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US Says North Korean Submarine Missing (cnn.com)
An anonymous reader writes: The North Korean regime lost contact with one of its submarines earlier this week, three U.S. officials familiar with the latest information told CNN.
According to CNN, the U.S. military had been observing the submarine operate off North Korea's east coast when the vessel stopped, and U.S. spy satellites, aircraft and ships have been secretly watching for days as the North Korean navy searched for the missing sub. The U.S. is unsure if the missing vessel is adrift under the sea or whether it has sunk, the officials said, but believes it suffered some type of failure during an exercise. This comes after North Korea has threatened to use nuclear weapons at any time and turn its military posture to "pre-emptive attack" mode.
Can't wait to here it. Probably something about it being the worlds greatest stealth submarine that even NK can't see it.
Regardless of the politics, they ARE people. We should not dehumanize them. While the actions of North Korea may puzzle us, it would be better understood once one realizes that THEY lost over 500,000 fighting us in the 1950s, which pales in comparison to what is happening in Syria right now.
I would hope there can be peace between US and THEM ... While we ridicule them, they have a deep resentment that can be weighed in human lives.
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Wow. Really? Lost 500k people huh. You do know that they could have lost 0 people, if they hadn't tried taking over the entire peninsula and subjecting all of its people to poverty, misery, and repression. The 20/20 hindsight that we can and should use in this case teaches us that there was nothing right about violently instituting a communist regime in Korea.
Many Koreans and Chinese gave their lives in an effort to ruins the lives of millions. It's a shame they only lost 500k . . . maybe had more died, their regime would have collapsed back in the 50s, and the Korean peninsula wouldn't be subject to the living hell that the North suffers every day.
. . . a United States submarine has reported the loss of one MK 48 torpedo.
Modern diesel electric boats are very quiet and pose a challenge to those that worry about such things.
True, but I'm guessing this is one of their Romeo class because atsvwhich are quite old. At any rate, she would have had to snorkel at some point which would give away her location. That she hasn't doesn't bode well for her or her crew.
I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
Andre...You've lost ANOTHER submarine?
If the sub is really in serious trouble and the US Navy rescued the crew (and maybe took possession of the sub) it might be a pretty good PR coup. Treat the sub's sailors well - good food, some entertainment in SK to see how life is there, etc. - before repatriating them to the DPRK. Treat the sailors as we would expect our sailors to be treated in similar circumstances. Besides, it's the right thing to do.
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell
Unless you know something about the US Navy capabilities that I don't I doubt this is true. The US Navy has trouble tracking it's own assets. There are incidents of the US Navy running into other vessels at sea, including their own, because they did not see them.
This means that they cannot track vessels, in some cases, even if they could have reached out and touched them. Tracking a vessel many miles out is a much more difficult task.
A tactic used by drug smugglers is to build a semi-submersible built much like a diesel electric submarine. They'd submerge to a level that just the head of the pilot and a breathing tube would stick out. Out in the open waters they'd be powered by an off the shelf V-8 diesel engine but when approaching the (usually California) coast they'd run on batteries so that they would not be detected by passing Coast Guard. The Coast Guard and Navy are in big ships with brightly colored flags while they are in a sub with just a tiny little bubble for the pilot's head sticking out, the pilot can see them for miles but the pursuers would have to be on top of them to see them. If these guys can build a machine capable of this from parts obtained from a Home Depot and a Ford dealership then the North Korean Navy can build a ship with the backing of the Russian and Chinese governments that can be undetected from miles away and under hundreds of meters under water.
I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
I wonder if North Korea will puff this up into their own Gulf of Tonkin Incident
For those of you too young to have been of draft age during the Vietnam conflict, this pair of (possibly bogus) incidents were used as the excuse get Congress to pass the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution, giving the president (LBJ) the authority he used to puff a minor conflict into a major war without a declaration of war.
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
Modern diesel electric boats are very quiet and pose a challenge to those
that worry about such things.
True, but I'm guessing this is one of their Romeo class because atsvwhich are quite old. At any rate, she would have had to snorkel at some point which would give away her location. That she hasn't doesn't bode well for her or her crew.
Still, the PDRK aka North Korea have been building submarines, including perhaps the world's greatest program developing some very small "midget" variants, for a very, very long time. Some require the assistance of a mother ship but the largest of the midget type, the Samg-O Class (crew of 15), can operate independently.
It may also be a Sinpo Class (crew estimated of 30~50), the largest vessel and currently under active development to replace the Romeo Class. One has been observed under construction, others may be or have been built, and there is always the possibility of testing gone wrong.
Along with artillery, it's probably the military technology that the North Korean domestic industry is most proficient at. Although understood to be still inferior to the most modern western designs, that does not mean impotent, and the quiet running ability of Diesel-Electric subs is far from new and well understood; a 1970's era (40 years ago) level is sufficient for excellent results.
Considering how many missiles they've been firing at the sea, I can't be too surprised that the sea would decide to fight back.
Oh, no! You have walked into the slavering fangs of a lurking grue!
Christianity wiped out entire civilizations of the Americas and Africa, killing the vast majority of them because they were not "human". Counting the many millions killed in the name of one god or another, religion, it could easily be argued, has killed more people than any other unnatural source since the dawn of religion.
--- Keep the choice with the user..
I'm not sure if you've been following things lately, but her in the U.S., we're devolving into a dictatorship as well. So far, it's been government agencies becoming the dictators, but given the way we're going, I give us less than 50 years before we're an actual dictatorship, or a group of small dictatorships ruled over by our regional corporate dictators.
--- Keep the choice with the user..
And with all the knowledge already floating out there that a grad student in the USA has build a functional nuclear device that was only missing the fissionable material for it's core, and the fact that the USA made nukes with 1940s technology at a time period that even most scientist doubted it could be done, and North Korea has only in the last 2 years done anything that MIGHT be a nuclear detonation, but it was so wimpy compared to even the two used on Japan that the experts at analyzing this kind of stuff have publicly stated doubts about it having reached critical mass!
So just because someone in this or another first or even second world country could do it with access to home depot, don't make bets that the NK can.
Factually speaking there has never been communism. Communism as implemented in Stalinism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... and Maoism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/..., was purely branding when called communism, nothing more. As for environmentalism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/..., seriously?!? As for the politics of North Korea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/..., so not communism either. Capitalism kills every single year of it's existence, including wars for profit and a speciality famine, in fact it is accepted that capitalism had its origin in slavery.
Fact is no political system ever survives the psychology of psychopathy and that genetic cerebral defect will corrupt every possible political system over which the gain influence and or control. Capitalism of course can far more accurately be described as psychopathic capitalism as it does reflect the psychology of psychopathy expressed as a socio economic structure.
Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
This is interesting. You clearly hold your views very strongly. I wonder if your views will change when presented with evidence to the contrary or if you will find a new way to rationalise your views.
1. DDT was never banned as a method for controlling disease vectors and is still in use to keep malarial mosquitos suppressed. Here's an article about the treaty banning DDT
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
Feel free to find the article text and verify that as of Annex B, Part 1, that DDT is in fact still allowed for malaria control.
2. Widespread indiscriminant use of insecticides is a terrible idea because resistance to the insecticides devlops. And in fact resistance in mosquitos has developed. If you want to make sure it remains as potent as possible an insecticide for malaria control, about the best thing you can do is ban it for everything except malaria control. That way there is less opportunity for resistance to develop, and given that agriculture used far, far more DDT than disease control, it's agriculture that was responsible for the majority of the devlopment of DDT resistance.
So there you have it, you're actually wrong about DDT on two counts.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
"They" aren't responsible for this: the actions of NK are nothing to do with the "people" and the lives of grandparents who were lost. It's entirely to do with a very small, powerful ruling class.
Strongly disagree. They are responsible for what is done in their name that they do not stop, just as we are responsible for what is done in our name that we do not stop. Thus, you and I share responsibility for drone murder, attempted genocide in Panama, funding the ongoing attempted genocide in Israel, etc. Pretending otherwise is candy-assed bullshit.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
The two are not separable. If you recognize a government as ruling, you recognize it as legitimate. We most certainly do recognize the Russian government as legitimate--there are embassies and everything. (The current Russian ambassador to the US is Sergey Ivanovich Kislyak, and the current US ambassador to Russia is John Francis Tefft). We don't recognize their annexation of certain territories, most notably the Crimean peninsula, but that's a different matter. With the re-establishment of relations with Cuba, there aren't many governments in de facto power we don't recognize. Taiwan's the most important; we had to withdraw our recognition in order to establish relations with the People's Republic of China.
Christians wiping out civilizations is not the same as Christianity wiping out those civilizations. The root cause of the genocide was empire building rather than following the precepts of Christianity. Which is not to say that Christianity was not root cause of some slaughter both in Europe and in the Western hemisphere. But, if you go purely by body count, Christianity would not rise to the level of murder rate of environmentalism even if you did blame it for the full genocide of the native Americans. The Western Hemisphere population was roughly 10mil at the time because there was no animals usable as work force to create farming societies. Even if you assume that 90% were killed, that would be over centuries and would be far cry from the dozens of millions killed by environmentalists in the 20th century.
Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
starvation is a much lesser occurance in capitalist countries than in any other system of social arrangement. in fact, over eating is a higher cause of health problems and is more associated with being poor than starvation in capitalist countries.
Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.