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The World's Largest Renewable Energy Developer Could Go Broke (huffingtonpost.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from The Huffington Post: There is a "substantial risk" that SunEdison may file for bankruptcy, the world's largest renewable energy developer said in a regulatory filing on Tuesday. The company's fall isn't a referendum on the solar industry as a whole, as much as it is on SunEdison's aggressive growth strategy fueled by excessive debt and financial engineering, analysts say. SunEdison "just thought they were smarter than everyone else," said David Levine, the founder and CEO of Geostellar, a solar energy marketplace that has done deals with the company.
SunEdison loaded up a total of $11 billion in debt to develop or acquire renewable energy projects. The company's shares have fallen steeply since they hit a high of $30 in July. They were at just $1.26 before the filing. The stock immediately dropped another 40 percent when the market opened after the filing, and the company was trading at just $0.59 by Tuesday lunchtime.

27 of 292 comments (clear)

  1. Regardless of the reasons... by fredgiblet · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...People are gonna claim it's proof that renewables don't work.

    1. Re:Regardless of the reasons... by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 5, Funny

      Curiously, this story was not posted by mdsolar.

    2. Re:Regardless of the reasons... by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yes, Solyndra and this - the evidence that the market works and bad business plans properly fail.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    3. Re:Regardless of the reasons... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      ...People are gonna claim it's proof that renewables don't work.

      As an electrical engineer that works for a company that installs solar systems, they don't work. Well, when you add the government subsidies, that we all pay for in taxes, they're only bad instead of horrible.

    4. Re:Regardless of the reasons... by EEPROMS · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This has nothing to do with solar panels, in this case the directors (like many retarded MBA's coming out of US universities) went with the 5 year insane growth model that just doesn't work with solar power production. If I was going to blame anyone it would be US universities training students to be bad business managers.

    5. Re: Regardless of the reasons... by pixelpusher220 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's really hard to compete in an unfair market. When your competition is given 10s of billions in tax breaks annually and allowed to pollute with impunity... Those gov subsidies to solar are pennies in the dollar compared to what Fossil fuel gets every single year

      --
      People in cars cause accidents....accidents in cars cause people :-D
    6. Re:Regardless of the reasons... by haruchai · · Score: 3, Informative

      Certainly not the one that supposedly built America's middle class, the automotive industry.
      Well, except for the ~500 listed at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/....

      But apart from those few, not at all.

      --
      Pain is merely failure leaving the body
    7. Re: Regardless of the reasons... by funwithBSD · · Score: 5, Informative

      You kidding?

      Tax breaks paid for 60% of my solar system. The only way it made economic sense.

      --
      Never answer an anonymous letter. - Yogi Berra
    8. Re: Regardless of the reasons... by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 4, Funny

      Do you generate enough electricity to run your power washer?

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    9. Re: Regardless of the reasons... by mspohr · · Score: 5, Informative

      Fossil fuels receive $5.3 Trillion in subsidies annually.
      Subsidies for fossil fuels amount to $1,000 a year for every citizen living in the G20 group of the world’s leading economies, despite the group’s pledge in 2009 to phase out support for coal, oil and gas.
      https://www.imf.org/external/p...

      --
      I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
    10. Re: Regardless of the reasons... by KGIII · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I have solar and wind. I do not have them as a cost saver. I have them because I like electricity. My home is in NW, Maine. I am not shitting you when I say that my mains connection is a backup. Come winter, it's not usual to go as long as a week without power. There's nothing important past me and, even though I'm not far from the fat pipes of juice that come in from Canada, I'm pretty much out of luck until every other person gets their power back.

      I was not in that specific area during the Ice Storm of 98 (January, I believe) but I've been there for two since. The longest was almost two weeks without power. During the 98 episode, they didn't have power for almost a month.

      In fact, about six miles beyond my house is a guy who has still has no power. Of course, he's never had power. The lines go by his house and he still doesn't want power. He does have dial-up internet, I do believe. He was not interested in DSL. Curious sort of guy. Bad hygiene, I guess he was doing post-doc work when his brain kind of snapped, and he's been living off the grid in a cabin that his family owns since the early 1970s. Smart as all hell. He has some solar and a generator. Mostly survives off the land. Cuts a bit of my wood and hunts my deer and fishes my fishies. I'm quite okay with it. He's been over more than once - I've owned the new house since 2008. I was in for Christmas.

      At any rate, I make more than enough electricity to push some into the grid. They only give credits for the power - not money. I can sell, trade, or gift the credits. I can donate them to a charitable organization or to a State organization (of some types) and get a reduction in tax burden. As it was just updated with extra panels and a second turbine, I'm going to wait a full year and then I'll donate the credits to the local elementary school. I like 'em. The kids call me Mr. David. As some of them are getting to be adults now, I find it rather amusing to hear the young adults call me Mr. David.

      They use a piece of land that I own, it's an old and nonworking sandpit for their keg parties and for shooting. They police their brass. They even came and borrowed my truck, trailer, and tractor once year - they went out and cleaned up all the junk that people had left there over the years. They cleaned up old fridges, cars, burnt out cars, and (oddly) a giant (ocean going) lobster boat that was sans-trailer. I have no idea how the boat got there, it was there when I bought the place and nobody has fessed up yet.

      At any rate, that's enough of a novella. ;-) I didn't buy solar to make money back. I don't care that it isn't the cheapest. That I have turbines, and really good ones, you can guess that money was not the objective. I did it because it was the right choice for me to make. I like having electricity and the wind, so far as we know, has never quite stopped where the turbines are. It's all automated, I don't need to worry about a thing. You could say I did it to be green. Sort of? Not really... I just like having electricity. It's not even remotely uncommon to lose power there.

      (I am not there. I will be there within the next month, probably.)

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    11. Re: Regardless of the reasons... by KGIII · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Wait, what?

      You've sold back $200. But, is that *after* you've used what you've needed? If so then, you're paying it off quicker than you think. If your bill was $2000/year and now you're getting $2200 worth of electricity per year (no idea what the costs are there) then you'l have paid for it in less than ten years.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    12. Re: Regardless of the reasons... by religionofpeas · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Price of solar panels has dropped by more than 60% in the last decade, and the end is not in sight. Pretty soon the system you paid with tax breaks will cost less new without tax breaks. On the other hand, price of oil, coal and gas will go up in the future.

    13. Re:Regardless of the reasons... by AmiMoJo · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Since the take-over I've had two stories posted as AC. Both times I submitted under my username. The first time my name was changed to AC and the second time the editor just deleted the author attribution altogether.

      I'm wondering if the editors sometimes remove names to prevent ad-hom attacks on the story (I should consider that next time) or if it's just the usual editing cock-up that Slashdot seems to somehow encourage.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    14. Re: Regardless of the reasons... by evilviper · · Score: 4, Informative

      They closes thing they get to a subsidy is what the government buys from them for their own use, for the reserve, and what they give out to poor people to heat.

      Last I heard (2013), oil companies were getting on the order of $5.1 billion in subsidies for exploration. https://newrepublic.com/articl...

      Categorization of oil under the tax code as a form of domestic manufacturing eligible for a 6% deduction of net income, claiming foreign royalty payments as a credit against American taxes, and deducting numerous costs associated with the drilling process is absolutely an insane handout that other energy suppliers are excluded from. http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/29/...

      By comparison, research and development for solar energy was given only $302 million; and wind energy just $123 million. http://www.reuters.com/article...

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    15. Re:Regardless of the reasons... by CaptainLard · · Score: 4, Informative

      Thats a very wide definition of "renewable energy company" (Navistar: truck manufacturer, Babcock & Brown: financial consultants, Thompson River Power: trying to liquidate their new coal plant) and "failure" (Vestas: 685M Euro income in 2015, Amonix: Just broke a record for PV energy output).

      I didn't look through all of them but I'm guessing you just copy pasted a list of DOE energy loans from some blog. Feel free to prove me wrong by doing your own research and posting an up to date summary of each of your listed company's current outlooks.

    16. Re:Regardless of the reasons... by wyHunter · · Score: 3, Informative

      But they do. My state levies a significant tax on minerals extracted and puts the money in a wealth fund. Yes, yes, they DO pay for mineral extractions.

    17. Re:Regardless of the reasons... by haruchai · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Have a look at the number of car companies that failed in America alone in the early decades of the industry.
      It's nearly TWO THOUSAND.
      The collapse of a number of greentech companies coincided with a huge economic crisis.
      You might as well argue that finance & banking is an abject failure because of the collapse of Arthur Andersen, Bear Stearns, and nearly 500 US banks.

      --
      Pain is merely failure leaving the body
    18. Re:Regardless of the reasons... by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Have a look at the number of car companies that failed in America alone in the early decades of the industry.

      Or look at the number of semiconductor companies that failed in the 1980s, or the number of "Internet" companies that failed in the 1990s. If a technology is advancing rapidly, it means it is more likely that companies based on that technology will fail. They either can't keep up with the changes, or get left behind with a business model that depends on the tech being expensive, as prices fall. After the shake-out and consolidation, there are usually only a handful of competitors left, with most of the profits going to the single company with the biggest market share (Intel in semiconductors, Microsoft in software, etc.).

    19. Re:Regardless of the reasons... by Coren22 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Does solar power or wind power pay for its externalities?

      I doubt it as China produces most panels, and they have a great environmental record...

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
  2. Well there's you're problem... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    Your source is Huffingtonpost.com

    So it can't be true.

    (Just doing what the people that hate foxnews do ALL THE TIME.)

    Effin idiots.

    This comment we be hidden in 3, 2, 1...

  3. Anything to due with expiring subsidies? by swb · · Score: 3, Informative

    You have an aggressive growth plan, capitalized by debt that makes sense when your model is backed by subsidies.

    Your debt starts to become due, but when you go to refinance it and there's some question as to whether the subsidies will continue (or its known for sure they will end), they crunch your numbers and find out that your entire business model is basically built on subsidies, and without them you are not at all profitable.

    It turn out that in order to install solar panels and make any money doing it, not only do you need a huge subsidy for every install, you need the power company to pay retail rates for reverse metering for the next 20 years, too.

    Once the subsidies go away and the power company only has to pay wholesale rates for reverse metering, well, solar power isn't really profitable at all unless the "profit" includes Excel-crashing giant models that suppose some kind of society-wide savings from improved environmental conditions and third order savings calculated on sheets 87, 88, and 89 of your model.

    1. Re:Anything to due with expiring subsidies? by Aighearach · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Nice attempt at an underpants gnome, but you left out the ... in the middle.

      At the start you acknowledge that the context is an "aggressive growth plan capitalized by debt," but then you just do some handwaving and end up at "It turn out that in order to install solar panels and make any money doing it, not only do you need a huge subsidy..." which is just a load of crap that doesn't in any way follow from this situation.

      You're just trolling with anti-PV nonsense.

      The only thing this situation proves is that if you use "financial engineering" (as opposed to traditional credit ratings and collateral) in order to get loans, and you fall slightly behind your predicted performance, then you crash and burn very quickly. It says nothing about the profitability of projects that limit themselves to the installation size they can afford based on the collateral that they actually have and normal, non-engineered, honest financials.

    2. Re:Anything to due with expiring subsidies? by CaptainLard · · Score: 5, Informative

      Nope!

      Federal subsidies were just renewed in full for 3 years so this has nothing to do with any expiration, just an overly ambitious business model. In fact, even if you removed all subsidies from residential solar installations (currently the most expensive per watt) you'd still break even before the panel warranty on production runs out in a lot of places. That price has fallen almost 30% over the past 3 years thanks partly to the last subsidy. When this renewal is done most of the country should have the option for a residential install with a break even point in under 10 years...with zero subsidy! Non-sarcastic thanks, government!

  4. Re:Talk about a coincidence! by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 3, Informative

    What "largest solar install"? Setting aside the fact that Ivanpah, which you mention, has nothing to do with photovoltaics, being the topic here, the current "largest solar install" is the Longyangxia Dam Solar Park in China.

    --
    Ezekiel 23:20
  5. Re:in other news barrel price drops to $20 by zapadnik · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The drop in the price of oil is due to:
    1) Saudi Arabia making oil so cheap so that its aggressive rival Iran is weakened 2) Saudi Arabia making oil so cheap to put North American fracking operations out of business 3) North American fracking operations supplying so much oil and gas that the US was poised to be an energy exporter.

    We do live an illusion of a Free Market (voluntary exchange producing win-win trades) because many Governments introduce all sorts of tricks to change the voluntary win-win aspect of mutual benefit to involuntary win-lose exchanges because taxpayer money is used to prop up some politically-favored company, or regulate some of the trades. The Free Market is an ideal that has not existed for a long time. The best we have today are hampered Free Markets, where the economically-illiterate control freak sociopaths that self-select into Government are constitutionally prevented from meddling too much.

  6. Advocacy group lying to you. Government made money by raymorris · · Score: 3, Informative

    That article, or summary really, is based on a report from an advocacy group which is frankly lying to you.

    The largest component that they are calling a "subsidy" is when a government owns a profitable energy company, so the government is getting paid. Their primary example is one making very healthly 14% return on investment . When the government is making a lot of money from a socialized company, that's kinda the opposite of subsidy.

    In the US, their top two "subsidies" are that oil companies use the exact same correct accounting as every other company, recording revenue and costs of that revenue in the same period. (Called Generally Accepted Accounting Principles) . Your advocacy group, Oil Change International, breaks that down into two components. First, amortization of capital investment. Suppose your business has $2 million on Monday, and no other assets, so it's worth $2 million. On Tuesday, you buy a $1 million oil rig, which is producing as expected. So now you have $1 million cash plus a $1 million oil rig. How has the total value of the business changed? It hasn't. You still have $2 million worth of stuff. Buying an asset that will last a long time isn't the same as throwing money away, so you don't deduct the $1 million cost all in one year. Fast forward 10 years. The oil rig equipment is getting old and worn out. You could sell it for $200,000. You still have the same $1 million cash, plus you have an oil rig that's now worth $200,000. You didn't make any money selling oil, so all the company has is $1 million cash and $200,000 worth of equipment. How much is the business worth now? It's worth $1.2 million, $800,000 less than before. That's amortization- recognizing that equipment gets less valuable as it gets old and worn out, so you spread the cost over the useful life of the asset.

        You WANT companies to correctly amortize the assets on their books. If they don't, they are LYING to investors, primarily people who are saving for retirement. When they don't amortize costs correctly you get Enron.

    Depletion is the same thing, but for assets that "run out" rather than "wear out". Suppose you start with $100 million. Your company has $100 million cash and nothing else, so it's worth $100 million. You spend that $100 million dollars to set up operations on an oil field which has ten years worth of oil underground. Now how much is the company worth? Still $100 million, because it owns the $100 oil field operation. Go forward five years. You've used up half the oil. How much is the oil field worth now? Half the oil is gone, so it's worth half as much. That's depletion. That's correct, standard accounting in any industry; most industries call it "inventory". There's no subsidy there, simply correctly writing down what things are actually worth, then paying taxes based on those correct numbers.