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NSA Releases New Snowden Documents (vice.com)
An anonymous reader writes: Hundreds of internal NSA documents have been declassified and released to VICE in response to their FOIA lawsuit. They're now sharing them all online, calling it "an extraordinary behind-the-scenes look at the efforts by the NSA, the White House, and US Senator Dianne Feinstein to discredit Snowden [that] call into question aspects of the U.S. government's long-running narrative about Snowden's time at the NSA." The documents officially confirm that Snowden had also worked with the CIA, and show a vigorous internal discussion about how to respond to Snowden's leaks that apparently led the NSA to erroneously assert that Snowden hadn't voiced his objections about the surveillance of U.S. citizens within the NSA before going public.
Living in Russia now, Snowden himself refused to comment on the new releases, with his attorney saying Snowden "believes the NSA is still playing games with selective releases, and [he] therefore chooses not to participate in this effort. He doesn't trust that the intelligence community will operate in good faith."
The EFF is also marking the three-year anniversary of Snowden's leaks, saying they led directly to the first legislation curtailing the NSA's power in over 30 years and changed the way the world perceives government surveillance. Snowden was inspired in part by a desire to keep the internet free, saying in 2014 that "I remember what the Internet was like before it was being watched, and there's never been anything in the history of man that's like it."
Living in Russia now, Snowden himself refused to comment on the new releases, with his attorney saying Snowden "believes the NSA is still playing games with selective releases, and [he] therefore chooses not to participate in this effort. He doesn't trust that the intelligence community will operate in good faith."
The EFF is also marking the three-year anniversary of Snowden's leaks, saying they led directly to the first legislation curtailing the NSA's power in over 30 years and changed the way the world perceives government surveillance. Snowden was inspired in part by a desire to keep the internet free, saying in 2014 that "I remember what the Internet was like before it was being watched, and there's never been anything in the history of man that's like it."
If you don't know what it means, search it.
Someone who exposes the US spying on foreign leaders is a traitor. While I agree with exposing the spying on US citizens, how does it benefit the American people to disclose that the US is spying on leaders like Angela Merkel? It doesn't, of course. Exposing that benefits Germany and other countries but not the US. Snowden is a traitor.
Snowden is old news, his release of classified information hasn't changed anything. Move on.
There was absolutely nothing "erroneous" - it was all an intentional bunch of cover-your-ass lying.
I guess "erroneously assert" is the new "that statement is no longer operative". Nixon should sue for some sort of infringement.
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
Any efforts to discredit this man are a fucking disgrace that should be called out as such. The founding fathers had a vision. It certainly didn't include anything like the FBI, CIA, or NSA spying on their own countrymen.
Snowden releases NSA documents!
Reading through the Vice article it seems as if Snowden didn't exactly come out and say "I think what we're doing is illegal". It was much more along the lines of him questioning their training on oversight and the boundaries. He was asking questions about the relative priorities of Congressional Law vs Executive Orders.
The thing is, we don't know what was discussed in a couple of the verbal meetings, so he very well could have pointed out that the reason he was asking is the decision that was the foundation for some of the programs was a Classified Executive Order that went against Statute.
He implied as such when he was pointing out the training materials, including some SOPs, were out of date and referred to lapsed or repealed laws.
On the other hand, I'm thinking if he went to the IG and flat out said "Hey, I think these programs I'm working on are illegal", I'm pretty sure the response would have been something along the lines of "you're fired -- allow us to remind you of your NDA and the consequences".
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
thx.
Why would classified documents be released in response to a FOIA request?
Congress needs to take up a collection and see if they can find a pair of testicles. Personal liability, up to and including prison time, for habitual overclassification would probably reduce scandals like this by 95%.
It is a basic right of all humans to have privacy - in their personal lives, in their communications, in every type of comportment they make be it electronic or otherwise. Edward Snowden is a great crusader for one of the most basic, fundamental human rights that belongs to all: Not just Americans. Not just those who are not foreign leaders. But all.
The surveillance apparatus is an abomination against humanity and must be immediately and permanently dismantled.
from TFA: "and US Senator Dianne Feinstein to discredit Snowden" Gee, what else has Feinstein tried to do? Weaken/destroy encryption? Her own staff hacked by the CIA? Repeatedly tried to push bills that empower law enforcement to violate the 4th Amendment? Makes me wonder if the NSA/CIA has some leverage on her, something they know about her, to get her to have such zeal in violating her oath to uphold the Constitution.
If the docs aren't redacted 16 ways to Sunday they're part of someone's narrative.
But if we don't recognise how it should work, they don't have to make the effort to ensure it doesn't. If a congress person submitted an impeachment bill on that basis, it would stir up the issue. But they don't, so our lords and masters don't have to make the effort to suppress it.
Nevertheless, the Russians are still pimping him. He is fully penetrated and has been since long before he "defected" to his true love.
It's a bloody long article, but here's what caught my eye.
If the OGC lawyer had added "I'm not sure within the context of the training program whether the training slide attests to such a serious misrepresentation, but if it does, you need to suspend teaching this slide immediately" we might all now be in a different place.
The NSA culture in effect seemed to regard providing timely and correct training materials concerning the chain of agency authority as a "best effort" (warranting an administrative follow up) rather than "mission critical" (warranting an internal bow-shot cease and desist).
Hayden's book Playing to the Edge contains tedious chapter upon chapter about endless compliance politics played at the top level, all lawyered up six ways from Sunday, but did the organization deeply communicate the resulting values internally, as forcefully as described by John Kotter in his book Leading Change?
Think You're Communicating Enough? Think Again
If the OGC lawyer had the required ten reminders from on high spilling out of her inbox, she might have gone down the cease and desist track instead, giving Snowden immediate reason to believe that someone on the other side actually gave a shit.
Robert Litt, general counsel of the ODNI:
I would argue here that the other side of "playing close to the edge" is that a single page of unclear training material, if it's the wrong page, is no laughing matter.
Narrow sidelines poorly communicated. What could possibly go wrong?
I think this is the first time I've ever seen or heard the phrases "intelligence community" and "in good faith" in the same sentence.
Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
The founding fathers had a vision. It certainly didn't include anything like the FBI, CIA, or NSA spying on their own countrymen.
George Washington ran a spy ring that spied on both the British and fellow colonists. Benjamin Franklin opened other peoples mail to gather intelligence.
George Washington, Spymaster
Washington took his role as spymaster in chief quite seriously, laying the groundwork for today’s complex intelligence community and recognizing that civilian observation, mobilization and insight was just as important as military might. Without this foresight, the outcome of the Revolutionary War might have been quite different. The war for independence from Great Britain was not just one of battles and firearms, it was one of intelligence. As one defeated British intelligence officer is often quoted as saying, “Washington did not really outfight the British. He simply out-spied us.” -
What do you think General Washington would have done with someone that stole secret war plans of the Continental Army and then fled to a foreign country as General Arnold did? What did they do with spies and traitors?
What was Snowden's real agenda? There really isn't any way to know for sure, is there?
German spies imply Snowden leaked files for Russia
NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden could have been acting under the influence of the Russian government, the heads of Germany's foreign and domestic intelligence agencies said on Friday.
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Any efforts to discredit this man are a fucking disgrace that should be called out as such.
Snowden has admitted his guilt publicly. There isn't any genuine doubt he is guilty of the offenses with which he is charged, and it all could have been avoided if he had gone to Congress. Because of his actions al Qaeda, ISIS, North Korea, and other enemies and adversaries of the US have had direct access to large collections of national defense secrets of the United States, Canada, Great Britain, Australia, Germany, France, and others. What a hero.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
In the waning days and hours of Barak Hussein Obama's failed life and soviet regime he seeks to use every asset to murder Edward Snowden.
Will Obama, on the morning of 20 January 2017 order a special SAC B52H bomber to deliver a nuclear payload to detonate above Moscow, Russia, killing millions only for the purpose of killing one man, Obama's great hatred, Edward Snowden?
So, they lied to us about when Snowden told us they were lying to us?
It's too late to be shocked about pretty-much anything these guys say anymore.
TPTB never limits themselves to only one venue of attack
In the case for Snowden, their Wu Mao (fifty cents) team have been burning the midnight oil for the past many moons, and in the comments for this article alone I've counted at least 7 different Wu Mao team members
Hello, Mr. Wu Mao, how are you?
Don't you ever feel tired doing the same thing over and over again?
Please, please get a life
Contrary to what NSA has told you, astroturfing their lies over online forum can never make you a better person
Have an ice day, Wu Mao !
Captcha: ordeal
If The Donald does glom on to the White House [shudder], one of the first things that will happen is that the Freedom of Information Act will be XOed out of existence (then rubber-stamped by a Red majority Supreme Court followed by the GOP-controlled Congress jumping on board to kill it permanently).
Cockroaches despise it when the kitchen light is turned on.
He doesn't trust that the intelligence community will operate in good faith.
Spies are not trustworthy by definition.
If your little brother spies on you, do you trust him?
The Snowden effect was that as of this moment what the NSA (or another agency) is probably still doing has been publicly repudiated by most of Congress.
It might be technically legal within the drive a bus through the loopholes that Congress knowingly included to allow widespread surveillance to continue. But next time it is revealed that the NSA or another government body is still abusing its power to enable widespread dragnet government surveillance, then people will be running for cover because no public court is going to give them quarter under the loophole of a vague law that most of Congress is on the public record saying does not enable widespread surveillance.
When interpreting a vague law, then the public record of the people that voted on it matters.
It isn't the great victory for the Liberty, the Constitution and the rule of law that people were looking for, but right now most of Congress is on the record saying that dragnet surveillance is not allowed under the law and that very much matters.
It also makes it more dangerous for the next person to come along and decide to expose illegal covert activities because people are far more dangerous when they are already working outside the law and they know it.
"I remember what the Internet was like before it was being watched, and there's never been anything in the history of man that's like it."
Just goes to show how naive Millennials are, the Internet has always been watched just the same as phone lines have always been tapped and postal mail has been tracked. Everything is new to them, sigh, this once great nation is going down the toilet of the blind crying foul.
"In Corporate America, NSA leaks documents on Snowden"
-><- no
Andrea Shepard, Developer
She is why every version of Tails AFTER 1.4.1 is compromised. The last version of Tails that is ok is 1.4.1. Notice it is hard to find. There is a torrent on kat.cr
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140124/10564825981/nsa-interception-action-tor-developers-computer-gets-mysteriously-re-routed-to-virginia.shtml
Andrea Shepard works for the NSA.
At least between the ones we know.
That is lazy argumentation. Either show up to the debate or go home. Pathetic!
Not defending the NSA, but why haven't more people working at the NSA disclosed more information and flee to a country that won't extradite?