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A Phone App Helps Day Laborers Attack Wage Theft (nytimes.com)

Posted by timothy on from the who-will-watch-the-foremen? dept.

An anonymous reader writes with this story from the New York Times, excerpting "After three years of planning, an immigrant rights group in Jackson Heights is set to start a smartphone app for day laborers, a new digital tool with many uses: Workers will be able to rate employers (think Yelp or Uber), log their hours and wages, take pictures of job sites and help identify, down to the color and make of a car, employers with a history of withholding wages. They will also be able to send instant alerts to other workers. The advocacy group will safeguard the information and work with lawyers to negotiate payment." Adds the submitter: "Although I completely support the app, personally, I see this encountering some significant legal challenges. Hope they've lawyered up." Though the use case is different, this is similar in spirit to "cop watch" apps, like Cell411 and the ACLU's Mobile Justice. (And of course there's Periscope.)

20 of 101 comments (clear)

  1. Trump is winning here, too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Early reports show Donald Trump is in the lead for the most number of reports from this app.

  2. One of these things is not like the other by Quarters · · Score: 3, Funny

    "Adds the submitter...(And of course there's Periscope)"

    Which is a tool 100% unlike either the app the NY Times is writing about or the other two apps the submitter referenced. So while yes, there is Periscope, it is not germane to this discussion.

  3. Sounds useful. by ArylAkamov · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Sounds good to me. I've recently started logging my hours after a number of suspiciously low pay checks and frequently being "forgotten" on payday.

    Being an independent contractor sucks. Especially when the boss is always several states away and never answers his phone.

    Yeah, I should quit, I know, but it's either marine electrician or unemployment.

    1. Re:Sounds useful. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Do you work on fishing radar or just yacht internals? If you don't have family you must stay with, consider relocating to Trinidad. Much greater demand for marine electricians when everyone needs their boats to work, and most boats are fairly advanced.

  4. A small issue by oshkrozz · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I can see the unintended consequence
    IRS
    They better be current on all their reporting to the IRS before making any claims for or against anyone. Day labors tend to not be so vigilant in this area

    1. Re:A small issue by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They better be current on all their reporting to the IRS before making any claims for or against anyone.

      I don't think the idea is to "make claims", but to make it harder for abusive employers to find laborers. My company occasionally needs extra labor for a rush job, and I head over to the local Home Depot parking lot to pick up some Mexicans. They all know each other, and word spreads fast, so scumbag employers will drive around and try different laborer congregation sites. This app will help guard against this by spreading information more widely. I never have a problem because we pay hard cash at the end of the work day. We also provide a free hot lunch (hot in both temperature and condiments).

    2. Re:A small issue by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I wonder how long until this is considered a criminal enterprise or the cops end up demanding the user database.

      Nobody really cares about "illegal immigrants". The Democrats see them as future Democratic voters, and the Republicans want to keep them around as a wedge issue that they can exploit. Most cops are local government employees, and immigration is a federal matter. In my city, San Jose, California, cops are prohibited from asking about anyone's immigration status, unless they have already been arrested for other reasons.

    3. Re:A small issue by Luthair · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I'd say the republicans want to keep them around so they can pay them less than minimum wage and drive wages down.

    4. Re:A small issue by KGIII · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I've hired people from Labor Ready, including just recently after a few Slashdotters helped me make a great big mess on the lawn and beach. To be fair, they weren't the only ones there for the NYE festivities. But, I'd used them before.

      I can't say how valid this is but they're VERY clear on the documentation that you, the contractor, sign. They employees are all supposed to be documented and paying their taxes. They get paid daily (or weekly) and the "appropriate" sums are withdrawn before they even see the money. They fill out a W-2, show ID, and all that. At the end of the day (or week) they can get a check or they can get a code. They put their code and some other number(s), I don't know the exact details, into a machine that looks like an ATM but is not an ATM and it spits out their money.

      I have no idea how stringent those checks on ID are, how well they follow the IRS' regulations, or anything like that but they're very, very clear about it. I also have no idea how other companies do it as I have no experience with anyone but Labor Ready. I always cheat and give them extra money on top of what they get paid from the company so I'm probably not helping matters much. I call 'em tips and that's exactly what they are. I kind of doubt they're paying taxes on their tips but, at the same time, they may not actually (and probably are not actually) be earning enough by tips to be required to report it.

      Also, the policy I signed says that I'm not supposed to give them tips. However, Labor Ready takes something like 1/3 of their pay. I only use Labor Ready because there's some accountability, insurance, and the employees are supposed to be documented. I've used them a number of times over the years and in a few different locations. I've only once had to send someone back to the office. The rest have all been good people who worked well.

      I make sure to ask the average wages and pay more than that and the guys who run the place don't send the drunks and lazy people. Meh, it works out well. I sent the ones from the NYE cleanup home with a whole bunch of left-over booze and the three kegs so that they were able to get the deposits on those too. I can't say that I have any complaints and the workers seem pretty happy to get paid well and not have to work for a hard-ass that's breathing down their necks. I've already set it up to pay them for x-amount of hours. If they get it done sooner than that, they get same amount of pay so long as they don't go back to the office too soon.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
  5. Re:Article link dead by beakerMeep · · Score: 2

    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03...

    --
    meep
  6. Takers! by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 3, Funny

    Those damn takers are at it again. The Job creators need your wages. Goddamned socialists!

    --
    The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    1. Re:Takers! by sumdumass · · Score: 2

      Huh? I'm not sure I follow what you are saying here. Do you actually think that expecting a days pay for a days worth of work is socialism or that keeping the pay is some sort of socialism? The former is free market capitalism, the later is criminal behavior plain and simple. I'm not sure where socialism or any political ideology comes into play here other than a lot of the workers are illegals which is the only real reason people can get away with robbing their wages and underpaying them. It's not like they can complain to any authorities without fear of legal consequences for themselves.

    2. Re:Takers! by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Huh? I'm not sure I follow what you are saying here. Do you actually think that expecting a days pay for a days worth of work is socialism or that keeping the pay is some sort of socialism? The former is free market capitalism, the later is criminal behavior plain and simple. I'm not sure where socialism or any political ideology comes into play here other than a lot of the workers are illegals which is the only real reason people can get away with robbing their wages and underpaying them. It's not like they can complain to any authorities without fear of legal consequences for themselves.

      It was a throwaway sarcasm/joke. Not even all that good of one. Kinda like how the job creators need as much money as possible to create jobs, and how employees are viewd as the enemy.

      But if I might, since you've decided to take my lame joke seriously - years and years ago, I had a job selling auto stuff, like oil, batteries and tires. I was pretty good at it. The owners set up a bonus system for the salesmen. For sales above X amount, we'd get a percentage. So I set out and sold, sold, sold. In a few weeks I was into the bonus sales. The first time, I got there, they said that it wasn't completely set up yet. Okay, no problem. The second time, it was "Those things you sold were lower profit items." I was a little annoyed. The third time, I asked about it and they told me they had to change the dollar figure for getting bonus. Upward, of course.

      They didn't consider it criminal behavior at all, they considered it good, sound business practice. And what was I going to do about it? Nothing much, so it was indeed good, sound business practice. Do you even think for a minute that this behavior isn't going on for citizens as well? With the same results?

      Now of course, I scaled the sales back and got another job pretty quickly. But they carried on for a number of years, probably screwing other employees over.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    3. Re:Takers! by sumdumass · · Score: 2

      They didn't consider it criminal behavior at all, they considered it good, sound business practice. And what was I going to do about it? Nothing much, so it was indeed good, sound business practice. Do you even think for a minute that this behavior isn't going on for citizens as well? With the same results?

      I'm sorry to say but you are or were kind of stupid. If an employer refused to pay me when I follow their own rules, I move on to another job and likely take them to court for back wages. There shouldn't have been a third time.

      And no, I do not have to stop and consider that this behavior happened to citizens as well. As a citizen, assuming you are not wanted by the cops for anything, you can report the employer's behavior and even sue. But if you cannot go to the courts or state agencies, you kind of have to put up with it or figure out how to go elsewhere.

      Now of course, I scaled the sales back and got another job pretty quickly. But they carried on for a number of years, probably screwing other employees over.

      You should have sued them for lost wages too.

      Here is what I do not get. If you were making the sales, they were making the money. They would have to know that either people would stop making the sales or go elsewhere. Either way, they lost a valuable sales asset which doesn't make any business sense at all. Are you sure the business you were in wasn't just the front for a drug ring and they didn't want it to succeed else they would have issues laundering drug money?

  7. Re:Nice and all by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2, Insightful

    but when are we going to start enforcing minimum wage law?

    The current minimum wage law is a joke. There are states where the minimum wage is still $7.25 an hour.

    I don't care what kind of job you have, if you're working for someone, it's worth more than $7.25 an hour. If you're the Quality Assurance supervisor at a Las Vegas strip club, your time is still worth more than $7.25 a goddamn hour.

    And by the way, I'm currently seeking a position as a Quality Assurance supervisor at a Las Vegas strip club. If you know of such a position, hit me up on Linkdin. But you better be paying at least $9/hr and offer free hand sanitizer. I don't care if there's an employee lunch room on premises, because I hope to be eating out.

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  8. there's something like that for Mechanical Turk by Trepidity · · Score: 4, Informative

    There was a rash of people submitting jobs to Mechanical Turk and then not paying anyone. The person paying can rate work as unacceptable and not pay, and there's no real oversight if they just do that all the time (and Amazon doesn't police this at all, or even provide a reputation mechanism). So some academics put together a third-party site, Turkopticon, that people use to rate jobs, payers, etc., which has made it a lot easier to avoid the people on the site who won't pay. Seems like a good idea to extend it to "the real world".

    --
    10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
  9. Re:Translate "day laborer" to "illegal alien" plea by KGIII · · Score: 2

    Then you simply don't employ them and don't support those who do. At the very least, illegal immigrant or not, you don't abuse them. We can be humane about shipping them back across the boarder. There's no reason to be hostile and there are zero reasons to be abusive.

    --
    "So long and thanks for all the fish."
  10. It goes both ways by Solandri · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I used to do the accounting at a company which used day laborers. I did my job honestly and paid exactly what each employee's time card said they worked. The biggest problem we had was actually people getting their friend to punch in their time card for them before they'd actually arrived for work, and people hanging around before clocking out to pad the amount of time they'd worked.

    We let the latter abuse slide because it was usually done to round off 7.98 hours worked to 8 hours (the employees we knew didn't do this just got bigger end of year bonuses instead). The former abuse got serious enough we actually considered switching to a fingerprint-based time card. In the end we decided doing so would send a "we don't trust you" message to all our employees, when it was only a few employees who did it. Instead we opted to put the time clock in a more public location, and have the managers sit down with any of their employees we knew did this and give them a talk stressing that having a friend punch in for them was not allowed.

  11. Re:Nice and all by beelsebob · · Score: 2, Informative

    A human can self sustain on a smallholding, and stay alive. That gives us a reasonable lower bound on how much human labour is worth - you can build a house, farm, eat, and get by.

    Lets see what $7.25 an hour (aka $15,000 a year at 40 hours a week) can get you. You can get a 6 pack of ramen for $2.19 at walmart, so that's $400 a year on food if you expect to eat a packet of ramen 3 times a day. Median one bed rent in the US is $1200 a month, so that's $14,400 on rent. To survive, you're going to need water and sewerage, so that's $200 a month to the local government - $2400. You're also going to need electricity to boil water for that kettle to eat your ramen, and basic heating, so call that $100 a month for the electric bill. Another $1200.

    That's us at $18,400 *just* to eat ramen day in day out, doing nothing but that, sitting on a bare floor, staring at a wall while you're not out labouring.

    In reality, what a human can produce on a smallholding is significantly better than a packet of ramen 3 times a day, so in reality, food will cost significantly more than that.

    So we can pretty firmly establish here, no - human labour is *not* ever worth less than $7.25 an hour. Humans, even when doing the ultimate in unskilled labour, just literally doing nothing but scraping by surviving produce more value than $7.25 an hour. If you're trying to get someone to do something that's worth less than that, then you're actively making humanity less efficient, not more so. Minimum wage law preventing you from doing that is preventing you from making humanity worse.

  12. Re:Nice and all by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    What a ridiculous set of numbers! I live for about half of that much in Seattle. Water and sewage is not $200/month. My bill is $42 and split with a roommate so it's $21. Also, power is nowhere near as expensive as you claim. I have never seen a power bill that huge. Our bill is usually just under $35 per month split two ways is about $17.50 each.

    Why does your kind always exaggerate and lie? We all want to make more money, but the idea that we need to be dishonest about it is ridiculous. I get that you hate the truth and constantly spew lies, but please at least try to make them believable. No sane person believes your $200 per month for water lie. Your kind lies.