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About 40,000 Unionized Verizon Workers Walk Off the Job (reuters.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from Reuters: In one of the largest U.S. strikes in recent years, nearly 40,000 Verizon workers walked off the job on Wednesday after contract talks hit an impasse. The event got a boost as U.S. Democratic presidential hopeful Bernie Sanders joined them at a Brooklyn rally ahead of the New York primary next week. The strike was called by the Communications Workers of America (CWA) and the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers that jointly represent employees with such jobs as customer services representatives and network technicians in Verizon Communications Inc's traditional wireline phone operations. The strike could affect service in Verizon's Fios Internet, telephone and TV services businesses across several U.S. East Coast states, including New York, Massachusetts and Virginia. Verizon and the unions have been talking since last June over the company's plans to cut healthcare and pension-related benefits over a three-year period. The workers have been without a contract since its agreement expired in August. Issues include healthcare, offshoring call center jobs, temporary job relocations and pensions.

30 of 189 comments (clear)

  1. No problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Couldn't affect customer service in any way, it's impossible to do worse.

    1. Re:No problem by Bloody+Bastard · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Be careful of what you ask for.

    2. Re: No problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Perhaps, but we need more of this. People standing up to large corporate interests who just want to keep cutting jobs, pay, and benefits is a good thing. That so many working people are brainwashed to believe otherwise is a tragedy.

      Corporations gain bargaining power by (allegedly) shareholders pooling capital. It's very hard to find someone who'll argue that corporations shouldn't act in their own interests. Why is it therefore wrong for labor to do the same? It isn't, and it's way past time for workers to figure that out.

      We've all endured more injustices than what started the American Revolution in the first place--those injustices then being both government and corporate just like today (The Boston Tea Party was a revolt against corporate welfare, not against taxes. Go look it up.) Yet we can't even fathom actually doing something about it. This needs to change.

      I wish these workers good luck. They're gonna need it with all the corporate media and paid shills everywhere about to be against them.

    3. Re: No problem by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 5, Insightful

      People standing up to large corporate interests who just want to keep cutting jobs, pay, and benefits is a good thing.

      How is striking going to convince a corporation to stop offshoring and automating jobs? It seems to me that it will convince them to do more. Look at what UAW strikes did to Detroit.

    4. Re: No problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Oh I hope they get what they want.

      However, what they wanted was probably the best medical plan and retirement package I have ever seen. 100% full med/dental/vision and 100% full retirement which includes the full insurance package after 25 years. Plus a 6.75% raise over 2 years.

      Neither side wanted to budge. The management was offering about 80% of that. Which is comparable to the rest of the company.

      The root of the issue is management has refused to actually put money into managing the network they own. They are selling it off as fast as they can. They bought the rest of wireless from Vodaphone and then are selling off wireline to frontier. Not exactly sure what the thinking is here.

    5. Re: No problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yeah, car companies started manufacturing elsewhere, then figured out building a car across the world isn't actually that economical due to increased transport costs which are only going to increase over time.

      Now you have other car companies coming to the midwest like Toyota and Nissan to build their cars closer to their markets. They actually pay a living wage and provide reasonable benefits so their workers don't feel the need to unionize. Imagine that, you treat your employees well and then they treat you well.

    6. Re: No problem by lorenlal · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The UAW strikes didn't cause the outflow of employment from Detroit. It was a consequence of NAFTA cheapening the import cost of goods made in Mexico.

      Since it's really off topic, I'd prefer not debating the merits and problems of NAFTA here. Yes, union negotiating and poor management did contribute. But the union strikes weren't the single cause of that employment offshoring.

    7. Re: No problem by AthanasiusKircher · · Score: 4, Interesting

      How is striking going to convince a corporation to stop offshoring and automating jobs? It seems to me that it will convince them to do more.

      Notice the groups mentioned in TFS, including an "Electrical Workers" union.

      Verizon can't really "offshore" or "automate" electrical wire installations in houses or businesses, or electrical repairs that need to be tailored to a specific location.

      Granted, some of the other striking workers may be in service applications that could theoretically be sent overseas, but as long as the workers who do actual work that is required to be physically located within the U.S. are standing in solidarity with the other workers, Verizon could be a heap of trouble without those folks.

      Not every job can be offshored. Skilled trades that deal directly with customers' equipment at a physical location (electricians, plumbers, etc.) are harder to offshore than just about anything else... including management.

    8. Re: No problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting


      the root of the problem is that unionized workers are lazy shit bags that work in a business unit that is slowly dwindling away.
      source: 2 yrs of having to deal with their bullshit.

      I disagree. The problem is not the union workers. It is the whole VZ system.

      The reason the business unit is fading away is the upper management has underfunded everything in wireline. I visited one plant where the furniture was from the 70/80s and equally nasty to show for it.

      It was amazing frustrating to do *anything* in that company. Most projects that should take 3-6 months front to end take 2-3 years to do. That is with 0 union employees involved. I would regularly see projects canceled not because they were bad. But simply because someone else in the company wanted to do the exact same thing and then never deliver on it. Poor technical decisions made at upper levels based on something along the lines 'its always been done that way'.

      The whole thing is being setup to be sold off to other phone companies leaving only VZW left.

      source: 7 years as VZ wireline non union employee who no longer works there

    9. Re: No problem by Dcnjoe60 · · Score: 2

      People standing up to large corporate interests who just want to keep cutting jobs, pay, and benefits is a good thing.

      How is striking going to convince a corporation to stop offshoring and automating jobs? It seems to me that it will convince them to do more. Look at what UAW strikes did to Detroit.

      If striking gets the message out and people agree with the strikers, then change is possible. The court of public opinion sways a lot of corporate action in America (and elsewhere). For instance, if benefits are part of one's total compensation, then these cuts are compensation cuts.

      As a percentage, are all workers receiving the same cut in compensation from the clerk in the stock room to the top executives? Or are these cuts targeting a certain class of worker? If they are not across the board cuts, then one could argue that an injustice is taking place. One could further decide if one wants to support Verizon and its shareholders for perpetrating said injustice. If enough people agree, then change really can happen. If they don't then regardless the workers are SOL.

      The biggest harm corporations have done to society is convince individuals that there is nothing they can do. A few people threw a bunch of tea in the bay a couple hundred years ago and the ultimate result was a new country. Corporate power is only an illusion if the people exercise their power.

    10. Re: No problem by jmd · · Score: 4, Informative

      "Corporations gain bargaining power by (allegedly) shareholders pooling capital. It's very hard to find someone who'll argue that corporations shouldn't act in their own interests. Why is it therefore wrong for labor to do the same? It isn't, and it's way past time for workers to figure that out."

      My father (a college professor not a union member) put it this way when I was in my late teens in the early 70s: If companies can have 10 people sit around a table and decide what to pay the worker, the worker should be able to have 10 people sit around a table and decide what they will work for.

      Unions are a special interest group just like AARP, AAA, NRA, etc etc.

    11. Re: No problem by TheSync · · Score: 2

      The average annual percent change, 1987-2014, of productivity of US motor vehicle manufacturing workers is 3.6%. So whichever workers are still left are doing a better job!

    12. Re: No problem by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They're also employing a lot fewer people. One of the problems that cities that relied on various forms of manufacturing have seen is that greater automation means fewer employees per factory. It's then also easier for the company to pay them well, because labour is a far smaller proportion of their total costs. When a factory is employing 10,000 people to manually assemble whatever it's producing, a 5% pay increase is a huge cut of their profits and may be enough to push them into the red. When they're paying 100-1000 people to manage, maintain, and repair automated assembly lines, a 10-20% pay increase has a far smaller effect on the balance sheet. The 9,000 other people still need to make a living somehow though.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    13. Re: No problem by RabidReindeer · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The world is full of artificially inflated bumps. Just look at executive salaries over the last 3 decades. Do they really work 200x as many hours as anyone else? Do they have Cosmic Wisdom that no one else has? Has their productivity gone up multi-fold over the last 20 years like line-level workers (who are making in purchasing terms less than they did when they were less productive)?

      No, but they have particularly effective union - the Good Old Boys Network.

      There is no practical reason why we cannot outsource the executive functions to New Delhi and pay them 7 grand a year. We don't do it because they have an "in" with the directors that line-level workers don't. They pay their Union Dues in quid-pro-quo instead of formal paycheck deductions.

    14. Re: No problem by IamTheRealMike · · Score: 2

      Hmm. Isn't that two sides of the same coin? Mexican imports were cheaper ... partly because the UAW ensured costs were high, even at the expense of the long term health of the industry?

      Sure, unions weren't the only factor in what happened to Detroit, but putting the blame squarely on el Mexicans seems rather Trump-like.

    15. Re: No problem by KozmoStevnNaut · · Score: 2

      Unionizing is still a good idea, even if your pay and benefits are good. A union is also a social construct that increases solidarity and loyalty. Both towards each other, but actually towards the company as well. And if/when the company decides to try screwing over the workers again for short term profits, they will have a stronger voice to oppose destructive changes.

      --
      Eat the rich.
    16. Re: No problem by KozmoStevnNaut · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I agree that any power can be abused, and that the US unions in particular have a lot of baggage. But we are in a period of time that is very employer-friendly, due to the influences of corporate lobbying and influence. The only realistic way to push back is unionization and worker solidarity.

      Automation of tasks and the gradual phasing out of manual tasks has been going on since the industrial revolution, and shows no signs of slowing down. As we increasingly delegate physically demanding tasks to robots and automated systems, efficiency is greatly increased, and the overall demanded workload on humans should be proportionally reduced. In an ideal society, this increased efficiency and reduced overall workload should mean that everyone could work less while maintaining or even increasing their standard of living.

      Instead, the majority of the results of this increased automation are sequestered in the pockets of the wealthy few, put in tax shelters and deliberately kept from stimulating the economy. While they amass wealth, a desperate underclass is created, sedated by mindless reality TV and The American Dream that they are actually just temporarily embarrassed millionaires, and that they'll make it big any day know if they just keep their heads down and work as hard as they can. Any day now.

      Increased automation could make life easier and better for everyone, but it's fucking over the majority, thanks to corporate greed.

      --
      Eat the rich.
    17. Re: No problem by JBMcB · · Score: 2

      Nissan's two factories are in the south, and three of Toyota's four US factories is in the Midwest. None of them are unionized.

      Meanwhile, Ford is importing the Transit Connect from Turkey and building a brand new factory in Mexico, and GM is starting to import Buicks from China.

      --
      My Other Computer Is A Data General Nova III.
  2. It's time to rise up a be counted by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It's a power struggle between union and management, and although I think a fair deal can be reached, the management clearly needs to be sent a signal.

    We simply don't care any more about increasing share holder value at the expense of jobs.

    1. Re:It's time to rise up a be counted by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      I think a fair deal can be reached, the management clearly needs to be sent a signal.

      Can you fear me now?

  3. Re:No More Clintons, ty by Noah+Haders · · Score: 5, Informative

    The Verizon CEO ripped Bernie in a FB post, about his "contemptible" platform of trying to make business decisions into a moral issue. Probably the wrong response at the wrong time.

    http://www.politico.com/blogs/...

  4. There was a two and a half year cliff. by tlambert · · Score: 2

    http://www.weeklystandard.com/...

    There was a two and a half year cliff. We are just on our way into that now. Yes, this does mean a reduction in so-called "Cadillac Plans", orwise known as "Good health insurance.

    In addition, in states like New York and California, which set up exchanges, have their own sunset coming on the federal subsidy; this was the big argument between Red States, like Alabama, who refused to set up exchanges of their own, and the federal government last year when those sunsets started to kick in, and the question was whether the sunset provisions applied in those states, or whether the fed, if it wanted people to have the subsidy, would have to continue paying all of it themselves, rather than the states having to pick up the bill.

    Ironically, it was tied to creating a state exchange, so there are good legal arguments why the fed would have to carry the load they willingly shouldered when they picked up for the lack of state exchanges.

    The jury is still out on who is going to foot the extra Medicaid costs, but the bill is definitely coming due for the unions, and they are seriously unhappy.

    I expect that if this keeps up for any significant period of time, since it's on the order of 22% of Verizon employees, if we are to believe the 40,000 employee numbers, that we will be seeing Verizon call centers opening up in the Philippines to take advantage of the recently fast-tracked TPP (Trans Pacific Partnership) agreement.

    "May you live in interesting times..." applies, I think.

  5. You can vote with your wallet here. by wernst · · Score: 5, Informative
    Verizon made an overall profit of $4.04 Billion in the third quarter of 2015, reported Forbes (which I am not linking to.) That's not income. That's profit.

    I can certainly understand that businesses, in lean times, need to take steps to keep afloat to avoid bankruptcy, but when you're close to earning $12B in profit a year, cutting pension and healthcare benefits is just mean-spirited. Verizon is destroying the middle class that it is hoping will buy its FIOS and wireless services, and that's both bad for business and bad for the country, and I don't want to support those sorts of actions.

    Verizon wireless did a similarly mean-spirited thing last year and moved thousands of customer support jobs from "expensive" SoCal to "cheap" Kentucky, putting a few of my pals out of a job, actually. Despite good wireless service, I cancelled my Verizon Wireless accounts immediately, and when Retention called to ask why, I told them exactly why, asked the caller where they worked, and advised them to start looking for a new job because their position was surely going to move to a cheaper area of the country too.

    Isn't $12B in profits ENOUGH? Vote with your wallets folks, and be sure to tell Verizon why you're leaving.

    1. Re: You can vote with your wallet here. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

      Verizon has racked in about 1.8 Billion in profit each month for the first quarter. Verizon's own estimates state that is currently costing them about a Billion per year on employee compensation, or a little more than 2 weeks of business. I think they can afford not to gut every single part of the benefit package. Oh and they recently got 10.8 Billion for selling off 3 States that was effective 4/1/16, so they have some cash lying around

  6. Good for them. Techies take note! by ErichTheRed · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'm always glad to see union workers standing up for what they want, and I've never worked in a position where I've even had the opportunity to join a union. It's a nice contrast to the ultra-Libertarian crowd in IT who doesn't realize they're being taken advantage of.

    If IT and software development were unionized, or better, entry was controlled by a professional organization, people would have a better quality of life. The H-1B visa abuse wouldn't exist and employers who routinely understaff positions and demand 70-hour work weeks to make up for it would be curbed. If we had a professional organization instead of a union, we could actually train new entrants instead of relying on overpaid consultants and/or dealing with incompetence. Instead, we have the lone ranger mentality, and people are convinced that nothing bad will ever be done by their employer.

    From what I've read, the union is entirely justified in this case - Verizon is trying to slowly take away things like employer-paid health care and hoping people don't notice by giving them a salary increase. These things are basics, and should be part of everyone's benefits package. It's executive and shareholder greed, pure and simple. Verizon makes massive amounts of profit and their workers should get their fair share, period.

    1. Re:Good for them. Techies take note! by ryanmc1 · · Score: 2

      I think it is funny that you are blaming the company for you volunteering to work 70+ hours. I am a software engineer, and I have never worked more than 50 hours in a week, and even that is very few and far between. If I have to work late because we are releasing new code that night, then I take the next morning off as comp time.

      How am I able to do this? I pick employers that respect work life balance. When I interview for a new job I ask them what their work life is like, if they say that they do a lot of crunch time late nights, or they have sleeping areas in the office that is a red flag for me and I move on. I make it very clear that I am being paid for 40 hours, and I stick to that 40 hours. I personally do not set a precedence for working more hours, otherwise the company will start to expect it.

      There are engineers, at the company I work for, that do give more hours. They also tend to get more recognition that I do, but I am also ok with that. I have been promoted 3 times in the last 3 years and I am happy with that pace.

      If you are thinking, where can I find this dream job you are speaking of, come to Utah. We are desperate for good software engineers. I get emails and phone calls from recruiters all the time, and in Utah we really respect the work life balance. There is so much competition for workers in Utah that wages are also really high compared to the cost of living. And best of all I live only 15 minutes from work. I don't have to take a long train rides to work and be hours away from my family. I don't have to commute in multi-hour long traffic jams. If my kids need me I can leave and go get them, bring them to work with me if necessary, or take them home.

      If you really want to know what company I specifically work for, them PM me, and if you are interested in a job I can recommend one for you. Our own recruiters keep asking us for recommendations for new employees. We have a lot of fun here, and we are getting ready for an IPO in a couple years. We have an Arcade room, and computer gaming room, pool tables, ping pong, etc.

  7. My Libertarian view on labor by zerofoo · · Score: 2, Informative

    One of the most important tenets of Libertarianism is your individual right to sell your labor. Voluntarily choosing to sell your labor via a labor union isn't incompatible with Libertarianism.

    I have two issues with some unions:

    1. An individual should never be forced to join a union. An individual should join a union if it makes sense for the individual. Too often unions enrich themselves while providing little else to the rank and file.

    2. There should be no unions in Government work. No functions of our Government should be at the mercy of a union.

    Beyond that, I support voluntary membership in private sector unions.

  8. Re:You can misinterpret statistical data here by Bite+The+Pillow · · Score: 4, Informative

    Wireless is not involved. The people who are striking are the ones who physically connect stuff with wires, which is the opposite of wireless.

    Verizon's wired business is shrinking because of people going wireless. The people who connect wires are suffering because people are going wireless.

    Is there still a number of wires left to be connected? Sure, because wireless isn't completely wireless. But it's a lot less demand for the skills of connecting wires compared to pre-wireless days.

    You mentioned Verizon Wireless as if it were a separate company. And it is a separate issue, since these are customer support jobs that could be done from the moon for all it matters.

    If you take the losses or slowdowns on wired business, and consider that wireless offsets those declines, then wireless is a money printing business for Verizon. I think your message is better off focusing on these sorts of points, not global all-business-lines profit. And you'll make a far stronger argument. I'm actually a little bit on the other side of the argument now. Like 98% with you instead of 99%.

  9. Re: Really, There's No problem by RabidReindeer · · Score: 2

    Dear Sir:

    Our company, Bombay Telephone Polishers, LLC stands ready to provide most excellent service with all needful certifications at very low prices.

    In other words, don't be silly. If there's one thing outsourcing companies excel in it's cram-and-barf certs, and even when they don't actually have those certs, they'll claim they do just to score the contract with the corporate bargain-hunters. Then, if there is an actual requirement, they'll ram as many junior persons through cram-and-barf as necessary.

  10. Tell me... by wkwilley2 · · Score: 3, Funny

    How would one ionize a Verizon Employee in the first place?

    --
    Have you ever fallen asleep at the keybhanusdiog?