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Dutch Companies Not Allowed To Fitness-Track Their Employees (www.nu.nl)
An anonymous reader writes: The Dutch Privacy Authority made it known today that companies are not allowed to gather their employees' health data from wearable devices [original, in Dutch] such as the Fitbit. Of the two companies that were mentioned in this case, one of them had access to employee sleep patterns. In both cases the employees had given their employers permission to use this data. However, according to the Privacy Authority it is impossible to truly give 'free consent' when there is a 'financial dependency.'
I would think that companies that collected health data would be screwed if obesity ever became a protected class and they showed a pattern of firing or not promoting unhealthy fat people.
Companies that collect this stuff would already seem to be in borderline territory with race and age, which are already protected classes, since race and age can predict certain health conditions. (If health conditions were used in personnel decisions, someone could potentially say that's a round-about way of discriminating on race/age...)
why has it taken governments so long to realize that if someone you works for asks for something, saying "no" can hurt you and therefore it should be illegal to ask for an employee to do anything that is not directly job related. that bullshit with disney asking for "donations" is a perfect example. i wish our regulatory agencies would do something about this kind of bullshit.
Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
Your so-called freedom to choose doesn't make much sense when you cause problems for everyone around you.
Are you talking about the fat person who eats less because they are on a diet or the skinny person who eats too much from a super-size menu?
At least the Google Translate of the article was more readable than most Slashdot summaries...
Also voluntarily sell your kids' organs.
Freedom for all! I am stupid and over-simplify models of human behaviour! ALL HAIL THE INVISIBLE HAND!
Because saying "no, you may not monitor my health" to your employer may have negative consequences and puts the employee in a difficult position. It's the same reason why we have maximum working hours and minimum wage. In theory each individual could freely decide to agree to more hours or less money, but in practice the balance of power between employer and employee favours the former and so we want the law to compensate.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Shouldn't a company have all of the data on their slaves that they can get?
And if your employer were to say that you will "voluntarily" supply health information or you might not get pay rise, will you still think that? It's protection against coercion.
A small consulting company I worked for asked me after about two years to sign a non-compete agreement. I talked to an employment attorney who reviewed the agreement. He said it was a generic boilerplate with no obvious negatives, but then he asked me what I was given in consideration for signing the agreement -- raise, new title, any material benefits?
I said no, should I ask for any? He said no, that might cause problems -- your best bet is to just sign it, but knowing that its not enforceable, as signing a non-compete when you already are employed without being given consideration has generally rendered non-compete agreements unenforceable in our state under the assumption that the relationship is coercive.
I'm wondering if the coercive nature of employment could be used to block fitness tracker use in the US under a similar kind of logic.
I think the entire concept is bogus. What I do away from work is my own business, and if that includes sitting like statue for the 16 hours I'm off work, so be it. I also think there's good reason to question what and how much exercise is ultimately beneficial. I'd also think companies would want to be cautious about implying penalties or career limitations from not meeting arbitrary fitness goals -- those in the worst physical shape may be coerced into levels of activity that are unhealthy for them, believing if they don't post numbers that meet some arbitrary employer standards they could lose their jobs, benefits or compensation.
Ultimately I view these fitness trackers as a kind of confessional for the fitness religion, either affirming one's adherence to fitness dogma or one's place as a fitness heretic.
"However, according to the Privacy Authority it is impossible to truly give 'free consent' when there is a 'financial dependency.'"
This is true in the US as well. It should be impossible to lose your rights regardless of what you agree to as a condition of employment.
If I hadn't already commented on this story I would.
You would be allowed to voluntarily provide data but your employer would not be allowed to maintain a database containing sensitive data like this without a good purpose. Nevertheless, I'm glad for you to be living in the USA, where anybody can create totally insecure databases containing all your personal information without restriction whatsoever.
That means that as an employer, it's fine if you keep Strava update mails from your employees in your inbox. Organising them into a folder quickly becomes dangerous territory.
0x or or snor perron?!
They could just do what I do: attach my fitbit to the dog and let the dog run around in the back yard all day. Here's your frickin' exercise data, suckers!
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
Boss: Why are there gaps in your fitness tracking data on Thursday evenings
Intern: I took the tracker off as I wanted some privacy
Boss: But we need that data for our analysis. My wife always does the same thing, she has data gaps all over the place whenever she goes out.
Intern: (looks at the ceiling trying desperately not to make eye contact)
Don't have a super sized menu.
Have you been in a restaurant in recent years? Everything is big. I order the smallest menu item, eat one-third at the restaurant and the other two-thirds over the next several days at home.
Typical shaming socialist. You sound as bad as christians crying about sex on tv.
As opposed to the quite visible government dildo? Corporate powered of course, because even the most bleeding heart progressive loves money.
For the same reason your boss shouldn't sleep with his secretary. It can be argued that it wasn't exactly voluntary if there was financial dependence. There's a special name for that relationship and it's called prostitutio- er I mean marriage.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
Ahh yes, be sure to read the fine print on the donor card.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
No, no, I had kids to provide spare organs for myself when my original ones wear out... why would I let some other sucker have those organs?
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
Come now, 60hr+ workweeks are not good for anyone long term.
They consent. That's what marriage is all about. And that's why there usually are "penalties" when a marriage ends. You can't consent to being raped or murdered or beaten, but marriage is (unless other arrangements are specifically made) a sharing of all matters financial. Try getting out of that loan your husband defaulted on when the bill collectors come around by saying "but that was him not me!".
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
we used to have unions to fight BS like this and then the work place got there GOP friends to kill them.
Just because they put it on your plate doesn't mean you have to eat it.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
An employer who is too lazy to bother checking who actually works and who doesn't and instead resorts to a spreadsheet and a BMI calculation?
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
job discrimination based on your health is not ok in the usa
Just because they put it on your plate doesn't mean you have to eat it.
I very rarely eat out at restaurants because the portions for their smallest plates are too still large for me to eat in one sitting.
> balance of power
But what if I think it is a useful thing? The government has terminated my right based on a hypothetical. Better yet, an unelected bureaucrat has done so.
If you *personally* choose to wear a Fitbit (or similar device), you can give the data to whoever you want. There is nothing stopping you. So your rights are unaffected.
As the GP said, this is about preventing companies from coercing employees into intrusive monitoring; especially outside working hours. And BTW, in Europe the national Privacy (or Data Protection) Authorities are established by (and accountable to) the elected governments to enforce the privacy legislation enacted by the government.
Take a similar scenario. Some car insurance companies offer drivers a discount if they agree to have a device fitted to their car which records everywhere they go, when they go, and how they are driving. Drivers are free to voluntarily accept such a device if they choose. But the companies cannot penalise drivers like me who prefer to forego the discount rather than submit to such intrusive monitoring.
Canadian Citizens have rights afforded by the Constitution which can not be signed away, no matter how deep you buried it, and privacy is one of those rights.
Trust me on this.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
The fitbit has been on the market for how long now? Two years?
Before the fitbit there was simply no convenient, off-the-shelf and affordable way to collect people's body operating characteristics.That emerged with fitbit.
Then it will have taken awhile for knowledge of this technology to spread as far as those employers. They will have taken some time to hit on the idea, and set up a programme to start keeping tabs on their workers in this way. How long will that have taken? Half a year from the launch of fitbit?
Then it will have taken whatever governmental department we're talking about here some time to take notice in the first place (I'm guessing they only noticed because someone complained), assign it a priority, set up a team, officially figure out what was actually going on, and formulate a Governmental Position on the subject.
So if this governmental department issued a ruling now, it can't have taken them more than about 1.5 - 2 years to go from complaint to ruling. Not all that slow, as governments go, right?
Because there's precedent for "voluntary" activities not actually being voluntary. Many years ago, there was a very large US automobile maker who had a secret hidden step in the hiring process. They'd hand the prospective employee a form to fill out for taking a "voluntary" charitable deduction from your paycheck. It turned out that if he filled out a zero, he was shown the door because they didn't want to hire anyone who wasn't charitable.
So, apply that kind of mentality here. "Welcome to EvilCorp, here's your Fitbit. You should know that EvilCorp has a Fitbit challenge to see which company division can get the most steps, and I'm proud to say that our division always beats the accounting department because everyone in our department participates. Of course you don't want to let us down, do you?"
Now ask yourself: Is that employee voluntarily providing his health data?
What difference could that data possibly make to an employer? What if the HR department is told to control the costs of providing long term disability benefits, so they decide to put out a sliding scale: healthy employees pay $5/week, non-healthy employees pay $10/week. And they assign your "healthy" status based on whether or not you get 10,000 steps a day, and whether or not you use tobacco. How much of that is voluntary? How much of that should be permitted?
John
I think you are choosing NOT to consume the whole meal because of your weight.
That's correct.
Don't try to lie and say that it fills you up fast.
Which I didn't.
Because if you are 350+ pounds, I highly doubt you get full from a meal at a restaurant.
I feel full 20 minutes after I finish a small meal. Most people overeat because they're waiting to feel full and often end up feeling bloated instead. You're making the assumption that because I'm overweight that I must be a glutton.
Keep making excuses for your life of excess. The blame falls squarely on your shoulders, brother.
I'm on a low-carb diet and I go to the gym. I'm doing more than what many of my skinny friends are doing. What more would you have me do?
If you're living on 1500 calories for "several days" then you should be razor thin.
No, thanks. I want to keep my muscle mass, which makes toning down a bitch.
And to think that nobody would have figured that out if government wasn't pressured into limiting the length of the legal work day. Our lives use to be as much "all work, no pay" as it was in China long ago prior to the government stepping in.
ie: In reality, employers will work you to the bone then replace you if they could. It's cheaper than keeping you around for 30-40 years and giving you raises.
Consider some of the big industrial projects starting off in North America lately tend to adopt a fly-in-fly-out setup. Fly you in (generally as a temporary contractor) for 4-6 weeks in, 2-3 weeks out. During those weeks in you're worked to the bone 12+ hours a day and live in company lodging. If you can't recover in those weeks off, you'll eventually get worn out. At which point your contract is just not renewed, no questions asked.
There are some operations that have been around longer and had a fully unionized workplace with a town springing up around it... that are now desperately trying to change into the above model... with fairly damaging results for the town.
A 350lb person on a 2000 calorie a day diet will lose weight, no exceptions.
The last time I ate 2,000+ calories per day was when I did weight training, going from 325 pounds to 400 pounds. I fell back to 350 pounds after I stopped weight training and went on a 150 grams low-carb diet four years ago. My calorie intake is probably less than 1,500 calorie per day these days.
Everyone knows that dietary calories are in fact kilocalories. EXCEPT YOU APPARENTLY. Smartass.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
Unless you're a world class bodybuilder you probably can do without all the food.
I've read a few books.
You can't outrun your fork.
The only time I ever outrun my fork when weight training pushed up from 325 pounds to 400 pounds on 2,000+ calories per day. I stopped weight training and settled down to 350 pounds because I had trouble finding 4XL shirts.
150 grams of carbs isn't low carb at all.
An average American male eats 2,512 calories and 296 carbs per day. So I'm restricting myself to one-half the average.
http://livehealthy.chron.com/average-american-diet-calorie-intake-2960.html
The stuff you post just doesn't gel together in a reasonable fashion.
This is Slashdot. You must be new around here.
mmm...nuralpeptide cake.
Right there... *points at his penis*
Years ago, I passed out drunk and woke up with some fat chick blowing me. I did the only sensible thing, I let her finish. I passed out there a week later and damned if it didn't happen again! I was traumatized! Well, not really traumatized. I never did see her a third time and I'm not even able to remember her name, if I ever knew it. She could suck a dick.
But yes, I guess that counts as a fat person touching me sexually without permission. I was only in town for a short while so we've never stumbled into each other again. She had the body of a Greek god, in fact, several of them. At least a couple of Silenus (spelling? the fat one that was a follower of Dionysis). But man, she could puff a pee-pee. No, no I was not traumatized at all.
For those playing the home game, she's a friend of The Grape Ape's* sibling. Or at least was, buggered if I know what happened in the intervening years.
*: His nickname. We went home with him on leave. Good people and not to be mistaken for Boddie.
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
You're a fucking retard.
I can't deny that. I was misdiagnosed as being mentally retarded due to an undiagnosed hearing loss as a kid and spent eight years in special ed. I skipped high school and went straight four years at community college (two years for remedial courses, two years for major courses). A decade later I went back to community college to learn computer programming and made the college president's list for maintaining a 4.0 GPA in my classes.
Be all smug about your so called diet but you're failing.
I'm not one of those extremists who eat 27 grams of carbs per day. My diet works because it was the same diet my late father was given after he became diabetic and got out of the hospital. I was forced to go on it because he was living with me for two months. My mood swings leveled out after I lost 20 pounds. That was four years ago. This is a journey of ups, downs and plateaus.
I have more respect for fat asses who admit that they're fat asses and don't give a damn.
I don't. They're the ones who have given up. Then again, you probably feel comfortable around people who have given up.
If you manage to build a wall around Texas and Oklahoma, the obvious thing to do next would be to fill it with water.