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Finnish Government Criticizes Microsoft For Job Cuts, 'Broken Promises' (softpedia.com)

jones_supa writes: Softpedia reports: "Microsoft has recently announced a new round of job layoffs at its Mobile unit in Finland, as it moves forward with its restructuring and reorganization plan following the acquisition of Nokia's Devices and Services unit. The Finnish government has criticized Microsoft for turning to more job cuts in the country, pointing out that the company has a huge responsibility to help those who are being let go. Microsoft's latest job cut round included 1,850 people, 1,350 of which are said to be working in Finland. 'I am disappointed because of the (initial) promises made by Microsoft,' Finance Minister Alexander Stubb was quoted as saying by Reuters. 'One example is that the data center did not materialize despite the company's promise.'" He refers to Microsoft's promise in 2013 to invest $250 million in a data center located in Finland that was specifically meant to provide services to European customers. All of these worries are not unfounded as the employment situation in Finland is still quite terrible, and the decline of Nokia's former phone business certainly exacerbates the situation.

36 of 161 comments (clear)

  1. Eh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    So, it's Microsoft's job to make busy work for these people instead of letting them go?

    1. Re:Eh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yup, it's not the USA.

    2. Re:Eh? by peragrin · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No it is microsofts job not to lie to their employees and governments. If you promise something you should do it.

      Nokia was a great company until Microsoft tried to install Windows and it finally broke nokias phones.

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    3. Re:Eh? by Daemonik · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Microsoft is a large corporation. They could have made an investment in a new direction using these people. Layoffs are just the quick and easy out.

      They didn't have to buy Nokia in the first place. They completely wasted the resource and all their investors money for no net return because they never really wanted to be a phone company, it was just a bullet point on the "How do we measure compared to Google and Apple" powerpoint slide.

      It would be nice if corporations saw people as the resources they are rather than just expendable cogs. It's not the workers fault Microsoft's board of directors couldn't figure out how to run a phone division.

    4. Re:Eh? by Hognoxious · · Score: 2

      it's not the USA.

      Let's hope Microsoft know that. Otherwise there might be some very confused Indians arriving in Salo looking for someone to train them.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    5. Re:Eh? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If you promise something you should do it.

      When you deal with businesses, promises mean nothing unless they are contractual obligations. If they have it in writing, then they should take Microsoft to court. If they don't have it in writing, then they learned a valuable lesson, and maybe next time they will be smarter.

    6. Re:Eh? by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      They didn't have to buy Nokia in the first place.

      And they didn't have to be permitted to buy Nokia in the first place, but that was allowed to happen. So... why? Who got rich[er] there?

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    7. Re:Eh? by William+Baric · · Score: 3, Informative

      Net sales from Nokia worldwide (billion euros) :

      2008 : 50.71
      2009 : 40.98
      2010 : 42.45
      2011 : 38.66
      2012 : 30.18
      2013 : 12.71

      Nokia was falling like a rock when Microsoft bought it. Saying Microsoft broke Nokia is a completely dishonest comment.

    8. Re:Eh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      To anyone thinking of doing business with Microsoft I have only one piece of advice: Get it in writing.

      But I've already got it in writing. See? Here it is, in .DOCX format, stored in Office 365.

      We'll do whatever we damn well want, whenever we want, HOWever we want.

      Wait, I don't remember it saying that before.

    9. Re:Eh? by fnj · · Score: 2

      Lopping off ten thousand or so people is done with as much concern as changing the brand of towels in the toilet.

      And it is as stupid a practice as trying to flush towels down the toilet!

    10. Re:Eh? by cyber-vandal · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It started falling like a rock when Microsoft stooge Stephen Elop joined as CEO in 2010. It had its problems before then but Elop destroyed the company with a series of poor decisions, allowing Microsoft to buy it for a fraction of what it was worth in 2008. Maemo and its successors might have rejuvenated the company, or Nokia could've been making Android handsets by now but instead the brand was tied to the huge dead weight of Windows Phone and was dragged to its doom as a result. It's sad because Nokia phones were huge in Europe and Microsoft has decided to squander all that goodwill and has put a lot of talented people out of work for a platform that seems to be doomed.

    11. Re:Eh? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 3, Informative

      If the US legal system is not completely divorced from its inheritance of English Common Law, then I suspect that this isn't actually true. Written and verbal contracts are not so dissimilar in common law, the requirement is that a 'meeting of minds' has taken place. The written contract exists to provide evidence of this. Verbal agreements are problematic because there is a lack of evidence, however a witnessed verbal agreement can carry the same weight as a written one if the witnesses are willing to testify on behalf of one of the parties. Written contracts exist to avoid the need for this and the reliance on potentially faulty memories of the involved parties.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    12. Re:Eh? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Did you read the numbers? Their sales dropped by 20% from 2008-2009. There was a slight up-tick in 2010, so blaming the CEO who took over in 2010 is nonsense. Nokia had a decent kernel and a crappy userland for their smartphone range in 2005. Their solution was to replace the kernel with Linux and to have a dozen teams compete internally on a new userland, each with far more interest in sabotaging the others than on producing something to compete externally. In hindsight, adopting Windows Phone was a bad idea (though largely because Microsoft failed to get buy-in from third party app developers), but Nokia didn't have anything internal to compete with iOS and Android and their attempts to develop something were tearing the company apart internally. They basically had the choice of Android or Windows Phone. The margins in the Android handset market are tiny - even in 2010, few companies other than Google and Samsung were making money - and there was little competition in the Windows Phone market.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    13. Re:Eh? by pete6677 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      A verbal agreement is only worth the paper it's printed on.

    14. Re:Eh? by pete6677 · · Score: 3

      I see you missed that part about "The pile of people Microsoft just laid off were definitely in the top half if not the top 20% in their respective fields"

    15. Re: Eh? by sjames · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That used to be part of the social contract in the U.S. As long as you did your job, the job was yours. When you retired, you got a pension.

      Now, corporations expect the same loyalty but offer none in return.

  2. Same old MS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Of course it doesn't end well for you guys. It never does. You really can't be surprised by their ethics at this point. Now bend over while we force-install this mobile OS on your desktop!

  3. Corporate lies... by Daemonik · · Score: 4, Insightful

    When will politicians stop believing corporate promises (lies)?? Corporations are only in it for themselves, they have zero concern for the communities they are present in.

    Giving corporations sweetheart deals for promises of jobs or investment is the worst possible use of public money. It's corporate welfare, except these welfare recipients are spending the check on hookers and blow.

    1. Re:Corporate lies... by hcs_$reboot · · Score: 2, Insightful

      When will politicians stop believing corporate promises (lies)

      Maybe when politicians will stop making false promises (lies)? Why would politicians strongly condemn something they're doing all the time...

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    2. Re:Corporate lies... by Bonobo_Unknown · · Score: 4, Insightful

      While corporate hate is hip right now I am sure that Microsoft would have preferred that their Nokia venture worked rather than flopping so hard, so given that they gave it a good shot and it didn't work what else does Microsoft owe Finland? Perhaps the Finnish shouldn't have sold Nokia in the first place.

      --
      We don't believe in radical loony monotheistic religions from the middle east -- we're Christians.
    3. Re:Corporate lies... by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      When will politicians stop believing corporate promises (lies)?

      Who said he believed anything? In English we call this scapegoating. Nobody intelligent doesn't know that Microsoft is untrustworthy and deceptive. If someone chooses to go with Microsoft, you can be sure that they are getting a kickback. Only complete morons with a total disregard for history could think that Microsoft might be true to their word.

      Giving corporations sweetheart deals for promises of jobs or investment is the worst possible use of public money.

      Oh, so you do get how the game is played. I was worried there.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    4. Re:Corporate lies... by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2, Informative

      Perhaps the Finnish shouldn't have sold Nokia in the first place.

      If they hadn't, these people would have lost their jobs long ago. It's not like Nokia was prospering before the MS takeover.

    5. Re:Corporate lies... by ilguido · · Score: 4, Informative

      Perhaps the Finnish shouldn't have sold Nokia in the first place.

      If they hadn't, these people would have lost their jobs long ago. It's not like Nokia was prospering before the MS takeover.

      It was expanding less than their main rivals (Samsung and Apple), but it was still expanding. After the Elop takeover and the M$ deal it tanked hard. It is not difficult to see how badly it was mismanaged under the Elop and then M$ rule: "we scrap Linux, Qt and all the plan we made years ago investing billions, but the WP7 models will be ready in 9 months, so for 9 months we have nothing to put on the market", six month later "WP8 is the new shit, so the WP7 models that we are selling in the next months are already obsolete, wait one year more for the serious stuff", two years later "WP8? Scrap that shit (I said it was the shit, no?), it will be all W10 in the future". Nokia was really strong in the emerging markets with their feature phones and low-end smartphones, but M$ wanted to tread the Apple route and this is the result.

    6. Re:Corporate lies... by ilguido · · Score: 2

      From upthread. Nokia net sales: 2008 : 50.71 2009 : 40.98 2010 : 42.45 2011 : 38.66 2012 : 30.18 2013 : 12.71

      MS bought them in 2014. You are apparently using an interesting definition of 'expanding'. Care to share? We can use a laugh.

      Just three facts: Elop's Burning Memo and the M$ deal are from February 2011, the financial crisis of 2008 put the world economy in recession in 2009 and we're talking about the mobile devices division.

      In 2009 Nokia as a whole (it was not just a cellular phone maker, but an industrial conglomerate with many divisions) suffered from the financial crisis, so it was hit hard like many other companies, but it expected to recover and grow in 2010 and it grew in effect (operating profit was up 73%) and then they expected to grow in 2011 too because markets were recovering, but then something happened. In 2011, after a good first quarter, Nokia smartphones shipments stopped growing (i.e. "expanding"), they began losing personnel (it lost 2% of its workforce in 2009 during the crisis, but it gained a 7% in 2010, then lost more than 25% of its workforce in 2011-2012), their best selling high end smartphone MeeGo based N9 was relegated to secondary markets to bolster their WP7 line up, which totally failed.

      So to put it in a way that even a M$ shill can understand: Nokia smartphone shipments were growing steadily, even if less than Apple and Samsung, until the Nokia-M$ deal, then they crumbled, while their feature phones, Symbian based Asha, were the only reason why the mobile devices division didn't get the whole company bankrupt.

    7. Re:Corporate lies... by ilguido · · Score: 3, Interesting

      If Nokia had instead become a generic Android phone shifter, their profit margins would have gone way down, and there is no way they could have continued to support such a large workforce, and they certainly would not need Symbian developers. There is no realistic scenario where these people would have kept their jobs. Microsoft certainly accelerated the implosion, but they were not the root cause.

      The point is exactly that Nokia was _not_ trying to be a generic Android phone shifter, but the third contender (or fourth considering RIM) with Meego. Obviously they did not need all those Symbian developers, that's why they bought Qt and made a deal with Intel and the Linux Foundation over a Linux system for mobile devices and then hired a lot of MeeGo developers. Since MeeGo was designed to make a smooth transition from Symbian, there was indeed a realistic scenario where those people would have kept their jobs: the success of MeeGo. And since MeeGo could capitalize on the success of Symbian (it still had a 30% market share in early 2011), it had more chances at succeeding than WP.

    8. Re:Corporate lies... by Darinbob · · Score: 2

      They were going to be Meego, Maemo. Better than any crappy Windows phone and potentially real competition against Android or iPhone. Symbian developers were in the minority at Nokia. It was an engineering company and not a stupid apps producer. They had a respected research group (that Microsoft did not buy, they wouldn't want actual smarts tainting their image).

      Yes the old style phones were declining. Android was only one problem, bigger problem was losing out their core non smart phone business to cheap junk cutting into profits from below. But they were investing in new changes and products. They'd have been better off going alone than to have Microsoft come in and gut them. Which the majority of workers wanted. But Microsoft engineered a takeover. We'll never see if they could have recovered, but at least there was a chance of that instead of zero chance when the Elop engineered a takeover. At least Elop got screwed too by not becoming the new Microsoft CEO.

  4. Apple killed Finland. by LWATCDR · · Score: 3, Informative

    It was not intentional but Finland's economy is.was very dependent on two things cell phones and paper. Yes Nokia blew it when they sold to Microsoft and did not embrace their own Linux os that looked so promising, forked Android like Amazon, or went with Android. I think Nokia could have had a real winner with an Android phone with a Nokia camera. Nokia hardware was always good as are the cameras.

    --
    See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
  5. Does anyone remember? by Opportunist · · Score: 4, Informative

    Back when Nokia cashed in in Germany to build a plant, then when the "incentives" were running out they closed shop and moved to Romania, what was Finland's reaction when Germans (plus the German government of that time) complained and called Nokia things I can't repeat in decent company?

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  6. Local Seattle Press Response by jasnw · · Score: 2

    The Seattle Times ran a tech piece the other day about this issue, the take being that poor old Microsoft is losing a ton of money on this effort. No mention of what Microsoft mole Elop did to Nokia in order to get the price down to where MS would by it, nor how bad Microsoft (read "Balmer") handled the whole thing. Here's the link:

  7. Re:I agree, MS could have still employed them. by paiute · · Score: 2

    All Microsoft needs to do is realize that there is a lot of pent-up demand for a top-notch, modern Linux distro that doesn't force systemd on its users.

    Well, I realized the other day that I should be the Queen of England, but here we are.

    --
    If Slashdot were chemistry it would look like this:Cadaverine
  8. Going with Windows was the biggest fail by hraponssi · · Score: 2

    The Finnish government is just naive as is usual. Nothing new there. There was plenty of talks of data centers but I guess it was just the desperate grasping the straws in hopes of getting some crumbs. Whatever.

    As for Nokia, going with Windows Phones was maybe the biggest mistake they could ever have made, and plenty of Finns were happy to point that out when it happened. Of course, Finns tend to complain about everything, so that does not necessarily mean anything. But Nokia had a very long time to get into the software ecosystem field, get a proper OS out, branch into Android among other things and so on. The top management just couldn't handle the transition to software side from hardware focus. This was evident years before with all the crap of Symbian never developing into anything reasonable (as in ecosystems, app development, etc.), and all other manufacturers abandoning it over time. The number of OS's Nokia worked on and never finishing any to a decent degree also tells enough. Even with hugely smaller resources, Jolla managed to put something usable out the door. Presumably because no-one was constantly throwing roadblocks at them within the company.

    While hiring Elop and committing corporate suicide via WP was horrible, the later sale of Nokia mobiles to Microsoft is generally seen in Finland as a great move. Nokia management finally recognized MS and WP was a fast sinking ship, they had stacked the wrong boat, and they had to get out fast. So they managed to sell the burnt out corpse of a platform, along with its arsonist captain Elop, to MS for 5+billion and used that to get stronger on the network side. Of course, with the ongoing virtualization of network side to sfotware, and strong push from Huawei etc., who knows how that will end. But at least it is not consumer software.

    Also some of the MS Mobile people in Finland have been offered positions in Seattle/US. But I guess they pick the best of the best, but so would I and anyone with any sense. What else?

    Just sayin'.

  9. Re:Did they get it in writing? by pba123 · · Score: 2
  10. Re:I agree, MS could have still employed them. by Sri+Ramkrishna · · Score: 2

    Hah, this is a great comment. Yes, man, there is a pent up demand to go back to the old init + microsoft. The opportunity that is being squandered is a crime against humanity.

  11. Re:Finland, Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    Sorry to hear about your predicament but blaming Finland is ridiculous. Finns gave more aid per capita to Greece than any other nation in the euro zone so the fact that Finland had to play tough was a simple necessity for any politician that wanted to get reelected. The number one reason for Greece's predicament is that the books were cooked when Greece wanted to join and Germany deliberately turned a blind eye to it to ensure that the euro zone was as large as possible from the very beginning. Now, obviously it seems unfair when minimum unemployment benefits in Finland are higher than many worker's salaries in Greece (or Spain for that matter) and perhaps there would've been a better way to reform the Greek economy. However, it would be ridiculous to expect more from the EU without some terms and conditions.l

  12. Re:Finland, Microsoft by cheesybagel · · Score: 2

    The problem with Greece and Finland is the same. The Euro. It isn't working. You just need to look at the recoveries in e.g. Iceland or Sweden to see counter-examples of that.

    The austerity policies have been a disaster and the idea that you can use the same standards and business methods in countries with dissimilar geography, language, natural resources, etc, etc is also a disaster.

  13. Re:Why is this legal in Finland? by Hognoxious · · Score: 2

    Finland isn't part of Scandinavia, you fat moron.

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."