Slashdot Mirror


Apple Announces Its New Desktop OS macOS Sierra Featuring Siri, Apple Pay (9to5mac.com)

After playing with the names of cats and a few California landmarks, Apple at WWDC 2016 announced that its desktop operating system will now be called macOS -- and its first version update is macOS Sierra. It comes with a range of new features including Siri, the digital voice assistant. The move comes roughly a year and a half after Microsoft brought its Cortana virtual assistant to desktop platform Windows 10. Sierra also supports Apple Pay payment service via Safari web browser. Ars Technica reports about some other features of macOS Sierra: Universal Clipboard answers a longstanding complaint of Mac and iOS users -- copying and pasting now works automatically between an iOS device and a desktop Mac device. iCloud now plays an expanded sync role, too, letting you move files and folders from Mac to Mac or from Mac to iOS. Another new feature called Optimized Storage can sweep through old documents and files and push them to iCloud, clearing up local disk space for other uses. It also can automatically dump your trash, clear your web history, and do some other behind the scenes sweeps. Tabs are coming to more and more applications. Federighi said that Apple wants tabs on all multi-window applications, and says that tabs can be flipped on without developer modification. Update: 06/13 18:55 GMT by M : macOS Sierra won't support many Mac models from 2007, 2008, and 2009. Find more information here.

35 of 249 comments (clear)

  1. desktop / mobile convergence? by danbob999 · · Score: 2

    Is that a step towards the convergence of OS X and iOS?
    How long before macOS be stuck with a walled garden in which we can't install non-approved "apps"?

    1. Re:desktop / mobile convergence? by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 2

      How long before macOS be stuck with a walled garden in which we can't install non-approved "apps"?

      As soon as an Apple A? is as fast as a Intel i5, there will be a KVM mode for the iOS devices, and then you'll have your desktop whenever you want it.

      802.11ad is on its way, and Apple is already moving the GPU to the display in preparation.

      It's possible you could see a preview of this at WWDC 2017 at the rate things are going, with an iOS Desk Set available that Christmas for $999.

      Replace the Mac Mini with a high-end iPod, make an 'Airtop' which has no main logic board but just a battery and a slot for the iDevice (in addition to 802.11ad for people wed to their Otterboxen), and then see if anybody still cares at all about the Mac Pro (it won't last for too long once this starts).

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    2. Re:desktop / mobile convergence? by tlhIngan · · Score: 2

      How long before macOS be stuck with a walled garden in which we can't install non-approved "apps"?

      Never, because the use cases are different.

      And anyhow, Apple couldn't get Microsoft and Adobe on board to support it.

      In fact, Apple's been loosening the restrictions - and in a weirdly RMS move, has made iOS open-source friendly. As in you can load in any app you can compile onto your iOS devices without Apple getting in the way.* Yes, you can "sideload" apps onto iOS, using Xcode.

      So yes, lots of previously banned applications are making their way to iOS using this (most were open-source anyhow).

      And yes, Adobe and Microsoft are huge companies who are affected if Apple made macOS a walled garden, so it's unlikely to happen. Also, it'll be trivial to jailbreak macOS - you can always boot the computer into Windows or Linux and edit the OS files manually, so locking down macOS is nigh-impossible.

      * - From source code. Apple frowns on people using this way to load on binaries (which is what happened to f.lux - they gave people binaries only, no source code) Apple wants if you do this, that you ship source code that is built. Yes, people have done this to pirate apps, and it does work. In a weird way Apple is enforcing open-source.

    3. Re:desktop / mobile convergence? by danbob999 · · Score: 2

      The average user can't side-load and this is what counts.

  2. macOS and FreeBSD leave no place for Linux. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Despite using Linux for a couple of decades, I switched to OS X after I experienced numerous problems with Linux. After spending so many hours fighting to get stuff like PulseAudio, GNOME 3 and systemd working, I finally had enough. Although it was expensive, I bought myself a Mac Mini.

    I didn't expect I'd ever say this, but OS X (or macOS or whatever it's called now) is superb. It is UNIX under the hood, but with a really nice UI. Most importantly, it just works. There's no fighting with it like there was with Linux. While upgrading my Linux system was always a crapshoot, I've never had any problems doing an upgrade on OS X. At this point I don't think I will ever have any reason to use desktop Linux ever again.

    I moved all of my servers over to FreeBSD. Like OS X, it was a breath of fresh air. Everything works so much better. Plus I get ZFS out of the box. Plus most of its code is released under much friendlier and freer licenses than so much Linux code is.

    So I need to ask, with OS X and FreeBSD available to us, what room does that leave for Linux? I know on my computers it means that there's no room for Linux any longer. FreeBSD is excellent for servers. OS X is excellent for workstations. That means that there's no need for Linux any longer.

    1. Re:macOS and FreeBSD leave no place for Linux. by LichtSpektren · · Score: 2

      FreeBSD is excellent for servers. OS X is excellent for workstations. That means that there's no need for Linux any longer.

      It takes me no time at all to get Ubuntu working on a workstation (I've yet to install it on anything that didn't just work out of the box!), and I don't have to sell my organs and children to afford it.

    2. Re:macOS and FreeBSD leave no place for Linux. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      FreeBSD is an excellent choice for server applications. Really, it is.

      Linux can still have a lot to offer for workstations and even laptops. So long as you don't try to wrestle with bleeding edge hardware and bleeding edge drivers, etc.

      Stick to Intel graphics and sound hardware and you shouldn't have any drama. I've used Ubuntu for everything and XFCE for my DE and can't really complain about anything. I have speed, stability, maximum flexibility and scriptability/customization. Something that you can't get in as generous quantities anywhere else.

    3. Re:macOS and FreeBSD leave no place for Linux. by danbob999 · · Score: 2

      So I need to ask, with OS X and FreeBSD available to us, what room does that leave for Linux?

      Not much. Servers (most web servers are running Linux), embedded devices (many, if not most WiFi routers use Linux), smartphones (Android has 80% market share) and super computers (most of the top 500 is running Linux). And then some desktop users. All other users, and by that I mean all 4 of them, use FreeBSD.

    4. Re:macOS and FreeBSD leave no place for Linux. by chipschap · · Score: 2

      How many times have you, word for word, posted this exact same thing?

  3. Depressing... by mlts · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I really don't care for Siri, nor the fact that the computer will have to actively listen in 24/7 to support that. I was hoping for some under the hood improvements, like a new filesystem, better software RAID, iSCSI, a package management/repository system usable by third parties, so signed code and repos would be easy to add, so we wouldn't need ports, brew, or other third party stuff. Maybe even more blue-sky stuff like having root be a role like Solaris as opposed to an actual user, filesystem snapshots (something like btrfs send/zfs send), deduplication (since all Mac laptops are SSD based, might as well have an offline dedup process to help with storage), maybe even build in a ESXi compatibile hypervisor, so virtualization is baked in and usable without third party utilities, which adds to security.

    I wish Apple would actually extend OS X to do more fundamental stuff, not 1-2 gewgaws.

    1. Re:Depressing... by R3d+M3rcury · · Score: 2

      In Apple's defense, the Keynotes tend to be more for "the public" than for developers. The last couple times I went to WWDC, I blew off the keynote. I was more interested in the appropriate platform's "State of the Union." I could sleep late and go to the conference hall around noon, eat lunch (before the lines get too long), and look over all the stuff that gets reported.

      So things like RAID, iSCSI, hypervisors, and the like get mentioned elsewhere because most reporters would just sort of glaze over that stuff.

    2. Re:Depressing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yeah, the first thing I want to know about most of the announced stuff is how easy it will be to optionally disable it.

    3. Re:Depressing... by Bryan+Ischo · · Score: 2

      I know it's silly, but the thing I would most like to see improved in MacOS is the print dialog. It's so hard to get a good printout on Mac OS these days; you have no controls for resizing or repositioning the printed material to ensure that it covers the page properly. There appear to be several different print dialogs that appear depending upon the application; so it's possible that I'm experiencing problems related to a particular application, and yet there is no print dialog that any application has ever produced on my Mac laptop that I would consider to be useable. And I don't understand why the print dialog wouldn't always be the same, as an operating system supplied bit of functionality.

      It just amazes me that Apple, which gave us the original desktop publishing revolution back in the 80's, can have such terrible print support now.

    4. Re:Depressing... by vux984 · · Score: 2

      I really don't care for Siri, nor the fact that the computer will have to actively listen in 24/7 to support that.

      Quick, someone read the new OSX EULA... and see all the fun stuff in there to allow Siri to work in OSX. Will it by default want to upload all your contacts and browsing search terms and the apps you use, and your calendar events, and your current location, etc to apple? I can't imagine it won't want to do that.

      A lot of the crap in the Windows 10 EULA was to give Cortana the data it would need to operate. I assume Apple will have to do the same for Siri now.

      It's going to be interesting to see how people react. Will we have big long /. tirades from long time Mac users ditching OSX and raging about OSX spyware? I doubt it. Instead we'll get gushing reviews about how they asked Siri on their laptop to find something, and then 2 days later when they tried to find that same something on their phone Siri "remembered" what they were looking for (on their desktop) and suggested it!

    5. Re:Depressing... by Zaurus · · Score: 5, Informative

      There IS a new filesystem. http://arstechnica.com/apple/2...

    6. Re:Depressing... by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 2

      It exists; it's Command-C / Command-Option-V, as it has been for many years now.

      But he wants to move files - so when something goes wrong, they get lost.

      --
      Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
  4. Boring by geek · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This WWDC is so boring I've actually stopped watching. Is it just me or is the age of Tim Cook extremely dull? This is like watching paint dry.

  5. Just as long as tabs can be turned OFF by the user by dgatwood · · Score: 2, Insightful

    As far as I can tell, the biggest advantage of a desktop OS over a tablet is the ability to have multiple monitors filled with dozens of windows. I can't even begin to imagine the hell that OS X would become if, for example, Terminal.app forced all of its windows into tabs, or even used tabs by default. Imagine doing all your work in a single terminal window running screen and you're roughly in the ballpark. If you've ever done this, you know what a nightmare it is, and not just because of the control-A behavior. The cognitive load induced by hiding the state of other windows is considerable.

    So I just want to make sure that it is as easy to disable the tabs feature systemwide as it is to disable the unnatural scroll direction feature. Not only do I not want tabs to be created automatically, I don't want them to be created at all. I don't want to accidentally release the mouse at the wrong time while dragging a window around and have two of my windows suddenly become a single window with tabs.

    Frankly, I don't like tabs even in a web browser, much less in any app that I use to actually get work done. Tabs mean having to manage a nested hierarchy of content state. Not only do I have to remember which browser window something is in, but also which tab. And to get to it, I have to remember three different keyboard navigation shortcuts—one to choose the app, one to choose the window, and a third one to choose the tab. And the headache gets even worse when you start minimizing windows into the dock, because the dock shows you only the frontmost tab. When you go to find something later, tabs make serious computer use an absolute nightmare.

    So yeah, that feature is fine for your non-power-user who is scared by having to see more than one window at a time, but it absolutely must be possible for users to kill it with fire as soon as they realize that it is hindering their workflow... because it invariably will for some people.

    --

    Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

  6. WTF Apple by wickerprints · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I've got a Mac and an iPhone, and although I would say I tend to favor Apple products, I would not call myself a fan.

    I just heard about this "rich links" feature in Messages where links to images or video will display in a preview attached to the link. My immediate reaction was one of revulsion and disbelief. That kind of "feature" is a security nightmare and there better be a way to disable it or else I am NOT going to upgrade. Whoever thought this was a good idea is a fucking idiot. Your phone should NEVER pre-emptively download the content of a hyperlink that someone else sends you. I don't care if it's a trusted site or not.

  7. This is awful by svendsen · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I don't even know what to think about these "innovations" and demos. Between the horrible fake scripts, diversity check lists (gay guy, old guy, mom, hipster indian, fat woman into fitness, etc), and many ideas that are "new" (only if you define new as a first on apple and not a first in industry) I really wonder if Apple as finally lost it? Glad they renamed OS X to mac OS cause that will improve security, reliability, etc.

    As I type this on my 2011 macbook pro (OS X 10.11) I wonder what I will do when I need to finally upgrade. Stick with apple just because it is what I know or finally jump to something else. And based off the multiple forums I am reading I am not the only one.

  8. In other words, no useful improvements by Indy1 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I am sick and tired of modern OS's focusing on adding 8 tons of crap thats not useful to 99% of the users, and not working on better I/O, networking, etc.

    Between Windows 10, and this, it sure seems like each new version just gets more and more bullshit stuffed into it, but no real improvements otherwise.

    --
    Lawyers, MBA's, RIAA? A jedi fears not these things!
    1. Re:In other words, no useful improvements by Dixie_Flatline · · Score: 2

      They are, those just aren't things that make the keynote. WWDC is a developer's conference, and most of the actual conference is sessions where the devs go to learn things about the OS.

      For instance, Apple has introduced a new scalable file system. That wasn't in the keynote, but it's a technical detail that will definitely benefit everyone. But it's not something that anyone other than us nerds are going to care about.

      Keep an eye on Ars Technica; I bet they'll have a list of interesting non-keynote things that will fit your bill.

    2. Re:In other words, no useful improvements by thegarbz · · Score: 2

      and not working on better I/O, networking, etc.

      Funny you mention Windows 10 and this line in the same breath. If it weren't for the privacy and UI fuckups in Windows recently you'd be getting exactly what you want. Under the hood Windows 10 is faster and far more efficient, better support for networking protocols .... though I guess they did fuck up the computer browser too so that one cancels itself out.

  9. Apple doesn't care about nerds anymore by LichtSpektren · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Macs were extremely popular with nerds a decade ago, when Linux required a lot of hacking and tweaking to get working on a laptop. "Just save the trouble and buy a Mac, it's certified UNIX with a nice graphical shell and the hardware was high quality" is what a lot of people said. Even at Linux developer conferences, everybody had Macs.

    Nowadays, the hardware is not competitive at all for the price point; plus the drives and RAM are soldered in, so tweakers have moved on to other things. OS X is falling way behind in features to Linux (native ZFS, kGraft, gaming and GPU support, etc.), and newer versions are splicing in iOS features rather than adding anything compelling.

    I don't blame them. Focusing on stylishness, ease of use and cross-device features (to encourage vendor lock-in) probably yields higher profits than repairability, high performance and terminal utilities. But that's also a dangerous road to go down.

    1. Re:Apple doesn't care about nerds anymore by geek · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Apple's main "technology" development in the past half decade has been making things "thinner." That's basically it.

      It's becoming increasingly clear their vision died with Jobs. That they've been able to coast for 5 years is a testament to the momentum that asshole built. But as it stands Apple is running on technology fumes. All "style" in the world can't mask feature retardation, i.e. their flagship OS is hopelessly outdated in most of its core technologies; they don't seem to be able to improve on a 15+ yr old filesystem, their graphics stack hasn't yet entered this decade, their online services are worst in class consistently, etc, etc, etc.

      I worked at Apple when they were tossing around ZFS as an option. I still for the lif eof me can not figure out why they cling to HFS+. That filesystem has eaten more data than any filesystem I can think of. Shameful how they drag that out.

  10. Then what to develop Mac apps? by tepples · · Score: 2

    How long before macOS be stuck with a walled garden in which we can't install non-approved "apps"?

    A developer needs Xcode for macOS to develop apps for iOS. Since Xcode 7, any Mac owner has been able to build apps from source and install them on an iOS device on the same Apple ID without charge. (This is a change from previous Xcode, which allowed only developers with a valid App Store seller account to do this.) The walled garden that you propose would reverse this trend. Under the walled garden that you propose, what would one use to develop apps for macOS?

    1. Re:Then what to develop Mac apps? by danbob999 · · Score: 2

      I'm sure they can come up with restrictions, such as you can develop apps for macOS and run them on your own Mac, but not send it to others without passing through the Mac App Store.

      Microsoft is doing something similar with its driver signing policy. You can develop your own driver and test it on your PC, but other's can't use it by default, making it a hassle to offer a driver without passing through MS.

  11. Ya that's not going to happen by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Apple is moving desktop Macs in the "consumer electronics toy" direction. They have been for some time now. Their focus has been on gewgaws, not fundamentals for a good bit. This is not the company you want to stick with for desktop computing if that's what you care about. They are the company for people who have the attitude of a computer being a disposable device they don't care much about: You get the one you like the looks of, don't worry a whole lot about the technical stuff, and use it until it breaks or you decide you like the looks of a new one better.

    If low level stuff and long-term support is what interests you, then you want to look at Linux or Windows. Yes really, Windows, Microsoft makes fundamental improvements to their OS quite often, and they are usually good. Either way while all OSes have fluff you don't care about and will keep getting it, Windows and the vast majority of Linux distros also spend plenty of time on the under-the-hood part.

  12. Re:Sierra with Siri by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I always wanted to choke MS's marketing group with their version names. There are, in my opinion, two acceptable methods of naming a product that continues to get new version:

    1) Version numbers. You can have just one number or number.number whatever you like. You decide how to increment them. What matters is that you are consistent, and that the number is easy to find.

    2) Version year. When you release a product it is named via whatever year it is released. Doesn't matter how much changed, it gets the release year in its name.

    Either one works well for quickly mentally comparing how out of date something is, as well as being able to impress that on users. But it needs to stay consistent or it gets all confusing. You can't go numbers to years and back or things get all fucked up.

    The XP and Vista crap is just totally stupid. Fuck off with that. How do I compare "Vista" to "XP"? They are both meaningless terms. It's as bad as Eclipse. No guys, I do NOT know the order of the Jovian moons, please just publish the version number and/or year clearly.

  13. Re:Just as long as tabs can be turned OFF by the u by tepples · · Score: 2

    The cognitive load induced by hiding the state of other windows is considerable.

    I agree with you. But when I've mentioned this before on Slashdot, a lot of replies were to the effect that "all maximized all the time" behavior is something that people can and ought to just learn to tolerate. I seem to remember their reasoning being along the lines that people got used to it on the Apple II, Commodore 64, IBM PC running DOS, and old Macs running Switcher, and they can get used to it now.

  14. Re:Sierra with Siri by rsborg · · Score: 2

    I always wanted to choke MS's marketing group with their version names. There are, in my opinion, two acceptable methods of naming a product that continues to get new version:

    1) Version numbers. You can have just one number or number.number whatever you like. You decide how to increment them. What matters is that you are consistent, and that the number is easy to find.

    2) Version year. When you release a product it is named via whatever year it is released. Doesn't matter how much changed, it gets the release year in its name.

    Either one works well for quickly mentally comparing how out of date something is, as well as being able to impress that on users. But it needs to stay consistent or it gets all confusing. You can't go numbers to years and back or things get all fucked up.

    The XP and Vista crap is just totally stupid. Fuck off with that. How do I compare "Vista" to "XP"? They are both meaningless terms. It's as bad as Eclipse. No guys, I do NOT know the order of the Jovian moons, please just publish the version number and/or year clearly.

    I was with you until you went off on searching XP vs. Vista - what's your gripe on searching including "Microsoft Windows" as your context?

    Numbers are meaningless - e.g. FF 47 - why the F should I care? That's why project names / named versions are meaningful. They are easier to remember and more meaningful. I think they should be combined (e.g. 10.5 Leopard is a great google search term).

    --
    Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting
  15. Airport Express does not solve the problem by sjbe · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Yes, if only Apple had been making something like that for the last decade. What a wonderful world we would be living in..

    Try again.

    The Airport Express does NOT solve the problem. It does not turn non-AirPrint printers into compatible ones by plugging into the USB port. You will need third party solutions to actually print to any non-AirPrint compatible printer attached to it. I actually own the hardware and have tried. Eventually I bought a third part print server (Lantronix xPrintServer) which solves the problem. It's ridiculous that any Mac cannot provide this functionality out of the box.

  16. Re:Sierra with Siri by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 2

    I don't mean with a google search, I mean for users. What I want is the ability to have an easy comparison system for how out of date something is. If the current version is 10 and you are on version 5, or if the current version is 2015 and you are on version 2002, I have an easy way to demonstrate how behind it is and thus help them understand why an upgrade is a good idea.

    For someone who's doing it as a job, as I am, it doesn't really matter. I can remember the progression, and the rough time of release, without a lot of issue. The problem is lay users and understanding how things have progressed and trying to sell them on that fact.

  17. Re:AirPrint by Chrontius · · Score: 2

    The Airprint Express didn't support AirPrint translation to conventional printers last time I checked. However, StarTech and Lantronix both offer print servers that adapt existing printers to AirPrint and/or Google Cloud Print.

  18. Re:Just as long as tabs can be turned OFF by the u by jafac · · Score: 2

    Yes, keyboard navigation in OS X is a total shit show. Apps behave differently to the keystrokes, and some don't respond at all (if the window is "hidden" instead of minimized - why is there a fucking difference?, and if you use a laptop from the built in screen at home, and then use multiple monitors at work, good luck getting UI's and windows to scale right. So much broken.

    Also, I know homebrew is nice and all, but OS X REALLY REALLY REALLY needs a decent package manager system. AND a FUCKING UNINSTALLER FOR FUCK"S SAKE. And a central way to find all of the places every app stores startup elements, configuration items, resources . . . etc.

    This is all basic "list of main things every OS should do"; and OS X does not get these. Release after release.

    --

    These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.