Man Sued For $30K Over $40 Printer He Sold On Craigslist (usatoday.com)

An anonymous reader cites an article on USA Today: Selling a used, black-and-white printer through Craigslist seemed simple and straightforward to Doug Costello. It wasn't. What the 66-year-old Massachusetts man didn't know then is that he would spend the next 6 and a half years embroiled in a complicated and confusing legal dispute in Indiana over that printer, which, according to its buyer, was broken. He would find himself liable for about $30,000 in damages. He would pay a lawyer at least $12,000 in his battle to escape the legal mess. And it all started with a piece of hardware he sold online for about $40 in 2009. With shipping and other costs, the total was less than $75, according to court records.Gersh Zavodnik, the printer's buyer, has been described as "prolific, abusive litigant" who has brought dozens of lawsuits against individuals and businesses. He often asks for "astronomical" damages.

Comments

US Legal system

[Anonymous Coward]

Where it's not about whether you win or lose, it's about bankrupting the opponent

Re:US Legal system

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes they do. In some countries loser has to pay for all court costs. This prevents people and companies from bring a suit they know they will lose.

Re:US Legal system

[sg_oneill]

Does it work differently in any other country?

Here in west australia you would bring a claim like this to the small claims tribunal, or in other states magistrates course. You generally dont employ lawyers at these things, and its largely a couple of people resolving a dispute in front of the judge whos primarily there to mediate the dispute rather than award outrageous and punitive damages. Its pretty cheap, and appropriate for small claims.

The littigant would have been awarded $75 (the amount he paid) and possibly a refund of his court fees.

Re:US Legal system

[gnasher719]

Does it work differently in any other country?

In Germany, the judge first figures out how much we are arguing about, here: $30,000. Or $29,955 if the guy offered to return the $45. Then the judge looks up what the fees or the court and the lawyers would be for a $30,000 case, maybe $3,000 altogether. That's what court and lawyers get (court is not free).

Should the judge order a payment of $60, that's 0.2% of what they argued about, then the defendent pays $60 plus 0.2% of the cost (court and both lawyers), that's another six dollars, while the plaintiff gets $60 and pays 99.8% of the cost, that is $2,994.,

That's why people in Germany don't go to court and ask for ridiculous amounts of money.

Re:US Legal system

[SDF-7]

And that's how these things would normally be handled here as well.

In fact, it is mentioned in the article that it *did* go to small claims first, where the plaintiff asked for a ridiculous court-maximum of $6000 (for a $75 online purchase). That got found in favor of the defendant after the plantiff apparently admitted to destroying/disposing of the printer and had no further evidence of it not being as described in the sale.

Only after he lost in small claims did he somehow then take it to additional courts. I have a few thoughts based on the Indiana Supreme Court actually knowing this guy by name and commenting on his usage of the courts -- but the words "libel suit" are coming to my mind so I'll just keep my impressions to myself.

Re:US Legal system

[Dan1701]

In Britain, this sort of thing would probably be dealt with in a Small Claims Court, and would cost next to nothing for the defendant to represent himself. The outrageous damages would be viewed by a judge as outright silliness and dismissed; even were the defendant to lose, the most that would happen would be the cost of his printer plus the other part's costs (which he could apply to the court to "tax" if he felt them unreasonable).

This sort of thing would also likely get the serial litigant declared to be a Vexatious Litigant. the Uk Government keeps a public list of these people, who must seek a court's permission before embarking on any litigation whatsoever, because they have shown themselves to be time-wasters in the past.

The words "AS IS" are your friends

[Crashmarik]

Along with
"No warranty from seller"
"Seller assumes no liability"
"All sales final"
"No Refunds"

Re:The words "AS IS" are your friends

[Kjella]

None of them would have helped here, since the actual facts never went to court. Basically if someone files a crazy lawsuit and motions you must respond or lose by default. The purpose is to avoid stalling and to get as many things as possible settled so the court can only deal with the issues in dispute, but the "fallback strategy" is not good. If the motion is not answered it should go to the court for a court order, if the court order is not answered it should go to contempt. Having a "non-action" count as admission should be a last resort.

Re:Small Claims Court?

[Anonymous Coward]

It doesn't. His cased was dismissed from small claims, because he threw out the evidence (printer). He refiled in Superior Court with a bunch of new complaints. He didn't sue for $30,000, what he did was send a Request for Admission to the opponent requesting he admit to owing the 30,000 or the 300,000 or the 600,000. Marion County has a rule that if you don't respond to a Request for Admission in 30 days then you are presumed to have admitted the fact at issue. That was the plaintiff's game here. Send a bunch of requests and hope they don't respond.

Re:We need Loser pays

[jeff4747]

Loser pays would also make it basically impossible to sue any entity that has more money than you. The risk would be far too great, even if you had a legitimate dispute.

Let the judge award "loser pays" only after meeting a high threshold. Such as in situations where no rational person would consider it a legitimate dispute.

Awesome legal hacking by plaintif

[mi]

The winning technique used by the plaintiff was thus:

1. Send a letter to the target asking him to admit fault and owing a certain amount of money ($30K, $600K, whatever).
2. Wait for him to not respond in 30 days
3. Voila, by Indiana law, this not-responding is equivalent to the admission being sought.
4. Profit, obviously.

The judge, who awarded him $30K (plus interest), acknowledged the amount is "seemingly high" and the judgment "may seem extreme for the breach of contract for the purchase of a printer." But he wrote that he's constrained by how the Supreme Court had previously interpreted a state trial rule, called Rule 36, which sets the 30-day deadline for responding to requests for admissions.

The appeal court noted:

"He did not send requests claiming $30,000 and $300,000 and $600,000 in damages because he believes those figures are legally justified and thought Costello might agree," Vaidik wrote. "He sent them because he hoped Costello would not respond, rendering the matters admitted..."

Yes, he did, you dimwits. You sat on that rule for years and saw nothing wrong with it. You saw nothing wrong with it applied by your fellow pedigreed lawyers acting just as predatory — if only a little less obviously — against others. Suddenly, a man comes around filing his own lawsuits, representing himself in court — and you find yourself bound by your own arcane rules.

"Oh, but we did not mean for it be used that way." Well, you should not have written it that way then...

Whether the sold printer was broken, whether the seller really did try to sell a lemon — that's small potatoes. What pan Zavodnik exposed was the incompetence of Indiana's judges. Hurrah for the hacker!

Re:We need Loser pays

[PRMan]

What we need is loser pays the winner the lowest of the 2 sets of legal fees. Let MegaCorp show up with 50 lawyers. If you have 1, that's all they're getting.

Double legal fees will be painful for the small guy, but small enough of a risk to give the right people hope if the case is strong enough.

Likewise, if small guy wins, you collect your legal fees and pay nothing to your lawyer. As it should be. Winning a court case should never be a Pyrrhic victory.