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Personalized Learning: the Best Education Or the Worst?

theodp writes: In an exclusive interview with Education Week, Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg talked about why he is shifting his K-12 giving priorities to personalized learning. While acknowledging that there's not yet any independent, large-scale research to show personalized learning's effectiveness, Zuck argues that "the model just intuitively makes sense." But just days later, Fordham University professor Mark Naison wrote in the Washington Post about why the personalized learning efforts of 'a growing number of those with investment capital seeking profitable outlets,' which presumably includes Zuck, make him 'incredibly pessimistic' about the future of public education. That Zuck — like fellow personalized learning cheerleaders/funders Bill Gates and former U.S. Education Chief Arne Duncan — seemed to be unaware of studies on personalized learning studies that date back to the '70s is troubling. But people don't "Like" 40+ year-old Ed.gov papers, so Zuck could be forgiven for not seeing them and, as a result, believing that the personalized learning plan dashboard his Facebook engineers knocked out truly is the ground-breaking solution to 'one of education's biggest problems' that Melinda Gates cracks it up to be.

143 comments

  1. Personalised by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Personalised is the way to go. It doesn't matter how much is spent on public if there's even one psychopathic bully shitting on it all. And there's often a lot more than one.

    1. Re:Personalised by ganv · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Yes, all the studies showing problems with personalized learning are simply showing that we had not yet figured out how to do it well. There is simply no way that a one-size-fits all bureaucracy can educate as well as a system with tools that allow teachers to tailor activities to individual children. The problem is that personalized education is a much harder problem than many believe. It is easy to make an app that adapts the math problems assigned to a student's performance. But it is much harder to produce group learning activities that match varied skills. And if you put kids each on a single computer which is 'personalized', you can be sure they will learn less than if they are working together learning the social skills and executive function needed to succeed in the world. Eventually we'll succeed in personalizing teaching of social skills, executive function, reading, and math. But it is a hard problem.

      In many ways the problem is like artificial intelligence. It is a much harder problem than people thought. But that doesn't mean that it is impossible and as parts of it are solved it slowly changes everything.

    2. Re:Personalised by NotDrWho · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yes, all the studies showing problems with personalized learning are simply showing that we had not yet figured out how to do it well.

      No, we know exactly how to do it *well*. Each student's parents just need to hire an individual full-time tutor for their kid, who can then teach them in whatever way best suits that individual kid.

      The problem is that we haven't found a way to to it *economically* or *practically* for all those students whose parents can't afford to hire an individual tutor.

      --
      SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.
    3. Re:Personalised by XxtraLarGe · · Score: 0

      It is easy to make an app that adapts the math problems assigned to a student's performance. But it is much harder to produce group learning activities that match varied skills. And if you put kids each on a single computer which is 'personalized', you can be sure they will learn less than if they are working together learning the social skills and executive function needed to succeed in the world.

      There are plenty of other activities that allow students to gain social skills, it doesn't need to be a part of every area of study. The goal of personalized learning is to bolster the basic skills needed for academic success; to allow those who can excel to go further, and to help lift up those who are struggling.

      In my experience, both as a student and a teacher, group activities usually result in a few students doing the bulk of the work while the others slack off. And even if you have a peer rating on the project, the slackers will often times give those who contributed to the project bad scores just to try & cover for themselves.

      --
      Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
    4. Re:Personalised by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, all the studies showing problems with personalized learning are simply showing that we had not yet figured out how to do it well.

      Yes, all the studies showing problems with group learning are simply showing that we had not yet figured out how to do it well.

      ;)

    5. Re:Personalised by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 0

      There is simply no way that a one-size-fits all bureaucracy can educate as well as a system with tools that allow teachers to tailor activities to individual children.

      This is true; and you are left with a public school strategy which must maximize effectiveness in the group space, rather than the individual space. That's not necessarily a bad strategy: it's effective and has the high points of bringing socialization to education.

      In most simple terms, all people learn the same way. Individuals discover strategies to access information in various forms, and these become habits which reduce the mental energy required to learn by these strategies. Mental energy is limited--parts of your brain (notably, the dorsolateral prefrontal cortex) run out of ATP and must rest--and the application of effort really does drain a scarce resource. Our classroom education strategies don't account for this, and so some students thrive while others fall behind; we interpret this as students having differing needs.

      We can maximize group classroom learning by founding our education system on the development of learning strategies. Rather than allowing students to discover ways to chunk, reflect, associate, and mnemonize things on their own, we must teach them about memory, about analytical strategies, and about study strategies. Learning is based on memory, and a competent study of mnemonics covers not only simple mnemonic devices such as the mnemonic major system or the method of loci, but basic mnemonic concepts like association, visualization, and organization. Students need to learn to approach an opaque source of information; dissect it; interpret it; transform it; and ultimately store, file, and retrieve it. Rather than leaving them to find competing strategies, we should teach them a broad span of strategies to maximize their visual, auditory, and kinesthetic learning, enabling them to learn from lectures, books, activities, observations, and personal reflection.

      Individualized learning comes down to subject matter and deliberate practice.

      People learn best what they are most interested in, as this requires the least mental effort; a personalized education program is feasible in primary schools, and can provide a broad basis while also allowing the student to focus on their own selection of topics in history, math, literature, the arts, and whatever else we want to teach them.

      Deliberate practice essentially comes down to focusing on weakness--practice provides maximum effectiveness for the least time invested when it is goal-oriented and technically focused, with constant and immediate feedback--and so providing only a baseline of revisionary learning on most areas of a subject and a more intense focus on those areas the student struggles in will make the student improve faster. The student's technical academic performance may lower--he may perform worse--but he'll perform worse on a more complex set of challenges, meaning his grasp of the baseline material will be solid. What does it matter that a student is essentially performing at a barely-passing level on complex algebra when the subject of study is *introductory elementary algebra*? The student has apparently mastered all we intended to teach him, and has moved on to things we never expected; that he's struggling with the material is less important than the level of material he's moved up to.

      These individualized strategies place stress on a classroom environment, and have limited application as such; we can try, and we can make some improvements, and maybe have a competent education system without the enormous cost of a blanket personal education system.

    6. Re:Personalised by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 2

      The problem is that we haven't found a way to to it *economically* or *practically* for all those students whose parents can't afford to hire an individual tutor.

      But we have. The problem is, that it leaves certain kids "behind" and we've pledged "No Child Left Behind". So instead of getting the most out of everyone, we fail to get the minimum out of way too many. Some kids aren't going to succeed, regardless of how much effort we spend. The problem is, we can't just leave them behind either.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    7. Re:Personalised by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am over 40. My education was personalized in that I was given text books in August and told to complete them all by June.
      Subjects I liked and did well at, I finished in April or May - with intentional sandbagging - a skill everyone needs to learn before entering corporate America.
      Subjects I didn't like or had problems with, I finished in early June - usually by clustering up and knocking out large sections at a time - similar to taking your medicine in doses rather than a constant drip of unpalatable juice. Another skill everyone needs to learn before entering corporate America (or College ;-) ).

      From my own experience, it works. I am successful and have a functional household and family.

    8. Re:Personalised by Logic+Bomb · · Score: 1

      Each student's parents just need to hire an individual full-time tutor for their kid, who can then teach them in whatever way best suits that individual kid.

      This ignores the huge benefits in some situations of working together in small groups. Nothing in education is so simple.

    9. Re:Personalised by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      The studies linked to in the summary are quite positive about computer aided learning, actually.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    10. Re:Personalised by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Almost. The NCLB mentality was the second half of the problem: the first was the explosion of special ed. I taught (six years) in a public high school. The largest department by far was special ed. We were wasting so many resources on the bottom-feeders that we had little left over for enrichment for the bright kids and nothing for the bulk in the middle, who drifted aimlessly through their educations. This didn't help the special ed kids all that much, and it sure didn't help anyone else. Overall, the number of special ed teachers, most with three or four students in a classroom, meant that our student-teacher ratios looked great on paper, but excluding special ed we were packing thirty or more kids into a classroom because we couldn't afford any more core subject teachers thanks to the special ed expenditures.

    11. Re:Personalised by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have friends who send their kids to school, then home school them for another 3-4 hours when they get home. All the kids are ranked first in their respective classes and the school in general and we're not talking backwater bible schooling.

    12. Re:Personalised by HiThere · · Score: 1

      That partially depends on what you mean by "well". A big part of education acculturating the children to the culture that they are going to live in. Personalized education is likely to splinter the groups and fragment the culture even more that is already happening.

      Unfortunately, the current education system was designed to turn out factory workers...and there already isn't much need for that. But there still is need for glue to hold the civilization together. So shared common experiences are necessary. And lots of them. Personalized education should be superior at transferring intellectual knowledge, but that's not what school is really about.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    13. Re:Personalised by ganv · · Score: 1

      Yes, NotDrWho and Logic Bomb give important addendums. Resource constraints are a huge part of the puzzle. In an ideal world, even your group learning uses groups tailored to an individual learner, and that is often not practical. Eventually we may have data capable of guiding which kinds of groups should be working on which kinds of activities, and then analyzing that data and monitoring the groups will be a labor intensive operation, so we are back to resource constraints. In the long run, artificial intelligence may start to help us with these tasks, but by that point, artificial intelligence will start to make education itself a very different process with somewhat different goals.

    14. Re:Personalised by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      Each student's parents just need to hire an individual full-time tutor for their kid, who can then teach them in whatever way best suits that individual kid.

      This ignores the huge benefits in some situations of working together in small groups. Nothing in education is so simple.

      Nowhere in that formula does it say that kids won't sometimes be working in groups.

      Do kids with private tutors sometimes learn in groups? This is a factual question with an answer. You seem to be arguing that you believe the answer is that no, they do not. I find that hilarious, as there is thousands of years of evidence that they do in fact work with their peers; the tutors often find value in this, and it gives the other tutors a bit of a break. And for public schools, there is only a couple hundred years of data; less in most places.

      Nothing is as simple as you made it out to be, that much is true. But you won't know if you just presume falsehoods that you could have checked first.

    15. Re:Personalised by iceaxe · · Score: 1

      Far out, man.

      Funny thing, through an individually tailored program of public school, tutoring, home schooling, online schooling, school-sponsored extra-curriculars, non-school-sponsored extra-curriculars, community organization participation, church going, scouting, going to college, family time spent learning and interacting, travel, educational shows, and spending time with friends just goofing off, my kids have all learned how to read, write, do math, sing, play sports, play musical instruments, act, create art, lead groups, program computers, provide health care, pick a spouse and get married, have babies and take good care of them, earn a living, drive cars safely, vote their conscience, be productive and creative members of society, ... ...AND respect people who are different from themselves and give them the space to find their own happiness.

      Weird, huh?

      --
      WALSTIB!
    16. Re:Personalised by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      In my limited experience, the best special ed programs mainstreamed as much as possible.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    17. Re:Personalised by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      That doesn't scale very well. There's a limited number of good teachers, and I'm willing to bet it's a lot smaller than the number of children needing education. This means that, if we applied this system, most kids wouldn't get good tutors anyway.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  2. So, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    enough said Mr. education expert.

  3. Massively inbred? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How do you work that? King impregnates princess and prince has half-sister-mother? That I can believe. Mostly a Russian thing if you follow old history, not the new stuff, which is more of a

    VOTE TRUMP 2016

    1. Re:Massively inbred? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      More likely an Egyptian thing.

    2. Re:Massively inbred? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How do you work that? King impregnates princess and prince has half-sister-mother? That I can believe. Mostly a Russian thing if you follow old history, not the new stuff, which is more of a

      If nobility only marries nobility, then you're talking about interbreeding within a small number of families. Not necessarily sister-brother, but if you restrict your breeding to third cousins for a few generations, the effect is little different

      VOTE TRUMP 2016

      Oh, now I understand your confusion.

  4. You know... by rmdingler · · Score: 5, Insightful
    It is human nature to imagine fame and success make you ideally suited to solve all the world's problems.

    I don't know who said, "the more you know, the more you realize you don't know," but this is not the conclusion a great number of intelligent people automatically arrive at.

    --
    Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

    Ernest Hemingway

    1. Re:You know... by Dunbal · · Score: 3

      Well Angelina Jolie said that we should listen to Zuckerberg on this...

      Seriously though, it's not just human but also animal nature to "worship" the successful. While that used to be the big alpha male who always won his fights, and through humanity turned into the chieftain or the king who also always won his fights (after all, God shall protect the right)... in today's world we no longer value fighting so much, so we worship the ones set on a pedestal before us ("famous" people) and the ones who make a lot of money. Is that right? No. But it's how human brains are wired.

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    2. Re:You know... by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1, Informative

      The problem is nobody listens to you unless they agree; they're more likely to listen if you're famous or have some kind of credential.

      I've found these problems where I'll explain how markets or how macro-economics work and people will go, "... okay, yeah. I get that. I still think you're wrong, even though everything you said is obviously correct."

      Favorite example: I want to replace our welfare system with a Citizen's Dividend, a particular form of basic income (I have a complete tax plan, including transitions, financing considerations, risks, mitigation, and contingency plans in case certain outcomes occur that need a response). I've shown the math for how I came up with the amount of the Citizen's Dividend; I've shown how much it costs in taxes; I've shown how it combines with even below-minimum-wage incomes to make a sharp increase in quality-of-life; and I've demonstrated how simply changing around *how* taxes are taken (not necessarily who ultimately pays) changes the dynamics of employment, reducing the cost of products and increasing employment. I've backed this up with both direct inspection of history and with airtight logical models that show certain conclusions are likely correct because all other conclusions are mathematically impossible (for example: reducing cost of a general market good always *eventually* reduces price as a proportion of both per-capita and median buying power, else we'd have eliminated all employment thousands of years ago--any other conclusion prohibits the creation of new products).

      After long explanations of the technical details, people frequently tell me one of several things:

      • * It makes sense that lower cost of wage-labor means lower product cost and consumer buying power *but* we should raise minimum wage a lot to make the businesses pay. (Logical flaw: acknowledging that the base cost of wage-labor creates the base cost of goods implicitly acknowledges that consumers pay wages.)
      • * Wage-labor increases like taxes on the working class, payroll taxes, wages, and sales taxes reduce consumer buying power, eliminating jobs; *but* increasing minimum wage will make more people richer, even if it does eliminate a few jobs. (Logical flaw: acknowledging that raising the cost of labor destroys jobs is acknowledging that products are more expensive in such a way that consumers can, in total, afford less; you've just suggested that you're making the poor poorer *and* richer at the same time.)
      • * Same as above with wage-labor increases eliminating jobs; *but* a national sales tax should be the only tax because reasons. (All kinds of holy hell here; this is just blunt politics from people who think a national sales tax will somehow make businesses "pay their fair share," while they simultaneously argue that businesses are offshoring all their profits in such a way that would dodge the national sales tax anyway, and that the rich are avoiding all taxes by making capital gains.)
      • * Such a plan does reduce taxes on consumer take-home pay, increasing take-home pay per dollar wage-labor paid by the employer (including taxes), thus making *everyone* richer; *but* it's an expensive waste of money to give "our hard-earned taxpayer dollars" to drug dealers and lazy bums. (X causes Y; I like Y, but I don't like X. More politics.)
      • * More take-home pay does create jobs by creating the consumer buying power to buy products, thus increasing production demand and necessitating more people working to make things we're buying; thus jobs are not there because you worked hard, but because someone else wants to buy what you're making; *but* all poor people are lazy and should just get jobs, and welfare should be removed wholesale. (This seems reasonable on the face--welfare is expensive--until you realize population expands to scarcity, and full employment destroys an economy, and all kinds of other reasons that there will always be unemployment.)

      Mostly, people agree with what they agree with. If you can put on a good

    3. Re:You know... by ceoyoyo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Last week I told a grad student "grad school is where you learn that you don't know nearly as much as you think you do. A postdoc is where you learn that nobody else does either."

    4. Re:You know... by dcw3 · · Score: 1

      Last week I told a grad student "grad school is where you learn that you don't know nearly as much as you think you do.

      Shit, education has really gone downhill. We used to learn that leaving high school.

      --
      Just another day in Paradise
    5. Re:You know... by slew · · Score: 1

      Quality of life doesn't equate to wages... Nice try though on the Citizen Dividend.

      The problem with "money" and "wages" is that those game tokens don't have the same economic value to everyone.

      Wealth denominated in cash give people a certain amount of freedom and independence in our current society which makes some people happy. But that isn't the total equation. For example, why do rich people want to run for political office. They eventually realize some things that money can't buy and they want those too, or their perceived quality of life suffer. Why do lottery winner on the whole unhappy? Because friends and family alienate them and the become unhappy.

      On the flip side, lack of wealth in our society reduces your options and that makes most people feel unhappy. At the bottom of that rung, you basically are begging for survival (be it from the govt, or a church, or the street corner). Will money solve these people's problems? Maybe some of them, and certainly solving such problem will make some people happy.

      The people in the middle. What about them, how do they define quality of life? Employment? Take in consideration a job. You aren't just paid in cash, most people are also paid in "respect". You can get that respect in cash, you can get that in "brownie-points", you can get that in influence, or (and this part kinda sucks) you can get that *relative* to other folks... It actually doesn't take much cash to improve the average person's perception of their quality of life, just give them more than their peers. Of course you can replace cash with any other similar observable commodity. Take away the possibility of one-upping their peers in one dimension like cash, they will of course find another one (e.g., influence, access to fame, all the way down to head-butting or taunting that my dad can beat up your dad or my kid is smarter than your kid).

      It's just human nature that people feel some are more equal that others. Of course if you just change the "income" system and force it on people, they will adapt, but saying that improves people's quality of life on average (of course the people on the bottom rung will improve) is something that doesn't take into consideration human nature. By forcing them to "beg" to the government for part of their "income", you might be increasing the number of consumer goods they can buy, but leaving the government to define the marginal purchasing value of any additional money they earn (which would no doubt could be a huge leveling force). The government already has this lever by being able to inflate currency, so why don't they use it? Of course they use it a little (to keep people from hording game tokens), but why not use the full lever to increase income equality? Basically because it hurts upward mobility (reduces people's feeling of independence because they can't save for the future) and as a result many people don't like it (it reduces their perceived quality of life).

      In the end, you might realize that you aren't defined by your "income", or even your "employment level" or how much shit you can buy, but sadly these are the relative frameworks that many use to define their quality of life. But nothing is as tangible or countable as people might desire. Think about people obsessed with "likes" hoarding friends on social media like facebook although the quantity is high, is the actual quality high?

      On the other hand, on the observation people only listen to what they agree with, can't argue with that one... That's not politics, that's human nature.

    6. Re:You know... by erapert · · Score: 1
      I'm interested in your Citizen's Dividend idea. Is there a place I can go to learn the details?

      * Such a plan does reduce taxes on consumer take-home pay, increasing take-home pay per dollar wage-labor paid by the employer (including taxes), thus making *everyone* richer; *but* it's an expensive waste of money to give "our hard-earned taxpayer dollars" to drug dealers and lazy bums. (X causes Y; I like Y, but I don't like X. More politics.)

      This is most likely the one I would have responded with if I we were having a conversation and I hadn't thought about what I was going to say. I still dislike the notion of paying societal parasites. Wouldn't your plan still work if we didn't hand out money to people who don't contribute to the system? Why is it necessary that the parasites be given a free ride?

      If you can give them facts and figures they can understand, you can make them acknowledge those facts and figures are right and your conclusions are correct, and then immediately make a logically-disconnected statement about how they don't believe it anyway.

      Frequently it's because I still feel like there's something critical missing or because I feel like there's other options or choices than just the one that has been presented.

      For example (please don't kill me!) : global warming. I'm perfectly willing to believe that the global climate is trending hotter. I'm willing to believe that CO2 in the atmosphere is the cause. I'm even willing to believe that humans are the major source of that CO2. But when I say that I don't think anything should be done about it I get all kinds of nastiness thrown at me.

      But here's my thoughts:

      1. The Studies Have Shown (tm) that the temperature increase will be a couple of degrees C at most on average . So comfort-wise it'll not even noticed. In terms of crop yeilds and sea-level rise it still won't even be a big deal: Venice has been dealing with this stuff for centuries with no problem. Also, farmers can just move north a little. Obviously these are still big changes in absolute terms, but it'll be gradual and won't even be noticed against the background noise of wars, normal famines, and social upheaval. It doesn't make sense to be outraged/scared of the former while being blase about the latter.

      2. None of the "solutions" that those who're alarmed about AGW have put forward encompass acceptable changes to my air conditioning, convenient transportation (car/bike/whatever), a computer, and fast internet. Any AGW ideas I run into must account for an satisfy those in order for me to care. We must balance the federal budget before anything else or else we won't be able to do anything in the first place. I'm not opposed to moving our energy infrastructure away from fossil fuels; I just think that it shouldn't be rammed down anyone's throats and that the market ultimately will make the decision.

      3. I read articles just about every other day that make a case in both directions for and against AGW. I'm no expert and I also don't want to change my lifestyle since nothing I do will have any impact whatsoever on the global trend. As much of a doofus as Romney is he was right about one thing: it's Global warming. China and India are by far the bigger problems in this regard than the US is (and me by extension). This, of course, doesn't mean that the US has no obligation. It just means we should recognize the limits of our contribution one way or the other and not ruin ourselves in a futile attempt to save the world when the world isn't even ending in the first place.

      4. This is the most important item on the list: it always seems that, like vegans, AGW alarmists are in it for self-righteous cool points not because they actually care about the planet or about the well-being of humanity as a whole (which is what AGW actually threatens). I already buy energy efficient lighting. I already set my A

    7. Re:You know... by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      Actually, you missed it; but only barely.

      Money is not wealth. The buying power of money constantly converges on a measure by which all money spent in a reasonable recent period (e.g. 1 year) equates to all products produced and sold in that period. That means one year of total income equates to one year of production-consumption.

      All the stuff made divided by the whole population tells you how much there is to go around. If there's 1,000 people and 1,000 pounds of rice made per year, everyone can have 1 pound of rice per year; if you make 2,000 pounds of rice as the population expands to 2,000 people, everyone can still have 1 pound of rice per year; and if you make 4,000 pounds of rice without growing the population past 2,000, everyone can now have 2 pounds of rice per year.

      Likewise, we could have half the population make other things besides rice.

      Either way, half the wage time is going into making rice; if we don't increase or decrease wages, the guy making rice can now buy his own rice plus other stuff. He has access to more. This is how wealth at all levels increases: more stuff made per person, more buying power per income unit.

      It's not just "how much shit you can buy"; it's what you said:

      lack of wealth in our society reduces your options and that makes most people feel unhappy. At the bottom of that rung, you basically are begging for survival (be it from the govt, or a church, or the street corner).

      Physical stability and access to luxuries for less labor time exchange means you can more likely pursue whatever it is you want to pursue. All the fuzzy ideals about quality-of-life being some intangible ignore than reaching most intangibles is predicated on physical wealth or a lack of mental health (insanity is a good way to live in the street and wait for death while being quite happy with how your life turned out).

      Will money solve these people's problems?

      The ideal in the Citizen's Dividend is to improve economic efficiency, not to simply throw money at the problem. I don't want to rob the rich and give to the poor, and I don't think just pumping more money in will magically mean people buy more stuff. There's a limit to what they can buy due to what they can make (4.9% unemployment? Maybe we can make 4% more stuff...).

      Essentially, I'm trying to change the tax structure to reduce the amount of non-wage labor-wage cost. If a business pays you $10/hr and then has to pay 10% payroll tax, then the business must pay you $11/hr, meaning the *consumer* must pay at least $11/hr times the fraction of labor hours you put into the product you made (if you're running an assembly line where 5 people turn out 5,000 widgets per hour, that wage fraction can be quite low). At the same time, the laborer is taxed 10% on his $10/hr, so receives $9/hr. Now you have a product which must go on store shelves for 22% greater than its fractional wage cost: the consumers have lost 22% of their buying power.

      As this money flows through the hands of administrators, it pays some people for the task of handling logistics and bureaucratic tasks which produce nothing. Such tasks are important support for the functions which require them; however, if we replace those functions with something requiring less support, those tasks become irrelevant. That labor becomes free to use elsewhere--and, like all progress, that means someone becomes unemployed for an extended span of time, which is why we have welfare systems in the first place (you don't magic up new jobs; it takes time for the economy to shift around).

      Basically, money moving around more actively by the enforcement of buying and selling (e.g. instead of ending up directly in consumer hands, it first goes through taxation, or some other intermediate cycle, which requires it to be paid to administrators first) is less efficient than consumer buying power. The movements that don't go through production cycles waste labor and d

    8. Re:You know... by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      I'm interested in your Citizen's Dividend idea. Is there a place I can go to learn the details?

      I still need to write a formal description; but I've blogged about chunks and abstract ideas. The sheer amount of detail I've got scribbled down in notes is ... it's not like you can fix a problem by throwing money at it. I mostly talk about financing plans--cut off the cost of welfare (55% of the marginal income taxes) and replace it with a Dividend funding source (17% of AGI income tax); distribute that to every natural-born, adult, resident, American citizen; pay it as a non-refundable tax credit to all other American citizens--but there are transitional considerations, tax details, job creation details, opportunities to reduce the working week (actually, a risk of destroying the economy by creating more jobs than people, and a 4-day work week is my contingency), and all kinds of other stuff. It's not just about what, but about how to get there without destroying the economy along the way--it might be a good idea to excavate a gold mine, but it's no good if you bring the mountain down on your head in the process.

      I've got a latex document here that includes analysis of how many immigrants we have on welfare, tax costs of providing public aid for families (children) and naturalized citizens (immigrants who aren't making it, but who we don't want to hand free money because of the gold rush economy of coming to America and NOT working and getting paid to be American); transitional considerations about how to handle things like HUD (different sized families, income profiles, need for aid; along with the rate at which the market can respond by creating or locating available housing units for people who are homeless or leaving HUD) and Social Security OASDI; and even some political highlights depending on audience. It's very rough and not even complete.

      This is most likely the one I would have responded with if I we were having a conversation and I hadn't thought about what I was going to say. I still dislike the notion of paying societal parasites. Wouldn't your plan still work if we didn't hand out money to people who don't contribute to the system? Why is it necessary that the parasites be given a free ride?

      No, because then you're back to determining who is worth what, which creates new risks. One of those risks is a financing risk: the fluctuations of outlay tend to be stable when aligned with scarcity (population grows until scarcity sets in, then slows down), but are less-predictable when made more arbitrary and bureaucratic. You're basically adding complexity and increasing probability of failure, which leads not only to poverty, but also to a poorer middle- and upper-class, and to lower economic stability (unemployment tends to go up higher and stay high longer when it does go up).

      There are reasons it's not important:

      • * In practice, things like welfare drug tests determine almost nobody (like 0.01%) is actually on welfare and on drugs, without drops in welfare enrollment. Most states implementing welfare drug tests repeal them due to the cost being in massive excess of the savings.
      • * Employment is a function of the consumer's ability to buy products. If the consumer can buy more products, we must make more products to sell to the consumer, thus we need more jobs (manufacture, freight, logistics, marketing, retail). When that's exhausted, we have unemployment. In practice, *most* unemployed aren't parasites, and those who are just get out of the way of the rest of us. In other words: the parasites aren't subtracting from wealth by being parasites until they're drawing UE3 (which excludes non-job-seekers) down to an incredibly low value.
      • * Modern welfare goes away when you get a job, making the $7.25/hr minimum wage roughly equivalent to a $2/hr minimum wage. A Citizen's Divide
    9. Re:You know... by jtayon · · Score: 1

      Marie Curie thought she knew well education and institution were sexists crap : French Science Academy & institutions tried to bar her from being the first french PhD and the first ever Nobel prize in hard Science).

      So she decided to make a pool of education with other colleagues that resulted in her daughter being a legitimate scientific and the second Nobel prize in chemistry.

      So I will say I don't respect zuckerberg, I do respect Marie Curie going on the battlefield experimenting as a nurse the first X ray radiography dispositive to save life.

      Oh, Marie was as French as Polish.

      http://next.liberation.fr/livr...

      You also have a big critic of Feynman on modern education and the cult of the expert (Cargo cult science was first written as a critic of US education).

    10. Re:You know... by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      ... airtight logical models that show certain conclusions are likely correct because all other conclusions are mathematically impossible

      So, wherever you're wrong, you can't see it because you tricked yourself into believing that your thoughts are magical and so you can prove negatives. Complete fail. You didn't even convince me to be interested in checking your numbers, because I already know they're a steaming pile of garbage. Anything that claims to be proven right because the biased phrasing of the alternate view is clearly wrong... already has me convinced. ;)

      Example:

      for example: reducing cost of a general market good always *eventually* reduces price as a proportion of both per-capita and median buying power, else we'd have eliminated all employment thousands of years ago--any other conclusion prohibits the creation of new products

      What a load of crap that is. No, that not only doesn't prove your point, it doesn't even try to. There are too many logical problems with that to count, even as short as it is. It is factually wrong, even in Adam Smith he points out specific products and services where price isn't responsive to competition. You simply over-simplify until you are no longer considering other views, and then decide that must prove your view to be correct. That is not mathematical, sorry Homer.

    11. Re:You know... by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      It depends on the field, too. An English major once told me, after graduating and deciding not to be a writer: "The first three years of an English degree they teach you all the rules. The fourth year, they teach you not to follow them because they're just for beginners."

      Feynman talks about that in physics lectures; the first few years they teach the students a bunch of stuff that isn't really true, it is just a simplification that is useful. So naturally in a field where it is required to go to graduate school before you're employable then that is where they'll finally start exposing you to the field.

      A lot of people don't know what a postdoc is. That is a person who finished their graduate degree in good standing, but couldn't land a job in their field. So they get a semi-academic "postdoc" job which is basically an intern but who isn't a student anymore. They work 80 hours a week, and if they're lucky they get paid minimum wage for the first 40 hours of that. Postdoc is the vaguely job-like thing that you can do to cling to the field you studied if you can't get a research grant or a teaching position.

      IMO, if you just presume you don't know shit and always look things up, you'll operate as if you knew what you were doing. It isn't enough to read the manual once; the manual should be kept open while doing the work.

    12. Re:You know... by erapert · · Score: 1

      * In practice, things like welfare drug tests determine almost nobody (like 0.01%) is actually on welfare and on drugs, without drops in welfare enrollment. Most states implementing welfare drug tests repeal them due to the cost being in massive excess of the savings.

      Interesting. I didn't know that.

      As for the rest, it sounds promising. But I'm a paranoid and skeptical sort. Would it be possible to test and prove your system in one state before implementing it for the whole country? If so, then which state would be most suitable do you think?

    13. Re:You know... by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      So, wherever you're wrong, you can't see it because you tricked yourself into believing that your thoughts are magical and so you can prove negatives.

      I was particularly referring to the postulate that technology, throughout history, has reduced labor time required to produce goods, thus reducing the cost, leading to an eventual reduction to price, leading to an increase in consumer buying power (the consumer spends less on something he was already buying). Someone loses their job for a while, and then later a new job becomes available.

      I've had people explain that this *never* happens, and businesses have *always* just taken profit. Jobs lost to technology are lost *forever*. The problem with that is it's mathematically impossible to produce more things without creating new jobs; and it's mathematically impossible for a consumer base already spending all their income to spend more income to buy new products, creating new jobs. The mechanism I describe must happen if new products or new consumption ever come into the market.

      There are too many logical problems with that to count, even as short as it is. It is factually wrong, even in Adam Smith he points out specific products and services where price isn't responsive to competition.

      Mostly small-market products with low demand, because entering that market is risky. Thing is the *entire* *economic* *system* isn't one little product; what I describe is the whole economic system.

      You're basically saying, "Well, shit, diamonds don't get any cheaper, therefor nothing ever gets cheaper."

      Again: It takes a certain amount of labor to supply a certain product. If you increase the population and supply the same amount of that product per person, then you must increase labor by the same proportion that you increased population. If you then find a way to supply that product with less per-unit labor, then you have unemployed people. To employ them, you must pay them wages; and to pay them wages, consumers must buy product and pay the wage cost. Where do the consumers get the extra buying power to create these new jobs and buy these new products if they products they're buying don't represent a smaller proportion of the total income?

      That's mathematical. It's similar to double-entry accounting: all buying-power income (thus spending) must come from somewhere, and it all adds up to 100%, so where is the reduction when we buy new things?

    14. Re:You know... by dsmatthews9379 · · Score: 1

      Yes, it is the same sort of distorted thinking (often shown in the media) that being a victim of crime somehow makes you an expert in criminology, social problems and what to do about them, when really you are just an expert (perhaps) in how the event impacted your your life.

      Abstractly, it is the inappropriate projection of a local value into a global context, I am good at A therefore I am good at A...Z

      However being famous and rich does not mean that you cannot be competent across a diverse range of topics, therefore we cannot dismiss people's opinions on the grounds that they are "just some guy who manage to climb up on the biggest soap box", we need to consider the value of their arguments without personalising the issue.

    15. Re:You know... by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      About your view on global warming:

      1. The 2K limit isn't a matter of how high the temperature can go, it's a goal, since above 2K things are going to get seriously worse. (So far, I see no reason to believe that we're not going to shoot right by.) The climate changes are also going to be much more drastic than just a little warmup.

      2. You're selfish. That's not a real good basis for society, or a response to a threat.

      3. You've been reading general articles, and ignoring what climate scientists say. Scientists aren't always right, but it's the way to bet. You let yourself be sucked along with propaganda, presumably because it's more comfortable that way.

      4. There are global-warming alarmists, true, but you appear to be unwilling to think beyond that, to what's really going on. The fact that there are alarmists who make wild claims does not mean there isn't a threat. The IPCC reports give fairly conservative predictions with confidence levels.

      Now, if you went through this and had no real opinion, that would be fine. However, you seem to have an opinion based on what you've seen and read, and it isn't based on anything intelligent. That's where you become anti-scientific.

      Similarly, the concern with making sure "parasites" don't get any welfare has been screwing the system up at least since the 70s, and making it less efficient. It would be a lot better to concentrate on making the system work for most people than to spend extra money carefully fingering alleged parasites. That attitude usually comes with a real lack of understanding of welfare recipients. For example, drug testing: since drugs are expensive, why would anyone expect welfare recipients to buy them? They're typically more concerned with getting by. This didn't stop people from claiming they'd save money by drug-testing welfare recipients.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    16. Re:You know... by erapert · · Score: 1

      You're selfish.

      This is just name calling. Also, you left out the part I mentioned where I believe we must balance the budget in order to deal with AGW.

      You let yourself be sucked along with propaganda, presumably because it's more comfortable that way.

      An ad hominem attack.

      However, you seem to have an opinion based on what you've seen and read...

      Yes. That's true. How else should one form an opinion?

      but you appear to be unwilling to think beyond that, to what's really going on.

      Why don't you tell me what's really going on?

      Now, if you went through this and had no real opinion, that would be fine. However...

      So you felt like you needed to adjust my opinion on the matter? Thus proving what I said about self-righteous motivations and vegans.
      Q: How do you know who's a vegan?
      A: Oh, they'll let you know.

    17. Re:You know... by rmdingler · · Score: 1

      IMO, if you just presume you don't know shit and always look things up, you'll operate as if you knew what you were doing. It isn't enough to read the manual once; the manual should be kept open while doing the work.

      Indeed. The manual, the instructions, the job specifications, the prints... why on earth would those be the final option, that you would only consider consulting after exhausting all others?

      Regarding the manual or instructions specifically, what must be the makeup of your hubris that you believe the manufacturer would be unlikely to know something you do not?

      --
      Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

      Ernest Hemingway

    18. Re:You know... by rmdingler · · Score: 1

      However being famous and rich does not mean that you cannot be competent across a diverse range of topics, therefore we cannot dismiss people's opinions on the grounds that they are "just some guy who manage to climb up on the biggest soap box", we need to consider the value of their arguments without personalizing the issue.

      I'll buy that. It's just that I don't suppose we're much in danger of underestimating the opinions of the folks who already have a pulpit from which to preach.

      --
      Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

      Ernest Hemingway

    19. Re:You know... by HuguesT · · Score: 1

      Sorry you don't know what a Postdoc is.

      Nobody in academia lands an academic job right after their PhD. After their graduation, young doctors who want to continue into academia go to a different lab, where they continue to do research, publish, teach and so on. They are supposed to learn the techniques of the new lab and to spread the ones of the old lab in the new place. Usually a Postdoc salary is OK. It is typically twice that of a PhD student. Usually a Post-doc position is quite nice.

      After a couple of years as Post-doc, typically people find an assistant professor job somewhere. *This* is where they start to work 80-hours week.

    20. Re:You know... by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      Of course they have dreams, that is why they are still there.

    21. Re:You know... by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      Regarding the manual or instructions specifically, what must be the makeup of your hubris that you believe the manufacturer would be unlikely to know something you do not?

      Nope, I didn't say anything about that. So I can't help you there.

    22. Re:You know... by rmdingler · · Score: 1
      Pardon. The 2nd statement was a general reflection on the behavioral tendencies of humankind, not at all about you.

      Some folks would attempt all alternative options of putting a project together, including trial and error, before reading the directions.

      --
      Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

      Ernest Hemingway

    23. Re:You know... by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      Not likely. My system is highly sensitive to wealth: once you've reached a certain level of wealth (which is predicate entirely on technological development--how much stuff can you actually produce per person?), you have enough to go around that tapping it for a basic-needs-level income is cheaper than most simple alternatives. You can compare the cost of welfare versus a competing Dividend against spending in 1950 and spending in 2003. The difference is more staggering when you realize the average 1950 house had 983sqft, and the average 2003 house had 2,300sqft: houses cost less than half as much per square foot in 2003, in terms of percentage of household income. You can see the Dividend I propose would have been a *huge* mistake in 1950: excessive cost and lowered effectiveness would bring economic ruin to the United States.

      I'm actually starting to suspect that chart is wrong: food and clothing costs fell versus the average income, and inflation of food and clothing came slower than per-capita GDP growth, meaning that red bar should have started a lot higher than just 24% instead of humming along levelly. I only adjusted my Dividend for inflation, so the red bar assumes food and housing have gotten no cheaper. If I go back and find the appropriate numbers, that chart would look more like a Dividend requires 44% of our AGI in 1950 and 17% in 2013, while Welfare requires 2% in 1950 and 17.2% in 2013.

      (If you're wondering: I did some quick math comparing the proportions of spending and used that to adjust the Dividend, then adjusted it proportionally. So food is 30% in 1950 and 13% in 2003? I adjusted the food budget in 2013 by multiplying it by 30/13. Did this for food, clothing, housing (per square foot); divided the result by the 2013 Dividend; and multiplied that proportion by the percentage in 1950. About 2.3 times as much is needed to live in 1950 than 2003; the ratio is probably bigger for 2013, but I'm not going to haggle over a percentage point.)

      That means it might work fantastically in Texas, fail in California or Rhode Island, and operate in an unrelated manner on the Federal level. Further, it's an expansion of Social Security, and would require revoking OASDI taxes in that state while still paying half the OASDI benefit--which would break OASDI. Even if the Federal government let you do it, OASDI would become less-solvent if you piloted on a more-affluent state likely to succeed at a state-level Dividend, and more-solvent if you piloted on a less-affluent state likely to fail. If you don't revoke OASDI, you wind up with a tax system that applies some 6% more taxes to the working class while also holding products an additional 6% more costly thanks to payroll taxes; and OASDI stays everywhere else in the country, anyway, so all kinds of shipping, logistics, and other interstate commerce becomes expensive, lowering the buying power of individuals in the state piloting the Dividend.

      In other words: it's approximately a guaranteed success at the Federal level, with a graceful failure mode (if it's not a success, it's a flesh wound that makes the country wince a little); it's approximately a guaranteed failure at the State level, with a disastrous failure mode that would probably not only leave everyone in that state much poorer and create a lot more homelessness and hunger, but also take down Social Security's retirement benefits by sheer force of insolvency. The more likely it is to succeed at the State level, the more likely the attempt is to break the rest of the United States.

      That doesn't even begin to address logistics like residency: what happens when someone moves into or out of state? I managed to work that out on the National level; it's different on the State level, especially when

    24. Re:You know... by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      "Selfish" is putting your own desires above others. You said that you had serious limits on what you were willing to put up with, which qualifies. The Federal budget is a completely orthogonal issue.

      You also don't know what "ad hominem" means. I'm starting with your bad conclusions and surmising how you got them. Saying you were wrong because you were a propaganda dupe would be ad hominem; saying you're a propaganda dupe because you're wrong, and how you're wrong, isn't.

      As far as what is going on, check on what the scientists say. If you keep seeing articles arguing both ways, it's because you're not noticing which articles have actual science behind them, and which have propaganda and vituperation. You're not basing your opinion on anything rational. As I suggested, the IPCC reports are a good approach to what really is going on.

      Self-righteous motivations? You seemed offended by being called anti-scientific, so I pointed out why people call you anti-scientific.

      As far as "they'll let you know", I'm not the one who put a large section on global warming into a post discussing basic income. I'm the guy calling you out on it, like the guy who winds up explaining that meat isn't poison.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  5. Please just be a bank account by sjbe · · Score: 5, Insightful

    While acknowledging that there's not yet any independent, large-scale research to show personalized learning's effectiveness, Zuck argues that "the model just intuitively makes sense."

    All sorts of things "just make sense" that are actually completely wrong when objectively examined. That's why we do experiments to see if they actually work before rolling them out in a big way. Basing policy on a hunch is REALLY stupid unless you have no other choice and this is not one of those times where we have no other choice. Maybe he's in the test phase but it sure doesn't sound like an experiment. It's annoying how Zuckerberg (and Gates) thinks that because he was successful in software that it somehow qualifies him to be something more than a bank account for areas of endeavor where he demonstrably has no special expertise or insight. At least Gates no longer has a day job so conceivably he has the time to actually devote to the details of these issues. There is no way Zuckerberg actually has enough time to really do much more than parrot what the people he hired are telling him.

    1. Re:Please just be a bank account by duiwel · · Score: 1

      We're pretty much experimenting with our kids education every day. Common Core has been a miserable disaster and it was a large-scale, government run, "scientifically backed" curriculum deployment. Unfortunately the funding isn't there, teachers don't understand the rules and guidelines, kids are most certainly not picking up on the material in any sort of ground-breaking way, and parents are upset and frustrated. You can't form a single education plan and universally apply it to 50 million children. Will it work? Who knows. Is he going to risk destroying the lives of a couple hundred children by doing this? That's highly doubtful. Giving a bunch of low-income undeserved youths and their families access to tuition free top-notch education technology, personalized learning curriculum, health care, etc is going to be a LOT better than what they would get from their local public education system... especially when you consider how education funding is normally split along the economic spectrum of low income areas vs high income areas in this country. In any case, citing a 40 year old pre-computer age government report and a single professor from a religious research college in the blurb is really not the most reliably source for counter arguments anyways.

    2. Re:Please just be a bank account by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 1

      Hey, being rich automatically makes you an expert on everything, just ask Donald Trump...

      --
      I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
    3. Re:Please just be a bank account by rmdingler · · Score: 1
      It gives you a pulpit, for sure, and DJ Trump is proof don't always have to appeal to, er, appealing ideas.

      In other news, post response to the front page box is not working on the Slashdot. I know this space exploration thing is big, really big, but can we get someone on that??

      --
      Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

      Ernest Hemingway

    4. Re:Please just be a bank account by Solandri · · Score: 1

      You're assuming the current state (public education with a uniform curriculum) is the default state and thus the burden of proof is upon other forms of education to prove their superiority.

      The correct default state is actually no education. And the burden of proof is upon all forms of education to prove their level of effectiveness. I'd further hypothesize that public education was widely adopted as the norm not because it was proven most effective at teaching, but because it was most cost-effective. Only one person (hopefully a really really smart person) has to come up with a lesson plan, and each teacher can can be taught the same lessons (and they in turn teach the same thing to every kid).

      Like the effect filesharing has had on music/movie distribution costs, computers and the Internet reduce most of the cost-reducing benefit of a uniform curriculum to near zero. Those who've been most successful because of the Internet are keenly aware of that, so of course they're going to think of this. So rather than immediately criticize and dismiss this idea in order to protect a method of education developed in the 1700s-1800s, I think this is something worth experimenting with. And anyway he's offering to pay for the experiment so what are you complaining about?

      To draw a car analogy, in 1908 the assembly line and the use of interchangeable parts greatly increased manufacturing efficiency to where the car became affordable to the average person. The drawback was that you could have any color you wanted, as long as it was black. Around 2000, computers and the Internet (better, cheaper communications) made it feasible for you to custom-order exactly what options you want in your car and have the factory manufacture it that way. There was little to no overhead to the factory for providing this service compared to the logistical nightmare it would've been in 1908 using pen, paper, postal mail, and a chalkboard to specify which options went in which car. I really could've used more math and science in my K-12 education, instead of having read Wuthering Heights (no offense to Emily Bronte fans - you probably find the math and science in your education was wasted in your current career).

    5. Re:Please just be a bank account by HiThere · · Score: 1

      Well, to be fair the prior studies didn't show that all conceivable ways of doing personalized education were horrible, they showed that certain particular ways were. And they were right, but this doesn't mean that Zuckerberg is wrong. He may be, I'm not informed enough about his plan to have much of an opinion. I *am* of the opinion the personalized eduction has some extremely strong points, and mass education has some horrible weaknesses. And the way it is currently implement is certainly worse than the way it was implemented in the schools I went to in the 1950s. (This is largely, though not totally, down to class size and lack of local autonomy.)

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    6. Re:Please just be a bank account by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      1) The current system was put into place without widespread testing of different possible educational systems.
      2) Widespread testing has shown that the standard mainstream system of teaching is unsuitable for some students.
      3) You have no widespread testing to prove any of your statements or conclusions are reasonable.
      4) You have no idea what Gates or Zuckerberg's daily work life and schedules are, or who does what planning for them.
      5) Basing opinions on a hunch is REALLY stupid unless you have no other choice. There are other choices here.

      Given 1) and 2), it is as reasonable to try a new untested system and see if it is better as not to! If the existing system had been pre-tested, maybe there would be a different balance there.

    7. Re:Please just be a bank account by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      Drumpf is just another bankrupt idiot who can't manage his finances.

      He's filed for bankruptcy four times.

      Being a successful business leader is at least different than being a rich kid who failed at business and then got a good job as a TV actor.

  6. It's a process by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Education (like many things) is not just a bunch of "tools and resources", but a process. I.e. to improve outcome it's not enough to just give better tools if the ability to use those tools is not a match. In practise there can be better teaching methods under certain circumstances, but can result in worse results when applied in scale. Sometimes a simple, well understood process is better than a more advanced one. That's why pen&paper with lacking features is still pretty competitive to computers, it has less shortcomings and points of failure.

  7. 40+ years old studies by AchilleTalon · · Score: 3, Informative

    The problem with 40+ years old studies on computer aided learning is the computing lanscape has changed so much since then they are mostly irrelevant. Even the University of Illinois at Urbana is making the shift offering on-line education.

    --
    Achille Talon
    Hop!
    1. Re:40+ years old studies by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The problem with 40+ years old studies on computer aided learning is the computing lanscape has changed so much since then they are mostly irrelevant. Even the University of Illinois at Urbana is making the shift offering on-line education.

      Online is personalized expect in the simplest of senses; i.e. you get to chose your pace but the content and flow is the same for everyone.

      To me, personalized learning requires some degree of tailoring the material to the student; and therein lies the challenge. Doing that get expensive quickly, and we have shown time and time again a lack of willingness to invest in education.

      The one area I have seen personalized learning is in special education, where teachers create individualized instruction plans of reach student based on their ability to learn. Even then, it generally devolves into simply doing the same thing but slower or with an aide rather than a tailored learning plan; simply because when you have to do 15 of them their is simply not enough time to tailor them and the county sure as hell ain't paying for another teacher or two needed to really tailor and deliver the material. As a result, I doubt it ever catches on at the public school level. I have seen it in college, where you can take lab courses under a professor and do your own thing after you've mastered the basics.

      --
      I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
    2. Re:40+ years old studies by Sique · · Score: 5, Informative
      And if you read the WP article, you know why: To save on teaching staff. The head count of the teachers at universities and other educational institutions has stagnated since decades, but enrollment has exploded, and so has administrative staffing (and the wages for the administrational staff).

      It's not because online education is inherently better, it's because you can offer the same course material to more people without investing into more buildings, additional positions for teachers and mentors or any other infrastructure that actuallyhelps the students. No one cares if it profits the single student, as long as you can profit from more students.

      --
      .sig: Sique *sigh*
    3. Re:40+ years old studies by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      I've had some personalized learning in the past, when I was studying Japanese. The teacher set out the material to be learned but then offered a variety of ways to learn it. I could choose examples that gave context to help me remember stuff, while others preferred to work more with a dictionary and theory. In the end a few of us got A grades by studying in different ways and ultimately taking the exact same exams (oral, aural and the big written one).

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    4. Re:40+ years old studies by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      There is also recent research showing that things like online learning aren't really very good. Universities are implementing it anyway because they're run by business people (like Zuck and Gates) and it's highly profitable, dirt cheap, and in demand. None of those things mean it's effective.

    5. Re:40+ years old studies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      exploded, and so has administrative staffing

      With personalized learning, we can run schools with only administrators and computers.

    6. Re:40+ years old studies by sootman · · Score: 1

      40 years ago was 1976. The Apple 1 kit was introduced April 1, 1976. So any paper published was most likely written before the authors even knew of its existence. I'm pretty sure no Apple 1s wound up in schools. The Apple II was still a year away. Yeah, things have changed just a bit since then.

      --
      Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
    7. Re:40+ years old studies by sootman · · Score: 1

      My kingdom for an "edit" button! (Or, more brains.) The papers linked in TFS were from December 1975 and January 1976. So yeah, I'm not saying they need to be totally discarded, but we have tools commonly available now that were nearly unimaginable back then. I mean, it's possible that someone once said "wouldn't it be great if you could have a searchable electronic encyclopedia that fit in your pocket?" but I don't know how long they figured that would take to actually happen or if they accounted for that possibility in their findings.

      --
      Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
    8. Re:40+ years old studies by Sique · · Score: 1

      If the part of your tuition fee that pays for adminstration, increases, while the part of your tuition fee that pays for your education shrinks, you turn from a student into a milking cow for an institution that mainly works for itself.

      --
      .sig: Sique *sigh*
    9. Re:40+ years old studies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not because online education is inherently better, it's because you can offer the same course material to more people without investing into more buildings, additional positions for teachers and mentors or any other infrastructure that actuallyhelps the students.

      For some courses where the material doesn't change all that often and can be standardized - this makes sense. Virginia Tech has an interesting model for their intro to calculus courses - all self-paced, but, human interaction+assistance available upon demand:
      https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/at-virginia-tech-computers-help-solve-a-math-class-problem/2012/04/22/gIQAmAOmaT_story.html

      My philosophy courses where engagement in debate with other students and the professor were the primary reason for showing up (not the actual course material) - no, this would not make sense.

  8. Intitution is not data by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Intuition is not data and it's usually wrong. You should know better than this Zuck...

    1. Re:Intitution is not data by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      As the good Dr. Feynman noted: "The first principle is that you must not fool yourself – and you are the easiest person to fool."

      That's the trouble with 'intuitive' solutions. Not only are they unreliable; unlike other lousy sources of data, they are unreliable and emotionally compelling.

  9. Cannot stand alone by Matt_Bennett · · Score: 1

    What bothers me about "personalized" learning is that at some point, these people will need to interact with others, so there must be commonality. Being able to communicate and share ideas is absolutely vital- and the language behind the ideas and how they are represented are a vital aspect of the idea itself. Personalization may help an individual, but it can hurt in the collective sense, where the people must work with the ideas of others.

    1. Re:Cannot stand alone by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 1

      Zuckerberg is right that personalized learning makes sense, he is also wrong. The problem is that when he uses "personalized learning", he means that WHAT is being taught is being personalized AND that is a mistake. The most effective way to teach each person is specific to that person (although many people are close enough that they can be taught using common methods). However, as a society, we need everyone (or the overwhelming majority at least) to know many of the same things. In particular, we need to share a common culture (which includes things like having read the same books and viewed the same artworks).

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    2. Re:Cannot stand alone by Alumoi · · Score: 1

      Well, you have failbook to communicate and share ideas. Right, mr. Zuck?
      We'll just personalize it more, just give us all your details and presto! personalized learning.

    3. Re:Cannot stand alone by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      "The most effective way to teach each person is specific to that person"

      There's actually very little evidence to support that assertion either. Learning styles, for example, are basically an invention that people thought sounded truthy but has no scientific support.

    4. Re:Cannot stand alone by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 1

      I take it the science says that everyone can be taught using the exact same methods? I really have to question that since the science says that people learn by positive and negative reinforcement. I know that different people regard different things as positive reinforcement and negative reinforcement.

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    5. Re:Cannot stand alone by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      Personalized learning doesn't mean private learning. It does not imply separating the children, or keeping ones working on the same subject from doing it together. Those are hand-wavy inanities.

      Montessori does personalized learning, for example. And the kids interact more than in traditional schools. Locally, we have numerous different "alternative education" schools that all do more personalized learning, and they all also put more emphasis on cooperation. It may be that the very process of personalization involves collaboration!

    6. Re:Cannot stand alone by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      In particular, we need to share a common culture (which includes things like having read the same books and viewed the same artworks).

      That isn't just wrong, it is dangerous and scary. Plus it is total crap; people in this culture don't read, and they "art" means pop music. No, I don't need to read the same books as them. It is better if we each read the books we want. Maybe that could be a culture? Oh, wait, it already is my culture! Glad I learned it somehow, while reading all the wrong books and looking at all that old art most people don't bother with.

  10. Not just about the tools by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    The OP references two papers from the 70's. Both are about PLATO. Plato wasn't the only game in town. There were other successful experiments in individualized learning in the late 60's and 70's including Nova (Broward County, FL) funded by Westinghouse and (then) HEW. Methodologies that allow learning at an individual pace and don't try to teach what the student already knows were proven to work. Teachers weren't eliminated. Their role changed from regurgitating information to mentoring and managing by exception. The teachers have to be good, though as they had to be able to address any topic in the subject area at any point and couldn't rely on presenting prepared sermons.

    As for the professor in the Post article, he seems to be moaning about technology forcing change in his profession. Where have we heard that before? I suspect what it will really do for educators is remove the mundane rote aspects and leave the interesting challenges. To quote Eric Shinseki: If you don't like change, you're going to like irrelevance even less.

    1. Re:Not just about the tools by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This news item does appear to be bringing out folks with interest in not employing computers to teach.

      There is a 3rd Plato report at http://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED102940.pdf
      Section 2.2 is a summary of the problems.
      Basically, they bit off more than they could chew.

      If computer learning is to work, it needs to start small.
      I'd vote for teaching elementary arithmetic.
      The first task is for the computer to figure out what's going on in the kid's head.
      The second task is to provide feedback in the form of lessons and examples to steer the kid to a correct understanding of the material.

      I think this 'simple' problem is sufficiently complex to keep the AI folks busy for some time.
      Once they get to where the results with the computer are better than a one on one teaching situation with a good teacher, they can bite off something else.

      The teacher's unions will ultimately have a problem, but I think at this point they have no worries.
      (Except maybe for how the computer can do versus a less than good teacher.)

      I wonder if it would be possible to put the Plato system back on-line somewhere on the web?
      (It should not be that hard to simulate the 11/70 it ran on with a small pc.)
      That would let folks see what it actually was, instead of reading a summary.

      Zuck and the other $Billionares interested in this ideally should do it open source to make it move faster with cross pollination.
      The world would be much better off if basic elementary skills were open source and widely available.
      Profit sometimes has a place to martial resources to do things at scale.
      In this case, open S/W seems a better means to the end.
      Maybe, once a computer can teach the basics, profit will be needed to create more specialized curricula.

    2. Re:Not just about the tools by tricorn · · Score: 1

      PLATO/CYBIS/NovaNET were arguably the most influential and widespread. The last commercial PLATO-derived systems only shut down in the last year. There was tons of research done on methodologies and techniques, some of what came out of such research is still in use today, while much has been overlooked. It's always sad to see a group of people approach creating educational systems and immediately start doing things that were tried 45 years ago and refined over a period of decades, which ultimately fail, never realizing the wealth of material that was produced.

    3. Re:Not just about the tools by tricorn · · Score: 1

      It already is running. 11/70? The initial system ran on Illiac I, then a CDC 1604 CDC, then PLATO IV ran on a variety of different CDC mainframes.

      See http://cyber1.org/ for more information on the emulated system.

    4. Re:Not just about the tools by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't think a revived Plato system is valuable in light of the MOOC and LMS systems that are available. Now a system that could use AI to offer prescriptive 'lessons' based on prior performance...

    5. Re:Not just about the tools by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think a revived Plato might be useful as a reality check to show against a more recent system.
      The old reports say that the old system didn't work but the reality check might show why applying this lesson to the new stuff is bogus.

      This morning I spent an hour teaching by figuring out a misconception in the mind of a coop.
      A fundamental tool was a whiteboard. He could write and I could see a bit of what he was thinking.
      This seems a benchmark for learning systems.
      First is a similar input device widely available? (The ratio of pen size to board size makes a lot of pixels. Finger to touch screen ratio, no so much.)
      Second, can S/W expert in teaching elementary math decypher what a kid math student is writing well enough to diagnose the learning issue?

    6. Re:Not just about the tools by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      If computer learning is to work, it needs to start small.
      I'd vote for teaching elementary arithmetic.

      When I needed a calculus refresher I just went to Khan Academy and found the lessons I needed.
      Starting small already happened.

      When I was a wee lad, I mastered the alphabet. It was very exciting! Then my mother taught me my first written word: C-A-T. So, so amazing. Magical. And then she showed me the first spellbook I learned from: the Dictionary. This is how you learn what you want to learn about: you guess the first letter from the sound, and then look, the words are all in the same order as the alphabet! You can just sing the letters until you find your spell, yay! From there I eventually moved on to an encyclopedia. With computers, even those who are not as gifted at turning pages and indexing can have access to knowledge. What a brave new world this is. ;)

      And once you learn some Library Science, you can even personalize your learning by subject, just by learning which isles to hang out in.

      Using computers to bring all this to the masses is easy: you just take all the steps where I learned how to access knowledge, decide for them which personalized knowledge will help them to thrive, and order them to complete those lessons! Then you can just do everything else about their education the same way as normal. You can even put all the kids with similar lesson plans into the same rooms while they're on that part that is the same. The computer can give the teacher a digital lesson plan guide tablet that includes the teacher guide for each lesson currently in the room. And, since humans are idiots and those who can't do it get to teach it, we can just apply some Deep Learning and have the computer personalize the lesson plans. The teachers will appreciate that, as long as the teacher guide tablet has an easy and convenient user interface.

      I know that personalized education is compatible with collaboration and student interaction, because how else would I have been granted the nickname Dictionary in school?

  11. Why do you think we have classes? by Kjella · · Score: 2

    You can't effectively teach 1-10th grade math in the same class. So we age-tier because we think that's a reasonable approximation of skill-tier or just to split it up so you've had all the parts of the curriculum. Or think why you have divisions in leagues, you learn by playing roughly equal levels with a few better, a few worse than yourself but if you're just trivially beating them or being crushed you learn nothing. That doesn't mean I think individual learning is the one true answer, you learn a lot of valuable lessons explaining and being explained to, cooperating, correcting each other and so on. But ideally you'd do that with your peers in skill.

    If you have some time dedicated to working individually it'd be a lot easier to create a dynamic, personalized schedule where you are in peer groups with others of comparable skill. Today it's mostly impossible to say follow the class of the grade above you because then you have something else, either you must jump a year in every subject or you're pretty much stuck where you are. Of course there's also other concern like like a stable social group you can develop inter-personal relations and skills with but it's not like you exclusively played with those in your class anyway. In the pauses between classes you'd play with other kids anyway.

    --
    Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    1. Re:Why do you think we have classes? by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      In my public schools many years ago we didn't divide things up by grade but by lesson, so for example a math class would have people from 3 different grades in it; and maybe one younger prodigy.

      In English it had the effect that I was never taught most of the fake rules, because I could already correctly pick out the incorrect sentences on the standardized tests. Comprehension meant that I would skip over big parts of the lesson plan. Thank goodness, most of those "rules" aren't even part of the English language!

      It wasn't a problem because the reality is that there are refreshers again and again along the way. 0% of the students are being asked to learn something, and then remember it forever. There will always be a refresher, and a student who missed something will have a chance to pick it up later. And students who are skipping a step will be able to handle that.

      The only things that were locked to grade level were things without tests; things where we were just being exposed to the information, like watching Why We Fight and other educational movies.

      If these are supposed to be problems for personalized education, I'm skeptical.

  12. Forgiving goes both ways by houghi · · Score: 1

    If we forgive him that he did not see and thus did not know that it existed, all others should be forgiven that we did not know he (or others) patented anything.

    And if the 40 years is a too long time, then perhaps we should be forgiven for things we copy illegally after say 14 years.

    If he just did not read it; then perhaps he should understand that his terms of joining FB are not read and thus null and void.

    --
    Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
  13. Personalized meal service by Overzeetop · · Score: 3, Funny

    I find that personalized meal service - where you provide your specific preferences and dislikes, along with any allergy information and your personal weight and fitness goals, is by far the most effective way to enjoy your meal and maximize your health. In fact, as a billionaire, its the only way I can see to get and keep everyone healthy. It just takes some planning and seed funding to create a few proof-of-concept restaurants that can do just that. After that it should be simple to, for example, provide the exact same personalized service to the entire deployed military forces for their daily meals.

    --
    Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
    1. Re:Personalized meal service by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I find that personalized meal service - where you provide your specific preferences and dislikes, along with any allergy information and your personal weight and fitness goals, is by far the most effective way to enjoy your meal and maximize your health

      Oi, health nazi!
      I can't enjoy my meal and maximize my health at the same time.
      Steak, potatoes, butter, bread, cheese, bacon, eggs, something green to go with it (salad or similar), sugar, salt, coffee, wine, sodas (Coke/Pepsi). They are all bad for my health (or so you nazis claim) but I fucking love them.

    2. Re:Personalized meal service by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wish I had mod points for this post. You hit it right on the head - it's not the concept but how it scales that is the challenge.
      But speaking as a professor of education, how people learn is a topic where EVERYONE has a strong opinion that they are sure is correct. Some of those people have the money to try to use prove their ideas are correct. Funny thing is, that's the very opposite of science, where you start with a theory and then test it. I wish some of these philanthropists would spend their money trying to learn how science works rather than 'fixing a problem that no one else has.'

    3. Re:Personalized meal service by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      The funny part is that if those meals were being prepared by computerized machines, it might be trivial to provide each soldier a customized meal.

      In the olden days, if I wanted to produce a photo calendar, I had to buy 5000 copies because they had to do a bunch of work to set up a press. Then JIT printing presses became a thing, and that evaporated; now they don't have to change anything at all physically, they just insert a print job in their queue and I can order 5, 50, or 5000 no problem!

      I absolutely expect the soldier of the future to have personalized meals, because they'll be more effective soldiers with better fuel.

      And they won't build the machines out of strawmen, even rich strawmen.

      Bad kitty, my personalized cheesypoofs! MINE!

  14. Arrogant Rich People by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What is it about succeeding in a tech business that makes people think they are all of a sudden the world's leading authority on everything. Bill Gate and Zuckerberg obviously know education because... they made software. Bill Gates knows about vaccines and world health because... he made software.

    Apparently if you succeed in software you are automatically the leading authority on everything.

  15. personalized learning - already part of our societ by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    OK, before any dissent starts, I was publicly educated, have a PhD, and have taught high-school and up.

    Public education does not need to be personalized.
    It needs to do the basics: math, reading, languages, writing, history ( uncensored ), science and a few topics like how to balance a checkbook, cook, and maybe some general shop. Notice I did not specify gender.
    These things are nedded for general citizenry. So they should be taugh in the public schools.

    Personalized education is for specialty topics - magnet school classes should be after normal school.....
    Art, music, literature, acting, chess, poker, sewing, cooking and such should be part of the parental obligation. NOT public schools.
    Football, sports, and such are side-interests as far as education goes.

    Now the general populace (and some of /. ) are decidedly not cooperative.
    Football parents, little-league parents, dance-class parents, Soccer Moms and Dads are generally too focused on their own preferences to realize these may be educational, but are not the meat of an education, merely the frosting.
    Helicopter parents are the worst offenders - little Johnny and sweet Suzie are more crippled by them than having both arms broken.
    And the Fed would do well to start getting away from "designed lunches" and remember what they are - servants, NOT masters.
    I wouldn't take advice from an educational specialist who had never taught in middle/high school for 3 years, or from a bureaucrat following advice from one of them, either.

  16. Tiered Learning by Gennerik · · Score: 2

    In my own experience, I benefited from moving beyond my peers in mathematics and in language. I could definitely see a tiered learning, where the tiers were broken down by ability and/or subject and not arbitrary age. We constantly test our students, so why not make those tests actually mean something? Then, you get your high school diploma when you actually are able to demonstrate proficiency with the subjects and you're not held back going over subjects that you've already "mastered" just because of your age.

    And quite honestly, if the US federal government stopped placing such a high priority on enabling (read: funding) every person to go to college and instead sunk that money into the K-12 public education system, maybe we would have much better results with kids coming out of high schools and able to enter the work force at better than minimum wage jobs, and college could once again go back to being for more specialized education.

    1. Re:Tiered Learning by danbert8 · · Score: 1

      That's my biggest problem with making college available to everyone. If college is available for everyone, a 4 year degree is the new high school diploma... Just more expensive and 4 years of not-working later. We already make a high school education available for free to everyone. And we had to lower the standards for graduation to the point where a high school diploma is worthless. How low will we make the college degree standards until everyone can get one and one will be required for minimum wage jobs?

      --
      Yes it's an anecdote! Were you expecting original research in a Slashdot comment?
    2. Re:Tiered Learning by Gennerik · · Score: 1

      Absolutely agree. If we stopped teaching to the lowest denominator, our high schools would be worth something in the workplace. Then we wouldn't have such a push to go to college, where so many students end up racking up huge amounts of debt in order to get a degree that will never pay itself back.

    3. Re:Tiered Learning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ha, that reminds me of a talk I heard from an education professional. "Why is it when putting students together, the most important thing is their 'manufactured on' date". He was referring to how the education system really is industrial revolution based and works very much like an assembly line. His proposal was much as yours. You start in a class, and at the point you can pass an assessment, then you move on, lumping students together based on ability rather than age. Theoretically our system works that way, but it's seen as such a taboo to be held back a year that it doesn't work that way practically. Granted I think he felt that the "year" system was too course grained and these assessments should happen much more frequently. Possibly on a per module basis.

    4. Re:Tiered Learning by Gennerik · · Score: 1

      I think a year could work as long as the content is geared towards a year of learning, Though I do like more of a semester approach. That way if you can't demonstrate proficiency in a subject after a single semester, essentially repeating a semester isn't nearly such a big deal. This would definitely require restructuring how classes are taught, but overall I think it would be highly beneficial to both students and teachers.

      As a student, you are placed in classes with people of like ability and like-mindedness for learning of varying age groups. It wouldn't be unrealistic to have a two or three year spread in age groups for a particular class as some children display higher aptitude or desire for some subject than others. This would give them extended social interactions with kids not of their age groups, which would be beneficial. By keeping the classes according to a particular subject vice age, you also are likely to have classes filled with students at about the same ability.

      From a teacher's perspective, your class would be filled with kids of close abilities, so you're less likely to end up with children who are bored in class because they already get the material (troublemakers or non-involved students), so you're not teaching a room full of kids with varying proficiency in a particular subject. It would end up with the teacher being more accurately able to gage the progress of the class and gear the lectures for that class.

    5. Re:Tiered Learning by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      Uuhhhhh... the minimum wage jobs are being replaced with robots. Sorry about that. My personalized recommendation for your lesson plan is to read Player Piano, by Kurt Vonnegut.

      If these 18 year old children stay in college, they get closer to adulthood before they're foisted on the world with nothing to occupy their time. Also, "free college" doesn't make everybody want to go to "college." A lot of the colleges that would be attended would be also known as "trade schools." A significant percent of the people who don't go to college, wouldn't. But they might be willing to go to Heavy Equipment Operators School, or whatever the job that robots hate is.

  17. an extreme example: by swell · · Score: 1

    from Wikipedia:
    "Helen Adams Keller ... was an American author, political activist, and lecturer. She was the first deafblind person to earn a bachelor of arts degree. ... The story of how Keller's teacher, Anne Sullivan, broke through the isolation imposed by a near complete lack of language, allowing the girl to blossom as she learned to communicate, has become widely known through the dramatic depictions of the play and film The Miracle Worker."

    There are numerous examples, probably even in your community, of disabled people who are enabled by special efforts. It would be interesting to see examples of gifted people who are enabled by extraordinary methods.

    --
    ...omphaloskepsis often...
  18. Zuck? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is that pronounced like Suck?

    The tech billionaires are showing themselves to be the creepy control freaks they really are. Here's an idea, make it impossible to hire H1B Visas and other foreign talent so they're forced to do training for those "Jobs Americans won't/can't" do and let them put THEIR money into THEIR learning programs. Leave my kids out of it. And hey, maybe there will be a job in tech for American kids graduating from American Universities that pay what they're worth rather than 20-30% less because they've got a collection of foreign slaves to exploit at the expense of EVERYONE native to the US.

    Oh I know, here come the barrage of "I'm a racist xenophobe" because I'd prefer America to be mostly American rather than something else. If you think that you're either a moron or a foreigner yourself. Plane and simple.

    1. Re:Zuck? by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      Is that pronounced like Suck?

      Hey, I think we went to school together! I totally recognized your unique communication skills.

  19. Policy and standards by sjbe · · Score: 1

    We're pretty much experimenting with our kids education every day.

    That doesn't mean we're experimenting with the policies surrounding their education every day at a regional, state or national level. Changes come slowly in education for the most part.

    Common Core has been a miserable disaster and it was a large-scale, government run, "scientifically backed" curriculum deployment.

    Since Common Core has only been in operation for a few years it's a little premature to declare it a "miserable disaster". I'm not arguing for or against it but I think it's going to take a little while to really determine if it works or not. My guess is that if it ultimately works it's going to take a while to work the kinks out.

    Unfortunately the funding isn't there, teachers don't understand the rules and guidelines, kids are most certainly not picking up on the material in any sort of ground-breaking way, and parents are upset and frustrated

    Presuming that is all true that speaks to a botched implementation but doesn't really say much clearly about the fundamental idea, good or bad.

    You can't form a single education plan and universally apply it to 50 million children.

    Sure you can and other countries have done just that with some success. You just can't make it the entire plan for all those children. There is a reason it is called Common Core and not Common Plan. Will Common Core be a good thing at the end of the day? I have no idea but I'm pretty sure the path to get there will be bumpy.

    1. Re:Policy and standards by HiThere · · Score: 1

      When "Common Core" is all that gets taught, then it *is* the "Common Plan". And when it's all they are evaluated on, it's all that will get taught (except for rare exceptions).

      So far it has not been a good thing. I've been quite upset by pretty much ALL of the educational changes that have happened since I was in high school. And I can tell you what they were ALL about: Centralized Control. Every change has progressively removed control from teachers, and now even administrators, and placed it at a further remove. It was bad enough when the state usurped control from the local schools, but the feds are even worse.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
  20. intuitively makes sense by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 1

    While acknowledging that there's not yet any independent, large-scale research to show personalized learning's effectiveness, Zuck argues that "the model just intuitively makes sense." But just days later, Fordham University professor Mark Naison wrote in the Washington Post about why the personalized learning efforts of 'a growing number of those with investment capital seeking profitable outlets,' ...

    So did the theories of a flat Earth being the center of the Universe at one time. Seems to me like this Zucker just wants to teach people what's useful to him and his profit-seeking, investment-capital buddies. There are benefits to (a) a common educational base and (b) a well-rounded one - at least as a base.

    --
    It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
  21. Home Schooling is Personalised by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Home schoolers" have been successfully using personalised learning for quite some time.

    Home schooled children regularly do better than those who are publicly educated in spelling bees and standardised tests. The difficulty is ensuring that one keeps them sufficiently engaged with others of their age.

  22. Look to homeschooling by jasenj1 · · Score: 1

    Homeschoolers have been delivering "personalized education" for many years. Everything from choosing a complete curriculum and allowing the student to proceed at their own pace, to developing a completely custom curriculum from various sources.

    My own child participates in a program called "Classical Conversations" which provides a large chunk of the curriculum, and there are weekly sessions with a small group. Math we are doing via an online course.

    FWIW, my child is sixth grade aged, and is doing 7th+ grade level work. Is this because my child is inherently intelligent? Because of the one on one teaching? Because the curriculum happens to fit with her learning style? Who knows. But she is excelling and, IMHO, getting a far better education than she ever would in a public school where they spend the vast majority of their effort making sure the lowest performers make it over the bar rather than helping the high achievers reach their potential.

  23. Never Gonna Happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Teacher here. Personalized learning absolutely gets the best results, but it's basically impossible to implement effectively, because the options for doing so are:

    1. Personalize instruction for every student in a regular classroom with a regular distribution of skill. The problem with this is that a typical distribution of skills means that a single class can include students that are 4 grade levels ahead of their actual grade, bored out of their head with material that they mastered years ago, and students that are 4 grade levels behind, and hopelessly out of their depth. Personalizing instruction for that many students means that each one gets only a few minutes per class period of instruction from the teacher that is directly relevant to them. That's fine for students who are self-directed and self-motivated, but not for the larger student population. Also, this setup obliges the teacher to create half a dozen or more distinct lessons for each class period, which requires an impossible amount of time to be spent on lesson planning.

    2. Massively increase the teacher to student ratio, solving the problems in option 1 by giving each individual teacher a dramatically smaller number of students to work with. This, of course, would require a much larger amount of education funding, which isn't likely to happen, as well as a large number of people who are qualified to become teachers.

    3. Split students into classes based on skill level, solving the problems in option 1 by ensuring a smaller range of ability in each classroom. This was common practice at one time, and was called "ability grouping" or "tracking." It was done away with because it was felt that students in lower ability groups were not getting an equal education. This led to many parents insisting on students being placed in inappropriately-high level classes, which itself led to the higher level classes being watered down to accommodate students that should not have been in them in the first place. Also, the uneven racial and gender distribution among different ability groups led to accusations of racism and sexism, to which there was indeed some merit.

    So, basically, we have one option that's impossible for purely practical reasons, another that won't happen because of budgetary concerns, and another that won't happen because parents all think that their child deserves to be in the top level classes regardless of actual demonstrated ability.

    1. Re:Never Gonna Happen by k6mfw · · Score: 1

      about time someone summarized this. I guess you posted AC so the school admins won't give you a bad time for telling us your observations.

      --
      mfwright@batnet.com
    2. Re:Never Gonna Happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly so. Personalized instruction is a huge buzzword right now, and there's a lot of pressure to implement it, but no consideration of how it can actually be accomplished in a practical manner. Unfortunately, education fads quickly become something akin to religious doctrine, and when you go around pointing out the flaws in them, you're branded a heretic.

  24. Personalized Learning=Homeschooling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've been a fan of homeschooling for years and plan to teach all of my kids via this method.

  25. Follow the $$$... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

    When I was misdiagnosed as being mentally retarded due to an undiagnosed hearing loss in one ear, I spent eight years in Special Ed classes. What personalize learning meant in that context was that the teachers babysat the students and the school district collected the extra money from the state. That was the late 1970's and early 1980's. Since I wasn't mentally retarded (I blew out the annual evaluation exams on the genius side, which the teachers called statistical flukes), I was regarded as being a well-behaved idiot. Not sure if things have gotten better since then.

    1. Re:Follow the $$$... by KGIII · · Score: 1

      The converse is that I consistently tested with very high results. Really, I just test well and learning (comprehension, not memory) was rather difficult for the first half of my life.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    2. Re:Follow the $$$... by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      Sorry about your experience. I came so close to your fate, but I guess I was lucky. Well, maybe.

      In 2nd grade when I got bored with their stupid slow lesson plan, they transferred me to Special Ed. The teacher there was actually a lot brighter than the other teachers. She quickly assessed my real problem and sent me back. Actually, at the time it was a bit traumatic; the Special Ed kids were a lot nicer, I'd have preferred to stay there and be able to read without being harassed. ;) I felt totally rejected that I wasn't good enough for even that class. lol that was early 80s

    3. Re:Follow the $$$... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      [...] the Special Ed kids were a lot nicer, I'd have preferred to stay there and be able to read without being harassed.

      During the second grade I was sent off to a regular class for reading. No one explained to me why I was being banished to this other class for an hour each day. Special Ed class had ten kids, but a regular class had 30 kids. It was an overwhelming experience and I brawled my head off. The teachers gave up after a week. I had a college-level reading comprehension when I graduated the eighth grade, which allowed me to skip high school and go into community college. Until I started my technical career, I had the hardest time getting entry-level jobs because I didn't have a high school diploma even though I had an associate degree.

  26. A hidden benefit (transparent assignments) by beernutmark · · Score: 1

    I think that one benefit to personalized learning that is often overlooked is the transparent and clear assignments.

    My high schooler was lost in his math and English classes and it was impossible for us as parents to help him at home. The teachers did not use the on-line system at their disposal to share upcoming assignments and due dates. Assignments were only posted on line after the due date and with no information as to what the assignment was.

    Upon moving him into on-line classes for English and Math, he is now learning the material, able to know exactly what is expected, and is getting much better grades. It is unfortunate that in our case the solution was to remove him from the classroom and all the benefits having a teacher brings. I continually try to get my student's teachers to make assignments available on-line but with amazingly limited success.

  27. My experience with personalized learning by wcrowe · · Score: 1

    I don't know if this example strictly falls under the category of "personalized learning", but the best learning experience I ever had was in my Navy "A" school, that is, the school where I learned my job specialty; in this case, aviation electronics technician. Considering I began in late 1980, the way this learning system worked was pretty advanced.

    I don't know the specifics of how the program was developed, but I believe the Navy, working with engineers at IBM, created the system. They took your personal information such as education level, grades, ASVAB score, and even your SAT or ACT score (if you had one) and fed this into some sort of algorithm. The computer (named "Jim-Jim") then developed a course of study for you, with predicted completion times for each module. You then started the self-taught course following the instructions in the reading materials, and given to you by "Jim-Jim". If you needed help, there were instructors available to offer explanation or to delve deeper into concepts. Each module was fairly short and there was a test at the end of each module. A score of 100% was required to pass each test. Any questions missed, and Jim-Jim would send you back to your cubicle for study and/or help from your instructor. You could then re-take the questions you missed. This process continued until you got 100% or failed so many times as to get washed out of the program (a rarity).

    There were no boring lectures, or having to suffer through stupid questions from your classmates. You didn't feel like you had to compete with your classmates because the course was self-paced -- the only "person" you were racing against was Jim-Jim. So long as you progressed through the course, passed your tests, and completed things in the time alloted, the instructors pretty much left you alone. If you got far enough ahead of the computer you would even get awarded a day off now and then. Each school day was only a half-day long (you might be in the morning section or the afternoon section). That time could be devoted to study, if you needed it, or if you were far enough ahead, you could pretty much do whatever you wanted.

    I enjoyed the school. I found the course challenging enough, yet still managed to stay ahead of the computer schedule. In fact, I enjoyed the challenge of seeing how far ahead of Jim-Jim I could get. I'm sure it was a good deal for the Navy too. Because of the 100% required for passing, they were ensured that everyone who got through the course had been sufficiently exposed to 100% of the material.

    Could such a system work in the real world? I don't know. The Navy had an advantage that the real world doesn't in that they could motivate people who were not self-motivated. There were all kinds of creative punishment available if you got behind -- and the last thing you wanted was to get washed out of the course and sent to the fleet. In that case you might spend your whole time in the Navy just chipping paint or working in the laundry.

    In short, I would like personalized learning, but I'm pretty self-motivated. I'm not sure how well it would work for kids who didn't give a damn, and who you could not put any pressure on.

    --
    Proverbs 21:19
    1. Re:My experience with personalized learning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Could such a system work in the real world? I don't know. The Navy had an advantage that the real world doesn't in that they could motivate people who were not self-motivated. There were all kinds of creative punishment available if you got behind -- and the last thing you wanted was to get washed out of the course and sent to the fleet. In that case you might spend your whole time in the Navy just chipping paint or working in the laundry.

      In short, I would like personalized learning, but I'm pretty self-motivated. I'm not sure how well it would work for kids who didn't give a damn, and who you could not put any pressure on.

      This is the big problem, and one that a lot of big new ideas in education run into. Lots of educational techniques work wonderfully when you try them out on students who are self-motivated and enjoy learning, but fail miserably when applied to someone who doesn't care about their grades, their learning, or anything else that a school could reward and/or punish them with. It's usually assumed that such students represent a tiny minority, but that's not how things are. We've ended up with a virulently anti-intellectual culture, and that's not the sort of environment that turns out self-directed learners.

    2. Re:My experience with personalized learning by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      Lots of educational techniques work wonderfully when you try them out on students who are self-motivated and enjoy learning, but fail miserably when applied to someone who doesn't care about their grades, their learning, or anything else that a school could reward and/or punish them with.

      Success might be getting misdefined in those cases. Not everybody can be a doctor or lawyer, sorry. And most of them never asked to try. If success is to somehow "teach" uninterested students, as if education was a glass that can be filled by the teacher, then failure is the forever result.

      Instead of "no child left behind," maybe we should try, "no child prevented from advancing." And then the ones in the back, make sure they have access, are getting minimal exposure to possibilities, and are having fun.

      I know in my case I was getting punished for writing computer code (on paper) instead of repeating the math problems that I already knew how to solve. I didn't care about their lesson plan, their grades, or anything they could reward/punish me with, either. Now, a lot of people sympathize with that story, but they don't sympathize with my classmate who was getting in trouble for drawing cartoons all day. Animators make good money, he was practicing something more important to his life than whatever the class was. He makes more than most of the "professionals" he went to school with, mostly because he was too stubborn to do what the teachers told him. And if he was just a dullard... would forcing math on him and brightened him up any? Reading slashdot comments should dissuade anybody from that idea, almost all these idiots are experienced in maths.

    3. Re:My experience with personalized learning by volmtech · · Score: 1

      I went to MM A school in late 1972. We had workbooks and daily lectures with a test on Friday. Anyone who failed was gone on Monday. If you maintained an A average you didn't have to stand guard duty. I loved my A average. After the last test of the course I was offered a chance to attend nuclear power school. To this day I regret that I declined.

      The course work for rate advancement was self paced study books. After six years I made 2nd class. I wasn't good with the military part of being in the Navy but I was good at taking those tests.

  28. Lurch Lurch Lurch by MrKrillls · · Score: 2

    This will be one more poorly thought out wild faddish lurch in educational policy, to the detriment of kid's education. I don't mean that PL is bad or wrong, but that this, like most changes in education will be introduced in a way that will tend toward failure. There's a long list of essentially good ideas that have been horribly botched by taking them to Broadway before the bumps and wrinkles in the script have been ironed out. The smart way to eventually get to an eventual large scale educational change is to start small with testing in very small pilot projects, iterating them independently until one or several paths to good outcomes, and just as importantly, paths to avoid, are identified. And then, scale up to bigger pilot projects. New issues will probably pop up at a new scale, and then after really seeing how it works, and IF it works, really scale up. But that requires long term, realistic planning and leadership that can look out to the horizon. A scarce resource. In the meantime, most investment should remain in iterative improvements in the mainstream - getting and creating more qualified teachers - through better training and for the most difficult disciplines, math, physics science, extending the budget to get people who really know, love and can teach hard to teach subjects. People love to flog "the new math" and Common Core, but if you look at content and intent, they are excellent ideas, but both needed radically different introduction, and needed a lot of the wrinkles sorted out. I was one of the few lucky kids who truly benefited from "the new math". I had good teachers who "got it", who had a fair grasp on sets and modular math and and .... at an elementary level. When I hit those topics later, I wasn't lost. It all made sense.

    --
    Don't step on the baby.
    1. Re:Lurch Lurch Lurch by MrKrillls · · Score: 1

      Darn it - keep forgetting I have to format paragraphing.... My apologies.

      --
      Don't step on the baby.
  29. Programmed instruction books by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Back in the day, there used to be a bunch of books with a form factor resembling the Barrons/Princeton Review study guides, but the internal format was different: it was a quiz question followed by an answer. The idea was that you can advance at your own pace, but if you didn't understand the material you would stop turning pages and could retreat back to an earlier point and resume the course.

    The idea made perfect sense, but the rate of progress was so slow that I invariably grew impatient. You could work through 100 pages and learn about 10 pages of material in a different text. One of the better ones, which isn't marketed as "Programmed Instruction", is the "Little Schemer" series by the MIT CS professors. Even that seemed a little bit laborious.

  30. so where did/how Gates and Zuckerberg by k6mfw · · Score: 1

    get their education? Yes, probably I can google it to find out but my feeling is these smart guys and others were well educated (reading, writing, math, organizing, critical thinking, managing, etc.) but it didn't come from many of these whiz-bang concepts they are promoting (it didn't exist for them). I see it as they got a good education during their childhood/teenager years so they immediately able to absorb high level college courses (unlike many of us had to struggle at JC to catch up of what we didn't get in HS). But these guys forgot of what it takes to be well grounded in this stuff they figured don't need to waste all that time, just jump right into high level stuff. Yeah, lots of luck jumping into a Boeing 787 before learning the basics in a Cessna 182 (but also need to be able to read the manual and follow instructions from the CFI).

    Or maybe it is all part of a scheme to end public schooling and return to the days where your family either taught you at home (before you take up a job at local factory along with other children) or wealthy enough to send you to private school.

    --
    mfwright@batnet.com
  31. Re:Slowly back to monarchy by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

    Have you seen Mark Dice? We have plenty of people in college that have no business being there because they don't know anything worth knowing, while having their heads filled with meaningless garbage (Kardashians, Snookie, Brad Pitt etc)

    --
    Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
  32. An academic is pessimistic about public education? by mikein08 · · Score: 1

    Maybe this gentleman should look at the current state of public education in this country today. It's broken. It's unfixable. The parents don't care if their children get a decent education; the school boards and districts do not care about educating the kids - they care about preserving their jobs; the teachers unions do not care about educating the children - they care only about making life easier for their membership. And the federal and state level bureaucracies don't care either - for the usual and obvious reasons. As for the Gates's and the Zuckerbergs, let them put their charity dollars where they want, but try real hard not to believe that they are experts about anything and don't give any heed to their pontificating. If you want your child to have a good education, send him or her to a quality PRIVATE school. Sending your child to public school qualifies as serious child abuse IMNSHO. As Robert Heinlein wrote decades ago, "Do not handicap your children by making their lives easy".

  33. Zuck? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why the hell doesn't the summary use his full name? I didn't think anything could make Mark Zuckerberg more annoying, but this certainly proved me wrong. Calling him "Zuck" just sound so retarded it makes my head hurt.

  34. Sorry, but PLATO is to current networked learning by jpellino · · Score: 1

    as a bleriot is to a 787. Same underlying principles, but far richer and more integrated means. Yes, there are 40 year old papers discussing the merits of 512x512 graphics and air powered microfiche, but we're a bit beyond that. Mostly in the increasing symmetry between consumption and creation by learners. Educational resources are commodities. Textbooks, videos, eBooks, etc. are available from a wide array of providers. Ditto the wrappers - blackboard, canvas, edx, etc... The wrappers are now also a commodity. Given the state of formal education, a coordinating wrapper around all of these resources is not bad. We used to call those wrappers a classroom/instructor. Gates and Zuck will have to complete in the marketplace, their chief advantage will be already having a mess of people in their ecosystem who will have to learn one less login. Just like there is no best way to teach, there is no best way to teach online. There are a lot of good ways to teach, and a lot of good ways to teach online. Gates and Zuck having a product with a large population to please is really no different from the current state of textbooks, which amounts to "I'll have what Cali and Texas are having" given they have historically had the largest state-buys for textbooks.

    --
    "Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."
  35. Re:An academic is pessimistic about public educati by slew · · Score: 1

    As Robert Heinlein wrote decades ago, "Do not handicap your children by making their lives easy".

    On the flip side, if you want to conspire to make your kids lives easier than their peers by letting them avoid the challenge they would have getting a decent education in a public school...

    Sure as a parent, there is a certain amount of shielding you want to give your kids (say if the local public school was infested with gangs, guns, drugs, etc.), but tracking your kids at an early age to an highly academic (or religious depending on your school) program might better serve your desires as a parent, than their interests as a life learner. There is also something to be said about exposure to diversity (in religion, ethnicity, income, etc) that is greater in a public school environment.

    And if your goal is actually to send your kid to an "ivy-league" school, you might actually be better off with having them attend a public school because of the big-fish-little-pond effect. Not just an antecdoe, but actually illustrated by this study

    Something to think about...

  36. I wouldn't personalize in that way by jd · · Score: 1

    I'd use conventional classes, but have about seven for speed (up to +/- 3 standard deviations from normal speed of learning) by seven for style of learning, producing 49 classes per subject at any given level. I'd abandon the notion of years entirely and allow people to slip between classes freely. The reason for slippage is not just so that a person can throttle up/down their learning, but it's also because some people are excellent support for others that aren't necessarily in the same stream. You have to allow individuals to do what is best for the group, should they wish to do so, even if it sacrifices some of their own understanding.

    I'd use nutritional theory to supplement this - three smaller meals over the school day, for easier digestion, tuned to provide the best nutrition for mind and body as understood at the time, without being so exotic that kids won't eat. Fast food of any kind, and anything containing HFCS or other nutritionally dubious substances should be banned outright from campus. High sugar just high enough to mask excess bitterness (say, in tea or coffee) is tolerable as long as consumption is limited to three cups of each a day, but it's best if nothing with added sugar is present. Complex carbohydrates produce a much more evenly sustained level of energy.

    Psychology is also important. Classes should be time-tabled for an individual according to their attention span and recovery rate. There's no point in overloading someone with information they can't absorb, but there's also no point in letting kids get excessively bored as it's hard to recover the pace if you lose momentum.

    That's as personalized as you need. Computers may assist in that process, but computer-based learning will always be inferior to group learning that includes computer assistance.

    --
    It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
  37. Economics and null hypothesis by sjbe · · Score: 1

    You're assuming the current state (public education with a uniform curriculum) is the default state

    That would be correct. Any changes are going to be from the current state and any change that results in a regression or stagnation in performance or performance/cost should be rejected.

    The correct default state is actually no education.

    Nonsense. This isn't drug testing where we are comparing against a placebo to see if it has any effect. Any change to the educational system that doesn't improve on what we already have (cost and/or outcomes) is wasteful. To disprove the null hypothesis requires that a given change (say customized curriculums) will result in a statistically significant improvement in outcomes and/or cost. There is no point in proving that a method is an improvement over no education unless it is also better than our current system.

    Like the effect filesharing has had on music/movie distribution costs, computers and the Internet reduce most of the cost-reducing benefit of a uniform curriculum to near zero.

    First off there is no such thing as a uniform curriculum in the real world. The fact that we require certain subjects to be taught to all isn't the same thing as a uniform curriculum. Second, your comparison with file sharing is specious and has no bearing on the actual economics of education because education doesn't work like you are supposing. The internet doesn't magically make the marginal cost of teaching a student go anywhere close to zero, nor do tools to customize a curriculum. They can help but they are hardly the magical elixir you are supposing.

    And anyway he's offering to pay for the experiment so what are you complaining about?

    That he is presuming the outcome prior to the experiment. I should have thought that was obvious.

    Around 2000, computers and the Internet (better, cheaper communications) made it feasible for you to custom-order exactly what options you want in your car and have the factory manufacture it that way.

    The error in your thinking is presuming that the economics of education work like those of manufacturing. They don't. Education is very difficult to scale effectively. The notion that the internet and other technology tools has reduced marginal cost to provide teaching services to zero is demonstrably untrue.

  38. Why school? by iceaxe · · Score: 1

    Where in the world did we get this insane notion that education should be totally or even primarily outsourced to someone else in a building down the road a ways?

    School in its various incarnations is a useful tool, but children learn *everywhere*, all the time. So do adults, if they are paying attention.

    How about we focus our efforts on using the best available tools for the right jobs, and stop expecting "somebody else" to do all the hard parts?

    Raising kids "right" starts before they're even conceived, and involves a lifelong commitment to seeing that your offspring get the very best you can provide in the way of teaching, providing, leading, guiding, and also getting the heck out of their way sometimes.

    So, every kid, regardless of what happens for the minority of time spent in an institution of public forced indoctrination, gets a unique individual learning experience, whether you like it or not, and whether you planned it or mandated it or not. Sometimes it's a good one, far too often it's a neglectful one.

    If you plan for schools to raise your kid, you're doing it wrong.

    --
    WALSTIB!
  39. Re:An academic is pessimistic about public educati by Aighearach · · Score: 1

    the teachers
    unions do not care about educating the children - they care only about making life easier for their membership.

    Thank goodness for that, it is their job! I support union rights, but I don't like it when unions get involved in things other than collective bargaining and enforcing said bargain. If the teacher unions acting like police unions, the children would be suffering for it.

    I read most of Heinlein's books. They were fiction. They said lots of different things. He didn't say that particular thing in a way that brings insight, he only said it in a way that tells you that character's character.

    You probably learned about "the state of public education" from AM radio or cable news, because the state of private education is identical. The range of offerings in public and private school teaching systems is exactly the same. If you are in a wealthy neighborhood, the public school will not be distinguishable from a private school with the same income level parents. And a private school that is run by donations and has mostly poor students, will not be different from their neighboring public school. Duh. My parents were poor and found the poor neighborhood that was on the edge of rich school's side of the line, so I got a high quality public school education. The results are not different from the private schools, except that some of the private schools also teach religion.

  40. Re:An academic is pessimistic about public educati by Aighearach · · Score: 1

    Heck, if you really want to make sure your kid doesn't have it easy and has to learn the hard way and become a Heinleinian Uberman, just leave him out the woods to grow up with animals. If he lives, he'll be the smartest, best educated, most self-driven man in the world. If you deny him that opportunity, there is no way for him to overcome that handicap later.

    Don't handicap your kids by making their lives easy. If you want them to learn to overcome, at least cut off their feet or something so they don't have it so easy.

  41. Kill classes, they aren't flexible. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    To really offer any sense of personalized learning, you need to kill the concept of distinct classes and "grades". And by grades, I mean those splits in classes based on progress. Horribly flawed system since it just leads to prejudice and slowing down those less advantaged, and usually puts a bunch of students in with noisy, disruptive kids that simply don't want to learn. (of course, I have seen some good ways to treat these sorts of kids, giving them their own custom education tied to them, giving them headphones to listen to music to relax them, some little simple things like that)

    Class-based layout of education is the most central part of education, so good luck with that.
    It would require a complete rework of the system.

    Of course, if you keep it only to tertiary education, it would be trivial since you can make those people pay tens of thousands out the ass for it :^).

  42. Calling Mr Stephenson... by jewens · · Score: 1

    I just want a personal copy of "A Young Lady's Illustrated Primer".

    Even if I'm not young, or a lady.

    --
    That group of bovine standing over there appears quite portentous. That's right it's an ominous cow herd.
  43. What most people don't get about "personalized" by matbury · · Score: 1

    Four Reasons to Worry About “Personalized Learning”

    By Alfie Kohn

    Tocqueville’s observations about the curious version of democracy that Americans were cultivating in the 1830s have served as a touchstone for social scientists ever since. One sociologist writes about the continued relevance of what Tocqueville noticed way back then, particularly the odd fact that we cherish our commitment to individualism yet experience a “relentless pressure to conform.” Each of us can do what he likes as long as he ends up fundamentally similar to everyone else: You’re “free to expand as a standardized individual.”

    A couple of decades ago, that last phrase reminded me of how our pitiful individuality was screwed to the backs of our cars in the form of customized license plates. Today it brings to mind what goes by the name “personalized learning.”

    A suffix can change everything. When you attach -ality to sentiment, for example, you end up with what Wallace Stevens called a failure of feeling. When -ized is added to personal, again, the original idea has been not merely changed but corrupted — and even worse is something we might call Personalized Learning, Inc. (PLI), in which companies sell us digital products to monitor students while purporting to respond to the differences among them.

    Personal learning entails working with each child to create projects of intellectual discovery that reflect his or her unique needs and interests. It requires the presence of a caring teacher who knows each child well.

    Personalized learning entails adjusting the difficulty level of prefabricated skills-based exercises based on students’ test scores. It requires the purchase of software from one of those companies that can afford full-page ads in Education Week.

    For some time, corporations have sold mass-produced commodities of questionable value and then permitted us to customize peripheral details to suit our “preferences.” In the 1970s, Burger King rolled out its “Have it your way!” campaign, announcing that we were now empowered to request a recently thawed slab of factory-produced ground meat without the usual pickle — or even with extra lettuce! In America, I can be me!

    A couple of decades later, the production company that created Barney, the alarmingly friendly purple dinosaur, sold personalized videos called “My Party with Barney.” You mailed them a photo of your kid’s face and they digitally attached it to a generic animated child’s body that “plays” with Barney in the video. Your kid’s name is also inserted into the soundtrack every so often to complete the customization, with Barney enthusing: “Have a balloon Abigail!” The result may have delighted, or even fooled, some three year olds. But why in god’s name are adult educators buying the equivalent of My Party with Barney in order to boost their students’ reading scores?

    *

    How can we tell when the lovely idea of personal learning has been co-opted and then twisted into PLI? Here are four warning signs:

    1. The tasks have been personalized for kids, not created by them. With PLI, the center of gravity is outside the students (as Dewey once put it), and their choices are limited to when — or maybe, if they’re lucky, how – they’ll master a set of skills mandated by people who have never met them. In the words of education author Will Richardson, “’Personalized’ learning is something that we do to kids; ‘personal’ learning is something they do for themselves.”

    Sometimes one of the corporate folks will let slip an acknowledgement of just how student-centered their programs aren’t. “In education,” a publishing executive explained to a reporter, personalization is “not about giving students what they want, it’s about a recommended learning path just for them.” A t

  44. I'm the Quitter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    [Posting Anonymously]

    I quit school at Christmas break in Grade 12. I found it boring beyond belief, and by then had enough. I remember overhearing a phone conversation between the School Principal and my mother in May of the school year where he divulged my IQ had tested above 135 and indicating that if I would just go back for the last three weeks of the Academic Year "he could still graduate". I refused.

    There existed the option of going to a gifted program where students were expected to skip a year, but I wasn't eligible as I was already a year younger than my classmates, since pre-school testing allowed me to start Grade 1 at age 5 (I never attended kindergarten).

    That was partly because I already had my full credits for Maths (2 classes), Literature (2 classes) and some Sciences (Physics) because my teachers in those subjects allowed me to work independently, ahead of the class. This in a non-semestered program in the Public School System in Canada, so you can't graduate from any class before June.

    My Chem and Biology teachers refused to allow me to do my Labs outside the schedule, and you had to put in your time for my 2nd Language and Phys Ed classes, (mandatory for graduation) so I got failing grades in those. (Some of my final grades: a 91 in Physics and an 8 in Chemistry, which I found amusing to no end).

    So I do have some Grade 12 Credits, just not enough to Graduate.

    Now, I'm retired at 58 and have a 4-year B.A. (Honours) Degree but no High School Diploma.

  45. Back in my day... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... we called it an apprenticeship.

  46. It's NOT either but BOTH by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You can NOT educate people who have entirely different contexts of knowledge. So this is where the tradition "common core" of knowledge is necessary for everyone. The big mistake is presuming that EVERYONE needs to be college-bound or PhD-level in their preparation - the least common denominator may need to be either lower or tiered/plateaued (which is an aspect of personalization).

    There is also the matter of personalization in learning styles. This is definitely where a "one size fits all" of US public schools is Epic Fail especial in terms of not "tracking" different personal performance levels. This can range from a Montessori style discovery vs. a Asian style rote method. This includes gifted students vs. middle students vs. not-either students - it only harms to have everyone at the same level out of political correct "fairness" or ideology. Reality doesn't work like that.

    The key is there isn't a magical top-down solution that doesn't allow flexible interpretation and adjustment in the specific individual cases!