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President Obama Should Pardon Edward Snowden Before Leaving Office (theverge.com)
An anonymous reader writes from a report via The Verge: Ever since Edward Snowden set in motion the most powerful public act of whistleblowing in U.S. history, he has been living in exile in Russia from the United States. An article in this week's New York Magazine looks at how Snowden may have a narrow window of opportunity where President Obama could pardon him before he leaves office. Presumably, once he leaves office, the chances of Snowden being pardoned by Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump are miniscule. Obama has said nothing in the past few years to suggest he's interested in pardoning Snowden. Not only would it contradict his national security policy, but it will severely alienate the intelligence community for many years to come. With that said, anyone who values a free and secure internet believes pardoning Snowden would be the right thing to do. The Verge reports: "[Snowden] faces charges under the Espionage Act, which makes no distinction between delivering classified files to journalists and delivering the same files to a foreign power. For the first 80 years of its life, it was used almost entirely to prosecute spies. The president has prosecuted more whistleblowers under the Espionage Act than all president before him combined. His Justice Department has vastly expanded the scope of the law, turning it from a weapon against the nation's enemies to one that's pointed against its own citizens. The result will be less scrutiny of the nation's most powerful agencies, and fewer forces to keep them in check. With Snowden's push for clemency, the president has a chance to complicate that legacy and begin to undo it. It's the last chance we'll have."
but ES won't be one
He'll have to pardon Hillary first
Presumably, once he leaves office, the chances of Snowden being pardoned by Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump are miniscule.
And what makes the chances of Snowden being pardoned by Obama non-miniscule?
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
POTUS should do all sorts of things, according to many people. He should come clean about the alien reptile people. He should grab a bite to eat every now and then to keep his energy level up. He should pardon all the whistle blowers that were promised the most transparent administration in history.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Whenever i see planted opinions masquerading as legitimate, organic thought, I cam't help but ask.
Snowden made a choice to go further than he should have. He could have become a whistle-blower, and had the protections provided by that, but instead, he chose to just release these documents out there. He clearly had a knowledge that he was violating the law, or he would not have fled the country when doing it.
A 'pardon' suggests that you've done something wrong but are being let of lightly because we are just that nice. Give the guy a damn medal.
Is there a compromise stance O could take, such as limiting any sentence to 2 years max or the like?
Table-ized A.I.
Actually, since Trump has already spoken against Snowden, it seems more likely that Obama would pardon Snowden. Trump's nature is very unlikely to walk back on Snowden. However, Obama might not resist the urge to tweak a President elect Trump's nose by pardoning Snowden.
President Obama is many things, but on his list of top personal identities, I don't see any identity that would pardon Edward Snowden. I think he's a good man, and even a good president under the circumstances, but it ain't going to happen.
Just to clarify my analysis, let me pick the personal identity of "politician". I happen to think it might be Obama's #1 identity, but it's certainly near the top of his list. Pardoning Snowden would be extremely bad as a political move and would give enormous fuel and enthusiasm to his political enemies.
The best candidate to pardon Snowden would probably be a philosopher who was primarily concerned about right and wrong, and you better not hold your breath waiting for one to become president. I actually think that Obama has a philosophical streak, but not in his top 10 identities. His identity as a lawyer is certainly higher, and professional lawyers are trained to ignore such trivialities as right and wrong.
On the third hand, I also blame the big dick Cheney, both for creating the personal-privacy-abusing national security apparatus that Obama has to deal with (in his persona as a realist) and for stuffing the entire civil service with ideologues. That may be the worst legacy of Dubya's miserable failure of an administration. The federal civil service was supposed to be task-oriented and apolitical, an organization of professionals who would competently and impartially administer whatever legislation the political process threw at them, and even ignoring political pressures from the executive branch. Not so under Cheney and his cronies, who actively worked to drive out competent careerists and carefully screened the personal politics of all new hires. Of course the punchline is that the so-called Republican Party now blames Obama for being unable to fix the system they worked so hard to break and keep broken.
Pardoning Snowden? You'd be better off hoping they decided corporations are inhuman monstrosities hiding under the legal fiction of decency.
Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
He hasn't stood trial nor been convicted of anything.
> Trump might. Just to spite Obama. Or not, because I doubt he gives a crap about Snowden (he's old news).
Honestly, what are the chances that Trump even understands what Snowden and Manning are about?
Does he have an ounce of integrity to his being? Does he have any comprehension of right and wrong? His racist brain-spasming and the fact that he got rich from inheriting his dad's fortune and multiplied it through ponzi schemes leads me to believe that the man is a nihilistic narcissist.
The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
There is an endless discussion about everything but the real issue:
Our freedom is being completely destroyed along with the hope that we will ever get it back.
Our future is being threatened. Our lives are at risk.
The man deserves jail time. There are many more criminals on the Internet and he made public government secrets that compromise our security as well as gave terrorists insight on how to avoid being traced. Edward Snowden should be executed.
Snowden should be tried for the crimes he (allegedly) committed. Let the trial be as public as possible. I won't clamor for jail time or execution until a jury finds him guilty (innocent until proven guilty and all that). The punishment should fit the crime.
Nope... Nixon got one.
I'm not a Trump supporter by any means. I'm a #NeverTrump but creating straw men does not help your cause. He didn't make it simply by Daddy's money. There are plenty of people who got daddy's money and lost it all. From rags to riches to rags in three generations.
I was in the building trades and he was very well liked by both union men (which I was) and professional men (which I became). He was competent and audacious and built really interesting projects
Do not take this as me being a Donald Trump supporter for his presidential run. Again I'm a #NeverTrump. But don't build strawmen either. It doesn't help.
If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
Nope, you can be pardoned for any crime. A conviction firmly establishes that a crime occurred, but the president can pardon you for any federal offense. See Carter's pre-emptive pardon of all the draft dodgers and Ford's pardon of Nixon, before charges were even filed.
Now, technically, accepting a pardon means that you were guilty of said crime. Hence, why Ford may have thought the pardon of Nixon was an elegant compromise. He admits wrongdoing and had already resigned, and we stop trying to throw him in jail.
Your ad here. Ask me how!
No one seems to have detected any apology from Trump.
I'm sure he's sorry they confessed. What other apology does he need to make? They confessed, and Trump had nothing to do with that or with convicting them or setting the sentence. Should he feel sorry that he thought the murder/rape of a jogger in a public park merited the death penalty?
If you scratch an ardent Trump supporter, you find a hater.
You don't even need to scratch the surface of the Trump haters to find a hater.
The president could pardon someone for "any federal felonies committed" but not misdemeanors. Then Snowden could be convicted of one or more misdemeanor charges like "improper handling of public records" or whatever misdemeanor charge is appropriate.
However, as TFS said:
The Obama administration has prosecuted more whistleblowers under the Espionage Act than all presidents before him COMBINED.
Obama pardoning Snowden is about as likely as Bill Clinton being a virgin.
What about Hillary Clinton? The Clintons have been in office or running for office most of their adult lives, since 1977. Most of her career, Bill was the public face of the the team, the actual office holder, while Hillary's role was PR, whitewashing negative information, from small issues of character to major scandals. For example, she assembled and led the teams trying to discredit women like Monica Lewinski and Paula Jones, trying to persuade the public that those events never happened and the women were liars. Her career has been all about HIDING the affairs of government officials. A whistle blower like Snowden, someone who puts the truth on public display, is her enemy, a total low-life from her perspective.
That's an interesting thought, I had to look it up.
Gerald Ford pardoned Richard Nixon, for all offences "committed or may have committed".
NOW, THEREFORE, I, GERALD R. FORD, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, pursuant to the pardon power conferred upon me by Article II, Section 2, of the Constitution, have granted and by these presents do grant a full, free, and absolute pardon unto Richard Nixon for all offenses against the United States which he, Richard Nixon, has committed or may have committed or taken part in during the period from January 20, 1969 through August 9, 1974.
Apparently the presidential pardon is for crimes, not offences.
Which, I suppose, is the right way to do it.
Pardoning implies that Snowden violated the law, which he clearly did. It's a way of acknowledging that the crime committed was the right thing to do.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
Obama is a globalist. Being a globalist is about control. Specifically information control.
Snowden messed with the new world order. He will not be pardoned by Obama.
I think everyone will agree that Trump loves money. A lot. Even Trump's most ardent supporters.
Did you know that Trump spent about $80,000 to run an ad in favor of the death penalty for the kids who confessed to the rape and murder of the Central Park jogger in 1989?
Funny thing about that story. They were innocent and their confessions were coerced lies. The REAL rapist was identified more than 10 years later and the kids (grown into prison-hardened adults) were released. No one seems to have detected any apology from Trump.
I had originally thought that Hillary had only the one issue (E-mail scandal), but it turns out she's got a whole rack of skeletons in her closet.
If particular note, she made (what she called) a "shameless pitch" to Russia on behalf of Boeing. Russia made a multi-billion dollar deal with Boeing, and Boing then put $900,000 into the Clinton foundation.
Or giving the OK for a uranium deal to a close friend, after which the same close friend put $2.35 million into the Clinton foundation.
Trump has a history of getting money through business, but Hillary has a history of getting money through corruption.
She's not called dirty Hillary for nothing!
Having a degree does not necessarily mean you're an expert in all matters. For instance, someone with a PhD in aerospace engineering (a true rocket scientist) is not necessarily someone I'd want performing my appendectomy. Maybe if it was Dr. Buckaroo Banzai performing the procedure I would, but he's a bit of a special case.
Does [Trump] have an ounce of integrity to his being? Does he have any comprehension of right and wrong? His racist brain-spasming and the fact that he got rich from inheriting his dad's fortune and multiplied it through ponzi schemes leads me to believe that the man is a nihilistic narcissist.
You might be interested in some of Hillary's less publicized dealings here (The dirty two dozen: Clinton's top controversies ) and here (Top 10 Clinton conflicts of interest).
Would you care to comment on Hillary's integrity, given the links provided?
People say he did it out of conviction or stayed true to his principles. Well, so does a suicide bomber.
But here's the difference: The suicide bomber is expecting a reward - 72 virgins or some other heavenly reward. Snowden knew he would throw away his life but he didn't do it for a personal reward. He did it for others, for his country.
I haven't made up my mind whether Snowden was misguided, stupid or justified. But I have concluded that the man is principled and a selfless patriot. He might be stupid and misguided, but he felt he did the right thing, at great personal cost to himself, for no personal reward.
Those that think Obama would be more likely to pardon Snowden clearly haven't been paying attention.
Earth is a single point of failure.
You can't pardon someone who isn't convicted
I keep seeing this. It doesn't appear to be true.
"When I was a young man, they told me if I voted for Goldwater, I'd get sent to Vietnam. I voted for Goldwater and sure enough, I got sent to Vietnam."
" Then, as if that wasn't enough, he leaks EVERYTHING, to foreign media. At least Ellsberg leaked to a reputable American media"
First, wikileaks isn't a media company. Second, two of those "reputable" (LOL) news sources that you speak of, including the Washington Post, ignored Manning when he contacted them--which is why he went to Wikileaks. Funny how one little detail like this fells a house of cards, which is in this case your babble about Manning being motivated by "hubris". Hubris! Same old argument, be it Assange Greenwald or Manning. You need a new script.
He was never tried or convicted, but was pardoned by President Ford. You only need to have the _potential_ to be convicted of a crime to be pardoned. As with Nixon, the President could claim that it would be in the best interests of the country. (Don't misread "could", I chose it intentionally.)
I have no idea why people invent fairy tales when historical facts are readily available.
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
Whoops, sorry for the misunderstanding. I assumed I was seeing talk of Manning because of many details including this:
Snowden's media buddies just dumped everything out there without any consideration whatsoever of the consequences. ..which is totally not true, and is much more often (wrongfully) attributed to Manning for the fact of Wikileaks' releasing a large volume. "Snowden's media buddies"--you mean, "journalists"? Media buddies would be an apt term if they were actually associated with any large media companies at the time. These "media buddies" as you call them, now at theintercept.org ,have slowly and responsibly reviewed and released documents, and in many cases refrained from leaking things they believe would harm national security. This includes fact of Afghanistan's telephone system being surveilled 24/7, which Wikileaks wound up revealing only because the Intercept refused to. Also, most of what was revealed with Snowden's leaks was domestic--so what consequences are you so scared of, huh?
They did not "dump everything out", and there has been consideration of the consequences. The government has offered no evidence whatsoever--after much review--that Snowden's actions did any tangible harm.. just like Manning.
the leaks EVERYTHING, to foreign media
Again, I thought you were talking about Manning leaking to Snowden, because this is totally wrong--many of the Intercept, including Laura Poitress and Glenn Greenwald, are Americans. Intercept also didn't exist when Snowden first leaked these things, but came about because of it. At least Wikileaks is "foreign".
That's great that you share emotional sentiment about the character of Snowden with Robert Gates--is that supposed to compel me? And I guess that's all you share, unless you give me some examples as to what he leaked that pisses you off so much. Is it how the feds have modified exported router hardware? Or their various invasions of Google's subnets? Does learning that our government sees us at enemies make you mad at Snowden ? Really?
What I mentioned about hubris (as you put it) still applies--when it comes to Assange or Snowden, the "egomaniac" / "narcissist" narrative is just too obvious.
Bullshit. He was a considered a suicide risk and ordered to — heavens! — sleep naked. That's not sleep deprivation, not torture, not cruel, not unusual, and certainly not punishment.
You are pushing for a record in the number of errors per word... Congratulations.
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
Three of the most egregious political scandals in modern history happened under republican presidents. Nixon saw more scandals than you've seen pornhub videos. Reagan had some truly terrible ones - Iran Contra was nothing short of committing high treason against the united states and he only escaped the death penalty by virtue of a willing fallguy (Oliver North). Shrub got your Afghanistan and Iraq which is an ongoing travesty that has cost well over 6 trillion dollars so far (almost half the entire US debt was spent on those wars in other words).
That's just a fact. Nobody is saying democrats are perfect or never have scandals but comparitively speaking, they've simply not been as egregious or on the same scale. Clinton got his dick sucked sure, but nobody died. Obama's IRS targetted right-wing groups - an action that makes perfect sense actually, if you're going to profile organisations like to cheat on their taxes then organisations opposed to paying taxes would be at the top of the list by virtue of their own public statements - and inconvenienced a lot of people (about 20% as much as racial profiling tends to inconvenience blacks and muslims - yet that is roundly supported by the same people who opposed this - in fact many of the victims of the IRS scandal are STILL vocally supportive of racial profiling) - it was bad, but, and this is important - nobody died.
The worst scandal you can actually point at a democrat in the last hundred years actually is probably Obama's drone program, which is in fact killing lots of innocent people. But the conservatives never take him to task over that since they started the program and sure as hell want to continue it next time they have the whitehouse. The criticism for that has largely come from the left actually. That has killed some people - lets be extremely generous and say 2000 or so. That's less than one tenth of what Nixon's Vietnam scandal killed, less than one fifteenth of what Reagan killed with the Iran Contra scandal (a number that is STILL busy going up) and about 1% of what Shrub killed with his bogus wars.
Unicode killed the ASCII-art *