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Windows 10 Upgrade Reportedly Starting Automatically On Windows 7 PCs (softpedia.com)

Posted by BeauHD on from the do-you-want-the-following-program-to-make-changes-to-this-computer dept.

An anonymous reader writes: Many users have confirmed in the comment section of a popular reddit post that "Windows 7 computers are being reported as automatically starting the Windows 10 upgrade without permission." It's no secret that Microsoft wants users to upgrade to their new OS. Earlier in the year, Windows 10 was set as a 'recommended update' so when you install new security or bug patches, the new OS is selected by default as well. Terry Myerson, head of the OS group at Microsoft, warned users about the possibility of the OS automatically installing. "Depending upon your Windows Update settings, this may cause the upgrade process to automatically initiate on your device. Before the upgrade changes the OS of your device, you will be clearly prompted to choose whether or not to continue," he said. Whether or not the recent outcry is caused from users forgetting to deselect the Windows 10 upgrade in the update list or Microsoft updating Windows 7 PCs without users' permission, the good news is that you have 30 days to downgrade to the previous version of the OS.

50 of 370 comments (clear)

  1. Will Someone Please! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Will someone please sue these fuckers!

    Please?

    1. Re:Will Someone Please! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Hear, hear! As a European, I have been saying for months, where the hell are the European Commission in regard to this!? They should have been all-over it months ago!

    2. Re:Will Someone Please! by Z00L00K · · Score: 2

      They take a few years to react to things like that unless they fall victim to it themselves.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    3. Re:Will Someone Please! by superwiz · · Score: 3, Informative

      You don't the authorities to get involved when the technical solution to stop this is so simple. It's all done through task scheduler. Erase the registry keys which mention GWX and the task scheduler won't run telemetry on your pc or call GWX at all. I can see complaining to the law if MS made it impossible to do without some insider knowledge. But when it's right there on the surface (a bunch of tasks scheduled in task scheduler), I'd say complaining about it to the law is like complaining that you don't like the bugs in javascript on some website.

      --
      Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
    4. Re:Will Someone Please! by JSG · · Score: 5, Interesting

      "Will someone please sue these fuckers!"

      In the UK there is something called the Small Claims Court which is designed for, well, small claims. It costs very little to get into and involves magistrates (IIRC). The fees are here https://www.gov.uk/make-court-.... Lawyers are generally frowned upon as I recall because it is a form of arbitration between reasonable people.

      It might not sound very exciting but you claim for your costs for reinstating your system after it was broken. So if you do it yourself, you might price your time at say £20 per hour (reasonable) or you might hire outside help at say £30ph. It will take say five hours to find and copy all your data off to a USB disc that you had to buy at say £80 plus the two hours trip to town. Then you have to restore your system from source - let's say you still have a Windows restore partition - that will take a good two hours. Then you have to patch it - another five hours. Reinstall your apps - another five hours.

      So 5*20 + 80 + 2*20 + 2*20 + 5*20 + 5*20 = 17*20 + 80 = £420 minimum

      That's for someone who knows what they are doing and are being reasonable. For an IT duffer then the £30+ph is more likely because they will need professional help (receipts please).

      The whole point of this is that MS (if they really are pushing forced installs) will end up with some form of court judgment against them and you will get recompense. The SCC is not a get rich quick scheme. It is designed as an easy to use and cheap way of reclaiming monies. It has worked very well for me and some friends in the past. In one case the threat of SCC was enough to make a very, very large multi-national do the right thing because of the fact that the SCC is a serious court and a judgement against you can look a bit shit (especially when publicised.)

      Now, if after restoring your system it does yet another win 10 breakage then you can always do it all again. If a few 1000 people do this it could be interesting.

      I am making a big assumption here which is that you will probably have to persuade the magistrates that your system was broken by MS's automatic "update". You would have to make a formal claim to MS first requesting payment for your time. You would also have to demonstrate that they refused to comply.

      Worth a crack though

      Cheers
      Jon

    5. Re:Will Someone Please! by Cognitive+Dissident · · Score: 3, Interesting

      If enough of us ask nicely, or not so nicely, the FTC might sue them.

      Send your complaints about Microsoft's unfair and unethical behavior to: antitrust@ftc.gov

      This is the official address for reporting antitrust violations. I think trying to leverage the near universal presence of old versions of Windows on PCs worldwide to force acceptance of the new version qualifies as abuse of market position. The FTC might agree with enough public comment/complaint. People who have experienced the "involuntary upgrade" problem are likely to be especially influential. If you know anyone who has experienced this, pass that address along to them.

    6. Re:Will Someone Please! by Darinbob · · Score: 3, Informative

      Note that Windows 10 sill force upgrades for Home, Pro, Enterprise, and Educational editions. Yes, that's ALL editions. W10 Pro allows you to "defer" upgrades for a few months, but security updates can't be deferred. Enterprise and Education editions can stop all updates except for security updates which are required to be upgraded, but at a certain point there will be the next major upgrade (ie, Windows 11 except that they'll still call it Windows 10) and you won't be able to get that version without allowing all upgrades through. I think that Enterprise edition is not even available as an individual purchase so a home or small business can't even get it.

      Notice that security updates will *always* be applied and you can't disable them on any edition. Sounds good perhaps. But also notice that just a few days ago Microsoft added a fucking advertisement to a "security" update. This means that Microsoft is perfectly willing erase the line between high priority security updates and and lowest possible priority general purpose updates. The only assurance we have that Microsoft will act responsibly in this matter is their word, and their word is useless as they have lied over and over again without even the decency to look slightly ashamed about it.

      Now yes, there are ways to disable updates on Windows 10; but it's pretty harsh as it blocks all updates (basically disable the update service). There's also a tool from Microsoft that can be used to hide an update, but you have to use it after the fact to undo an update instead of proactively stopping them.

      This update policy makes Mozilla Firefox and Google Chrome look absolutely sane in comparison.

  2. Witnessed it personally by ArchieBunker · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Showed up for work last Monday and saw one box had switched over even after telling the nag screens NO. I had to do the uninstall because we have software that does not work properly under 10. I can't recommend GWX Control Panel enough. It removes all signs of 10 and even the 4Gb of files it downloads without telling you.

    --
    Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
  3. This is the newer, software Microsoft?! by surfdaddy · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I'm running the GWX control panel so hopefully that will prevent this.
    I'm running Win10 on my secondary laptop and while it's nice, it doesn't add any features I find important, and I really don't like my OS becoming an advertising program. It nags me to buy the latest version of Office (which I don't need or want). Lord knows what else MS has in store in the future.
    I'm thinking that Linux desktop or a Mac are in my future once Win7 support runs out in a few years. I'm not going to be coerced into an ad program by Microsoft.

  4. As a win10 user I recommend by Snotnose · · Score: 4, Interesting

    you be sure to upgrade your machine back to Win 7/8 within that 30 day limit. Win10 is flakey, and getting flakier. Not talking about metro, the telemetry, the midnight reboots when your laptop is closed. I'm talking just weird little things that happen randomly, like you hit the back button in your browser and the browser minimizes to the task bar, or click 'Reply' in email and the window goes full screen. Never repeatable, never consistent, took me a couple weeks to decide that no, I wasn't hitting the wrong thing by mistake.

    Seems to get a little worse with every "update" they install.

    1. Re:As a win10 user I recommend by Khyber · · Score: 2

      "that is to change USB-keyboards to PS/2 models to combat disappearing keyboards"

      That actually doesn't help. I keep getting keyboard/mouse loss issues on my fiance's computer. Just recently, 10 decided its own iastor.sys was corrupt, and refused to boot altogether. A few hours later, suddenly, it works as if nothing ever happened.

      Windows 10 is utter and complete garbage.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    2. Re:As a win10 user I recommend by Darinbob · · Score: 2

      The thirty day limit is for the simple revert in the case where Windows 10 was installed in-place instead of being a clean install. You can always do a clean reinstall after the thirty days.

  5. SubjectIsSubject by p0p0 · · Score: 5, Informative

    My grandma accidentally updated to Windows 10 from 7 because of their shifty practises. My dad called me to say that everything on my grandmas computer "was different" and no one had changed everything.
    She has mild alzheimer's and forgets short-term so we can have the same conversation 3-4 times in an hour (which gives you lots of time to prepare an answer), so she forgot she had clicked okay when Windows Update had asked to upgrade. I'm glad I'd gone around when I had because there was only a week left before the change was irreversible.Thanks for the timebomb, douchebags
    I would have left it. She does nothing on the computer besides Facebook and Solitaire but the performance was awful. All these new features and crap were beyond her realm. I downgraded her and found a tool that hides/deletes all the Windows 10 update crap so it wouldn't happen again.

    She got hit by ransomware last week despite only using Facebook. I reckon it was one of those inescapable ads that warn you you're infected then proceed to catch you in a "Ok/Cancel" loop where Cancel just opens a new prompt.

    She has nothing on that computer so I just nuked the drive and stuck Linux Mint on there and with some themes and such she can't tell the difference.
    Year of the Linux Desktop amiright?

  6. EULA by Sax+Russell+5449D29A · · Score: 2

    I wonder what happens if you don't accept the end-user license agreement. Surely it must ask for acceptance before it does anything.

    --
    -SR
    1. Re:EULA by rudy_wayne · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I wonder what happens if you don't accept the end-user license agreement. Surely it must ask for acceptance before it does anything.

      I just read an article yesterday which recommended exact;y this as a way to deal with the problem. Just don't accept the EULA and Windows 10 won't be installed.

    2. Re:EULA by PCeye · · Score: 2

      After declining, It confirms if you want to use the last restore point (presumably the point when Windows 10 hijacked your Windows 10 install).

    3. Re:EULA by nuckfuts · · Score: 4, Informative

      My son came home a couple of days ago to a surprise installation of Windows 10 on his desktop computer. When he was prompted to accept the EULA he chose "No". This resulted in the computer being rolled back to Windows 7. However, after restarting in Windows 7 a timer was displayed on the screen showing how long before the "update" was reinstalled. There was no option to cancel the process, only an option to delay it. So apparently you can say no to Windows 10, but they'll just shove it back at you again.

      After killing gwx.exe and gwxux.exe via Task Manager, I merged the following registry keys to disable automatic OS upgrades:

      Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00
      [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\GWX]
      "DisableGWX"=dword:00000001
      [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUpdate]
      "DisableOSUpgrade"=dword:00000001
      [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\WindowsUpdate\OSUpgrade]
      "AllowOSUpgrade"=dword:00000000
      "ReservationsAllowed"=dword:00000000

      Time will tell if this remains effective.

  7. Action Center has started nagging too by hackertourist · · Score: 4, Informative

    I've got Windows Update set to download, but notify me before installing. This has been fine for years, today the Action Center ("resolve PC issues") sees this as a "problem" that it wants to resolve by switching updates to Automatic. I don't think so, Bob.

  8. ok by superwiz · · Score: 2

    do this: search your registry for GWX and GWXTriggers. and erase all entries which contain them. Done. Both telemetry and upgrades are ran by taskscheduler based on different triggered events. Task managers keeps the list of the tasks to run and the triggers which schedule them in the registry. On the plus side, you'll probably see a speed up in harddrive access, too. Because the telemetry eats quite a bit of the IO.

    --
    Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
  9. some things can't be used in 10 by wendyo · · Score: 2

    Had a client that I rolled back to 7. The next day it tried to go to 10 again. I then used GWX control panel, and it still gave her a screen that she tells me only gave the choice to put it off for up to three days. She chose the farthest away. I used this registry key.

    HKLM\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUpdate
    DWORD value: DisableOSUpgrade = 1

    Hope it works.

  10. Re:What Is Your Environment? by ArchieBunker · · Score: 4, Informative

    Your guess was correct. Windows 7 Pro not on a domain. Looks like the update was changed to critical and that's why it was automatic.

    --
    Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
  11. Re:GWX Control Panel stopping it? by superwiz · · Score: 2

    Just posted the method below in here http://news.slashdot.org/comme.... I guess I shoud mention that you'll need to change the permissions on those registry keys (by first taking ownership). Or you won't be able to erase them.

    --
    Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
  12. Thom Hartmann show live stream went down... by KaLeVR1 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The Thom Hartmann syndicated radio show got a rude introduction to Microsoft's new upgrade policy yesterday when their YouTube live stream server went offline and started upgrading while they were on the air. Thom Hartmann was freaking out and asking if listeners could help them switch to Ubuntu. They simulcast on terrestrial radio, Siriusxm, YouTube, and Free Speech TV. Hartmann was updating viewers on the upgrade completion percentage because viewers were complaining about losing their feed. He was livid but what can one do at that point?

    --
    Peace, K1
    1. Re:Thom Hartmann show live stream went down... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Which is the default setting, if you remember.

    2. Re:Thom Hartmann show live stream went down... by KaLeVR1 · · Score: 2

      I agree. Blaming the user is so sysadmin isn't it? In what other industry would you do that? "My engine just shut off in the middle of rush hour traffic." "Well what were you doing driving a consumer-rated car during rush hour, moron?"

      Sometimes people buy things and simply want them to work. An automatic upgrade IS NOT NORMAL for Windows. Updates yes but upgrades, no. Mr. Harmann is the victim of a special, hopefully one-time rule change.

      The guy who does "IT" for him is the guy working the sound equipment and this guy is also a lawyer. How good can his IT skills be?

      --
      Peace, K1
    3. Re:Thom Hartmann show live stream went down... by thegarbz · · Score: 3, Interesting

      if interrupted will result in lost work. But you seem to suggest that it is OK to auto-upgrade and lose work on a home PC ? Why - are home PC users not important ?

      Is that all? A friend of mine had $2000 of damage to his telescope as a result of a windows upgrade. He's a home user with a home hobby. Stupidly he had windows 7 set to automatically install updates. He had his telescope software set to a sequence to take photos on the east side of the sky, flip around when the object got to the meridian and keep imaging till it was on the west side until sunrise where it would park back to the normal position. Normal operation for an equatorial mount is that it drives in one direction to compensate for earth rotation until told otherwise by software. Well at 3am his computer went down for a windows update.

      When he woke he found a telescope with a camera that had hit the ground and had broken USB socket, broken power socket, broken glass on the CCD chamber, the tube on the telescope had bent and the motor in his mount had burnt out.

      Losing work may be the normal default, but there are some cases where home users do something a bit more advanced with their OS. It was actually a good test case, he's showing now that despite the prevalence of special purpose apps on Windows if you try hard enough you can actually do astro-imaging on Linux, which is something which until he had his mishap everyone put in the too hard basket.

  13. Re:What Is Your Environment? by Z00L00K · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Changes like this means that we no longer will trust Microsoft and disabling Windows Update may be the only reliable option.

    --
    If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
  14. Re:Either Incompetent or Malicious. Or Both. by Lead+Butthead · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Either Incompetent or Malicious. Or Both.

    Whichever applies, you should uninstall this Windows-thing crap immediately.

    First time, I can accept incompetent. The second, the third and the forth? Hello? Are you fucking kidding me?

    --
    ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI!?
  15. Re:Good news? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Sadly, the majority of the population is too brain dead to do this, even with extensive help, not to mention the other issue of a re-install wiping out all their files (pictures, documents, etc) that they have never bothered to back up anywhere.

  16. Happened to one of my Win 7 Pro PCs on Friday by RojCowles · · Score: 2

    Immediately did the Windows 7 recovery which was unattended and smooth, to be fair to MS, but then I got a 1 hours countdown to Windows 10 install once I logged in, took about 4 clicks to navigate away from the "Go ahead and upgrade" buttons that were present at every step but did manage to cancel out.

    Changed the Windows Update setting so I no longer do automatic updates on this PC and hid the Windows 10 Update so hopefully it'll stay on Win 7 now.

    And while Win 10 seems perfectly usable, I let a spare laptop update itself and have Win 10 Insider running in a VM on another PC I'm old enough to believe in the *Personal* part of Personal Computer and having the Windows User Experience altered without my explicit consent is an absolute no-no, especially as I'm pretty sure Win 10 breaks a game I (still) like playing, Diablo 1 with the IPX over TCP/IP patch for local LAN play on Win 7 / Win Vista.

  17. The real solution by sjames · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I see a bunch of advice about how to jump through multiple flaming hoops to stay with Windows 7. Each works for a while and then MS sends out a new load of malware to again corrupt your PC. So here's the question:

    WHY THE HELL ARE YOU NOT MIGRATING TO SOMETHING ELSE??!!!?

    Just leave him. The abuse will not stop!

    1. Re:The real solution by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 2

      WHY THE HELL ARE YOU NOT MIGRATING TO SOMETHING ELSE??!!!? ...
      The abuse will not stop!

      at this point, i'm convinced they like the abuse.

      --
      Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
    2. Re:The real solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Seriously? You can restore a backed up VM image in no time compared to the time and effort it takes to roll back an unwanted Windows 10 update. There, now go to it.

  18. Unconscionable Contract by ytene · · Score: 5, Interesting

    What Microsoft have done with the W7 to W10 upgrade is equivalent to taking your car into a dealership for a routine service, except that when you get it back, you find that it's been turned into a mobile advertising platform, it has the words "Taxi" painted down the side and, even better, Microsoft get the income from rides you are now required to give to advertisers... In legal terms that's an "unconscionable contract", meaning a deal that is *so* one-sided that it is unfair to one party and therefore unenforceable under the law. Microsoft are simply better that most of their users are too stupid to realise that they have become the product.

  19. Cyberman Nadella by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    There needs to be a Cyberman Nadella pic to go along with the Bill Gates Borg.

    Cyberman: We have been upgraded.
    The Doctor: Into what?
    Cyberman: The next level of Windows. We are Windows 10. Every computer will receive a free upgrade. You will become like us.
    The Sysadmin: I'm sorry. I'm so sorry for what's been done to you. But listen! This experiment ends - tonight!
    Cyberman: Upgrading is compulsory.
    The Sysadmin: And if I refuse?
    The Doctor: Don't.
    The Sysadmin: What happens if I refuse?
    The Doctor: I'm telling you, don't!
    The Sysadmin: [With more authority] What happens if I refuse?
    Cyberman: Then you are not compatible.
    The Sysadmin: What happens then?
    Cyberman: You will be deleted. [Wipes the hard drive]

  20. What's the over/under on when... by ameline · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What's the over/under on when MS will flag GWX Control Panel as malware and have a "security update" remove it?

    My money is on 60 days.

     

    --
    Ian Ameline
    1. Re:What's the over/under on when... by mukinrestak · · Score: 2

      Nah, They'll save that for the 4th of July, because enabling telemetry and violating your rights is the patriotic thing to do.

  21. Re:Wondering the same thing. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Being in the EULA doesn't make it automatically legal. You can write stuff like "By pressing AGREE you AGREE to give us a million dollars, your wife, and all your future earnings" , but no court will see it as a binding agreement. The only legal stuff in the EULA is things like copying and reselling softare, trademarks, things like that. Most of those are already made law so the EULA is more like a reminder that these laws exist, not that the EULA magically allows any laws that the company wants to make true for their own benefit.

  22. Hit a friend of mine last night by Solandri · · Score: 2

    She was working late trying to get a report finished. At 6 pm I got a frantic call saying she was working when the computer suddenly started upgrading something by itself.* In a panic she had pulled the plug. Fortunately she was back to Win 7 when she booted, and I was able to guide her through the steps to prevent Win 10 from trying to force itself on her again. (It tried to install itself again while we were doing this.)

    So Microsoft succeeded in wasting an hour of her life when she was supposed to be back home in time to make dinner for her kids. When I was helping her buy and set up the system, I did pitch Linux or Google Apps as free alternatives. But she insisted on Windows and Office for compatibility with corporate clients and government forms. I suspect she'll be a lot more responsive to alternatives the next computer she gets.

    * If it's true that it's asking users before installing, my guess is she was hit by a long time Windows bug/feature. Other OSes distinguish between an app being in the foreground (on top of other apps), and having focus. Windows doesn't - the app in the foreground always has focus, and the app with focus is always in the foreground. One of the downsides of this approach is that if a warning dialog pops up while you're typing, your keyboard input is immediately directed to the dialog (it needs to be on top so it's in the foreground, and since it's in the foreground it has focus). When you hit space or enter, the OK button (which is usually pre-selected) receives that keyboard input as confirmation. So you'll be merrily typing away, a dialog flashes on your screen for a millisecond before disappearing, and you have no idea WTF you just agreed to. In the Unix systems I've used, the dialog pops up on top, but the app you were typing in retains focus and thus keeps getting all your keystrokes. To dismiss the dialog, you have to first click it to give it focus, then it'll accept your click or space or enter on OK.

    1. Re:Hit a friend of mine last night by Britz · · Score: 4, Informative

      MS Office 2007 now has more or less Platinum status in Wine 1.8

      MS Office 2007 supports both the old MS Office as well as the new XML Office files. And it is very cheap to buy used from Ebay.

      I recommend Kubuntu which is due in a couple of weeks.

  23. Re:What a PITA by RabidReindeer · · Score: 2

    Residual "phone home" stuff from Windows 10.

    Bet on it.

  24. Joke's on them by i+ate+my+neighbour · · Score: 3, Interesting

    C: drive in my Win partition is full. It refused to download even when I asked it to. Too stupid to work.

  25. Re:Good news? by unrtst · · Score: 2

    What fucking disk!?!? How many people actually get a disk these days?

  26. Re:Either Incompetent or Malicious. Or Both. by ameline · · Score: 2

    This is very true -- at least with Apple (love them or hate them) their users are their customers -- and they act like it (mostly). With Microsoft, as a windows user, you are *not* their customer. Their customer is the manufacturer of the computer, or your employer. With W10 and "windows as a service" you (and any information about you that can be gleaned through your use of a computer -- and that is *alot* of information) are one of their products.

    --
    Ian Ameline
  27. Re:Wondering the same thing. by Greyfox · · Score: 5, Funny

    You agree to Microsoft's dick in your ass when you buy one of their products. It's in their EULA. Microsoft may at any time install any random shit on your computer. And also put their dick in your ass. Totally legal. Everyone was all like "Well I guess I don't mind some dick in my ass as long as I can still play my games."

    --

    I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

  28. Windows is "over" at last? by rbrander · · Score: 2

    The one thing I'm NOT reading here is "What's wrong with a W10 upgrade?". For a while there, Microsoft was batting nearly 1000 - Win95, 98 and the NT that was there by 1999 were all improvements on the previous version. Everybody upgraded happily. Then it was like Star Trek movies, with every second one sucking, like ME and 2000.
    And now, with 8, 8.1 and 10, MS seems to be on a losing streak. I heard some good things about 10 at first, but they've trailed off in a litany of complaints; the negatives clearly outweigh the few positives.
    My employer was one of the ones that hung on to XP a long time - I think we were only fully to Win 7 by two years ago. The notion of another corporate-wide upgrade for 4000 machines is so exhausting that it's not even on the timetable, there's no budget to even start preliminary testing.
    If the big corporate buyers that are their mainstay are no longer upgrading, it means new capabilities aren't going to appear. They're going to be outpaced by other options. They've lost the momentum, the initiative.

  29. Re:Wondering the same thing. by Nunya666 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's in the EULA

    Citation needed.

    Please show us the EULA from Win7 that gives M$ permission to shove Win10 down our throats.

    After all, we did pay for Win7, so we have the right to use it as long as we want to.

  30. Small Claims: A good idea that doesn't always work by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 2

    A real problem with the Small Claims procedures here in England is that the time you can spend trying to figure out what you have to do and then going through the formal process can easily be worth more than what you would get back if you won a reasonable level of compensation for the original issue. Realistically, you might have to figure the whole thing out without the aid of a lawyer, because unlike most courts you typically can't claim costs for legal assistance even if you win. It seems that you also shouldn't expect to get compensation for your own time spent on the legal work, again even if you win.

    I have previously made a genuine effort to go after a small business that blatantly ripped me off for a few hundred pounds by changing its tune and failing to deliver what was originally promised. I had some reasonable evidence of this and could have made a decent case in about five minutes for why their in-writing version of events was completely implausible. However, I gave up in disgust when I still had no idea how to actually submit my evidence after probably £1,000+ worth of my time and reading dozens of pages of official documentation, and I then discovered that I probably wasn't going to be able to claim any sort of compensation for all that time even if I won and even though a significant part of it was wasted by the other party giving me the run around.

    Small Claims procedures, where you can get an official court ruling on a relatively minor dispute with very little cost to either side, are a great idea in theory. However, if you can't write down the important parts of the process on a single piece of paper in language a normal (not legally trained) person can understand and follow, the whole thing is in danger of wasting more time and costing more money than it saves. I'm sorry to say that despite being naturally inclined to litigate on principle anyway in a case like that, rationally I wouldn't even consider it in future if the case wasn't worth enough to hire a real lawyer at my own expense to help prepare even though I knew I wouldn't get those legal fees back no matter the outcome.

    --
    If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
  31. Re:Wondering the same thing. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Here is one example after 4 pages:

    "
    By using the software, you accept these terms. If you do not accept them, do not use the software.
    The updates or downloads are required for the proper functioning of the software and may be downloaded and installed without further notice to you.
    "

    So in legal text "update or download" means any data downloaded if specific cases are not listed.

    However I don't think this is a "nice" thing to do but many think Windows 10 is just a patch with fancy UI.

  32. Re:Wondering the same thing. by rochrist · · Score: 2

    Yeah, pretty sure Windows 10 isn't required for the proper functioning of windows 7.