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Steam Computer Gaming Network Now Accepting Bitcoin (fortune.com)

Posted by msmash on from the bitcoin-refuses-to-die dept.

An anonymous reader shares an article on Fortune Magazine: The popular Steam computer game network has started accepting bitcoin in a move aimed at making it easier for players in countries like Brazil and China to make payments. Bitcoin transactions will be integrated into game shopping from Steam, which is owned by Valve Software and claims over 100 million users worldwide. Users will be able to use any bitcoin wallet to scan and pay for games or other items without revealing sensitive financial information via software from Bitpay.

54 comments

  1. finally, proper use! by astrodoom · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Simple international payments for a product that doesn't require instant confirmation. Exactly what the technology was designed for! Well done, Steam.

    1. Re: finally, proper use! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

      What an odd way to describe terrorism...

    2. Re: finally, proper use! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      terrorism exists, so technological progress is not allowed

    3. Re: finally, proper use! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm getting real tired of you idiots.

    4. Re:finally, proper use! by astrodoom · · Score: 0

      From TFA: “While more users are coming online in in these countries, traditional payment options like credit cards often aren’t available.” Great job making a completely invalid point.

    5. Re: finally, proper use! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is not progress.

    6. Re:finally, proper use! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How do you think those users in Brazil and China were buying their Steam games before Valve started accepting bitcoin? Seashells? You're not big on critical thinking, are you?

    7. Re:finally, proper use! by astrodoom · · Score: 1

      You're not big on reading, are you? Steam identified payment as a problem, so apparently they weren't buying the games or were having significant trouble doing so.

    8. Re: finally, proper use! by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Then what is it?

      Technology has always been abused for evil, from the time the first club was made to make hunting bears possible and Urk found out that it could be used to bash in Kruk's head. By your logic the invention of gunpowder, explosives, carpet knives and airplanes was evil because without, 9/11 could not have happened.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    9. Re:finally, proper use! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're not big on reading, are you? Steam identified payment as a problem, so apparently they weren't buying the games or were having significant trouble doing so.

      Sure, I read TFA. What I read were quotes from a Bitpay executive telling a nice little story about how his service was going to relieve all this pent up demand for Steam games. The difference between you and me is that I read these claims with a degree of skepticism, while you swallowed them whole.

      Let's take a closer look together, shall we? You're saying that Valve had all these existing Steam accounts set up, but there were no game purchases using them. These accounts have been in existence for months or even years with no purchase activity. So, Valve thought that if they just started accepting bitcoin, these account holders would magically start making purchases. Valve then contacted bitpay, now all these dormant accounts have come alive with activity. Is that your story? Have I got all that right???

      Do you have the critical thinking skills necessary to play this scenario through to the end, or do you need to be spoon-fed the rest?

    10. Re:finally, proper use! by cfalcon · · Score: 1

      The point is that MORE users will be able to buy Steam games now. I think it's interesting that Bitcoin is somehow the best way to make this happen, but it doesn't seem out of line. Certainly, Bitcoins are suited about as well as they can be for buying Steam stuff. Bitcoin suffers from a bunch of problems that don't really hit this type of purchase.

    11. Re: finally, proper use! by gweihir · · Score: 1

      That must be the most idiotic comment I have read for a long time. Well done!

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    12. Re:finally, proper use! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Fun fact:

      There are over 400 free-to-play games available on Steam (including DOTA 2 and Team Fortress 2). It's not hard to imagine that some portion of users who are unable to acquire a credit card (or unwilling to trust Valve with credit card information) and are currently only playing F2P games would expand their Steam library to include paid titles using bitcoin.

    13. Re:finally, proper use! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How many MORE users are there on Steam that have been sitting around not buying anything because the only way they have to process a transaction is with bitcoin? Who are these users that can afford a gaming rig and internet access and have created an account with Valve and haven't had a way to buy games until now? This scenario doesn't add up.

      Sorry, accepting bitcoin isn't going to make measurable difference in Valve's revenue. In fact, I bet it was Bitpay that "reached out" Valve, not the other way around. This is good news for Bitpay, but for Valve...meh.

    14. Re:finally, proper use! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Say, that is a fun fact!

      But what IS hard to imagine is that "some portion of users" who can 1) afford a gaming rig, 2) afford internet access, 3) afford a bank account, 4) afford to purchase bitcoin, 5) afford to carry the exchange rate risk of holding bitcoin, 6) can't afford a credit card, 7) can't use Paypal, and 8) only have a Steam account to play free games...that there are enough of these edge case users sitting around to budge Valve's revenue a measurable amount now that Steam accepts bitcoin.

    15. Re:finally, proper use! by astrodoom · · Score: 3, Informative

      "And with the way Bitcoin works now, one can easily scam Steam out of a sale, play the game and beat it in a couple of days, reverse the transaction, get banned, repeat with new account and wallet, and Steam will never be able to stop them." The reversing of transactions is only possible for zero-confirmation transactions. That's ~10 minutes you have to beat the game, not a couple days.

    16. Re:finally, proper use! by astrodoom · · Score: 1
      "The difference between you and me is that I read these claims with a degree of skepticism, while you swallowed them whole."

      No, the difference between you and me is that I don't insert strawmen into an argument. The situation you tried to claim was easier (paying with a credit card) is not the situation they were trying to address. I pointed that out, and now you're trying to back-pedal.

      Steam is accepting Bitcoin, so apparently they thought it would be beneficial in addition to their current payment options. You can go claiming it's not beneficial as much as you want, but Steam apparently disagrees with you.

    17. Re:finally, proper use! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >Sorry, accepting bitcoin isn't going to make measurable difference in Valve's revenue

      https://www.ted.com/talks/malcolm_gladwell_on_spaghetti_sauce?language=en

      Yes, Valve could just keep offering a single choice that has a buy rate of 99.999% of customers, but an unknown satisfaction rate. They could just keep risking it all on Cash. I mean, it's worked for all this time, so why not, right? Hell, you could just sit there and try to perfect Cash. Try MasterCard, Visa, Paypal, Swift, etc, etc. One of them has to be the golden nugget that raises satisfaction to 100% because everyone obviously really wants to use Cash, desperately. Everyone.

      So why not continue? Because someday someone else will offer flavours... sorry... other currencies. And if you're stuck with just Cash and find out the maximum satisfaction rate for cash is 20%, you just lost a lot of your customers overnight, because for those customers while they kept buying with Cash when that's all you offered, each click was secretly accompanied with "Ugh, that damn credit card again, I hate this"

      Or you could take a chance on something that costs almost nothing to implement and see if maybe your satisfaction rate increases and thus your churn rate decreases. But who am I kidding, for a company as tiny as Valve it's just not worth the petty cash. They should grow a little and become a bigger player in the field first, right? //sarcasm

    18. Re:finally, proper use! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, the difference between you and me is that I don't insert strawmen into an argument. The situation you tried to claim was easier (paying with a credit card) is not the situation they were trying to address. I pointed that out, and now you're trying to back-pedal.

      LOL, what strawman is that, and what are you making out my original claim to be?

      Buying stuff on Steam with bitcoin isn't any easier than buying stuff on Steam using Paypal/Visa/ACH whatever. In fact, it's arguably harder for Steam customers to transact in bitcoin. That was my original claim, and I stand by it.

      You are the one claiming that Valve felt they had a problem with customers who had Steam accounts, but couldn't buy any games because they were without credit cards. Guess what? There is not a single quote from a Valve executive in TFA that supports that position. The Bitpay exec would really like you to believe that they solved this nagging, persistent problem for Valve, and his claim that Valve "reached out" to Bitpay for help in unleashing all this pent up demand for bitcoin purchases simply doesn't pass the sniff test.

    19. Re:finally, proper use! by HaZardman27 · · Score: 1

      Yeah this AC seems to either hate Steam, cryptocurrency, or both.

      Maybe this will turn out to do nothing for Valve's bottom line, but I feel relatively safe making the assumption that Valve had some amount of data which would suggest this can increase sales. Or, maybe some people at Valve are just fans of cryptocurrency and had enough clout to get Steam to support it. Either way, it means nothing to me since I neither use cryptocurrency nor intend to do so in the foreseeable future. All of this leads to me giving exactly zero fucks about this development, and I can't fathom why AC is so angry about it.

      --
      Apparently wizard is not a legitimate career path, so I chose programmer instead.
    20. Re:finally, proper use! by HaZardman27 · · Score: 1

      I'd be interested in how Valve's return policy is going to work with Bitcoin. Will it be based on the value of bitcoin at the time of purchase, or the value of bitcoin at the time of the refund? You can sit on a game for up to 14 days and get a refund for it, as long as you don't play it for over 2 hours during that time. Cryptocurrencies have fluctuated great deals in that period of time before. If they decide to refund the Bitcoin amount of the purchase, then people could use this as a short-term investment scam. Buy some games if you think the price of Bitcoin will jump in the next two weeks, get refunded for more valuable Bitcoins than you spent.

      --
      Apparently wizard is not a legitimate career path, so I chose programmer instead.
    21. Re:finally, proper use! by cfalcon · · Score: 1

      > How many MORE users are there on Steam that have been sitting around not buying anything because the only way they have to process a transaction is with bitcoin?

      Well, probably at least one. But that's not really the question, is it? If I accept A, B, C, and D, and you can only pay with E, F, and G, you'll be happy if I implement E, F, or G.

      I'm sure if there was no market for it all, they wouldn't have done it. So presumably it it worth it, to some measure.

    22. Re:finally, proper use! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Zero fucks? You must have given enough of a fuck to come by and post your feelings on the matter.

      In any case maybe AC is angry because his original (and true) observation got modded down.

    23. Re:finally, proper use! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm sure if there was no market for it all, they wouldn't have done it.

      The market opportunity here was for Bitpay, not Valve. And guess what? You don't hear anyone at Valve talking about what a great deal this is going to be for them. All the horn blowing is coming from Bitpay.

    24. Re:finally, proper use! by astrodoom · · Score: 0

      Yah know what, you're actually right. I was thinking of the normal "race to the goal" zero confirmation attack, but you could theoretically stretch it a bit. I apologize. However, it's pretty easy to detect if someone is attempting this longer time period attack, and the payment processors should be able to incorporate that logic fairly simply. The ones that don't will almost certainly be out of business quickly.

    25. Re:finally, proper use! by Khyber · · Score: 1

      " However, it's pretty easy to detect if someone is attempting this longer time period attack,"

      Not really. The current state of bitcoin is such that detecting this among people not paying the speedy transaction fee is next to impossible. Keep the blockchain busy enough and you're able to stretch this out a couple of weeks or more.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    26. Re:finally, proper use! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But not paying a speedy transaction fee is itself trivial to detect. Recipients can see how much of a fee you're offering and how long it's been in the mempool without confirmation. The blockchain is already 100% busy so users need to stop assuming that any transaction sent will necessarily get included in a block. I'm sure BitPay is aware of this; the arguments among bitcoin wizards have been very heated this year.

      That's a weak short-term fix, though. The right way to fix this of course is with child-pays-for-parent and the Lightning Network - even with unlimited block sizes, LN provides secure (already confirmed) instant transactions.

      Could you elaborate what type of individual/organization is falling for your friends' attacks? I'm just curious who thinks "yep it's in the mempool I'll trust it completely!"

    27. Re:finally, proper use! by Maritz · · Score: 1

      Classic argument from personal incredulity.

      Is it really that surprising to you that a business would want to accept payment via as many methods as possible?

      --
      I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
    28. Re:finally, proper use! by Maritz · · Score: 1

      That's an interesting point. Perhaps Steam will state an equivalent currency value at the time of purchase and then only refund the equivalent of that in Bitcoin.

      --
      I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
    29. Re:finally, proper use! by HaZardman27 · · Score: 1

      My "fuck to give" was about AC's crybaby tantrum, not about Valve's decision to accept Bitcoin.

      --
      Apparently wizard is not a legitimate career path, so I chose programmer instead.
    30. Re:finally, proper use! by Khyber · · Score: 1

      Steam is falling for it already.

      Plenty of drug dealers are falling for the attack.

      Many bitcoin ATMs are currently vulnerable.

      It's easy money theft right now. Bitcoin is (has always been) completely untrustable.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
  2. First they mocked us... by 110010001000 · · Score: 1

    First they mocked us...now Bitcoin is accepted everywhere! Even in apps!

    1. Re:First they mocked us... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      We still mock you

    2. Re:First they mocked us... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are these the apps that app apps? Are they safe for cows?? ...hot grits...

    3. Re:First they mocked us... by Ash-Fox · · Score: 1

      Please, you're still being mocked.

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
    4. Re:First they mocked us... by jbssm · · Score: 1

      First they mocked us...now Bitcoin is accepted everywhere! Even in apps!

      Some people have a very limited concept of "everywhere".

  3. Money Laundering by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This will make money laundering easier than ever!

    Accept money for drugs in bitcoin, wash the bitcoin through a tumbler, buy Steam games as gifts, sell steam games on eBay for clean dollars of your choice. Easy peasy.

    1. Re:Money Laundering by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      I dunno, that sounds incredibly convoluted. Say what you want, that doesn't really come close to the ease of use of a Panama account.

      Although, one has to admit, it takes probably a bit more than a few bucks to do this.

      So yes, I agree. Money laundering should be kept in the hands of the experts, not something every little asshole with a few bucks can do!

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:Money Laundering by gweihir · · Score: 1

      With the amount of money you can "launder" this way, just moving cash would be significantly easier.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
  4. Steam/Valve are not accepting Bitcoin by YesIAmAScript · · Score: 4, Informative

    Bitpay is. Valve will continue to accept only actual money. Bitpay will provide a service (for a fee) of turning your bitcoin into the actual money that Valve demands.

    --
    http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
    1. Re:Steam/Valve are not accepting Bitcoin by grnbrg · · Score: 2, Informative

      Well, I hate to break this to you, but Steam isn't accepting your "actual money", either.

      Your bank will provide a service (for a fee) of taking your "actual money" and provides another service (for a fee) of turning that money into an electronic ledger entry that Paypal (or Mastercard or Visa) accept and then they will provide yet another another service (for another fee) of taking that electronic ledger entry, and giving it to Valve.

      Cash for internet purchases virtually never happens. One or more intermediaries are always involved. Virtual dollars and virtual bitcoins each have their pros and cons.

    2. Re:Steam/Valve are not accepting Bitcoin by Paco103 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      A fee of 1%, which is half or less of what a traditional credit card fee charges. Steam/Valve don't accept Credit Cards either. Visa, Mastercard, Maestro, etc will provide a service (for a fee) of turning your credit card number into the actual money that Valve demands.

      What's your point? All currency exchange is just agreed upon IOU's for goods or services. This is just one more that opens up new markets to them as well as decreases processing fees for them if existing customers jump on it.

    3. Re:Steam/Valve are not accepting Bitcoin by gox · · Score: 3, Informative

      What goes on is conceptually same with paying with Norwegian krone, except that I do not have to keep Bitcoin in a custodial service in order to pay online.

      Whether they want to keep some krone or bitcoin around is a matter of accounting. Valve probably doesn't have operational costs they can pay with Bitcoin, but other firms might (hosting, domain registration and whatnot).

    4. Re:Steam/Valve are not accepting Bitcoin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      His point is that he doesn't like bitcoin so it's less "actual" than dollars that haven't been backed by gold since the 70's.

    5. Re:Steam/Valve are not accepting Bitcoin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The point being made is that valve only accepts state-issued currency denominations, not the system used to process it.

    6. Re:Steam/Valve are not accepting Bitcoin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Right. Valve also doesn't accept Euros, Kroner, Pesos, Bhat, or Dinar because they get transferred into USD (or "actual money" as you put it).

      You think multi-national companies want to have 30 different currencies, and then re-spend them? Of course not. They deal with changing money all the time. Bitcoin isn't any different.

    7. Re:Steam/Valve are not accepting Bitcoin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1


      The point being made is that valve only accepts state-issued currency denominations,

      That's a direct contradiction of the article. Are you saying that if I go to the Steam website, there won't be a payment method that says bitcoin?
      That's my standard for "accepting bitcoin". Just like having a Visa payment method on the website would be my standard for "accepting Visa". Valve doesn't actually process anything, they leave that to a third party. Sometimes the merchants don't even get your credit card details at all, but just get deposits in USD in their bank account.

      The point is, this is exactly the same thing.

    8. Re:Steam/Valve are not accepting Bitcoin by DRJlaw · · Score: 1

      Steam/Valve don't accept Credit Cards either.

      Better tell that to Steam. They've sold me a couple dozen games while not accepting my Discover card, and their client software even stores the rejected card information for subsequent purchases despite their refusal to to accept it.

      Man, the 194000 people who accessed this support page will be pissed.

  5. Re:Bernie Sanders: Warmonger by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Amusingly enough that makes me happy to see. Most of the other foreign policy stuff I've seen from him has been dangerously naive.

  6. Re:Bernie Sanders: Warmonger by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's good to admit your fascism.