Windows 10 Upgrade Reportedly Starting Automatically On Windows 7 PCs (softpedia.com)

Will Someone Please! by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-12 08:12 · Score: 5, Insightful

Will someone please sue these fuckers!

Please?

Re:Will Someone Please! by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-12 08:21 · Score: 4, Insightful

Hear, hear! As a European, I have been saying for months, where the hell are the European Commission in regard to this!? They should have been all-over it months ago!
Re:Will Someone Please! by Z00L00K · 2016-03-12 08:26 · Score: 2

They take a few years to react to things like that unless they fall victim to it themselves.

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If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
Re:Will Someone Please! by superwiz · 2016-03-12 08:36 · Score: 3, Informative

You don't the authorities to get involved when the technical solution to stop this is so simple. It's all done through task scheduler. Erase the registry keys which mention GWX and the task scheduler won't run telemetry on your pc or call GWX at all. I can see complaining to the law if MS made it impossible to do without some insider knowledge. But when it's right there on the surface (a bunch of tasks scheduled in task scheduler), I'd say complaining about it to the law is like complaining that you don't like the bugs in javascript on some website.

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Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
Re:Will Someone Please! by JSG · 2016-03-12 10:27 · Score: 5, Interesting

"Will someone please sue these fuckers!"
In the UK there is something called the Small Claims Court which is designed for, well, small claims. It costs very little to get into and involves magistrates (IIRC). The fees are here https://www.gov.uk/make-court-.... Lawyers are generally frowned upon as I recall because it is a form of arbitration between reasonable people.
It might not sound very exciting but you claim for your costs for reinstating your system after it was broken. So if you do it yourself, you might price your time at say £20 per hour (reasonable) or you might hire outside help at say £30ph. It will take say five hours to find and copy all your data off to a USB disc that you had to buy at say £80 plus the two hours trip to town. Then you have to restore your system from source - let's say you still have a Windows restore partition - that will take a good two hours. Then you have to patch it - another five hours. Reinstall your apps - another five hours.
So 5*20 + 80 + 2*20 + 2*20 + 5*20 + 5*20 = 17*20 + 80 = £420 minimum
That's for someone who knows what they are doing and are being reasonable. For an IT duffer then the £30+ph is more likely because they will need professional help (receipts please).
The whole point of this is that MS (if they really are pushing forced installs) will end up with some form of court judgment against them and you will get recompense. The SCC is not a get rich quick scheme. It is designed as an easy to use and cheap way of reclaiming monies. It has worked very well for me and some friends in the past. In one case the threat of SCC was enough to make a very, very large multi-national do the right thing because of the fact that the SCC is a serious court and a judgement against you can look a bit shit (especially when publicised.)
Now, if after restoring your system it does yet another win 10 breakage then you can always do it all again. If a few 1000 people do this it could be interesting.
I am making a big assumption here which is that you will probably have to persuade the magistrates that your system was broken by MS's automatic "update". You would have to make a formal claim to MS first requesting payment for your time. You would also have to demonstrate that they refused to comply.
Worth a crack though
Cheers
Jon
Re:Will Someone Please! by Cognitive+Dissident · 2016-03-12 10:48 · Score: 3, Interesting

If enough of us ask nicely, or not so nicely, the FTC might sue them.
Send your complaints about Microsoft's unfair and unethical behavior to: antitrust@ftc.gov
This is the official address for reporting antitrust violations. I think trying to leverage the near universal presence of old versions of Windows on PCs worldwide to force acceptance of the new version qualifies as abuse of market position. The FTC might agree with enough public comment/complaint. People who have experienced the "involuntary upgrade" problem are likely to be especially influential. If you know anyone who has experienced this, pass that address along to them.
Re:Will Someone Please! by Darinbob · 2016-03-12 15:46 · Score: 1

What baffles me is that slashdot has so many people stills supporting Microsoft and calling their actions beneficial or normal business practices.
Re:Will Someone Please! by Darinbob · 2016-03-12 15:48 · Score: 1

And then they take so many years to actually enforce things with Microsoft that the issues becomes moot.
Re:Will Someone Please! by Darinbob · 2016-03-12 15:50 · Score: 1

Simple for you, baffling technobabble to the average Windows customer.
Re:Will Someone Please! by Darinbob · 2016-03-12 16:02 · Score: 3, Informative

Note that Windows 10 sill force upgrades for Home, Pro, Enterprise, and Educational editions. Yes, that's ALL editions. W10 Pro allows you to "defer" upgrades for a few months, but security updates can't be deferred. Enterprise and Education editions can stop all updates except for security updates which are required to be upgraded, but at a certain point there will be the next major upgrade (ie, Windows 11 except that they'll still call it Windows 10) and you won't be able to get that version without allowing all upgrades through. I think that Enterprise edition is not even available as an individual purchase so a home or small business can't even get it.
Notice that security updates will *always* be applied and you can't disable them on any edition. Sounds good perhaps. But also notice that just a few days ago Microsoft added a fucking advertisement to a "security" update. This means that Microsoft is perfectly willing erase the line between high priority security updates and and lowest possible priority general purpose updates. The only assurance we have that Microsoft will act responsibly in this matter is their word, and their word is useless as they have lied over and over again without even the decency to look slightly ashamed about it.
Now yes, there are ways to disable updates on Windows 10; but it's pretty harsh as it blocks all updates (basically disable the update service). There's also a tool from Microsoft that can be used to hide an update, but you have to use it after the fact to undo an update instead of proactively stopping them.
This update policy makes Mozilla Firefox and Google Chrome look absolutely sane in comparison.
Re:Will Someone Please! by Darinbob · 2016-03-12 16:03 · Score: 1

The US government has already shown that it is scared of Microsoft. Only the EU had the balls to stand up to obviously illegal activities, only it was ineffective because of the extremely long legal process it has.
Re:Will Someone Please! by thunderclap · 2016-03-13 01:52 · Score: 1

actually they can. If you know what you are doing you can remove or corrupt the sll that works with update. This prevents all updates. However, if you need an update you can still manually download and install one. 10 is classified as a service pack and can't be downloaded that way.
Re:Will Someone Please! by superwiz · 2016-03-13 04:46 · Score: 1

Well, any solution which doesn't require writing a single line of code and which doesn't require any insider knowledge is a user-level solution. Just because you grandmother choses to have you do all the work for her, doesn't mean that EU should send police after MS. If your grandmother doesn't want to figure out how to use a remote control, does it mean that TV manufacturers should get dragged into court?

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Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
Re:Will Someone Please! by superwiz · 2016-03-13 04:56 · Score: 1

The nagware is attached to their webbrowser. Which is decoupled from the OS in its European version. It's not attached to components of the OS itself... only to an application (webbrowser) released by the same company. I know it's easy to knee jerk on the side of suspicion when it comes to MS, but they haven't yet crossed the line. You still don't need to write any code or know any internal info in order to disable the upgrade. In fact, task scheduler is a feature which is useful to users (and not just admins) of the OS. So they are using a user-level mechanism to allow users a free upgrade to an operating system. They have left a way to turn it off and to prevent any further checks if you want the upgrade in the user-level os functionality. In fact, disabling functionality will mean improved performance of the OS for most users (because it will turn off resource-intensive telemetry). So one could argue that the nagging is biased towards removing the upgrade-related features.

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Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
Re:Will Someone Please! by MoarSauce123 · 2016-03-13 23:30 · Score: 1

Will someone please explain the clueless and woefully uninformed users that downloading and installing GWX Control Panel takes a minute and prevents this all from happening?
Re:Will Someone Please! by MercTech · 2016-03-14 01:16 · Score: 1

Count me in.
My work computer (Panasonic Toughbook with proprietary telemetry software) had Win10 install itself and render the proprietary software unusable in addition to killing the serial ports. (yes, two old school DB9 connector ports. I guess, like floppy drives, they just aren't supported with Win10).
Wiping the hard drive and reloading did not work. Why? Because Microsoft has crippled the Win7 activation system and will not allow activation of a previously activated COA even on the same computer it was activated on. You don't want to hear my rant about the interactions with what came across as a Pakistani call center when I tried to resolve the activation issue.
Thanks to Microsoft games and being at a remote job site without a lot of IT resources; I had to pay for a hard drive with a pristine Win7 install complete with Toughbook drivers to get back working in a timely manner.

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NRRPT/RCT
Re:Will Someone Please! by beastofburdon · 2016-03-14 04:51 · Score: 1

What do you expect when Micro$oft now has keyloggers on the personal computers, and many work computers of the government. Micro$oft knows many of the crimes that they have committed, so they have a very large amount of leverage.
Re:Will Someone Please! by beastofburdon · 2016-03-15 07:12 · Score: 1

Have you read the EULA?

What a PITA by HalAtWork · 2016-03-12 08:14 · Score: 1

Is that a rollback to Windows 7, or install (7) on top of install (10) on top of install (7)? That's still a lot of coffee. Making sure all your apps and settings are preserved, and hunting down the proper settings to prevent it from happening again... for now.

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Twinstiq, game news

Re:What a PITA by Megol · 2016-03-12 08:17 · Score: 1

Rollback to the previous version unless something very strange is going on.
Re:What a PITA by RabidReindeer · 2016-03-12 09:55 · Score: 2

Residual "phone home" stuff from Windows 10.
Bet on it.
Re:What a PITA by maugle · 2016-03-12 10:39 · Score: 1

Funny you should mention the desktop. My Windows 10 installation (oh how I regret "upgrading") woke up from sleep this morning with all my carefully-arranged icons crammed into the top-left corner. In other words, Microsoft has been in the business of displaying icons on desktops for over 20 years, and yet it is still utterly incompetent at it
Re:What a PITA by CaptainDork · 2016-03-12 12:41 · Score: 1

Because icon placement is real important and stuff.

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It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
Re:What a PITA by Oligonicella · 2016-03-12 14:26 · Score: 1

No, because it's trivial and it takes purpose to screw it up after it's functioning correctly. But yes, it's important. It's how I arrange my workload.
Re:What a PITA by CaptainDork · 2016-03-12 16:01 · Score: 1

The icon arrangement on a Windows desktop is natively sorted alphanumerically.
Other configurations are random to the core.

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It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
Re:What a PITA by Darinbob · 2016-03-12 16:05 · Score: 1

OSX screws this up too on a regular basis.
Re:What a PITA by rpstrong · 2016-03-13 04:56 · Score: 1

It may not be of earthshaking importance, but if it isn't of at least some import, then why allow the user to do so in the first place?
Re:What a PITA by EndlessNameless · 2016-03-15 07:02 · Score: 1

No, you can't "Bet on it"
Windows 7 and 8 have their own implementations of telemetry. There is no reason for Microsoft to leave the telemetry code from another OS when it rolls back---and several reasons not to.
If OP has the associated Windows 7/8 updates, they can be uninstalled and blocked in Windows Update easily.

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According to the latest ruleset, this post should be modded as Vorpal Flamebait +5.

Witnessed it personally by ArchieBunker · 2016-03-12 08:15 · Score: 5, Interesting

Showed up for work last Monday and saw one box had switched over even after telling the nag screens NO. I had to do the uninstall because we have software that does not work properly under 10. I can't recommend GWX Control Panel enough. It removes all signs of 10 and even the 4Gb of files it downloads without telling you.

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Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard

Re:Witnessed it personally by tomhath · 2016-03-12 09:54 · Score: 1

It tried to install automatically for me too. The "Upgrade to 10" was hidden under Optional Updates and checked by default. If you let Windows install optional updates automatically, or you install them without looking to see what was preselected for you, it installs 10 without you requesting it.
Re:Witnessed it personally by blahbooboo · 2016-03-12 09:54 · Score: 1

Thank you for the GWX Control Panel tip! Never heard of that program and it's fantastic. I've decided to stay with Windows 7 for a long time as I still love 7, everything works perfectly on my install, and I have absolutely no reason to upgrade to 10

So, we all hate windows 10. by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-12 08:16 · Score: 1

But...the vast majority of users think it is fine. They don't care about this automated update business because, for most of them, it just works.

That's why Microsoft can get away with so much evil. It doesn't matter how much the technical community hates them, they get away with it, because the technical community is such a small percentage of their user base (and getting smaller by the day as people continue to exit the industry (at least in America) due to all the outsourcing).

Complain until you are blue in the face. Hell, switch to Linux if you are devoted enough to put up with all the hassle that Linux brings. It will make no difference. Microsoft does not care about you because you are too tiny a percentage of Microsoft's income.

Re:So, we all hate windows 10. by rubycodez · 2016-03-12 08:29 · Score: 1

because anything that doesn't function a tech person at work or a tech relative has to deal with it
Re:So, we all hate windows 10. by Lumpy · 2016-03-12 09:52 · Score: 1

Vast Majority? Are you INSANE?
The Vast majority have problems. Out of 10 friends and relatives with old machines all 10 had their computers screwed up by the "free" windows 10 upgrade because their 5 year old computers had hardware that does not have drivers for windows 10.
In fact this is the majority, People having it fail badly. The minority have it work flawlessly or have a 2 year old machine that was running windows 8.1

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Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Re:So, we all hate windows 10. by TheDarkMaster · 2016-03-12 11:56 · Score: 1

Short version, Windows 10 is a piece of shit to anyone who uses a computer for anything more than "tablet/shartphone-like" activities.

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Religion: The greatest weapon of mass destruction of all time
Re:So, we all hate windows 10. by HiThere · 2016-03-12 12:02 · Score: 1

Excuse me, but could you inform me of "the hassle that Linux brings". I've been using it for nearly a couple of decades now, and for at least the last decade it's been less hassle than was the MSWind I switched from.

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I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
Re:So, we all hate windows 10. by Mashiki · 2016-03-12 15:21 · Score: 1

10 upgrade because their 5 year old computers had hardware that does not have drivers for windows 10.
Must be some pretty esoteric hardware. Since windows 10 will run old dotmatrix printers from the 90's without even batting an eye, same with hardware telephone modems hooked up by parellel or serial ports.

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Om, nomnomnom...
Re:So, we all hate windows 10. by KingMotley · 2016-03-12 18:44 · Score: 1

Use the windows 8/8.1 drivers. That's exactly what lexmark tells you to do.
Re:So, we all hate windows 10. by hairyfeet · 2016-03-13 21:47 · Score: 1

I will be happy to, the "hassle that Linux brings" is VERY simple and completely self inflicted by the very devs that work on the thing...you see every time it starts getting stable they shit on the OS and send it back several years. this is why MSFT doesn't have to worry about Linux as the Bizarro devs will break the thing the second it starts looking like a real competitor!
Want some examples? Throwing away ALSA for Pulse which to this very day is the most BRITTLE component of any Linux install and most likely to break on upgrade/date, all the mainstream distros replacing the nice looking great running KDE 3 for KDE 4 when it wasn't even alpha quality, hell is it even gotten to 100% feature parity with the previous version yet? Ditto for Gnome 2 to gnome shell, and how could you forget Larry Potter and the ever spreading SystemD?
If the devs would just 1.- Quit ripping out functional system software, 2.- Focus on bug fixing and adding the latest hardware to the OOTB support? Frankly Linux could have opened up a can of whoop ass when Win "Oh Hai I'm a smartphone OS LULZ" 8 came out but it has never and will never happen because Linux worst enemy is its own developers.

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ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Re:So, we all hate windows 10. by HiThere · 2016-03-14 06:58 · Score: 1

OK. I've never experienced what you're complaining about on the stable branch of Debian with the sole exception of Gnome3. But perhaps my use case is quite different from yours.

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I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
Re:So, we all hate windows 10. by rubycodez · 2016-03-15 05:19 · Score: 1

stop mom & dad from using their home info/entertainment/family picture and news system? do you hate the elderly?
I'm thankful they're not on AOL!

Wondering the same thing. by waspleg · 2016-03-12 08:19 · Score: 1

How is this even remotely legal?

Re:Wondering the same thing. by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-12 09:06 · Score: 5, Insightful

Being in the EULA doesn't make it automatically legal. You can write stuff like "By pressing AGREE you AGREE to give us a million dollars, your wife, and all your future earnings" , but no court will see it as a binding agreement. The only legal stuff in the EULA is things like copying and reselling softare, trademarks, things like that. Most of those are already made law so the EULA is more like a reminder that these laws exist, not that the EULA magically allows any laws that the company wants to make true for their own benefit.
Re:Wondering the same thing. by Greyfox · 2016-03-12 11:01 · Score: 5, Funny

You agree to Microsoft's dick in your ass when you buy one of their products. It's in their EULA. Microsoft may at any time install any random shit on your computer. And also put their dick in your ass. Totally legal. Everyone was all like "Well I guess I don't mind some dick in my ass as long as I can still play my games."

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Re:Wondering the same thing. by Nunya666 · 2016-03-12 12:52 · Score: 5, Insightful

It's in the EULA
Citation needed.

Please show us the EULA from Win7 that gives M$ permission to shove Win10 down our throats.

After all, we did pay for Win7, so we have the right to use it as long as we want to.
Re:Wondering the same thing. by citizenr · 2016-03-12 15:00 · Score: 1

it works out to little under 2 billion dollars
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
or total invalidation of toilet paper you call EULA
https://www.techdirt.com/artic...

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Re:Wondering the same thing. by Darinbob · 2016-03-12 15:47 · Score: 1

Why is why so many corporations are insisting on agreements that forbid class action suits, which is the only practical option an individual has to make corporations behave.
Re:Wondering the same thing. by Pikoro · 2016-03-12 15:51 · Score: 1

Specifically because it's the only practical option an individual has to make corporations behave.

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"Freedom in the USA is not the ability to do what you want. It is the ability to stop others from doing what THEY want"
Re:Wondering the same thing. by mrprogrammerman · 2016-03-12 16:05 · Score: 1

Which EULA? Windows 7? I am find it hard to believe MS can upgrade users without getting them to accept the Win10 EULA.
Re:Wondering the same thing. by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-12 18:35 · Score: 2, Informative

Here is one example after 4 pages:
"
By using the software, you accept these terms. If you do not accept them, do not use the software.
The updates or downloads are required for the proper functioning of the software and may be downloaded and installed without further notice to you.
"
So in legal text "update or download" means any data downloaded if specific cases are not listed.
However I don't think this is a "nice" thing to do but many think Windows 10 is just a patch with fancy UI.
Re:Wondering the same thing. by davester666 · 2016-03-12 20:47 · Score: 1

It's just a Windows 7 security update.

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Re:Wondering the same thing. by thunderclap · 2016-03-13 01:49 · Score: 1

Wrong. Either EVERYTHING in the EULA is legal or nothing is. Everytime a EULA has been the basis of a lawsuit in the hopes to break its binding power, it has been setted out of court. On the other hand, because its based on a contract it is viewed as legal in the US. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
Re:Wondering the same thing. by rochrist · 2016-03-13 05:23 · Score: 2

Yeah, pretty sure Windows 10 isn't required for the proper functioning of windows 7.
Re:Wondering the same thing. by hairyfeet · 2016-03-13 21:23 · Score: 1

Its a broken clusterfucked POS is what it is. I installed Win 10 on nearly a dozen systems made in the past 6 years just to see what kind of shit I would have to be dealing with, these systems were due to be wiped anyway and I figured they would be a perfect test bench to let me see what will happen when some of my customers come in after getting "Win 10'd"...what did I find when I let MSFT "upgrade" these systems?
1.-Broken sound, 2.-broken networking, which frankly is a Godsend when that happens because if the networking DOES work MSFT slamming a dozen pages worth of phone home spyware down your pipe honestly slowed the network responsiveness WORSE than a "Secure Tool" infection, 3.-the dozen pages of spyware also slows the system down thanks to all the background shit running, 4.- the UI is every bit as much of a mess as Win 8, sure it has a start menu but once you try to do anything beyond passively use FB and start trying to tweak shit? You find its got settings splattered all over the place, hidden, and a bitch and a half just to find basic things, 5.- the drivers? A FUCKING JOKE, the Win 10 drivers are beyond barebone and basic (not to mention unstable as hell) and unlike Win 7/8 where it was pretty trivial to use previous drivers Win 10 will just become about as stable as WinME...
Hell I could go on all day, and please note that NONE of these systems were some old XP era junk, the oldest was a 6 year old C2D laptop that came with Win 7 and had 4GB of RAM, ALL of these systems were multicores, ALL of these systems had at least 4GB of RAM, hell to give Win 10 the benefit of the doubt I even popped in a spare SSD I had lying around into my own system that is less than a year old and let it "upgrade" a disc image of my Win 7 to Win 10....we are talking about a fricking octocore with 16Gb of RAM, SSD, R9 280 GPU and even with all that hardware it STILL was buggier and ran worse overall than the Win 7 I had installed, and this was after manually installing the latest Win 10 drivers for every piece of hardware!
The ONLY nice thing I can say about Win 10 is guys like me are making plenty of extra $$$ removing the "upgrade" after folks find it worse than what they had.

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ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Re:Wondering the same thing. by pesasa · 2016-03-13 23:32 · Score: 1

Reminds me of F-Secure and their "Herod clause". First born child mentioned. http://www.theguardian.com/tec...

This is the newer, software Microsoft?! by surfdaddy · 2016-03-12 08:20 · Score: 5, Interesting

I'm running the GWX control panel so hopefully that will prevent this.
I'm running Win10 on my secondary laptop and while it's nice, it doesn't add any features I find important, and I really don't like my OS becoming an advertising program. It nags me to buy the latest version of Office (which I don't need or want). Lord knows what else MS has in store in the future.
I'm thinking that Linux desktop or a Mac are in my future once Win7 support runs out in a few years. I'm not going to be coerced into an ad program by Microsoft.

I meant the newer, SOFTER Microsoft... by surfdaddy · 2016-03-12 08:20 · Score: 1

An error in the title.

GWX Control Panel stopping it? by Freshly+Exhumed · 2016-03-12 08:21 · Score: 1

Has anyone running GWX Control Panel seen this automatic WIndows 10 installation stopped/prevented?

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I deny that I have not avoided attaining the opposite of that which I do not want.

Re:GWX Control Panel stopping it? by superwiz · 2016-03-12 08:31 · Score: 2

Just posted the method below in here http://news.slashdot.org/comme.... I guess I shoud mention that you'll need to change the permissions on those registry keys (by first taking ownership). Or you won't be able to erase them.

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Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
Re:GWX Control Panel stopping it? by Freshly+Exhumed · 2016-03-12 08:38 · Score: 1

Yep, that's all good, but I'm asking about GWX Control Panel experiences since this latest issue started.

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I deny that I have not avoided attaining the opposite of that which I do not want.
Re:GWX Control Panel stopping it? by thunderclap · 2016-03-13 01:59 · Score: 1

Yes. I have it. And it has stopped it, twice. You need this if you have rejected 10.
Re:GWX Control Panel stopping it? by EndlessNameless · 2016-03-15 07:08 · Score: 1

Probably no one here.
You have to have Windows configured to automatically install updates. By default, this only includes critical updates. (There are three tiers: critical, recommended, and optional.)
There is a second option to receive recommended updates the same way as critical updates. This must be enabled too, as the Windows 10 update was only bumped up to recommended.
So you must have two settings for it to happen like that---one of which is not a default, and neither of which I'd expect a typical Slashdot user to have.

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According to the latest ruleset, this post should be modded as Vorpal Flamebait +5.

As a win10 user I recommend by Snotnose · 2016-03-12 08:22 · Score: 4, Interesting

you be sure to upgrade your machine back to Win 7/8 within that 30 day limit. Win10 is flakey, and getting flakier. Not talking about metro, the telemetry, the midnight reboots when your laptop is closed. I'm talking just weird little things that happen randomly, like you hit the back button in your browser and the browser minimizes to the task bar, or click 'Reply' in email and the window goes full screen. Never repeatable, never consistent, took me a couple weeks to decide that no, I wasn't hitting the wrong thing by mistake.

Seems to get a little worse with every "update" they install.

Re:As a win10 user I recommend by Lumpy · 2016-03-12 09:53 · Score: 1

the 30 day limit is fake. I did a clean reinstall back to Windows 7, 90 days out and the key activated just fine.

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Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Re:As a win10 user I recommend by Khyber · 2016-03-12 12:29 · Score: 2

"that is to change USB-keyboards to PS/2 models to combat disappearing keyboards"
That actually doesn't help. I keep getting keyboard/mouse loss issues on my fiance's computer. Just recently, 10 decided its own iastor.sys was corrupt, and refused to boot altogether. A few hours later, suddenly, it works as if nothing ever happened.
Windows 10 is utter and complete garbage.

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Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
Re:As a win10 user I recommend by Darinbob · 2016-03-12 16:20 · Score: 2

The thirty day limit is for the simple revert in the case where Windows 10 was installed in-place instead of being a clean install. You can always do a clean reinstall after the thirty days.
Re:As a win10 user I recommend by Darinbob · 2016-03-12 16:23 · Score: 1

Hmm. I was thinking I'd upgrade to Windows 10 Pro while it is still free. Rather than be forced to pay lots of money for it in the future when they stop supporting 8.1. But if they can't even get their OS sorted out in this time then something's wrong.
The whole new idea they have that Windows 10 is the last edition ever and it'll just apply rolling updates every so often forever, is just broken. More broken than even Firefox.
Re:As a win10 user I recommend by AmiMoJo · 2016-03-12 21:39 · Score: 1

That's a pretty clear sign that you have a failing hard drive / SSD. Reads of iastor.sys fail, but later when trying again (perhaps after the drive has cooled/warmed) they are okay and it probably remapped the sector too.

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Re:As a win10 user I recommend by Khyber · 2016-03-14 02:44 · Score: 1

ON ALL SIX HARD DRIVES AT ONCE? Bear in mind, an OFFICIAL Windows install media wouldn't even detect the hard drives when I plugged it in and tried reinstalling "You are missing a required CD/DVD driver for installation"
No, this is a known DPC_WATCHDOG_VIOLATION fuckup for Windows 10 - http://www.thewindowsclub.com/...

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Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.

What Is Your Environment? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-12 08:23 · Score: 1

What is your environment?

Which Windows version did you start with 7/8 Home/Pro...?
Was the computer a domain member?
Do you use WSUS?
Was Automatic Updates defaulted or had you enabled recommended and/or optional updates.

Based on your recommendation of GWX Control Panel, I'm going to guess that this was Windows 7 home/pro not a domain member with full automatic updates.

Re:What Is Your Environment? by ArchieBunker · 2016-03-12 08:31 · Score: 4, Informative

Your guess was correct. Windows 7 Pro not on a domain. Looks like the update was changed to critical and that's why it was automatic.

--
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
Re:What Is Your Environment? by Z00L00K · 2016-03-12 08:43 · Score: 3, Insightful

Changes like this means that we no longer will trust Microsoft and disabling Windows Update may be the only reliable option.

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If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
Re:What Is Your Environment? by BarbaraHudson · 2016-03-12 09:13 · Score: 1

Changes like this means that we no longer will trust Microsoft and disabling Windows Update may be the only reliable option.
Now that's a change I can get behind.

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"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
Re:What Is Your Environment? by Holi · 2016-03-12 10:49 · Score: 1

I went to work on Friday to see several of my domain attached windows 7 boxes with the dreaded windows 10 nagware. I am less then thrilled.

--
Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
Re:What Is Your Environment? by AmiMoJo · 2016-03-12 11:04 · Score: 1

I wonder if we are going back to the days of vast Windows botnets, because so many people disabled updates.

--
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Re:What Is Your Environment? by CaptainDork · 2016-03-12 12:43 · Score: 1

There are bad nasties looking for machines that have not been updated with security patches.

--
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
Re:What Is Your Environment? by BarbaraHudson · 2016-03-12 13:57 · Score: 1

And so what? It's going to be wiped one way or another at one point. Also, there's no reason that non-microsoft anti-malware software can't be updated.

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"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
Re:What Is Your Environment? by wierd_w · 2016-03-12 14:04 · Score: 1

Again, you can block installation of all further attempts by creating a dummy GWX folder in /%systemroot%/system32 and putting a DENY ACL for everyone on it, then making dummy registry keys and putting similar ACLs on those.
any time MS decides they want to put the dick in, the update service will be told no. No it can't write there, No it cant change that, and no that cannot be run.
Re:What Is Your Environment? by AbRASiON · 2016-03-12 14:25 · Score: 1

I can confirm several domain attached machines in my very small setup have at least had the files locally downloaded - no nagware (yet)
Re:What Is Your Environment? by reboot246 · 2016-03-12 15:00 · Score: 1

I'll take my chances. I'm already running anti-malware and anti-virus software. All Windows updates, including security updates now, are disabled and have been for months. I see Microsoft as a bigger threat than whatever wee beasties that may be out there.

I think most people here are savvy enough to keep their systems safe. The ones I am concerned about are the ones who don't know anything beyond turning on their computer and reading Facebook.
Re:What Is Your Environment? by CaptainDork · 2016-03-12 15:59 · Score: 1

Look at the exploit stats. Many take advantage of unpatched systems.

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It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
Re:What Is Your Environment? by CTU · 2016-03-12 16:03 · Score: 1

I never used automatic updates though I don't know all the updates that need to be avoided so I only got the ones I known about to stop the nagging.
Re:What Is Your Environment? by Darinbob · 2016-03-12 16:09 · Score: 1

Since many corporations have policy rules to automatically install security and critical updates, they would have a very good case for suing over actual damages involved in fixing up the mess. Enough corporations and Microsoft might have to apologize. The drawback is that most IT departments are total fans of anything from Microsoft and wouldn't want to raise a fuss over this.
Re:What Is Your Environment? by Darinbob · 2016-03-12 16:12 · Score: 1

And yet Microsoft is willing to stick an advertisement into a security update, so they clearly have no illusions about security updates being sacrosanct and instead treat them as mere product delivery mechanisms. Now people have to defend both against third party malware as well as Microsoft's own malware.
Re:What Is Your Environment? by Darinbob · 2016-03-12 16:16 · Score: 1

We have a security system based on trust. And that trust has vanished. From the start the whole idea of updates automatically installing them, or installing themselves with only a mere click event to start it up seemed insecure to me. But everyone said I was paranoid because Microsoft wouldn't sabotage their own customers and we should be able to trust them. Though I was really more worried about third parties hijacking the update mechanism. Now we see that Microsoft's marketing department were the ones to hijack the update mechanism.
I really hate it when my paranoia turns out to not be delusional.
Re:What Is Your Environment? by Z00L00K · 2016-03-12 18:37 · Score: 1

And now we can't be sure if the patch is actually fixing an exploit or if it's something that's pushed on us for the convenience of Microsoft.
The trust in Microsoft that they actually don't do anything nasty that may break our systems is gone now. Instead they push in an upgrade to a new OS version that may break our applications and either they stop working or Microsoft decides that the application you use works unreliably and uninstalls it even if it works well for you.
With the broken trust people are now starting to be willing to stand on their own and take their chances in the world.

--
If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
Re:What Is Your Environment? by thunderclap · 2016-03-13 01:56 · Score: 1

Thats why you have an excellent firewall, a responsible antivirus and a desktop monitor like winpatrol. IF, IF there is an highly needed security patch you can download that alone.
Re:What Is Your Environment? by dfsmith · 2016-03-14 11:18 · Score: 1

You had to use a browser and JavaScript to post your comment. How much do you trust those pieces of software?
Re:What Is Your Environment? by CaptainDork · 2016-03-17 04:13 · Score: 1

AND ...
You have the skills, desire, and time to nurture a new hobby of playing whack-a-mole.
The vast majority of people don't know what in Sam Hill you're talking about.
What about hem?

--
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
Re:What Is Your Environment? by thunderclap · 2016-03-20 02:55 · Score: 1

100 years ago no one but hobbyists knew how to drive a automobile. It was derided as a rich boy's toy. Most were taught how to ride a horse and how to maintain their wagon. Today there are no wagons of wood and riding a horse is a hobby. Everyone drives. Its a necessity.
Answer to your question is you learn. Maintaining a computer is no longer a hobby. Its not a toy. This and maintaining your digital self is as important as driving. That's what about them.

Good luck with that rollback by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-12 08:25 · Score: 1

or rather, have fun reinstalling. Your system is going to be broken.

SubjectIsSubject by p0p0 · 2016-03-12 08:25 · Score: 5, Informative

My grandma accidentally updated to Windows 10 from 7 because of their shifty practises. My dad called me to say that everything on my grandmas computer "was different" and no one had changed everything.
She has mild alzheimer's and forgets short-term so we can have the same conversation 3-4 times in an hour (which gives you lots of time to prepare an answer), so she forgot she had clicked okay when Windows Update had asked to upgrade. I'm glad I'd gone around when I had because there was only a week left before the change was irreversible.Thanks for the timebomb, douchebags
I would have left it. She does nothing on the computer besides Facebook and Solitaire but the performance was awful. All these new features and crap were beyond her realm. I downgraded her and found a tool that hides/deletes all the Windows 10 update crap so it wouldn't happen again.

She got hit by ransomware last week despite only using Facebook. I reckon it was one of those inescapable ads that warn you you're infected then proceed to catch you in a "Ok/Cancel" loop where Cancel just opens a new prompt.

She has nothing on that computer so I just nuked the drive and stuck Linux Mint on there and with some themes and such she can't tell the difference.
Year of the Linux Desktop amiright?

Re:SubjectIsSubject by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-12 14:49 · Score: 1

Year of the Linux Desktop amiright?
No, there are not enough techies in the world to install and support that on that many machines.
But there are enough paid shills from the Microsoft Astroturf Team to post on most of the tech sites about how Win10 is really okay, and we just just lie back and enjoy it. Perhaps think of England.
Re:SubjectIsSubject by Darinbob · 2016-03-12 16:28 · Score: 1

Unfortunately, it is really hard to train the relatives that you can't trust anyone on the internet. They seem to think you said not to trust anyone except for a few people who seem trustworthy; like Microsoft, or Google, or Apple, or their political party, or the JCPenney's sale, or that email from their cousin who's a nice person and would never send them a virus to click on, or even their anti-malware program. Seriously, I don't know how many times I have to uninstall Chrome on my mother's computer because Avast anti-malware keeps installing it.

Either Incompetent or Malicious. Or Both. by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-12 08:25 · Score: 1

Either Incompetent or Malicious. Or Both.

Whichever applies, you should uninstall this Windows-thing crap immediately.

Re:Either Incompetent or Malicious. Or Both. by Z00L00K · 2016-03-12 08:36 · Score: 1

As long as I need Windows for some VPN stuff I'm stuck.

--
If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
Re:Either Incompetent or Malicious. Or Both. by Lead+Butthead · 2016-03-12 08:45 · Score: 5, Insightful

Either Incompetent or Malicious. Or Both.
Whichever applies, you should uninstall this Windows-thing crap immediately.
First time, I can accept incompetent. The second, the third and the forth? Hello? Are you fucking kidding me?

--
ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI!?
Re:Either Incompetent or Malicious. Or Both. by hey! · 2016-03-12 09:58 · Score: 1

Third option: indifferent to users.
Putting users at a low priority is part of Microsoft's corporate DNA. And it makes sense. Microsoft products aren't ones users select and buy; they're selected for the users.

--
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Re:Either Incompetent or Malicious. Or Both. by ameline · 2016-03-12 11:00 · Score: 2

This is very true -- at least with Apple (love them or hate them) their users are their customers -- and they act like it (mostly). With Microsoft, as a windows user, you are *not* their customer. Their customer is the manufacturer of the computer, or your employer. With W10 and "windows as a service" you (and any information about you that can be gleaned through your use of a computer -- and that is *alot* of information) are one of their products.

--
Ian Ameline
Re:Either Incompetent or Malicious. Or Both. by Darinbob · 2016-03-12 16:32 · Score: 1

Remember earlier when this happened and Microsoft came out and said it was all a mistake and the update was not intended to automatically install itself? Well, it seems they were lying.

EULA by Sax+Russell+5449D29A · 2016-03-12 08:26 · Score: 2

I wonder what happens if you don't accept the end-user license agreement. Surely it must ask for acceptance before it does anything.

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-SR

Re:EULA by rudy_wayne · 2016-03-12 08:39 · Score: 5, Interesting

I wonder what happens if you don't accept the end-user license agreement. Surely it must ask for acceptance before it does anything.
I just read an article yesterday which recommended exact;y this as a way to deal with the problem. Just don't accept the EULA and Windows 10 won't be installed.
Re:EULA by PCeye · 2016-03-12 08:48 · Score: 2

After declining, It confirms if you want to use the last restore point (presumably the point when Windows 10 hijacked your Windows 10 install).
Re:EULA by jafiwam · 2016-03-12 09:35 · Score: 1

I wonder what happens if you don't accept the end-user license agreement. Surely it must ask for acceptance before it does anything.
I just read an article yesterday which recommended exact;y this as a way to deal with the problem. Just don't accept the EULA and Windows 10 won't be installed.
You will be left with a bunch of wasted hard drive space if you do that. (Win 10 auto downloads before hand.)
What's to stop them from continuing to nag about it? Not accepting it once doesn't mean they wont ask again, and again....
Re:EULA by nuckfuts · 2016-03-12 12:22 · Score: 4, Informative

My son came home a couple of days ago to a surprise installation of Windows 10 on his desktop computer. When he was prompted to accept the EULA he chose "No". This resulted in the computer being rolled back to Windows 7. However, after restarting in Windows 7 a timer was displayed on the screen showing how long before the "update" was reinstalled. There was no option to cancel the process, only an option to delay it. So apparently you can say no to Windows 10, but they'll just shove it back at you again.
After killing gwx.exe and gwxux.exe via Task Manager, I merged the following registry keys to disable automatic OS upgrades:
Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\GWX]
"DisableGWX"=dword:00000001
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUpdate]
"DisableOSUpgrade"=dword:00000001
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\WindowsUpdate\OSUpgrade]
"AllowOSUpgrade"=dword:00000000
"ReservationsAllowed"=dword:00000000
Time will tell if this remains effective.

Action Center has started nagging too by hackertourist · 2016-03-12 08:27 · Score: 4, Informative

I've got Windows Update set to download, but notify me before installing. This has been fine for years, today the Action Center ("resolve PC issues") sees this as a "problem" that it wants to resolve by switching updates to Automatic. I don't think so, Bob.

Re:Action Center has started nagging too by ShaunC · 2016-03-12 14:31 · Score: 1

Microsoft Bob(TM).

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Thanks to the War on Drugs, it's easier to buy meth than it is to buy cold medicine!
Re:Action Center has started nagging too by Darinbob · 2016-03-12 16:36 · Score: 1

Ha, I ignore that Action Center. It's completely moronic. But I went and had a look just now. One message. Warning me that I'm set to not download and not install automatically. So I disabled messages from Windows Update, as I'm sure that's what Microsoft intended users to do.
Re:Action Center has started nagging too by Darinbob · 2016-03-12 16:37 · Score: 1

I think that you can disable the Windows Update service from automatically starting.

ok by superwiz · 2016-03-12 08:28 · Score: 2

do this: search your registry for GWX and GWXTriggers. and erase all entries which contain them. Done. Both telemetry and upgrades are ran by taskscheduler based on different triggered events. Task managers keeps the list of the tasks to run and the triggers which schedule them in the registry. On the plus side, you'll probably see a speed up in harddrive access, too. Because the telemetry eats quite a bit of the IO.

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Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.

some things can't be used in 10 by wendyo · 2016-03-12 08:28 · Score: 2

Had a client that I rolled back to 7. The next day it tried to go to 10 again. I then used GWX control panel, and it still gave her a screen that she tells me only gave the choice to put it off for up to three days. She chose the farthest away. I used this registry key.

HKLM\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUpdate
DWORD value: DisableOSUpgrade = 1

Hope it works.

Pretty easy to bypass. by idbeholda · 2016-03-12 08:28 · Score: 1

Disable WGA and automatic updates on Windows 7.

Re:Pretty easy to bypass. by idbeholda · 2016-03-12 08:29 · Score: 1

Well, more technically, WAT, but basically the same thing, just a different name.

Thom Hartmann show live stream went down... by KaLeVR1 · 2016-03-12 08:32 · Score: 5, Interesting

The Thom Hartmann syndicated radio show got a rude introduction to Microsoft's new upgrade policy yesterday when their YouTube live stream server went offline and started upgrading while they were on the air. Thom Hartmann was freaking out and asking if listeners could help them switch to Ubuntu. They simulcast on terrestrial radio, Siriusxm, YouTube, and Free Speech TV. Hartmann was updating viewers on the upgrade completion percentage because viewers were complaining about losing their feed. He was livid but what can one do at that point?

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Peace, K1

Re:Thom Hartmann show live stream went down... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-12 09:53 · Score: 2, Informative

Which is the default setting, if you remember.
Re:Thom Hartmann show live stream went down... by Lumpy · 2016-03-12 09:55 · Score: 1

What can you do? you switch to your backup server.
That is what professionals do, Why they don't have a backup server really makes me question as to the quality of their techs and engineers.
Oh and WTF are they doing running their "server" on a desktop OS? Windows server would not have done and auto upgrade like that

--
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Re:Thom Hartmann show live stream went down... by tomhath · 2016-03-12 09:56 · Score: 1

Given that Microsoft recommends doing exactly what he did, I wouldn't be too harsh on him; it was enemy action.
Re:Thom Hartmann show live stream went down... by Alain+Williams · 2016-03-12 13:42 · Score: 1

Oh and WTF are they doing running their "server" on a desktop OS? Windows server would not have done and auto upgrade like that
You seem to be suggesting that it is OK for MS Windows to do an auto-upgrade on a desktop version of the OS. Many people use their PC at home to do stuff that is important to them: write letters, edit photos, ... all things that, if interrupted will result in lost work. But you seem to suggest that it is OK to auto-upgrade and lose work on a home PC ? Why - are home PC users not important ?
Re:Thom Hartmann show live stream went down... by KaLeVR1 · 2016-03-12 16:38 · Score: 2

I agree. Blaming the user is so sysadmin isn't it? In what other industry would you do that? "My engine just shut off in the middle of rush hour traffic." "Well what were you doing driving a consumer-rated car during rush hour, moron?"
Sometimes people buy things and simply want them to work. An automatic upgrade IS NOT NORMAL for Windows. Updates yes but upgrades, no. Mr. Harmann is the victim of a special, hopefully one-time rule change.
The guy who does "IT" for him is the guy working the sound equipment and this guy is also a lawyer. How good can his IT skills be?

--
Peace, K1
Re:Thom Hartmann show live stream went down... by Darinbob · 2016-03-12 16:39 · Score: 1

And for Windows 10 Home edition, the only option you have is "install now" or "install later". If you ignore it long enough it will install anyway.
Re:Thom Hartmann show live stream went down... by thegarbz · 2016-03-12 21:02 · Score: 3, Interesting

if interrupted will result in lost work. But you seem to suggest that it is OK to auto-upgrade and lose work on a home PC ? Why - are home PC users not important ?
Is that all? A friend of mine had $2000 of damage to his telescope as a result of a windows upgrade. He's a home user with a home hobby. Stupidly he had windows 7 set to automatically install updates. He had his telescope software set to a sequence to take photos on the east side of the sky, flip around when the object got to the meridian and keep imaging till it was on the west side until sunrise where it would park back to the normal position. Normal operation for an equatorial mount is that it drives in one direction to compensate for earth rotation until told otherwise by software. Well at 3am his computer went down for a windows update.
When he woke he found a telescope with a camera that had hit the ground and had broken USB socket, broken power socket, broken glass on the CCD chamber, the tube on the telescope had bent and the motor in his mount had burnt out.
Losing work may be the normal default, but there are some cases where home users do something a bit more advanced with their OS. It was actually a good test case, he's showing now that despite the prevalence of special purpose apps on Windows if you try hard enough you can actually do astro-imaging on Linux, which is something which until he had his mishap everyone put in the too hard basket.
Re:Thom Hartmann show live stream went down... by chihowa · 2016-03-13 04:42 · Score: 1

I hope that he also took the opportunity to redesign the system to fail safer. A few end of travel reed switches could have saved him from that and many other predictable failures.

--
If you want a vision of the future, imagine a youtube comments section scrolling - forever.
Re:Thom Hartmann show live stream went down... by thegarbz · 2016-03-14 05:39 · Score: 1

I hope that he also took the opportunity to redesign the system to fail safer. A few end of travel reed switches could have saved him from that and many other predictable failures.
Indeed it could, funny enough his system included such switches. But a design fault in the positioning of the switches means they often get disabled because they trigger before the meridian and the neighbours don't often appreciate a loud beep outside their bedroom windows at 2am when you're about to do a meridian flip.
Ultimately though the problem is pushing your hobby to the limit. Hobby equipment (even expensive hobbies) is generally not designed to be left outside all night while you're asleep and the majority doesn't come with such limits. It's also designed for continuous connection to a computer to control targeting, that computer can also set limits which prevent issuing of commands to slew to an invalid position or activate the park function if the scope moves out of range. The movement is typically so slow that it's not a credible scenario to have an issue while the equipment is manned.
There's only so much we have to work with, and really the only option available to many is retrofit something to cut the power. While that saves from equipment damage it does still cause many hours of grief as many mounts will then lose their parking locations, pointing models, periodic error correction information etc. Really this is something that manufacturers should be able to quite easily solve in a more sensible way.

you will be clearly prompted to choose = a lie by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-12 08:36 · Score: 1

‘you will be clearly prompted to choose whether or not to continue’ On my laptop, the only thing I can do in Windows Update is allow it to install itself. There's no option not to do it, and no option to install non-Win10 updates for Win7. Yes, you read that right. I can no longer install Win7 updates, because Windows Update wants me to upgrade to Win10.

Antitrust? by Etherwalk · 2016-03-12 08:36 · Score: 1

Showed up for work last Monday and saw one box had switched over even after telling the nag screens NO. I had to do the uninstall because we have software that does not work properly under 10. I can't recommend GWX Control Panel enough. It removes all signs of 10 and even the 4Gb of files it downloads without telling you.

If that is true, unfortunately it starts to sounds like an antitrust violation. While it's all based on the same kernel so arguably updates, they consider big enough updates to be separate products and should not be using their auto-update ability to force you to change operating systems when you explicitly deny permission.

I have no problem with an auto-update for home users after asking permission and explaining the security issues, though.

Re:Good news? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-12 08:47 · Score: 3, Insightful

Sadly, the majority of the population is too brain dead to do this, even with extensive help, not to mention the other issue of a re-install wiping out all their files (pictures, documents, etc) that they have never bothered to back up anywhere.

Happened to one of my Win 7 Pro PCs on Friday by RojCowles · 2016-03-12 08:48 · Score: 2

Immediately did the Windows 7 recovery which was unattended and smooth, to be fair to MS, but then I got a 1 hours countdown to Windows 10 install once I logged in, took about 4 clicks to navigate away from the "Go ahead and upgrade" buttons that were present at every step but did manage to cancel out.

Changed the Windows Update setting so I no longer do automatic updates on this PC and hid the Windows 10 Update so hopefully it'll stay on Win 7 now.

And while Win 10 seems perfectly usable, I let a spare laptop update itself and have Win 10 Insider running in a VM on another PC I'm old enough to believe in the *Personal* part of Personal Computer and having the Windows User Experience altered without my explicit consent is an absolute no-no, especially as I'm pretty sure Win 10 breaks a game I (still) like playing, Diablo 1 with the IPX over TCP/IP patch for local LAN play on Win 7 / Win Vista.

The real solution by sjames · 2016-03-12 08:48 · Score: 5, Insightful

I see a bunch of advice about how to jump through multiple flaming hoops to stay with Windows 7. Each works for a while and then MS sends out a new load of malware to again corrupt your PC. So here's the question:

WHY THE HELL ARE YOU NOT MIGRATING TO SOMETHING ELSE??!!!?

Just leave him. The abuse will not stop!

Re:The real solution by Gravis+Zero · 2016-03-12 11:52 · Score: 2

WHY THE HELL ARE YOU NOT MIGRATING TO SOMETHING ELSE??!!!? ...
The abuse will not stop!
at this point, i'm convinced they like the abuse.

--
Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
Re:The real solution by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-12 12:17 · Score: 3, Informative

Seriously? You can restore a backed up VM image in no time compared to the time and effort it takes to roll back an unwanted Windows 10 update. There, now go to it.
Re:The real solution by sjames · 2016-03-12 12:24 · Score: 1

The AC has a point. You can stick your data on a share to the Linux box and then roll back the Windows VM in an instant.
Re:The real solution by Darinbob · 2016-03-12 16:43 · Score: 1

I would. The only thing I really need Windows for is for some games. Sure there are games on Linux and they're getting better, but I play older games since I'm not the type who only plays the latest thing and then moves on forever. A lot of the older ones play on Linux but it's very difficult to get some to work right.
Though I am suspecting that soon enough I'll need to have a dual-boot system. Too bad that vmware and other options are so slow or I could just revert to a snapshot every week.
Re:The real solution by Darinbob · 2016-03-12 16:46 · Score: 1

Not many though, and definitely not older games where the publisher isn't in business.
There's also a problem in that Linux is getting more and more complex all the time. I used to manually administer some but the latest stuff from Ubuntu is confusing and documentation is no help when there are problems. To make it easier to use you have to resort to the Windows route and accept all defaults and restrict the amount of customization you do.
Re:The real solution by AmiMoJo · 2016-03-14 02:53 · Score: 1

But that's offset against the time I spend trying to make the software work right in a VM. I find that software which interacts with USB devices tends to be problematic in VMs, especially VirtualBox.
I've not had issues with unwanted Windows 10 updates yet. It seems easier to just block them for now, which fortunately is quite easy to do.

--
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Re:The real solution by ZorglubZ · 2016-03-15 01:18 · Score: 1

Damn, that's funny! Wish I had mod points....
Re:The real solution by thegarbz · 2016-03-15 03:22 · Score: 1

Nope, apparently I'm off topic.
People here lack a sense of humour :-)

Unconscionable Contract by ytene · 2016-03-12 08:52 · Score: 5, Interesting

What Microsoft have done with the W7 to W10 upgrade is equivalent to taking your car into a dealership for a routine service, except that when you get it back, you find that it's been turned into a mobile advertising platform, it has the words "Taxi" painted down the side and, even better, Microsoft get the income from rides you are now required to give to advertisers... In legal terms that's an "unconscionable contract", meaning a deal that is *so* one-sided that it is unfair to one party and therefore unenforceable under the law. Microsoft are simply better that most of their users are too stupid to realise that they have become the product.

Cyberman Nadella by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-12 08:55 · Score: 2, Funny

There needs to be a Cyberman Nadella pic to go along with the Bill Gates Borg.

Cyberman: We have been upgraded.
The Doctor: Into what?
Cyberman: The next level of Windows. We are Windows 10. Every computer will receive a free upgrade. You will become like us.
The Sysadmin: I'm sorry. I'm so sorry for what's been done to you. But listen! This experiment ends - tonight!
Cyberman: Upgrading is compulsory.
The Sysadmin: And if I refuse?
The Doctor: Don't.
The Sysadmin: What happens if I refuse?
The Doctor: I'm telling you, don't!
The Sysadmin: [With more authority] What happens if I refuse?
Cyberman: Then you are not compatible.
The Sysadmin: What happens then?
Cyberman: You will be deleted. [Wipes the hard drive]

What's the over/under on when... by ameline · 2016-03-12 09:02 · Score: 4, Insightful

What's the over/under on when MS will flag GWX Control Panel as malware and have a "security update" remove it?

My money is on 60 days.

--
Ian Ameline

Re:What's the over/under on when... by mukinrestak · 2016-03-12 10:30 · Score: 2

Nah, They'll save that for the 4th of July, because enabling telemetry and violating your rights is the patriotic thing to do.

Auto upgdate bricked machine by Mike_EE_U_of_I · 2016-03-12 09:04 · Score: 1

This happened to one of my machine.

Windows 7 automatically started Windows 10 upgrade. On boot up, the machine shows the initial Windows 10 screen and then the screen blanks and the computer never comes back.

Thanks Microsoft.

Re:Auto upgdate bricked machine by Noxal · 2016-03-12 11:22 · Score: 1

I don't think you know what "bricked" means.
Re:Auto upgdate bricked machine by Alain+Williams · 2016-03-12 12:07 · Score: 1

We are always being told that we must not use Linux since you ''cannot sue Linux if things go wrong''. I wonder what would happen if you were to (try to) sue MS for bricking your machine - including your wasted time and your lost income recovering from them bricking your machine ?
Re:Auto upgdate bricked machine by Khyber · 2016-03-12 12:42 · Score: 1

For the purposes of most users, this is bricked. They do not get external install media to work from, Windows 10 usually trashes your partition tables and boot loader so your recovery partition is fucked, and in my case, after 10 tried installing itself on one machine, I tried to reinstall 7 from my VENDOR-PROVIDED USB stick only to get "You are missing a required CD/DVD device driver for installation." I couldn't even detect fucking hard drives to install to (UEFI sees all of them just fine) with the vendor-provided Windows 7 install media THAT HAD WORKED MULTIPLE TIMES BEFORE. Windows 10 couldn't even repair itself because suddenly it couldn't even write to any hard drives.
It took me removing all of the drives and installing a fresh hard drive with a compatible pre-written Windows 7 image to it to get the machine back up and running as it should.
If you have to remove and replace hardware to fix something, that is effectively a brick and break.

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Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
Re:Auto upgdate bricked machine by CaptQuark · 2016-03-12 22:33 · Score: 1

What? You don't have a cold-metal-restore backup? You relied on the restore partition being left alone by all malware? All malware (in this case Win10) should leave your partition configuration just the way it is?

Sounds like you need to rethink your backup strategy soon. A full disk backup and an external copy of your BIOS setup is essential.

And you shouldn't have needed to swap hard drives to get your partition table configured again. DISKPART should have been able to do it, assuming you have a restore CD with a WinPE environment and can setup your UEFI and data partitions. I will admit your post doesn't state if you tried this or not, but I'll assume you didn't because you needed to swap to a pre-configured hard drive.

Your problem is similar to purchasing a new hard drive or SSD. You will need to configure the hardware before installing any OS. Assuming your hardware will always remain configured so you can restore Win7 from your vendor's restore media is a recipe for frustration.

DISCLAIMER: Yeah, I've been in your same situation before. It took me a while to collect the proper Ghost/Trueimage and BartPE/WinPESE tools for a true disaster recovery toolkit, but the peace of mind is worth the effort.

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Re:Auto upgdate bricked machine by Khyber · 2016-03-14 02:49 · Score: 1

"You don't have a cold-metal-restore backup?"
Doesn't work when install media will not detect hard drives.
http://www.thewindowsclub.com/...
That's why I had to install another hard drive - because even their option of replacing iastor.sys WON'T WORK WHEN WINDOWS SETUP CANNOT DETECT HARD DRIVES.
By the way, yes, that includes RESTORING FROM OFFICIAL EXTERNAL MEDIA. Did not work. Windows 10 and 7 setup BOTH could not see any hard drives installed in the system, PERIOD. Removing all of them and putting a new one in solved this issue.
Windows 10 couldn't even write to itself to repair itself.
I had a similar problem with Windows 7.

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Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
Re:Auto upgdate bricked machine by thejynxed · 2016-03-14 05:17 · Score: 1

This tends to happen if you're running the OS as primary/system on an SSD. This happens in Win7 through Win10, and I even saw a few reports of it happening on the 64-bit version of Vista with certain SSD brands.
Two things tend to happen: Your BCD Store gets corrupted, or the drive itself gets put into a "locked" mode that prevents the drive from being written to, and is a safety feature in the controller of the drive itself to prevent damage to the drive caused by illegal read/write operations (namely the OS and OS upgrades attempting to do things they shouldn't be doing at the time they are attempting to do them, triggering the lock).
I ran into this issue myself, and found it best now that I am using almost all SSDs and facing a situation where I have to restore from a backup or reinstall the OS, to simply turn the system off entirely, unplug all of the drives except the drive I have/want the OS to be on, then start the system again and finish what I need to do as far as a restore/installation goes.

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@Mindless Drivel: 100% of Twitter posts ever Tweeted.
Re:Auto upgdate bricked machine by Khyber · 2016-03-15 03:59 · Score: 1

"This tends to happen if you're running the OS as primary/system on an SSD"
Which I don't. OS only needs initial load-up plus whatever on-demand services it needs. Spinning rust is fine for that (7-ish second boot time in Windows 7 and negligible loading times for the other services) and programs get installed on an SSD (mostly games, I tell Audacity and other programs that are not access-intensive to go to spinning rust.)
The OFFICIAL installer for Windows would not see SIX FUCKING HARD DRIVES. TWO OF THEM IDE DRIVES.
Please try again when you know my system configuration, instead of guessing.

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Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
Re:Auto upgdate bricked machine by EndlessNameless · 2016-03-15 08:52 · Score: 1

I had this happen once. The installation GUI is very limited compared to the standard disk utilities.
The simple solution is to do a secure wipe of the boot disk using whatever utility the SSD manufacturer supplies. In my case, they had a bootable ISO. It took all of 5 minutes once I decided to try it.
It is likely that running diskpart would expose the underlying partitions and volumes. Nuking everything from there would probably also work.
I did the secure wipe because I ran diagnostics on the drive first, and the option was right there. Diskpart should work as well; I just haven't personally verified it.

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According to the latest ruleset, this post should be modded as Vorpal Flamebait +5.
Re:Auto upgdate bricked machine by thejynxed · 2016-03-20 09:25 · Score: 1

Spinning rust in some cases is not longer considered fine for that, even by the OS makers, and I'm sorry for considering that someone posting on Slashdot in "insert current year" might be using all SSDs or at least an SSD for their OS drive instead spinning rust that is being annually produced in fewer and fewer units and is steadily coming to head with the fact that it won't be any cheaper to purchase and use than an SSD, to the point that even Microsoft has coded in checks for an SSD that run before any checks for a non-SSD type drive into every OS since Server 2008.

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@Mindless Drivel: 100% of Twitter posts ever Tweeted.

Happened at home. by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-12 09:11 · Score: 1

While the sole Windows user was at school (but could have happened at night, too, with the notebook closed!).

I was asked if I did upgrade to Windows 10 (it was Windows 8 AFAIK), I said no and we were like dumbfounded -- me even more since I use only Linux.

A coworker asked how to avoid the automatic upgrade to W10 and I quite didn't know what to say... other than shrug and act like it's unavoidable. I just elaborated on why Microsoft needs it so desperately.

For these reasons I get disappointed with the low level some posters display when they confuse writing M$ as a protest with someone being childish. It shows how uninformed a person is about Microsoft tactics.

Pleb...We're installing Win 10 NOW, too bad! by PCeye · 2016-03-12 09:13 · Score: 1

On Thursday, I left my desktop PC idle to have supper. I went back to the room 2-3 hours later to find my system updated to Windows 10. Bunch of cunts. I'm glad this didn't happen at a time I needed the machine badly.

I tried declining the EULA, but the idea of restoring to an unobserved, unknown state seemed even riskier. I left Windows 10 on, but if updates are always going to be a nasty surprise for now on, I cant trust my system to be reliable when I need it. My system could have easily been hosed fresh for my on-line test this week - I'm glad my deadline wasn't on Thursday.

Hit a friend of mine last night by Solandri · 2016-03-12 09:23 · Score: 2

She was working late trying to get a report finished. At 6 pm I got a frantic call saying she was working when the computer suddenly started upgrading something by itself.* In a panic she had pulled the plug. Fortunately she was back to Win 7 when she booted, and I was able to guide her through the steps to prevent Win 10 from trying to force itself on her again. (It tried to install itself again while we were doing this.)

So Microsoft succeeded in wasting an hour of her life when she was supposed to be back home in time to make dinner for her kids. When I was helping her buy and set up the system, I did pitch Linux or Google Apps as free alternatives. But she insisted on Windows and Office for compatibility with corporate clients and government forms. I suspect she'll be a lot more responsive to alternatives the next computer she gets.

* If it's true that it's asking users before installing, my guess is she was hit by a long time Windows bug/feature. Other OSes distinguish between an app being in the foreground (on top of other apps), and having focus. Windows doesn't - the app in the foreground always has focus, and the app with focus is always in the foreground. One of the downsides of this approach is that if a warning dialog pops up while you're typing, your keyboard input is immediately directed to the dialog (it needs to be on top so it's in the foreground, and since it's in the foreground it has focus). When you hit space or enter, the OK button (which is usually pre-selected) receives that keyboard input as confirmation. So you'll be merrily typing away, a dialog flashes on your screen for a millisecond before disappearing, and you have no idea WTF you just agreed to. In the Unix systems I've used, the dialog pops up on top, but the app you were typing in retains focus and thus keeps getting all your keystrokes. To dismiss the dialog, you have to first click it to give it focus, then it'll accept your click or space or enter on OK.

Re:Hit a friend of mine last night by Britz · 2016-03-12 12:37 · Score: 4, Informative

MS Office 2007 now has more or less Platinum status in Wine 1.8
MS Office 2007 supports both the old MS Office as well as the new XML Office files. And it is very cheap to buy used from Ebay.
I recommend Kubuntu which is due in a couple of weeks.
Re:Hit a friend of mine last night by Britz · 2016-03-12 12:41 · Score: 1

I have to correct myself. You should use playonlinux, since the wine package in the official ubuntu repo is 1.6 and I suspect Wine 1.8 to work better with Office. And Playonlinux is quite a nice interface.
Re:Hit a friend of mine last night by Sir_Eptishous · 2016-03-14 07:11 · Score: 1

Other OSes distinguish between an app being in the foreground (on top of other apps), and having focus. Windows doesn't - the app in the foreground always has focus, and the app with focus is always in the foreground. One of the downsides of this approach is that if a warning dialog pops up while you're typing, your keyboard input is immediately directed to the dialog (it needs to be on top so it's in the foreground, and since it's in the foreground it has focus). When you hit space or enter, the OK button (which is usually pre-selected) receives that keyboard input as confirmation. So you'll be merrily typing away, a dialog flashes on your screen for a millisecond before disappearing, and you have no idea WTF you just agreed to. In the Unix systems I've used, the dialog pops up on top, but the app you were typing in retains focus and thus keeps getting all your keystrokes. To dismiss the dialog, you have to first click it to give it focus, then it'll accept your click or space or enter on OK.
Good Lord Sir, you have described something that has annoyed me to no end for years. I've never understood why Windows does this. It is anathem to good security, specifically because you can "press enter to continue" when an unknown dialog pops up while typing. I have had this happen, though not with WX, as I have been using GWX Control Panel for a while(works great!).

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We play the game with the bravery of being out of range

Welp, VM Won't get internet access by dogboi · 2016-03-12 09:40 · Score: 1

I have to use Windows for school, so I run Win 7 in a VM. I guess I will now make sure that VM instance doesn't connect to the internet. If I need to download a file, I'll download it to the host machine and move it over.

I wish they waited until they were out of beta by NotSoHeavyD3 · 2016-03-12 09:40 · Score: 1

Just saying since the only way to really fix the issue I had with no start menu (or any universal apps, yes I should count my blessings) was to either create a new account or reinstall windows. (I reinstalled it. No sfc and dism didn't fix it.)

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Did you know 80 to 90% of the moderators on slashdot wouldn't recognize a troll even if one dragged them under a bridge.

Re:Good news? by RabidReindeer · 2016-03-12 09:56 · Score: 1

People still get install discs with their computers?

Joke's on them by i+ate+my+neighbour · 2016-03-12 10:07 · Score: 3, Interesting

C: drive in my Win partition is full. It refused to download even when I asked it to. Too stupid to work.

Re:Joke's on them by volmtech · 2016-03-13 12:41 · Score: 1

Uh no, they thought of that. My 74 GB C: drive was full. Then one day I magically had 16 GB free. Even with Win 10 installed I still have 14 GB free. Something about 10 must be much small then 7.
I did mirror my drive so if it goes bad I can install to other drive.
Re:Joke's on them by Sir_Eptishous · 2016-03-14 07:14 · Score: 1

Maybe they just removed the older updates from the update cache to make room?
C:\Windows\SoftwareDistribution\Download

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We play the game with the bravery of being out of range
Re:Joke's on them by EndlessNameless · 2016-03-15 08:59 · Score: 1

The update cache is for new updates, and it is typically too small to make such a difference.
The uninstallers for previous updates occupy the WinSxS folder, and that folder can bloat significantly over the lifetime of a Windows install. I have personally seen 12+ GB, so this is a much more likely culprit.
Windows 7 and 8 have different methods for removing old update files. In 7, you install KB2852386 and run the Disk Cleanup wizard. In 8, you have to run DISM from the command line with the resetbase option.
In either case, Microsoft could have configured the installer to prep the system by performing similar operations in the background.

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Treating symptoms by Krakadoom · 2016-03-12 10:33 · Score: 1

Why aren't we instead discussing the reasons people do not want Win10 - a free "upgrade"? I understand MSs reasons to want everyone to be on the same platform so that they can move that platform to a service subscription model, but .. isn't the elefant in the room the obvious shortcomings of Win10 as "the last OS Microsoft will release" for the PC platform?

I mean if this is really to be the last large scale release, I'm puzzled by the obvious touchscreen focused UI, the frankly backwards styling and the amount of usability changes since win7 making migration a royal pain in the butt since pretty much everything has moved or been renamed. If you wanted to end on a high note, update the Win7 core and UI with the underpinnings of Win10 and call it a day.

Re:Good news? by unrtst · 2016-03-12 10:40 · Score: 2

What fucking disk!?!? How many people actually get a disk these days?

I want to hug my Mac by ZorinLynx · 2016-03-12 10:56 · Score: 1

All this stuff makes me want to hug my Mac and be thankful that Apple doesn't pull this shit.

Of course, that doesn't mean they might not pull this shit someday, and they already pull different shit (a security update broke the ethernet port on some iMacs recently for example). But every time I get annoyed at Apple about something I look across the aisle at Microsoft and it just seems a hell of a lot worse over there.

Also, Linux... My Linux server has been completely trouble free and stable as a rock.

Windows is "over" at last? by rbrander · 2016-03-12 11:21 · Score: 2

The one thing I'm NOT reading here is "What's wrong with a W10 upgrade?". For a while there, Microsoft was batting nearly 1000 - Win95, 98 and the NT that was there by 1999 were all improvements on the previous version. Everybody upgraded happily. Then it was like Star Trek movies, with every second one sucking, like ME and 2000.
And now, with 8, 8.1 and 10, MS seems to be on a losing streak. I heard some good things about 10 at first, but they've trailed off in a litany of complaints; the negatives clearly outweigh the few positives.
My employer was one of the ones that hung on to XP a long time - I think we were only fully to Win 7 by two years ago. The notion of another corporate-wide upgrade for 4000 machines is so exhausting that it's not even on the timetable, there's no budget to even start preliminary testing.
If the big corporate buyers that are their mainstay are no longer upgrading, it means new capabilities aren't going to appear. They're going to be outpaced by other options. They've lost the momentum, the initiative.

Re:Windows is "over" at last? by Howitzer86 · 2016-03-12 21:34 · Score: 1

Here are my problems with Windows 10:
The privacy controls - I don't know how well they work (reports are - "not well"), I may want to block some addresses with the router to keep it from sending packets of audio and video to the central servers "telescreen style", and some settings are in strange places. In 8 they're all together and are about 5 or 6 toggle switches, in 10, there's many more, and things like WifiSense are kind of hidden away and separate.
The forced upgrades / nagware on older OSes - It makes me not want to upgrade out of spite. I did it anyway for my Surface Pro (gen 1), because I'm still curious, but I'll never do it for my other computers. I retain a copy of the 8.1 key and software in case I want to go back after the first 30 days.
I turned off Cortana, so the only benefits left to upgrading is the sort-of-returned Start Menu, and the ability to run Universal Apps in a window - both features are kind of pointless on a tablet (turned off in tablet mode). So I guess the remaining benefit is that I'm keeping up with the app store... that I don't use... and Edge, which I also don't use... nevermind.
The final issue is that the license is not transferable. I plan to build a new machine soon. If I upgrade my license on the desktop I still have to buy Windows 10 for the new box. If the old box is going to keep any OS, it might as well stick to the one released during its era (the box before the box is being used as a security camera DVR, and retains Windows 7 even though I could have upgraded it to Windows 8, 8.1, or 10).
I will need to install GWX Control Panel on these machines to avoid any surprises. Upgrades tend to mess with software licenses - things like Zbrush, Unity Pro, and Max will absolutely break after an upgrade, and you'll have to re-activate, contact support, or both. They also mess with drivers - I still use an Intuos 2 Wacom tablet, and while I did confirm it works with Windows 10, the new OS is considered the "last", and will then be subjected to continuous, mandatory, gradual, and major updates that are for sure to break something that old eventually.
I practically shilled for MS when they released the Surface Pro (which I'm using for this post), but man, when MS wants to f-up badly, they know just how to do it. I hope they see the light soon. Any more of this and businesses will absolutely abandon Windows. I'm already hearing about PCs being upgraded at work. Its insanity.

nope, not on my laptop by FudRucker · 2016-03-12 11:27 · Score: 1

i did a clean install of windows 7, and it will never be allowed to connect to the internet ever again, i use it to run some SDR software because Linux still sucks in the ham radio department, look at the bright side, microsoft never gets to fiddlefuck with it, and it will never get infected with a virus because it never gets to see the internet and i even keep it shut off unless i am using my SDR

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Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing

Re:Good news? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-12 11:28 · Score: 1

You're funny. Instead of supplying optical media (as required *by*law* in many countries) the majority of OEM systems have a recovery partition to reinstall Windows 7 instead. Guess what... it gets upgraded during the Windows 10 install as well!

Re:Read the Eula by Alain+Williams · 2016-03-12 11:54 · Score: 1

Why is it that most of those supporting MS seem to post A/C ?

"good news is ... 30 days to downgrade..." by dpbsmith · 2016-03-12 12:44 · Score: 1

"The good news is that you have 30 days to downgrade to the previous version of the OS."

Imagine the average retail user, not expecting an upgrade, not prepared for an upgrade, so perhaps no recent backups and (if it's a home user) perhaps no backups at all. No IT department scan to check application compatibility and peripheral compatibility.

(And does this unsolicited upgrade check to make sure the computer meets Windows 10 system requirements?)

An installation on top of an existing installation, jumping two versions in between (8 and 8.1). But at least going in the direction Microsoft wants, and therefore probably SQAed as well as Microsoft knows how to SQA.

Now suppose the user attempts a downgrade to Windows 7. Another system installation on top of an existing installation, and again jumping over two versions, but this time going in the direction Microsoft thinks is unwanted and unimportant and probably has not tested quite as thoroughly.

What do you think are the chances it works _well_ afterwards?

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"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!

Small Claims: A good idea that doesn't always work by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · 2016-03-12 12:52 · Score: 2

A real problem with the Small Claims procedures here in England is that the time you can spend trying to figure out what you have to do and then going through the formal process can easily be worth more than what you would get back if you won a reasonable level of compensation for the original issue. Realistically, you might have to figure the whole thing out without the aid of a lawyer, because unlike most courts you typically can't claim costs for legal assistance even if you win. It seems that you also shouldn't expect to get compensation for your own time spent on the legal work, again even if you win.

I have previously made a genuine effort to go after a small business that blatantly ripped me off for a few hundred pounds by changing its tune and failing to deliver what was originally promised. I had some reasonable evidence of this and could have made a decent case in about five minutes for why their in-writing version of events was completely implausible. However, I gave up in disgust when I still had no idea how to actually submit my evidence after probably £1,000+ worth of my time and reading dozens of pages of official documentation, and I then discovered that I probably wasn't going to be able to claim any sort of compensation for all that time even if I won and even though a significant part of it was wasted by the other party giving me the run around.

Small Claims procedures, where you can get an official court ruling on a relatively minor dispute with very little cost to either side, are a great idea in theory. However, if you can't write down the important parts of the process on a single piece of paper in language a normal (not legally trained) person can understand and follow, the whole thing is in danger of wasting more time and costing more money than it saves. I'm sorry to say that despite being naturally inclined to litigate on principle anyway in a case like that, rationally I wouldn't even consider it in future if the case wasn't worth enough to hire a real lawyer at my own expense to help prepare even though I knew I wouldn't get those legal fees back no matter the outcome.

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Class Action anyone by gabrieltss · 2016-03-12 13:12 · Score: 1

I think a lawsuit over this could get class action status. This is where M$ could get hit hard over this. One would hope anyway....

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The Truth is a Virus!!!

Not good by easyTree · 2016-03-12 14:39 · Score: 1

It's not good when you can't even force your shit on people for free.

Disclaimer: I opted-in by purchasing a Windows 10 device.

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Requiem for the American Dream

How about pirated versions? by unixisc · 2016-03-12 15:34 · Score: 1

Will someone w/ a pirated version of Windows 7 - where one does not get automatic updates - also be forcibly upgraded to Windows 10? I know of many such installations, so would they be in luck?

Re:SIMPLE SOLUTION!!! by unixisc · 2016-03-12 15:36 · Score: 1

Only problem - you can't do anything internet on it - no emails, no youtube, no blogs, no /., no web browsing...

What I want to know ... by PinkyGigglebrain · 2016-03-12 15:39 · Score: 1

Why hasn't someone sued MS for time/productivity lost because one of these forced upgrades broke some mission critical piece of software?

Where I used to work we had a few servers that if they failed the productivity of the production floor would drop by about 30%, might not sound like much but in terms of labor and failed completion targets it could add up to thousands of dollars a day, And the software was pretty much locked to the OS, change the OS or update the wrong driver and it stopped working. I kept it air gaped and had updates set to manual, I'd open the cabinet and plug in the network cable every month or so to install updates.

$DEITY only know what the joker they promoted to replace me has done with my security measures, he thought RAID 1 was a suitable back up solution and you would not believe the number of infected files I found in the torrented software he had downloaded and installed before I took over the IT duties.

Re:What I want to know ... by EndlessNameless · 2016-03-15 09:07 · Score: 1

Competent IT shops have configured their systems to patch through a locally-maintained WSUS server.
A corporate desktop should never install the updates that enable telemetry or GWX prompts on Windows 7/8. Even if they did, there is a Group Policy option to suppress OS upgrades through Windows Update. They have to fail twice as hard as a home user to end up in that situation.
The GWX upgrade being set to "Recommended" still doesn't result in auto-installation with the default options.
Ignorance or incompetence are the only explanations for someone who finds an unexpected Windows 10 installation.

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Lies. All lies by mauriceh · 2016-03-12 15:55 · Score: 1

1) They do NOT prompt you.
A week ago we woke up to find my Wife's PC running Windows 10.

2) If you remove it, they do it again, over and over.

3) The cure and solution is a good piece of software that is free and easy to use:
GWX Control Panel

http://www.majorgeeks.com/file...

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Maurice W. Hilarius Voice: (778) 347-9907

Easy fix by CTU · 2016-03-12 16:52 · Score: 1

If a site does not let you use an ad blocker...go someplace else.

Re:Good news? by Z00L00K · 2016-03-12 18:54 · Score: 1

I have two, you can pry them from my cold dead hands.

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If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.

There is an official way to manage this... by thestuckmud · 2016-03-12 19:35 · Score: 1

No disrespect intended, but I don't know where GWX Control Panel comes from or what it might do to my system so I followed Microsoft's official instructions: How to manage Windows 10 notification and upgrade options. For those affected by this GWX malware, the process includes downloading and installing a not-automatically-distributed update (KB 3065987 or 3065988), setting a newly available group policy, and adding registry values.

The article is not exactly easy to follow - I do not recommend this approach to my non-techie friends and relatives - but it works, is officially sanctioned, and requires no extension of trust to a third party.

July 29th, 2016 by Howitzer86 · 2016-03-12 21:01 · Score: 1

Thankfully this all ends in July. I'm sure we'll get lots of cheerful statistics from Microsoft, but it'll be over and they'll leave us alone.

It's MY PC not theirs! by RubberDogBone · 2016-03-12 22:56 · Score: 1

One of my laptops is staying at Windows 7 because it's old, it runs 7 fine, it physically CANNOT run Windows 10 due to some BIOS issues, and anyway, all the things I use it for (mainly programing two-way radios) works just fine on a slow, old Windows 7 laptop.

It does not need to run Windows 10 for ANY reason. Not even security. This old laptop is not used for web surfing or banking or games or Facebook or porn or anything like that. It does not need to have updates for the next 10 years. It is extremely unlikely to acquire a security issue or virus or malware but it does have software loaded to prevent that.

So right now that laptop is fine. It will not go to 10 and has no need for 10. If they try to force 10 on it, it will NOT work and it will screw up the goddamn laptop. I know this because I already tried it to see what it would do and end result was having to restore the drive from a backup made before the attempt. 10 is fundamentally incompatible with this machine even if their update checker thing says otherwise. It won't work and they'd better not fuck up my machine.

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Sig for hire.

Volume license users don't get any option.... by weave · 2016-03-13 00:15 · Score: 1

Meanwhile many companies don't get that option. I managed a few small companies ... like 10-20 computers each. I took the OEM version of Windows 7 Pro and replaced it with a standard install using a volume license key that each company purchased to make management easier. Well unless you have Software Advantage, they can't upgrade to Windows 10 without paying. That's ridiculous. They paid for Windows 7 with purchase of new PC. If I hadn't wiped it and replaced it with a vol license install, they could upgrade to 10 for free. But no.... So you have to pay for Windows once, then again for the volume license install, then again to go to 10.

Re:Volume license users don't get any option.... by EndlessNameless · 2016-03-15 09:20 · Score: 1

If you buy Windows under a volume license, you should be getting Software Assurance. Otherwise, this is what happens. That has always been the way it worked.
Maintaining SA over the life of the system costs about as much as buying upgrades as they come out, but you get access to a lot of good tools in addition to upgrade/downgrade rights. If you also get SA on your server licenses and CALs, you can upgrade anything in the organization whenever you want without waiting for management to approve a new licensing purchase---simpler budgeting, easier migration planning.
Or you should have checked the terms before changing them over to your volume license. Microsoft was very clear from the beginning---no free upgrades for volume customers no matter what consumer/OEM licensees get.
Even now, you could reinstall from OEM media, activate with the OEM key, and upgrade to Windows 10.
If you're managing licensing for them and don't understand the implications of your decisions, you are doing them a disservice.

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Re:Volume license users don't get any option.... by weave · 2016-03-15 13:55 · Score: 1

I have SA for server licenses. It's ridiculous for desktops -- especially when businesses rarely upgrade their desktop OS and more often than not want to downgrade the OEM license that comes with a box.

Re:CEO by Cederic · 2016-03-13 04:57 · Score: 1

Oh, Microsoft's CEO is from the UK? I didn't realise. Which part?

Re:Good news? by rpstrong · 2016-03-13 04:58 · Score: 1

Those of us who used the OEM version either from the start or to upgrade their friends' machines.

There is agressive and then there is this. by allaunjsilverfox2 · 2016-03-13 06:31 · Score: 1

I mean, it seems like the equivalent of a door to door to door vacuum sales man knocking on your door. You answer you are aren't interested. Then they start hammering on your door, you are annoyed, but you ignore them. Then they are like, screw it. Sledgehammer your door open, start shouting about how awesome their product is as they start knocking things over with their unwanted vacuum. You try telling them that it REALLY isn't something that you want and they respond, I can't hear you over how awesome this vacuum is.

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Restore the madness of youth's lechery

BIG BROTHER is here, people! by martinfb · 2016-03-13 07:26 · Score: 1

Are you really okay with BIG BROTHER?! Welcome to '1984'!

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Self-importance and self-indulgence is the root of ALL evil.

I, for one, welcome our Microsoft Overlords by vandamme · 2016-03-13 14:20 · Score: 1

Hahahahahahahahha, JK, been on Linux for 4 years and enjoying the show "mit großer schadenfreude."

No sir by wkwilley2 · 2016-03-14 05:41 · Score: 1

I've already gone and disabled Automatic updates on my Win7 machine and so far after deleting the KB and GWX folders, I haven't had any issues.

I can't say Im too confident that it will stay that way for long as M$ is constantly looking for more nefarious ways to ram Win10 down my throat.

I did actually upgrade my Win8.1 Laptop to 10 and it's not bad, but I don't want that on my gaming rig. I'll gladly move to MintLinux or SteamOS long before that happens.

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Have you ever fallen asleep at the keybhanusdiog?

Re:No sir by Sir_Eptishous · 2016-03-14 07:33 · Score: 1

SteamOS/Linux Gaming is half the reason we even have any recourse from this bullshit.

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We play the game with the bravery of being out of range
Re:No sir by wkwilley2 · 2016-03-14 23:17 · Score: 1

As true as this may be, if Microsoft would try developing some quality software and really step up their game in response to the competition instead of developing an all-encompassing spyware platform, maybe I would feel differently.
Win7 is truly a great OS, even 7 years later and Win10 is doing nothing to preserve the legacy of the brand.
I will continue to use Win7 until it is either pried from my cold dead hands or Linux gaming has reached comparable adoption rates

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Have you ever fallen asleep at the keybhanusdiog?

Re:cannot just stand by by Sir_Eptishous · 2016-03-14 07:19 · Score: 1

Go Mint or Go Home.
Good call.

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We play the game with the bravery of being out of range

Funny WX Story by Sir_Eptishous · 2016-03-14 07:31 · Score: 1

Back in November we received some new PCs with very "niche" automation control software installed that we needed for some special hardware. The special software had many unique tweaks to get it to work with the hardware it was connected to.
The new PCs had Win8.1

We wanted 7 and tried to downgrade to it. However the license on the PCs wouldn't(easily) allow for that according to both MS and the company we bought the PCs/software from. Everyone happily said to just wipe and install 7, however we didn't want to lose the settings for the preinstalled/configured software... I spoke with someone at their company and I asked why they shipped these with 8.1 and not 7. They said we didn't ask for 7. They also told us in no uncertain terms were we to upgrade to WX, as that would break their software. They told me this as I was looking at the taskbar with "Get Windows 10 Upgrade", knowing that the clock was ticking on an automatic upgrade to 10, which would fubar the system. I told this to their developer and the irony was lost on him.

I backed up the preinstalled/configured software, wiped the PCs and installed 7, drivers, joined to the domain/GP, etc, the reinstalled the special software, then spent several days/emails/phone calls getting it working.

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We play the game with the bravery of being out of range

Re:Funny WX Story by EndlessNameless · 2016-03-15 09:27 · Score: 1

Talk about doing things the hard way.
You could just enable the Group Policy option that prohibits OS upgrades through Windows Update. With that set, even administrators cannot run the Windows 10 update.
Also, those tweaks are something you should probably script if it's time-consuming and the software is that important. This would ensure that all the settings are recorded somewhere and that the redeployment of machines can happen quickly when needed.

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According to the latest ruleset, this post should be modded as Vorpal Flamebait +5.

Re:Read the Eula by EndlessNameless · 2016-03-15 09:38 · Score: 1

Honestly, most of the posts trashing MS on technical points are crap. Either the understanding of the tech is wrong, or there is total ignorance of supported/recommended solutions.

I'm not supporting MS any reasonable sense. I hate W10 telemetry, and forcing it on users is bad.

I will not install the OS on my personal PCs unless I can shut it off. And I'm not buying a 5-pack of Enterprise licenses to do it (that's the smallest number to qualify as a volume customer, and it's more than I need).

But people here are complaining about an automatic process that only occurs if you let it. You must set Windows install updates automatically and also choose to receive recommended updates the same way as critical updates, otherwise it will not happen.

Windows Update asks you what you want the first time you run it, so this is on the user---if the user is even slightly tech-savvy. I have some sympathy for ignorant users, but the paranoid attitude on Slashdot is completely unfounded. There are at least four different ways to prevent this automatic upgrade from happening.

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According to the latest ruleset, this post should be modded as Vorpal Flamebait +5.

Slashdot Mirror

Windows 10 Upgrade Reportedly Starting Automatically On Windows 7 PCs (softpedia.com)

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