to pay out for the 2--3 years of credit monitoring and letting customers spend hundreds of hours and potential legal/attorney/specialist fees to clean up the mess. When risk "acceptance" is saying "eh...3 million stolen IDs is cheaper than it would be to put serious effort into making it very hard to get those IDs from us" then we will NEVER be clear of this. I hope Anthem gets hit with billions in lawsuits and gets crippled. It'll serve as a nice warning to every other major company in the US that it's time to start taking security seriously or your businesses will start getting sunk.

  6. Re:Doh! Preventative measure COST. by Fallen+Kell · · Score: 5, Insightful

    For once, some sense from the bench. A "reasonable person" upon learning their data had been stolen from someone who was supposed to keep it safe would then prudently take measures to detect and limit the damage if the data were misused. Things like subscribing to a monitoring service, replacing cards, increased statement monitoring. Admittedly, these are not that much cost, say US$100, but that is NOT zero.

    But that is only a small fraction of the cost. The REAL cost is in the TIME it takes to deal with all those things. Time is money in corporate speak, and their lax security measures is now directly resulting in these affected people to invest hours of their time setting up new credit monitoring, reviewing all recent credit reports (and future ones), replace their cards, change passwords, etc. If they were like a corporation, they would even hire consultants and remediation teams and charge their costs as part of the cost to be made whole when they (the corporation) sues the people responsible (look at what the City of San Francisco included in the charges/lawsuit against Terry Childs).

    --
    We were all warned a long time ago that MS products sucked, remember the Magic 8 Ball said, "Outlook not so good"
  7. Judge Slams Anthem by Verdatum · · Score: 2, Funny

    Look, I dislike Ayn Rand as much as the next liberal my age, but I would hardly consider her novel, Anthem to be "harmful" to people who read it...

  8. Re:Jurisdiction? by Fallen+Kell · · Score: 4, Informative

    New York General Business Law may be an applicable controlling law in the case if one of the parties harmed lives there or if the contract agreement stated New York laws governed contract disputes.

    --
    We were all warned a long time ago that MS products sucked, remember the Magic 8 Ball said, "Outlook not so good"
  9. Re:I like this prescident by macs4all · · Score: 2

    Simple fix, Apple and Google can add a feature to their phone OSs where the user can turn on a security feature where if they don't enter their password every "xx" (set by user) days, the phone also auto-wipes....

    They do a somewhat similar thing on the iOS devices that have a touch-sensor.

    If you don't log-into such a device at least once every 48 hours (or after a power-cycle), you HAVE to use the Passcode (not the biometric sensor) to unlock the device.

    That is VERY significant, in that the Supreme Court has ruled that, while you CAN be forced to use your finger to unlock a device, you CANNOT be ordered to divulge (nor enter) a Passcode.

  10. Re:I like this prescident by macs4all · · Score: 2

    It is actually more simple than that. All they need to do is require the PIN to apply updates to the OS, rather than allowing automatic updates being pushed by Apple (or whomever)

    Already done. Where does it say that Apple can force-update an iOS (or any) of their devices?

  11. "Theft" by Caesar+Tjalbo · · Score: 2

    But companies are arguing hard that they can't be sued for damages resulting from data breaches, because the "victims" can't show that they were harmed by the theft.

    Maybe because nothing was stolen in the first place.

    --
    "I'm not much interested in interoperability. I want substitutability. I want to be able to throw your software out."
  12. I love these kinds of arguments by scdeimos · · Score: 2

    ...but Home Depot's attorneys argued that those customers couldn't prove that they were harmed by the theft of their credit card information.

    Well if that's the case then you won't mind defense counsel and all C-level officers of the company submitting an inventory of their full bank account and credit card information? Sure, such a submission would be on the public record... but you can't prove that any harm will come from it.