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DEA Wants Access To Medical Records Without Warrant (thedailybeast.com)

mi writes from a report via The Daily Beast: Unlike in cases of commercially-held data, where the Third Party doctrine allows police warrantless access, prescription drug monitoring databases are maintained by state-governments. The difference is lost to the Obama Administration, which argues that "since the records have already been submitted to a third party (a state's Prescription Drug Monitoring Program) that patients no longer enjoy an expectation of privacy." The DEA has claimed for years that under federal law it has the authority to access the states' prescription drug databases using only an "administrative subpoena." These are unilaterally issued orders that do not require a showing of probable cause before a court, like what's required to obtain a warrant. Some states, like Oregon, fight it; some, like Wisconsin, do not. "The federal government is eager to see all these databases linked," reports The Daily Beast. "The Department of Justice has developed a software platform to facilitate sharing among all state PDMPs. So far 32 states already share their PDMP data through a National Association of Boards of Pharmacy program. The Comprehensive Addiction and Recovery Act (CARA), which passed Congress in March, calls for expanding sharing of PDMP data."

19 of 176 comments (clear)

  1. First it was the NSA ... by Taco+Cowboy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ... then FBI, then DEA ...

    The system rots, from within

    --
    Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
    1. Re:First it was the NSA ... by zenlessyank · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The DEA was rotten the day it went into service. All it did was give others the chance to catch its infection. The DEA is the most Nazi inspired organization in this country. I will do any damn drug I want. FUCK YOU DEA. I hope everyone in your organization gets the AIDS and dies a bloody horrible death.

    2. Re:First it was the NSA ... by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Let the addicts have their favored poison, and quietly remove themselves from the gene pool.

      I would rather we had a drug problem than suffer the continuing existence of the DEA. Oh, wait - we still do have a drug problem as well as a DEA. And when the agency goes, can we have back the parts of the Constitution that we deleted for their benefit?

    3. Re: First it was the NSA ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This will annoy a lot of people, especially since it appears to be true. Many people understandably question the abuses of government, yet they want the populace to be disarmed, which would enable more abuses by the government.
      Off-topic I admit, but true.

      Maybe you haven't noticed, but all those weapons you cherish are doing jack shit for our freedoms.
      You and your ilk continue harping on the second amendment as if it were a guardian against governemtn overreach/tyranny. Well guess what dumbo, government has already gone astray and in daylight too. I ain't seeing you hillbillies up in arms and fighting for our freedoms.

    4. Re:First it was the NSA ... by Cytotoxic · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I will do any damn drug I want..

      I've never done any sort of illicit drug, and I stand behind your take. I too will do any damn drug I want. (in my case that happens to be none, but still)

      This part of the drug argument should be simple for all to comprehend. What you chose to do with your own body, mind and life is up to no one but you. And any prick who wants to pick up a gun and point it at you "for your own good" can go rot in a special place in hell. Whether that gun is intended to keep you safe from addiction, or keep you out of hell for loving the wrong person, or any of the other myriad things that nannies want to prevent consenting adults from doing with each other.

      I don't personally do any of these things, and that answer would be the same the day after they are all legalized, but that doesn't mean that I can't comprehend the evil that is inherent in using force to make people live according to your personal moral code.

  2. Hey, Obama, Trump doesn't need any help... by chaboud · · Score: 3, Interesting

    As a Obama supporter (twice), can I just say:

    Dude... Obama... stop. The tin foil hat brigade is giving me that knowing nod of "see? We fucking told you", and I have no reasonable retort. The Constitution was supposed to be your wheelhouse.

    1. Re:Hey, Obama, Trump doesn't need any help... by Rick+Zeman · · Score: 3, Insightful

      As a Obama supporter (twice), can I just say:

      Dude... Obama... stop. The tin foil hat brigade is giving me that knowing nod of "see? We fucking told you", and I have no reasonable retort. The Constitution was supposed to be your wheelhouse.

      Gee, thanks.

  3. Fuck The DEA by zenlessyank · · Score: 5, Funny

    Fuck them forever. Fuck them from day one. Fuck anyone who works for them. Fuck anyone who supports them. Fuck any country that employs them. Lastly...FUCK THE DEA

  4. makes no sense by geoskd · · Score: 4, Interesting

    What is with all these requests for data without a warrant? If they have a legitimate request for access, it will be very easy for them to get a warrant. The only reason I can think of to want warrantless access is to circumvent constitutional protections.

    --
    I wish I had a good sig, but all the good ones are copyrighted
    1. Re:makes no sense by russotto · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Several reasons, here's two:

      1) They want to run correlations to see if they can find people abusing prescription medicines and bust them.

      2) If they want to put pressure on someone for any reason, they want to dig up their prescription records. Aha, you've had several prescriptions for Percocet, does your professional review board know about your drug habit? Does your boss know you've been prescribed SSRIs? Do you want them to? No? Better play ball.

    2. Re:makes no sense by geoskd · · Score: 5, Insightful

      why should you be protected if you're a criminal? What's the reasoning. Stop committing crimes.

      Because if there was a way to know in advance who the criminals are, getting the warrants would be trivial, even for large numbers of them. Your entire point is that it should be permitted for agencies to go on "fishing expeditions". That is exactly the kind of government behavior that our constitution forbids, and with good reason.

      The simplest counter argument I have is that drug use *shouldn't be illegal*, so what is and is not criminal seems to be up for debate, so giving the government wholesale powers of enforcement for what many believe shouldn't even be crimes is just begging for trouble. What happens when tomorrow our government declares that being a democrat is illegal? Think that sounds ridiculous? I believe Joseph McCarthy proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that this a is a very real possibility. Every time we grant the government *any* new powers, they take one step closer to the same status as the Taliban. Remember that when you want to give these agencies powers they never had before. The only thing that would stop a president Trump from doing half the crazy things he says he will do, is the fact that our constitution expressly prohibits him from getting away with it, even if he is elected president.

      --
      I wish I had a good sig, but all the good ones are copyrighted
  5. Explicit consent? by Rick+Zeman · · Score: 3, Insightful

    FTFA: The Obama administration disagrees, and argues that since the records have already been submitted to a third party (Oregon’s PDMP) that patients no longer enjoy an expectation of privacy.

    How do *I* lose my rights if a second party turns over info to a third party?

    Now I see why the Obama administration has had such a hardon for electronic medical records.

  6. Re:Sadly, technically correct by nbauman · · Score: 3, Informative

    HIPAA was written specifically to ensure that medical records are not passed around without the patient's consent.

    ...or so, any normal person would believe.

    Based on my conversations with lawyers, I would say that the HIPAA laws were written specifically to ensure that hospitals could disclose medical records to law enforcement without incurring any liability.

    When politicians want to do something particularly outrageous, they use Orwellian language. They call it the "Privacy Rule" because it takes away your privacy.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
    Covered entities may disclose protected health information to law enforcement officials for law enforcement purposes as required by law (including court orders, court-ordered warrants, subpoenas) and administrative requests; or to identify or locate a suspect, fugitive, material witness, or missing person.

    If you want something to be private and confidential, don't let it go in your medical record.

    A lawyer once told me that a medical record is a "public document." It's accessable to everyone with a "need to know," and that includes the janitor who mops up your room and is concerned about infections.

  7. Why we don't want a cashless society by MikeRT · · Score: 3

    If for no other reason than privacy, this is why a cashless society is totally undesirable if you value privacy. Literally every transaction you do is visible by or through a third party to the transaction. Therefore the third party doctrine would apply to your entire economic life.

    And you know that if we get there, no one in Congress is going to propose, let alone get passed, a bill that formally abolishes that doctrine and requires a warrant for every data request.

  8. That's not how it *should* work. by whoever57 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The government can't (or should not) pass a law that requires collection of data, then claim that people have no expectation of privacy in that data.

    What if the government passed a law requiring you to upload the contents of your computer to a massive database, then decided that it didn't need a warrant to access that same data?

    If the Supreme Court allows this, it shows that the justices are themselves corrupt.

    --
    The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
  9. Don't tell your doctor about marijuana by nbauman · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I would recommend that you never tell your doctor that you use marijuana.

    That will usually go into your medical record, because it's part of your medical and social history.

    Now with electronic medical records, anybody with access can do a text search for "marijuana" and find it.

    The most obvious problem that I can identify is that years later, you might have a legitimate need for opioids.

    For example, hip and knee replacements are very painful. In order to be successful, they require physical therapy, which is also very painful, and often can't be done right without opioids. (See Jane Brody's story in the New York Times about her own knee replacements.)

    If your medical record mentions marijuana, that can set off some (unscientific) guidelines for using opioids, which require that you sign a "pain contract." You have to take (unnecessary and expensive) drug tests, with (unnecessary and expensive) doctors' visits, with lower doses than would be medically appropriate, and they can discontinue opioids if you test positive for marijuana. Normally it would be a violation of medical ethics to abandon a patient, but these pain contracts allow doctors to unethically abandon a patient if they violate some of these provisions.

    The Veterans Administration just backed off on one of those pain contracts after a veteran sued them. But not everybody can afford a lawyer.

    http://journalofethics.ama-ass...
    Veterans Health Administration Policy on Cannabis as an Adjunct to Pain Treatment with Opiates
    Michael Krawitz
    AMA Journal of Ethics.
    June 2015, 17(6):558-561.

    If a doctor specifically asks about marijuana, I think a good answer would be, "You can't guarantee me that this information will be confidential, right?"

  10. Re:why does this database exist in the first place by nbauman · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Because there were about 30,000 deaths a year recently from opioids in the US.

    This widely-reported number deliberately confuses

    --people who take heroin to get high

    --people who take prescription drugs without a prescription to get high

    -- people who were appropriately prescribed opioids and died anyway

    -- people who were appropriately prescribed opioids but given doses that were too low and got additional drugs somewhere

    -- people who were prescribed opioids but couldn't afford them so they used cheaper heroin, etc.

    It is a legitimate problem, but the Drug Enforcement Agency runs things and their solution to all problems is to put people in prison. When you've got a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

    You could get a rational discussion of the problem in those silly European magazines like Lancet, BMJ or New Scientist. Unfortunately some of the Europeans are following the American example of stupidity.

  11. DEA will putting themselves out of a job? LOL by rsborg · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Let the addicts have their favored poison, and quietly remove themselves from the gene pool.

    I would rather we had a drug problem than suffer the continuing existence of the DEA. Oh, wait - we still do have a drug problem as well as a DEA. And when the agency goes, can we have back the parts of the Constitution that we deleted for their benefit?

    The entire idea that the DEA would remove the drug "problem" is laughable on the face of it. Their existence is predicated on the problem continuing to exist.

    --
    Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting
  12. My take on criminalization and addiction by hackwrench · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Drug addict: You mean if I come forward as a drug addict and try to get clean, they're going to arrest me and charge me with a crime? Forget that... I'll just put up with the addiction and try to keep it as quiet as possible.