Berlin Gets First Taste of In-Store Vertical Micro-Farms (rt.com)

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Berlin Gets First Taste of In-Store Vertical Micro-Farms (rt.com)

Posted by msmash on Friday April 1, 2016 @02:40AM from the one-stone-two-birds dept.

An anonymous reader shares an article on RT: German shoppers now have the chance to buy fresh greens and herbs in supermarkets with tiny vertical farms which both grow and display the produce. The new delivery method for the freshest possible produce is being pioneered by INFARM which is currently testing its live herb gardens at METRO stores in Berlin. The people behind the project say these are the first indoor farming installations of their kind, placed directly in supermarkets. "Imagine a future where cities become self-sufficient in their food production, where autonomous farms grow fresh premium produce at affordable prices, eliminating waste and environmental impact," The farms look like a tiny greenhouse inside the store where shoppers can pick their own freshly harvested salad greens and herbs right from the growing plants. The advantages of the indoor micro-farms are lower transport costs and associated emissions. They use less water, energy and space than conventional farms and horizontal greenhouses.

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Farrrrrm livin' is the life for me! by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · 2016-04-01 02:43 · Score: 1

I heard they have a new electric tractor sitting out in the parking lot because German law requires a new green tractor for all farms.

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1. Re:Farrrrrm livin' is the life for me! by gstoddart · 2016-04-01 03:05 · Score: 3, Funny
  
  Actually, the tractor is sitting in a drawer ... it's a micro-farm, after all, so you only need a micro-tractor.
  It charges off USB, so it's pretty green since you can do that with solar.
  
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  Lost at C:>. Found at C.
2. Re:Farrrrrm livin' is the life for me! by Sir_Eptishous · 2016-04-01 03:11 · Score: 2
  
  I want to see a micro-tractor pull.
  
  --
  We play the game with the bravery of being out of range
3. Re:Farrrrrm livin' is the life for me! by gstoddart · 2016-04-01 03:27 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  LOL ... well, there's these guys. National Micro-Mini Tractor Pullers Association
  
  Micro-Mini Tractor Pulling is a 1/16 scale version of full size tractor pulling.
  A weight transfer sled is pulled by these small "toy" pullers on a 2'x16' wooden track which is
  either covered with a formica surface or sealed with a smooth surface of polyurethane. Some of
  these pulling units in the 6 lb. open modified tractor class have been known to pull in excess of 600 lbs.
  No, I didn't make that up.
  You're welcome.
  
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  Lost at C:>. Found at C.
4. Re:Farrrrrm livin' is the life for me! by cayenne8 · 2016-04-01 03:49 · Score: 1
  
  I wish there were commercially available 'vertical' farm type set ups for the home that were more affordable...most I've seen so far are in the $1K range I think....
  
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  Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
5. Re:Farrrrrm livin' is the life for me! by PolygamousRanchKid+ · 2016-04-01 04:33 · Score: 1
  
  I heard they have a new electric tractor sitting out in the parking lot.
  Unfortunately, the "new electric tractor" is made by Volkswagen and billows out clouds of diesel fumes when it is started.
  VW's motto used to be "Fahrvergnügen" . . . now it is "Fehlerbehebungsmaßnahmen" . . .
  
  --
  Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
6. Re:Farrrrrm livin' is the life for me! by RabidReindeer · 2016-04-01 05:20 · Score: 2
  
  It depends on how much farming you plan on doing. The Aerogarden line has some relatively inexpensive stuff, as long as you don't plan on growing too much, too big, or too many.
  I noticed the local hardware store has been stocking up on grow-light assemblies and similar stuff lately.
7. Re:Farrrrrm livin' is the life for me! by RabidReindeer · 2016-04-01 05:20 · Score: 1
  
  How can you have a "micro-garden" in a country where they can have words like that?
8. Re:Farrrrrm livin' is the life for me! by Salgak1 · 2016-04-01 05:47 · Score: 1
  
  I seem to recall something about a home-brew semi-vertical garden design. "MyGrowPonics" or something similar. Basically a wallmount of long plastic flowerpots, rockwool growth matrix, and a small fish-pond pump, pumping fertilizer/water mix up to the top level, and letting it drain through the stack at alternate ends, until it ended up in the bottom reservoir with the pump. . . Site is apparently long gone, it's a Chinese site now. But basically, vertical hydroponics on a home budget...
9. Re:Farrrrrm livin' is the life for me! by KGIII · 2016-04-01 09:02 · Score: 1
  
  > open modified
  Wait, what?
  They have a stock, unmodified class? 'Cause that sounds too awesome to click the link.
  See, if I click the link I might find out that I'm not as pleased by the results as I want to be. In my head, this is awesome. I'm afraid that reality won't match the awesomeness that is in my head. Sadly, that's often the case - more so where people are involved.
  Also, I read the headline as "Velcro" farming. That too was incredibly awesome in my head. Like I said, life seldom turns out as awesome as the picture in my head.
  
  --
  "So long and thanks for all the fish."
10. Re:Farrrrrm livin' is the life for me! by KGIII · 2016-04-01 09:58 · Score: 1
  
  That's the strangest spot, in the entire thread, that you could possibly pick to thread that comment. I had to double check (I'd scrolled down so they weren't visible) and, sure enough, you threaded your (probably) insightful, witty, and topical reply beneath a meaningless troll post that hadn't a damned thing to do with anything.
  I have a confuse.
  
  --
  "So long and thanks for all the fish."
11. Re:Farrrrrm livin' is the life for me! by KGIII · 2016-04-01 10:27 · Score: 1
  
  I've seen some of the hardware for this before. It really doesn't look like it'd be all that difficult to make it yourself. There are a variety of ways to do it and, worst case scenario, you can even 3D print (yeah, I said it) some of the plastic bits if you didn't feel like using PVC and the chemicals that go along with holding them together - though I'm also sure you could use the PEX and get away with it just fine.
  It doesn't even seem like it'd be tough to make it so that it looked good. You can even automate it - you just get a nice quiet stepping motor and let it rotate the stuff while relying on that magical thing called gravity to keep things oriented in the right direction. Hell, you can buy and assemble multiple lengths of bicycle chain and do it with that - and actually do the math with the stepper and have things right organized for you.
  The weed growers have done a whole lot to improve the market for indoor growth supplies. While this certainly isn't quite the same thing, it doesn't mean that the products can't be used with some adjustment.
  Hmm... Maybe someone needs to do a DIY and put some plans online so that folks can follow them? I could be missing something but it really doesn't look like it'd be difficult to make your own (and probably save money) and actually have it come out looking half-way decent. Well, as decent as you can expect with something where you're growing your food inside the house. It probably wouldn't even take up much space and lighting is getting more efficient all the time - as well as more effective (the two words being virtually synonymous for this purpose).
  So, why not try making one yourself and saving the money? You can get a whole lot of stuff down at your local pot-growing shop or farmer's union/hardware store. I imagine that, without much effort, you could assemble the bits and pieces (or fabricate the needed pieces) over a beer-fueled weekend and not harm yourself or anyone else. Then, keep a good list and source the products at wholesale, package it up with directions, and sell it - as well as give the directions away online for people to improve on.
  There you go. There's your ten-million dollar idea and a business you can start for only a few bucks as you can even kickstart it to get to the point where you start the whole thing off with economies of scale and wholesale buying power/pricing with retail (plus labor) income. It'll take you a couple of weeks (at best) worth of days to get it engineered to the point where it's sturdy. Shit, you can even build a frame out of PVC piping - with brackets that'd almost certainly be strong enough but you have to make sure you do short runs and you might want to brace and anchor it - i won't know unless I crunch some numbers. Either way, it'd work or you can simply use aluminum pipe which is dirt cheap and easy to assemble.
  It'd take some effort but not a lot. It'll make money (as you'd do the math and figure out what the prices should look like before kickstarting it). It won't take a whole lot of work and it probably won't make you a billionaire overnight but it'll be a slow-steady income that you can package up the parts and directions at night or on the weekends so you keep your regular job while you start your new one. Just incorporate, go with a LLC of one type or another, and keep your expenses documented and pay the appropriate taxes and you'll be legal as all hell. Pay yourself a payment out of the corporate funds and don't consider the business' money your own money until after you've earned it - so you can keep it going.
  Oh, don't even try to patent it or anything. No matter what you do (it'd be cheap and easy to make) it'll get banged out in China within 12 to 18 months and on the floor at Home Depot by the end of that 18 months. So, don't waste your time or money with patents. Just get in, get out, save the money to invest in the next project that comes along. If you can keep it going for a couple of years that's awesome. If it stays viable for five that's amazing. Don't worr
  
  --
  "So long and thanks for all the fish."
12. Re:Farrrrrm livin' is the life for me! by gstoddart · 2016-04-04 03:40 · Score: 1
  
  You know you wanna:
  
  They have a stock, unmodified class? 'Cause that sounds too awesome to click the link.
  Well, here's the abridged version:
  
  BELOW ARE SOME VEHICLE SPECIFICATIONS
  OF CURRENT NMMTPA CLASSES
  PRO STOCK TRACTOR: Originates from 1/16 scale 2 wheel drive tractor
  WEIGHT CLASSES: 3lb. & 5lb.
  TWO WHEEL DRIVE: Replicates 2 wheel drive road vehicle
  MAX. WEIGHT: 4lbs.
  SUPER STOCK TRACTOR: Originates from 1/16 scale 2 wheel drive tractor
  MAX. WEIGHT: 5lbs.
  FOUR WHEEL DRIVE: Replicates 4 wheel drive road vehicle
  MAX.WEIGHT: 6lbs.
  OPEN MODIFIED "HOT ROD" TRACTOR
  MAX. WEIGHT: 6lbs.
  SEMI "BIG RIG"
  MAX. WEIGHT: 7lbs.
  I'm not affiliated, never even seen it, I literally found that site from googling after the poster I replied to said "I want to see a micro-tractor pull." Google for "micro-tractor pull" and that site is literally the first non-youtube link.
  I believe they could well be almost as awesome as you want them to be. Because the limit tire sizes, wheel base, engine size ... so, yeah, they have a version of a "stock, unmodified".
  Unless the site is en elaborate hoax (which is a really strange thing to hoax about), the awesome you hope for may be real.
  
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  Lost at C:>. Found at C.
13. Re:Farrrrrm livin' is the life for me! by KGIII · 2016-04-04 10:28 · Score: 1
  
  I opened it in a background tab. I'll look at it later. I'm gonna remember who sent me there... So, it'd better not be too awesome and I end up with yet another hobby with too much spent on it and never finished projects scattered across both State and country borders. :/ *sighs* I need to finish my robot before I go back to Maine.
  
  --
  "So long and thanks for all the fish."
scale? by pr0nbot · 2016-04-01 02:47 · Score: 1

I'm interested, but if we've got to the point where it's more efficient to grow something in a tiny urban space rather than reap the efficiencies of scale out in the vast acres of agriculture, hasn't something gone badly wrong? Where are the costs we're saving: in transport? refrigeration? waste?
(No of course I haven't RTFA! I was too busy posting my ill-informed musings.)
1. Re: scale? by slazzy · 2016-04-01 02:52 · Score: 1
  
  April phools!
  
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  Website Just Down For Me? Find out
2. Re:scale? by JoeMerchant · 2016-04-01 03:09 · Score: 2
  
  We've got a local (Florida) company that grows salad greens in portable containers that are shipped living to the restaurant - so the greens aren't harvested until the salad is prepared. The "better" restaurants keep the greens in plant-friendly sunlit / well watered locations, others just put them on display by the hostess podium and sell them so fast it doesn't matter that they're slowly dying in the air-conditioning/dim artificial light.
3. Re:scale? by ShanghaiBill · 2016-04-01 03:14 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  This is more about hipsterism than efficiency. And even for the hipsters, urban farming is only about fresh herbs and salad greens, which are difficult to transport and store. There is no way that urban farming is going to work for staples like wheat or oil seeds, so the notion that cities will be self-sufficient in food is silly.
4. Re:scale? by gstoddart · 2016-04-01 03:45 · Score: 1
  
  This is more about hipsterism than efficiency. And even for the hipsters, urban farming is only about fresh herbs and salad greens, which are difficult to transport and store.
  Wait, what? It would be a hipster thing to want to have fresh herbs and salads which are difficult to transport and store so they don't have to come from half way around the world? Maybe even have them in winter in places which can't normally have them and have to import them? Or in remote places where you simply can't get it pretty much ever because of the shipping costs?
  Damn those hipsters and their food independence and sustainability! We should all depend on countries thousands of miles away for our produce!! Why just think of the damage to corporate profits and executive bonuses if people could grow their own food where they live.
  The nerve of people wanting fresh, local produce which hasn't been shipped halfway around the world and is still fresh, tasty, and nutritious! Oh, and don't forget free from whatever 3rd world pesticides were used and the e-coli contamination happened in the processing plants.
  Nope, no benefit whatsoever in any of that.
  
  here is no way that urban farming is going to work for staples like wheat or oil seeds, so the notion that cities will be self-sufficient in food is silly.
  So, what, it replaces all of farming or it's useless? Wow, we should all just give up and go home.
  Obviously fully self sufficient is unlikely. But more self sufficient isn't a bad idea. I bet if you lived in places where all food needs to get brought in and the climate doesn't all you to have fresh produce some salad greens in the dead of winter would be awesome.
  There's tons of places where getting fresh greens is a luxury. Growing them nearby can change that somewhat.
  
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5. Re:scale? by pr0nbot · 2016-04-01 03:48 · Score: 1
  
  (Parent's comment about self-sufficiency relates to a claim made in the Slashdot summary.)
6. Re:scale? by gstoddart · 2016-04-01 03:51 · Score: 1
  
  others just put them on display by the hostess podium and sell them so fast it doesn't matter that they're slowly dying in the air-conditioning/dim artificial light.
  Well, I guess relative to how much it did the same thing in a box inside a dark, refrigerated shipping-container travelling half way around the world is an important consideration.
  "Slowly dying" when it was harvested yesterday instead of, oh, a few weeks ago is a hell of an improvement.
  Oh, that and e coli and listeria and other nasty crap is far less likely to creep in along the way due to industrial processing.
  
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7. Re:scale? by JoeMerchant · 2016-04-01 04:02 · Score: 1
  
  others just put them on display by the hostess podium and sell them so fast it doesn't matter that they're slowly dying in the air-conditioning/dim artificial light.
  Well, I guess relative to how much it did the same thing in a box inside a dark, refrigerated shipping-container travelling half way around the world is an important consideration.
  "Slowly dying" when it was harvested yesterday instead of, oh, a few weeks ago is a hell of an improvement.
  Oh, that and e coli and listeria and other nasty crap is far less likely to creep in along the way due to industrial processing.
  Yep, they're quite tasty too.
8. Re:scale? by gstoddart · 2016-04-01 04:02 · Score: 1
  
  Sure, but TFS says this:
  
  Imagine a future where cities become self-sufficient in their food production
  It didn't say "this will make cities self-sufficient".
  And any degree to which you can grow locally instead of importing adds a degree of "self-sufficieny" and is stuff you don't need to import, and which doesn't need to travel thousands of miles.
  I'm assuming TFA is an April Fool's joke ... but the idea isn't so crazy.
  Hell, at one point this year cauliflower was something like $11 each. For ONE damned cauliflower. Because it all came from the same place or something like that. Shielding yourself from huge fluctuations in the price of produce which needs to be imported from around the world is definitely a step forward.
  If the German's can build this awesome transparent factory for cars, I can imagine the "lettuce tower" and the "herb district" if the technology was right and it was cost effective.
  Dammit, Germany ... get on with that, will you? We totally need that.
  
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9. Re:scale? by thinkwaitfast · 2016-04-01 04:28 · Score: 1
  
  The average diet is 2,000kcals/day. The average herb salad sans dressing is 10kcals. You'd need to eat 200 salads every day just to stay alive over the period of a few months.
10. Re:scale? by thinkwaitfast · 2016-04-01 04:48 · Score: 1
  
  I grow both lettuce and cauliflower in my garden. Given the relative effort needed for both (harvesting a salad worth of leaves every three days vs waiting three months for a single cauliflower), you'd be paying $20 each for each head. In general, there's absolutely no way for a small garden (under a few aces) to be able to compete with a lager one. There is significant fixed cost ($100's of dollars) work to grow a single plant (soil preparation, watering, fertilization, cultivation, de-weeding and harvesting). It takes 10 seconds to plant a second seed and double the amount of the harvest.
  Note: farmers get about 5,000heads of cauliflower/acre at about $1/head
11. Re:scale? by gstoddart · 2016-04-01 04:59 · Score: 2
  
  All valid points.
  BUT, the kind of thing this article is talking about is indoor growing, not out in the wild, and with a significant amount of automation ... you know like this.
  
  The statistics for this incredibly successful indoor farming endeavor in Japan are staggering: 25,000 square feet producing 10,000 heads of lettuce per day (100 times more per square foot than traditional methods) with 40% less power, 80% less food waste and 99% less water usage than outdoor fields.
  
  So, really ... are you so sure about what you said? Because it sounds like the technology to start doing this on a sizable scale already exists.
  
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12. Re:scale? by gstoddart · 2016-04-01 05:20 · Score: 1
  
  Who the hell said anything about solely surviving on salads? I'm a vegetarian, but I'm not a fucking cow.
  Green leafy things have lots of other nutritional stuff as well. Which means while they may not provide all of your calories, they might provide some valuable nutrients. Oh, and they're tasty. Which is why you'd also grow herb.
  Now, imagine, you're a researcher in the arse end of the world ... oh, I don't know, Antarctica maybe. How happy would you be to have a salad once or twice a week instead of whatever can O stuff you have left?
  I bet if you stood up in the cafeteria in the period of time when they can't get new supplies, and all the fresh stuff is gone, and offered to sell a fresh head of lettuce you'd have no problems. In fact, I bet you'd have a bidding war or a riot on your hands. Now imagine everybody can have a little lettuce.
  There are a LOT of places which are hard to get to, have a lot of cold and dark, and where fresh produce is either non-existent or incredibly expensive. In those places, the ability to grow these things indoors and have them more during the year would be a hell of an improvement -- both mentally and nutritionally.
  Hell, a little fresh basil and a side salad could probably make chipped beef on toast better if that's what was left in the provisions. Certainly compared to NOT having a little fresh basil and a side salad.
  Stop thinking in terms of getting all of your calories from lettuce, and think in terms of getting fresh local produce which is out of season, especially in places where you'd almost never see it.
  ANY degree of putting some food production local is a good thing, if for nothing else than you can have fresh, quality stuff which hasn't had to travel halfway around the world.
  
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13. Re:scale? by gstoddart · 2016-04-01 05:31 · Score: 1
  
  Why would this be an April Fool's joke?
  Because this is Slashdot, and it's April 1st, and I've learned that makes for a combination requiring some distrust.
  I know these kinds of things exist, and people are building them. I have no idea if this specific story is fake or not.
  
  Giant floors in huge megaliths dedicated to food production sounds reasonable.
  I'm not disputing that, I actually agree this is cool technology which needs to exist, and I know people are working on it.
  Whether or not, today, in Berlin there's little tiny huts in grocery stores growing fresh herbs? I hope it's true.
  
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  Lost at C:>. Found at C.
14. Re:scale? by RabidReindeer · 2016-04-01 05:39 · Score: 1
  
  In many cases, bulk-farmed items are cheaper.
  On the other hand, I just about fall on the floor laughing whenever I pass the citrus fruit displays at the local supermarket. They're charging 50 cents a fruit for stuff that I'm begging neighbors to take surplus off me and the stuff I grow isn't small and nasty like theirs is. All for about $20 in fertilizer every few months.
  Or the pineapples. On sale, they're still $2.50 or more, off sale closer to $ and the ones in my garden are as big and tasty as the ones imported from Costa Rica. No funny chemicals. Just toss the top of the last one you ate on the ground and hurl some spare citrus fertilizer at it every couple of weeks.
  I learned last year why black-eyed peas are such a Southern stereotype. Although they take more space than some of the other crops, they grow like weeds. Ditto for peanuts, but the raccoons steal them. I think I know how Davy Crockett got his hat.
  The stuff that I get from the store is stuff that has a short harvest period and short storage life or simply cannot be grown around here because of climate or acreage requirements.
  I'm not expecting to become totally self-sufficent, but it is a thrill to get "free" food. Besides, the more land I grow plants on, the less I have to mow!
15. Re:scale? by Rei · 2016-04-01 05:47 · Score: 1
  
  Man does not require any specific caloric source, but he absolutely does requires calories. Ever checked out the caloric content of lettuce?
  The reason things like lettuce are amenable to in-store growing is precisely because they have so few calories - they don't take as much energy to grow.
  
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  If I ever become wealthy and mad, I'll leave Companion Cubes on desert islands for shipwreck survivors.
16. Re:scale? by thinkwaitfast · 2016-04-01 06:05 · Score: 1
  
  I totally agree and share your problem of trying to give away free citrus. I used to have two orange trees and got hundreds of gallons every year, ie, multiple 50 gallon garbage cans full of oranges. We got just as many lemons off of the single lemon tree. Also included were a tangelo , a tangerine, 3 peach, 2 apricot, a fig and pomegranate. We'd donate or throw away hundreds of pounds a year all on about a third of an acre, ut this was in AZ full sun an a lot of water. You're never going to economically get that much light in downtown of a city. Plants are only abut 4% efficient converting light to sugars (carbohydrates) which works out to ~60kwh/day for a 2,000kcal diet.
17. Re:scale? by thinkwaitfast · 2016-04-01 06:09 · Score: 1
  
  The point is being able to survive (or not) off of vertical farming. I'm sure you can synthesize vitamins in a lab too much more economically but the metric used in the anthropology books I've read have always been kcals/acre in terms of supporting a population.
18. Re:scale? by thinkwaitfast · 2016-04-01 07:27 · Score: 1
  
  It's all about calories/m^2 or calories/watt. If yo want to farm spirolina or chlorella, your level of automation and efficiencies will be much higher. I can easily see a machine a few times the size of a refrigerator able to produce enough food for a single person on 25cents of electricity/day.
19. Re:scale? by Rei · 2016-04-02 01:07 · Score: 1
  
  What on Earth are you talking about?
  1) I never claimed anything to the contrary.
  2) It was the GP talking about eating diets with a "tremendous amount of salad", not me.
  3) I'm a vegetarian.
  4) Not only am I a vegetarian, but I'm a vegatarian whose pet peeve is people who think that vegetarian diets are predominantly salad.
  
  --
  If I ever become wealthy and mad, I'll leave Companion Cubes on desert islands for shipwreck survivors.
Autonomous by Sir_Eptishous · 2016-04-01 03:00 · Score: 1

There's that word again.
It's popping up in all sorts of places.
Autonomous Cars
Autonomous Medicine
Autonomous Weapons
Autonomous Factories
etc

It really is going to be interesting to see how in the not too distant future, one of our primary roles will be to try to maintain control over a growing list of autonomous technologies that allow our civilization to function.

--
We play the game with the bravery of being out of range
1. Re:Autonomous by The-Ixian · 2016-04-01 03:52 · Score: 1
  
  "Autonomous" is the new "smart"
  
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  My eyes reflect the stars and a smile lights up my face.
2. Re:Autonomous by PolygamousRanchKid+ · 2016-04-01 04:19 · Score: 1
  
  Autonomous Cars
  Autonomous Medicine
  Autonomous Weapons
  Autonomous Factories
  . . . Autonomous Posts . . . ?
  
  --
  Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
Re:stupid berlin hipsters by prefec2 · 2016-04-01 03:06 · Score: 1

Hey relax, I am absolute sure they mess up. It is METRO after all. Usually, the vegetables they sell are substandard like with all other conventional supermarkets in Germany (an NDR investigation showed fungi in many vegetables and fruits). The best thing to do (even in Berlin) go to markets where they sell food direct from farms aka farmer markets. In season vegetables are usually cheaper there than at Metro, REWE etc.
Re:Stupidity abound by prefec2 · 2016-04-01 03:10 · Score: 1

Yes this goes against the core idea of cities. Put people together very closely to save space and resources which is then available for farming. The only positive use case of urban gardening is to improve the micro climate in cities. That is why we have parks in cities, roof gardens, and hopefully not too many houses taller than 6-8 stories. In such layouts trees in the backyard and along the roads can regulate the climate in cities.
Vertical farms by rossdee · 2016-04-01 03:14 · Score: 5, Funny

cows are going to have a hard time
1. Re:Vertical farms by Tablizer · 2016-04-01 03:17 · Score: 1
  
  cows are going to have a hard time
  They'll have to de-criminalize cow-tipping
  
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  Table-ized A.I.
2. Re:Vertical farms by Tablizer · 2016-04-01 04:22 · Score: 1
  
  That makes for a 27 degree angle, by my calcs.
  
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  Table-ized A.I.
Re:stupid berlin hipsters by 110010001000 · 2016-04-01 03:17 · Score: 1

As a German you should apologize for a lot of things!
Re:stupid berlin hipsters by KermodeBear · 2016-04-01 03:20 · Score: 1

But does it have to be lit using artificial light?
The concept is not bad. There are some things that could be improved along the way (during the day, solar tubes could provide proper light). Worth investigating.

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Love sees no species.
Re:stupid berlin hipsters by Nidi62 · 2016-04-01 03:20 · Score: 1

What about the fuel needed for farming equipment? The electricity needed to run the processing facility? And again, the fuel needed to both power the delivery truck and run the refridgeration unit. Personally, I would love this here in America as my options for herbs are to buy dried herbs in a jar, grow my own plants, or buy fresh ones in bunches much larger than I need for here and there cooking that requires/warrants fresh herbs, meaning most of them end up going bad. Give me the option and I would gladly just buy a few sprigs off a fresh plant, even if i can get a bunch cheaper (per weight, but overall more expensive still).

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The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
That seems like it could be interesting by H3lldr0p · 2016-04-01 03:26 · Score: 1

But I do wonder where our obsession with "freshness" comes from. Is it because we're so divorced from the places where our food comes from?
To be honest, I'm happy not seeing the entire process of growth through harvest. I have other things I'd rather do with my time than tend to crops and livestock. And when it comes to processing, I have a preference that livestock be treated well in their life since it's fueling mine...but I have absolutely no desire to be part of the slaughtering process. None. Again, I'd rather pay someone else to do that for me.
1. Re:That seems like it could be interesting by swb · 2016-04-01 04:16 · Score: 1
  
  But I do wonder where our obsession with "freshness" comes from. Is it because we're so divorced from the places where our food comes from?
  Yes.
  Actual fresh-from-the-garden produce is so much better than what's in the store.
  I think some of this high-tech vertical "farming" is quite interesting and it does make you wonder if the benefits of not having to ship stuff half-way around the world is worth the local infrastructure investment.
  It may not work for bulk crops that are large (corn, wheat, etc) but these seem to have an inherent advantage in that they usually have a lot of processing involved to be turned into food products, so maybe they should continue to be done on scale.
  But a lot of other fruits and vegetables seem to be scaled right for high tech vertical agriculture,
2. Re:That seems like it could be interesting by RabidReindeer · 2016-04-01 05:49 · Score: 1
  
  On a broadcast of America's Test Kitchen a while back, the host talked about his childhood where they literally raced in from the fields with fresh-picked corn (or maybe it was peas). Because the minute that the produce was picked, the sugars in it began converting to starches, so for full sweetness, you wanted it prepared ASAP.
  He did mention that more modern strains are less susceptible to that sort of thing, but there's still a virtue in freshness for many items.
3. Re:That seems like it could be interesting by Agent0013 · 2016-04-01 07:02 · Score: 1
  
  Yep, that would be corn. I heard that you want to get the water boiling before you even pick it. But like you said, the modern varieties stay sweeter longer.
  
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  -- ssoorrrryy,, dduupplleexx sswwiittcchh oonn.. -Quote found on actual fortune cookie.
4. Re:That seems like it could be interesting by ffkom · 2016-04-01 11:30 · Score: 1
  
  Your question is leaping two steps ahead, you should ask "Have you ever eaten a carrot?", then "Have you ever eaten an unprocessed carrot?". Neither can be taken for granted anymore. Many of the younger generation have never witnessed the process called "cooking" which was so common amongst our ancestors, but were raised on food coming from factories. And even amongst those who personally witnessed the preparation of a meal one time or the other, many will only have seen a very last step of mixing/heating pre-processed ingredients, which didn't reveal much about where/how they grow.
  Having seen food grow from its very beginning and then preparing a meal from has already become a rare hobby of a very few, and along with that, the ability to differentiate ingredients and their quality from taste/smell is now a rare art.
  Next up: Soilent Green for everyone...
Re:Stupidity abound by Billy+the+Mountain · 2016-04-01 03:29 · Score: 1

That's right, it will never work!

For example, the population of Houston, TX (Harris County is 4.337 million people.
The area of Harris County is 1,777 square miles or 4.60e+09 square meters.
The solar insolence of Houston is 5 kWh/m/day.
So that yields 2.30e+10 kWh/day.
Divide that by the population and that's 5.306 Megawatt hours per person per day.
Who's going to be satisfied with only 5.306 MWh?

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That was the turning point of my life--I went from negative zero to positive zero.
not a new idea by dingleberrie · 2016-04-01 03:43 · Score: 1

So what. Home Depot has those occasionally during the year. You have to buy the whole pot though.
Ah! by no-body · 2016-04-01 03:53 · Score: 1

How are they fed? Probably non-organic liquid mineral fertilizer...
All nice and sterile, no earth worms, other critters visiting - anyone wants to be a plant THERE?
Skyscraper vertical farms in the future? by Fencepost · 2016-04-01 04:25 · Score: 2

I wouldn't be surprised to see many variations of vertical hydroponic farms on south-facing windows of buildings in the future, whether on a per-unit basis or in some cases in a vertical atrium-style space. On a small scale leafy greens, carrots and related crops would be the only ones that make sense due to pollination concerns, but I could also see larger setups being feasible with south-facing atriums full of hydroponic crops with some level of access for bees.

In some ways this complements the trend of rooftop gardens/lawns in urban areas.

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fencepost
just a little off
not sure if this is an AFJ by ihtoit · 2016-04-01 04:27 · Score: 1

...since verticulture is actually a thing. I grow herbs in a home built vertical planter. I grow potatoes in a denim sculpture comprising a pair of jeans filled with compost (it actually stands up on its own).

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Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
Re:RT by ihtoit · 2016-04-01 04:27 · Score: 1

name one.

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Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
Re:stupid berlin hipsters by thinkwaitfast · 2016-04-01 04:58 · Score: 1

What about the fuel needed for farming equipment?

The cost of fuel as a percentage of deliverable product is insignificant and you don't have the efficiencies of mechanization.
http://freakonomics.com/2011/1...
Re:stupid berlin hipsters by RabidReindeer · 2016-04-01 05:41 · Score: 1

Until I saw the photo, I took it for granted they'd be piping in natural light.
Failing that, what about the great German Solar Farm experiment?
Re:stupid berlin hipsters by Rei · 2016-04-01 06:08 · Score: 1

As a german I apologize
Living up to the stereotype, I see ;)

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If I ever become wealthy and mad, I'll leave Companion Cubes on desert islands for shipwreck survivors.
Growing local not always a good idea by lhowaf · 2016-04-01 07:29 · Score: 1

In Flint, MI this idea would go over like a lead balloon.
At least the veggies will be really fresh by Applehu+Akbar · 2016-04-01 07:48 · Score: 1

Because I totally want my Romaine and arugula to be grown under fluorescent store lights.
Re:RT by ihtoit · 2016-04-01 08:43 · Score: 1

oh, snap!

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Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
Fresh, as still growing by edis · 2016-04-01 10:11 · Score: 1

This approach does solve need of delicate storage, if greens were harvested for sale instead. As they are still connected to the infrastructure of their growth, it makes them not only freshest possible when buying, but also incomparably better enduring, than any other storage option.

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Servant of karma
Why does /. reference Russian propaganda on this? by ffkom · 2016-04-01 11:09 · Score: 1

First, this is kind of old news, here is an official press release from the METRO corporation from February on it.
But why does the ./ article amongst all possible sources reference a Russion government financed propaganda channel on this? That's like referencing the US-propaganda channel "RIAS Berlin" when talking about supermarkets in Moscow...
Re:RT by ffkom · 2016-04-01 11:38 · Score: 1

Just use the official press release from METRO, which was published already in February. (Yes, that's corporate propaganda, but at least their agenda to make profits is obvious, and they don't send armed people "on holiday" to fight in the Ukraine.)
This is not about "scale" or "efficiency". by ffkom · 2016-04-01 11:51 · Score: 1

It is about a high-end taste/smell/quality food product. Germany is not a third-world country full of starving poor people. Actually, the whole EU has opted to not maximize efficiency when growing food, but mandates some efficiency-lowering rules (like on the population density of animal farms or limits on HFCS production) that favor moderation of health risks or promote quality.
I know it's a concept hard to comprehend for many who've been raised in an extremely capitalist environment, but a significant part of EU citizens actually strive for goals in their lifes other than passing away with a maximum amount of money in their bank account... so efficiency is not everything.