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Linux Mint 18 'Sarah' Released, Supports Generic GTK X-Apps (linuxmint.com)

Posted by EditorDavid on from the freshly-Mint-ed dept.

Slashdot reader Type44Q writes: The Linux Mint team announced the immediate availability of their latest release, Mint 18 "Sarah," in Cinnamon and MATE flavors. These follow on the heels of their respective beta versions, which have been out for nearly a month.
"Linux Mint 18 is a long-term support release which will be supported until 2021," the team announces on MATE's "new features" page, adding they've improved their update manager, included support for the Debian syntax of "apt", and are working on the "X-Apps" project to "produce generic applications for traditional GTK desktop environments...to replace applications which no longer integrate properly outside of a particular environment."

19 of 98 comments (clear)

  1. So they're fixing GNOME 3's fuck ups? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "produce generic applications for traditional GTK desktop environments...to replace applications which no longer integrate properly outside of a particular environment."

    Is that just a polite, politically-correct way of saying that they're fixing up all of the shit that the GNOME 3 and systemd crowd have broken over the past several years?

    1. Re:So they're fixing GNOME 3's fuck ups? by SurenEnfiajyan · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Exacly.

    2. Re:So they're fixing GNOME 3's fuck ups? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      "produce generic applications for traditional GTK desktop environments...to replace applications which no longer integrate properly outside of a particular environment."

      Is that just a polite, politically-correct way of saying that they're fixing up all of the shit that the GNOME 3 and systemd crowd have broken over the past several years?

      I came here to post the same thing. By "particular environment" they have to mean systemd. To depend so heavily on a particular "init system" when standards exist for a reason was a big mistake. Even if systemd were perfect the decision to be totally dependent on it is a mistake. Systemd is not perfect. The decreasing ability to avoid it is a problem. I've used Gentoo for a long time and happened to dodge this one - I just stayed with openrc. That doesn't make it less of a problem for others.

    3. Re:So they're fixing GNOME 3's fuck ups? by Blaskowicz · · Score: 5, Informative

      Here is the rationale for the GTK3 X-apps and a couple finished example of them.

      http://segfault.linuxmint.com/2016/02/the-first-two-x-apps-are-ready/

      It's about how Gnome 3 has crapified gedit, evince etc. and uses non-standard GUI elements - Gnome-specific parts of GTK3 - in client-side decorated windows.
      Another reason is to remove a few dependencies, and in particular remove some of the distro-level hackery where Mint had gedit locked at version 2.30, so you couldn't install gedit 3. More generally it's part of removing warts that have historically made Cinnamon difficult to run on other distros, or some Gnome 3 applications on Cinnamon or Mint.

      Earlier blog post on it
      http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=2985

    4. Re:So they're fixing GNOME 3's fuck ups? by thegarbz · · Score: 4, Informative

      Noting depends on systemd. Nothing depends on a specific init system.

      Software may depend on specific APIs that expose certain kernel features like cgroups, so if you're not happy with having systemd do that then either write your own interface or pay someone to write it for you.

  2. systemd by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    Since it was missing from the summary, the Mint 18 release is based on Ubuntu 16.04 and now includes systemd.

  3. Sarah Conner? by drew_92123 · · Score: 3, Funny

    Just don't install it on an array of Conner HDDs... ;-)

  4. Mint is almost awesome by future+assassin · · Score: 4, Interesting

    only issues I have is that for some reason once in a blue moon (every 3-4 months) some thing happens with either the system or FGLRX drivers and get a blank cursor on loading screen and x wont start. Have to totally purge remove FGLRX resintall xorg for it to work again. Install FGLRX once one and I'm good to got for an other 4 months.

    Also should add this isn't Mint per say but running AMD A10 5800 the new AMD and Rageon drivers are MUCH smoother when playing Xonotic. Basically just as good or better than on my works Win7 machine with better graphics and CPU.

    --
    by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
    1. Re:Mint is almost awesome by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      future assassin, on a dual boot machine make sure to shut down properly or else the DIRTY POWEROFF remains set, and the rendering will not initialize and only give you that accursed blank screen with cursor.

    2. Re:Mint is almost awesome by Blaskowicz · · Score: 2

      FYI the FGLRX is deprecated in Ubuntu 16.04 (or any distro of the same Xorg newness) and your A10 5800 will not be supported by the newer driver, so 'radeon' driver it is.

  5. Nice, but... by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 2

    I looked at this the other day and it's nice, but realized that I can get basically the same thing, even the Mate desktop layout - if I wanted (via Mate Tweak: Redmond, Enable Advanced Menu) - simply by using the official Ubuntu 16.04 "ubuntu-mate" flavor. Sure Mint offers some simplifications, but then I have to track two distros in my head, Ubuntu and Mint, and one is simpler than both -- especially if I want to put a server edition on one system and a desktop edition on another, and/or use Ubuntu at work... (we use RHEL too but I'm not a fan)

    While I'm still not enamored with systemd - not the idea, just the implementation, its seemingly black-hole like scope expansion, the dick developers, etc (and I guess some of that could be said of several Canonical decisions too) -- I... am... over... it... and just want a stable system on which I can get some work done. (I feel this way about trying to choose a distro too.) And want something I can use on both newer and older hardware - which excludes using Unity (barf) and GNOME 3.

    Just my $0.02.

    --
    It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    1. Re:Nice, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      That's what I do too. My problem with Mint is that they have no "mini.iso" network install disc. I use that a lot for diskless installs (all of my machines are diskless) from local cache which are automatically at the latest package version. The lack of that means Mint is no good to me and they seem to have no interest in supporting it.

      Like you said though, it doesn't matter. You can just use Ubuntu then install the flavor you want (MATE, Xubuntu, etc). There is even a Cinnamon flavor but frankly it sucks as bad or worse than GNOME3 and Unity when you have lots of monitors.

    2. Re:Nice, but... by AthanasiusKircher · · Score: 3, Insightful

      and just want a stable system on which I can get some work done. (I feel this way about trying to choose a distro too.) And want something I can use on both newer and older hardware

      Those are precisely the reasons that I switched my primary home desktop OS from Ubuntu to Mint several years ago. (This was actually before the Unity debacle, but I could have seen something like that coming given poor choices Ubuntu had made before.)

      I'm NOT trying to convert you. We all have our particular stories and needs. But Ubuntu for many years never actually satisfied the "just works" criterion I care most about -- they seemed too interested in showing off Wobbly Windows and other BS, while major functionality would often break on every upgrade. Particularly things like sound, video, codecs, etc. always seemed a pain to actually get working, and they were often unstable. (And I'm not kidding that EVERY new version broke things on my systems, and each time the breakage was different.)

      I just got tired of it. I abandoned Ubuntu and went back to Debian for a while, though that had its own issues. Distro-hopped for a while, but nothing ever seemed stable and user-friendly. Then I tried Mint, and every computer I've installed it on in the past 6 years or so has "just worked." (And as for older hardware, the XFCE edition has worked great for me.)

      I'm sure Ubuntu is probably more stable now, but I've seen no compelling reason to go back. Mint's interface is relatively stable and works. It's funny, but that's really all I give a crap about these days in an OS -- don't change stuff every year for no apparent reason, and make it work on standard hardware. And if possible give me a choice that runs as light as possible on system resources. I can get used to just about anything if it satisfies that criteria, but unfortunately most OSes don't.

    3. Re: Nice, but... by Mortimer82 · · Score: 2

      You're clearly uninformed regarding the nature of the telemetry in .NET Core or you are deliberately spreading misinformation. The runtime is not including telemetry at all. And while the compiler includes telemetry, it is highly specific and limited to essentially whether or not certain compiler flags are used. Basically, in this case Microsoft just wants to know based on real numbers which way developers use very particular aspects of the compiler. The only conceivable use they could have for this information is to know where best to invest their effort, which is IMO a good thing for users of . NET Core. They were completely upfront about this in their announcement of .NET Core 1.0, it was part of the announcement and had equal weighting to the features they were promoting. They explained in clear layman's terms exactly what they were doing and how you can turn it off if you're paranoid. It's okay for someone to have legitimate concerns, but in this case you look like an ignorant person who is making a big fuss of something they clearly haven't taken the time to understand properly.

    4. Re:Nice, but... by JustBoo · · Score: 2

      Therein lies the paradox of Mint users...they think they've actually abandoned Ubuntu.

      It's an unofficial flavour, mind you, one that's made all sorts of progress in its own right that they deserve plenty of credit for...it's a great distribution. It's also Ubuntu under the hood.[...]

      Did you know Debian is "under the hood" when it comes to Ubuntu? Yeah, Ubuntu is based on Debian. So all that you wrote also applies to Ubuntu as well. Just sayin'.

  6. Re: Emulation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Playonlinux is easier than just wine BTW. Wines a bit tricky for newbies

  7. Re:Long-term support until 2021? by SeaFox · · Score: 5, Informative

    "Long-term support" only means 5 years now?!

    Linux Mint's long-term support cycle is tied to that of Ubuntu's. Maybe you should be complaining upstream?

  8. Re:Emulation by Blaskowicz · · Score: 2

    I would try a Wine ppa.

    Holy grail for me would be to just run Windows 98 in a VM with a fully emulated GPU that has a Windows 98 driver (or XP, since that worked amazingly well with rather few exceptions in games. Or Win 7 32bit)
    But that doesn't really exist yet.
    Even when Wine works it's not always very practical to install the games or deal with cdrom images (which were useful on Windows to trick old games's CD check)

    Mint is just Ubuntu, for your purposes. What it gives you is a good 2D desktop (except for the Cinnamon one which is 3D accelerated), that eliminates a potential source of problems. You also get to use Ubuntu ppas.

  9. Re:What's the difference? by BlackPignouf · · Score: 2

    Mate is like Gnome before it began to suck, Cinnamon is a Gnome 3 that doesn't suck.