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China Plans Massive Sea Lab 10,000 Feet Underwater In the South China Sea (bloomberg.com)
An anonymous reader writes: In an effort to hunt for materials, China is planning to build a manned deep-sea platform in the South China Sea. The lab may also serve for military purposes in the disputed waters as well. The lab would be located as much as 3,000 meters (9,800 ft) below sea level, according to a recent Science Ministry presentation viewed by Bloomberg. Bloomberg writes: "The project was mentioned in China's current five-year economic plan released in March and ranked number two on a list of the top 100 science and technology priorities." There are few public details specifying the timeline of the project, any blueprints, costs or where exactly it will be located. China's President Xi Jinping considers more than 80 percent of the waters its sovereign territory. The country has even created several artificial islands in the South China Sea covering 3,200 acres. Last year, the NYT posted a fascinated piece showing clear satellite imagery of the new islands being built.
You better check under the sea
'cause that is where you'll find me
Underneath the
SeaLab
Underneath the water
Underneath the
SeaLab
At the bottom of the sea...
See, now America's attempts to keep them restrained in that area will be perceived as anti-science. Very, very clever...
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
These are international waters, open to exploration by ALL. This may just be a serious science project, but if it's not just that, the rest of the world needs to do the same. America is not perfect, but I would never, ever, EVER, trust the Chinese government to do ANYTHING for purely altruistic purposes - even for their own people. They get away with too much, already!
Funny... when heard of this underwater sea lab, the first thing that I thought about was Octonauts.
So, who's going the be the Chinese equivalent of Captain Barnacle?
Im already ready to go beat the shit out of those fuckers from Pod 6. FUCK POD 6
Or precious metals. My Precious...
4335 feet per square inch is an impressive compression ratio.
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
More details were requested, but ...
China Shipbuilding Industry Corporation and the ministry did not reply to faxes seeking comment.
No word on whether Bloomberg tried their BBS or AOL chat room.
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
That's beyond the crush depth of most nuclear powered submarines.
That's because most nuclear powered submarines are specifically not designed to have to withstand the pressure from being 3,000m underwater. You can't launch a missile from that far down, they only really need to be hidden from things on the surface and in the air (and stay quiet for other subs). There are plenty of other types of submarines which do go that deep because that's part of their design goal.
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
If they can build a habitable sphere that can withstand the 2ton/sq.in. at that depth, then more power to 'em. We have DSV that easily go that deep, but they're the size of a small car and carry the supplies to survive at most a day.
The only place that's not much messed up by men yet (besides MH370 and a few other vessels)
Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
Laying claim to a fairly huge chunk of the globe, and asserting control of the shipping, is extremely valuable on its own.
If anything is going to cause ww3, it's China militarizing and claiming ownership of the sea.
AC the US lined the oceans with its mil sound surveillance system back in ~ 1960's (SOSUS) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... so any mil precedent has long been set by the US to use the oceans for "anything" any nation wants.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
If they succeed, they should be sure to take care when stocking the soda machine in the break room. Those things can be dangerous...
Trump 2016
You are welcome on my lawn.
These are international waters, open to exploration by ALL. This may just be a serious science project, but if it's not just that, the rest of the world needs to do the same. China is not perfect, but I would never, ever, EVER, trust the American government to do ANYTHING for purely altruistic purposes - even for their own people. They get away with too much, already!
FTFY
Seaquest DSV.
"Why not an underwater version of the international space station?"
Do you mean a multinational research station that China is excluded from for no particular reason? Uhh, no.
will this Sealab be operational in 2020?
The US should totally build one.
We cannot have a Sea Lab Gap!
Undersea outposts were pretty thoroughly explored in the 1960s - at that time, there was no economically viable undersea pursuit worth pursuing.
In other words: when you go underwater and stay there for long periods, you're essentially burning money. Fine if you want to park nuclear missiles off other people's shores, but otherwise not worth the effort.
TFA says this is a danger. I could see this while building it, but would you even notice a typhoon happening if your 10,000 feet under, and anchored to the bedrock??
Being nuclear powered doesn't help with pressure resistance.
I was thinking SeaQuest DSV (the first season, before it got all weird and messed up). And also SeaLab.
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
I don't know about "recent", but you can see Google's latest here.
I may be mistaken (and please tell me if so) but that sure looks like a couple of dredge ships and floating pipes to build a new pile of dry land. Other Chinese-claimed islands show large piles of dirt and earth-moving equipment. One island does not appear quite so dry or quite so developed in older pictures.
You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
First they came for the Vietnamese, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Vietnamese.
Then they came for the Filipino, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Filipino.
Then they came for the Malaysians, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Malaysian.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
Poetry aside, there is a good reason to be concerned about territorial expansion, especially when it's projecting military power uncomfortably close to neighbors. If it continues unchecked, then if or when a war does break out, the first fighting will be to capture that nearby territory in a powerful first strike. That eliminates potential allies for opponents, and concentrates the first counterattacks on liberating the conquered territory.
That's how it worked in previous wars, at least. In a long-range modern war between superpowers, territorial expansion primarily serves as yet another target. It's another place for satellites to watch, another suspicious building, and another place that might hide another missile. Once the big powers break out their big weapons, it won't matter whose sons or daughters are in uniform. What will matter is who can keep their weapons operational long enough to fire at the enemy, and I doubt very much that anyone will care about "dignity".
You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
So, who's going the be the Chinese equivalent of Captain Barnacle?
"It's me and my crew and we've come for a screw!" said Barnacle Bill the Sailor.
"It's me myself and nobody else!" said Barnacle Bill the Sailor.
the rest is probably too dirty to post here.
Do you mean a multinational research station that China is excluded from for no particular reason?
The obvious rebuttal is the well-known Chinese government penchant for stealing technology. That's the particular reason.
Launching a missile from a mile down doesn't depend upon specific performance requirements from the submarine [well, Ok, they are there, of course] but from the missile. If you launch from a mile down, then the missile has to have the internal strength and structural integrity to survive the pressure from that depth, all the way through it's ascent.
I will now make an over-simplification, but you'll see the point: all of the additional structural integrity that the missile would require (for example to stop it's fuel containment tanks from being crushed, or it's warhead being damaged) would add a very significant mass to the rocket itself. So if you designed the entire rocket assembly to withstand that deep see pressure, it's mass at take-off would contain a much higher percentage of "structure" than with a conventional missile. This would lead to a massively reduced effective range, possibly lower speed-in-flight (making it easier to shoot down) and possibly reduced agility whilst airborne (impacting accuracy).
One alternative might be to release a buoyant "missile container" from one mile down, then have pressure-sensing mechanisms within that assembly launch the missile once the assembly broke surface. Again, however, this seems to be making the whole process not only needlessly complicated, but adding a whole new set of componentry that can introduce the possibility of failure to the process.
I'm actually entirely opposed to any form of nuclear armament myself, but reckon your idea won't float (sorry!) on technical grounds...
These are international waters, open to exploration by ALL. This may just be a serious science project, but if it's not just that, the rest of the world needs to do the same. America is not perfect, but I would never, ever, EVER, trust the Chinese government to do ANYTHING for purely altruistic purposes - even for their own people. They get away with too much, already!
Well, welcome to the other side of the fence - I'm glad you could join us. That is what many have been saying about America for many years; now you can see things from the outside. Sorry, I shouldn't gloat, it's just such pleasant feeling, as I'm sure you know.
There is little doubt that this is a serious, scientific project, but no science is purely unpolitical; practising science in any form tends to influence your thinking and make you less tied up in things like national patriotism, religion etc - after all, as a scientist, you have to learn from and cooperate with scientists and other thinkers from all over the world. Also, science has the potential to increase the power of whoever knows the results; how can it not be political? Fortunately, most of science is open and international simply because it has to be - it is almost impossible to advance science, except in a very narrow set of subjects, if you work in isolation. Which is why we perhaps shouldn't fear China and their efforts as much - or America, for that matter: we all need each other. Instead, we should ask to join them, or take the initiative to set up a more international project and invite them in.
As anyone who has studied the Truth about the World as revealed by Grand Master Terry Pratchett in Good Omens, where He reveals The Truth about the World, will know, the Tibetans have for millennia been digging tunnels all over the world. This is just another Sinister Plot to continue this, no doubt, by the Secret Masters in Shangri La, the very same people who are behind both the evil Chinese government, President Obama and Boris Johnson. It is time for the X-men to step in and rectify matters, one feels.
A multinational research station where everyone keeps things for themselves?
Both the US and the USSR do keep some things to themselves such as military technologies that have been repurposed to support the ISS (communication systems in particular). Also, it's hard to attract commercial interest in the ISS as a research platform, if they have to worry about ongoing Chinese espionage on the ISS itself.
"The obvious rebuttal is the well-known Chinese government penchant for stealing technology. "
If it's tech that we're not using, then I say let the Chinese run with it.
HA lol!
This has about as much to do with scientific research as [insert something funny here].
This is China. This is the South China Sea. This is about sovereignty. It is about establishing "use" and "continued presence" to extend national boarders or to strengthen their position in that regard. Which is ultimately about resources.
This happens all the time internationally, though I'll admit this is the first time I've seen it occur as a underwater sealab! It does have the bonus that once in place there is very little anyone can really do about it.
For a nicer way to do it see this:
http://www.businessinsider.com...
Canada and Denmark contest a barren speck of rock as territory, but it seems both military's at least have a sense of humour!
They are collecting Manganese Nodules.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
Is this base gonna be more like Starfish or
preparation for Seveneves ?
https://app.box.com/WitthoftResume Code: https://github.com/cellocgw
On the other hand, developing the technology to work at those depths - perhaps for controlling robots at short range, possibly using ultrasonic links instead of optical fibre (because ultrasonics tangles less than tethers of any sort) - is a plausible purpose behind such a development.
Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
You might want to click the link, it was a joke.
Manganese nodules was the excuse the US government used to cover up the Glomar Explorer's real mission of recovering a soviet sub in the deep ocean.
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
If I'm a cave man who figured out how to make fire, and the guy from the cave next watches and figures out my technique, I have not lost anything.
You lost any technological advantage you had from fire over that other caveman. If they're a member of your tribe, you'll probably come out ahead due to cooperation between you two. But if he's a member of a rival tribe, then you may die as a result.
First they came for the Vietnamese, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Vietnamese. Then they came for the Filipino, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Filipino. Then they came for the Malaysians, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Malaysian. Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
Poetry aside, there is a good reason to be concerned about territorial expansion, especially when it's projecting military power uncomfortably close to neighbors. If it continues unchecked, then if or when a war does break out, the first fighting will be to capture that nearby territory in a powerful first strike. That eliminates potential allies for opponents, and concentrates the first counterattacks on liberating the conquered territory.
That's how it worked in previous wars, at least. In a long-range modern war between superpowers, territorial expansion primarily serves as yet another target. It's another place for satellites to watch, another suspicious building, and another place that might hide another missile. Once the big powers break out their big weapons, it won't matter whose sons or daughters are in uniform. What will matter is who can keep their weapons operational long enough to fire at the enemy, and I doubt very much that anyone will care about "dignity".
As I recall, the US hasn't exactly been tolerant of, say, a nation getting friendly with the Russians, if it happened to be a large island 1,000 miles off our shores.
Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
I was thinking SeaQuest DSV (the first season, before it got all weird and messed up). And also SeaLab.
Isn't anybody going to mention Spongebob?
Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
Just think about the engineering that'll have to go into something like that. I bet they'll make a lot of new discoveries. They'll also pay a price for it. Achievements like that don't come cheap, in money or men. One screwup at that depth and that's it.
The fact that that operation was somewhere in the grey area between fraud, "back operations" and milking foreign (American) tax payers for every penny they're worth does nothing to deny the fact that manganese nodules exist (first discoveries were on the UK's Challenger expedition in the 1870s to 80s), that they do have interesting chemistry, that they do exist in interesting quantities (though patchy in both abundance and contents), and that people are looking at the possibilities of exploiting them. Contracts were signed a couple of years ago for evaluation and possible exploitation of sites in the South-Central Pacific, and were discussed on Slashdot at the time. Don't you remember?
You know, if I lived in a country that conducted a lot of trade with a potentially hostile country with whom I shared an ocean borderline, I'd take their actions quite seriously. Which is exactly what I do - living on the Atlantic coast of Europe.
Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
I am with you on this. China is most definately trying to assert its dominance in the region. This has little to do with deep sea scientific research, therefore it is another Glomar Explorer, another attempt to cover up something clearly military/political in nature by stating it is for scientific research.
You know, if I lived in a country that conducted a lot of trade with a potentially hostile country with whom I shared an ocean borderline, I'd take their actions quite seriously. Which is exactly what I do - living on the Atlantic coast of Europe.
I fart in your general direction from Maryland. :P
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?