Activision Abuses DMCA To Take Knock Indie Game Entirely Off Steam

Reader He Who Has No Name writes: We've seen brain-dead, overzealous, and entirely over-automated DMCA takedown requests bring down music and videos, but this may be the first case of an entire video game being knocked out. Earlier today David Prassel, creator of Trek Industries and developer of the not-without-controversy ORION: Dino Horde / Prelude and the early-access Guardians of ORION, posted that his current project had been entirely removed from Steam after a questionable DMCA allegation from Activision. Prassel explains further, "We've made Steam our primary platform, but this has put a definite scare into us going forward considering our entire livelihood can be pulled without a moment's notice, without any warning or proper verification. I cannot even confirm that the representative from Activision is a real person as absolutely no results pop up in any of my searches." Image comparisons against at least two of the weapon models claimed to be infringing were posted by Prassel and in at least one thread on a forum.
What's more, it appears Activision is alleging not a vertex-for-vertex and texel-for-texel theft and duplication of the Call Of Duty: Black Ops 3 2D -- 3D art assets, but in fact an infringing artistic similarity and design of separately created art content -- something that the DMCA does not cover (and which more would likely fall under copyright or possibly trade dress). Since this takedown falls directly in the middle of the Steam Summer Sale -- which probably is not a coincidence -- it will profoundly impact Trek Industry's potential sales.Polygon has more details.

Comments

What next?

[dan_waggoner]

Any response from Activision?

Re:What next?

[Anonymous Coward]

Apparently Activision have backed down

Re:What next?

[Anonymous Coward]

The comments in the linked blog say this was already resolved and Activision backed down. That was fast.

Re:What next?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes. The official response was "fuck off"

Re:What next?

[PIBM]

https://i.sli.mg/xpIy1W.png

This one is pretty damning for Orion

Re:What next?

[mindwhip]

IANAL but given my understanding of DMCA provisions:

Most likely the chain of events is actually...
1) Activision file DMCA with Steam
2) Steam take game down
3) TREK Industries file counter claim with Steam
4) Steam under DMCA rules have done their part with the initial takedown and respect the counter claim and restore content.

Next step is Activision have to file full court proceedings which will take a little time. Of course TREK have set themselves up for full on collapse if their counter claim is proven to be invalid or fraudulent but given the junk status their game already had I suspect its a cut and run situation for them. That is if Activision feel that the additional legal costs are worthwhile.

Re:What next?

[Anonymous Coward]

This gif is good switching between the Orion and CoD model:

http://i.imgur.com/pVDLi5L.gif

I was ready to come down on their side, but after seeing the screenshots it clear they stole the asset, now they're lying and trying to play the victims.

Takedown was legitimate. No sympathy.

Re:What next?

[jandrese]

Are we going to also come down on Activision for also copying bits of real weapons?

On the other hand, it's pretty hard for me to work up the energy to defend a derivative grey/brown shooter in 2016.

Re:What next?

[Anonymous Coward]

Wasn't there some sort of law preventing abusive or fraudulent uses of DMCA provisions and penalties for lawyers who did this sort of thing?

Re:What next?

[MachineShedFred]

So the question becomes: Did one copy the other, or are they both copied from the same source, being features of military weapons that actually exist.

If it's the first, good luck proving it. If it's the second, Activision's lawyers can go shove an assault rifle up their asses.

Re:What next?

[PIBM]

It depends how badly they reused the meshes. I don`t have either game, nor the tools handy, but it could be easy to validate the mesh coordinates. If the number of vertex using the same (1e-4 difference) coordinate exceeds 5-10% and I`d have a hard time believing it was done manually and not copied. From the screenshots, I'd guess that it could be much higher than this.

Re:What next?

[Anonymous Coward]

No, the person filing the dmca only has to be believe they are doing the right thing and be authorized to do so. i.e. They can lie. That whole thing about reparation for fraudulent takedowns got conveniently lobbied out.

Re:What next?

[Anonymous Coward]

"Takedown was legitimate. No sympathy."

Seriously? The mere allegation that a single art asset in a game looks similar to an art asset in another game means the alleged offending game should be taken down without giving the alleged offender any warning or opportunity to respond and with no impartial review whatsoever?

Such a draconian, "zero tolerance" policy is simply unreasonable.

Re:What next?

[SuricouRaven]

Unless you go down the complete sci-fi/fantasy route, all guns are going to bear some similarity based on their expected function. They all have a handle, a trigger, a barrel, a hole at the business end, and some sort of aiming aid on top.

Re:What next?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's the USA, you can always sue for fictitious damages regardless of intentions.

Re:What next?

[TheDarkMaster]

I fail to understand why someone can claim copyright on loose details where both models are obviously based on a real-life weapon. This is idiocy.

Re:What next?

[Anonymous Coward]

Is this sarcasm? What next, a DMCA from Armalite for copying an AR-15? Commonly used gun parts, a mix in various locations and subtly, but unmistakably different is somehow infringing?

Re:What next?

[Anonymous Coward]

YOUANAL

that we can establish

Re:What next?

[Anonymous Coward]

Can TREK Industries sue for damages consisting of lost summer sales claiming tortious interference, or are these kinds of legal proceedings protected from that kind of claim?

Re:What next?

[orgelspieler]

I don't know. All of those could be clean-room remodels. I don't see anything 100% conclusive.

Re: What next?

[Anonymous Coward]

I will give you a hint as to why. It is usually preceded by the $ sign.

Re:What next?

[Anonymous Coward]

You know, I own quite a few firearms and honestly they both kind of look like a hodge podge of a bunch of different parts of weapons I own. And I mean, seriously, your image, what does it say? Look they both have scopes! Because the two scopes don't look identical to me yet your image highlights them. The two stocks don't look similar either, yet again being highlighted. Honestly I'm curious as to why you have both of them rotated differently, why not rotate them identically so it's easier to compare?

But at any rate if this tells me anything Magpul should probably sue Activision for stealing design queues from their product lines.

Re:What next?

[butchersong]

I've never felt that should be defense for people running DMCA scripts/bots on say youtube for example. Seems to me you should have to manually submit a takedown request. Otherwise, if you just have a script, you know you're going to be issuing a lot of false takedowns.

Re:What next?

[Tharkkun]

This gif is good switching between the Orion and CoD model:

http://i.imgur.com/pVDLi5L.gif

I was ready to come down on their side, but after seeing the screenshots it clear they stole the asset, now they're lying and trying to play the victims.

Takedown was legitimate. No sympathy.

Not really. That screenshot shows that the 4 portions are not similar at all. If they did copy it, each component was clearly changed.

Re:What next?

[HornWumpus]

It won't be that obvious in any case. When 'sampling' another 3d asset you are always going to have to morph the meshs, to bring the parts together at the edges. But a lazy thief will reuse bitmaps fragments, just color swapping etc.

The real problem is that the COD models are really silly game model weapons. One has the distance between butt and trigger at about 15% of the weapon length, you'd fall over forwards. The Orion model is the best shown.

Re:What next?

[Onuma]

Does "junk status" refer to its extremely low price, or is it an opinion of the quality of the games themselves?
If their junk status is regarding the price, that's just Trek's way of getting as many eyes on their projects as possible; they'd rather have 10000 copies sell at $1, than 1000 copies at $10, which I can understand. Their tactics have been successful in this respect -- about 2M copies of Prelude have sold, and over 150K copies of "Guardians of Orion" AKA "The Orion Project" (I can't tell which name they want to use...I'll just call it Guardians for brevity) have sold. Caveat: there has been at least 1 Steam Free Weekend for Prelude, and Guardians is only several months into Early Access, so we can assume it will get more front-page attention w/ sales upon release.
If junk status is about the quality of the game, then I suppose YMMV. Blasting hordes of dinosaurs, monsters, and robots with all sorts of weaponry is not for everyone,

IMO, these games are actually pretty decent for their niche. "Prelude" was very rough when it first released a few years back, but the devs stuck by their work and made continuous improvements for 2 solid years. It is a now competent game with multiple modes of play. Guardians is in early Alpha, and is pretty well playable at this point. It lacks many of the features of Prelude, but you can clearly see from where Trek has derived its sequel, and where they intend to take it. Mainly, the new game replaces the aged Unreal 3 engine with Unreal 4, which ought to give it potential for another 5-10 years.

If you like shooters, especially those team-based PvE, the Orion games are well worth a buck. Hell, it's probably worth purchasing a few copies to give to your buddies, so they don't have an excuse not to try it out. Even in the worst case, you're out what...$5?

Re:What next?

[Onuma]

I dug a little deeper, into the dregs of reddit, and found some pretty compelling evidence that Trek is most likely stealing assets, chopping them up and reconfiguring them so as to mask their efforts, reskinning them (maybe), and then releasing them as their own "new" content. There are numerous side-by-side images of how in-game models have been taken from other games and incorporated into Guardians.

It's piss poor; how difficult is it to take a modern, real-world battle rifle (for example) and turn it into a futuristic looking battle rifle? Add some extra parts, change the sights, maybe put some glowing bits and a fancy muzzle adapter...and voila, brand new gun which has never been seen anywhere, ever before!

Pretty fucking scummy. Orion games are still fun, but I'm not going to willingly support stealing intellectual property.

Re:What next?

[Anonymous Coward]

The problem with that is that a lot of the "loose details" both models have are missing in the real-life weapon and are nearly identical. There are too many details in the vertex geometry (crude surface structure) of the weapons the activision artists made up that also show up in the Orion models.

Re:What next?

[Coren22]

Of course you can, it was right there in the post.

Re:What next?

[Coren22]

Take a look at the comparison photos in the Steam link, the shotgun looks like almost exactly the same model, the rifle looks very different though, so I am not sure why they think that one is stolen.

Re:What next?

[Coren22]

and with no impartial review whatsoever

This is not allowed. Steam isn't allowed to make a judgement call. The rest of your post is accurate though.

Re:What next?

[Anonymous Coward]

"I fail to understand why someone can claim copyright on loose details where both models are obviously based on a real-life weapon. This is idiocy."

The M8A7 is not a real weapon, it was made up for Black Ops, and is a fictional weapon that starts production in 2055.

Re:What next?

[Anonymous Coward]

You can prove it's abuse and not "Geez I really believed I was doing the right thing by decimating my competition" ?

Re:What next?

[Onuma]

The shotgun's pieces are very clearly an amalgamation of other weapon parts. Magazine, grip, fore-end, sight, upper rail, etc. have all been blatantly taken from a variety of weapons and pieced together as something new. I can't see all of the details of other assets from work, but that one is a pretty easy sell.

Even in the best case scenario (for them), Trek's integrity will be in question from here on out.

If the asset theft is relegated to only 1 in-game model, then the whole thing could be chalked up to a single employee making a very poor decision on behalf of the company (something like this would probably be explicitly prohibited in one's employment contract). They'd get to the source, correct the wrongdoing, and apologize to Activision and their customers, hopefully regaining consumer confidence in the long term.

If the case is severe, then they can't be trusted at all and are undeserving of further consumer interest and money. They'll reap what they have sown.

"Artistic similarity"?

[K. S. Kyosuke]

Am I having hallucinations or do those weapons look nothing alike besides all four looking like military-ish rifles?

Re:"Artistic similarity"?

[Gilgaron]

Yeah I was confused... a drum magazine versus a bullpup... different textures... maybe a computer artist can chime in with how one could look stolen from the other?

Re:"Artistic similarity"?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah I was confused... a drum magazine versus a bullpup... different textures... maybe a computer artist can chime in with how one could look stolen from the other?

The things they shared on the post are not the same that were reported, I was reading on reddit about this and there is a pretty good comparison of various assets as well as some history of the company, their shady business and other things they have done.

http://i.imgur.com/ZQeBNGs.png
https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/4q6xo5/activisions_dmca_claim_on_orion_is_legit_orions/

Re:"Artistic similarity"?

[Anonymous Coward]

Nothing alike, right.

Re:"Artistic similarity"?

[Freedom Bug]

The top rail and sight assembly are identical, too identical to be a coincidence.

But that's because they both copied from the M14.

Re:"Artistic similarity"?

[Anonymous Coward]

Nope, nothing alike.

http://i.imgur.com/IjS7dfO.png
http://i.imgur.com/8Qx1NI2.png

I think it's time we just burnt everything and try again.

Re:"Artistic similarity"?

[SharpFang]

You're not hallucinating. The dev paired mismatched weapons on purpose.

http://i.imgur.com/ZQeBNGs.png
http://i.imgur.com/WCL4fCQ.png

The guy copied sections of the model vertex for vertex.

Re: "Artistic similarity"?

[Z00L00K]

Or 3D-scanned a gun of the same type.

Re:"Artistic similarity"?

[mindwhip]

Ignore the textures which are mostly from the Unreal Engine base assets on the Orion guns.
The Orion guns are made up of the same base components as the Activation guns but mixed/matched and are vertex for vertex copies. For instance Barrel from A and stock and sight from B. There are plenty of better comparisons with screenshot examples on the Steam blog/article's comments.

Re:"Artistic similarity"?

[Anonymous Coward]

Visually same broad shape doesn't imply vertex for vertex copy.

Re:"Artistic similarity"?

[Khyber]

"The guy copied sections of the model vertex for vertex."

Nope. Try actually being a game dev and having the tools to check for yourself.

Mesh is almost identical except there's no identical scaling match done, which means it was made by hand.

Activision's textures were ripped from other games. I can see at least two ROTT textures and at least two rip-off mods of the id Doom UAC logo, one of them being directly on the gun itself (Actually, it's closer to the Quake I door in design.)

Re:"Artistic similarity"?

[Anonymous Coward]

When Activision rips off real-world guns for their games it's "innovative".
When anyone else does it it's "copyright infringement".

Re:"Artistic similarity"?

[Khyber]

Ding! This shit isn't fucking new at ALL.

Prior art exists EVERYWHERE.

Including a certain 2011 porno movie called Horizon.

Re:"Artistic similarity"?

[im_thatoneguy]

http://imgur.com/a/O5Fj4

It's a direct lift. Probably "vertex for vertex". Definitely a copyright violation.

Re:"Artistic similarity"?

[Dunbal]

Well, they all have triggers, stocks and barrels. Obviously they're a direct rip.

Re:"Artistic similarity"?

[TheCarp]

> But that's because they both copied from the M14.

I want to believe. This was my first thought too, but, in order to verify that, one more step is needed, find the real rail that looks like....I am not.

What strikes me is the little flourishes. Look at the front of the rail by the sight, it has a stamp in the metal that looks like some sort of mechanical reinforcement, or decoration. They are nearly identical, yet, in all the images of M14s and their rails/sights I just don't see some of these details.

It really looks like the game model was used as the reference, rather than a real gun.

Re:"Artistic similarity"?

[msauve]

"they both copied from the M14."

You've obviously never even seen an M14.

Re: "Artistic similarity"?

[Anonymous Coward]

If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.

Boss: I don't like that wall, remove it.
Construction Workers: But...
Boss: Not my problem.

Boss: I don't like where the stairs are. Move them to the other side of the house. But don't change the layout of any of the rooms, I like them just the way they are.
Construction Workers: But...
Boss: Not my problem.

Boss: I'd like a wood-burning fireplace in the middle of the room, but no exhaust vents. Yes it must be wood-burning, I don't want one of those phony electric fireplaces.
Construction Workers: But...
Boss: Not my problem.

Re:"Artistic similarity"?

[Anonymous Coward]

I tried to read that thread and look at the pictures but all I could make out was the gurgling of some basement dweller frothing at the mouth that the same gun, modeled after a real gun, looks similar in both games.

Re:"Artistic similarity"?

[bfpierce]

Are...Are you actually bringing out the 'be an actual game dev' and in the same sentence trying to say you can't fudge scaling?

Did that just happen?

Re:"Artistic similarity"?

[Anonymous Coward]

Give me a break. You didn't click the link. You probably can't even read. And you're the same person who posted "I think we can safely say that all AC upmodded comments in this thread are Activision shills"

The crazy thing is that you believe anyone thinks that could be remotely true.

Re:"Artistic similarity"?

[Anonymous Coward]

Thats one crazy looking M14: http://imgur.com/a/O5Fj4

Did you even bother to research before posting or did you just take the image in TFA as the gospel truth? They used two completely different guns to be intentionally misleading. The devs have a history of shady tactics anyway and from the vast quantity of comparisons floating around the net Activision's next move will be to litigate. DCMA abuse, this is not.

Re:"Artistic similarity"?

[HornWumpus]

M14? No.

I saw something very similar on an 'MP-5' civilian semi and also on a AR-15 'pistol'. Both owned by the same dude, who liked to shoot at targets 15 feet away with his scoped 223 pistol, using the scope...I digress.

Re:"Artistic similarity"?

[Anonymous Coward]

Did you try checking him on his words? Everything to prove or disprove his words is given to you in the words themselves - you can check the work in the appropriate part of the tool chain.

If you have not checked the models yourself with the toolchains the games use, then why are you asking this question?

A real game dev is likely smarter than you, who appears to be a non game-dev.

Re:"Artistic similarity"?

[Anonymous Coward]

And you're the same person who posted "I think we can safely say that all AC upmodded comments in this thread are Activision shills"

Gr8apes posted and then GP as AC?

You probably can't even read.

lol

This isn't the first time they have been accused

[Anonymous Coward]

This studio and the games they produce has gone through numerous iterations in order to escape previous accusations of plagiarism, bad management, not paying employees. This doesn't surprise me at all.

Instead of looking at activation as the big bad, maybe people should look at the history of the studio.

"QUOTE" By Warskull from reddit

[Anonymous Coward]

(Since this may influence your view on this)

"Are we sure this is abuse? The dev behind Orion has a sordid history and a history of lying. I wouldn't put it past him to steal assets.

Remember this is the guy who change his game's name three times to dodge badge metacritic scores. After getting $20K from kickstarter, he failed to pay his developers and then fired them all.

He also has a history of stealing assets. He got caught stealing the armory model from NS2 (has since took down the videos and removed it), stole a T-Rex from Primal Carnage (and tweaked it a bit), and it was suspected weapon sounds were stolen from Counter-strike.

This looks to be a legit use of the DMCA."

Re:"QUOTE" By Warskull from reddit

[Anonymous Coward]

You know you look ridiculous announcing your emotional problems, then attacking Reddit over what a small-subset of users did, on a site as far gone as Slashdot is.

manishs, can you please try to edit properly?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hi, manishs! I know you're relatively new here, but can you please try to put some care into editing the submissions you post?

The title for this one is obviously fucked up: "Activision Abuses DMCA To Take Knock Indie Game Entirely Off Steam".

That should be either "to take" or "to knock", but not "to take knock".

We don't have high expectations for the editing here, of course, but mistakes like this are bad even by the very low standards we hold Slashdot to.

Please, try to be just slightly better than Timothy and the other former editors were. Please!

Re:manishs, can you please try to edit properly?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hi!

Slashdot Administration here. Your suggestion has been considered, and rejected. Thank you for your time!

Re:manishs, can you please try to edit properly?

[jbmartin6]

Maybe it was meant to say "take knock off indie game"

Re:manishs, can you please try to edit properly?

[Pseudonymous Powers]

Maybe it was meant to say "take knock off indie game"

I wondered whether the game was called "Knock" or something, or if the gameplay somehow involved knocking on a door (possibly after lighting a bag of poop on fire), but your idea makes more sense.

Though calling the game a "knock-off" would seem to undercut the premise of the article, which is that the DMCA is being invoked when it shouldn't. Still, I've heard many times that you can't copyright the mechanics of a game, so maybe it doesn't matter if it's a "knock-off" anyway.

Re:manishs, can you please try to edit properly?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hi!

Slashdot Administration here again. Disregard my previous post, I suck cocks!!!

Re:manishs, can you please try to edit properly?

[jbmartin6]

Your idea sounds like more fun though

Re:manishs, can you please try to edit properly?

[Tharkkun]

Maybe it was meant to say "take knock off indie game"

Please do the needful.

Taken from reddit comments

[Anonymous Coward]

Are we sure this is abuse? The dev behind Orion has a sordid history and a history of lying. I wouldn't put it past him to steal assets.
Remember this is the guy who change his game's name three times to dodge badge metacritic scores. After getting $20K from kickstarter, he failed to pay his developers and then fired them all.
He also has a history of stealing assets. He got caught stealing the armory model from NS2 (has since took down the videos and removed it), stole a T-Rex from Primal Carnage (and tweaked it a bit), and it was suspected weapon sounds were stolen from Counter-strike.

Take a look at this:
http://i.imgur.com/ZQeBNGs.png
Direct copy of CoD assets, like it or not.

Re:Taken from reddit comments

[gman003]

Agreed. I saw this news elsewhere, and it's pretty clear that the assets are, bare minimum, "traced" from other games. I'd need to see a more technical analysis to know if they were directly ripped from another game (and then modified just enough to not be copy/paste), but that seems more probable than not.

Re:Taken from reddit comments

[Khyber]

"The dev behind Orion has a sordid history and a history of lying"

No, he has a sordid history of parodying EVERYTHING and usually FAILING.

"Take a look at this:
http://i.imgur.com/ZQeBNGs.png
Direct copy of CoD assets, like it or not."

Activision doesn't own the design of that top rail. In fact, it's just a knockoff of the top rail on an AR-15/M-16. The CLOSEST thing you might get is on textures, but even then, some of those are easily shown to be ripped from far earlier games (texture on the barrel shroud in CoD comes out of ROTT, which came out several years earlier.)

Activision doesn't own the design to the bullpup stock, either. The specific design they're pointing out THEY RIPPED FROM RUSSIANS which used it in earlier SV versions of various sniper and infantry rifles (that shitty square back gas block.)

Activision also ripped assets from various other industries thinking we wouldn't notice. Activision's top-rail was already seen in a 2011 porno sci-fi movie called Horizon.

You post anonymously because you don't have the facts and are shilling for Activision when they've got no case. If they had a case, they wouldn't have used the DMCA, they'd have sued instead as prior legal precedent shows.

Re:Taken from reddit comments

[Mashiki]

Take a look at this:
http://i.imgur.com/ZQeBNGs.png
Direct copy of CoD assets, like it or not.

That doesn't actually prove anything. After all, this is exactly the same as the one found in the game. But the models were redone by hand. You can even prove that by looking at the very basic information in nifskope. The only thing that image actually proves? It looks exactly the same, nothing more.

Until the assets from both games are pulled and compared using 3DS, nifskope, maya and so on, this actually boils down to a whole lot of "he said/they said/etc." Even that thread on PCMR doesn't prove shit except they "look the same" and basing anything off that is fully useless. Since a modeller can make it look the same and have vastly different methods to create the same effect.

Re:Taken from reddit comments

[Anonymous Coward]

Skyrim (or any mods) in general are a terrible example to use. A lot of modders rip 3D models from other games and use them for the mods. And usually label them as game rips explicitly.

And looking at nifscope information is not very useful, considering the general process is:

1) Rip the model from the other game
2) Imported into Blender/3DMax/whatever modeler
3) Rigged with Skyrim skeletons so the physics work
4) Exported as a .nif file

Not to mention that it's very different when game modders use these resources for non-profit and fun, compared to a commercial venture.

Re:Taken from reddit comments

[msauve]

" it's just a knockoff of the top rail on an AR-15/M-16"

You're being much, much, too blatant in the things you're making up. Anyone who can use Google can tell your claim is made of whole cloth.

Re:Taken from reddit comments

[msauve]

You apparently believe that if someone were to copy something by hand, it's not copyright infringement. You're wrong.

Re:Taken from reddit comments

[Anonymous Coward]

If one game makes a model of Mount Rushmore, then no other game can use Mount Rushmore in their game? WTH are you smoking?

Lots of game weapons take design elements from REAL weapons. Does that mean the makers of those REAL weapons should sue Activision for copyright infringement on their design elements?

Re:Taken from reddit comments

[Anonymous Coward]

Lots of game weapons take design elements from REAL weapons. Does that mean the makers of those REAL weapons should sue Activision for copyright infringement on their design elements?

Only if they use the same names. Very important. This is the reason you get names like BMG50 instead of Browning 50, Beretti instead of Beretta in video games. Licensing is very expensive and gun manufacturers take it seriously. Identical likeness has been proven in court to not be copyright infringement.

Re:Taken from reddit comments

[Anonymous Coward]

So what? It's completely different game play and different storyline, it's fair use. Just like in the real world we can pick up a gun from World War II doesn't mean we copied the entire scenario.

Re:Taken from reddit comments

[Anonymous Coward]

What about the representation of those guns, maybe they are religious and it's ok to use their weapon in war games but not in dinosaur games? What makes you think the legal system is the right way to solve this issue? DMCA is a part of the same flawed legal system. Obviously the market has spoken by making it a popular game.

Re:Taken from reddit comments

[Mashiki]

You apparently believe that if someone were to copy something by hand, it's not copyright infringement. You're wrong.

If I sit down a draft a F1 race car by what I see, it's not copy infringement anymore then a person copying a weapon mesh by hand and drawing it out in their own copy of 3DS or Maya.

Re:Taken from reddit comments

[msauve]

You're still wrong.

Re:Taken from reddit comments

[Mashiki]

You're still wrong.

No, I'm actually not. You just happen to be ignorant on actual copyright laws.

Re:Taken from reddit comments

[thegarbz]

Of course they can. Now if the rest is a perfect duplicate in every way including the finest details of the textures and the grass then it would be copyright infringement.

The fact that we see so many games using real weapons but none of them have come up with such clear obvious duplicates is pretty damn incriminating, as are the fact that none of the guns look alike but for some reason the sights themselves are 100% identical. So why apply artistic license to one and not the other? Oh that's right, hiding copyright infringement requires effort.

Re:Taken from reddit comments

[Anonymous Coward]

You've never seen aftermarket parts in your life, have you?

Re:Taken from reddit comments

[Anonymous Coward]

If I sit down a draft a F1 race car by what I see, it's not copy infringement

Actually you are wrong. If you copy a F1 race care 1:1 you have to license it from the designer of the car. Copy right does not care if you copy the cad file using windows explorer or use a magnetized needel to create a copy on your harddrive.

Re:Taken from reddit comments

[Anonymous Coward]

Fun fact:

If you sit down and actually draw a copy of an F1 race car, then it's your expression. If you take a photograph of said car, even though it's now in a different medium, you are violating the copyright of those that designed the car.

The difference is the degree of "personal expression" that you bring to your copy. Your added "creative" (usually defined as decorative) elements must outweigh the right of the object's owner/designer to control how their object is portrayed.

On that basis, this guy's use of other's meshes is in a legal gray area. But I wouldn't assume that a court would actually find him to be infringing. After all, he did mix, match, and modify the details of those guns. Which itself is a creative act.

As an ex-game artist myself, I only see one example of this "theft" (the whole-cloth top-rail) that might be a problem, and that depends on how similar it is to real-life top-rails (for which both companies could be sued by the rail's designer).

The PCMR subreddit summarizes the allegations

[Anonymous Coward]

https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/4q6xo5/activisions_dmca_claim_on_orion_is_legit_orions

Re:The PCMR subreddit summarizes the allegations

[Khyber]

Reddit is a shit source for anything that requires verification. Boston Marathon, anyone?

Debunked

[Anonymous Coward]

For what it's worth there was a pretty firm debunking on Reddit yesterday. They did a good job of pointing out all the "copies" that Orion did. Looks like Activision was more than in the right for the takedown as they saw fit to do so. I hate the DCMA for many reasons but here seems to be within the correct scope of the law. *wink*

The similiarities are unreal

[JustAnotherOldGuy]

"Hey, your game has a black gun that can shoot the bad guys, and our game has a black gun that can shoot the bad guys, so CLEARLY you are INFRINGING on our game!!!!"

Activision didn't abuse anything

[Anonymous Coward]

This content was STOLEN from activision by these dodgy crooks and polygon used the worst pics.
Here are some better ones.

https://np.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/4q62te/we_need_help_getting_the_word_out_activision/d4qnlgy?context=3

Re:Activision didn't abuse anything

[Anonymous Coward]

Not the first time this studio was accused of asset theft.

I know its imgur but it is all I could find in short notice.

https://imgur.com/Nl1m8

Re:Activision didn't abuse anything

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah those devs are really crooked fuckers. I hope Activions tears them a new one.

Re:Activision didn't abuse anything

[Anonymous Coward]

Admittedly, "the Wanderer" almost certainly isn't a copyright violation, as the image is from the USAF, thus it should be public domain.

Re:Activision didn't abuse anything

[Anonymous Coward]

Polygon deliberately misrepresenting something!
Tell me it isn't so....

Re:Activision didn't abuse anything

[Anonymous Coward]

So what? They are icons, the original purpose of the picture was to display art. The game's purpose for the image is to supplement a notification. This is very obviously fair use.

Reddit Detectives

[Anonymous Coward]

The PCMR subreddit seems pretty sure the DMCA claim was legit. The similarities shown in the thread are striking, to say the least.
https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/4q6xo5/activisions_dmca_claim_on_orion_is_legit_orions/

Activision are right

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry but Activision are right on this, do alittle research, goto the steam forums and look at the comparisions that people have put up
If after that you still think that activision are in the wrong, then.... wow, the guys that created orion need to be jailed for this

Re:Activision are right

[Khyber]

You think Activision is right but you're only looking at TWO sources, AND ignoring the fact that the DMCA filed was totally invalid as it didn't have required information.

Look at a bunch of other sources, you soon see that Activision is the one doing the ripping off of assets. One model I can identify as a modified Unreal CAR (Right down to primary mesh vertices) and several textures were either ripper or 'enhanced' (I see several Rise of the Triad textures) and several gun pieces look to be ripped directly from a sci-fi porno called Horizon, done by Wicked Pictures in 2011, WELL BEFORE the 2015 CoD.

Activision filed the DMCA instead of suing because they KNEW THEY WOULD NOT WIN IF THIS HIT COURT.

Activision is wrong.

Re:Activision are right

[msauve]

"the DMCA filed was totally invalid as it didn't have required information."

Why don't you provide a link to the notice, then explain what the hell you're talking about? From the Steam thread, the takedown notice included this:

the game Orion uses weapon art content from Call of Duty: Black Ops 3 and Call of Duty: Advanced Warfare. The weapon art in question includes the M8A7 rifle, the Haymaker rifle, and the Bal-27 rifle.

That's 99% of what's needed - to identify the infringing work, and the work which is being infringed. That was done. The rest is boilerplate - contact info, signature, etc. What are you claiming is missing?

Re:Activision are right

[Ogive17]

I'm starting to think you're also the submitter or you're the developer of this game. You seem to be the only one still on the "Activision are evil" bandwagon once new evidence came out.

This isn't about Activision and if they steal assets from other companies, it is if the game Orion stole assets from Activision, which is appears by evidence to be true.

My Favorite Activision game was Megamania

[tarlek1234]

Everything else sucked after that...

Activision backed down...

[Khyber]

Their DMCA wasn't even valid and I could find several things they ripped off in a 2011 sci-fi porno movie called Horizon (your sloped top rail on a gun ain't new, Activision.) As soon as I pointed that out, that DMCA mysteriously vanished and Orion was back on the Steam Sale.

Looks like Activision doesn't want the fact that their game devs are stealing assets from non-game industries, specifically the porno industry, getting out.

The C in DMCA is for copyright

[Anonymous Coward]

How would the DMCA not cover something that falls under copyright?

And so what if it falls under trade dress? That's something I don't get about Chinese knockoffs: Why don't they come up with their own logo. Compared to actually making something, designing a makeshift logo is easy. Instead we get these hilariously stupid misspellings of famous brand names, and their products still get confiscated in customs.

Is there any good reason for making your weapons look remotely like the weapons in a competitor's game? You have the skills to write a game and create so much original art, but you jeopardize it all by making weapon models that aren't completely distinct? (IMHO the weapons do look different enough, but there are some similarities that are just ... unnecessary.)

DMCA

[msauve]

"...something that the DMCA does not cover (and which more would likely fall under copyright..."

Copyright is exactly what the DMCA covers. It is, after all, the Digital Millennium Copyright Act. The submitter seems very biased. There are comparison pictures on reddit (and now here) which clearly show infringing content.

Re:DMCA

[Anubis IV]

Indeed. While some of the CoD assets were based on real-life items, they were also clearly created specifically for that game since they had various embellishments and details unique to that game (as one of the examples floating around suggests, in much the same way that AK-47s look different in different games)...which were meticulously reproduced in Orion's models, even if they covered them up with different textures.

Moreover, it sounds like Orion's developer has a history of copyright infringement. For instance, the reddit post that's blowing up links to a a set of examples of plagiaraized artwork used for achievement images in one of their other games (in fact, it may be the game they renamed and re-released, allegedly so that they could dodge the bad scores the game had on Metacritic and trick people into buying it again). And after the developer created an Indiegogo campaign with a goal of $500 to help cover their legal fees and whatnot for this DMCA takedown, the first "donation" was $500 from the developer themselves.

Everything about this dev just smells fishy, and while I typically can't stand Activision as a company (nor have I ever had a desire to play any of their CoD games, let alone actually done so), I'm having trouble finding fault with them here. It sounds like this dev is ripping off their 3D art assets and slapping some new textures on them to try and call them their own. And it seems clear that they know they're in the wrong, since when they tried to defend their models as being their own, they didn't do the obvious thing someone who was innocent would do by posting like-for-life, side-by-side shots of both their model and CoD's asset so that we could all see that theirs was unique. Instead, they posed Activision's and their guns at wildly different angles, seemingly with the intent of obscuring the similarities that would be glaringly obvious if they had provided useful side-by-shots shots...as the side-by-side shots posted by others have demonstrated.

That said, it does seem like there's some Activision shilling going on in the comments here too, what with all these ACs posting the same stuff over and over again. Not sure what to make of that, but regardless of any shilling, it doesn't change that at least from a layman's perspective, it looks like this dev lifted models from Activision, along with all of the embellishments and details that make them uniquely Activision's, and now they're being rightfully called out on it.

Re:DMCA

[Anonymous Coward]

Link to some pics just to help:
http://imgur.com/a/ua3Nc

http://i.imgur.com/ZQeBNGs.png

Seeing as the M8A7 doesn't have a real-life counterpart, most especially for the parts of the gun that were seemingly copied, I think Activision is well within their right to protect their IP. Can anyone link to a real-life picture of any of the parts claimed to be copied? I think prior-art is really the only thing that could save the devs of Orion here. Its pretty unquestionable that they copied or at least extremely closely imitated some of their assets from other games. The first link to the imgur gallery really shows as much. The copies are sometimes more accentuated in areas but they are like-for-like in terms of their overall design.

Re:DMCA

[msauve]

"what with all these ACs posting the same stuff over and over again. Not sure what to make of that,"

Could be as simple as people on Steam, or reddit, finding out about this discussion and not having accounts here. Regardless, if they're posting deliberately misleading info, they should be called out. If the info is accurate, what does it matter who posts it?

ORION dev deserves to be taken down

[Anonymous Coward]

They have done VERY morally questionable things, and I don't doubt the validity of this takedown. This is only karma coming back and biting them in the ass.

So send counter-notice. "C" in DMCA

[raymorris]

> the DMCA does not cover (and which more would likely fall under copyright

What does the author think the Digital Millenium COPYRIGHT Act covers, if not copyright?

If the DMCA notice is wrong, the respondent should simply send a counter-notice and the game will go back online. Then Activision can decide if they want to sue in federal court. Reddit commentors who have looked into the facts say Activision is right.

Re:So send counter-notice. "C" in DMCA

[Anonymous Coward]

What does the author think the Digital Millenium COPYRIGHT Act covers, if not copyright?

Well, in this case it is true. But lots of legislation has very deceptive names. The first one that springs to mind is the USA PATRIOT Act. It really has nothing to do with patriots or patriotism. Also the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, which in reality has not protected patients nor has it made care more affordable (lots of people have lost their coverage or had it significantly degraded, typically at higher cost, and folks who now have coverage find that their deductibles are so high so as to be not much better than being uninsured). So, yeah, I can see how going be a law's name might confuse some people.

"Take Knock"

[Anonymous Coward]

What the fuck does that even mean?

Re:"Take Knock"

[Anonymous Coward]

Did you check Urban Dictionary?

Re:This isn't the first time they have been accuse

[mindwhip]

TBH the Orion studio don't seem to value their game much...

Normal price: £0.79
Sale discount: 51%
Current price: £0.39

If a game is only worth 39p and has predominantly negative reviews this is noting more than attention grabbing in a vein hope for a few more sales before they totally abandon it.

Silent homage is not copyright infringement

[mark-t]

I firmly believe in the merits of respecting copyright law, personally... but something is fundamentally broken when this kind of shit can happen.

Re:Silent homage is not copyright infringement

[Anonymous Coward]

you don't pay "homage" to a gun model in a video game, especially not one from a contemporary title. you steal its pixels for your own use.

the "homage-ee" needs to be legendary and worthy of the act. activision and its products are neither and none. you want to pay homage to a video game weapon? try something on the scale of epicness as gordon freeman's crowbar.. now, that is something that is both legendary and worthy.

provided the source textures are themselves original content, the crooks with the 'worst game ever' (under multiple names) do not stand a chance. not here, not there, not anywhere.

it made me physically ill to defend the actions of activision. but there, i did it. they perhaps should have used the court system to obtain an injunction instead of what they did, but it will end up that way anyway. the take down will get appealed, steam will put it back up, then the dance in the legal courtroom will commence.

Re:Silent homage is not copyright infringement

[mark-t]

As I read it, the gun was "artistically similar", not a copy. That would be enough to be an homage.

Re:Silent homage is not copyright infringement

[Anonymous Coward]

The problem is you've just read the summary and believed it. Look at the links and read through the redit and steam threads. They clearly stole the model and have a long history of stealing other 3D models and 2D artwork from other games.

This isn't a homage.

Re:Silent homage is not copyright infringement

[Anonymous Coward]

You've repeated yourself and modded yourself up MANY TIMES. Screaming something over and over doesn't make it true.

Re:Silent homage is not copyright infringement

[Anonymous Coward]

You are either blind or a shill:

http://i.imgur.com/ZQeBNGs.png
http://imgur.com/a/ua3Nc

You can sidestep the argument all you want but the facts speak for themselves.

Re:Silent homage is not copyright infringement

[mark-t]

I can't say I know a lot about guns, but in my opinion the two guns only look similar.. There appear to be many stylistic differences in the shape of the guns that would probably not have occurred if one were truly a copy of the other. In fact, the only distinctive similarity is in that of the mounted sight, which you have to be specifically looking for to even notice it on account of the numerous differences in the rest of the gun, and even that similarity could just as easily as not be a consequence of the notion that both had a common inspiration from a particular real-life sight mounted on a light machine gun. At most, "inspired by" might be more accurate than the word "copy".

Re:Silent homage is not copyright infringement

[Anonymous Coward]

http://imgur.com/a/O5Fj4

Where is the line drawn between "homage" and direct-rip off thats been slightly painted/rearranged differently to maybe get away with it?

Re:Silent homage is not copyright infringement

[thegarbz]

From what I've seen on some of the pictures, the parts of the guns which are artistically similar but not identical are such because they were copied from a different model of the same game. There's not an original mesh in the entire gun, just a few of the colours on some of the textures have changed, but even some of those look like direct copy.

It appears about as much of an artistically similar work as grabbing the Mona Lisa and running it through a photocopier. Given how simple it would be to make differences and how incredibly hard it would be to make the guns parts look that much alike I'm going to err with Activision here. Of course it helps that the Orion developers are incredible douchebags who've been court doing this as well as many other shady things over and over again.

Re:Silent homage is not copyright infringement

[mark-t]

From what I've seen on some of the pictures, the parts of the guns which are artistically similar but not identical are such because they were copied from a different model of the same game. There's not an original mesh in the entire gun, just a few of the colours on some of the textures have changed, but even some of those look like direct copy.

You must be looking at a different comparison pic than I did....only the mounted sight on the two guns that I saw looked anything alike, and the shape of the guns themselves other than the mounted site was actually fairly different. The shape of the butt at the back of the two guns is totally different, the Black Ops gun has a second hand grip in front of the trigger grip to hold the gun steady while I would assume the Orin game has a character holding the gun steady by just the base of the barrel, or possibly even wielding it one-handed. The barrel shape is entirely different between the two guns, and generally speaking, the black ops gun looks more like it could be a real gun from the real world than the Orion gun does, the latter seeming to have a touch more of a sci-fi look to it.

I honestly would not ever conclude that one of these guns had copied the other... at most, the black ops gun might have inspired the orion gun, but that's not the same thing as copyright infringement.

Re:This isn't the first time they have been accuse

[Khyber]

The 'studio' (being like one dude, his girlfriend, and a couple of other randos) is known for parodying shit as well.

You do have the education to know what a parody is, yes?

The game is loaded with them. Hence, protected.

This is why Activision tried DMCA instead of court, as they would have lost HARD. Not to mention their own violations would've been EASILY made known. I've already pointed out to them how similar various weapons look to a sci-fi PORNO from 2011, and told them I'd be quite interested in letting Wicked Pictures know that their assets were being digitally converted and sold as originals.

Notice how quickly that DMCA dropped. Within the SAME DAY, if not OVERNIGHT at the latest.

Orion's back up for sale - Gee, I wonder fucking why?

GTFO Anonymous Activision Shill (Thanks Slashdot for a buggy interface that reveals IP addresses through a GreaseMonkey script! Shilling going on like a motherfucker in here!)

How about...

[Anonymous Coward]

... writing summaries that inform rather than promote an opinion and expecting the reader to copy the opinion without question?

Or, you know, keep on doing this and I know what crap to not read. But there's a bit of a dearth of non-crap on here these days.

Look nothing like it

[Anonymous Coward]

Well that's bullshit, you're saying a gun that looks nothing like any of the other guns you listed contains elements from 4 other guns and even those elements that are not identical.

Streisand

[jbmartin6]

I wonder how many sales they will get as a result of this free publicity?

Put your pitch forks away

[Anonymous Coward]

1. activision already backed down
2. they had a very legitimate claim and shouldnt have
      http://i.imgur.com/pVDLi5L.gif
      http://i.imgur.com/ZQeBNGs.png

This isnt a case of big bad company does bad things, it's little shitty company does lazy things and big company takes notice

this is not true at all

[YesIAmAScript]

It is clear that ORION makes its gun geometry by cutting up models from Activision games and rearranging them. They are stealing assets, as they have done with previous games.

Re:This isn't the first time they have been accuse

[Anonymous Coward]

Having played it a few weeks ago, it really isn't entertaining at all. It's as if they took all of the good parts from ORION: Prelude (which is actually a lot of fun to play!) and threw them in the trash, leaving just the remainder as their new product.

Re:doesn't affect me

[Anonymous Coward]

froaseroasefelish,

Thank you for your insightful concerns. We still don't care.

Love,

Steam

Functional in nature

[OrangeTide]

Models of military firearms are functional and nature and should not necessarily be covered by copyright.
At least that's what Trek Industries lawyers might want to start saying.

Where did those weapons designs come from?

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe Armalite, FN, HK, and every other firearms manufacturer should send a DMCA takedown notice to Activision.

Re:This isn't the first time they have been accuse

[Anonymous Coward]

Real AC shills use Tor, dumbfuck.

Re:This isn't the first time they have been accuse

[Fnord666]

Thanks Slashdot for a buggy interface that reveals IP addresses through a GreaseMonkey script...

Please share. It's not the /. devs will ever fix the issue.

Tortuous interference with commerce?

[HiThere]

This strikes me as a exact match with a defined category of criminal action: Tortious interference with commerce

I'm no lawyer, so I may have this a bit wrong, but to me it looks like an exact match.

Stop using Steam.

[Anonymous Coward]

Steam is for morons.