Elon Musk Suggests Tesla Model 3 Won't Get Free Supercharger Use (theverge.com)

An anonymous reader writes from a report via The Verge: In response to a question about how the company would handle an influx of Model 3s to its Supercharging stations, which are currently offered as a free service to Tesla customers, Elon Musk said at Tesla's annual shareholder's conference in Mountain View, California, "it will not be free long distance for life unless you purchase that package." He did not specify what the "package" contained, nor did he say how much it would cost as an add-on with the purchase of a Model 3. His full quote reads: "Obviously, [free Supercharging] fundamentally has a cost. [...] The obvious thing to do is decouple that from the cost of the Model 3. So it will still be very cheap, and far cheaper than gasoline, to drive long-distance with the Model 3, but it will not be free long distance for life unless you purchase that package. I wish we could, but in order to achieve the economics, it has to be something like that." Tesla did recently announce their Gigafactory Grand Opening will be held on July 29, even if it isn't scheduled to begin production on lithium ion cells until next year.

Comments

More context

[93 Escort Wagon]

From the article:

"Elon Musk addressed a question from a young Model S P85D owner about how the company would handle an influx of Model 3s to its Supercharging stations"

So basically some rich guy wanted to know if he had to share his charging station with the unwashed lower classes.

Re:More context

[ichthus]

unwashed lower classes

Sheesh, that's a bit harsh. Don't you think? I mean, it's not like they're driving '93 Escort wagons.

Re:More context

[93 Escort Wagon]

unwashed lower classes

Sheesh, that's a bit harsh. Don't you think? I mean, it's not like they're driving '93 Escort wagons.

Are you my daughter in disguise? She's been bugging me to get the Escort washed for quite some time now...

Re:More context

[vux984]

So basically some rich guy wanted to know if he had to share his charging station with the unwashed lower classes.

To be fair, it is a genuine concern. It takes me about 4 minutes to fill my car.

In the last decade, I've had to wait for a pump only a couple times, and the longest wait was only a couple cars. (Maybe 10 minutes).

If the new model is cheaper and a hit, demand for charging will rapidly outstrip supply.

It takes an hour to charge a Tesla at a superstation. Its only going to take a small surge in electric vehicle to overwhelm a stations capacity. Get just 2-3 cars in front of you, and there goes half a DAY.

Re:More context

[imgod2u]

If you're going for long-distance, the optimal strategy is to charge for 30 min to get to ~70% then drive to the next charging station. The charging rate for Li-Ion gets significantly slower as you approach 100%. You'll start out at around 120-130 KW and fall down to about 50 KW at 80%.

It wasn't the case ~2 years ago but nowadays, the maximum distance between any 2 charging stations is about ~150 miles. So you should have plenty of charge after 30 min to get to the next station even if you drive like a maniac.

Re:More context

[AaronW]

Most superchargers are next to restaurants and other amenities. Out of all of the superchargers I've visited I think I only went to a McDonalds once. One was next to a nice brew pub, several at shopping malls, a couple at Black Bear diners. Where possible they seem to try to locate them where there is a variety of places to eat and/or shop. I find it's often nice to stop at places other than McDonalds. For example, I went across the street from the one in Folsom, CA to City Burger where they have awesome burgers, much better than anything you'd get at McDonalds/Burger King, etc. The one in Rockland, CA is right near a combination bar/restaraunt/theater where you can eat your dinner while watching a movie. There's also a mall nearby as well. The one in Truckee, CA is near some restaurants and a 24/hour Safeway. I've stopped there a couple of times to make a pit stop and pick up a couple six packs on my way to Reno and pick up over 50 miles of range even though I don't need the charge.

I think it makes sense to charge for their use with the model 3. The Superchargers are designed for long distance travel, not so much for people wanting to get a free charge. It's been a problem at some chargers where the locals charge there rather than charging at home or work and they clog them up. I read about one where there's a person who frequently parks their car at a supercharger and leaves it hooked up overnight (which is considered extremely rude).

I think the best thing Tesla could do would be to require an account to use them and charge a bit more than it would cost to charge at home to encourage people to do most charging at home or work. Even though it's free for me since I have a P85 (over 41K miles on it), I wouldn't mind all that much if it wasn't free since that would help encourage people not to clog it up instead of charging at home.

There's a Supercharger just off the freeway along the route between my house and where I work but I only use it rarely, only if I'm low and need to travel a long distance. It's just not worth my time to stop there (and that's one of the few where there's not much around it since it's at the Tesla factory). It's just more convenient and cost effective to charge at home since it takes me 5 seconds to plug in at night and 5 seconds to unplug in the morning with no waiting. If I need a full charge at home it takes roughly 5 1/2 hours at 80 amps, something that's easily done overnight. Since my typical charge is a fraction of that I usually lower the current to 40A so there's less loss and let it charge a couple hours overnight when the rates are the lowest.

Charging at home is pretty cheap, even though the area I live in has some of the most expensive electricity in the nation. I have a separate meter for my car and I pay around $50/month and drive around 1000 miles/month. $50/1000 miles is quite cheap considering the size of the car.

How Is This a Surprise?

[EndlessNameless]

Lower margins on a mass-market vehicle means there isn't enough money to pay the electrical bill for the lifetime of the vehicle.

Are people really getting worked up over basic and obvious economic decisions?

I know two people who own Teslas, and both of them bought the in-home charger regardless of the availability of "free" charging. Topping up costs way less than a tank of gas, and they don't feel like wasting time at the station.

The only reason Tesla could offer free charging in the first place is because the electricity costs so much less than gasoline. Their "free" fillup simply was not a large value to begin with---except for the convenience it offered on long trips.

Facepalm

[Solandri]

The Tesla S is approx 2 meters wide by 5 meters long, about half of which is windows. If you covered the rest with solar panels (only projected area matters), that's 5 m^2 of panels.

Figure you use the commercial 150 Watt/m^2 panels, and that's a peak generating capacity of 750 Watts. Capacity factor for solar in the U.S. is about 0.145 (this accounts for angle of the sun, weather, etc.). So (0.75 kW) * (0.145) * (24 hours) = 2.61 kWh. In other words, if you left your solar panel-covered Tesla S parked outside for a typical continental U.S. day, it would generate 2.61 kWh.

Charging efficiency of the Tesla battery is about 80%. So only about 2.09 kWh actually makes it into the battery (the rest heats up the battery and charger).

The best EPA-rated Tesla S uses 33 kWh/100 miles. So leaving your PV-encrusted Tesla parked out in the sun all day will charge the battery enough to move you 6.3 miles.

Re:"Gas" = Electrons

[imgod2u]

Those numbers are somewhat exaggerated. My 85kWH battery takes roughly 1 hour, 10 min to get from 5% to 100% (I've measured). To get to 80% takes about 40 minutes.

The cabin conditioning is a tiny fraction of electricity used. Realistically, a 100% charge will net ~240 miles at 75mph (say, highway 5 in CA). The AC has relatively little impact on that range (maybe 5%). The biggest impact is if you live in a really cold area. That can get you down to 200 miles on 100% charge if you're at, say, 30F ambient temp or lower. I've driven in parts of Oregon during the winter and haven't really noticed more than a ~10% hit in range at 70mph cruising speed.

It's definitely less convenient than a gas car by far. But not insurmountable as you make it out to be. On my route from SF to LA, it adds about 1 hour of drive time for a 7 hour drive. That was when there was ~150-200 miles between chargers. Now, on highway 5, there's a charger every ~100 miles. Some even less (Harris Ranch -> Buttonwillow -> Tijon -> Burbank is about ~50 miles each hop).

Trying to drive long distance without Supercharger access is a terrible idea (though I've done it for the lawls).

If the OP undersold the difference, you're definitely overselling it.