Apple Is Not Such a Freedom Fighter In China (latimes.com)

mi writes: Though loudly resisting the American government's attempts to make it help break into the phone of a dead scumbag, Apple is very accommodating of the Chinese government's attempts to keep tabs on the citizenry's communications. Apple has censored apps that wouldn't pass muster with the Chinese government, moved local user data onto servers operated by the state-owned China Telecom, and submitted to Chinese audits. According to James Lewis, senior fellow at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington, "I can't imagine the Chinese would tolerate end-to-end encryption or a refusal to cooperate with their police, particularly in a terrorism case." Why the accommodation there?

Comments

I'm *NOT* an Apple supporter by any means...

[acoustix]

But you cannot compare the two. Citizens of the US are guaranteed certain freedoms and liberties. Citizens in China are not. That's China's problem, not Apple's. If the people of China want the same protections, they need to do something about it.

Go ahead and check my history. I'm a huge BlackBerry supporter and generally dislike Apple products. But Apple is 100% correct here.

Re:I'm *NOT* an Apple supporter by any means...

[Aaden42]

Apple's stance is to comply with the laws in the jurisdiction they operate in. In China, that means do what central government says. In the US, that means do what the laws say. Apple's stance in the US case is that FBI's request isn't supported by current US law. That's the way the law works in the US. The government tries to do a thing, and it's the citizen's right (including citizen corporations) to challenge that by due process in court. Apple is complying with US law in the US and Chinese law in China.

Also, nice impartial language in the summary, eds...

Re:I'm *NOT* an Apple supporter by any means...

[Aighearach]

I've been hating Apple ever since I first used a Mac. (loved the ][series though)

I can hate Apple at the same time as agreeing that they deserve Freedom. I can hate them even while standing up for their right to choose their own speech, to write (only) the software that they want to write. I can hate them even while standing up for their right under the 5th Amendment to have their own PR and not to have it taken away by the FBI without just compensation for the loss. Considering the incredible label-markup their products command, I doubt the FBI could even afford to buy out their PR as a legit taking. ;)

A lot of people in the world just don't imagine how deep the American love of our Freedoms is. Love of Freedom trumps love of life, it certainly trumps hate of elitist walled gardens. If they can afford their stinky garden, then let them wallow in it!

Likewise, we're pretty neutral on Chinese freedom. If they valued it, they would have it. They seem to value national unity more. They are free to have that system. ;)

Re:I'm *NOT* an Apple supporter by any means...

[Anonymous Coward]

That nice, but irrelevant. It has nothing to do with the difference in laws between the U.S. and China.

Apple is very cooperative with the oppressive Chinese government for one reason and one reason only -- China is Apple's supplier of slave labor. If Apple refused to cooperate and was forced to go elsewhere, it would cut into their massive profit margin. On the other hand, fighting the FBI does nothing to hurt Apple's profits and allows them to pretend that they actually care about their users.

Re:I'm *NOT* an Apple supporter by any means...

[Aighearach]

They are protecting the rights of their customers in this instance

False. They are protecting their own rights, not the rights of their customers. As a matter of fact. The stuff about "customer rights" is PR. Customers don't have a "right" to secure products, they are simply free to choose a product they believe to be more secure. Customers preferring secure products invokes Apple's right to offer what products they believe will sell. Apple has a right to choose what they sell, customers don't have a right to have certain features offered in the marketplace.

Freedom fighter?

[110010001000]

Who ever thought Apple was a freedom fighter? They use essentially slave labor to assemble their iPhones. Bizarre.

Why the accommodation there?

[fustakrakich]

What can I say? Business is business. This 'freedom fighter' stuff makes for good soap opera and draws a few more customers, but not much else.

Regardless, we shouldn't be depending on any large company to protect our interests. If you want privacy, you're on your own.

What accommodation?

[slashdot_commentator]

According to James Lewis, senior fellow at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington, "I can't imagine the Chinese would tolerate end-to-end encryption or a refusal to cooperate with their police, particularly in a terrorism case." Why the accommodation there?

Kudos to the article submitter (& braindead slashdot "editor") for the Apple hatchet job by innuendo. Apple hasn't done anything for the Chinese gov't that it has refused to the US gov't. Everything the article fearmongers is about the "potential" of what the Chinese gov't will ask Apple, if the DOJ gets their way. There is no compelling reason for China to request modifications to degrade the phone security. Only rich chinese citizens can afford to own an iPhone, and they're all joined to the hip with party leadership.

Do you have a locally-sourced organic smartphone?

[Brannon]

It's weird that Apple is always pointed out for using "slave labor" when every other manufacturer of consumer electronics is at least as bad.

BTW: have we now fully accepted the redefinition of "slave labor" to mean "voluntarily working at a job which pays the at or above the typical prevailing wage of the area in which the job is located"? Because "slave labor" used to mean something...different.

The fact that we're even having this discussion

[clonehappy]

Shows just how far we've slipped down the hole to tyranny.

It used to be we would point to things done by the governments of China and other communist/repressive regimes and show our superiority that we maintain an orderly and law-abiding society without resorting to such nefarious, underhanded activities against our own citizens. Why, backdooring hardware, warrantless wiretapping, sneak and peek raids? Those are things done by tyrannies! Who would ever....in America??

Now, we ask why a private company won't give our own government the same things it gives to a repressive tyrannical regime. It should go without fucking saying why a private company would hold it's own, supposedly above board and representative government, to a higher standard than a third-world dictatorship! Are we all really so dense that the question even needs to be asked?!

Now, we can wax intellectual about whether the United States government has ever been a representative one or if freedom ever really has existed, but that's a philosophical conversation that has no place in this discussion. The fact remains is that the line we're all sold, since the day we're born, is that America is the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave, and our freedoms are the envy of the world and it's what makes us stand out as a beacon of liberty in an otherwise oppressive world. And now that an organization with a little bit of money and power is asking the powers that be to put their money where their mouth is, we get to see the true colors of the establishment, in all it's disgusting, ugly, hypocritical hues.

Re:Because China is not asking for the same thing

[msauve]

"Apple said seven people for up to four weeks"

Yeah, right. Like it takes that much effort to change a constant from 10 to 10000. And it's not like they'd have to put it through a full suite of validation tests afterwards - who cares if they can still make a phone call?

Having said that, I support Apple's position, but I think they're being disingenuous with that claim, unless they're counting the lawyer's time in that figure.

Has China REQUIRED Apple to create something?

[gurps_npc]

No. What The US is doing is worse than what China does.

Apple is being ordered to do something that China has NEVER ordered Apple to do - to create software to let them censor.

There is a huge difference between refusing to let someone sell encryption, and allowing them to create and sell encryption, then demanding they break it.

If Apple obeyed the US in this task, then China would demand they do the same. In the end, China would end up having the same espionage ability that the US demanded.

Look, the phone should have it's encryption broken. But the NSA should do it themselves instead of trying to get a private corporation to do it for them.

Re:Apple ain't a freedom fighter at all

[Aighearach]

Apple isn't a "Freedom Fighter" they're an American company who insists on fighting for their own American freedoms.

They're not Chinese, they don't really have a stake in Chinese Freedom, or an expectation of it.

It doesn't need to "fool" anybody; American companies are expected to stand up for their own rights, it is a prerogative of those having some Freedom, it is not presumed to be some sort of ideological or political or PR endeavor.

Choosing your battles

[Midnight Thunder]

The other way of seeing is that Apple is choosing which battles to fight. You can't win them all and you would be foolish to try.

Apple is an American company, in the USA, a country that has strong ideals about civil liberties, so fighting this in on home turf makes a lot of sense. China is more complicated, since it is not a country with strong ideals about civil liberties, it is not Apple's home turf and it probably wouldn't take much for Apple to be excluded from that market, not mention potential diplomatic issues. If Apple can't win a civil liberty fight back home, what chance does it stand in China. Remember what happened to Google.