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Mitsubishi Motors Pulls a Volkswagen; Shares Drop (reuters.com)

Posted by msmash on from the car-makers-lying,-again dept.

Reader Zane C. writes: The president of Japan's sixth largest auto corporation has admitted to manipulating test data on fuel economy (mileage test data) for 625,000 total eK Wagon and eK Space models, as well as the Dayz and Dayz Roox models produced for Nissan Motors. The tests overstated fuel efficiency by 5 percent to 10 percent. The offending models have been taken off the market until the problem is fixed, and foreign markets are being investigated for similar violations. Upon the announcement of the manipulations, Mitsubishi's stock dropped 15% and it lost 1.2 billion dollars in market value. The company apologized for the deception and said that it is investigating the employees involved. According to Mitsubishi, it was Nissan's in-house testers that discovered the discrepancy between the cars' published fuel efficiency data, and their real-life results. The affected models are sold exclusively in Japan.

39 of 61 comments (clear)

  1. Denial of emissions... by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 5, Funny

    He who articulated it, particulated it!

    --

    "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

  2. lol by Type44Q · · Score: 3, Funny

    Just the names of those models merits his ass stepping the hell down.

    1. Re:lol by TWX · · Score: 1, Informative

      At least it wasn't "Starion". Given that the smaller car was "Colt", you can probably guess what the car was actually supposed to be called...

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    2. Re: lol by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      Given that the smaller car was "Colt"

      Had an eighteen year old cousin (the first relative I ever smoked-up with) get killed in one of those little sardine tins...

    3. Re:lol by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 1

      The Japanese use English in very interesting ways that sound ridiculous to us.

      --
      Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
    4. Re:lol by justthinkit · · Score: 2

      Japanese words that are "English sounding" are part of their Katakana syllabary. For example, "ice cream" becomes 'Ai su' 'ku ri mu' or Aisu Kurimu.

      Beats the heck out of English where we expect people to remember how to pronounce words like 'rendezvous' even though it only makes sense with French intonation and thus ends up yet another exception.

      In thinking a bit further about this, given that we no longer teach syllabic pronunciation in American public schools, and Americans are plummeting down the intelligence curve, whereas Japanese are among the smartest and certainly most well-read in the world, maybe there is merit in insisting that words fit within the "two characters per kana" systems of hiragana and katakana.

      --
      I come here for the love
    5. Re:lol by kimvette · · Score: 1

      Yeah we get the joke... but it's not true. It's a portmanteau of "Star" and "Orion" and "Arion" (a mythological horse).

      --
      The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
    6. Re:lol by arglebargle_xiv · · Score: 1

      Japanese words that are "English sounding" are part of their Katakana syllabary. For example, "ice cream" becomes 'Ai su' 'ku ri mu' or Aisu Kurimu.

      It's not Katakana syllabary, it's Katana syllabary. You take an English word, you chop it up with a Katana, and then you glue the remains back together to get the Japanese form.

  3. They all did by hawguy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Clearly all of the manufacturers used similar tricks, that's why they didn't point the finger at VW earlier. I'm sure they all knew about it since VW had such good emissions and fuel economy that the other manufacturers must have done tests and tear downs of their own to figure out how VW did it. But no one wanted to rock the boat and invite more scrutiny from regulators.

    1. Re: They all did by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      But no one wanted to rock the boat and invite more scrutiny from regulators.

      Benz might've had motive to; they were apparently forced to incorporate expensive "cow-piss-injection" and particulate filters..

    2. Re:They all did by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 2

      This. It was a reporter who "busted" the story. If people think the Big Three are gonne get out of this scott free, guess again. That's why hypergiant penalties on VW won't happen.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    3. Re:They all did by Aighearach · · Score: 4, Informative

      There is actually very little that is similar between this and what Volkswagen did. It is like saying that a shoplifter "pulls a Blackbeard" or something. In this case, they lied about their fuel economy to increase sales. In the other case, they sold cars with completely illegal emissions and built them to detect an emissions test and cheat on it.

      Your claim about "no one wanted to rock the boat" is horse shit. The regulators who uncovered the VW cheat have been testing other manufacturers too, and nobody else appears to be doing that thing. The reason that nobody pointed the finger at VW is that they don't all buy competitors cars and road test the emissions. They test things like comfort and performance of competitors, they don't attempt to re-create all their regulatory compliance. They spend that money on their own compliance! That testing is expensive, and they don't really benefit from it. Performance testing of competitors they do benefit from, because it is more likely to lead to engineering insights.

    4. Re:They all did by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      N2O is laughing gas. NO2 is entirely not laughing gas. Learn your chemistry, you slashdotters!

    5. Re:They all did by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      [Other co's in on it] This is conjecture. Come back when you have data.

      I made a similar speculation in a VW-cheat /. story about half a year ago. Here's the logic again:

      Car co's are practically obligated to study competitors' systems because a lot of engineering resources are spent on pollution control. I hear diff estimates, but roughly 1/3 to 1/2 the parts and complexity in an engine are devoted to pollution control.

      Before you spend tens or hundreds of millions implementing and/or manufacturing a system, you want to know how your competitors did it first. You'd be stupid NOT to.

      It's very unlikely that NONE of VW's competitors know about their shortcuts. You could argue that one or two competitors perhaps were clueless and lazy, skipping an obvious step, but not all of them. That's just too unlikely. The chance of all the car co's being lackadaisical on the same issue in the same way is a statistical long-shot.

      And if they knew about it, they'd either feel obligated to copy the tricks to compete, or rat on VW. Since we know they didn't rat, they probably did the first option.

      I'm sure they rolled around "what if we get caught" in their minds. Since other co's are in on it, they'd figure the competitors would be in the same boat when caught such that it would only marginally affect the company since it will hit all co's roughly equally in the longer run.

      Somebody is going to be making cars because new mass car co's cannot be started up quickly. Thus, the same co's would still be in business making about the same amount of cars even if all are punished. They'll just pass the punishment fees onto the consumer, and they can still compete doing that because all the major car co's are paying roughly the same penalty.

      It's roughly comparable to fans or rioters flooding the sports arena before the game is finished. If only a handful do it, they know they'll be fully busted. However, if hundreds or thousands do it, the chance of getting caught is low and/or the jails and courts don't have room for that many such that they'll get a lighter sentence.

      Occam's Razor is that they knew and followed suit, at least to some degree. I welcome an alternative realistic scenario to the one I offered.

      --
      Table-ized A.I.
    6. Re:They all did by Golden_Rider · · Score: 1

      Clearly all of the manufacturers used similar tricks, that's why they didn't point the finger at VW earlier. I'm sure they all knew about it since VW had such good emissions and fuel economy that the other manufacturers must have done tests and tear downs of their own to figure out how VW did it. But no one wanted to rock the boat and invite more scrutiny from regulators.

      True. Ever wondered why after the whole VW scandal became known - even though it would be such an excellent thing to capitalize on - none of the other car manufacturers did any large advertising campaigns in which they said "buy our cars, we do not cheat"? This is why. Keep a low profile and nobody will take a closer look at your own cars.

    7. Re:They all did by EEPROMS · · Score: 1

      Actually Im wondering why everyone is getting upset over VW playing the software to get around emissions regulations. Emission Recall NISSAN ID: R1408 ECM REPROGRAM 2009 NISSAN ROGUE 2.5 AWD VIN: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX EFFECTIVE DATE: October 06, 2014 Summary Some high mileage vehicles may experience higher than expected exhaust gas temperatures, leading to increased tailpipe emissions. Remedy Nissan dealers will reprogram the Engine Control Modules (ECMs) of affected vehicles.

    8. Re:They all did by kybred · · Score: 1

      Twice the oxigen? That's even better!

      No, oxygen is a component of hydrogen hydroxide of which a teacup full can cause death! And the solid form can put your eye out!

    9. Re:They all did by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Clearly all of the manufacturers used similar tricks, that's why they didn't point the finger at VW earlier.

      Yes and no. The manufacturers have a long history of not badmouthing one another outside of racing, with only limited exceptions. But yes, all or at least many manufacturers have diddled the emissions systems in the past, and it would be surprising to learn that only one of them (Audi, VW etc. being one company, after all) was doing it now when the regulations are, as usual, stricter than ever.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    10. Re:They all did by BlueStrat · · Score: 1

      Clearly all of the manufacturers used similar tricks, that's why they didn't point the finger at VW earlier.

      The reason why those standards for diesels are so high is because US auto makers could not market a decent enough quality diesel passenger car at a sufficiently-low price with the performance Americans demand, and so these standards were put in place to attempt to prevent foreign companies from competing in the US diesel passenger car market.

      You hear US auto companies scream about CAFE standards for gasoline vehicles anytime talk of raising those standards comes up, but were and are strangely silent about diesel passenger car standards.

      This is mainly why. It's more to do with limiting competition than anything else.

      Strat

      --
      Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
    11. Re:They all did by toddestan · · Score: 1

      Don't you think that the engineers who had to install expensive urea and similar systems in their vehicles to meet emissions might just be a bit curious how VW could sell cars without those systems?

    12. Re:They all did by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      No. Most of the affected cars had those systems too. The engineers probably presumed that they were using more of it.

      And to the extent that "engineers [were] curious" I would expect them to be curious about lots of things that other companies do that they were not being paid money by their employers to reverse-engineer. If the company was interested, it would more likely be in the form of trying to license the technology, not in trying to reverse-engineer stuff that will all turn out to have had patents-pending. It just doesn't happen in a mature patent-rich environment with a limited number of mostly-large companies. Those engineers work on their jobs, not their curiosities.

  4. Re:The ONLY apology accepted is by TWX · · Score: 1, Funny

    WOW! WHAT a HIT! I haven't seen a play like THAT since the last time the CUBS won the PENNANT!

    --
    Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
  5. Re:The ONLY apology accepted is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Harakiri

  6. Dayz and Dayz Roox by Nutria · · Score: 1

    Who the hell thinks up these names? And who the hell buys them???

    --
    "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
    1. Re:Dayz and Dayz Roox by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      Japanese?

  7. Re:Ouch by jellomizer · · Score: 2

    Also VW had a big marketing campaign showing how Clean Diesel was so much more better than Hybrid cars. Touting their superior gas mileage and green creds, vs those lame priuses. Showing VW was just flat lying about it, despite a full marketing hype. Mitsubishi, at least in America, may had posted fuel economy, but they weren't doing their big sales push because of it.

    --
    If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
  8. Re:Ouch by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

    The Evo is still relatively cheep for its performance. It's not like the 3000gt or Eclipse were cheep cars, at least not the ones you wanted.

    --
    John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  9. Big Difference by Thelasko · · Score: 1

    There's a big difference between Mitsubishi and Volkswagen. Volkswagen spent an incredible amount of time and money developing software to defeat the test. Mitsubishi increased tire pressures.

    --
    One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
  10. Re:Ouch by mspohr · · Score: 2

    In addition to up to 35x higher NOx emissions, VW also admitted that CO2 and fuel consumption were not reported accurately (i.e. they lied).
    I guess you will only care about NOx if you get lung cancer, asthma, emphysema or heart disease.
    Wikipedia has a good write-up on the problems:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    --
    I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
  11. Is KIA involved? by JimSadler · · Score: 1

    KIAs seem to be selling quite well. I wonder if they also are involved in this affair.

  12. Wrong company.. by Ancil · · Score: 1

    Actually, it would be more accurate to say they "Pulled a Hyunadia," i.e., overstated mileage.

    Volkswagon's mileage data was correct; they were just spewing pollutants.

  13. VW must be thrilled by TsuruchiBrian · · Score: 1

    Now that Mitsubishi is in the limelight for being the latest car company to pull a Volkswagen... oh wait...

  14. Not a VW by sunking2 · · Score: 1

    A Hyandi/Kia. Both were found guilty of this and both ended up paying like $300/car. Hardly their demise

  15. I'm not surprised... by kimvette · · Score: 1

    I'm not surprised.
    Mitsubishi has been phoning it in since the '90s where their Automotive division is concerned.

    They used to make very nice vehicles - and Chrysler used to import them branded as Chrysler/Dodge/Plymouth models (Galant -> Dodge Challenger/Plymouth Sapporo - a very nice car for the time, then the Dodge Colt, Dodge's compact pickup trucks, etc.) and then the DiamondStar partnership was struck. Then they came out with the Starion which was a nice 2+2 "sports" car (a ponycar really) and marketed by Chrysler as the Dodge and Plymouth Conquest, Then came the 3000GT/Stealth and the Eclipse. Then Mitsubishi quit caring about their auto segment - quality dropped, they killed the sportscars, and they started parading the non-turbo FWD Eclipse as a serious sportscar (despite inferior performance and crappy handling), and they have been getting worse ever since, and dealerships have been abandoning the brand for makes that actually provide dealer support.

    That they're not putting money into actual performance efficiency and emission controls and are instead cheating the system through ECU trickery and/or delivering "ringers" for certification testing doesn't surprise me at all.

    If I could trade Mitsubishi's existence for any number of extinct marques (Saab, Studebaker/Avanti, Oldsmobile, Pontiac, Saturn, AMC, De Tomaso Modena, Fisker, or heck, even Plymouth (with a product line distinct from Dodge's, like they used to have up through the mid-'70s - the Roadrunner/Satellite was sweet for a musclecar) I would trade for any one of the others to make a return, because Mitsubishi is an automaker that truly deserves to go under.

    --
    The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
    1. Re:I'm not surprised... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Then came the 3000GT/Stealth and the Eclipse. Then Mitsubishi quit caring about their auto segment - quality dropped, they killed the sportscars, and they started parading the non-turbo FWD Eclipse as a serious sportscar (despite inferior performance and crappy handling), and they have been getting worse ever since, and dealerships have been abandoning the brand for makes that actually provide dealer support.

      You forgot the Evo. I mean, it's gone now, right? But no one can argue that it wasn't a serious performance vehicle.

      If I could trade Mitsubishi's existence for any number of extinct marques (Saab, Studebaker/Avanti, Oldsmobile, Pontiac, Saturn, AMC, De Tomaso Modena, Fisker, or heck, even Plymouth (with a product line distinct from Dodge's, like they used to have up through the mid-'70s - the Roadrunner/Satellite was sweet for a musclecar)

      And it was built on the same platform as other Chryslers, and the Dodges were available with a broader, better range of engines.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  16. Re:The ONLY apology accepted is by davester666 · · Score: 1

    Whoosh!

    The OP is saying the management of Mitsubishi should spend several days listen to Harry Carry expound on the virtues of the 10 commandments and how they apply to corporations.

    --
    Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
  17. Dayz by ThatsNotPudding · · Score: 1

    ...as well as the Dayz and Dayz Roox

    However, they went on to stress that the 'Chicken 4 Dayz' model is unaffected.

  18. Re:I don't get it by kilfarsnar · · Score: 1

    No one expects it!

    --
    "What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
  19. Re:Ouch by toddestan · · Score: 1

    No, he's referring to the Eagle Talon and Summit, which were cars made by Mitsubishi and sold under the Eagle brand.