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FBI Tells Local Law Enforcement It Will Help Unlock Phones (buzzfeed.com)

Salvador Hernandez, reporting for BuzzFeed: Just days after breaking into a terrorist's iPhone using a mysterious third-party technique, FBI officials on Friday told local law enforcement agencies it will assist them with unlocking phones and other electronic devices. The advisory, obtained by BuzzFeed News, was sent in response to law enforcement inquiries about its new method of unlocking devices. Though the dispatch does not explicitly state if the FBI will use the mysterious third-party method to unlock phones for local authorities, officials said the agency "will of course consider any tool that might be helpful to our partners."

23 of 255 comments (clear)

  1. Doesn't matter by louden+obscure · · Score: 2

    The purpose of a lock is only to keep honest people honest.

    --
    Serenity now, insanity later.
    1. Re:Doesn't matter by Opportunist · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The purpose of a lock is to keep my stuff mine. Yes, even and especially against governments.

      Do I have something to hide? None of your business.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:Doesn't matter by Opportunist · · Score: 2

      Yes, but it's not my duty to make it easy for you to break down my door. You could have knocked and I would have opened. And with a search warrant, I even would have let you in.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    3. Re:Doesn't matter by Geoffrey.landis · · Score: 4, Insightful

      One of the two will happen because one of the two need to happen to continue to function in a lawful society.

      No. False choice. The other option is that police departments must use other methods to prove crimes.

      --
      http://www.geoffreylandis.com
    4. Re:Doesn't matter by TheReaperD · · Score: 2

      Umm... Not quite. You can put all the steel doors, armored windows and redundant locking systems you want on your house. You can even live full time in a vault if your that paranoid. This is the same as putting strong encryption on your phone. Both are perfectly legal and should remain so. Where your home security slips into illegal territory is when you convert it into a weapon with things like spring-loaded traps with a shotgun, poison gas or any other equipment to maim and kill. This would be the same as equipping your phone with a taser or other such device to release electrical charges when you fail to unlock the phone; which is also illegal. So your statement doesn't hold up as the legality of the defences of your house and phone are fairly equivalent.

      --
      "Be particularly skeptical when presented with evidence confirming what you already believe." -
    5. Re:Doesn't matter by KGIII · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Or we can accept the loss and not set the precedent that the government always wins by use of force. Yes, sometimes it's essential that bad things happen to otherwise good people. In fact, the only way to prevent that from happening is to disallow all freedoms or, alternatively, disallow all humans.

      I really tire of this trend toward cowardice and pipe dreams. You will not have a lawful society, ever. That doesn't mean don't outlaw anything. That means establish punishments and impose reasonable restrictions on the government - and on the people. If we can make a lock that the government can't get into, then fuck 'em. Yes, shit's gonna happen. Sorry but that's the price you pay to live in a free society.

      By the way, this is the same reason it's true for firearms, driving, owning a sharp steak knife, being allowed to speak, being able to eat steak, go skydiving, swim, run, jump, skip rope, being allowed to worship, etc...

      And some of those aren't even RIGHTS - they're privileges. Privacy, by means of the 4th *and* 5th is pretty much an important fucking concept. There's shit the government can not do. That MEANS bad shit is going to happen. Deal with it. Stop trying to take away my liberties because you're scared. Your fear is not a good reason to take away my liberties - even if I don't USE those liberties. I want them ALL. In fact, I want as many as I can get while still retaining a cohesive, tolerant, and functional society.

      That means accepting that shit happens sometimes and doing what you can to clean up afterwards - as well as taking reasonable precautions. Giving the government carte blanc to open anything they damned well please, when they've already demonstrated they can't be trusted - especially with the fucking search warrants, is certainly not on the list of reasonable precautions. Hell no...

      Why are you so eager to give up my liberties? They're YOUR liberties too, you know. They're not just mine. Hell, I'll be fine - thanks. I'm more worried about your liberties than you are. Sadly, that's not a joke. That's not funny at all. Me? I can get hell out of the country and be fine all over the globe if I absolutely had to. I have liquid assets stored in non-digital format as well as liquid assets in cash format - stored in a variety of places. Trust me, I'll be fine.

      You, on the other hand, are stuck here. So aren't a whole lot of other people. They just might like to make use of some of those liberties you're happily giving away because you're a fucking coward.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    6. Re:Doesn't matter by KGIII · · Score: 2

      > Sorry, but your paranoia is unjustified.

      Bullshit and you know it. Show me one time when the government has been unrestricted in its action and things have turned out well for the society or the government. If we can build a lock they can't get into then they can pound sand. That's what's great about liberty - you don't even have to personally use it in order to appreciate it. For example, my phone is not encrypted.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    7. Re:Doesn't matter by KGIII · · Score: 2

      What the hell are you trying to say now?

      I don't know, maybe you speak a different language than I do. However, when you prohibit the construction of a device that is impossible for government interception (even lawfully) that's unrestricted in my book.

      At this point, I lack both time and energy to educate you on your rights and why they're important. Answer my question and then we'll continue.

      Show me one time when the government has been unrestricted in its action and things have turned out well for the society or the government.

      When the government outlaws the ability to create something they can't access that's pretty fucking unrestricted to me. And don't give me the, "Oh but they're still not allowed to murder us like dogs in the street" type of shit either. I've no patients to willful and abject stupidity today but, I tell you what, if you seriously don't see what's wrong with your statement then respond to my quoted text. Show me one... Just one... Show me one government that's disallowed that isn't a tyranny.

      Hint: You can't. They don't exist. They've never existed. They're never going to exist.

      You can have liberty or you can have a fake sense of security that does nothing but encroach on our collective liberties or strip them entirely. I can't believe I'm having to explain this to a grown adult. I seriously can't understand this. Are you fucking broken? Seriously, are you? I'll try to help you out but my patience is really thin right now - I've read your other comments.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    8. Re:Doesn't matter by WorBlux · · Score: 2

      How the fuck is code supposed to distinguish between a valid court warrant, and the corrupt IT guy who sold the government's backdoor key to a North Korean intelligence agent? The Code doesn't care and can only follow instructions. The jurisdiction of U.S law is not global and any exception carved out for the US will be given at the very least to all of the EU nations and the G13, which includes Russia and China, potential economic and military adversaries of the U.S in the future.

      Additionally Apple is irrelevant as a company. There is open source and manufacturing capacity out there that people can maintain a non-backdoored phone in one-off groups buys from fly-by night operators.

      Strong encryption is a vital aspect of any free culture in a digital era. The benefits are such that I willing to accept them even if it means on rare occasions very bad people get away with bad things or it more costly to investigate and convict such activities. There is no technological protection that can stop the back-doors of the "good guys" today from becoming the back-doors of the "bad guys" tomorrow. There is also no mechanism compatible with a free society that could actually stop a determined group of people from developing software and building devices that actually implemented strong encryption without the backdoor.

    9. Re: Doesn't matter by Maritz · · Score: 2

      Great analogy. Don't treat the symptoms, treat the disease. Of course in medicine they tend to do both, but that doesn't really support your argument so let's downplay that aspect shall we...?

      --
      I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
  2. Re:Why? by Idimmu+Xul · · Score: 2

    why do you think the fbi helping the police unlock iphones is a good thing?

    --
    The problem with slashdot is that most of its users were bullied and stuffed into lockers as kids!
  3. FBI will lose this propaganda war with Apple by JoeyRox · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I have no doubt that the FBI's public proclamation of successfully unlocking the San Bernardino and now this intentionally leaked memo are part of a concerted effort to embarrass Apple by discrediting their encryption and privacy technology. I mean when was the last time you heard of the government bragging about having the ability to hack phones? You would expect the opposite since they wouldn't want such capabilities known. In the end Apple will win because this entire episode will motivate them to double down on their stated encryption/privacy policies and work even harder to lock down the phone to prying eyes.

  4. Re:Why? by Etherwalk · · Score: 4, Insightful

    99% of people in tech--EVERYBODY who does not work with law enforcement and understands the issues--was against the FBI.

  5. Re:Why? by alvinrod · · Score: 2

    I think there's a very important difference between user freedom (FOSS software) and user privacy (what this is about) that you're missing. Apple puts on more of a show about caring than they actually do, but it's also obvious that they take more steps than just about any other company of their size towards protecting user privacy.

    I think that their tendency in this direction arises as much from business goals as is does from any form of altruism. It doesn't take much in the way of mental adeptness to see that Apple's biggest competitor is in the business of learning everything it can about a person in order to target advertisements at users. Apple knows it can't succeed in this business, not without years of incredibly costly work and Google dropping the ball once or twice along the way. It's far better for them to try to deprive Google of what makes them successful by making privacy a feature of their devices, much like they've added other functionality that diminishes the ability to collect information or display ads. I wouldn't be surprised if they eventually offer some kind of proxy service that makes online tracking practically impossible.

    Really though, Apple is no different in this regard from any other company. Google didn't release their Google Docs because they care about users. Instead it was an opportunity to strike at an area where one of their main competitors (Microsoft) was heavily entrenched and disrupt their business model. You don't have to compete directly at something you're not good at if you can find a way to interfere with or outright nullify those advantages.

  6. prove it. by swell · · Score: 2

    "Just days after breaking into a terroristÃ(TM)s iPhone ..."

    So does this mean that we believe they were successful? Are we going to take their word for it? You are free to agree with this government decree, but not me.

    --
    ...omphaloskepsis often...
  7. Re:Why? by mrbester · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Using that argument, the US would still be a protectorate of Britain. You separatists didn't play nice with the law back then but now you're advocating it?

    --
    "Wait. Something's happening. It's opening up! My God, it's full of apricots!"
  8. Because it's the wrong phone by Geoffrey.landis · · Score: 5, Informative

    As if the phone in the San Bernadino case wasn't one that was used by an actual, real, murdering person who embarked on a terrorist attack?

    Correct: it wasn't the one used in planning the terrorist attack.

    To remind you of the facts, this was the work phone of (one of) the persons who embarked on the terrorist attack... which they planned using burner phones that they took some pains to destroy (along with the hard disk from their computer) and succeeded in doing so in a way that the FBI could not recover information.
    https://www.inverse.com/articl...
    http://www.washingtontimes.com...

    So, the question is, would they make an effort to to destroy two phones, and not bother destroying the third phone, if the third phone actually had any information on it?

    --
    http://www.geoffreylandis.com
  9. Spurring progress by A10Mechanic · · Score: 2

    It will be interesting to watch if phone manufacturers use this to spur better encryption and security in next generation phones. Or will public opinion and government meddling make it go the other way..

  10. It's a trade off [Re:Doesn't matter] by Geoffrey.landis · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It's not a false choice. When key evidence is behind locked doors you need a way to access it. This is precisely why we have search warrants.

    Nope. That's a choice made by society, a trade-off between privacy and authority. Law enforcement may say that they "need" a way to access it, but the extent to which we allow law enforcement to access locked vaults is a decision that is made by society, and one of the possible decisions is "no, find a different way to gather evidence."

    --
    http://www.geoffreylandis.com
    1. Re:It's a trade off [Re:Doesn't matter] by Geoffrey.landis · · Score: 3, Insightful

      We've already made the choice to limit privacy rights of suspected criminals.

      Yes, we have. We made a particular choice of limits, where some searches are allowed and some searches aren't.

      In the hypothetical case of unbreakable locks you propose, this forces us to yet make another choice. There are not, as you state, only two choices. There are three choices. One of these is to tell law enforcement agencies that they must find evidence elsewhere.

      You seem to be making arguments that this choice doesn't exist. That's incorrect.

      Now, a harder question is whether this choice should be taken. That's a much harder question, but there are good arguments that it should be (which have been made in great detail elsewhere.) This is a trade-off. That means it has benefits, and costs. To quote Scalia, sometimes it is desirable to "insulate the criminality of a few in order to protect the privacy of us all.”

      --
      http://www.geoffreylandis.com
    2. Re:It's a trade off [Re:Doesn't matter] by Type44Q · · Score: 2

      We've already made the choice to limit privacy rights of suspected criminals.

      Nice try but no, we haven't... and anyhow, what part of "Innocent Until Proven Guilty?" do you not understand??

  11. Wound self-inflicted by TheReaperD · · Score: 2

    All of this was irony and stupidity. The government agency that the gunman worked or had access to the phone as it belonged to the government agency and FBI stupidity lost them that access. Then they told Apple that they had to provide them the key to the phone. Apple correctly told them that no such thing exists as only the user (and in this case the employer, until they lost it) have the key. So then the FBI tried to make the case that they could force Apple to rewrite their software and then force update the phone to allow the phone to be unlocked without the key. A case that the FBI lost in parallel in a court case in New York shortly after on the same issue citing the same law they were trying to use in California. Seeing the wind blowing against them, the DOJ backed out with as much "dignity" they could muster. The court, not using the legalise, did not like the idea that the government could compel a company, who was under no criminal charges themselves on this, to provide product development and assistance to the government against their will to undermine their own products and services. The FBI deserved to have their asses handed to them in shame on this.

    --
    "Be particularly skeptical when presented with evidence confirming what you already believe." -
    1. Re:Wound self-inflicted by sumdumass · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Can I get a court order for you to pick the cotton on my south fields? I might if you broke a law and it was part of the punishment. But outside that it seems preposterous don't it? Even if I can make some convincing argument.

      The problem here is that the law allowing the warrant was created two years before the bill of rights was ratified let alone the amendment banning slavery except as a form of punishment. It is likely using it to force labor out of people would be in violation of these amendments. But using the law to take private property for public use could be constitutional if there is just compensation.

      In essence the argument for forcing Apple was we satisfied some of the constitutional requirements but ignore the constitutional prohibitions. A lot of people don't see the problem but those same people will cry foul when some other constitutional prohibition is in violation. What Apple did made them look like asses to those people and heroes to others who couldn't financially afford the fight if pushed on them.