Slashdot Mirror


Kindle Unlimited Scammers Gaming the System At the Expense of Real Authors (annchristy.com)

Reader saccade writes: Kindle Unlimited is Amazon's book service that lets customers "check out" any book from a large selection without paying for individual titles. Like most things on the Internet, it's fallen prey to scammers. The system is designed to pay authors out of a single pool of money based on how many pages of their books are actually read. However, scammers have figured out how to rig the system by posting large, fake books, then hiring click farms to "read" them. This doesn't affect people using the service to read books (other than the nuisance of occasionally stumbling over bogus titles), but legitimate authors are getting squeezed as more of the KU payment pool goes to thieves and their bogus books.

106 comments

  1. How by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Aren't customers required to pay a subscription fee to be able to read the large collection of books in the first place?

    1. Re:How by tripleevenfall · · Score: 1

      And what are these "fake books"? Are they just jumbles of random text? Isn't Amazon vetting books to determine their legitimacy?

    2. Re: How by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course! But let's say you pay $10 per month, per bot for the service and is able to make $20 per month, per bot... Makes good business sense to me.

      The issues I see here is that Amazon (1) has no way to verify a customer is actually a customer and (2) has no way to verify a book is actually valid. This might be by design, after all, Amazon makes money regardless of the existence of bots.

    3. Re:How by Lumpy · · Score: 2

      easy to dump wikipedia to a text file and then process into a kindle book.

      This will bypass any "vetting" that is not a human being.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    4. Re:How by omnichad · · Score: 2

      If a schizophrenic wants to post an entire novel of word salad for sale, Amazon is more than happy to give them what they want and take a cut of what little money is there. How can you tell the difference?

    5. Re:How by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      There are thousands of books going onto amazon daily. Moreover, even if they had someone read the text, how do they know if it is "no market ever" versus "limited market"?

      Some of the scammers get real blocks of text which is just something that would not realistically sell -- grab a doctoral thesis from your local university, and you have something that is perfectly reasonable english text, and even something that someone somewhere in the world will reasonably pay for. Amazon can't tell at a glance whether the market for this "book" is one copy (the authors mom will download it to show off the fact that her kid wrote this and got a PhD) or a thousand (if it is something that turns out to be groundbreaking enough that thousands of researchers around the world want a copy). Alternately, join a learn-to-write-novels group; a bunch of beginners will give you their first horrible attempt at writing a novel so you can comment on them, and now you have thousands of pages of really awful text that doesn't appear in any database of plagarized text. I could come up with a dozen other ways to spend an hour and get a virtually unlimited stack of text that no automated process can tell is worthless, and even a human will be unclear if it is junk that appeals to nobody or something that will appeal to a handful of folks somewhere.

      Others, as pointed out in the article, will submit something that is a hundred pages of real text followed by the output of a random-text-generator. That is enough that a quick spot-check where amazon pays someone to read a few pages probably won't notice, and given the volume of stuff submitted to amazon, they can't realistically pay someone to read everything (much like how youtube can't realistically pay staff to watch every video uploaded and check them for bad content...)

    6. Re:How by vux984 · · Score: 5, Informative

      Beats me, but my sister ordered a book off amazon once something about comedians; she knew I liked Jon Stewart etc.

      The "book" was nothing but a verbatim cut and paste articles from Wikipedia. No chapters. No organization. No value add over the wikipedia content. And one of the entire later sections was about 30-40 pages of nothing but random garbage (that looked like a corrupt PDF file).

      Here's an article on the subject...
      http://www.tomsguide.com/us/Am...

    7. Re:How by known_coward_69 · · Score: 1

      yes, and there is a monthly fund, a pot of money amazon dedicates to pay authors depending on what was read. 1.upload crappy books 2.pay poor people to "read" them 3. ? 4. PROFIT $$$$$$ long time ago i set up a kindle alert on fatwallet and slickdeals and every day it's crappy books that are "free" that get advertised

    8. Re:How by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thing is, if a subscription is $10/mth, $10 for labor, there is $100k/mth to be divided among the authors, and say a billion pages read a month, then having 200k pages read a month will break even. If you can manage even 1% of pages read a month, you're making a decent profit for personally doing very little. But, even better, amazon provides free trials so you only have to exceed 3rd world labor rates and they're dividing far more than $100k/month.

    9. Re:How by Carewolf · · Score: 1

      Aren't customers required to pay a subscription fee to be able to read the large collection of books in the first place?

      Yes, I think ignoring anyone reading more pages than they are paying for (based on what Amazon pays writers compared to what the reader pays Amazon). Or better yet, scale their weight in the pay structure, so Amazon never pays authors more per customer than the customer pays them. It would also mean serious large scale readers would get counted less but it should make it possible to prevent this fraud.

    10. Re:How by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Beats me, but my sister ordered a book off amazon once something about comedians; she knew I liked Jon Stewart etc.

      The "book" was nothing but a verbatim cut and paste articles from Wikipedia. No chapters. No organization. No value add over the wikipedia content. And one of the entire later sections was about 30-40 pages of nothing but random garbage (that looked like a corrupt PDF file).

      And that's why you read the Amazon reviews first.

    11. Re:How by DrXym · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Not only is Amazon happy but they have a whole range of vanity self-publishing services to extract money from them all along the way. It doesn't matter to Amazon if the author has crapped out some incoherent screed on paper providing they get a cut from it.

    12. Re:How by turp182 · · Score: 2

      Bookbub is a good, legitimate site for cheap or free books.

      Many times the authors give away one book of a series, hoping for sales of the others.

      I consider this a reasonable business model (as the free books of this type that I have read were complete stories in-and-of themselves).

      --
      BlameBillCosby.com
    13. Re:How by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But they will gladly block Native American language ebooks w/o recourse.

    14. Re:How by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      I wondered how 50 shades of grey was able to get published.

    15. Re:How by known_coward_69 · · Score: 1

      ereaderiq.com add amazon kindle books to watch list import your watch list into ereaderiq and it sends you email alerts when the price falls

    16. Re:How by funwithBSD · · Score: 1

      I am not an average reader I don't think.

      I have read 9 free books of about 300 words length in the last week alone.

      It would be interesting to see where I fall in the "average" for Unlimited subscribers.

      --
      Never answer an anonymous letter. - Yogi Berra
    17. Re:How by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      OK, so I know you must have made a typo there and meant pages and not word... But, if you had really read 9 books of about 300 words length I would have to wonder where in the heck you can get such short stories and who would publish them. And yes, it would make you a very below average reader. Less than 400 words read per day!

    18. Re:How by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm sorry you are mistaken. A schizophrenic publishing a novel of word salad cannot help but be leaps and bounds better than the novelization of an erotic fan fiction of a puritanical teen romance novel.

    19. Re:How by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This makes me sad.

      Is this an Amazon policy or is there maybe some weird (and certainly unconstitutional) law on the books from WWII or the 19th century? Not trying to defend Amazon here; I'm certainly no fan or regular customer of theirs.

    20. Re:How by GrumpySteen · · Score: 1

      I have read 9 free books of about 300 words length in the last week alone.

      I hope that's a typo. 300 words is about the length of a single page in a paperback. You aren't actually saying you only read 9 pages worth of text in a full week, are you?

    21. Re:How by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Vanity publishing has pretty always existed for the sole purpose of parting a writer from their money and giving back as little as possible in return. Anyone who expects different is a fool.

    22. Re:How by jo7hs2 · · Score: 1

      I once bought a book off Amazon on Don Cheadle as part of a joke for my sister that was also just a Wikipedia dump. Since it was a gag gift and hadn't been reviewed yet, plus it was very cheap, I didn't get *too* mad. But frankly, with stuff like the article above, my own interactions with third-party retailers, etc..., I'm starting to think Amazon isn't doing enough policing. It is sort of like eBay back in the bad old days. Not saying eBay is safer than Amazon, just better than eBay of a specific timeframe.

    23. Re:How by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If it's policy, it's not mentioned in the publishing guidelines (which I happened to have opened). I'd be _exttremely_ surprised if they would reject a book because of the language, unless it was for some technical reason (unsupported character set, or some such--but even that could be managed with an embedded font, if the appropriate unicode font existed).

    24. Re:How by omnichad · · Score: 1

      Can the e-ink Kindles even display arbitrary fonts? It might be a rule that they only allow books that can be displayed on every supported device.

    25. Re:How by pr0fessor · · Score: 1

      perhaps that's why they were free... only one page.

      A 300 page book which is probably close to average size and would probably take me 4-5 hours to read not that I couldn't read faster but we are assuming I am lazily enjoying the book with some coffee, a snack, and my feet kicked up so let say an average of 4.5 hours 9 books a week, I wish I had 5.5 hours a day to kick back and enjoy a book.

    26. Re:How by funwithBSD · · Score: 1

      Yeah, pages not words.

      I read at about double your speed, so the 3 to 5 hrs I usually get to read is plenty.

      Granted, I work from home and often read while sitting on stupid "Status" meetings where normal workers would have to sit in a room and try not to fall asleep. That nets me an hour or two on a typical day, sometimes as much as 3.
       

      --
      Never answer an anonymous letter. - Yogi Berra
    27. Re:How by pr0fessor · · Score: 1

      I work from my home office and am familiar with those meetings, although I'm the one putting everybody to sleep.

      Now I know why that guy wasn't listening when I told him there where 4 or 5 other departments waiting for him to finish so they could start... He was reading a book.

    28. Re:How by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      Did any of the Native American tribes even have a written language? I assumed that all the written language was sounds translated into Latin.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    29. Re:How by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      Heck, how hard is it to publish the collected works of Shakespeare, after all, that would actually be a legal way to get a large book to use. It would also be incredibly hard to rule out as legitimate usage.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    30. Re:How by omnichad · · Score: 1

      Many do today, which is really all that matters. Navajo, in particular, requires its own special fonts

    31. Re:How by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      That is interesting, I suppose that goes right along with the Navajo code talkers from WWII.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
  2. works as it was designed to! by ole_timer · · Score: 2

    That's capitalist way!

    --
    nothing to see here - move along
    1. Re:works as it was designed to! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's better than the progressive, socialist, communist, fascist, or theocratic ways, which generally result in no books on the shelves other than those that serve the ruling class.

    2. Re:works as it was designed to! by ole_timer · · Score: 1

      exactly! more books, some of are actually valuable. but at least you have books.

      --
      nothing to see here - move along
    3. Re:works as it was designed to! by Solandri · · Score: 1

      Actually, this is more akin to the socialist way, where some central authority collects all the money and is charge of distributing it in a "fair" way. But does a really bad job at it.

      The capitalist way would be for each author to sell their own work and collect money directly from the buyer, which is how the regular Amazon Kindle market works (except for the publishers monopolizing authors and trying to rig prices).

    4. Re:works as it was designed to! by ole_timer · · Score: 1

      how is a fake book and the click farm not the author's work?

      --
      nothing to see here - move along
  3. Call now! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And order the Kindle Krap. Operators are standing by

  4. split fee at user level by xlyz · · Score: 3, Interesting

    don't share money from a common pool, but split each user fee based on his readings. spammers will still get some money, but only from people that actually read their books: not so many I would say.

    1. Re:split fee at user level by Sneftel · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Moreover, only split actually-paid fees (not trial accounts), and only after Amazon takes its cut. That way, there'd be no way for an independent cartel of publishers and readers to collude in a way that let them come out ahead.

      That doesn't solve one of the problems the article mentioned -- driving up popularity and visibility, so that real readers end up buying fake books -- but that's a problem Amazon is already dealing with.

      --
      The opinions stated herein do not necessarily represent those of anybody at all. Deal with it.
    2. Re:split fee at user level by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I like the idea, but a downside would be to disincentive less popular authors.

      I'm assuming more people will sign up to read popular books, so they in can be considered getting a cut from the general pool.

      Then, each less popular author would be getting a cut from a percentage of the general pool. It could balance out if each less popular author gets a generally fair cut divided from the general pool.

      But I'm going to assume a large readership of the general pool will not read any non-popular books. And that the less popular books will be read by a smaller group of big volume readers.

      So then one might say "well, that's still fair, right?"

      But, why would the small publishers even bother to be in the service. They leave, and get paid full price when the rare but determined someone wants to read their book.

      So it is a tax on the more popular books, but it becomes a public goods issue where the service becomes more popular => more readers if there is a greater selection of books.

    3. Re:split fee at user level by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And to continue that, that could be fine and how the service will shake out.

      Not really a judgment call on it either way.

  5. Pay by PAGE? by xxxJonBoyxxx · · Score: 1

    >> The system is designed to pay authors out of a single pool of money based on how many pages of their books are actually read

    Seriously? I guess I'll have to start writing wordier and larger then.

    1. Re:Pay by PAGE? by EvilSS · · Score: 2, Insightful

      >> The system is designed to pay authors out of a single pool of money based on how many pages of their books are actually read Seriously? I guess I'll have to start writing wordier and larger then.

      Funny enough it was done this way to prevent this exact type of fraud. In this case, they wanted to prevent authors from uploading crap then incentivising people to download it. Or even legit authors from using social media and such to get people to download their book knowing they wouldn't read it, just to "support" the author. Guess they didn't see this one coming though.

      --
      I browse on +1 so AC's need not respond, I won't see it.
    2. Re:Pay by PAGE? by Moof123 · · Score: 2

      Should be that each individual's subscription money goes proportionally to the authors they read. One page farmer could only cause as much damage as the money he is putting in (minus Amazon profits, of course). Seems like a simple page limit or similar could nip this in the bud.

    3. Re:Pay by PAGE? by Carewolf · · Score: 1

      >> The system is designed to pay authors out of a single pool of money based on how many pages of their books are actually read

      Seriously? I guess I'll have to start writing wordier and larger then.

      I have been told that is how American educational books are already paid. Which explains why they are always 10x longer and has smaller topics than equivalent local books.

    4. Re:Pay by PAGE? by lgw · · Score: 1

      George Ar! Ar! Martin is probably making bank off this.

      He might be, if he still wrote books!

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    5. Re:Pay by PAGE? by Kreela · · Score: 1

      A month or two ago Amazon put in a cap of 3000 pages per book that they will pay for books in the programme. That gives you an idea of what was going on, and that they already knew about it. People were bundling together several books and getting click-farmers to "read" them. Now the fraudsters are forced to publish more books in order to get the same payout, so the problem has become much, much more visible. That's what's got a lot of regular authors up in arms - the new books that are stuffed with nonsense text and aren't aimed at normal readers are crowding out new releases. It used to be easy to release a book on Amazon and expect a few people to check it out, even if you didn't promote it heavily, because it would appear on the "new releases" list for that genre. That would guarantee a few organic sales if the cover and premise were up to scratch, and with any luck good reviews and word of mouth would spread from there. Due to the flood of scam books this is now impossible, because many readers have given up looking through the new releases for reading suggestions. The idea of giving out money in proportion to how much the reader pays in has promise. But Amazon don't seem to have been able to successfully pay authors in the way they said they would in the first place, by page read. They seem to be paying according to the last page accessed, and counting skipped pages as read. If they can't even get that right, what hope is there they'll be able to implement something more complex?

  6. Just finished writing my first book by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's nearly 4 billion pages long, at one word per page, because I'm edgy.

  7. What's the problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    These books are identified, the authors that claimed them via KDP are known legal entities (KDP authors have to enter USA SSNs - even when resident elsewhere). With this information Amazon merely needs to forward it on to the FBI's cyber-crime dept who will gladly prosecute the fraud cases. The money comes back, assets taken by the feds, etc, and details passed on to crook's native police.

    1. Re:What's the problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Where's the crime? They're gaming the system, but there is no crime that the FBI would be interested in. The books exist, worthless though they may be, the people in the click farms click through and "read" them, the "authors" get paid. There may be a violation of Amazon's T&Cs, but that's not the FBIs job to deal with.

  8. Just like by twmcneil · · Score: 1

    Isn't this the same way IBM's LOC payment system worked?

    --
    "The ferrets, they're every where I tell you!"
  9. thieves.. by queBurro · · Score: 1

    they've not actually stolen anything have they? they've created a new work of art, that just happens to be junk.

    --
    sag
    1. Re:thieves.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Yes they have.
      They're taking money from a shared pool based on fraudulent "readers"

    2. Re:thieves.. by Errol+backfiring · · Score: 1

      they've created a new work of art

      That's why they are called con artists. This problem is very wide spread due to all management courses telling you should steer the processes on measurable objectives. The real objectives (how often a book is read in this case) are near impossible to check, but there is always something you can check (the number of url hits, for example). So the wrong quantity is optimized and you literally get what you ask for: url hits, not book readings.

      I have worked in a company where we had to maximize the support time spent on a problem. You can guess the clients paid a lot of support and went to our competitors before the support budget they had bought was empty.

      --
      Nae king! Nae laird! Nae yurrupiean pressedent! We willna be fooled again!
    3. Re:thieves.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They are using bots to download their fake books. These affect read counters.

      Even thickwits like yourself can see it's not about the shit they upload, but the fraudulent activity that takes place after. The more their books are read, the more money they make. The problem is no one is touching them, just fake downloads, like youtube streaming counts for bands by the large publishers (yes, they game the system, too).

      If the two lines of summary are too much for you to bother with, perhaps you should piss off to 4chan and the daily mail, where you'll feel at home.

    4. Re: thieves.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How the fuck do you rationalize that? People downloading/pirating software are not thieves but bots downloading are?

    5. Re:thieves.. by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      I just found out I'm going to be judged partly on the number of commits to the repository I make. Guess whether I'm changing how I work to generate more or fewer commits. (Surprised me; the company is usually smarter than that.)

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    6. Re: thieves.. by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Pirates may have an effect on profits through additional or fewer sales, but do not directly affect revenue. These bots are fraudulently sending their owners more money out of a fixed pool, leading less for the honest people. Theft is not quite the right word; I'd probably call it embezzlement.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  10. Another example of rigging the system by DidgetMaster · · Score: 1

    You can't trust anything on the Internet anymore. If you go to a review website hoping to find legitimate reviews by real customers for a product, service, or company; be prepared to encounter hundreds of "phony reviews" that are posted by paid shills to write glowing reviews for crappy products. People are paid to hype things on social media and programmers are busy creating bots to automate stuff like that too. You might see two comments on a forum; one has hundreds of "likes" and the other has none; but all the likes are generated to give the false sense of popularity. As usual, the crooks and scammers are ruining it for everyone else.

    1. Re:Another example of rigging the system by swb · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'm curious whether people naturally game the system because people are inherently greedy and dishonest, or whether they're greedy and dishonest because the system itself appears rigged and gamed from the top down and they're only adapting to a broken system.

    2. Re:Another example of rigging the system by smooth+wombat · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The former. Witness the number of people on here and elsewhere who will give every excuse imaginable why they don't pay the people for the work they've produced but instead pirate it because it's free.

      They're greedy because they believe they are entitled to everything for free and dishonest because they make excuses for why they shouldn't pay someone for the work which has been produced.

      --
      We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
    3. Re:Another example of rigging the system by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... which is why the internet has never recovered from the Eternal September. I remember the 1980's internet: you could basically trust that a review of something was written by an actual human who had used that thing and was telling you what he or she actually thought. There was none of this fake-popularity and manipulation, not to mention no commercial advertising. When the general public discovered the internet in the early 90's, well, that spelled the end of that spirit. As you say, nothing online can be trusted now.

      The internet: 1969-1993. May it RIP.

    4. Re:Another example of rigging the system by known_coward_69 · · Score: 1

      any algorithm can be gamed i get free rides on NYC public transportation enough times to make it worth it because i figured out which car to ride in

    5. Re:Another example of rigging the system by known_coward_69 · · Score: 1

      #1 people have been gaming the system for decades. SSI, disability, public pensions, etc.

    6. Re:Another example of rigging the system by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The only thing terms like "the system" do is mark you as someone who spouts mindless political slogans and has no idea where they are coming from.

    7. Re:Another example of rigging the system by danbert8 · · Score: 1

      Even if you take out all the shill 5 star reviews, you still have a shit load of 1 star reviews by people who are pissed off for stupid reasons like not reading the product description or some other random reason. Look at the reviews for Fallout 4 on Amazon and filter down to the 1 star reviews. Most people are pissed off that the disk doesn't have the full game, just an installer for Steam and then you are expected to download the game from there. If you read the description and the answered questions it makes that pretty clear...

      --
      Yes it's an anecdote! Were you expecting original research in a Slashdot comment?
    8. Re:Another example of rigging the system by suutar · · Score: 1

      you misspelled "millennia".

    9. Re:Another example of rigging the system by d34thm0nk3y · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Retroactive copyright extensions that actually do steal content from the public domain: Totally not a game rigged from the top down, apparently.

    10. Re:Another example of rigging the system by swb · · Score: 1

      Now the next question, do we perceive people as greedy and dishonest because they actually are, or because the level of greed and dishonesty is so high we simply assume everyone has this quality?

    11. Re:Another example of rigging the system by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Witness the number of people on here and elsewhere who will give every excuse imaginable why they don't pay the people for the work they've produced but instead pirate it because it's free.

      They're greedy because they believe they are entitled to everything for free and dishonest because they make excuses for why they shouldn't pay someone for the work which has been produced.

      4th mansion, 6th yacht, 15th sports car vs. access to culture and knowledge.

      Hmmm... let's see...

    12. Re:Another example of rigging the system by AthanasiusKircher · · Score: 2

      Retroactive copyright extensions that actually do steal content from the public domain: Totally not a game rigged from the top down, apparently.

      I absolutely concur with you about the ridiculous laws that have created ex post facto copyright extensions. I'm a big fan of the original copyright terms of 1790, and everything that's more than a few decades old should be in the public domain.

      HOWEVER, that has little to do with GP's point. Go on any torrent site and witness the number of people who are currently downloading movies, music, tv shows, books, etc. from this year. Do the same for material of the past decade (or even 28 years, if you prefer an actual copyright term).

      Now, go on the same site and look at how many people are downloading materials that are over 30 years old. Sure, there's some stuff up there, but it's tiny compared to the amount of current content being pirated.

      You're right to complain about how copyrights should expire within reasonable terms. But the VAST majority of piracy is of material that would be under copyright even using the shortest copyright terms ever available historically. Piracy is therefore mostly about "I wanna have new stuff now!" and less about some sort of protest against how Mickey Mouse cartoons from 1930 should be in public domain... how many people are actually taking that stuff?

    13. Re:Another example of rigging the system by Blaskowicz · · Score: 1

      I remember briefly reading about jazz bands suffering a lot. Live bands face huge competition from dead people.
      Of course that is the case whether said dead people are in public domain or not.

    14. Re:Another example of rigging the system by T.E.D. · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I'm curious whether people naturally game the system because people are inherently greedy and dishonest...

      Its this, sad to say. To misquote Kay from MiB: a person is nice, but people are greedy dishonest animals.

      Let me illustrate with a (somewhat personal) story from the early 20th Century.

      The Osage Nation in Oklahoma did one thing really smart (and lucky) that most other tribes didn't manage: When the federal government forced (yes forced) them to distribute their land to individual tribe members, they kept the mineral rights for the tribe. Then, in 1898, oil was found on their land.

      Picture Beverly Hillbillies on a tribal scale. For a while, the regular checks from the oil revenues were not just enough to live off of, but enough to qualify recipients as fairly wealthy. By the 1920's they were like a rural Oklahoma version of Kuwait.

      So in come the greedy a-holes. At first they satisfied themselves with declaring Indians "incompetent", and using the government guardianship to steal their money. But what they eventually started doing is finding themselves uneducated older Osages, tricking them into "adopting" them, and then killing them. At least 60 Osages were murdered in the first half of the 1920's.

      The FBI was called in, but what finally stopped the carnage was when a law was passed that prevented anyone without provable Osage "blood" from inheriting an oil headright. Eventually the money tapered down to not enough to live on by itself, but the laws remain.

      And this is why I, as an adoptee raised in an Osage family, don't get to call myself Osage. I'm not on the rolls with my Father and his people, because once upon a time money was involved, and people in general are sociopathic assholes.

    15. Re:Another example of rigging the system by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      They're greedy because they believe they are entitled to everything for free and dishonest because they make excuses for why they shouldn't pay someone for the work which has been produced.

      That's an interesting assertion. Now please tell me a method of actually paying the artist for the stuff they provide. By all accounts if I buy their CD the money goes to a record exec who produces nothing and locked the content creator into a contract with a healthy amount of debt. Healthy for the record execs to have an excuse not to ever give them money that is.

      Now go ahead and tell everyone how I fell right into your trap and proved how greedy I am.

    16. Re:Another example of rigging the system by pr0fessor · · Score: 1

      Classic rock cover bands have that issue also, in order to play the venue has to have a license and they have to apply to all the various copyright holders. Where I live there are no cover bands because the local bar owners are back stabbers that report each other every time a band plays even if it's not a cover band and no covers where played and no copyrights violated.

    17. Re:Another example of rigging the system by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... the system itself appears rigged and gamed ...

      The whole point of free-market capitalism, the idea the USA's been pushing onto the rest of the planet for the last 40 years is, if you want something, someone, somewhere will sell it to you. So many movies can't be bought direct from the USA but have to be purchased through a licensed importer, who only buy licenses for the popular movies: If you want an unpopular movie, there's no seller / importer. So much for a free-market.

      Of course people will find their own supply. The media companies could respond by issuing licenses for their back-catalogs at a reduced price, or with zero-cost downloads, they could even license their back-catalog direct to the consumer. Instead they, they bitch the government needs to protect them for not selling stuff: Why aren't the shareholders screaming about all those lost sales?

      Then the media companies create region-locking, a violation of free-market laws in several countries. It could be used to standardize import licenses inside a region but is instead used to increase the price of those licenses, because the media companies have reduced the competition from other re-sellers.

      Copyright, a government-enforced monopoly is meant to be rewarded by the people gaining control of that intellectual property. That hasn't happened for 70 years in some countries.

      Copyright piracy applies to the selling of intellectual property, and that's how the laws are written. Media company lawyers have redefined it to include down-loaders and free distribution as a criminal offense, contrary to the written law.

      Media companies demand other companies assume the cost of protecting their property, mostly from the people now described by the new weasel-word, 'pirates', through 'name and shame' or 'three strike' procedures.

      In the USA, media companies can claim ownership of intellectual property that isn't theirs and profit from other artists' work: An act of both hypocrisy and fraud. This claim is available only to the big players; the individual artists have no voice even when the law says they do.

      Media companies are entitled to protect their property but not by ignoring their (potential) customers. What sort of business refuses to increase the sales of old inventory, especially when the cost of a sale is almost zero?

    18. Re:Another example of rigging the system by PingSpike · · Score: 1

      Amazon's website review system is quite irritating in general. One of the most annoying things they do is group multiple reviews for items with the same brand and category but different implementation or outright functionality together. It leaves you sorting through piles of completely irrelevant reviews if you even want to read them.

    19. Re:Another example of rigging the system by LienRag · · Score: 1

      Downloading is ethical not because it is free to the user, but because it is free to humanity - you create wealth as you copy, you don't take it from anybody.
      Yes, there is still the need to fund the initial creation, something the majors are notably inefficient at - that's why we have Patreon and Tippee and Kickstarter and such.
      Yes, crowdfunding creation is nowhere in scale yet in par with creation funding needs, but that's mostly because the MAFIAA has spent tons of money these last years trying to prevent an efficient economic model to emerge...

    20. Re:Another example of rigging the system by Rande · · Score: 1

      Or because I live in the wrong country and won't sell to me at any price short of negotiated license for the entire country.

      Well, technically, I could fly to that country, buy the hardcopy media, and then fly back, but that seems a little OTT.

  11. Agreed. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The click-farm pays only because the limit of money that can be farmed is higher than the amount each farm-account must pay to buy in to the service. Increase the granularity of tracking and pay distribution, and this problem is solved.

    Unfortunately, that increases complexity and overhead costs of implementation. It may be cheaper to work on ways of automatically detecting click farms and banning those accounts.

    1. Re:Agreed. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      They also mention that they are depublishing their book before it can be reported. Another easy solution is to delay royalty payments for 90 days and require the book to stay published for the entire duration just like they do with "stock vesting". If you or amazon pulls the book or it has too many complaints, etc... then you don't get the commission.

    2. Re:Agreed. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So now they automate complaints against the popular real books so their fake version seems better.

  12. Never understood why they do it that way... by Kjella · · Score: 2

    Never understood why they do it like SUM(pages read)/users instead of SUM(pages read/user). That way a bot reading 10000 pages doesn't matter, it'll still only distribute it's own subscription fee. Granted, it'd be a lot harder to audit since rates would differ slightly but surely you can have some independent audit verify that you're not skimming extra off the royalty pool.

    --
    Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    1. Re:Never understood why they do it that way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The real story to me is why anyone would buy a device that reports to some central database how many pages of which books they have read.

    2. Re:Never understood why they do it that way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Probably someone who wants casual access to 100,000 books for a nominal flat monthly fee.

    3. Re:Never understood why they do it that way... by suutar · · Score: 1

      because then when you go to a different device it knows where you left off.

  13. Why we can't have nice things by Moof123 · · Score: 1

    Yet another example of why we can't have nice things.

    1. Re:Why we can't have nice things by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      an author-exploiting, commercial for-profit, drm-laden, vendor-locked library is a "nice" thing? i suppose you think like anal sex with rusty crowbars wielded by hairy one-eye'd lumberjacks is "nice", too.. but to each his own, i guess.

  14. Not all word salad is spam by pincorrect · · Score: 1
    How to distinguish a garbage book generated to game the payment system from an unreadable book written by some earnest, but delusional and untalented author? And from those and, say, Finnegan's Wake?

    riverrun, past Eve and Adam’s, from swerve of shore to bend of bay, brings us by a commodius vicus of recirculation back to Howth Castle and Environs.

    Sir Tristram, violer d’amores, fr’over the short sea, had passen-core rearrived from North Armorica on this side the scraggy isthmus of Europe Minor to wielderfight his penisolate war: nor had topsawyer’s rocks by the stream Oconee exaggerated themselse to Laurens County’s gorgios while they went doublin their mumper all the time: nor avoice from afire bellowsed mishe mishe to tauftauf thuartpeatrick not yet, though venissoon after, had a kidscad buttended a bland old isaac: not yet, though all’s fair in vanessy, were sosie sesthers wroth with twone nathandjoe. Rot a peck of pa’s malt had Jhem or Shen brewed by arclight and rory end to the regginbrow was to be seen ringsome on the aquaface.

    Joyce had a big enough body of work to say he does not fall in the second category, but if this book came along today, how would you tell? Maybe this is the Kindle equivalent of comparing one of those paintings made by an elephant given a brush with "real" abstract art.

    1. Re:Not all word salad is spam by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Joyce had a big enough body of work to say he does not fall in the second category, but if this book came along today, how would you tell?

      By not being a blithering idiot.

    2. Re:Not all word salad is spam by neminem · · Score: 1

      Wow, that's actually from Finnegan's Wake? I kind of want to make one of those joke quiz sites now, where the quiz is: is this from Finnegan's Wake, or from spam I received in the past month? Cause I apparently can't tell the difference.

    3. Re:Not all word salad is spam by pincorrect · · Score: 1

      It's the first two paragraphs. I once used an emacs that had a command you could run, transmogrify text, that would temporarily turn your text into stream of consciousness style prose in the style of Finnegan's Wake.

  15. L Ron Hubbard ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Might be a prolific author, but doesn't write large fake books ...

    1. Re:L Ron Hubbard ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      .. because he's dead?

  16. Simple to fix by Khashishi · · Score: 1

    Seems like Amazon could simply analyze which books are generating revenue and pay authors of those books.

    1. Re:Simple to fix by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      With it being a subscription service, how exactly would you analyze which books are generating revenue?

  17. Pool of money - what a crock! by mhkohne · · Score: 1

    The 'pool of money' thing is a nasty bit of business anyway - it's horribly unfair to authors for Amazon to be deciding how much the lot of them will get to split, then effectively make them fight over it.

    This scam would only hurt Amazon (and thus give them an incentive to fix it fast) if it weren't for the pool of money concept. As it is, they don't have to do anything until enough real authors bail out that there's nothing good to read.

    --
    A thousand pounds of wood moving at 300 feet per minute. Don't get in the way.
  18. Failure of the design, not the implementation by Excelcia · · Score: 1

    This is a design failure, not an implementation failure. Buy a book, get a book. Nothing wrong with that paradigm. More and more vendors want to grind content down to finer and finer granules, as it ends up increasing their profit.

  19. Filter the sellers a bit by Karmashock · · Score: 1

    Have a fee to be listed on the unlimited program. Let anyone buy a book uploaded but if the author wants the book included in the unlimited package... require an additional fee which goes to have someone actually check the book out to make sure it isn't bullshit.

    And then have metrics in place where in the money from the unlimited program are held for a trial period if the author is unknown. If unusual metrics pop up... such as huge sales... possibly investigate again more closely. The money shouldn't be delayed more than a month or two for the trial period. Sales that explode immediately after the trial period would also be a red flag.

    --
    I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
  20. Solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The best soultion for this would prabably be to limit the impact a single subscriber can have on the distripution of the pool. Any daily reading from a scubscriber above, say, the equivalent of 50,000 words should be disregarded. That way, the cost of the subscription would be too high for the generated sliver of the pool.

  21. CFAA and other wire fraud statutes by tepples · · Score: 1

    There may be a violation of Amazon's T&Cs, but that's not the FBIs job to deal with.

    The Computer Fraud and Abuse Act (CFAA) and other wire fraud statutes give the FBI jurisdiction over TOS violations. You might have heard of the CFAA from the Aaron Swartz tragedy.

  22. Why can't such a band buy its own license? by tepples · · Score: 1

    Why can't a cover band in such an ASCAP desert buy its own portable license from the major performance rights organizations that covers any venue of a given size class that the band performs in?

    1. Re:Why can't such a band buy its own license? by pr0fessor · · Score: 1

      I don't know about ASCAP but BMI has a large amount of popular music and doesn't allow the band to license, they claim it's the venues responsibility. I've never played covers or if I did it was while in college and they took care of it.

      My brother is on an indie label and doesn't play covers, one of the bars is a decent size venue and is located near the highway and a hotel the local indies bring in a lot of touring indies and other signed artists to play there. This draws a crowd from in and out of town and the other bars either don't have the size or try to compete with cover bands.

  23. Choose a band that writes songs and isn't on big 3 by tepples · · Score: 1

    Two tips:

    1. Choose a band that writes its own songs. Such a band collects "publishing" royalties on the musical work in addition to royalties on the sound recording.
    2. Choose a band that isn't signed to a major record label, one that still owns its own recordings. Such a band collects a larger share of royalties on the sound recording, even if it does pay a distributor such as CD Baby.