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Unofficial Answers: Why Does YouTube Seem So Biased? (vortex.com)

Lauren Weinstein writes with some insight on an frustrating aspect of YouTube's video hosting service: "Why does Google's YouTube seem so biased against ordinary users who upload videos? I've unfairly had my videos blocked, received copyright strikes for my own materials, and even had my account suspended — and it's impossible to reach anyone at YouTube to complain!" No, YouTube isn't biased against you — not voluntarily, anyway. But it could definitely be argued that the copyright legal landscape — particularly in the mainstream entertainment industry — is indeed biased against the "little guys," and Google's YouTube must obey the laws as written. What's more, YouTube exists at the "bleeding edge" of the intersection of technology and law, where there's oh so much that goes bump in the night ...

36 of 178 comments (clear)

  1. YouTube by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    YouTube is the embodiment of all the "problems" the internet was supposed to solve. My internet was a peer-to-peer system, with all peers being equal, two-way flow of content, empowering the little guys, the voiceless, and letting unpopular messages be heard just as loudly as the mainstream ones.

    Today's internet is exactly what all of us feared; Cable TV 2.0, and it really fucking sucks. Where I once had hope and positivity for the future because technology was going to empower us, I now have emptiness and see nothing but bleakness for the future because we let technology enslave us.

    1. Re:YouTube by Pseudonymous+Powers · · Score: 4, Funny

      Where I once had hope and positivity for the future because technology was going to empower us, I now have emptiness and see nothing but bleakness for the future because we let technology enslave us.

      Whoa, dude, that's pretty heavy. We're talking about that site where all the pre-teens make homemade music videos for Katy Perry songs, right?

    2. Re:YouTube by Major+Blud · · Score: 4, Insightful

      empowering the little guys, the voiceless, and letting unpopular messages be heard just as loudly as the mainstream ones.

      So says the AC ;-)

      --
      If you post as Anonymous Coward, don't expect a reply.
    3. Re:YouTube by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      YouTube is the embodiment of all the "problems" the internet was supposed to solve. My internet was a peer-to-peer system, with all peers being equal, two-way flow of content, empowering the little guys, the voiceless, and letting unpopular messages be heard just as loudly as the mainstream ones.

      Today's internet is exactly what all of us feared; Cable TV 2.0, and it really fucking sucks. Where I once had hope and positivity for the future because technology was going to empower us, I now have emptiness and see nothing but bleakness for the future because we let technology enslave us.

      Posting AC because of mods, but I agree with you, heavily. It's rather crushing to go back and read predictions made in the 70's, 80's, and even into the 90's. There was so much optimism and innovative ideas, there were actually individuals, and it was decentralized - you could actually own a piece of the internet. People even hosted their own websites!! Imagine that. Watching it all fade to the world of Twitter and Facebook...

    4. Re:YouTube by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You could set up ACTube, and be the gatekeeper of your website like they're the gatekeeper of theirs. YouTube isn't a public utility. It's a for-profit business that will make decisions that they believe to be in their best interest.

    5. Re:YouTube by Sax+Russell+5449D29A · · Score: 2

      There was so much optimism and innovative ideas, there were actually individuals, and it was decentralized - you could actually own a piece of the internet. People even hosted their own websites!! Imagine that. Watching it all fade to the world of Twitter and Facebook...

      Whenever there's a new field to be conquered, there tends to be a rush of all sorts of people trying out their ideas. In the end, though, things always start to centralize. Big corporations industrialize even the most mundane things we see on the Internet. If they don't produce the content themselves, they still run the platform the content is produced on (Facebook, Twitter, Blogspot, YouTube etc.)

      While the sort of backbone of the Internet has become more and more centralized, I don't think "our" kind of thinkers, who run their own servers and services, have ever gone down in numbers. The Internet around us has just grown so much bigger that our relative size is comparably small. Young people are still very much interested about tinkering with technology and it's now easier than ever (Rapsberry Pi, Adruino etc.) There's also more good advice on the Internet than ever before, and I myself also gladly help when people ask for help with their servers and whatnot.

      --
      -SR
    6. Re:YouTube by MightyMartian · · Score: 2

      It has little choice. The problem here is that no one wants to enforce any consequences against those who are making false copyright claims.

      The real problem is too may lawyers.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    7. Re:YouTube by Andy+Dodd · · Score: 5, Insightful

      A lot of it boils down to the rise of heavily asymmetric connectivity combined with "no servers" clauses in many ISP contracts.

      That kind of killed the whole distributed nature of things...

      Oh yeah, guess who are involved heavily in the last-mile service market? Cable companies.

      --
      retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
    8. Re:YouTube by NatasRevol · · Score: 2

      You mean before the real money came to play.

      So, just like every other development.

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    9. Re:YouTube by basscomm · · Score: 2

      Posting AC because of mods, but I agree with you, heavily. It's rather crushing to go back and read predictions made in the 70's, 80's, and even into the 90's. There was so much optimism and innovative ideas, there were actually individuals, and it was decentralized - you could actually own a piece of the internet. People even hosted their own websites!! Imagine that. Watching it all fade to the world of Twitter and Facebook...

      Hey now, I own a piece of the Internet (several, in fact), and I still run a few websites for my personal enjoyment/enrichment and to get my personal message out there, but since each website I run is one out of about a billion voices, it's tough to be heard above the din.

      There are a lot more non-technical users of the Internet these days than there are technical users, but everyone wants their voice to be heard. The problem is that for people like you and me, setting up and maintaining a website is trivial, but to the average Internet user, setting up a website, even one that's barebones HTML is either too hard, or too time consuming. The masses flock to places like twitter and facebook and youtube because they can get their message out quickly and easily and they don't have to have any technical skill (which is to say, they don't have to *gasp* learn something).

      --
      http://crummysocks.com
    10. Re:YouTube by dryeo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Don't worry, the new free trade agreements coming on line were partially written by the content holders and loopholes like safe harbour provisions will go away in the name of harmonization

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    11. Re:YouTube by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Since when was the internet supposed to be "peer-to-peer, with all peers being equal"? It was NEVER designed or intended that way. Those words mean things, and I don't think they mean what you think they mean. You're confusing the Internet with a Lantastic network.

      And on what planet do you think unpopular messages have ever been broadcast as loudly as mainstream ones, in any forum, at any time? If anything, setting up a personal blog and getting your voice heard is easier than its ever been in history. Even so, the freedom of speech the internet affords us means while you have a right to say what you want to say, no one is obliged to listen to you. If you were expecting the internet to be any different, than simply put, you were a massive fool for expecting the impossible.

      Oh, and lighten up, Francis.

      --
      Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
    12. Re:YouTube by Zaowulf · · Score: 4, Funny

      The real problem is too may lawyers.

      We should sue!

    13. Re:YouTube by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No, it really wasn't. I was there. The internet was a smattering of academic, government, and large corporate sites which was generally only useful to other in similar fields, and certainly nothing which your average person could find or use. In fact, it was actually a rather exclusive club.

      Do you know what it has now? Github. Stack Overflow. Wikipedia. Online API documentation, programmimg tutorials and example of nearly *everything*. Help forums for both end users and experts alike. Streaming audio and video. MMOs. Downloadable videogames. Awesome stuff that I use every day, both professionally and for entertainment purposes. Okay, it has Facebook, Comcast, and cyber-criminals as well, but you take the bad with the good.

      Sorry, but this mythical "golden age of the Internet" was never there. It was really only even *close* to being true if you happened to be a university employee or student (grad student or higher) with direct access to the net through the major university backbones, and even then it was really only a promise of things to come. While I'm sure it was awesome having the internet more or less as a personal playground, I'll take the internet today, warts and all, a thousand times over.

      --
      Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
    14. Re: YouTube by Darinbob · · Score: 2

      We had MUDs in the good old days, better than the MMOs and just as addictive.

  2. This is a rhetorical question; right? by BlindRobin · · Score: 4, Informative

    Google has a preference for channels that produce revenue and so mitigate the overhead of maintaining YouTube. Smaller channels cost more than the make so get passively discouraged.

    1. Re:This is a rhetorical question; right? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      Some of these channels are pretty big and make a fair bit of revenue, and in fact revenue theft by bogus copyright notice is one of the biggest problems they have. YouTube made it so that some companies can submit a copyright claim and immediately begin stealing all revenue for that video or even the whole channel. One of the requested changes is to have the revenue put into a holding account until the claim is resolved, because once stolen it never gets returned even when the thief is caught.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  3. Re:So don't? by Tx · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The signal-to-noise ratio may not be that great, but there's plenty of good content on there. Once you find channels that you like, and subscribe to them, all the noise just passes you by as if it didn't exist.

    --
    Oh no... it's the future.
  4. It's money. by gurps_npc · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Money wins against free, 90% of the time. Money pays people to do work, then free has to do that work for nothing.

    We need the following system in place, by law.

    1) Youtube (and similar sites), must rank all censor requestors that make more than 10 requests a year, by how many requests are found to be invalid.

    2) Those that rank in the bottom 5%, i.e. more of your requests are found to be invalid than 95% of the rest of the requestors), then next year, you must pay a refundable fee of $120 per request. If it is found to be invalid, the person you tried to censor gets $100, Youtube keeps the $20.

    3) If you attempt to game the system (by using multiple logins or other methods), you must pay double that fee.

    --
    excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
    1. Re:It's money. by UnknowingFool · · Score: 2

      This might seem like the answer you are wanting but under the DMCA, you can sue in small claims those who keep posting fraudulent takedown notices. See Lenz v. Universal. At best it would get someone's attention as my understanding that these erroneous takedowns come in two varieties: 1) companies who don't blindly send out notices to anything resembling their IP and 2) fraudsters looking to make money.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
  5. This is why YT is so messed up by joneil · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I posted a video last year, and when I first made the video, I used an old blue song that was recorded 90 years ago and is long out of copyright. You can easily find it on the internet archive. Well of course I get the dreaded "copyright violation", etc, etc. I challenged it, even provided YT with the link to the internet archive and links to information about the song, why it is in public domain, etc. Still lost the challenge.

    So okay, next video I use one on youtube itself. They provide songs you can supposedly use hassle free when you edit your video online. The first couple go fine, but about my 4vth or 5th video i upload, I get a copyright violation notice again. So I challenge it and point out that I used the music as provided by youtube itself in it's own video editing menu. Still lost the challenge. I don't think they even read or pay attention to these challenges at all.

    At this point I seldom use YT for anything now. I totally agree people are abusing YT for many things, but punishing the honest user is not helping the situation at all either. Youtube needs to pull their head out of their arse, but hell will likely freeze over first.

    1. Re:This is why YT is so messed up by Zeromous · · Score: 4, Interesting

      > I don't think they even read or pay attention to these challenges at all.

      This is the crux of the problem here. They don't actually honor appeals process unless you are a big company with big bucks to sue them with.

      --
      ---Up Up Down Down Left Right Left Right B A START
  6. It's not just you by Zontar_Thing_From_Ve · · Score: 2

    One of my friends uses Blender to create his own videos at times. His content isn't earth shattering or likely to be of interest to anybody outside of his circle of friends and acquaintances. He canceled his YouTube account a few years ago because he got tired of continually getting his videos flagged over the music they used. He was very careful to use old classical music not under copyright with performances available under a Creative Commons license, and YouTube kept flagging them all and pointing him to a licensing service. He decided that basically YouTube just wanted to shake him down for some money (pretty sure they get a cut of what the licensing company makes) and he objected to it, so he closed his account and moved his videos to a different service. I'm not sure, but I think he's using Vimeo now.

    It's not impossible to get your own videos through YouTube without any problem. My nephews have done it for goofy stuff they shot themselves with friends that doesn't use any music. I took a quick look at the linked to article and we need a lot more info than seems to be provided on just what exactly these videos are. YouTube is pretty inconsistent in what they flag. I've seen some interesting tricks used to get copyrighted stuff past the monitoring bots. If the complainer is trying to get, for example, TV or movie excerpts through or even worse entire episodes or movies, there might be good reasons why it's being flagged.

  7. I think there's a battle going on inside YouTube by H3lldr0p · · Score: 2

    On the one hand they're trying to protect some of the users from that crap. There's even a pilot program supposedly. However that program has largely gone quiet.

    And on the other hand they're bound by agreements struck with the likes of television producers and music labels. And who knows what's in those things? I suspect that there's more than one directive for YouTube to follow.

    Given all of this, I'm thinking that there's a contingent in YT that wants to be sued by one of the bigger channels for some of this stupidity. If it was my business, I would want something to happen so we could have a 21st century version of the Sony decision. That way I could get out from under all of this policing of copyright and get back to developing the platform.

  8. Calm down by sjbe · · Score: 5, Interesting

    YouTube is the embodiment of all the "problems" the internet was supposed to solve.

    That's a little hyperbolic don't you think?

    My internet was a peer-to-peer system, with all peers being equal, two-way flow of content, empowering the little guys, the voiceless, and letting unpopular messages be heard just as loudly as the mainstream ones.

    What color is the sky on your planet? A peer to peer system with all peers being equal? Never been true in practice since the internet was founded. It has aspects of a peer-to-peer system but the internet is more complicated than that. Differences in bandwidth alone make a true peer-to-peer internet impossible even if we ignore the legal and economic landscape. Empowering the little guys? It already does. But empowered does not and never will mean equal results. Letting unpopular messages be heard? It does that but only to a point. Getting an unpopular message heard requires an audience and unless you can match the big content makers economic resources you're very unlikely to be able to match their audience.

    Where I once had hope and positivity for the future because technology was going to empower us, I now have emptiness and see nothing but bleakness for the future because we let technology enslave us.

    Ok Neitsche, calm down. Sounds like you were a young idealist and you've grown up and figured out that the world is a touch more complicated than you hoped it would be. It's not all roses but it's not all gloom and doom either. Technology isn't "enslaving us" any more than it ever did. Just because it didn't turn out to be a utopian fantasy doesn't mean everything is bad and we are all slaves.

    1. Re:Calm down by Solandri · · Score: 2

      What color is the sky on your planet? A peer to peer system with all peers being equal? Never been true in practice since the internet was founded.

      It used to be if you wanted to host a video, post a blog, send an email, whatever, you bought a computer, installed your own web server on it, connected it using your own paid-for Internet access, and put the video on your own website running on your own hardware. (Well, the email was usually provided by your work or school, but stuff for the web was your own responsibility.)

      But people are lazy and cheap. When someone offered to do all that setup for them, and especially when someone offered to pay for it for them, then flocked to that "service" and uploaded all their content there. GeoCities, MySpace, Hotmail, Gmail, YouTube, Facebook, etc. They all make it easier to put your content on the web, but you give up direct control and the availability of your content is subject to the whims of those companies and their policies.

      Ok Neitsche, calm down. Sounds like you were a young idealist and you've grown up and figured out that the world is a touch more complicated than you hoped it would be.

      No, he's right. We fought this fight in the 1980s and 1990s and won. CompuServe, Prodigy, GEnie, AOL, heck even Microsoft (MSN was originally their attempt at a paid online dialup service, a joint effort with NBC, hence MSNBC) tried to make the online world a walled garden where you paid them for access and they controlled all content you could access "online." BBSes and eventually the Internet allowed you to share your personal content without any corporate oversight - you controlled access to and the availability of your own stuff. It didn't matter if nobody was coming to see it, as long as you paid to keep the hardware running and the Internet connection up, it was still available. This is why Windows didn't get a TCP/IP stack until Windows 95. Gates tried to dissuade people from using the Internet because it was a competitor to MSN. You had to be a bit of a hacker and get Trumpet Winsock installed onto Windows 3.x (wasn't a simple click installer) to make it able to connect to the Internet. Until demand became overwhelming and he had to make it easy to access the Internet with Windows or risk people flocking to a different OS.

      But the laziness and cheapness of people in the 2000s and 2010s have allowed that control to creep back into the hands of these large corporations. They got their walled gardens back, they just operate on top of the Internet instead of in competition with it.

      I pay a couple hundred bucks a year for a reseller's account at a web hosting service, and give free server and website space to my friends and relatives who ask for it. I guide them through registering their own domain and setting up their own website and installing their own web packages to host their own content (the web host makes it pretty easy). Once you get the hang of it, it's not that hard. But it's not as easy as typing a URL into your web browser, logging into your account at that website, and clicking the "upload" button. The masses got to choose between freedom and easy, and they picked easy.

  9. Happened to me by Sir_Eptishous · · Score: 3, Interesting
    But I guess I got off easy.
    A friend loaned me a DVD of an old Italian Spaghetti Western, that was in Italian with English subtitles.
    Kind of a cult classic.

    This is a film you can't get on DVD or any other way.
    There is no way to watch this film, period.

    So I ripped it and uploaded it to YouTube.
    Then about a month later I got an email from YouTube/Google, whoevertheyare, saying:

    [Copyright claim] Your video has been blocked

    the claim was from some German film company...
    Then about two weeks later they released the claim.

    Why keep art hidden away so it will never be seen or enjoyed.
    I can understand blocking things that are already available and can be purchased.
    But for something that is unavailable?

    --
    We play the game with the bravery of being out of range
    1. Re:Happened to me by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 2
      It was done by:
      • An automated program,
      • A person who doesn't care about his job,
      • A person who gets paid by every confirmed takedown.

      Youtube doesn't care because compliance is something they are required to do and they don't make any money off tiny users, thus no incentive to spend time fixing false positives. Tiny users get screwed? Let them eat cake.

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
  10. Re:Live Concert Videos by Maritz · · Score: 2

    So, in your mind, someone is going to watch a clip of a concert, with shitty distorted audio, INSTEAD of going to the concert? Wow. That's a whole new level of fucking idiotic.

    Inspiring.

    --
    I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
  11. Re:Live Concert Videos by Sir_Eptishous · · Score: 2

    It's not a valid complaint, true, but his point is also true.
    I've noticed for the last few years how much inconsistency there is regarding who/what gets blocked for violation.

    --
    We play the game with the bravery of being out of range
  12. Re:Live Concert Videos by alzoron · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This is a prime example of why I am skeptical when people complain about getting unfair copyright notices on Youtube. There are a lot of individuals out there that don't have a clue how the various IP laws work yet think they're experts.

    I'm not saying that Youtube is perfect. I've seen some actual abuses and false claims made but for every legitimate complaint I see a hundred instances where someone did something like mix their wedding footage with some Katy Perry songs, upload it to Youtube and then wonder why they got a copyright strike for their totally original material.

    Why can't I do that, but other people post concert videos and even full albums, full music DVD rips, etc. and they don't get taken down?

    If the guy driving ahead of you is over the speed limit on the highway and they don't get pulled over that doesn't mean it's suddenly ok for you to speed too.

  13. Re:Live Concert Videos by RobotRunAmok · · Score: 2

    ...and so I'm thinking I may buy some tickets to see that band when they tour my area, because I have all their albums and am curious how they sound in concert, and I do a search on the net to see what I can find, and I come across your cell phone recording "crappy sound and all," and think, reasonably, hey, maybe this band ain't worth the 50 bucks, I'll just stay home and enjoy them on my 5.1.

    Seriously, d00d. I never understood guys like you. You're *not* helping the band, and anyone else who wanted to "re-live the moment" has already recorded it on his own crappy cell phone recorder. You *do* know that everyone today has their own crappy cell phone recorder, don't you? Next time, how about just turning your phone off, putting your arm down, and enjoying the show?

  14. I had the same experience by UPi · · Score: 4, Interesting

    My own experience with youtube was the same as the OP. This was several years ago, and youtube has changed a lot since, but it looks like the more things change, the more they remain the same. I had a semi-popular channel, nothing spectacular, about 100,000 channel views and maybe a thousand subscribers. At the time it was not bad for a guy who just posted some of his own sports clips.

    The entire channel was yanked one sunny day, without any explanation as to why and no recourse or way to appeal. The automated support was entirely useless. I could not get a hold of a human, or at least, an e-mail address. There were none to be found. Youtube, as it appeared at the time, was entirely ran on automatic. It is, on one hand, understandable for a site that receives several years worth of uploaded material each minute. On the other hand, it was a thoroughly frustrating experience as I have done absolutely nothing wrong. To this day I have no clue as to what happened, my best guess is that someone reported me for the evulz, and that was enough.

    I tried again to rebuild my channel with new material. About 6 months later the same thing repeated, at which point I gave up and never registered again.

    The moral of the story is: you have to be corporate big, or you have to self-host. Otherwise, you are always at risk.

  15. Re:YouTube - mod this up! by butzwonker · · Score: 2

    IMHO, the "A" in ADSL already indicated the demise of the Real Internet (TM).

  16. Instagram are bastards too by Cruciform · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I had an Instagram account, which only consisted of my own photographs, disabled for "copyright infringement"
    There weren't even any pictures of objects on which copyright could be claimed.
    It was various animal and nature photography I had taken over the years, interspersed with photos of our puppies.

    There was no way to reach support or challenge it in any way. I just got the notification that my account was shut down and that's it.

    I wonder if they still turn around and license user content if they've deleted a user account.

    1. Re:Instagram are bastards too by leehwtsohg · · Score: 2

      There was a copyright on a gene in one of those puppies.