Ask Slashdot: Should I Expect Tracking When Subscribing To News Sites?

Long-time Slashdot reader robot5x writes: I'm a fan of online privacy and, where possible, don't automatically permit cookies and tend to set Ghostery to block all trackers in my browser. This rarely causes a problem -- I have lots of subscriptions to various sites which require me to login and have only rarely encountered minor issues. Recently I had a present of a Slate Plus membership. I really like their content and was keen on supporting it financially. Activating it from the email they sent required me to first register as a user. I clicked on the icon, and nothing happened. Ghostery picked up 7 trackers which I had blocked.

Assuming that one of these was the cause, I activated each in turn and reloaded. None of them made any difference, except a single tracker from JanRain. Accepting this tracker let everything work perfectly. Reading more about JanRain though -- and particularly its interaction with Adobe analytics (which it also tries to load) -- I discovered that they wanted to "create a holistic view of your business by collecting, analyzing and reporting all customer interactions. To derive the most actionable insights, you must link your customers' actions with who they are and what their interests are. Janrain bridges the gap by connecting demographic and psychographic data, collected through traditional and social login, with Adobe's behavioral data, so you understand the whole customer journey".

I do not want them to do any of this, and don't think I should have to. Interactions with Slate's 'support' were excruciating and -- while they at least didn't ask me to restart my computer -- they actually ended up saying that allowing these trackers is tied to their login process and I have to either accept or get a refund.
Robot 5x asks: Is it unacceptable to have to accept being tracked as a paying customer for new sites? "Or am I just being a big baby?"

Comments

We should never expect or accept tracking

[Anonymous Coward]

If anything, subscribing should be a way to avoid tracking. Preferably, we shouldn't be tracked at all and subscribing should eliminate animated GIF banner ads and text ads. How can I be confident that the tracking scripts aren't also installing malware? Speaking of which, I also seem to remember that Slashdot serves up scripts from Janrain. Why is Slashdot participating in the tracking? Posting stories critical of tracking while serving up ads that track us is hypocrisy. I block those scripts and frequently change IPs to try to defeat that nonsense.

Re:We should never expect or accept tracking

[chipschap]

Why is Slashdot participating in the tracking?

Glancing at Ghostery, it's blocking 7 trackers. AdBlock Plus is blocking 3 elements. Right here on Slashdot.

Re:We should never expect or accept tracking

[FrankHaynes]

It's not the tracking so much these days as the threat of malvertising. In the past I objected to advertising because they use my bandwidth and my cpu to do their dirty work for them.

But now the dirty work includes serving up malware via automated advertising servers, so there is more reason than ever to block ads.

I'd be happy to pay legitimate sites that I find worthwhile as long as that exempts me from ALL advertising served by their site and their "trusted" partners.

Re: We should never expect or accept tracking

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree with your conclusion. I consider the tracking to be nearly as evil as malvertising.

Tell problem is what happens when tracking information gets matched up with a name and address in the real world. Let's say insurance companies get access to that information; they sure wouldn't be above using your browsing history to charge you higher rates. Perhaps that information becomes part of a background check for employers to determine if you're a risk to them in some way. Third parties don't need to be trying to record my browsing history and link it to me. That information will be used against people eventually.

Re:We should never expect or accept tracking

[BarbaraHudson]

So they're going to "build up a profile on you." BFD. What are they going to do with it? Either sell it to advertisers, or sell you stuff. Unless you're someone who goes "oh shiny - must have" it doesn't affect you, and if advertising affects you that much, you have bigger problems. REALLY bigger problems.

Re: We should never expect or accept tracking

[Anonymous Coward]

That's a really short-sighted view. Let's say that can be linked to a name and address in the real world, perhaps through your billing information or from social media. It's entirely possible that insurance companies might use that data to assess risk and raise rates. Or perhaps that information could be used in background checks by employers. It's really short-sighted to assume that information will never be used against you in the real world.

Re:We should never expect or accept tracking

[Anonymous Coward]

So they're going to "build up a profile on you." BFD.

It might be a BFD for someone who's trans but not quite as out about it as you are. Slate for example has no business building a demographic and "psychographic," whatever that is, dossier about me, unless I specifically tell them the information.

Re: We should never expect or accept tracking

[BarbaraHudson]

I've use use my real name, so they already have it. I've also posted my address and smartphone number on the web in a few places when SJWs (especially that phony Brianna Wu) started whining about "OMG They have my address! and a picture of where I live!" crap.

The new generation is a bunch of gutless wonders. Used to be that everyone received a new book every year with everyone's name, address, and phone number and nobody freaked out.

Re:We should never expect or accept tracking

[bmimatt]

uBlock blocks all 10. HTH

Re: We should never expect or accept tracking

[Anonymous Coward]

Because you've chosen to give up your privacy doesn't give you the right to make that decision for the rest of us. You're correct that names, addresses, and phone numbers were once published in phone books. However, that didn't include information about my interests or browsing history, nor did it facilitate obtaining that information about me. Perhaps we should have been more concerned about privacy then, too. Some people did opt for unlisted phone numbers, even then. But why would anyone oppose more privacy by default?

Re:We should never expect or accept tracking

[fahrbot-bot]

Why is Slashdot participating in the tracking?

Glancing at Ghostery, it's blocking 7 trackers. AdBlock Plus is blocking 3 elements. Right here on Slashdot.

And what's with all the freaking third-party Javascript on /. (including the aforementioned janrain) -- seems to be more Javascript now that they've been bought out. I've got NoScript blocking the below and Disconnect reporting 4 advertising requests and 25 Google content requests. What the hell /. Why is all this crap necessary?

• googletagservices.com
• crsspxl.com
• ntv.io
• rpxnow.com
• d3ezI4ajpp2zy8.cloudfront.net
• truste.com
• taboola.com
• janrain.com
• stacksocial.com
• slashdotmedia.com
• pro-market.net

Re:We should never expect or accept tracking

[Anonymous Coward]

And that's the kind of response we can expect from the people that gave up long ago.

I remember seeing people get pissed off about advertising that they originally didn't care about getting tracked for, until it started placing advertisements to very embarrassing things where family/friends/etc could see. I'm not talking porn-embarrassing. I'm talking medical-embarrassing. Things that happen to people occasionally, but they don't like shouting about it in the streets.

And every tracker is also a potential malware delivery system if they get themselves hacked. It's happened to the biggest and the best already. Nobody should assume it can't happen.

To the original submitter I'll say this. You wanted to support this site financially. This is what they want to do to those who want to give them money. Do you want to give that kind of person money? Personally, I'd tell them to go fuck themselves and get the refund. I'd assume you were able to read their site anyway without being a member, otherwise you wouldn't have been a fan of theirs to begin with.

Consider it a matter of respect. They aren't respecting your privacy. They're doing it on purpose for their own benefit. If enough people were as intelligent as you to be thinking about both your privacy and security on the internet, that site will either go bankrupt from lack of donations/subscriptions, or they'll think twice about selling out their viewers for an extra couple bucks.

Re: We should never expect or accept tracking

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe that's because you're a nobody and nobody cares who you are. When you're a person of note with a controversial opinion get back to me.

Re:We should never expect or accept tracking

[BarbaraHudson]

Most of the transsexuals I deal with have been outed against their will, and most of us wouldn't go back because, in general, it's not a bad experience. We get to pay it forward and serve to show others that being outed against their will is far from the end of the world, that it's more like casting off the shackles of fear of being outed.

Someone mentioned about employers finding details of your past and present. Again, BFD, because why would you want to work for a boss who's an asshole, always afraid that if they DO find out they'll fire you? Jobs are stressful enough without that crap.

NO job is worth that stress and uncertainty.

Re: We should never expect or accept tracking

[BarbaraHudson]

Because you've chosen to give up your privacy doesn't give you the right to make that decision for the rest of us.

Are you nuts? I am not that awesome that I can make the decision for anyone else, and never claimed otherwise. Also, you have incognito mode for your browser if you're that paranoid that someone's stealing your browser history.

Also, if you want to keep your interests private, DON'T USE THE INTERNET. Every http request you send to a server has to know where to send the response to. From the beginning that has shown up in the server logs. That's the way the web works. Everything else is a natural evolution of that simple fact. You already should assume that the NSA is hoovering up everything, including not just your net history but your phone calls. Since you're on the net, you've already accepted that you don't have privacy; you're just not willing to say it.

Re: We should never expect or accept tracking

[GigaplexNZ]

Maybe you should tell that to the families of the people in Bangladesh who were murdered for posting blogs that were tracked back to them.

Re:We should never expect or accept tracking

[BarbaraHudson]

If you're worried about malware, blocking all trackers doesn't remove the hazard. The only surefire way to prevent it is don't use the net.

If you are letting someone else use your computer and they see embarrassing ads as a consequence, you deserve it, as well as all the malware THEY pick up, for letting someone else use your machine unsupervised.

If you think that they won't resell your information, just as newspapers used to do, and charities still do, you're incredibly naive and should stay off the internet until you understand how life works.

Re: We should never expect or accept tracking

[BarbaraHudson]

Maybe that's because you're a nobody and nobody cares who you are. When you're a person of note with a controversial opinion get back to me.

Says the Anonymous Coward.

Re: We should never expect or accept tracking

[BarbaraHudson]

There is no proof that they were found out via advertising cookies. IP addresses led right to them.

Re: We should never expect or accept tracking

[GigaplexNZ]

Not everyone has a static IP address. Are you suggesting that unsavory individuals trying to find you will give up if an IP trace didn't work? This tracking can and will be used for malicious purposes.

Re:We should never expect or accept tracking

[Anonymous Coward]

Why is Slashdot participating in the tracking?

Glancing at Ghostery, it's blocking 7 trackers. AdBlock Plus is blocking 3 elements. Right here on Slashdot.

Right now, AdBlock is blocking 10 different scripts on this page.

10.

Just on this page.

Fuck You Slashdot.

Re:We should never expect or accept tracking

[KGIII]

I use uMatrix, from the guy that makes uBlock Origin, and it tells me that Janrain is trying to load content here on Slashdot. It is, of course, blocked. I don't use Ghostery since they sold their collected data. They did, at least, warn people ahead of time that they were going to do so. Still, I feel it is sleazy and I already used uMatrix so I didn't really need it. Thus, it got uninstalled. (Raymond Hill - I think is his name, makes good stuff, by the way.)

Anyhow, you should expect to be tracked but you shouldn't stand for being forced into being tracked. Ask for a refund and move on. That's horrific of them. I see a couple of comments that minimize it. I still firmly believe that you should be able to opt out and have the site work - more so if you're paying for it. On the other hand, if a site tells me they wish for me to not block content then I leave the site and don't return. It's their property and I respect that. I just don't use their content nor do I attempt to circumvent their measures.

Thoughts... Use uMatrix. With uMatrix you can elect to let Janrain through for that domain and that domain only. They'll be able to track you on that domain but nowhere else. Dump Ghostery and spend a while learning how to use uMatrix. It's whitelist based - so everything's blocked by default. Just remember to save your settings. I start with least permissions and work my way up.

This way, you're allowing Janrain to work on that site and only that site. It doesn't really do them any good because it's blocked everywhere else. You're even kind of skewing their data which makes it less accurate. Maybe that'll teach them a lesson. Personally, I'd request a refund.

Re:We should never expect or accept tracking

[KGIII]

And every tracker is also a potential malware delivery system if they get themselves hacked.

I like my pseudo-privacy as much as the next person but no, not every tracker is a potential malware delivery vessel. You're not going to get malware from a beacon - it's an image and just an image. You're not going to get malware from a cookie, it's just a cookie. Hyperbole and misinformation does us no good.

If you want to advocate for privacy and/or security please do so from an informed position. Nobody is going to listen to us if we're caught lying and spreading misinformation. A web beacon is not malware nor is a cookie. Both are methods of tracking. Both are very common methods of tracking. No beacon or cookie is going to harm your computer, they're non-executable files. No matter who hacks who, neither of those (and a few other things) is capable of being malware.

Re: We should never expect or accept tracking

[Anonymous Coward]

Because most bosses are assholes, and if you filter out asshole bosses, you'll never find a job. Hell, it's hard enough finding a job even including the asshole bosses!

Re: We should never expect or accept tracking

[BarbaraHudson]

You can track people with dynamic IP addresses from the ISP logs. No tracking cookies needed. This has been SOP for years.

Re: We should never expect or accept tracking

[BarbaraHudson]

[citation needed]

Re: We should never expect or accept tracking

[Anonymous Coward]

The ISPs don't (or shouldn't) just give their logs out to anybody who asks.

Re:We should never expect or accept tracking

[BitZtream]

Wow, are you 4 years old?

You must be, because if you're more than 4 years old and reading slashdot then you're certainly old enough to know that both image and cookie exploits have happened in pretty much every browser there is.

So yes, a beacon or cookie CAN harm your computer, unless all the code you run is 100% bug free, and considering you have a functioning browser, you aren't running a secure OS that you've audited 100% of the code and know is bug free. You probably think it is, but thats just shear ignorance on your part.

Re:We should never expect or accept tracking

[robot5x]

Thanks - wish I had mod points!

Will check out uMatrix as a Ghostery replacement

Re:We should never expect or accept tracking

[Anonymous Coward]

Unless you're someone who goes "oh shiny - must have" it doesn't affect you, and if advertising affects you that much, you have bigger problems.

I work in the micro-targeting business and we love people like you. It is the ones who think they are immune to the work we do that are actually the most susceptible because you'll never see it coming. It hasn't been about in-your-face advertising for at least a decade.

It is about swaying you without you even realizing you are being swayed. Here's an egregious example: One of our clients sells alcohol. They use our data to figure out who has alcoholics in their family and then we send them snail-mail coupons for significant discounts on their products, sometimes even completely free, because we know that alcoholism has genetic and environmental components that family members often share and because 10% of the population accounts for 50% of the industry's profits. Those are the people they want to sucker in. And guess what? When the data shows that a heavy drinker has stopped drinking, we send them coupons for freebies too. But we don't just mail them out directly, we have them printed up in their newspaper or their magazine subscription. So it isn't obvious that they've been singled out.

And then there are the politicians (and their superpacs). They use our service to figure out exactly what people's hot button issues are so their campaign and best push those buttons to make them vote for their candidate. Or if there is little chance of getting them to vote for their guy, they do their best to make the voter disgusted with "the other guy" so that they just stay home and don't vote at all. All the big ticket campaigns - presidential and congress do this now and some of the in-state races for important districts are doing it too because it is getting cheaper and cheaper every day.

And that is just the tip of the iceberg. This is the largest industry on planet earth. Facebook alone is valued at 350 BILLION DOLLARS predicated solely on their ability to manipulate people. It doesn't matter how much mental fortitude you have, you will succumb at some point. My company alone has a 10 million dollar budget for pure research in the field of psychology as it applies to swaying people. As the apocryphal saying goes, "You can fool all the people some of the time and some of the people all the time..."

The only way to win this game is not to play.

Re:We should never expect or accept tracking

[BitZtream]

Do you realize how stupid your journal post sounds? Just curious if you realize that, or if you actually believe yourself?

You're one of those bitches (and I mean that word exactly as the most insulting way it feels to you) that will never be satisfied, regardless of the conditions of the world.

You could rule the world and have everyone agree with your views and you'd still find some 'cause' to argue about.

Just STFU, no one cares about your whining, we're well over it. You aren't furthering a cause, you're just looking like a whining bitch.

Re: We should never expect or accept tracking

[Anonymous Coward]

wow, youre so obnoxious and hyper aggressive. do you work for an ad agency or related business?

some random person wants to stay anonymous as possible on the net and you spew all over them.

why are you so angry?

seek help, maybe some anger management classes would be good for you.

and then you can add that to your psychosocial profile.

Re:We should never expect or accept tracking

[Anonymous Coward]

While I like that "shear ignorance" makes me think of "getting fleeced", the proper term is "sheer ignorance".

Regarding your point, it's only been a few days since the latest ImageMagick vulnerability (though it's unlikely that a browser would use such a substantial library for images), so I agree that browser image vulnerabilities is certainly a reasonable concern.

At a company I used to work for, some CEO laptop had a firmware bug that caused it to hard crash whenever displaying a certain image pattern. It took us a day or two to figure out that it was a particular image used in our software, and any attempt to display that image on that machine crashed it.

Re: We should never expect or accept tracking

[Anonymous Coward]

Where the hell have you been lately? Regardless of the numbers, ask any real person and you'll learn unemployment is terrible, in the states at least, because illegals/H1b's are taking the jobs, robots are replacing other jobs, Obama care has caused companies to reduce hours and employees to remain under the limits, and CEOs continue in their race to the top to value profit over anything, considering workers disposable rather than part of the company's identity, as they once were. Wealth continues to accumulate in the too 1% of society, whole the middle class continues to shrink.

Also, you have to remember that underemploymed individuals count as employed. So your college graduate with 100,000 dollars in loans working three minimum part time jobs to barely make ends meet counts as employed, making the numbers look better, yet we can all agree this individual cannot find a job he really wants. Lastly, unemployment also doesn't count people who have given up and are no longer actively seeking a job, not because they don't want to work in most cases, but rather just because there are no fucking jobs out there, unless you want to juggle multiple part time gigs just to barely survive. Might as well just get on welfare or move back in with mommy in that case. Or commit a crime and get three hots and a cot in federal prison. Or go abroad and try to teach English somewhere like China where you have pretty much no protections against abuse and no way to even make them pay, period, but even these jobs are now requiring teaching experience, the legitimate ones, at least. Lastly, you could always try to start your own business, but let's be honest, unless you are extremely lucky or have an absolute genius idea, as in something so radical, not just "I want to open a coffee shop that has a certain gimmick", you need connections to succeed in business. Hell, you need connections to get the loans required to even start a business, and banks sure as hell aren't giving them to some fellow with 100,000 in student loans already who is working at Walmart.

End of rant. But seriously, citation needed for how bad unemployment is? Open your fucking eyes dude.

Re: We should never expect or accept tracking

[Anonymous Coward]

Assuming what you say is true, there is a special place in hell for you and others in your field. I really don't know how you can live with yourself knowing that you actively seek opportunities to ruin peoples lives for your own, hollow, financial gain.
Congrats on making your living preying on the struggles of others.

Please tell, what joy do you derive from ruining the lives of so many? What makes you wake up in the morning and feel like ripping families apart, devastating innocent children as their parents are thrown in jail or die from their addiction?
Does your sports car or rolex help you ignore the gut wrenching mass of human despair and destruction that you leave in your wake?

Addiction is a living hell. It can take every last white knuckled breath for an addict to make the right decision every day, every hour, sometimes every minute.
I really can't fathom the emptiness of soul it would require for someone to be willing to pursue wealth in such a manner.

Re: We should never expect or accept tracking

[Anonymous Coward]

Says the Anonymous Coward.

I've been using Slashdot for years. Several times I've looked to register, but every time I couldn't believe how much information I'd have to give them to register. It's not like I'd get special access or have ads suppressed.

Re: We should never expect or accept tracking

[Anonymous Coward]

and you're hyper-sensitive.
she's just suggesting we all take a level of personal responsibility. there are choices and trade-offs; if you can't recognize that, you've got plenty to learn.
this doesn't mean the situation doesn't suck, but the situation does exist. for now, we have to deal with that reality.

Re: We should never expect or accept tracking

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe that's because you're a nobody and nobody cares who you are. When you're a person of note with a controversial opinion get back to me.

Says the Anonymous Coward.

Seconds this anonymous coward.

Re:We should never expect or accept tracking

[U2xhc2hkb3QgU3Vja3M]

My biggest problem with all that automated tracking is that they're just playing a guessing game to try and find out which topics interest me, but they always pick up 95% of crap that I have either zero interest in, or that I'm completely against.

I wish I could just tell them what my interests really are and be done with it. I've seen that stupid "Helen has a secret" banner so many times but I never understood why they show that to me. I don't care what she does and I've never even watched her show in my life.

Re:We should never expect or accept tracking

[KGIII]

Damn that Slashdot, it must have eaten your citation of a cookie being malware. The image exploit you speak of was not one that impacted the visitor, it was on that impacted the server that the site ran on. Maybe you should reformat your reply and fix the links so we can see your citations.

I suppose you know more than these guys/

How can a cookie threaten a computer?
A cookie itself cannot harm the computer, as it does not and cannot hold code (therefore the cookie cannot perform an action itself). However, the cookie can support (help) malicious actions to be taken on the respective system. Even more, being a plain text file, they are vulnerable, meaning that they can be “harvested” by other applications.

How about for ImageMagick? Here's the description.

This could be used to compromise Web servers and take over websites.

Now settle down while the adults talk or you're going to have to go sit at the kid's table. Stop spreading fud. Do you browse the web with imagemagick? No? Go figure. Does plain text file operate as an executable binary? No? Go figure.

Settle down and think a minute. You just look silly when you're covered in spittle and wrong.

Re:We should never expect or accept tracking

[Anonymous Coward]

Now you start to understand the lie - figuring out what you are interested in is a "Hard AI" problem because your interests at any point in time are the gestalt of everything that you've experienced up to that point, including all the formative years of your childhood and the way your genes are expressed. Maybe Google will get that AI stuff down one day and it might be good enough to actually anticipate what you want before you know what you want. But I'm not holding my breath.

In the meantime all that tracking is fit for purpose in figuring out how to market shit to you. In the marketing business a response rate of just 5% is considered a huge success. In other words they can get it wrong 95% of the time and they are still fucking titans in the field. Whether it is blatant "here buy this" advertising or more subtle ways of extracting cash from you like "price discrimination" -- for example Orbitz showing macintosh users higher priced hotel rooms than they show to PC users -- that is the only thing that tracking and profiling is any good for.

Re:We should never expect or accept tracking

[KGIII]

No worries - I've got max karma as it is. ;-) Save 'em for someone who needs them. Play with it for a little while. You'll get used to it - it does have a learning curve.

Would you like me to share my filters with you?

Actually, here:
http://kgiii.gq/tmp/rules.txt

There's one porn site in there. It blocks the ads and whatnot. It's cam4. *nods* I'm too lazy to go in and delete it. You can or you can just leave it and nobody will be the wiser - you'd not know unless I just told you (or you visited).

If you want my settings let me know. If you want my uBlock personal filters let me know. I'll share 'em with you. I'll help anyone out when it comes to keeping their computer safe.

Re: We should never expect or accept tracking

[Anonymous Coward]

Put in fake data... like 99% of the people here

Re: We should never expect or accept tracking

[Anonymous Coward]

If that image is not essential part of the information being presented it has no effing business to be on the site and referenced to by the html code. Especially if it is loaded by a 2kb of obfuscated JS loaded from a 3rd party host. If something does not have a direct part to what is rendered on the screen there is no effing reason that to be in the web page. I'm saying that as an engineer (actually holding a masters degree in engineering)

Re:We should never expect or accept tracking

[thegarbz]

What the hell /. Why is all this crap necessary?

Same reason it is "necessary" everywhere else. Analytics is a big business now offered by consultants. The internet is no longer about a little "hit counter" on the side of the page. It's about knowing full details of your customers. It's about knowing where they are from, what they do, how they use your site, which pages are popular.

It's also about paying for content which means ads. Ads sprayed into the night are less effective than targeted ads so to maximise income for a site they participate in ad tracking programs.

Welcome to e-commerce. Just because you're not buying, doesn't mean you're not participating.

Re:We should never expect or accept tracking

[AmiMoJo]

Slashdot content detected by Privacy Badger:

cdn-social.janrain.com - tracker, block

ads.pro-market.net - ad network, tracker, block

analytics.slashdotmedia.com - seems to be some kind of internal tracker, for additional data beyond what is associated with your account and for ACs

cdn.taboola.com - clickbait and malware delivery platform, block

s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com - CDN, safe

d29usylhdk1xyu.cloudfront.net - part of Amazon CDN, safe
d3ezl4ajpp2zy8.cloudfront.net
d3hmp0045zy3cs.cloudfront.net

tag.crsspxl.com - tracker/analytics, block

a.fsdn.com - CDN that serves Slashdot's images

www.googletagservices.com - Google ad services, block

s.ntv.io - Seems to be an Amazon DNS server, presumably part of their CDN

rpxnow.com - Login via Facebook etc.

image-assets.stackcommerce.com - tracking and profiling to recommend shit you don't want, block
images.stackcommerce.com
api.stacksocial.com

consent.truste.com - Security services for sites, but also tracks do block
consent-st.truste.com
trackerapi.truste.com

In addition, uBlock Origin also kills:

pro-market.net - Ads/tracking, block

Re:We should never expect or accept tracking

[AmiMoJo]

All of your techniques seem to be dependent on stuff that is easily blocked or irrelevant. In the UK there is a mail preference service to opt out of postal spam, and it works. No-one reads newspapers and magazines any more, they are dying and one of the reasons is that they are chock full of manipulative crap.

Anything web based is fairly easy to block too. So what avenues do you have left for manipulation? Buying billboards near people's homes? seems rather expensive and narrowly focused...

I'm asking so that we can figure out ways to block you, but I think many of us already did.

Re: We should never expect or accept tracking

[Stephan Schulz]

Also, if you want to keep your interests private, DON'T USE THE INTERNET. Every http request you send to a server has to know where to send the response to. From the beginning that has shown up in the server logs. That's the way the web works. Everything else is a natural evolution of that simple fact. You already should assume that the NSA is hoovering up everything, including not just your net history but your phone calls. Since you're on the net, you've already accepted that you don't have privacy; you're just not willing to say it.

If you don't want to be murdered, don't ever get born. Your body is fragile, and every day you are interacting with a potentially deadly environment. You should always assume that the FBI or the KGB or the Mafia or your looney neighbour could kill you at will. It's just a natural evolution of the fragile nature of life.

Or, in other words, we create a regulatory framework of laws and social conventions to supplement nature. We don't need a parliament to decide which way gravity pulls us, or if water is wet. That we get for free.

Re:We should never expect or accept tracking

[Anonymous Coward]

And guess what? When the data shows that a heavy drinker has stopped drinking, we send them coupons for freebies too.

Hope you're proud of yourself.

Re: We should never expect or accept tracking

[AmiMoJo]

Shouldn't that be illegal? It is in the EU. The more I read about this stuff on Slashdot the more I think that the US needs some strong privacy laws.

Re:We should never expect or accept tracking

[Anonymous Coward]

Not much you can do about native advertising. We are already doing it in video too. Services like youtube and netflix which identify the viewer make it easy enough to monetize you by showing you the version of the shows with the ads you are most susceptible to.

The best you can hope for is piracy, you'll still get ads, but only those targeted at the person who did the pirating so you won't be quite as vulnerable. Although simply being a pirate is a kind of profile too.

Re:We should never expect or accept tracking

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry to burst your bubble but there has already been an image rendering exploit found (citation: http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/14282/info). Yes it is for IE but the point stands that remote content can be used to infect a client machine given a flaw in the client. That stands for *any* remote content regardless of executable state.

The problem with the tracking and ad servers as they currently stand is they affect a vast range of websites from a relatively small number of sources. Any exploit launched from one of these central points would have a massive potential target base to affect who are unlikely to even be aware of the risk.

Re:We should never expect or accept tracking

[JustAnotherOldGuy]

by showing you the version of the shows with the ads you are most susceptible to.

Except I use Adblock, so I never see your ads, not on Youtube and not here and not anywhere else either.

If Netflix tries to show me an ad, I just turn the sound down and look out the window at the trees and birds for a few moments. It's a nicer view than your ad. And when I look back after a few moments, your ad is gone.

Re:We should never expect or accept tracking

[JustAnotherOldGuy]

Here's what Adblock shows me for this page. Yeah, some of it is totally innocent, but the rest of it? Why do all of these things need to be loading? (I removed a lot of extra crap that seemed benign to get by the "you need more characters in your message" filter.)

And who thinks that gstatic.com isn't using their Google Plus icone (gplus-16.png) as a beacon?

https://a.fsdn.com/sd/js/scrip...
https://ads.pro-market.net/ads...
https://s.ntv.io/serve/load.js
https://sourceforgemedia-compu...
https://analytics.slashdotmedi...
https://api.stacksocial.com/v0...
https://ask.slashdot.org/ajax....
https://ask.slashdot.org/favic...
https://cdn-social.janrain.com...
https://cdn.taboola.com/libtrc...
https://consent-st.truste.com/...
https://d3ezl4ajpp2zy8.cloudfr...
https://rpxnow.com/js/lib/logi...
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws...
https://slashdot.org/images/js...
https://tag.crsspxl.com/s1.js?...
https://www.googletagservices....
https://www.gstatic.com/images...

Re:We should never expect or accept tracking

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry dude, it is clear you did not click on any of those links. Read them and then weep at the obsolence of your precious adblock. You are fighting the biggest industry on the planet, no pissant little adblock can withstand billions of dollars of motivation to find ways to circumvent it.

Re: We should never expect or accept tracking

[BarbaraHudson]

There's a thing called a warrant. Don't like it - don't do illegal downloads, or use TOR.

Re:We should never expect or accept tracking

[BarbaraHudson]

Too bad that, even with all my information, you can't sway me with targeted offers. I'm just too old for that stupidity. My uncle taught me a long time ago that if it's a good deal today, it will still be a good deal tomorrow. There is no rush, so I take my time thinking about something, and the answer is usually no, I don't really need that crap. And then usually there's an even better deal down the road ... and usually the answer is still no.

You simply cannot make be buy something I don't want. This is the upside of a lifetime of exposure to advertising - eventually you become immune. You also get into the habit of always doing research before buying.

Take a look at how the value of a click has dropped by more than half in the last year. That says it all.

Re:We should never expect or accept tracking

[BarbaraHudson]

(sigh) with 175 or more comments, it's obvious that some people are interested. Just because you're all butt-hurt by the growing movement of transsexuals to tell the LGBT to kindly fuck off and don't do us any more "favors" doesn't mean you'll stop the increasing trend - or change the facts that they have caused us a lot of harm.

So, you can kindly fuck off too :-)

Re: We should never expect or accept tracking

[BarbaraHudson]

some random person wants to stay anonymous as possible on the net and you spew all over them.

... because only an idiot thinks that it's really possible to be anonymous on the internet. Please remove the rose-colored glasses and have a look at reality - and have a nice day, because forewarned is forearmed, and unlike you, I want people to be warned.

Re:We should never expect or accept tracking

[surd1618]

For me, it's related to the principle of "I vote on businesses by spending my money there." I don't like the companies that track internet users, and I would prefer it if we could collectively starve them out of business by using tools like Ghostery.
Also, I don't know what the future will hold. Right now, all of this tracking seems relatively innocuous, but these are massive datasets, and unforeseen developments could lead to consequences that I don't like.

Re: We should never expect or accept tracking

[BarbaraHudson]

The H1Bs are taking your jobs regardless of what you do, or how much you suck up, and you know it. The progression of the robots is equally unstoppable. Also, do you really think that the reduced hours were caused by Obamacare? Companies were doing that long before Obamacare to avoid paying benefits.

Yes, an underemployed person counts as employed. What do you propose - counting them as unemployed? This too has always been the case.

Same with all your complaints - there's nothing new under the sun since Reaganomics trickle-down crap.

"You need connections to succeed in business." And the way to do that is have customers. And the way to do that is get off your ass and knock on doors, not think that someone will stumble across you on the web.

"You need connections to get the loans required to even start a business." Or you could work for someone else and gain experience while putting aside what you can, and when you need the loan, you'll be able to show both skin in the game and experience that reduces the risk of default. You know, like everyone did in the past.

BTW - why not look at the unemployment rate under both Bushes and the current trend? Under them, unemployment rose - under Obama, unemployment has been on a more-or-less steady decline.

Also, instead of taking out loans to get an education, why not work and get your education part-time over a longer period, so you have both no student debt and more real-world experience, so that again you aren't entering a job market with no experience and a ton of debt, instead of "taking the easy way out" and wondering what happened when you hit the wall? "Because that's what everyone else around me was doing" has never been a valid excuse - didn't your parents say "If everyone else jumped off a bridge, would you?"

Re: We should never expect or accept tracking

[Anonymous Coward]

In Eu, specialy in France, we have first to access on shlashdot, a panel saying that we will be tracked. We don't have the choice to accept it or not. We just know it. And it's the same on every site we access.

Re: We should never expect or accept tracking

[BarbaraHudson]

"How much information?" If you have been here for years, then you would have only had to give a nickname and an email - same as I did back when I had a 5-digit uid to when I switched to this account. Sure, now they ask for a job title, but "I prefer not to say" is an option, company size has "Unspecified/Not applicable", and the second option for country is also "I prefer not to say."

So, a nickname and email address are "too much information?"

George Carlin wants to talk to you. :-)

Re: We should never expect or accept tracking

[BarbaraHudson]

Using the Internet is optional. Just ask most of the world.

Re:We should never expect or accept tracking

[BarbaraHudson]

Which is why I say that you should treat the prospect of having private details exposed as a BFD. If you don't care who knows what about you, you are pretty much inoculated against having those data sets used against you in evil ways at a future date.

Re:We should never expect or accept tracking

[Anonymous Coward]

It is hilarious that your own words declaring your immunity actually demonstrate your susceptibility. You believing that ad clicks are the be-all and end-all of advertising is exactly what the industry wants you to think. Micro-targeting has nothing to do with clicks. It is all about putting ideas in your head and making you think they are your ideas. The "click" only happens weeks or months after your exposure to the advertising.

Your uncle taught you how to deal to with state of the art advertising from 20+ years ago. The industry has moved on, but your skills have not kept up. You are the best kind of sucker - one brimming over with so much false confidence that they refuse to even consider doubting themselves.

Re:We should never expect or accept tracking

[BarbaraHudson]

And yet micro-targeting no longer is all that effective because it's not resulting in more user actions - they're going down, not up. So it's your claim that is demonstrably false. That's not false confidence - that's fact. YOU are the one with the false confidence of the desperate, who, like a religious person, NEEDS to believe, despite the facts. In other words ..

Then again, people in the advertising industry HAVE to believe in whatever snake oil is on the menu du jour, so they can sell it to ad buyers. And both of you need each other to justify your respective jobs.

Re:We should never expect or accept tracking

[Anonymous Coward]

And yet micro-targeting no longer is all that effective because it's not resulting in more user actions -

It is clear you are too wrapped up in your own narrative of personal superiority to apply rational analysis. You are the judas goat.

I will repeat again even though you are incapable of hearing it: clicks are not relevant. Actual sales and voting turnout are the results that matter and micro-targeting is working better than any previous advertising tech. Ever. Thanks to big data sources like loyalty cards and voter registration records we can prove it to our clients too.

Re:We should never expect or accept tracking

[Aighearach]

This is why I'm effectively "allergic" to advertising and I block it all, I don't watch commercial television, etc. I do watch a few hours of TV sports per year when the local college team is on regular TV, but I strictly and compulsively mute during the ads. I do watch a little media content, but without ads; for example, the show Vikings I stream on the website without ads. If they were to get an ad past my blocker, I'd close the window instantly.

I can make my own purchasing decisions without any help. But I agree with you entirely; I can't expose myself to their content, and still be making my own decisions. Belief in mental fortitude does not change DNA or psychology, and the vast majority of mental processes are not even conscious and I don't get to "decide" how I feel about everything. That is an impossible dream, magical thinking. But I can, and mostly do, control what is on the screens I look at, the papers I look at. Usually, the sounds I listen to.

And even still, I'm being exposed to it; how many slashdot stories are there because of what a database says about the readers? But it does help if you don't click any of the links. It reduces the exposure. And for a news junkie, such as myself, there is a lot of misleading crap that goes into what headlines are available for me to view. There is some bleed-over there, that I can't remove without rendering myself unaware of the broader world.

And the average person out there thinks that the Discovery Channel shows documentaries. LOL They also think "news entertainment" is news.

Re:We should never expect or accept tracking

[Aighearach]

Right, those of us who block the ads and also don't click whatever links somebody spams are partially inoculated.

The idea that simply being a "big industry" guarantees success for them is naive. They can be mostly successful, and I can also be mostly successful, because my goals are individual and their goals are aggregate.

I'll believe that my ad blocker is insufficient when I actually see ads. And I'll stop using those sites. If one of them turns out to be youtube, that doesn't mean I lose and the ads win; it means I would spend more time at archive.org, and none at youtube.

I also run two layers of scriptblock, plus privacy badger, and if it doesn't work, I just close the window (or use the google cache). I also spend a couple hours a day outdoors in the forest. They're not going to make me watch ads unless they lock me in a room and feed them to me A Clockwork Orange style.

Re:We should never expect or accept tracking

[Aighearach]

One thing I noticed since the slashdot sale is that the "block advertising" checkbox no longer stays checked. I guess they're playing some sort of cross-site scripting or tracking game with it now? Or they just fiddled it innocently and it hit one of my blockers. No way for me to know... I don't see ads anyways, except however many stories are slashvertisements. Don't click the links and you're safe. Never click links.

Re:We should never expect or accept tracking

[Anonymous Coward]

> partially inoculated.

That's key. Partially inoculated just means less redundancy in the information collected about you. Simply creating an account and then using it means you are tracked. You aren't tracked by everybody, but you are still tracked. Even without using an account on every site, all it takes is one account and then using the same IP address to access other sites.

> I'll believe that my ad blocker is insufficient when I actually see ads.

Did you also fail to read those links? You won't even know the ads are there. That is the key to effective native advertising (aka product placement) because everybody has an adverse reaction when they consciously realize they are being marketed to.

Re:We should never expect or accept tracking

[Aighearach]

I added uMatrix in addition to uBlock and ScriptBlock. I might dump scriptblock now that I have uMatrix, but I'm running both for now. uMatrix is per-site instead of global to the browser instance.

With all that, nothing on slashdot makes it through to Privacy Badger. :) uBlock does still find 5 things. uMatrix catches 1 script that I temporarily enabled in ScriptBlock... for a different site.

Re:We should never expect or accept tracking

[Aighearach]

I'm also super-happy with uMatrix! I recommend Privacy Badger instead of Ghostery. Don't count on just one layer of protection, there are too many sneaky bastards coding for Them. Something will slip through.

Re:We should never expect or accept tracking

[Anonymous Coward]

It sure does suck that you have to live like a modern techno hermit, completely out of mainstream life, in order to have free will. "Choosing" to live that way is itself a loss of free will because it is a choice made in response to the domination by others.

The acceptability of public policy really should not be determined by outliers. Just like the passage of the PATRIOT Act, premised on an ultra-rare scenario has had enormous negative consequences for the country and the world in general, so too does the unchecked freedom for Big Data corps to constantly spy on the entire country.

Re: We should never expect or accept tracking

[Stephan Schulz]

Using the Internet is optional. Just ask most of the world.

So is survival. Just ask most of the world.

In practice, there are services without which life in a modern society is, while not impossible, at least highly impractical. Things like water toilets and, indeed, the internet. By using them you do not automatically consent to all avoidable negative side effects.

Re:We should never expect or accept tracking

[Anonymous Coward]

... best push those buttons to make them vote for their candidate.

Demonizing the competition has been an effective tactic for a few millenia. Big business has just gotten very efficient at it.

... we send them coupons ...

Inciting bad behaviour from people with a history of behaving badly isn't clever psychology: In fact it's a concept mentioned in the Old Bible and texts from other religions.

... can fool all the people some of the time and some of the people all the time ...

So what you're really doing is finding the people who like your propaganda. That is, isolating your target audience.

Keep telling the same lie and people will forget the truth: It works many, many, many times. But the the lies of GW Bush, John Howard, Tony Blair claiming Saddam Hussein had WMDs, never replaced the truth. The modern news is no longer a biased retelling of events, like during the Iraq war, it's telling people to care about certain events. The problem being, people have a natural response, possibly culturally learnt, to an event and telling them to have different feelings doesn't work. Instead, they realize they're being told what to think.

Re: We should never expect or accept tracking

[Anonymous Coward]

YAY capitalism. dont hate the player hate the game.

Re:We should never expect or accept tracking

[KGIII]

That's probably good advice and I suppose I follow it already. I use both uMatrix and uBlock Origin.

I've played with it and if you want to get really fancy, there's also another extension that he has out there. I know it's out there for Opera - it's called HTTP Switchboard. It's very similar to the first two but a bit more advanced and, again, offers another layer of refinement. For the longest time, there wasn't a uMatrix for Firefox - he just made a version last year.

It's great that it's out there and that there's a version you can use for most any browser except the Windows native browsers. (I don't think it's an option of IE or Edge.) But, in case you've never noticed, he has a notice up where he explicitly states that he'll not accept any donations. I was not aware of this and I now have every reason to believe that he's telling the truth.

See, I'd not noticed the bit about him not accepting donations and I like to sometimes surprise people who write the software that I rely on with a monetary reward. I looked around for a way to donate to him and I couldn't find anything. I sent him an email expressing that I'd like to donate. When I donate, it's usually a fairly decent sum - I'm not sure how much I was offering to donate to him but I think it was $500 which isn't bad for a one-man project. It's enough for him and a friend to go have a good night on the town - something like that.

He declined. I got a "thanks but no thanks" answer including him pointing out that he appreciated it but he doesn't accept donations. Yeah...

That was a true no-strings-attached donation, a fairly good (I think) donation for a person who's just writing an extension, and I didn't ask for any recognition or anything and it's not like I'm an ad company trying to sneak stuff by. So, yeah, he's seemingly on the up-and-up and holds a moral high ground to the point where he's not even accepting donations of any kind. That's kind of cool.

Re:We should never expect or accept tracking

[BarbaraHudson]

ANY action counts. I used to write the code for the server for one ad-serving search engine, so I probably know the field better than you, because I've heard all the bullsh*t from marketing and sales that they were giving customers.

It's all about cost per action - whether it's a click, an order, or whatever the ad buyer is paying for, and the metrics are clear - cpa is less than half what it was a year ago because it's no longer delivering the results it used to. People have in large part become ad-blind, especially on the internet. Also, for votes you cannot tell - people lie all the time, and their actual vote is secret. If you've ever actually participated in an election or three, you'd know that.

Re: We should never expect or accept tracking

[BarbaraHudson]

Comparing the internet to a flush toilet is ironic - most of the internet could be flushed and nobody would notice.

I have two sisters who have NEVER used the internet, and never will. They're doing just fine without it, but they'd sure notice if there was no toilet.

And yes, by using the Internet, you have agreed to any side effects, such as wasted time, etc., and the risk of malware. I was off the net for quite a while because I couldn't see well enough to use a computer. More than a year, and it wasn't "highly impractical" at all. You get used to it quickly.

If you can't do without it, you're addicted, and need to get a live.

Re: We should never expect or accept tracking

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm much more worried about our corporate overlords knowing every facet of my life than some government beaurocracy. I'm much more likely to be harmed by them

Re: We should never expect or accept tracking

[Anonymous Coward]

"Does your sports car or rolex help you ignore the gut wrenching mass of human despair and destruction that you leave in your wake?"

YES!

Re: We should never expect or accept tracking

[BarbaraHudson]

Then I guess you never use credit or debit cards, never use a speedpass to gas up, never apply for a loan, never use a bank, never go to school, never work, never pay taxes, never get sick, no driver's license ... Congratulations, you're dead!

Re: We should never expect or accept tracking

[beastofburdon]

Have you looked at the cost of going to college lately? Even with the GI bill and a part-time job for most of it, I still ended up with over $50,000 in debt.
How the hell do you expect someone who is barely scraping by with a job to be able to also go to school without incurring debt?
This isn't the 70's. You can't make it through college on a part-time job without taking out loans. Hell, you would be hard pressed to make it with a full-time job making $15/hr, very hard pressed. Also, you would have to already went through college to get that $15/hr job.
The world is not the libertarian fantasy we wish it was. College is overpriced by at lest one order of magnitude if not two. Real wages have not stagnated, they have been on a steady decline for well over 50 years.
Unless you are lucky enough to be born into an upper middle class or above family you are going to go into debt to get an education. There are rare exceptions for those who get extremely lucky, but not everyone can be a star football player or so completely devoted to your studies that you have no life outside of school whatsoever.

Re: We should never expect or accept tracking

[BarbaraHudson]

Go to Germany. The education is free, you can do it without knowing German, and you might just decide to stay there after. Problem solved.

Once upon a time ...

[Calydor]

Once upon a time the idea was that you 'paid' for the content you consumed by looking at the ads.

Once upon a time the idea was also that if you paid a subscription you got the whole package, not a bunch of cherry-on-top paid DLCs for games etc., but like the above idea about ads those days are gone and will never be coming back.

Businesses will keep pushing and pushing for every last fraction of a cent they can get - and when they reach their absolute maximum possible earnings they start firing people because earnings aren't increasing. Just look at the abject terror a week ago when Apple's earnings weren't increasing like they had. Not that they were losing money, they just weren't earning MORE money than they used to.

It is insanity.

Re: Once upon a time ...

[Anonymous Coward]

Why the hell do we selectively tolerate this, though. Slashdot is just as bad as anywhere else, plus they're hypocrites. I just checked and one of the sites blocked by Noscript when I load Slashdot is, you guessed it, janrain.com. So, this article is critical of tracking and specifically calls out janrain.com as an undesired tracker while simultaneously serving up tracking scripts from janrain.com. WTF?

Re:Once upon a time ...

[Anonymous Coward]

Mooooo Cowdor Moooo. Moooo say the Cowdor. Mooo!

Re:Once upon a time ...

[Aighearach]

No, the idea was that the advertisers paid for the content hoping that you would look at the ads. It isn't actually a difficult concept. It was never the viewer paying. There was never any expectation for an individual viewer to pay attention to ads.

Those are lies that were just invented in a past few years, seeking to change how you view history. Why do you buy in to whatever narrative you're fed? Beh-eh-eh-eh-eh-eh-eh-eh come on sheepy, do better.

You can see the insanity, you want to do better. That is clear.

Re:Once upon a time ...

[jimbrooking]

It's not insanity, it's baked-in corporate DNA. Anyone who attributes human values like "fairness", "honesty", "decency" and "evil" to corporations is delusional. Corporations have only one value: maximize profits. Any actions that maximize profits will be taken. If the action is deemed in human terms to be "wrong", or even "illegal", the only question is "if we do this, will it make us more money, even if there are consequences like fines?" If the answer is affirmative, it is, to the corporation, a "moral", if not compulsory act.

We humans, with our quaint and bothersome notions of "right" and "wrong", serve the corporations by giving them money. They will do whatever it takes to maximize the money we give them. Get over it.

Re: Once upon a time ...

[Anonymous Coward]

Shut the fuck up Cowdor!

Re:Once upon a time ...

[luvirini]

>Once upon a time the idea was also that if you paid a subscription you got the whole package, not a bunch of cherry-on-top paid DLCs for games etc., but like the above idea about ads those days are gone and will never be coming back.

That is why I never buy new top games, I wait until the "ultimate edition" with all the DLCs comes out a year or two later. It also tends to be cheaper than the original so it is a win in many ways for me and in the end the company gets less total money from me than if they just released the whole game at once as then I might buy the full price version.

Re:Once upon a time ...

[Anonymous Coward]

Corporations love only money and love of money is the root of all evil so corporations are all evil...

Also this site looks really funny if you view it in no-beta and block everything privacy badger finds.

Re:Once upon a time ...

[Anonymous Coward]

Just like pay TV. The promise I recall way back when was that you paid a fee to see TV content and in return you got the added service of not having to endure interminable ads in the middle of the program. Which seemed reasonable. Fast forward to when I was old enough to consider actually paying for pay TV well what do you know... apparently you pay for ads. No thanks.

Back on topic: I would consider paying a small fee to not have my privacy intruded upon and to avoid having targeted ads shovelled down my throat, but why on earth would I waste my money if they intend to do the objectionable shit anyway? There are plenty of sites on the web that give me good content on those terms already.

Practical advice: try installing one of the many addons that automatically wipe your browser settings / cookies / flash cookies / browser history / etc etc every time you close your browser, and make sure you close it every time you finish with slate (and before you start). Only enable trackers on a case by case basis during your slate viewing, and never log in to eg google in one tab and slate in another. They can still spy via browser fingerprinting and such but at least you're making their job non trivial.

Re:Once upon a time ...

[Anonymous Coward]

Which is why it is lunacy that corporations are considered as "people" in the eyes of the law in so many situations. They are not. They are amoral entities that exist for one reason only - to vacuum up as much money as possible. They must be treated as such.

Re:Once upon a time ...

[KGIII]

So, the ACLU, Habitat for Humanity, The Linux Foundation, FreeBSD Group (I think that was their name), EFF, and FSF are all just profit motivated?

And you say that other people are delusional?

Re:Once upon a time ...

[KGIII]

I do not recall that being promised. I do recall it being presumed and being largely true but never entirely true. Then again, I remember when cable was because reception was poor and people would kick in to buy a tower and run cable from the tower and pay for the upkeep but that was really, at first, just regular television being gathered by the big antenna and nothing special. Maybe you grew up on a different planet or just a different country?

I seriously recollect no such promise. It was like that for some channels and still is (as far as I know) like that for some channels. I don't watch television but I believe it's like that for far fewer channels than it used to be. However, there was never a time when cable meant no ads - in my country. I live in the US.

Re:Once upon a time ...

[UnknownSoldier]

> not a bunch of cherry-on-top paid DLCs for games etc

You're looking for this DLC image.

It has already happened with Hearthstone. You can buy Quests for $24.99.

Re: Once upon a time ...

[Anonymous Coward]

But browser history and cookies are actually useful I some cases. Trying to find the website I visited last month but now forgotten, or automatically changing settings on a website so that I don't have to manually do it every time I visit.

The problem isn't history or cookies per say, but rather that companies are using methods like supercookies and even malware to track users across sites. This should flat out be illegal, but will never happen as long as the US remains controlled by corporations. Perhaps the EU will step in, but I'm not holding my breath.

Re:Once upon a time ...

[BitZtream]

Just look at the abject terror a week ago when Apple's earnings weren't increasing

WHAT TERROR?

Other than an investor selling stock (which he's already started rebutting) what terror are you referring to? No one got laid off, no one is even afraid of being laid off, just some loud mouth blowhards who don't know what they are talking about or have an agenda are saying 'omg apple is falling'.

Just for reference, Apple has been on its last leg almost as long as I've been alive.

At one point, it almost did die, but today? You have to be absolutely fucking retarded to make some statement like that. They can buy several COUNTRIES in Europe with JUST THE CASH ON HAND. OH MY FUCKING GOD I HOPE I SURVIVE APPLES CRASH!%!@%!#%

You guys are idiots.

Re:Once upon a time ...

[FlyHelicopters]

And you say that other people are delusional?

No, but you are if you can't figure out that it was OBVIOUS that the GP was talking about for-profit corporations owned by share-holders...

It shouldn't have even had to be said, but I guess it does because there are fools everywhere.

Re:Once upon a time ...

[Anonymous Coward]

I was quite young at the time, so I may be misremembering or recalling through the filter of my parent's discussion. If I am misremembering then I wonder why cable ever took off except in marginal viewing areas.

Re:Once upon a time ...

[KGIII]

No, that's certainly not obvious - nor is it conclusive.

You'll find there are at least a few of us here who are, in one way or another, incorporated and as a for-profit motive. I have a corporation which holds a bunch of my assets. There are two others that I know who do. There are likely more that are legally incorporated and freelancers.

I'm not sure you really want to go calling people fools. Not only was it not obvious, it still isn't right when you add in for profit corporations.

Would you like to swing again? I'll pitch 'em a little slower for you.

(Hint: No, you don't want to. That'd be stupid. You can't win.)

Re:Once upon a time ...

[KGIII]

It offered a better signal - I think it was the remote valleys in CA where it got started - I forget which area specifically but that's sounding about right and Google is so very far away.

It offered stations from out of the area, for example. Eventually, they started pumping in stuff so you ended up with things like Local Access Cable channels as they filled up the UHF range. (I think it's UHF for 13+? I don't watch much TV and haven't really ever been all that into it, not even so much as a kid.)

Then it just kind of bloomed from there. That's how I remember it, at any rate. I remember when we got cable, it was actually when we were VERY remote and we lived on the other side of the base. (My dad was a career Marine.) So I moved a lot but we were on the outside and cable got us a half-dozen extra channels and, by then, we could pay for some upgrades and those had both some with commercials and some without.

You have HBO, SHOW, SkinAMax, and those sorts of things.

I want to say that even satellite had commercials at first - I'm damned sure it did as it showed local channels from all over the place. We used to have a giant dish at one point. LOL Remember those?

Re:Once upon a time ...

[thejynxed]

This part was true and all, but you missed the part where they mentioned "shareholders". Being self-incorporated, you aren't trading on the NASDAQ and therefore aren't legally beholden to providing ever increasing profits at the expense of everything else.

Re:Once upon a time ...

[Calydor]

There is no need for the sheepish mockery, mate. We are saying the same thing with slightly different words. There has never been any expectation in advertisement that 100% of the people being exposed to a given ad would pay attention to it; not on websites, not on TV, not on billboards or in newspapers or wherever else ads show up.

Re:Once upon a time ...

[Anonymous Coward]

You always paid for old newspapers AND they put ads in them.

That said, they didn't collect information on you and sell it.

If you pay for access to a site, they should do as you expect, not sell your data.

Re: Once upon a time ...

[tlhIngan]

The question should be why are the tracker-blockers so broken that they can't block the trackers and make websites work?

I mean, the reason is the site uses AJAX or redirects that link through the tracker typically (which is why most sites break) before sending you onto the next page. The blocker should basically simulate this - except instead of talking to the tracker, it just redirects you to the next page.

Preventing tracking is not just blocking the trackers, but also either rewriting or substituting the tracking javascript so the sites still work...

Re: Once upon a time ...

[thegarbz]

A bit of context here.

1. This is not an article, it is the rants of one user. Just because one user says he doesn't like something about another site doesn't make Slashdot hypocritical.
2. This rant of one user was about tracking on a subscription based service. Slashdot does not rely on this structure to the point where I can't actually figure out how to subscribe (assuming you still can). It's not obvious.
3. This rant was about the fact that if janrain.com was blocked it broke the site. You're posting here just fine, but you didn't need to accept the script from janrain.com did you?

There are very different contexts here, and for a lot of people selective tolerance means different things. Some people will go with blocking every script and if a site doesn't work then so be it. I'm more of the view of blocking scripts for performance so if something doesn't work I just reactivate the script. Not everyone is afraid of someone knowing that someone else somewhere in the world with a specific cookie in their browser from a specific IP replied to an AC on slashdot.

Re:Once upon a time ...

[Anonymous Coward]

Corporations have only one value: maximize profits.

No, it's maximize shareholder value. Maximizing profits at the expensive of shareholder value will get you in just as much hot water with your investors....

Re:Once upon a time ...

[Aighearach]

There is no need to tell me what I need to say, no, we're not saying the same thing at all.

Re: Once upon a time ...

[Anonymous Coward]

Its ok. The Kruger-Dunning is strong within that one.
KGIII is a fantasist and not too bright.

Re: Once upon a time ...

[whipslash]

Are we forcing your whiny ass to pay for a subscription?

Re:Once upon a time ...

[KGIII]

You know shareholders isn't just a matter of publicly traded shares, right? There are all sorts of examples out there - the important part of this is that corporations covers a whole lot of ground. My children are shareholders - even on paper, to a non-publicly traded corporation. It's even a for-profit corporation. I'd consider looking at what incorporation actually is before going further in this discussion. The use of the term shareholders does not imply nor limit it to publicly traded, NASDAQ. NYSE, or any other entity. I imagine there's a Wikipedia article or two if you're actually interested in learning.

They are free to choose, as are you

[93 Escort Wagon]

If you don't like their business practices, then don't do business with them. If they have something you want, they don't have to give it to you under your terms. But if enough people refuse to accept their terms, they'll have to change their model.

That's how free enterprise works.

Re:They are free to choose, as are you

[Ol Olsoc]

If you don't like their business practices, then don't do business with them. If they have something you want, they don't have to give it to you under your terms. But if enough people refuse to accept their terms, they'll have to change their model.

That's how free enterprise works.

Or it could work by listening to customers as well.

Re:They are free to choose, as are you

[sir1963nz]

They say it costs twice the amount to win a customer back than to keep and existing one . HOWEVER, the marketing people know their bonuses come from winning a customer back and they get nothing for keeping one. Me, I have ghostery turn up to the max, I also have a large hosts list, I have zero interest in being tracked/spammed/harassed . If I can't get to their site...I go else where....easy choice to make.

Re:They are free to choose, as are you

[Ol Olsoc]

They say it costs twice the amount to win a customer back than to keep and existing one . HOWEVER, the marketing people know their bonuses come from winning a customer back and they get nothing for keeping one.

It's a silly way to do things It's lie unsucscribing from something like Comcast every so often, then re-upping when they have a deal. My better half is freaking out at their lates 30 dollar price increase, but they have the internetz speed I need - I do multiple websites and a lot of remote access work. I pretty much have to go to fiber if we dump them.

Me, I have ghostery turn up to the max, I also have a large hosts list, I have zero interest in being tracked/spammed/harassed . If I can't get to their site...I go else where....easy choice to make.

And how! I have some times had to disable blocking, and I have to say, the internet is just not worth that shitstorm of suck.

Re:They are free to choose, as are you

[epine]

If you don't like their business practices, then don't do business with them. If they have something you want, they don't have to give it to you under your terms. But if enough people refuse to accept their terms, they'll have to change their model.

That's how free enterprise works.

Toy model much?

Last time I tried to purchase a cell phone cash, they wouldn't sell one to me. Cross off the corporate offenders one by one, pretty soon you become an embargoed island. Man, we have a lot of ground to cover. How about we start here?

Why Does Cuba Have so Many Classic Cars?

Next year, we can progress to John Nash.

Re:They are free to choose, as are you

[robot5x]

Yep agree. Lots of comments here go along the lines of "this is a free market, just take your business elsewhere". Fine - I can do that (and in this case I certainly will). But what proportion of the general internet using population do you think are even aware they are being tracked? This faith in the rational decision-making power of consumers relies on them having information about the relative pros and cons of accessing a particular service. I guess what I'm suggesting is that this 'expectation' to be tracked has just sneaked up on us, and there is no transparency from individual web sites, or these tracking services, about what is really happening with people's data. I don't believe any of us have made a rational decision that being tracked is 'OK' - it's just the way things are now, so we all just have to kind of accept it. It's pretty sad.

Re:They are free to choose, as are you

[KGIII]

The 'net with the way some folks do ads these days is absurd. Absolutely absurd.

However, I recommend uMatrix and uBlock Origin. You can actually do the same things with both of them, more or less. But, each is slightly better at different tasks and neither ads much to your resource usage - it probably lowers it by not loading the ads.

uMatrix is like an old-school software firewall, except it's just for your browser. uBlock is, well, you know what that is. There's the right click and block elements. I'm not sure what "language" it is that you use in there - to block stuff. But, once you learn it (or a little bit of it) you can really block some stuff pretty handily and easily - as well as completely.

uMatrix is whitelist based - pretty much everything is blocked by default. You can even set it to block FIRST party stuff by default - if you really want to. Then, as you browse, you whitelist only what you need. You save your settings. These settings can be exported and used on different computers or, if you want, it now supports the sync function in your browser so that you can sync the content automatically from one device to the next. You just use the same device name - it never deletes, it just merges so collisions don't result in you needing to replicate your work.

There is a learning curve with uMatrix but it's neither long nor difficult. If I am able to do it then I'm sure you can do it. I've actually taken my saved settings and uploaded them in the past to get people started - so that they can see what they look like. If you're interested then I can dump 'em online again sometime. I've been using it for quite a while and I tend to be a 'least-privilege' kind of guy. I basically only let run the absolute minimal required to get the functionality I need. No heavy scripts, no cookies, no XSS, no frames, no anything - unless it's needed or the layout is toast without it.

Re: They are free to choose, as are you

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not a choice to do business with them when I click on a new site in google and 50 trackers start up and steal my info before the site's content even loads.

And if you think users should be required to search for this info about every new aite before clicking a new link to decide if it's worth it to visit, you're absolutely fucking insane.

It's one thing if the site shows a blank page and says "we use xyz trackers for xyz purposes. If you agree to this we will show you content. If not, you cannot enter our website." As much as I hate trackers, I'd have a bit of respect for sites that do that. The reality though, that they load the trackers/malware without your knowledge before you can even access the content, and without giving the user a say in it, means your free market scenario can't work out. In a true free market where users have the ability to make decisions based on what the website does and doesn't track, tracking should be illegal u less it's opt-in.

Re: They are free to choose, as are you

[Aighearach]

And if you think users should be required to search for this info about every new aite before clicking a new link to decide if it's worth it to visit, you're absolutely fucking insane.

If you don't already know you trust the destination, don't click the link. That's my advice.

Also, if you're walking down the sidewalk and you see a door ajar, and don't know what is inside, don't go in. And if somebody is standing on the sidewalk asking you to come in, and you weren't already going to that place? Don't go in.

If you don't know where you're going, don't go yet. If you're going out for a walk, just keep walking until you're done, don't stop to randomly consume something because somebody said, "hey, stuff to consume, right here, you don't know what's in it but who cares!" If you didn't know you needed, you probably didn't need it.

To you, this might sound "absolutely fucking insane." To me it actually sounds like the default best practices that have been the same for thousands of years... or maybe millions.

If I'm walking in the woods and I see a juicy ripe berry, if I know what it is I might eat it. If I don't know what it is, I'm not going to eat it. If I'm going to run out and get a guidebook and find out what it is, I'm a nerd. Simple, easy stuff. They control you by tricking you into thinking it is something new.

What is your privacy worth?

[Anonymous Coward]

Apparently the 'cost' of your subscription is not only the fee but your loss of privacy. Consider the two together and ask yourself if what you will get (access to the site) is worth the cost. There is no 'right' answer to get from others, how do *you* feel about this? Would you suggest you might be a 'big baby' if you thought charging you $1000 a month was outrageous for access to their site? Of course not. I wouldn't pay for the privilege of being a glorified lab rat. Why would you?.

Re:What is your privacy worth?

[HiThere]

But *do* remember that they aren't just going to collect the information, they're going to sell it to others who will correlate it with information collected on other sites. Anonymized data generally isn't. Usually you can determine a particular person from only a very few pieces of nominally anonymous data.

OTOH, you also have to ask yourself "How much is this invasion of privacy going to add to what has already been collected about me?" You can't really consider even officially secret information, like say health records, to be safe. It's usually allowed that some "sufficiently anonymized" extract of the data can be shared, and that "sufficiently anonymized" extract is usually enough to tie them to you personally. How much groups bother to do this isn't clear. So far all I've heard is of populations being targeted, not individual people, and for that even actual anonymous data would probably suffice. (OTOH, another poster claimed that custom ads were targeted at individuals. If you believe him, then the anonymity is frequently violated...and it seems readily doable.)

Please note, though, that much of this information about you you can't control, because it's in the hands of other people, and the groups that they are part of care even less for your privacy than the laws require them to.

Tracking is a tool

[Anonymous Coward]

It can be used for other stuff other than advertisement. Some use it to improve the user experience. Others use it in order to know when/how/where to run their own ad campaign next.

To be honest, just by visiting a website you are being "tracked". Usually what I more concerned about is who is doing the tracking. It is homebrewed, or something like piwik logged to a private server? Then I am fine. Are they using Google analytics or some data hungy vendor? Then I worry!

Re: Tracking is a tool

[GigaplexNZ]

It can be used for other stuff other than advertisement. <snip&gt: Others use it in order to know when/how/where to run their own ad campaign next.

That's still using it for the purposes of advertising...

Re:Tracking is a tool

[indi0144]

WTF are you talking about? Tracking is badd, fuck money, tracking and advertising is the root of all evil here on earth, why would you even dare to insinuate that any form of tracking have any use at all, if anything, tracking allows me to differentiate from the common luser and wave my adblock-e-cock in way that would make a vegetarian or cross-fit evangelist blush.

If anything what we really need to do is increase the number of adblocking options, and add more "pay-to-whitelist" options in them, so we can justify spending even more time with set ups so elaborate that can flip a switch or two in the NSA, yeah, we totally need to worry more about the capabilities and long term vision of a pop and mom tracking shop that our good fellows in the gov that swallow all our internet activities whole-pipe-in-mouth, because kids and turrurists.

END OFF SARCASM

I'm a legit paranoid guy, but really, reading the comments in any article about tracking makes me realize how retarded should I look to everyone I know when I go for my justification of why I don't do X thing, only thing clear here is that we have a lot of free time to worry about inane stuff, you should know better by know and assume FULL TIME FULL BORE ANAL PROVE TRACKING from the both groups of people that just want to know you better to spoil you better, ya all missed a memo in 2003.

Re:Tracking is a tool

[KGIII]

LOL That, my good sir, is literary gold. That's prose of the highest order - and I'm not being sarcastic at all.

It had the makings of one of the literary greats. I laughed, I cried, I thought, I was scared, and I felt a sense of conquest.

Someone up above was asserting that cookies were malware. That web beacons were malware. *sighs* We, we here at /. are supposed to be the tech geniuses.

(We got to genius and got confused for genus and so we're stuck at homo.)

I kid, I kid... I'll go lay down next to my dish.

Re:Tracking is a tool

[Anonymous Coward]

Some use it to improve the user experience

legitimate use, perhaps.. but the number of sites, software, and companies that do that, and ONLY that, without any extraneous data collection or violating users' privacy, you can probably count on one hand.

Tracking, they will sell your foolishnes

[EmperorOfCanada]

They will sell the fact that you are a paying subscriber to all the other publications that are in their family. You will be traded around like a two dollar whore. By paying for one publication they will try to squeeze every damn cent out of you.

The few times that I have subscribed to a magazine, I can't even begin to count how much crap they sent me to upgrade, give their publication as a gift, to buy addons, to buy similar magazines, and then as my subscriptions ran out, the near non-stop torrent to hold onto me as a customer were making up a sizeable chunk of my weekly paper mail.

Even consumer reports which is supposed to be above the commercial fray was only a hair from sending missionaries to my door to convert me back to their flock of subscribers. One science publication kept sending me letters of ever growing desperation saying that these letters were killing them and that it would be better if I renewed my subscription earlier than cost them so much sending these out.

For you tracking will be so last year, it will be stalking, hunting, and all around sharks who smell blood behaviour.

Re:Tracking, they will sell your foolishnes

[FrankHaynes]

They will sell the fact that you are a paying subscriber to their trusted partners.

FIXED!

Re:Tracking, they will sell your foolishnes

[Aighearach]

Absolutely! There is no way I'm going to subscribe to anything. Then they know who I am, and that I spent money. It is worse than clicking "unsubscribe" instead of "spam."

I kept buying magazines right up until they stopped selling them (the ones I used to buy) in brick-and-mortar stores. The available magazines seem to mostly be full of fluff and advertising. Presumably most of the subscribers don't actually read them, they just like having some recent stuff on the coffee table, ideally with a few pictures.

Re:Tracking, they will sell your foolishnes

[Ol Olsoc]

Even consumer reports which is supposed to be above the commercial fray was only a hair from sending missionaries to my door to convert me back to their flock of subscribers. One science publication kept sending me letters of ever growing desperation saying that these letters were killing them and that it would be better if I renewed my subscription earlier than cost them so much sending these out.

Sounds familiar. I was at one time, during the dark ages, , a subscriber to AOL. My bills became outrageous. I tried to figure it out with them, but they took a "Not our Problem" approach. Finally, I figured out they were not giving me the X number of minutes free that I was paying for, and charging me for every minute I was on line. So With more effort than unsubbing to Comcast, I unsubscribed. Then the onslaught began. Weekly letters, weekly AOL Diskettes, then CD's. Phone calls. "We want you back" relentless pressure. As I explained to them in one of the phone calls, they were spending more to get me back than if they had just adjusted my incorrect bills.

For you tracking will be so last year, it will be stalking, hunting, and all around sharks who smell blood behaviour.

Perhaps for him. If the intertoobz get that bad for me, I'll do something else with my time. When I've tried accessing the internet without ad and script blockers, it feels like I'm on a 14.4 modem. Do not want.

Re:Tracking, they will sell your foolishnes

[Anonymous Coward]

well this happens IRL as well. years ago subscribed to a monthly payment to amnesty international. in the months that followed I was spammed with physical mail from many many other charities using pretty underhand tactics. some sent a set of charity xmas cards then suggest I pay £5 for them. another send 12p I think taped to a letter. multiple times. in the hope that because they lost money sending me the letter i'd send them some money back.

and free pens. so.many.free.pens.

in the end I cancelled. and reading so many things about dodgy charities in Private Eye (including very large ones) and a disagreement with a lot of religious based charities (oxfam for a start), i'd have to think long and hard about subscribing to any again.

Re:Tracking, they will sell your foolishnes

[KGIII]

You always, always wait until the very last possible chance (you're on your last issue) and they will (nearly invariably) send you a special price to renew your subscription for pennies on the dollar. I've been subscribing to dead-tree magazines this way for years. I don't even really care about saving the money - it's just general principle and I like having the magazines - and I put 'em all nice and neat in a section in my "library" (only word I've got for it) when I'm done reading the interesting bits.

Sometimes I end up missing an issue - very seldom do I miss two. But I wait and they'll send me something like an advert to resubscribe for something like $6 bucks for the next year or $10 for the next two years and I'll pay the $10 and be able to get Smithsonian for another 2 years. Even National Geographic does it and Time is a sucker for doing it. Or maybe I'm the sucker? I don't know but I get a weekly Time magazine and I never pay more than $10 or so for a year's subscription.

Yeah, they slog my name all over and all that but I don't care. Sometimes I get killer deals - like the magazine thing. I love me some magazines. It works for nearly all of them, Road & Track, Automobile, Time, National Geographic, Smithsonian, and a half-dozen others. They sit around about the house getting read for a month and then I put the old ones into the appropriate spot on the shelves and put the new ones out.

Right now it's not quite like that. Once a month I get a box of mail sent down to me - I won't be getting any more. I'm still stuffing 'em in my trunk and I'll bring them home and stick 'em on my shelves. I'll be returning home this coming week, finally. So, no more mail shipments. But, still... I've been doing this for I don't know how long - a long time. Once they get you as a subscriber, they hate to lose you. If they think they're going to lose you then they really want to keep you.

See, having their number of paid subscribers up means they can sell their ad space for more. So, I end up paying almost nothing, certainly less than they're worth, for some decent publications that I skim/read and share with guests. It's become almost like a game... How long can I let it wait and how low will they go before I end up waiting so long that I miss an issue? It turns out, you can get 'em pretty damned low.

Re:Tracking, they will sell your foolishnes

[KGIII]

https://www.charitywatch.org/h...

It says America but it's still valid for you. There's likely a UK (?) equivalent.

Re:Tracking, they will sell your foolishnes

[Anonymous Coward]

Then the onslaught began. Weekly letters, weekly AOL Diskettes, then CD's. Phone calls. "We want you back" relentless pressure

Here is a random funny.: I went to high school with Ed Case, brother of AOL founder Steve Case. In the 90s, Ed Case ran for the state house of representatives. His campaign lifted the school's alumni email list and spammed it. I gave them all righteous shit for it - his campaign, my school alumni office and his ISP (which was operated by a friend of mine). They apologized and said it would never happen again. Next election cycle when he ran for governer it happened again. At least it was enough for the ISP to cancel his campaign account, and he lost the election which seemed like karmic justice to me.

Re:Tracking, they will sell your foolishnes

[Anonymous Coward]

You actually don't have to pay anything. There are tons of freebie sites like http://slickdeals.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=13

I've been getting over 50 magazine subs for the last 10 years or so, for nothing. If I don't read them, then I take them to my library's free magazine bin and someone else takes them to read.

Re:Tracking, they will sell your foolishnes

[Anonymous Coward]

After many experiences similar to yours I've become very cautious about donating to any charity and will only do so now when I can guarantee my anonymity.

Tracking? Ahahahaa

[Anonymous Coward]

I've seen sites be so bold as to say "we support this site with cookies so by continuing to use this site we assume you're ok with our policy" and about 5 seconds later my blockers stop them, and I use clean&clear to scour every last cookie from my computer every time I switch pages or close the browser.

Advertisers can suck it. You've abused the consumer for far too long and ruined it for everyone else. Now I'll never agree to or trust anything marketing related again. If it breaks your site for me, I find another site. If your product requires it. I don't buy your product.

FUCK YOU SLASHDOT

[Anonymous Coward]

No apologies for the subject. Advertisers and the sites doing business with the advertisers (like Forbes) have screwed over the consumers too long. They've served us malware, tracked us without permission, and sold that information to the highest bidder. We get screwed.

And Slashdot is no better. They're running this story critical of janrain.com while simultaneously serving up a janrain.com tracker. That's rich. Plenty of people have volunteered to subscribe and support Slashdot. Get rid of the trackers, run normal animated GIFs that don't track us, and let us subscribe to pay the bills. Otherwise, you're hypocrites and are abusing consumers as much as anyone.

Shitposting.

[idbeholda]

Lots and lots of shitposting.

Not surprised

[NicBenjamin]

The content of Slate is some of my favorite on the internet, but every time I try to interact with anything technical it pisses the fuck out of me. Their comments system is horrible, and won't even load half the time. The commenters themselves seem to be pretty good, but participating in the conversation is a nightmare.

So I am not surprised at all the back-end designed by whomever the English Majors hired requires some weird-ass obscure tracking software that's more then a wee skoch shady.

Subscribe to Slashdot and be tracked 24/7

[Anonymous Coward]

It is a given.

Should you expect tracking?

[mbone]

Yes.

You Are The Customer

[rtb61]

The easiest answer to the question of whether or not you find it acceptable is, whether or not your find it acceptable. Don't like it stop being their customer. Still somewhat interested, inform them of the reason you stopped being their customer and check back every now and again to see if they change, until either you get bored coming back to check and stop or they change. There are just, so, so many choices out there and it will only grow, especially with accurate auto-translators on the horizon, content available from all over the world.

For me either the web site is OK and they get cookies and scripts or they are not and 'no cookies for you'. This extends to publishing houses (kill off everyone of their websites cookies and scripts) to advertising agencies (kill off their cookies and scripts no matter where they are).

What ever you preference is as a customer should always drive your choices on the internet ie Don't like that they promote wasteful consumption of fossil fuels, drop them and go else where, there are thousands upon thousands of other places to go. Don't like the politics of the owner, drop them, there is an whole internet of alternates. Don't like the products they promote, simply go elsewhere. You can also choose whether or not to let them know why. Don't forget https://www.google.com.au/?cli... , it really is just so easy.

Re:You Are The Customer

[KGIII]

Let me see... I shouldn't do this in public but I'm going to potentially fail big here...

Your name is Robert. You use Ubuntu. You live in Australia, specifically Adelaide. I believe your middle name is Tony but perhaps that's a nickname. Your last name, well, it begins with the letter B. (We'll let folks who wish to dig a bit deeper do so on their own) I could go off on a personality profile and probably be fairly accurate but you'd take offense as you deem yourself an intellectual and believe yourself to be intelligent - I'll not debate that, it's not my job to say.

Why would you worry about privacy? You put your information out there for everyone to see already. That took me 3 minutes - yes, I timed it and limited myself. I was actually done about 40 second early - you're a goofy looking fella now aren't you? I'm not sure why you tell people you're retired... Well, you might have a strange definition for it. To each their own, I suppose and all that. It took a WHOIS, a trip to Google, an image search, two links, and I think I might have an address.

It's okay. I've not only posted my address, full name, pictures, and all that but I invited the entirety of Slashdot to my house for New Year's Eve so that we could set off explosives. Only three of them came and only two were able to bring their family. So, I'm not very well hidden either. ;-)

How'd I do?

Re:You Are The Customer

[rtb61]

Well, I would hardly lazily use my initials and year of birth If I was particularly concerned. As for the rest, others have dug far deeper with nefarious intent and still without much concern on part, even direct in person stuff and active digital intrusions. As for the personal insults, it's the internet, so what's new, overall, pretty lame but hey worth a shot I suppose if you are into that but that's just your nature, your guilt expressing itself upon others, viewing the negatives in yourself as being expressed by others. Retired http://www.merriam-webster.com..., pretty accurately describes my current state of lack of need or desire for employment. So I am not sure what you are intending, as for potential desire, sure I suppose being paid a lot for doing a little is always a thought to be entertained, if you are intending to imply that my retirement is impermanent for some reason.

Does a bear shit in the woods?

[jmcvetta]

Is the Pope Catholic?

OF FUCKING COURSE you're going to be tracked. Fuck you, pleb, that's why.

Minimizing Tracking

[DERoss]

The short answer to the original question is "Yes, they can and will track you."

However, you can making tracking very difficult. The following is what I do. This for those who use Firefox or SeaMonkey as their browser on a Windows system. NOTE WELL the exception.

1. Mark the file cookies.sqlite as read-only. For "smooth" Web browsing, I do want some cookies. To set or update them, I terminate my browser, mark cookies read-write, launch my browser to visit ONLY the Web site for which I want cookies, terminate my browser to eliminate session-only cookies, and restore the read-only setting for cookies.sqlite. Web site might act as if they were setting cookies, but those cookies are lost when I terminate my browser.

2. Disable geolocation. For all of my profiles, I insert the following into file user.js:
                  user_pref("geo.enabled", false);
  The semi-colon (;) at the end of the line is mandatory. You can insert an adjacent comment line indicating why you did this; just begin the comment with two virgules (//).

3. Install the Secret Agent extension from https://www.dephormation.org.u.... Each time I request a Web page, my outgoing Internet headers are different. Some sites that try to use those headers to determine my location have me bouncing all over the world. Every time I go to Panopticlick at https://panopticlick.eff.org/, I get a different result. Two NOTES: (1) Because some Web sites require consistent user agents as you navigate through them, I disabled the extension's capability to vary my user agent string. (2) Because Firefox now requires extensions to be signed by Mozilla and the developer of Secret Agent refuses to submit his extension for signature, this cannot be installed in Firefox. Unsigned extensions can still be installed in SeaMonkey.

Re:Minimizing Tracking

[Anonymous Coward]

> user_pref("geo.enabled", false);

This is generally useless. Unless you're using a VPN or Tor or something, they get your general neighborhood from your public IP address anyway. Thank you, MaxMind..

Re:Minimizing Tracking

[Anonymous Coward]

If using a PC without wifi or GPS, location services are going to give a IP geolocation too, no?

Anyways, geolocators figure I'm in a city that's just outside the Greater Toronto Area, instead of smack dab in the center of it, so that's... OK.

Re:Minimizing Tracking

[Anonymous Coward]

just begin the comment with two virgules (//).

What do you think this is, virgule-dot?

Re:Minimizing Tracking

[radish]

1. Isn't it easier to just run in incognito mode? That has the same effect (cookies are only set in memory, never written to disk).
2. Pointless. Geolocation is done via IP address, so you'd need a VPN to confuse that.
3. I've never heard of geolocation via "internet headers"...fingerprinting yes...but not location. That plugin is a nice idea for defeating fingerprints...but a lot of those options sound kinda pointless. Messing with the etag/cache-control headers will very possibly mean you see inconsistent content - and saying a redirect "indicates surveillance" is funny - if someone was intercepting your traffic they'd use something more sophisticated than a 302 :)

Re:Minimizing Tracking

[Anonymous Coward]

I think you're making your life unnecessarily difficult with your cookie routine. Just set your browser to never accept cookies then install the Cookie Cutter Firefox extension, which will give you an icon which allows you to quickly whitelist any site you actually WANT to allow cookies for. It allows you to choose to accept them permanently or temporarily and if you want you can prevent them persisting.

And for even greater privacy, install the hosts file from someonewhocares.org which will blackhole thousands of known tracking/spyware sites.

Re:Minimizing Tracking

[dhasenan]

If you check the site, you'll see the extension adds an 'X-Forwarded-For' header with a random IP address. This tells the server on the far end that you're using a VPN and your real IP address is that random value.

That requires the site's tracking stuff to be moderately smart (to know about the header in the first place) but not terribly smart (or it would look up the owner IP on the far end of the connection and, if it's a residential ISP, trust that rather than a randomly generated IP address).

Omitting etag and cache control headers will make sites less efficient. If you don't enable javascript on untrusted sites, it shouldn't affect correctness. If you do enable javascript and people are using etags rather than query parameters to handle incremental updates, you might get strange results. (Like if gchat were doing this, you might find yourself getting a lot of chat history on each request, as if you had a full conversation every second or two.)

Altering etag and cache control headers to some time further in the past than the last time you loaded a file will result in less inefficiency.

This is why many browsers is a very good thing

[brwski]

Use particular browsers for particular sites. A feature I'd love for a browser to have would be something in-between the "everything goes" mode and Incognito mode. Something that siloed each site, letting it store data from itself but not see what anything else was doing, would be absolutely fantastic. Each site you visited would be told, in effect, that the only site you ever visited was theirs.

Re: This is why many browsers is a very good thing

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not quite so convenient, but Firefox has profiles with a unique cache and unique history (I believe). Would switching between profiles accomplish that functionality to some degree? Your idea makes a ton of sense and I hope you get modded up.

Use a cookie killer.

[wvmarle]

I don't bother too much blocking tracker cookies as upon closing a tab all cookies that belong to it are automatically removed as well. So tracking is limited to the one site that sends these cookies (and they don't need that to follow me on their site), and whatever I may happen to use in the other tabs that time and that happens to use the same tracker service. This should allow me to log in to Slate Plus, accepting all tracker cookies, but seconds after I close the tab those trackers are gone just the same.

There are indeed those "super cookies" and so, but nothing is perfect. It does prevent me wasting lots of time trial-and-erroring which of the dozen I have to allow to get logged in or whitelisting anything but sites I really want a persistent login or so (not many thanks to LastPass taking care of logging in again and again painlessly).

Re:Use a cookie killer.

[Anonymous Coward]

> So tracking is limited to the one site that sends these cookies

This took me a while to stop laughing. Many of the cookies are for companies like "doublick.net", which uses a hell of a lot of distinct aliases to avoid domain based filters, and which merges and sells the information collected by the back end of their systems. Google does the same, but they're a bit more upfront about what is Google and what is not. And Doublick especially collaborates with Akamai, which is the core verndor side proxy service o fhe Internet. Even non-profits use Akamai: block them, and you've just blocked a *lot* of services worldwide.

Re:Use a cookie killer.

[wvmarle]

Third-party cookies are blocked at browser level, and the cookie killer isn't that dumb. It knows which cookies come from opening which site, so can handle those as well.

I subscribe, but ...

[Anonymous Coward]

I subscribe to the New York Times. I believe in supporting what I think is valuable content. However, I will not be tracked. I have never logged on, I just enjoy the "free" articles and continually delete cookies to reset my free articles. Someday they'll change their site to not show content until I log on, but until then I'll try and work around their attempts to track me.

Are you using Windows OS?

[Anonymous Coward]

If you are, you are being tracked.

paying for slate

[Anonymous Coward]

There's your problem right there..

You Don't Want to Accept Satan Into Your Life?

[Anonymous Coward]

What are you some sort of anti-heathen? Tracking for any purpose is unholy and anti-divine. Allow this. Satan will be pleased. And you want to please Satan, don't you?

no

[Anonymous Coward]

Always use something to block tracking and advertisements. End of story.

Re:no

[Anonymous Coward]

Always use something to block tracking and advertisements. End of story.

Alternatively, you could just delete all cookies both before and after you visit a website; don't forget to delete persistent cookies. If you feel a bit paranoid--as I am--you can also empty your browser cache both before and after visiting their website. This would do much the same thing, without having to install the adblockers. I don't bother with these steps for most websites I visit, mostly just the sites that are "sensitive" in nature (e.g., banking websites, etc.). That should solve a rather large chunk of the problem. Of course, this isn't completely foolproof; it turns out that many ISPs are attaching unique identifiers to your webpage visits, so don't roam the web with the illusion that you are anonymous.

Janrain and Slashdot

[Anonymous Coward]

Looks like Slashdot is also using janrain, although ghostery blocked it for me and I dont have any trouble with this site. Even after using tracking cookie blockers and the like, its still possible to track individual users just based on the unique signature they have when they browse online. From the sites you view and the times you view them at, to the software and plugins you have loaded to browse the internet. They are all aspects of your digital fingerprint, and blocking all the tracking cookies and sites in the world cant change that unfortunately.

https://panopticlick.eff.org/

That site will show you just how unique you really are online, even without tracking cookies.

No freedom to choose the model that is NOT there

[shanen]

The current model of push-based advertising is insane. There is NO limit to how much of your time they would be willing to consume. Even if they are consuming 100% of your attention and free time, they would only respond by shifting the focus to higher margin goods and services. (NEVER again Amazon!)

The financial model I want to support would be pull driven. I would specify what good and services I want to buy and how much time I want to spend considering the options, and then the legitimate companies would bid for my time to consider what they have. The intermediary handling the auction could have additional personal information, and they could use that information to boost the value of the auctions based on my qualifications as a potential customer, but the intermediary would have a strong interest in protecting my privacy and keeping my information secure because that is protecting their OWN position in future auctions. If they leak my personal information, they are cutting themselves out of the deal. (I would also want a setting to get at least 3 companies' offers.)

The interesting question is how to divide the proceeds of the auctions, and this is where the competition between intermediaries should take place. One intermediary might pay a higher percentage directly back to the users, but I would be more likely to consider an auctioneer who offered a balanced package of services, including spammer killing and a fraction of the proceeds that is used to pay for REAL journalism instead of the advertiser-driven click-bait crap we see these days.

By the way, a similar approach could be applied even on slashdot. Details (if speculative) available upon (polite) request.

References and similar material?

[shanen]

Should be a place for related books and references on such a rich topic. Currently reading "Future Crimes", which is highly relevant to this topic. The discussion also reminded me of "The Filter Bubble" and I just remembered "The Future of the Internet" and "Who Owns the Future?" as related books.

BFD?

[Runaway1956]

Those profiles can't be used for political purposes? They can't be used for "police" purposes? In short, the "powers that be" should be able to track you under any circumstances? And, you don't believe that there are any potential injustices to worry about?

Let us try to get a grip on reality here. Knowledge is power. Information is a tool with which to wield power. You are giving away power over yourself. And, you gain NOTHING in return.

Which is kinda funny in a way. Females have been trying to gain power over their lives for many decades now. Here, we have a female saying BFD when it is pointed out that corporations and government alike are seeking ever more power over you.

Filed in the "Things that make you go "HMMMMM"" folder.

Re:BFD?

[BarbaraHudson]

The only way that information gives someone power over you is if you let them. It's the same as any other blackmail scheme. The minute you say BFD when someone threatens to release information about you to coerce you into doing something, they have lost.

Now, if they have lost, I have gained - freedom of action, independent thought, and self esteem. But the first step, like always, is to not give a damn when someone is trying to use knowledge about you against you. And I don't give a damn. Let them track me - they're wasting their time. Political purposes? Give me a break. Police purposes? First, I'd have to break a law or three.

I'm not a slave, I have no dirty little secrets, but you certainly sound like someone who cares if YOUR secrets are known.

Re:BFD?

[Runaway1956]

"If you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men, I will find something in them which will hang him." -Richlieu

You need not break a law for law enforcement to get interested in you. Nor do you need to break a law for those who are politically motivated to get interested in you. Have you ever attended a rally to either support, or to defeat, a nominee? Are you not associated with any kind of activists? Not even to the "6th degree"?

I have my secrets, and they stay secret, because I don't share them with anyone. I don't make confessions to clergy, the wife, the kids, coworkers, and certainly not to Facebook, or any of the other social media. And, I damned sure won't permit any shadowy corporation in on my secrets, if at all possible. If they get my secrets, they're going to have work a hell of a lot harder than installing crapware on my computer along with some subscription.

Most people have secrets. Some of those secrets aren't really very important, but as you point out, learning those secrets gives a people power over that person, in most cases. Pretty much all men and women are sexual creatures, who learned by experimentation. Most of them would be devastated to have the details of their early explorations made public. Probably not you, and almost certainly not me, but most people would be. We've ALL done embarrassing things, at some point in our lives.

Re:BFD?

[BarbaraHudson]

As George Carlin would say, Richelieu was FULL OF SHIT.

This is an idle boast that sounds good, but let's try it in practice ... oops, it doesn't work because Richelieu was FULL OF SHIT.

Yes, people can use your secrets to blackmail you - so the best thing is to not have secrets. Don't give a damn about it because other people are the same or worse.

I don't care if I have the attention of the police. Seriously, I would LIKE to have the attention of the police. Make it a bit easier to stop the next sexual assault as it happens. But that's not going to happen.

Re:BFD?

[Aighearach]

Most people have secrets. Some of those secrets aren't really very important...

Historically, the worst abuses have been based on things that weren't secrets until society and government changed drastically, and people started getting killed for what didn't used to be dangerous or secret. That's what I worry about; the future state of society is a known unknown! I have no idea if a fascist regime will take over in ten years and start killing people "like me." That's why I don't want too much information about me to be in databases. Especially where the short-term benefit of the information is to a corporation, not to me personally. I'd rather limit the information about me to what is required to manage government services, plus what I choose to share about myself because I decide it benefits me to share it.

I have no idea what data about me needs to be secret in the future, but I do know what data about me is personal and my own business. So that is the basis that I have to go on in managing the risk. Maybe it sounds paranoid, but my ancestors invaded my other ancestors countries multiple times and took all their land and killed a bunch of my cousins. To me it all feels personal and recent. Why am I an American? Because my ancestors successfully escaped my other ancestors! I'm descended from those paranoid enough to get out before they blocked the harbor.

Re:BFD?

[Runaway1956]

Not paranoid at all - it sounds realistic to me. And, all of us with European blood have similar stories. Most people today have forgotten the many armies that swept back and forth over Europe throughout history. They believe that it can't happen again. And, they believe that it can't happen here. Politics. It's always about politics - some royalty, or someone who thinks that they should be royal, finds some "cause" with which to recruit some crazies, and off we go into yet another war.

Yes dipshit

[Osgeld]

Simple test to tell of your being tracked

Are you using the internet? Then yes retard you are being tracked

Why do sites need so many trackers?

[caseih]

I always wonder why sites need so many trackers. I've seen sights that served up more than a dozen tracker scripts. I wouldn't doubt if the actual content was dwarfed by the tracker scripts. Several times sites have failed to load because a tracker script was slow to download. Thank goodness for Ghostery. Running Ghostery is a real eye opener, to say nothing of a requirement for safe web browsing in my opinion.

Re:Why do sites need so many trackers?

[arth1]

Thank goodness for Ghostery. Running Ghostery is a real eye opener, to say nothing of a requirement for safe web browsing in my opinion.

Given that with Ghostery, you have to access their web site to change settings and give them plenty of information, I'd say no. That's spying on its users too. Even if you don't opt in to share information about the sites you visit, you still send them the information about what you have chosen to block and unblock, which is doing the advertiser's job for them. So you don't like cosmetics ads but are okay with car ads? Great of you to tell them, so their partners can better tailor your "experience".
Or you block a tracker that is only found on web sites dealing with neighborhood crime, bail bonds and refinancing? Great - now lenders can drop 5 points off the credit score for the area your IP address is in.

I'm not saying that the Ghostery guys are that bad, or that lenders are that smart. But you're handing them data that can be used, and not in your best interest.

When choosing a blocking service, make sure it's one that does not rely on a remote server for anything except sending you the same updates it sends everyone else. If it offers anything like a web based control panel, synchronization between machines, or remote verification of domains or URLs, run for the hills. They're doing what they claim to protect you from: data mining you.

Re:Why do sites need so many trackers?

[andymadigan]

[quote]with Ghostery, you have to access their web site to change settings[/quote]

The settings page built-in to the Ghostery extension is not part of their website, just as it isn't for uBlock, Adblock Plus, or any of the other extensions that use the same mechanism for settings.

As for giving them information, even if Ghostery does know what trackers you've blocked (and I'm not sure they do) - which trackers you've blocked doesn't tell them much, certainly not what your interests are. Besides, why wouldn't you just block all the trackers?

Re:Why do sites need so many trackers?

[caseih]

As other poster said, Ghostery blocks and configures locally. It doesn't rely on a service, and you don't have to synchronize between machines. Ghostery can do that if you create a login, but that's completely optional. And if it becomes not the case (like when the Readability plugin jumped shark), it can be forked. I'm not giving anyone any information when I change settings.

Furthermore Ghostery's defaults are very simple and when first turned on almost all users just block all ad trackers with one click.

Anyway until Ghostery is forked, so far it's relatively safe to be used. Safer than not using it anyway.

Re:Why do sites need so many trackers?

[arth1]

As for giving them information, even if Ghostery does know what trackers you've blocked (and I'm not sure they do) - which trackers you've blocked doesn't tell them much, certainly not what your interests are.

You would be correct if all trackers operated on all sites. They don't. Some trackers only operate on specific sites, and blocking the tracker when you encounter it is telling that you visit those sites.

Besides, why wouldn't you just block all the trackers?

As this very thread blurb makes clear, some sites will not work without trackers. And the Ghostery people themselves also note this, and recommend adjusting the settings to allow sites to work.

Re:Why do sites need so many trackers?

[andymadigan]

You can make it so a given tracker is enabled only on a specific site. I suppose knowing which sites you've enabled trackers on would allow someone to know which sites you visit, but that only holds if the Ghostery extension uploads your configuration to the Ghostery servers. Do you have any evidence that it does?

Make up your own mind, peon

[drinkypoo]

And become a king. Make a fucking executive decision.

Only you can decide to have a spine.

Yes.

[antdude]

It doesn't matter if it is free or not. They will always be tracking you!

Similar situation with Slate.com

[Maow]

I had an unpaid account to comment there, via LiveFyre.

All other unnecessary 3rd party domains were blocked.

One day the "Sign In" and "Sign Up" links presented blank panels.

I poked around a bit, and quickly gave up.

I rarely commented, enjoyed "moderating" others' comments, but just wasn't worth it.

This article had me go back and allow JanRain - still no work.

Unlike the submitter, I find Slate's content fairly unimpressive, but the commentors - they're great. There are a lot of very clever, very humorous people there in the comment threads. When reading, ensure always sorted by "Hot Topics".

I'll admit a guilty pleasure is reading the comments in the "Dear Prudence" column. Brilliantly witty, sarcastic, hilarious.

Slate.com also has some decent podcasts and are really trying to move into the forefront of that field.

They have some good ones, but I'm down to listening to only one regularly now: The Gist with Mike Pesca.

Took me a while to get used to him, but he has some really clever closing segments (The Spiel?). He's also a daily ½ hour show, so there's always something new to listen to.

Anyway, tldr, I just lurk now and would be tempted to cash in the gift due to the onerous conditions of having to deal with 3rd parties that I have no relationship with.

do you even need to ask?

[cas2000]

it's completely unacceptable. tell the site to GFTS and demand a refund.

psychographic tracking

[Anonymous Coward]

I think there might be some danger that users who are uniquely identified could be vulnerable to intentional conditioning by certain website operators without necessarily being aware of what exactly they are being subjected to.

Re:psychographic tracking

[Anonymous Coward]

please mod parent up

If efficient markets depend on rational consumers making choices in their own best self interest, consumers need to know when and HOW they are "being branded" using an in depth predictive profile of their past behavior, as well as the power to opt out if they choose to do so based on a comprehensive understanding of what they are being subjected to.

Who cares.

[Anonymous Coward]

In this post - useless idiot is worried about session cookies but doesn't seem to actually understand anything about how the web works. How does this garbage make the front page.

Better question, Better answer

[Anonymous Coward]

Robot 5x asks: Is it unacceptable to have to accept being tracked as a paying customer for new sites? "Or am I just being a big baby?"

Yes, they can and will track you, but making it a sine qua non for service you paid for is a big no-no. In fact, this is illegal in a number of countries where privacy laws require that data collected has some sort of connection to a clear need to the collector outweighing the needs of the collectee. For "service delivery" there is no need to make logins depend on third-party trackers, and so is verboten.

In addition, the technical measures are just that, and not solutions to what clearly is a people problem. The people problem to the customer is that the service provider does ethically and legally questionable things and so needs to be told they're doing questionable things and to stop it already. Engaging them on the technical level is nothing more than a cat-and-mouse game that is entirely uninteresting outside playing that game.

That makes the answer, "yes, this is unacceptable, and do get that refund."

Slashdot and JanRain

[Anonymous Coward]

Just open a slashdot page in source mode. Search for "janrain". Weep.

Luckily, it all seems to be javascript, which (by default) is disabled in my browser (that one has to reach into the guts of the browser to disable javascript these days is appalling in itself, anyway).

just ignore sites requiring 3rd party cookies

[Anonymous Coward]

If a site does not work well enough without third-party cookies then do not use it. You do not even need ghostery.

Short answer

[JustAnotherOldGuy]

Short answer: Yes, of course you should expect tracking. I mean, who the fuck do you think you are? Now be quiet and let them monetize your clickstream, bitch.

"create a holistic view of your business by collecting, analyzing and reporting all customer interactions. To derive the most actionable insights, you must link your customers' actions with who they are and what their interests are. Janrain bridges the gap by connecting demographic and psychographic data, collected through traditional and social login, with Adobe's behavioral data, so you understand the whole customer journey."

I don't know what that means, and honestly I'm not sure that it really means anything. It seems that they're claiming that their data-driven insights will allow you to convince people to buy more shit, but somehow, I doubt it really works.

One website owner's perspective

[Anonymous Coward]

If you come into the store, but don't want any camera surveillance taken of you, you can't "opt-out" of being on camera. If you come into a website, and the website owners wish to know who is using the site, that is their prerogative. Just because you paid at the door doesn't mean we wave the right to kick you out of our establishment.

This is why I dislike advertisements

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't dislike ads. I realize they are necessary. They often let me know about new things I did not know existed.. What does bother me is the sheer number of adverts that:

* pop up over content
* auto play with sound
* scroll content while I'm reading

In any printed content, the advertisements come from the publisher, and publishers would often have advertising standards that must be met. On the web, site publishers have abdicated responsibility over how [visually] tasteful or disruptive advertisements are. Further, by allowing random unknown web servers to provide advertising content, they have facilitated drive-by virus infections or other pernicious nonsense.

This has led me to the installation of an adblocker. I'm sorry for doing this. I do not mean to suggest that content should be provided for free, or to steal something that cost time and money to create, but I am too occasional a reader of some websites to warrant a subscription.

If it is necessary to fund publishing via advertisements, then I think advertisements should be served from web servers owned by the content owner, out of the same domain where I am viewing the content. They can still track click-throughs. They can limit flash adverts, java, attachments, and other exploits. They can limit invasive popups, javascript, and the paranoia that follows tracking. They can exactly set how many rotations, views, or click-throughs an advert can get. They can accurately bill advertisers, and control what markets get what advertisements. They take back the control of product maintained in the print version, but surrendered in the web version.

I don't dislike advertisements (much), but I do dislike that I have been forced from the pasture where I consume into an abattoir where I am the product. It is a fallacy that magical tracking and massive consumer metrics and analysis will yield the innermost secrets, desires, and impulse purchase susceptibilities, and thus allow advertising wizards to manipulate consumers into buying against their own will.

By visiting a website, I in no way consented to a random algorithm following me around the web for months afterward, comparing me to other consumers in my ZIP code.

It is, frankly, stalker level creepy.

People are random and unpredictable. Embrace that. Give me advertisements, but stop popping suggestions in my face and following me around the web in hopes of making a sale. Visiting once does not mean I want a permanent relationship.

The Snake Oil Salesmen would be jealous

[Anonymous Coward]

Having come up against the same issues with online tracking, this use of invasive and exploitive tracking is one of the many 'snake oil remedy' attempts to extract revenue from any and every internet service and their public.

The problem with this sort of tracking is that it makes a great deal of money for the trackers who can sell the meta-data gathered by their rape and pillage approach to web browsers and websites, and offer nothing in comparitive return to the website content providers or users. It is an almost fantastical operation where for the cost of some low quality programming (i.e. Insecure and buggy at best) to create a product they can sell for millions a year on a service basis which then has TBs of leagally extorted meta-data on an global scale consumer population worth even more to advertisers and multinational corporations. And don't get started on what they want to do with the data. (Too depressing when it comes to thinking about having one's expectations managed for them on a global scale)

This is all the latest step in figuring out how to pull as much money as possible out of people using the Internet (viagra or Nigerian rep for a Swiss bank anyone?).

And just like the wiser folks at the carnival, it's best to keep on walking when the pitch man steps up and clears his throat.

but wait...

[Anonymous Coward]

JanRain comes up with SlashDot nowadays. One of an impressive list of outsider 'things' that want to be allowed when you read Slashdot.

PS - can't stand "collapsed" articles - where you just see the header.. and you HAVE to allow a few of these outsider beasts in for the click to work. I have more than once considered walking away from SD...

Lol

[Anonymous Coward]

You paid for a news web site? Why? It is 2016 - go read a free article on the same story.

You would surely notice

[BeeArt]

if anyone is tracking you on the toilet

Re:You would surely notice

[BarbaraHudson]

if anyone is tracking you on the toilet

That would be your wearables ... yet another reason not to waste money on them.

Go schizo on them

[laughingskeptic]

I maintain multiple personalities by using different browsers and starting browsers as different local users. Each personality has its own email account with an empty address book that receives unread spam. For my general web surfing and news reading I use this account. I couldn't care less how tracked it is, it has nothing to do with my work life or my personal life. In addition, I do not have any browser extensions installed for most of these personalities.

Expect? Yes. Accept? your choice.

[RockDoctor]

If you don't like it, don't take up the subscription, and return the "gift" to the friend with a note to tthe effect of : "Thanks, it was a nice idea ; I was sufficiently interested to try to take it up. but after some of the things that site tried to do [give details], I've decided that I'd rather boil my own sex organs than read it on a regular basis. You should be able to get your money back, or exchange it for a different subscription."

Virgules!

[Anonymous Coward]

two virgules (//)

Welcome to virguledot!