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Study: Mice Gain Weight In Cold Temperatures Due To Gut Changes (economist.com)

Beeftopia writes with the results of a study described in The Economist: Mice were separated into two groups, one temperature maintained at 6C, the other at 22C. Researchers expected the cold mice to lose weight as they burned stored fat to stay warm. And for the first few days they did. But after five to ten days, in spite of their rations not increasing, the cold mice begain to put on weight. When scientists examined the gut microbiome of the previously identical mice, they found they were radically different. Additionally, the intestine had grown villi 50% larger than those of the warm temperature mice. Finally, after transplanting the gut microflora into a new batch of aseptic mice kept at warm temperatures, those mice showed the increased insulin sensitivity, cold tolerance, and villi length of the cold mice.

132 comments

  1. I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from here by mrsam · · Score: 2

    Scratching my head here. What's the conclusion to be drawn, from these experiments? That if we don't want to gain weight, we should all move to Florida?

    1. Re:I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I think the takeaway points are that the body adjusts to the increased fat burn through multiple mechanisms. This includes the gut being supportive of different bacteria and changes in the structure of the small intestine. It's not too much unlike greatly cutting back on calories. If you do it once in awhile, you'll lose weight. But if you do it for a long period of time, the body adapts by slowing your metabolism. The result is when you increase caloric intake, you are likely to gain the weight back and then some. Living in colder conditions might have short term benefits from increased fat burn, if it's not prolonged.

    2. Re:I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from here by TWX · · Score: 1

      Actually yes. Not Florida specifically, but having extra body fat offers no biological advantage in a warm environment compared to a cold environment, all other things being equal.

      On the flip side, extra body fat can be advantageous in cold climates. The person with extra body fat may survive more comfortably in lower temperatures, or it might be the difference between living and dying if it's sufficiently cold.

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    3. Re:I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from here by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      That if we don't want to gain weight, we should all move to Florida?

      Uh, no. Southern Florida is supposed to be underwater in the next half-century.

    4. Re:I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from here by quantaman · · Score: 1

      I'm drawing two conclusions from this:

      1) Exposing yourself to cold doesn't seem to be a viable weight loss strategy. This actually makes sense since the best response to be being cold is adding insulation, either way trying to lose weight by making yourself cold is apparently a thing.

      2) Probiotics may be overrated. Its true they're really critical to regulating body weight but it looks like the body has already figured that out. As much as you're eating yogurt to push the culture one way your body may be trying to push it somewhere else.

      --
      I stole this Sig
    5. Re:I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from here by ls671 · · Score: 0

      I think the takeaway points are that the body adjusts to the increased fat burn through multiple mechanisms...

      Exactly, adaptation, evolution, mutations. Next subject please!

      --
      Everything I write is lies, read between the lines.
    6. Re:I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's the conclusion to be drawn, from these experiments?

      Researchers have finally found a fool-proof penis enlargement solution.

      those mice showed the increased ... villi length

      I can only assume that this was a misspelled willy? Because surely a specialized medical term would be explained in the summary?

    7. Re:I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from here by lpevey · · Score: 0

      Actually yes. Not Florida specifically, but having extra body fat offers no biological advantage in a warm environment compared to a cold environment, all other things being equal.

      BS, we all know weight gain is a simple matter of calories in versus calories out. /sarcasm

      Seriously, I know enough people who have weight struggles and literally try to starve themselves trying to lose weight. It's painful for me to watch. Meanwhile, I and others eat pretty much whatever we want, and while I'm not rail thin, I've never had a problem maintaining a healthy weight. It annoys me when sanctimonious people go on their "why don't they just eat better and exercise" rant. Maybe more studies like these will make people open their eyes. Obesity is more complicated than that.

    8. Re:I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from here by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 5, Informative

      What's the conclusion to be drawn, from these experiments? That if we don't want to gain weight, we should all move to Florida?

      How about: "The mouse gut bacteria that flourish in cold weather conditions signal the mouse to take more nutrition from the gut. They're throwing more of their own potential food supply to the mouse than the summer-time bugs, in order to keep their house intact and warm (rather than starved to death) over the winter months."

      Yet another instance of life forms involved in a symbiosis evolving better mutual-survival strategies.

      --
      Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
    9. Re:I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from here by 110010001000 · · Score: 4, Funny

      But it is a simple matter of calories in/out. The study even says so. They looked at the calorific value left in the faeces.

    10. Re:I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've often wondered if maybe, just maybe, the treatment that obese folks really need is a gut flora transplant from someone with an eats-anything-stays-thin metabolism. (Typically accomplished via stool transplant.)

      We hear more and more about just how important our microbiomes are, and it seems to me like that's what is really out of wack with folks who have weight difficulties. Heck, I saw in an article that your gut flora even leads to what kind of foods you crave (that when you get a stool transplant from someone, your food preferences change to match theirs).

    11. Re:I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from here by AK+Marc · · Score: 0, Troll

      The conclusion is, burning more calories increases weight. All the "it's thermodynamics" assholes are wrong.

    12. Re:I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from here by MDMurphy · · Score: 2

      I've wondered the same thing, but also is a "cure" for obesity good? Would it better for the world if people could eat more and not gain extra weight? Aren't people who can eat less and still put on weight actually more efficient? While I'd seen some similar studies, I'd like to know how this affects how much work you can do on a given caloric intake. While it would be nice if all of a sudden I could eat what I want and not gain weight, I can't help that thinking that doing so is not much different than binge and purge at a Roman feast.

      Maybe thin people in areas with less food availability should get transplants of gut flora from those who gain weight when eating less food?

    13. Re:I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from here by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      Uh, no. Southern Florida is supposed to be underwater in the next half-century.

      Well that sure explains all those millionaires buying up property in Florida, who knew they'd be buying into a worthless investment.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    14. Re:I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from here by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 2

      [...] who knew they'd be buying into a worthless investment.

      A smart speculator would look at the scientific data for rising water levels and buy worthless properties that will eventually become new water front properties.

    15. Re:I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from here by Cyberax · · Score: 2

      Yes, it's thermodynamics. The "warm-temperature" mice simply don't burn food as completely as the "cold-temperature" mice. If you restrict calorie intake further then they WILL lose weight.

    16. Re:I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from here by Mashiki · · Score: 0

      A smart speculator would look at the scientific data for rising water levels and buy worthless properties that will eventually become new water front properties.

      Which explains all of those ocean front purchases right? You know, like what happened along the US east coast in the 1980's and 90's when the "sea level will be 20ft higher" by 1990 and 2000'.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    17. Re:I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from here by 0111+1110 · · Score: 1

      As a final experiment the team added some A. muciniphila to the guts of the mice that had received transplants from cold-dwellers, to see how the bug's reintroduction would shape them. Remarkably, these mice started losing weight and, when the researchers examined their intestines two weeks later, they found that the villi had shrunk back to the size of those found in room-temperature mice.

      Probably that Akkermansia muciniphila may be a fruitful area of anti-obesity research and that someone who wants to lose weight may want to start breeding/eating A. muciniphila.

      --
      Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
    18. Re:I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from here by slashping · · Score: 1

      It's not worthless if you can sell the property to a bigger fool.

    19. Re:I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from here by slashping · · Score: 1

      You know, like what happened along the US east coast in the 1980's and 90's when the "sea level will be 20ft higher" by 1990 and 2000'.

      No, I don't know any scientific data from the 1980's and 90's that predicted a 2 ft/year sea level rise. Please add your references.

    20. Re:I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think the more interesting conclusion is that if we can identify some of the chemical signals that coordinate the villi-lengthening process, we can craft up a villi-lengthening-factor reuptake inhibitor. Then we'll have a medication for obesity.

    21. Re:I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from here by slashping · · Score: 2

      I know it's silly, but some people are interested in the details.

    22. Re:I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's Ok, the tubbos will float.

    23. Re:I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from here by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      binge and purge at a Roman feast

      That's a myth, by the way.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    24. Re:I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from here by Zorpheus · · Score: 1

      Thermodynamics is just a theory?
      Of course there is more, but thermodynamics surely is valid.

    25. Re:I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from here by Shawndeisi · · Score: 1

      Hopefully the cure for obesity would be more in the form of managing both satiety and metabolism properly. This would let obese people eat less, therefore remaining both efficient as well as healthy.

    26. Re:I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from here by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      It's a commonly stated myth that when they liberated Auschwitz there weren't any fatties.

      Of course there were - the guards.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    27. Re:I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from here by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1

      "That's a myth, by the way."

      The origin of which was mistranslation of the room labeled vomitorium in architecture diagrams of Roman villas and public structures. The term actually denoted an entry/exit lobby, "where people go out and in."

    28. Re:I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from here by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 2

      And I for one am not going to try the stool-flavored yogurt.

    29. Re:I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That airconditioning and HVAC systems induce weight gain in draft sensitive people :)

    30. Re:I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hopefully the cure for obesity would be more in the form of managing both satiety and metabolism properly. This would let obese people eat less, therefore remaining both efficient as well as healthy.

      I think they've shown that gut flora have a lot to do with leptin signaling, and thereby satiety.

      At this point, it sure seems like gut flora are involved to one degree or another in just about everything...

    31. Re:I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from here by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      The problem we have is that once someone becomes overweight something about their body changes. Hormones, gut bacteria, something makes it hard to regulate weight like a normal, unbroken human being does.

      Sure, ultimately it's calories in/calories out, but in practice it's not that easy for most people. If it were, we wouldn't have this problem on such a large scale.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    32. Re:I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Scratching my head here. What's the conclusion to be drawn, from these experiments? That if we don't want to gain weight, we should all move to Florida?

      The conclusion is obviously that global warming will solve obesity!

    33. Re:I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from here by User0x45 · · Score: 1

      Scratching my butt, while typing this response.

      The gut microbiome is the subject. The extent and breadth of it's impact on the human host is the study. External climate on the host effects the gut microbiome composition and the consequence is the result.

    34. Re:I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from here by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      No, I don't know any scientific data from the 1980's and 90's that predicted a 2 ft/year sea level rise. Please add your references.

      Al Gore made a comment that sea levels would rise 20 feet in his 2006 movie, "An Inconvenient Truth," that the global warming critics like to hype to death. Any comment by Al Gore should be taken with a hefty amount of sea salt.

      Some of the most memorable images from Al Gore's movie, An Inconvenient Truth, are the graphics that show how rising ocean levels will dramatically alter our planet's coastlines. As Greenland's ice sheets collapse, Gore predicts that our shores will be flooded and sea-bordering cities will sink beneath the water leaving millions of people homeless. His narration tells the audience that, due to global warming, melting ice could release enough water to cause at 20-foot rise in sea level "in the near future."

      http://scienceline.org/2008/12/ask-rettner-sea-level-rise-al-gore-an-inconvenient-truth/

    35. Re:I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from here by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      You know, like what happened along the US east coast in the 1980's and 90's when the "sea level will be 20ft higher" by 1990 and 2000'.

      As we say on the West Coast, "What are you smoking and where can I get some?"

    36. Re:I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The obvious conclusion is that global warming is the solution to the US obesity problem!

    37. Re:I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is if Greenland's ice all melted. There might be some tipping points that speed up the melt a lot faster than it is already going at. We might not realize it or be able to do anything to change it once the tundra starts to thaw, methane gets released, the dark ocean water absorbs more light and warms up, and it causes the jet stream and weather patterns to change. Like the polar vortex, but in reverse. All caused by CO2, S02, CH4 and other man-caused pollution trapping heat with the greenhouse effect, which is basic physics.

    38. Re:I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from here by AK+Marc · · Score: 0

      Nope. If you further reduce their caloric intake, their body will go into a starvation mode that will cause even more weight gain.

      Thermodynamics is never violated, but there isn't a practical way to measure the calories out of a person. Metabolic rates are different enough, and waste isn't easily measured.

      This experiment proved that if you burn more calories, you gain weight. Others have proven that if you eat fewer calories, you gain weight. So your statement has been proven false many times.

    39. Re:I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from here by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      Gravity is just a theory.

      Thermodynamics is never violated, but the "common sense" interpretation of it is false. That's not a thermodynamics violation, but a logic fail by everyone who uses a simple rule they don't even understand to try to understand a complex issue. Fewer calories drops a body into "starvation mode", and you gain weight by eating less (a violation of "thermodynamics" as understood by the idiots). And you gain weight by burning more calories (another violation from the "thermodynamics" idiots).

      The laws of thermodynamics are never violated, they are just beyond the understanding of anyone who cites thermodynamics in their fat shaming.

    40. Re:I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from here by HiThere · · Score: 1

      You left out "except at the extreme ends of the distribution".

      It's true that I once went on a week long water & vitamin pill fast and gained weight. But I doubt this would have happened if it had been a month long fast. Really.

      And if you'll notice US citizens tend to be heavier and fatter than starving Ethiopians. (I'm not sure that the famine is still happening there, and I acknowledge that it was largely caused by local politics, but it did happen, and the Ethiopians involved were mainly not involved in the machinations.) So amount of food eaten *IS* crucial near the extremes.

      In the middle, however, you are quite correct that there are lots of complex feedback loops, and simple explanations usually don't work.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    41. Re:I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from here by AK+Marc · · Score: 0

      Yes, if you hop in an oven at 600F, you'll burn lots of calories, and come out much lighter. But for the large middle section, where 99% of the population lives, metabolism and other poorly understood mechanisms dominate over the limits imposed by thermodynamics.

    42. Re:I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from here by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      As we say on the West Coast, "What are you smoking and where can I get some?"

      Why not ask the environmentalists that were parroting it in the 80's and 90's. David Suzuki and Al Gore are my favorites, especially since the media likes to claim that they're scientists.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    43. Re:I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from here by Cyberax · · Score: 1

      BS. If you don't feed them enough recoverable calories the mice WILL lose dry weight. There's no way around thermodynamics.

      And no, you can't gain weight by fasting on water and pills, except by retaining fluid.

    44. Re:I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from here by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      Cutting calories 10% can result in gaining weight. Increasing calories burned by 10% can result in gaining weight. Your understanding of thermodynamics is flawed.

    45. Re:I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from here by Cyberax · · Score: 1

      Sure. If you're eating 5000 calories a day (which is far, far more than required) then cutting calorie intake by 10% might cause you to gain weight. But if you cut the intake to 1000 calories - you WILL lose weight (assuming you're about an average size). No way around it.

    46. Re:I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Nope. If you further reduce their caloric intake, their body will go into a starvation mode that will cause even more weight gain.

      Until you reduce it enough to actually cause weight gain. The "starvation mode" is a real phenomenon, but when "really starving" you will still lose body mass.

      And yes, human waste can be and has been analyzed for remaining calories in limited experiments: it involves using a calorimeter, similar to those used to measure calories in normal food. It's just awkward and expensive to use for an extended period, and human experimental subjects tend to cheat.

    47. Re:I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from here by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      Al Gore made a comment that sea levels would rise 20 feet in his 2006 movie, "An Inconvenient Truth," that the global warming critics like to hype to death. Any comment by Al Gore should be taken with a hefty amount of sea salt.

      Just like the pro-agg like to make the claims "warmest weather since record keeping." Which in countries like Canada means 1970...most recent example? "Warmest weather in Waterloo, Ontario...since records started in 1967..."

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    48. Re:I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from here by RespekMyAthorati · · Score: 1

      That's OK.
      Swimming burns lots of calories.

    49. Re:I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from here by RespekMyAthorati · · Score: 1

      And you gain weight by burning more calories

      Any citations to support that?

    50. Re:I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from here by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      RTFA

    51. Re:I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from here by someoneOtherThanMe · · Score: 1

      Is a "cure" for pregnancy good? Is it a better world now when we can have sex and not gain extra babies?

  2. Explanations! by dohzer · · Score: 4, Funny

    This explains why I gain weight when pouring beer after cold beer into my gut.

    1. Re:Explanations! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm just glad it's not Yet Another something that Global Warming is responsible for.

  3. This is incredibly useful Sciency stuff. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is important stuff here!

    I tell you if i ever find myself being a mouse in the Antarctic region this will come in very handy thank you very much.

    Got anything for crocodiles in Florida? The weather is SO much nicer there.

  4. Gained weight despite unchanged diet by Beeftopia · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I found that interesting. Identical mice placed in different environments, on the same diets. One set gets fat, the other stays normal weight.

    Certainly obese humans should eat healthier and exercise, but perhaps it's not all moral failing that make them fatter than normal weight types.

    Also, something like this might suggest further areas of human research. Instead of just saying that the naturally skinny differ "in the genes", researchers might start investigating different subsystems, such as the digestive, to see how changes in them might mitigate weight gain.

    1. Re:Gained weight despite unchanged diet by Beeftopia · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's also paradoxical. Cold weather should speed up the metabolism, and thus, on the same diet, the organism should lose weight, not gain it. Yet the adaptation to gain fat to likely protect body temperature kicks in, generating changes in the digestive subsystem to achieve that end.

    2. Re:Gained weight despite unchanged diet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Obese people should also move and exercise in warmer climates to let their body build muscle mass instead of fat tissue with the constant energy intake, if this study applies to a human metabolism.

    3. Re:Gained weight despite unchanged diet by Livius · · Score: 1

      I think very few people genuinely believe that it's "all moral failing", just that some people push back against the people unwilling to accept that, with a few exceptions, it is partly moral failling.

    4. Re:Gained weight despite unchanged diet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think very few people genuinely believe that it's "all moral failing"

      Then you must be new to slashdot!

    5. Re:Gained weight despite unchanged diet by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      Instead of just saying that the naturally skinny differ "in the genes", researchers might start investigating different subsystems, such as the digestive, to see how changes in them might mitigate weight gain.

      A sixth grade school principle tried to make a case against my parents that they were abusing me because I was a fat kid. He called them into his office for a conference meeting. His mouth fell open when he met them. My parents were "naturally skinny" and weren't fat people as the principal thought they were. That particular meeting went south in a hurry. I went through several years of blood tests but the doctors could never find a medical reason for why I was bigger than my parents.

    6. Re:Gained weight despite unchanged diet by oic0 · · Score: 1

      Anticipated food scarcity is likely the biggest drive.

    7. Re:Gained weight despite unchanged diet by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      I think very few people genuinely believe that it's "all moral failing"

      If you're overweight and in a church, you're be surprised by how many members are willing to disciple you about your stomach rather than your heart. Your stomach won't lead you into sin like your heart will. But the stomach is low-hanging fruit that self-righteous pricks like to harass people about because they're not that good at talking about the heart.

    8. Re:Gained weight despite unchanged diet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      " Cold weather should speed up the metabolism" But it also tends to lead to lower activity.

    9. Re: Gained weight despite unchanged diet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The mailman was fat.

    10. Re:Gained weight despite unchanged diet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your stomach won't lead you into sin like your heart will.

      Bah, you forgot you the 7 deadly sins!

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    11. Re:Gained weight despite unchanged diet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think your forgetting about gluttony.

    12. Re:Gained weight despite unchanged diet by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      I think your forgetting about gluttony.

      That's funny because the word "gluttony" never came up in any conversations. Probably because I ate less than a lot of skinny people in my church. You can't have gluttony without gluttonous behavior.

    13. Re:Gained weight despite unchanged diet by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      Bah, you forgot you the 7 deadly sins!

      That's a Roman Catholic teaching. The seven deadly sins were never discussed in my non-denominational church. As I pointed out to someone else, gluttony requires gluttonous behavior. I ate a lot less than many of the skinny people at church. As the lead evangelist once pointed out, ordering a Diet Coke doesn't make your Big Mac less fattening.

    14. Re:Gained weight despite unchanged diet by nullchar · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Or anticipated need for large stores of energy to burn when it's really cold, even if you have more calories available to eat.

    15. Re:Gained weight despite unchanged diet by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1

      What IS it about fat people where they get enraged when someone points out they're fat? It's not like they can hide it or anything. Everyone can not only see, but see exactly how fat you are as well.

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    16. Re:Gained weight despite unchanged diet by Gavagai80 · · Score: 1

      I understood when teachers wanted to know if my parents were abusing me because I was skinny -- withholding food is certainly a form of abuse that happens -- but I don't get how fat can ever be a sign of parental abuse. He thought they were prying your mouth open and forcing food in every day, or what? If anything, fat would appear outwardly to be a sign of parents being too nice and letting their kid eat whatever he wants.

      --
      This space intentionally left blank
    17. Re:Gained weight despite unchanged diet by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      What IS it about fat people where they get enraged when someone points out they're fat?

      What IS it about skinny people that they appoint themselves as self-righteous pricks by offering unsolicited, and often inappropriate, advice to fat people? A friend insisted that I run seven miles a day even though it would blow out my knees. A coworker insisted that I drink water all the time even though I drink more water than him. Another coworker insisted in front of other coworkers at a meeting that I get lap-band surgery even though we weren't talking about my weight.

      Everyone can not only see, but see exactly how fat you are as well.

      I don't have a problem with being fat. I'm on a low carb diet, work out at the gym and drink plenty of water. I'm doing what I can do without killing myself in the process. Seems like skinny people are insecure around me because I'm not insecure or ashamed of being fat. I put that nonsense behind me years ago.

    18. Re:Gained weight despite unchanged diet by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      [...] but I don't get how fat can ever be a sign of parental abuse.

      I think the principle wanted to fat shame me by making a big deal about my weight in front of my parents, and his plan fell apart after my skinny parents walked through the door. You really can't fat shame skinny parents for having a fat kid, especially when a half-dozen blood tests come back negative for any medical causes.

    19. Re:Gained weight despite unchanged diet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except quite a few people openly dismiss research like this, insisting it is just an excuse by fat people and that nutritious is dead simple despite whatever researchers have to say. Regardless of how many people do actually make excuses for their condition, the result is some people find it more important to deny reality because for whatever reason, it is important to their psyche that skinny people are that way because hard work, determinism, and other positive qualities, while others are fat for lacking the qualities they have.

    20. Re:Gained weight despite unchanged diet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What IS it about fat people where they get enraged when someone points out they're fat?

      What IS it about skinny people that they appoint themselves as self-righteous pricks by offering unsolicited, and often inappropriate, advice to fat people? A friend insisted that I run seven miles a day even though it would blow out my knees. A coworker insisted that I drink water all the time even though I drink more water than him. Another coworker insisted in front of other coworkers at a meeting that I get lap-band surgery even though we weren't talking about my weight.

      Everyone can not only see, but see exactly how fat you are as well.

      I don't have a problem with being fat. I'm on a low carb diet, work out at the gym and drink plenty of water. I'm doing what I can do without killing myself in the process. Seems like skinny people are insecure around me because I'm not insecure or ashamed of being fat. I put that nonsense behind me years ago.

      I get the same type of self righteous crap from people about my diabetes, which I have had for about 18 years, and I usually let them tell me all the shit about what I should and shouldn't eat, and how it is all my fault.. and I wait about a beat and smile and tell them that I have type 1 diabetes not the type that you get from insulin resistance and the non alcoholic fatty liver syndrome effects.

      People are dicks, unless they work not to be. It is more about them and their insecurities and inferiority complexes and confirmation biases than it is about you. Pay those idiots no mind is my advice. The lady that suggested lap-band surgery out of the blue needs to be complimented on her lack of people skills and have an HR complaint filed it sounds like. I would have just laughed and said something like "I can get on a treadmill, what can you do about just being ugly? Bag over the head much?"

      Not everyone is the same, has the same habits or conditioning or gut flora and all of it matters to one degree or another. I have a fucked up mean immune system is my problem and it is no ones fault. It just happened. This does not stop idiots who don't have a problem ascribing to their skill or moral superiority, something that has happened by chance. This is a cognitive bias on their part and nothing to do with you, let them be morons.. rest assured that people around within earshot don't think those people are smart or witty or anything but ugly bags of mostly water.

      Carry on with your exercise and build some muscle .. and someday kick their ass when they mouth off.. :)

      And most importantly, be happy!

    21. Re:Gained weight despite unchanged diet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bah, you forgot you the 7 deadly sins!

      That's a Roman Catholic teaching. The seven deadly sins were never discussed in my non-denominational church. As I pointed out to someone else, gluttony requires gluttonous behavior. I ate a lot less than many of the skinny people at church. As the lead evangelist once pointed out, ordering a Diet Coke doesn't make your Big Mac less fattening.

      I gave up Religion for Lent. Liked it so much I never went back.

    22. Re:Gained weight despite unchanged diet by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

      Given periods of starvation or near to it is the norm for evolution, one would think optimized digestion would exist at any time.

      Or maybe fatsos on the plains of Africa are easy pickings for lions. Given the theory humans lost fur because they would walk/jog down prey for hours until the beast had heat stroke, an actually used technique, maybe that is an alternate body form better suited to survival than fatso, in warm.

      Anyhoo, where is the gut biota miracle pill I can pop daily to peal pounds while sitting in AC with a fan and blanket?

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    23. Re:Gained weight despite unchanged diet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except quite a few people openly dismiss research like this, insisting it is just an excuse by fat people and that nutritious is dead simple despite whatever researchers have to say. Regardless of how many people do actually make excuses for their condition, the result is some people find it more important to deny reality because for whatever reason, it is important to their psyche that skinny people are that way because hard work, determinism, and other positive qualities, while others are fat for lacking the qualities they have.

      Amen, I have found the promised land! Like my grandfather I eat Bacon every day.. and it works.. I have been able to stick to the diet.. True story bro!

    24. Re:Gained weight despite unchanged diet by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 1

      > It's also paradoxical. Cold weather should speed up the metabolism,

      Why? Some extra calories for shivering or thermal control seems reasonable. But for most species, winter is a time of low food intake and much reduced activity. Species of both mice and gut microbes that don't optimize food consumption in the cold are at a real evolutionary handicap compared to species that can do so successfully.

    25. Re:Gained weight despite unchanged diet by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 2

      Morbid obesity is a real health risk for many American children. Whether cause or effect, it's correlated with diabetes, heart trouble, and sleep apnea, to name only a few conditions that can kill a child.

    26. Re: Gained weight despite unchanged diet by Dixie_Flatline · · Score: 1

      More and more, it obvious that we should treat the microbiome as an organ in and of itself. It's responding to hormonal signals and regulating a significant portion of the metabolism in such a way as to adapt to external conditions.

      On the other hand, this isn't terribly surprising to me. Under normal circumstances, most swimmers put on a thin layer of subcutaneous fat to insulate themselves from the cold water. That's why they're not as absurdly cut as some of their warmer temperature athletic counterparts. (Abnormal circumstances in this case refers to Olympic level swimmers close to competitions, where nothing could keep that fat on their bodies; the energy expenditure is just too high.)

    27. Re:Gained weight despite unchanged diet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "but perhaps it's not all moral failing that make them fatter than normal weight type"

      What kind of pretentious fuck-wad thinks that being fat is some sort of moral failing?

      The only reason for fat people to consider losing weight is the rational reason of their own health. If they dont care about their health, then there is no reason for them to not be fat.

      A fat person is only disgusting based on their actions in life like everyone else. A person who thinks being fat is somehow immoral is disgusting based on their actions in life, like everyone else.

    28. Re:Gained weight despite unchanged diet by chihowa · · Score: 1

      Anyhoo, where is the gut biota miracle pill I can pop daily to peal pounds while sitting in AC with a fan and blanket?

      There is such a pill, but the "popping" isn't terribly pleasant.

      --
      If you want a vision of the future, imagine a youtube comments section scrolling - forever.
    29. Re: Gained weight despite unchanged diet by chihowa · · Score: 1

      You beat me to it, but maybe the mailman was actually quite fit. They walk like twenty-five miles a day, unlike the typical desk jockey. Maybe he needs a treadmill-powered computer, to better match his dad's lifestyle.

      --
      If you want a vision of the future, imagine a youtube comments section scrolling - forever.
    30. Re:Gained weight despite unchanged diet by shawn2772 · · Score: 1

      Overeating can be a coping mechanism for environmental stress. Abusive parents who nevertheless keep the fridge well-stocked could cause a kid to be fat. I'm not saying that's what the GP's principal believed, but excessive weight could be a sign of emotional abuse.

    31. Re:Gained weight despite unchanged diet by Areyoukiddingme · · Score: 1

      You really can't fat shame skinny parents for having a fat kid, especially when a half-dozen blood tests come back negative for any medical causes.

      There's mounting evidence, from this study and a few others, that no amount of blood testing will ever find anything, yet there is still a medical reason. It looks like they should have been testing your gut flora, not your blood. Of course, even after this is accepted science, and effective treatments are developed, people like that principal will still insist that it's all somebody's fault.

    32. Re:Gained weight despite unchanged diet by Areyoukiddingme · · Score: 1

      It's also paradoxical. Cold weather should speed up the metabolism, and thus, on the same diet, the organism should lose weight, not gain it. Yet the adaptation to gain fat to likely protect body temperature kicks in, generating changes in the digestive subsystem to achieve that end.

      In short, evolution is a bitch. Everything alive today is the product of a long line of creatures with effective survival adaptations. It turns out that effective survival adaptations don't give a damn about arbitrary aesthetic ideals. Who'da thunk it?

    33. Re:Gained weight despite unchanged diet by Livius · · Score: 1

      Because it is *partly* moral failing. Aside from some rare medical conditions, an obese person is not a *completely* innocent victim. These critics are people who a) are giving encouragement but not in a constructive way and/or b) are self-centredly showing off their own moral strength for having avoided the temptation.

      But no-one has infinite strength of character. Ironically Jesus once said something about hypocrisy when criticizing others.

      I don't understand why that's too complicated for so many people.

    34. Re:Gained weight despite unchanged diet by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      There's mounting evidence, from this study and a few others, that no amount of blood testing will ever find anything, yet there is still a medical reason.

      This was in the early 1980's. I barely missed out on the Ritalin craze that came afterward.

    35. Re:Gained weight despite unchanged diet by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      Because it is *partly* moral failing. Aside from some rare medical conditions, an obese person is not a *completely* innocent victim.

      The doctor told my mother that she was carrying twin girls. She got a ten-pound baby boy instead. (A huge disappointment for her, a huge relief for my father.) My bone structure is three times larger than my mother's and twice as large as my father's. Due to a misdiagnosed hearing loss in one ear, I was diagnosed as mentally retarded by the school district and I spent eight years in special ed classes being treated like an idiot. I skipped high school and went to college because I was a lot smarter than adults gave me credit.

      I don't understand why that's too complicated for so many people.

      The only moral failing I can see in my circumstances is my parents getting drunk and having unprotected sex during the holidays. But, hey, let's blame the fat boy for that one too.

    36. Re:Gained weight despite unchanged diet by RespekMyAthorati · · Score: 1

      My bone structure is three times larger than my mother's and twice as large as my father's.

      Bone structure and fatness have nothing to do with each other.

    37. Re:Gained weight despite unchanged diet by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      Bone structure and fatness have nothing to do with each other.

      That wouldn't become obvious until after I became an adult. I was just big all around as a kid.

  5. Fascinating stuff ... by cold+fjord · · Score: 1

    Over the last several years there have been a lot of interesting results come in regarding the microbiome in the gut and the overall effect that has on health and metabolism. Although fecal transplants have been shown to effect the gut flora, it will be interesting to see more investigation of probiotics and the extent to which they genuinely contribute to a healthy gut, and what parameters there are to that.

    --
    much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    1. Re:Fascinating stuff ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Over the last several years there have been a lot of interesting results come in regarding the microbiome in the gut and the overall effect that has on health and metabolism. Although fecal transplants have been shown to effect the gut flora, it will be interesting to see more investigation of probiotics and the extent to which they genuinely contribute to a healthy gut, and what parameters there are to that.

      I have done a lot of studying on probiotics and I am not entirely convinced that those capsules or the yogurt survives the acids in the stomach.. I think that is a case of marketing. This study shows an adaptive change in gut flora from cold exposure.. but you have to take into account a few things that are not articulated in the article, such as what the macronutrient content of the diet being fed to the mice was and the amount of calories involved for starters. I find that in a lot of these studies where they don't specify the macronutrients you need to assume they are going with the standard american "food pyramid" diet where they overfeed you carbohydrates and skimp on protein and fat.. and that diet alone is a recipe for metabolic syndrome, and my evidence for saying that is the american population since the 1970's. There was a genetic experiment where they gave some mice a myostatin inhibitor gene that causes them not to break down muscle tissue.. and then they fed the mice a high fat diet and noted that "oh yea, despite being fed a high fat diet the mice didn't get fat, they got muscular!" all the while they didn't mention that if you eat a high fat diet and stay within caloric limits.. you lose fat.. same as the mice.. but without the gene therapy.. so their study (in case of the myostatin gene edit) needs a bit more work to show a cause and effect relationship.. if they want to impress me, feed the myostatin gene mice.. a high carb diet and see if they get muscular or fat.. that would be telling..

      as for this study.. they say the cold exposed mice gained weight but they don't say if it was fat weight or muscle weight.. (they imply fat weight but they say nothing about the diet nor do they make comparisons in body composition between the control group and the intervention group.. so it doesn't really tell us much.)

      I think that the idea of fecal transplants does have some merit, however we would need to have certain assurances about the condition of the donor and I don't trust the idea of going to a "poop bank" and loading up, because I don't know how you would reasonably assure someone that they will not unwittingly catch something through that vector.. (think about all the things that they would have to screen for.. auto-immune disease, aids.. malaria etc...) If they could come up with an idea of "Homogenous healthy poop" that might be a start, but who is to say exactly what that is?? would it be different for different people? As I pointed out above, in the case of the "Standard healthy balanced diet advice" They pretty much did a short study back in the 1950s based on cherry picked science (Ancel Keys) and have been harping that same diet ever since .. and it has not been working ever since, so you would forgive me if I lack faith in the ability of anyone to say what a healthy and balanced diet or poop should look like.

      I say, however if people have a weight problem, try different things and see what works for you.. be your own experiment and you will find what works per the whole idea of you being your own personal n=1. It worked for me, but it took me years and I am still not out of the woods yet.. (I have lost 50 pounds in the last 3 years and still have about 15 to go.)

      Good luck, don't get down on yourself.. use evidenced based medicine and don't forget to ignore all the skinny idiots out there who want to get self righteous when the only reason they are skinny is due to chance dictating that is how they ended up. (If they get too out of line, slap them, I have.. it is quite satisfying!)

    2. Re:Fascinating stuff ... by kdayn · · Score: 1

      I think they would feed mice food not human as this is not about diet.

    3. Re:Fascinating stuff ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think they would feed mice food not human as this is not about diet.

      Irrelevant as "food stuffs" consist of carbohydrates, proteins and fats in varying amounts, the distinction you are making is a false one.

      If you think that diet does not have an effect on this, then you have some confusion about cause and effect.

      I know they said a common diet was fed to the mice in the two groups, but it would be useful to know the macronutrient content of the diet for peer review purposes.

    4. Re:Fascinating stuff ... by cold+fjord · · Score: 0

      I am not entirely convinced that those capsules or the yogurt survives the acids in the stomach.

      I'm pretty sure I've seen references to at least one study that showed unique organisms introduced by some probiotic formulation (kefir?) transited the entire digestive tract.

      I think your reservations about "poop banks" are well founded which is why transplants have tended to come from close relatives.

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
  6. I hope my tax dollars aren't funding this shit. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    n/t

  7. awesome news! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    as a canadian i no longer have to worry about getting too fat in the winter.. it's supposed to happen. and i suppose if i dont want to diet or exercise in the summer, i can always move a little further north!

    1. Re:awesome news! by Hartree · · Score: 1

      Well, that's why Tim Horton's does so well there! :)

      (I'll take a double double and a box of TimBits.)

    2. Re:awesome news! by ChunderDownunder · · Score: 1

      Santa is Canadian? :)

    3. Re:awesome news! by dryeo · · Score: 1

      Postal address is Canadian, so yes. You can test by addressing your letter to Santa, North Pole, Canada, with a postal code of H0H 0H0 and get a reply.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
  8. air conditioning? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What do you think would happen to the obesity rates if we got rid of air conditioning?

    1. Re:air conditioning? by Beeftopia · · Score: 1

      This is an interesting angle:

      1) A historical graph of "percentage of households with air conditioning."

      2) Historical obesity rates.

      Could be totally a coincidental correlation, but interesting.

  9. And the lab needs to be congratulated by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Congratulations, you discovered thyroid hormone.

  10. This proves it by kybred · · Score: 1

    We don't know shit!

    1. Re:This proves it by Hartree · · Score: 1

      Not just that. We don't even know shit about shit.

  11. the hell with mices by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What if the signatures of aliens in space are nothing but fake body fat, like that makes the smile on your face?

  12. The new frontier by nullchar · · Score: 2

    Exactly! Our microbiomes are the new frontier of health for all sorts of things, obesity being number one for the general western population.

    It's only a matter of time, and IP law, that engineered bacteria will be sold as designer probiotics to counter all sorts of maladies. Could we easily create a grassroots organization to distribute colon flora? Sure! But the fat, sterile westerners will say "Ew, gross!", but happily pay for Monsanto Microbiome Enhancement Plus for a premium. (it's a fictional drug to counter the bacterial imbalance created by eating processed, industrialized food.)

    Just as the finding of lead in our environment is bad for humans, perhaps so will antibiotics from medicines to soaps, along with polymers such as BPA (commonly found in most thermal paper receipts that people handle on a daily basis), be found to cause harm to our microbiome.

    If you count cells in the human body, there are more bacterial cells than human cells; of course the human cells are much larger, but human individuals are complex organisms living with lots of other living "things".

  13. Gut bacteria significantly impact obesity by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    that's the take away. In other words, being fat doesn't just mean you're a lazy slob. Stuff like this has enormous social implications for the United States, where we kinda have a culture of "blame the victim" in the guise of personal responsibility. Basically more and more things we blame on lose morals we're finding physical causes of. For the rest of the world this might not be such a big deal, but here in the States this might have a huge impact on our politics.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
    1. Re: Gut bacteria significantly impact obesity by qbast · · Score: 1

      Yes, you are lazy slob who stuffs your face way too much. The fact that not 100% of calories in the food is actually used is nothing new. You just need to take your 'efficiency rate' into account, then start moving more and stuffing your face less until intake falls below expenditure. Sorry, gut bacteria is not universal 'it is not my fault, so gimme that burger and fries' card.

    2. Re:Gut bacteria significantly impact obesity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think fresh, real food that the gut can process has a lot of impact on obesity too.

      And, even with people living in the Northern US, most of the time they are indoors, in their cars, or wrapped up in clothing to keep them warm without their body needing to do much work or the bacteria in their gut dying off from the temperature changing a little.

    3. Re:Gut bacteria significantly impact obesity by HiThere · · Score: 1

      While your argument has a lot of merit, there's also a lot of research that shows that what particular foods you eat grossly changes your microbiome. (Not just the gut bacteria, but also the skin, what you shed as you walk around, etc.)

      So, e.g., Vegans will have a radically different microbiome than will those who eat at McDonalds. And even assuming both groups get "full nutrition" as recognized by the USDA, they are quite likely to have tremendously different weights. And both of these will be quite different from someone who normally eats at a chinese restaurant. (I'm presuming that fried foods are minimized here. Otherwise it starts looking more like McDonalds.)

      But do notice that saying that their microbiomes are different isn't saying which is better, or even that one is better than the other. What's better may depend on other environmental factors. (To be honest, I doubt that the microbiome encouraged by McDonalds has any advantages...but I don't *know*.)

      It should not be surprising, however, if different micro-flora process foods differently. Even extremely differently. And this can easily affect thermodynamic efficiency.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
  14. Inuit, Swedes, Samis, Finns and Nowegians . . . by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 1

    You can take your mice, wrap them up in duct tape, and shove them somewhere, which will give you an auto-erotic adventure.

    Why don't these scientists study some humans who live in cold places? I think it would be way more interesting to see how humans cope with the cold, and how their body fat deals with this.

    --
    Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
    1. Re:Inuit, Swedes, Samis, Finns and Nowegians . . . by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 1

      Why don't these scientists study some humans who live in cold places

      Because getting complete diatary and lifestyle control of small lab animals is much cheaper and faster than doing so for humans. And dissecting to examine their intestinal walls, in detail, is something most human study guidelenes would prevent.

    2. Re:Inuit, Swedes, Samis, Finns and Nowegians . . . by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 1

      Because getting complete diatary and lifestyle control of small lab animals is much cheaper and faster than doing so for humans. And dissecting to examine their intestinal walls, in detail, is something most human study guidelenes would prevent.

      Ah, just put it in the small print when you buy a rack called "Skrollan" from Ikea. In the small print, it will say that there is not enough of the small screws, and too many from the big screws, and that you accept to: "dissecting to examine their intestinal walls".

      I always wondered what was in those small, Swedish meatballs that they serve at Ikea . . .

      --
      Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
  15. Re: I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from her by hackwrench · · Score: 1

    Usually the calories in/out crowd only look at the calories that make it into the bloodstream and calories burned by exercise.
    Then there's the strange situation of when fattening food animals is talked about what is really meant is causing them to gain meat, not fat.

  16. Re: I hope my tax dollars aren't funding this shi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You know, you don't have to stay here. Feel free to find a better place to live.

  17. Re: I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from her by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So u think fat ppl should hav the willpower to extract less nutrients with their diffrnt intestines?

  18. Re: I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from her by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you're not fat, why not get fecal transplant from someone morbidly obese? Get back to us after watching your body betray you.

  19. Re: I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from her by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Villi is as specializes a term as intestine, and both are taught in grade school.

  20. You adapt to cold by tomhath · · Score: 1

    Seems like something we already knew, but didn't understand the mechanism. The cooling days in Fall are uncomfortable compared to the warming days in Spring even though the thermometer reads the same, because your body had gotten better at burning calories over the Winter.

  21. Re: I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from he by qbast · · Score: 2

    No. They should simply account for what they have no control over and adjust their calories intake.

  22. WARMING: Severe Tire Damage by TheRealHocusLocus · · Score: 1

    Scratching my head here. What's the conclusion to be drawn, from these experiments?

    It's evidence on a very specific level, the microbes somehow helping to regulate the length of intestinal villi. We've pretty well established how mammal bodies release stored fat as needed, but the mechanisms that regulate its intake are not as well understood.

    So the interesting question becomes, why are we seeing evidence of a 'system' that is capable of actively regulating villi length rather a simple observation like mere presence of 'germ' x results in y. Stated another way, we're seeing evidence of ongoing symbiosis rather than an evolutionary result. Perhaps Akkermansia muciniphila functions as the Winter fat-storage inhibitor and there is significant evolutionary advantage to thinning out in the Spring --- even if the price is reduced nutritional uptake. This is (slightly) counter-intuitive because we are used to thinking of food uptake as something that has been constantly perfected over time (eg more is always better).

    Perhaps the article reads a little strange because it involves temperature YET and there is the complete absence of a politically motivated guilt zinger woven into its presentation. But watch the headlines, I'm sure some will bite, viz:

    CLIMATE CHANGE INTERFERING WITH NATURE'S FAT STORAGE MECHANISM?
    AMID CLIMATE FEARS, THERE MAY BE THIN HOT RATS IN OUR FUTURE

    --
    <blink>down the rabbit hole</blink>
  23. Re: I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from her by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Crap! I'll have to work on a different flavor then.

  24. but still by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    really that is nice, but yet it doesn't explain human hogs getting so obese, since al gore and his cult of scientists keep screaming about the hottest months in decades and how we are all doomed with a 2 degree increase in temperature, so then wouldn't everyone be getting skinnier since its getting hotter?

  25. Interesting in application to livestock by pubwvj · · Score: 1

    I raise pigs on pasture year round in a cold climate (USDA Zone 3 Vermont mountains). For years I have done selective breeding to produce pigs that pasture well and thrive right through cold winters without the need for commercial grain / hog feed. There is a genetic component and this article suggests a gut biome component too which is likely passed through the herds from sow to piglets since young pigs practice coprophagia which has been shown to also teach them what to eat as well as inoculating their digestive tracts with appropriate bacteria. This may explain why people have a hard time dumping confinement pigs out on pasture, especially in our hard climate.

    1. Re:Interesting in application to livestock by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I raise pigs on pasture year round in a cold climate (USDA Zone 3 Vermont mountains). For years I have done selective breeding to produce pigs that pasture well and thrive right through cold winters without the need for commercial grain / hog feed. There is a genetic component and this article suggests a gut biome component too which is likely passed through the herds from sow to piglets since young pigs practice coprophagia which has been shown to also teach them what to eat as well as inoculating their digestive tracts with appropriate bacteria. This may explain why people have a hard time dumping confinement pigs out on pasture, especially in our hard climate.

      Sorry to all the pro-biotic people out there.. it does not work.. None of the bacteria you put in your mouth, be it in yogurt or a capsule or otherwise.. survives the acids in the stomach to make it to the intestine. All of that is just marketing.. you have to do a fecal transplant in order to transplant intentional bacteria.. you can't get around it. Don't buy probiotic capsules. you are wasting your money.

  26. "Veni, vidi, villi" by davesays · · Score: 1

    I leave the translation to you...