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Drivers Prefer Autonomous Cars That Don't Kill Them (hothardware.com)

"A new study shows that most people prefer that self-driving cars be programmed to save the most people in the event of an accident, even if it kills the driver," reports Information Week. "Unless they are the drivers." Slashdot reader MojoKid quotes an article from Hot Hardware about the new study, which was published by Science magazine. So if there is just one passenger aboard a car, and the lives of 10 pedestrians are at stake, the survey participants were perfectly fine with a self-driving car "killing" its passenger to save many more lives in return. But on the flip side, these same participants said that if they were shopping for a car to purchase or were a passenger, they would prefer to be within a vehicle that would protect their lives by any means necessary. Participants also balked at the notion of the government stepping in to regulate the "morality brain" of self-driving cars.
The article warns about a future where "a harsh AI reality may whittle the worth of our very existence down to simple, unemotional percentages in a computer's brain." MIT's Media Lab is now letting users judge for themselves, in a free online game called "Moral Machine" simulating the difficult decisions that might someday have to be made by an autonomous self-driving car.

15 of 451 comments (clear)

  1. News at 5... by x0ra · · Score: 5, Insightful

    People value their own lives..

    1. Re:News at 5... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      People value their own lives, fuck the rest of you.

      Fixed that for you.

    2. Re: News at 5... by bigpat · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The premise that people make split second ethical judgements is delusional. What people do is react. And many times they don't react in time to avoid the worst possible outcome.

      And if they survive their brains spend hours, days, weeks and years even going over and over what happened. The brain in trying to learn from what happened adds more processing than was therein the first place.

      Our false recollections. All the things you could have, should have, but didn't have time to think about when really all you had time to do was jerk the wheel and BAM!

      And now a bunch of delusional people are trying to apply some false notion of ethics to decision making that should be as simple as stop the car before hitting something. There isn't enough time to consider other options. There never was enough time. People just think there was because our brains work that way.

    3. Re:News at 5... by NotInHere · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Yeah. In fact, SUVs are well known to cause lots of damage in SUV - non SUV crashes to the normal vehicle, while causing minor damage to the SUV. The passengers of the normal vehicle are much more likely to die than the SUV passengers. So people already do the choice now.

    4. Re: News at 5... by bigpat · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The problem is that people replay traumatic accidents over and over in their heads and end up thinking that they had time to consider all the scenarios when they probably barely had time to react in the first place. The brain's attempt to learn from an accident and think of the "what-if" is what creates these embellished recollections.

      Now people are applying this delusional thought process to machines and setting unrealistic expectations.

      Just need to keep it simple and stop the car as safely as possible.

    5. Re: News at 5... by geekmux · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The premise that people make split second ethical judgements is delusional. What people do is react. And many times they don't react in time to avoid the worst possible outcome.

      Humans can and do make "split second" ethical judgements, based on their own ethics. A mother will likely try and save her children, even at the expense of her own life. A teenager may be more about self-preservation whatever the cost. The future will be an algorithm deciding for you, no matter what your position is in society, and no matter what your beliefs are. Or perhaps your position in society will matter, as the President's vehicle may be programmed for self-preservation no matter what.

      And if they survive their brains spend hours, days, weeks and years even going over and over what happened...

      Oh yes, that will never happen once the magical machines start taking lives. No mother will do this once their child is gone, wondering how the algorithm got it so wrong. No father will want to punish the machine programmer for taking their child.

      If we think the "trial and error" period for IoT will be bad, this will be fucking horrible.

      And that's just the shit we have to deal with before the hacking starts.

    6. Re: News at 5... by anarcobra · · Score: 5, Insightful

      > should be as simple as stop the car before hitting something
      So much this.
      I have a really hard time thinking of any realistic situation where killing you will save 10 people.
      What? Ten people are just standing out in the street and the only other option is to drive off a cliff?
      Fuck them. Why are they in the middle of the road?
      Just hit the brakes and hope for the best.
      Since it's an automatic car it shouldn't be driving fast in a zone with pedestrians anyway, and people shouldn't be walking on highways.

  2. That's normal by rrohbeck · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Save the environment, reduce carbon emissions, save water, reduce debt... unless it affects me financially.

  3. Re:It Doesn't Matter; It Won't Ever Happen by Fwipp · · Score: 5, Insightful

    But the car doesn't need to make a psychic "This is the most valuable life" calculation/decision.

    It just uses its regular crash-avoidance behavior (say, hitting the brakes), and maybe somebody dies. The cop on the scene decides that the pedestrian probably shouldn't have been trying to cross the freeway, and everyone else moves on with their lives. The end.

  4. Re:contrived examples by Tim+the+Gecko · · Score: 4, Insightful

    These scenarios are just a little bit contrived... I can't fathom any real life scenario where any of these situations would occur with the odds of both options being equal, which is the point where the software would be called upon to exhibit a preference of one option over another.

    Exactly. Why don't people discuss the millions of small decisions - "how quickly shall I go through this stop sign?", "should I signal this turn or is it too much hassle?". Those are where the existing human software is causing bad consequences on a daily basis.

    No, let's discuss the one in a billion corner case instead.

  5. Re:So Republicanism wins again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    This. It's why they support the Founding Fathers who preferred liberty over death. Those people thought rights were more important than life. We're seeing the same problem today when the Republicans vote for due process over denying gun purchases. We should deny gun purchases by default rather than allowing them by default.

  6. Re:It Doesn't Matter; It Won't Ever Happen by rudy_wayne · · Score: 3, Insightful

    You apparently have just arrived here from another planet, because that's not how the legal system works here.

  7. Re: It's a liability issue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    fucking pretentious cunts "OMG never speak of the movie even though your message will be clear to more people, because the book was better."

    fuck you

  8. Even simpler by TheLink · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Hahaha. It's even simpler than that. Everyone seems to be making the assumption that the cars will be such driving geniuses. That's not going to happen for quite a long while.

    0) We all know that stopping in the middle of the highway is dangerous, BUT the way the laws are written in most countries, it's practically always your fault if you drive into the rear of another vehicle especially if it didn't swerve into your path and merely braked suddenly, or worse was stationary for some time.

    1) Thus for legal and liability reasons the robot cars will be strictly obeying all convincing posted speed limits (even if they are stupidly slow by some mistake, or by some prankster), and will stick to speeds where they would be able to brake in time to avoid collisions or at least fatal collisions. Whichever is slower.

    2) In most danger situations the robot cars will brake and try to come to a stop ASAP all while turning on its hazard lights. Which shouldn't be too difficult at those said speeds.

    3) If people die because of tailgating it's the tailgater's fault. Same if the driver behind doesn't stop.

    4) There are hardware/software failures then it's some vendors fault.

    5) If braking won't avoid the problem even at "tortoise speeds", in most cases fancy moves wouldn't either. In the fringe cases where fancy moves would have helped but braking wouldn't AND it would be the robot car's fault if it braked, the insurance companies would be more than willing to take those bets.

    The odds of the car being designed to do fancier moves to save lives are practically zero. If I was designing the car I wouldn't do it - imagine if the car got confused and did some fancy moves to "avoid collision" and killed some little kids. In contrast if it got confused and came to stop ASAP if any little kids are killed it would more likely be someone else's fault.

    If you are a human driver/cyclist/motorcyclist you better not tailgate such cars.

    Look at the Google car accident history, most of the accidents were due to other drivers. Perhaps I'm wrong but my guess is it's because of "tailgating". Those drivers might still believe the AI car was doing it wrong but the law wouldn't be on their side.

    --
  9. Re: It's a liability issue by l0n3s0m3phr34k · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "I, Robot" is a collection of short stories. As "Golden Age" scifi it's top-of-the-line, but it's pretty outdated so any one story from it would make a pretty horrible movie. Smith's movie actually incorporates several themes and ideas from the original book. Personally, I thought the movie was quite interesting, especially the idea of "emergent behavior". We're just now using the idea in swarm programing of bots, letting them figure out their own best patterns of moving around together.