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Linux Mint 18 Will Ship Without Multimedia Support (linuxmint.com)
An anonymous reader quotes this report from Distrowatch: Linux Mint 18 will no longer provide separate, codec-free installation media for OEM and magazine distribution. Instead, the distribution will ship without multimedia support while making it easy for users to acquire media codecs during the initial installation of the operating system. "OEM installation disks and NoCodec images will no longer be released. Instead, similar to other distributions, images will ship without codecs and will support both traditional and OEM installations. This will reduce our release cycle to 4 separate events and the production and testing of 12 ISO images. Multimedia codecs can be installed easily: From the welcome screen, by clicking on "Multimedia Codecs", or from the main menu, by clicking on "Menu"->"Sound and Video"->"Install Multimedia Codecs", or during the installation process, by clicking a checkbox option." Additional information on the upcoming release of Linux Mint 18 can be found in the project's monthly newsletter.
Softpedia points out that they're using Ubuntu 16.04 LTS as the package base, meaning "more hardware devices and components are now supported."
Softpedia points out that they're using Ubuntu 16.04 LTS as the package base, meaning "more hardware devices and components are now supported."
Wasn't this story here yesterday? Or was it just in every other tech website on the internet?
Every time I install a new version of Ubuntu or even Fedora it's time to play a game of "is it open source enough?" Take pdftk or xv for example: still work great, still got dropped from every official repository. ffmpeg? Celestia? Fuggeddabout it.
First!!
LMDE has had inconsistent releases. I'm not sure if they figured out whether they were pulling from testing or rolling their own packages. The Linux Mint website was hacked to distribute malware. Linux Mint devs managed to create some package name conflicts with upstream. I read they are holding off on systemd for now, but plan to switch at some point, a position calculated to annoy everyone. There are equally simple ways to get a distro with Cinnamon, and now they're not packaging multimedia libraries any more.
I'm out of reasons to consider installing Linux Mint, I think. Are there more positives/negatives I'm missing? Or can we just write them off at this point?
Those who advocate genocide deserve every protection afforded by law, and none afforded by common human decency.
Sometimes it's hard not to play said "game of 'is it open source enough?'". One cases of this happens when a distributor gets cease and desist notices from patent holders, which I imagine would be especially relevant to FFmpeg or the codecs of TFA.
in the project's monthly newsletter.
in the project's monthly newsletter. FTFY
in the project's monthly newsletter.
in the project's monthly newsletter.
FTFY
Who even uses the OEM version of a Linux distro?
I mean, supposedly system builders that will sell the system? But I mean in real-life, who uses it?
Yes it will auto-upgrade to Mint Mobile, so you will be able to use your server/desktop as a phone too.
lucm, indeed.
...we'll get working support for nVidia graphics controllers?
I just threw in the towel trying to install it on this one machine here.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Linux Mint 18 will no longer provide separate, codec-free installation media for OEM and magazine distribution. Instead, the distribution will ship without multimedia support while making it easy for users to acquire media codecs during the initial installation of the operating system.
The OEM system install is essential to obtain measurable market share. Linus has said as much himself. Multimedia support out of the box is so essential in the consumer market space that excluding it from your OEM distribution is perfectly stupid.
Well, I read their blog post, and I'm having a hard time parsing it:
...although the absence of codecs is important for magazine and distributors and OEM installation images are required for manufacturers to pre-install Linux Mint on computers they’re selling to their customers, this is an area where a lot of work is done for a very small portion of our audience. With this in mind, OEM installation disks and NoCodec images will no longer be released. Instead, similar to other distributions, images will ship without codecs and will support both traditional and OEM installations.
So, to me, this sounds like: "Only a few of our users wanted us to leave the codecs out. So we decided it wasn't worth going to all that extra work all the time for just a few people. So we just took the codecs out of every build."
Am I just confused, or is this Bizarro logic? I mean, I'm definitely confused, but does this reasoning make sense to everyone else?
Did they just get sued by some the rightsholders of some patented codec, and just say, fuck it, if it's gonna be that kind of party, no codecs for anyone, ever? But if so, why wouldn't they just say that? What's with the doublethink? Is it doublethink?
I think I need a nap.
It looks like the free ride is over for most people. Thankfully I won't be one of the unlucky ones who has to download non-free codecs via clearnet. I mean shit, the codecs included in the ISO releases were one of, if not THE distro's go-to reasons. It was all right there on the LiveCD.
This huge change comes after the alleged compromise of their server(s). I wonder if there's more to the story, were they talked into codec removal? Bought into it?
Shit, I even read The Tor Project was allegedly provided funding/donation to include the Disconnect.me search engine, and you can check their hosting location(s) and privacy policies!
Now that there won't be any codecs baked into their ISOs, there is no pressing reason for me to continue downloading their ISOs. Sure, I could always download the codecs later and probably via Tor, but I could do the same with other distros.
Thank you, Linux Mint, but bye bye.
Bye bye.
Without addressing any of the merits of your various proposals: all technology is some sort of tradeoff. Your way may have some advantages compared to the "Unix Way", but there is no universally good option for any of these choices, and you should not pretend that there is. As a tiny example, the difference between GUI and CLI interfaces is that the former is discoverable and the latter is scriptable.
Neither Unix nor Windows nor you nor I have any monopoly on wisdom, but little or nothing in the OS world is as it is because people were ignorant of the alternatives. If you can't talk about the tradeoffs and conditions that produced each system, you don't know enough to talk about them, and you certainly don't get to dictate how things should be.
Mint has always seemed to be an offshoot of Ubuntu, so ... I'm using Mint with MATE in Virtualbox (Cinnamon doesn't work) under Windows 7 & 10 (still testing things). If I drop back to Ubuntu with MATE for the next upgrade (if that's possible?) what would I lose?
yeah, but mplayer isn't shit without the non-free codecs.
if you've ever visited the mplayer website you'll notice the codecs available for download are not FOSS and may open a can of legal worms for the people downloading them in the clear.
they are also changing/forking apps and changing their names, like the 'eog' app, for example.
I've been using Linux for years and distro hopped a lot, until I settled on Debian. I no longer trust Ubuntu/Canonical nor Linux Mint or any other spinoff from Debian.
I don't know whether or not the 'Ultimate' Linux distro contains the multimedia codecs, I only tried 'Ultimate' a few times and while it worked and included a ton of apps, it threw up some errors when the desktop loaded. Nothing big, but still annoying. On distrowatch the 'Ultimate' Linux distro has zero reviews for their releases. I find that strange.
Maybe because, IMO, their web forums are a mess and their desktop is kind of a mess, too, IMO, like someone just threw together a massive amount of software which may rival or surpass what KNOPPIX provide(s/ded). I find the name 'Ultimate' a little distasteful, too, as Debian is the ultimate distro for me, not 'Ultimate'.
"I'm out of reasons to consider installing Linux Mint, I think. Are there more positives/negatives I'm missing? Or can we just write them off at this point?"
Yes, IMO, there are many other negatives depending on the person. For me there is no compelling reason to use 18 from now on, and I don't trust their servers enough to even download the latest version which still includes codecs.
If you like the package management and the whole experience of Debian which is brought to you in part or more by other distros, I seriously recommend trying Debian, you can do a minimal install, too (like many other distros) and build your system up to what you want. Unless you want cutting edge packages you can try stable.
Debian has never disappointed me.
If you have the time, try as many distros as you can, but IMO you'll really love Debian once you really use it for a few weeks. The package management is outstanding and you can't beat their philosophy.
Eagerly awaiting the promise of iWatch interface. Then Ed, which will make the circle complete.
one of the major key points of Mint was that they backed codec into the distro ?? maybe top 1 or top 2 point I think. Wow very bold move.. They want to get rid of many users.
Wow - it almost sounds like you're using Gentoo!
I rather go with Ubuntu Mate these days, it avoids the delays (and mistakes) of the Mint cycles, among other benefits. For newcomers it eases post-install actions with the "Welcome" app (not just codecs, but proprietary drivers, etc).
And more important, the support in Mint is lacking and very unfriendly if you happen to bump into certain someone on irc, Ubuntu keeps their code of conduct to prevent those abuses.
For the other flavors, Xubuntu and Kubuntu should do just fine.
Artix
Your Linux, your init.
and from their mailing list at least one person supported the idea of adding non-free codecs to a future version.
Now if only there would be an CinnBuntu/Ubuntu Cinnamon Edition, we can get rid of Mint Linux all together. The only good things that differs it from Ubuntu is Cinnamon and Multimedia Support. Outside that, we have nothing good, just security issues and problems with updates being held back for no good reason.
No media play in the store = no sale.
Disclaimers on-line that media codecs are not part of the baseline system install = no sale.
Walmart spent the better part of a decade trying to explain the ins and outs of OEM Linux to its customers before throwing in the towel.
Tell me more about this store place where you go to when you want to buy Linux?
The people I have moved on to Linux don't even know of this sort of nuts and bolts stuff. I just show them how to use it, and they are happy doing what they want to do, with a lot less hassle. The people that I work with that are Linux savvy don't care, because it is a non-issue.
Somewhere in the middle might be a few who sweat the market share. I don't know what your Linux experience is, but "Year of Linux on the Desktop" is a bigger joke among journeymen like myself, and the real gurus than it ever was for people who give a damn about that kind of thing.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
No media play in the store = no sale.
Because god forbid they have a salesdrone just click the big damn button that says "get codecs."
Unity? Screw that: XFCE. Slashdot Beta? Screw that: SoylentNews. Australis? Screw that: Pale Moon. UX developers DIAF
"I have better things to do with my time."
Well do you have a homepage? /. and post?
Well do you have a journal?
Do you read a lot on
Twitter?
Facebook?
Etc?
Tick tock you don't stop!
Well, so long as I can install all needed multimedia codecs anyway - I didn't think that it's a problem. Mint got returned to his roots by the way, or I forgot something? It was not basing their release on Ubuntu for last few releases so far I can remember. Maybe it will get better!