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Finnish Scientist Provides Another Explanation For The 'Impossible' EM Drive (examiner.com)

MarkWhittington quotes a report from Examiner: Ever since the EmDrive entered the news about a year or so ago, it has sparked considerable controversy. The device is alleged to work by using microwaves that produce, in some fashion as yet unknown to science, thrust. Many scientists suggest that the EM drive is impossible as it violates known physics. However, a number of tests conducted in Great Britain, Germany, China, and at NASA's Eagleworks at the Johnson Spaceflight Center have resulted in thrust that cannot, as yet, be explained by experimental error. The International Business Times reported that a Finnish scientist has published an article in a peer-reviewed science journal with a possible explanation as to how the drive works. International Business Times writes, "A new peer-reviewed paper on the EmDrive from Finaland states that the controversial electromagnetic space propulsion technology does work due to microwaves fed into the device converting photons that leak out of the closed cavity, producing an exhaust. The research, entitled "On the exhaust of electromagnetic drive," is published in the journal AIP Advances 6 and is the brainchild of Dr Arto Annila, a physics professor at the University of Helsinki; Dr Erkki Kolehmainen, an organic chemistry professor at the University of Jyvaskyla; and Patrick Grahn, a multiphysicist at engineering software firm Comsol."

12 of 299 comments (clear)

  1. Must be a first for slashdot RTFA skimmed summary by Crashmarik · · Score: 5, Informative

    Recent reports about propulsion without reaction mass have been met on one hand with enthusiasm and on the other hand with some doubts. Namely, closed metal cavities, when fueled with microwaves, have delivered thrust that could eventually maintain satellites on orbits using solar power. However, the measured thrust appears to be without any apparent exhaust. Thus the Law of Action-Reaction seems to have been violated. We consider the possibility that the exhaust is in a form that has so far escaped both experimental detection and theoretical attention. In the thruster’s cavity microwaves interfere with each other and invariably some photons will also end up co-propagating with opposite phases. At the destructive interference electromagnetic fields cancel. However, the photons themselves do not vanish for nothing but continue in propagation. These photon pairs without net electromagnetic field do not reflect back from the metal walls but escape from the resonator. By this action momentum is lost from the cavity which, according to the conservation of momentum, gives rise to an equal and opposite reaction. We examine theoretical corollaries and practical concerns that follow from the paired-photon conclusion.

    Relevant portion of abstract bolded

  2. Re:This could be exciting by wierd_w · · Score: 5, Informative

    There's one problem though...

    I seem to recall that the net thrust exhibited by the em-drive is greater than the photon pressure of the microwaves. if the thrust was being produced by cancelling photon pairs escaping the system, then it would be some fraction of that potential, not greater than.

    I can see this explaining SOME of the thrust, but the deal breaker is the thrust being higher than the photon pressure of the microwaves it runs on. (Else, it would be easier and more efficient to just aim the magnetron's waveguide out the back of the ship.)

    Shawyer's non-peer reviewed "quantized inertia" explanation that abuses unruh radiation is more likely to explain the greater thrust values (and also makes some testable predictions.)

  3. Re:If this is correct it should be easy to check by flyingfsck · · Score: 4, Informative

    Well, maybe you should read the article. They postulate that the exhaust is indeed paired photons, which are impossible to observe. I'm just not convinced that such an EM drive will be more efficient than simply placing a lump of decaying matter at the focus of a reflector and using ordinary infrared photons as the drive.

    --
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  4. Re:If this is correct it should be easy to check by jeepies · · Score: 5, Informative

    That's not how destructive interference works in the EM field. The photons at a point of destructive interference are diverted to area of constructive interference. They don't continue on as an unobservable photon pair. A point of destructive interference in a wave means the photons aren't there. In terms of the wave equation it means the probability of finding a photon at that location is 0. That's not because photons masking each other, it's because physically they are never present at that point.

  5. Re:This could be exciting by c9brown · · Score: 5, Informative

    For anyone interested, the "quantized inertia" explanation was proposed by McCulloch, and is here: http://dx.doi.org/10.1209/0295-5075/111/60005

  6. Re:Good by quenda · · Score: 2, Informative

    That was a bit flippant, so let me explain. "American" is a nationality, but Swedish is also an ethnicity.
    In North America you have borders with barbed-wire fences and long queues where you smile at idiot homeland security drones who can really ruin your day.
    In Europe there is a sign at the side of the road "Welcome to Finland" in 3 or so languages.
    Ethnicity and language there is more relevant than the nationality on your passport.

  7. Re:Good by nicnet · · Score: 3, Informative

    Th word I was looking for was "Spanish", not Hispanic or Latin American.
    The point is that speaking a language does NOT define one's nationality.
    Most of my (mother-tongue) Swedish speaking friends here in Finland, would without a doubt call themselves Finnish. The exceptions are those that come from Sweden. Pretty sure that if Linus was my friend, he would be be in the non-exceptions.
    Finland has 2 official languages.

  8. Re:Good by silentcoder · · Score: 2, Informative

    But Finland has had a significant Swedish-speaking minority for a very long time (long before the EU opened the borders). They have no herritage with Sweden and the only thing they have in common with the Swedes is that they speak a dialogue of the language. They are no more Swedish than the entire population of Switzerland is German (despite speaking a variant of German as their language).

    --
    Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
  9. Re: Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Informative

    "From the late 12th century, Finland was an integral part of Sweden, a legacy reflected in the prevalence of the Swedish language and its official status." [ https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finland]

  10. Re:Kinda sounds like how a LASER works by thegarbz · · Score: 1, Informative

    It's like a LASER with microwaves. Dare I say a MASER? :-)

  11. Re: If this is correct it should be easy to check by rubycodez · · Score: 3, Informative

    except it takes 300MW to produce a newton of thrust, which is why I don't buy the argument of exhaust photons causing EM drive thrust, the level of photons (they're all contained in any practical sense) leaving the device, if any, are far far too tiny to produce thrust. so if something is really going on, it isn't simple photon propulsion

  12. Re: If this is correct it should be easy to check by lgw · · Score: 3, Informative

    Yup, the paper about escaping photons is rubbish. But then, I'm assuming this drive is as well, unless someone can manage to get thrust out of it above the hard-to-isolate background noise.

    The gravity wave detector guys have the same isolation problem, but they can use correlation between detectors to prove results. Extreme claims require, well, more than "this might be something other than noise".

    --
    Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.