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Russian Leader Putin Signs Controversial 'Big Brother' Law (venturebeat.com)

An anonymous reader writes: Today Russian President Vladimir Putin signed the controversial "anti-terrorist" legislation adopted by the lower and upper houses of parliament in late June, despite the flurry of criticism from opposition-minded circles and the serious concerns expressed by Russian telecom and internet companies. As reported earlier by East-West Digital News, the new legislation -- which Edward Snowden has called "Russia's new Big-Brother law" -- is not only severe against those involved in "international terrorism," its financing or non-denunciation. Law-enforcement agencies will also be granted access to any user's messages without any judicial oversight. Several key provisions will directly affect the internet and telecom industry. In particular, telecom operators and internet resources will need to store the recordings of all phone calls and the content of all text messages for a period of six months. They will be required to cooperate with the Federal Security Service (FSB) to make their users' communications fully accessible to this organization.

36 of 166 comments (clear)

  1. Putin's political opponents are lucky by mikeabbott420 · · Score: 3, Funny

    if they have an argument with their spouse about any past conversation they can settle the argument by just calling up the kremlin and asking for a transcript

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    1. Re:Putin's political opponents are lucky by tinkerton · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well, according to the article if the russians do it it's controversial.

  2. In Soviet America by tripleevenfall · · Score: 3, Interesting

    "Law-enforcement agencies will also be granted access to any user's messages without any judicial oversight. Several key provisions will directly affect the internet and telecom industry. In particular, telecom operators and internet resources will need to store the recordings of all phone calls and the content of all text messages for a period of six months. They will be required to cooperate with the Federal Security Service (FSB) to make their users' communications fully accessible to this organization."

    We will marvel at this here in the US, but it's on the way here as well. It won't just be terrorism fears, it'll be cries from the other side of the aisle about political corruption and tax evasion and everything else.

    Unless we resist it, government will always be seeking more power, as will the half of the political spectrum that is always seeking ever-more government.

    1. Re:In Soviet America by clonehappy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      it's on the way here as well.

      It's already been here, you just haven't been paying attention.

      Who is being targeted by it only depends on what regime is currently in power.

    2. Re:In Soviet America by Jason+Levine · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Unless we resist it, government will always be seeking more power, as will the half of the political spectrum that is always seeking ever-more government.

      Both halves of the political spectrum (i.e. Republicans and Democrats) push for ever-more government. They might differ in some instances as to where this bigger government should be intruding, but they both support it. The days of the Republicans being proponents of small government are gone. (If that ever was the case, in the first place. At the very least, the GOP has been a steady supporter of increasing the military's size no matter what.)

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    3. Re:In Soviet America by tripleevenfall · · Score: 2

      it's on the way here as well.

      It's already been here, you just haven't been paying attention.

      Who is being targeted by it only depends on what regime is currently in power.

      It's already here that telecom operators are required to record and store all phone calls?

    4. Re:In Soviet America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Obama has simplified the matter and just has the NSA do it.

    5. Re:In Soviet America by HornWumpus · · Score: 2

      What? Truman was a democrat.

      Your mistake is not recognizing how old this is.

      FYI After WWII Truman agreed to formalize the informal system setup during the war under Roosevelt: The English and Australians spied on American citizens. The Americans and Australians spied on English citizens. The Americans and English spied on Australian citizens.

      I'll grant you Truman wasn't very liberal as democrats go. He was a product of the Kansas City corrupt democratic political machine, kind of like Obama is a product of the Chicago machine.

      --
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    6. Re:In Soviet America by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 5, Insightful

      there's only semantics diffs between russia and the US, or the UK and the US, when it comes to this very human-need to snoop on our fellow man and control, Control, CONTROL him.

      we used to make jokes about 'we dont do this, we are not russia' but we have become the stereotypical 'russians'. minor details vary, but the theme is 100% identical.

      a week ago, I was at a store that was giving away american flags for the 4th of july. I looked at them, thought to myself 'I have no pride in the US anymore, why would I want to boast about being american, these days? we are no better than anyone else, truth be told, and everything I was taught about the US, as a kid, were lies'.

      I walked past the table of flags and I have to tell you, it was not a pleasant thought to think what my country has become, over the last 20 years. I was never a flag-waver before, but the very thought of being proud of ourselves makes me feel quite conflicted. yes, there are some things we do well, but with so many lies and so much corruption, I just don't feel the same about my country anymore.

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    7. Re:In Soviet America by GLMDesigns · · Score: 2

      Which is why we need to curtail the power of government. Hmmm. A return to limited government anyone?

      Nah. That's only for whacky libertarians.

      You want to keep growing government? Vote for Hillary or Trump.

      You want to start to turn things around? Vote Third Party in 2016

      --
      If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
      Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
    8. Re:In Soviet America by Sax+Russell+5449D29A · · Score: 2

      Why ask the operators for cooperation when you can get that data yourself? Or ask the NSA for some help. Sometimes, when you're under investigation, it's also fun to spy the people investigating you

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      -SR
    9. Re:In Soviet America by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 2

      nice try, but the system won't allow 3rd parties.

      I wish you were right, but you are completely wrong, in a very real sense.

      you can try to patch a broken system, like win3 brought to win98 and then brought upwards still. at some point, you have to THROW THE WHOLE THING OUT and restart it.

      yes, I mean that. exactly what I mean. nothing less will give us the results we want.

      someone has to say this. I'll say it.

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      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
  3. NSA Envy ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Russians too often just copy what Americans do.

    1. Re:NSA Envy ? by bmo · · Score: 2

      While this is said tongue-in-cheek, the recent events of the last 15 years have given governments around the world the ability to say to their citizens that "The US does it too" as justification. Sometimes even with US technical aid.

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      BMO

    2. Re:NSA Envy ? by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 2

      Not in this area. Russians were doing this long before Americans seriously considered it. For example, that whole "we don't need a warrant for metadata" thing? Russia did it in 1995.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

  4. No Judicial Oversight by Jason+Levine · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Access to every communication with no judicial oversight? The question isn't "will this be abused" but "how quickly will this be abused?" Also: "Will we ever know that it has been abused or will the Russian government cover it up?"

    Bonus question: Will the Russian equivalent of Snowden flee his country with files detailing the abuses this law allows, publish the information drawing the ire of the Russian government, and flee to the US for sanctuary? Also, would the US grant him asylum or use him in a trade for Snowden?

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    1. Re:No Judicial Oversight by tnk1 · · Score: 2

      There doesn't have to be a Snowden. No one in Russia really believes that they aren't already somehow being watched at the level that the NSA is/was doing. They would likely shrug and start taking bets on how long Snowdenski would remain alive before someone slipped him some polonium.

    2. Re:No Judicial Oversight by Steve1952 · · Score: 2

      "Abuse" implies contrary to intent. Since the intent of the Russian law is clearly to suppress internal political dissent, I would argue either that no abuse can occur, or alternatively that abuse will occur within a few nanoseconds of implementation (limited by the speed of light).

    3. Re:No Judicial Oversight by Shakrai · · Score: 2

      Will the Russian equivalent of Snowden flee his country with files detailing the abuses this law allows, publish the information drawing the ire of the Russian government, and flee to the US for sanctuary? Also, would the US grant him asylum or use him in a trade for Snowden?

      Putin takes a slightly different approach to dealing with people who flee his grasp than Barack Obama does.

      It's interesting to read the comments here wherein people equate the actions of the United States to those of Russia; I highly doubt that Snowden is going to mysteriously ingest polonium-210. Hell, if we really wanted him that badly all that was required was some realpolitik: "President Putin, we'll quietly acquiesce to your fait accompli in Crimea, all you have to do is put Mr. Snowden on the next flight to JFK......"

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
  5. Wow by MitchDev · · Score: 2

    The terrorists won even in countries they didn't attack on 9/11

    Fascism by the government is on the rise worldwide....

    1. Re:Wow by Gavagai80 · · Score: 2

      They've been a lot more terrorist attacks in Russia, and for longer, than the USA. And they've been very useful getting the public to support authoritarianism.

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  6. Re:US ISPs already store text messages by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    Verizon does it for 90 days. The Russians do for 180 days. What's the difference?

    90.

  7. A simple exercise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Fact #1: The republicans and democrats have dominated US politics together over the past century. Neither has dominated alone; they have shared roughly equally in the domination of US politics.

    Fact #2: The US government of today dwarfs the US government of a century ago, in terms of both revenue (adjusted for population growth) and power over the people. In that time period, the US government has grown itself into the largest and most expensive world empire in human history, with a military presence in some 200 foreign countries. By any measure, the US government is the largest and most powerful government this world has ever seen.

    Now consider the common view of the republicans being the party of small government, and the democracts being the party of big government. If that were true, wouldn't we expect their political efforts to roughly cancel each other out, resulting in a US government roughly the same size as a century ago, measured in either revenue or power over the people?

    The problem is that it's not. In fact, it's not even comparable. The US government of today absolutely dwarfs the US government of a century ago. What can we possibly conclude from this except that neither the republicans nor democrats have been fighting for smaller government? If they had been, we wouldn't be sitting in the middle of the largest, most far-reaching, most expensive, and most powerful government in world history.

    1. Re:A simple exercise by Captain+Splendid · · Score: 2

      So what you're saying is the GOP sucks at its job then?

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    2. Re:A simple exercise by Shakrai · · Score: 2

      In that time period, the US government has grown itself into the largest and most expensive world empire in human history, with a military presence in some 200 foreign countries

      You know that metric is total bullshit right? Are there half a dozen unarmed US service-members there at the behest of the local government to help train local forces? That country is now considered to have a "US military presence." It's kind of like the way that MADD counts "alcohol related" accidents to inflate fears of drunk driving. Sober driver hits a drunk pedestrian? That's an "alcohol related" accident. Sober driver with drunk passenger gets rear ended by someone who was texting? That's another "alcohol related" accident.

      Remember, there are lies, damn lies, and statistics.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    3. Re: A simple exercise by Shakrai · · Score: 2

      What's your point? The United States is a maritime nation. We've always had a strong navy. Traditionally there were other strong navies, but navies are expensive, and nobody else wants to spend the money. Incidentally, we spend less of our GDP on defense than many other countries, and the USN keeps the global commons, e.g., the ocean, open for all.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
  8. Re:Link to law text by cbiltcliffe · · Score: 2

    Basically, it says:
    Link to Google Translate

    (Had to do the Google translate link because slashcode borked it if I tried to put Russian text in.)

    --
    "City hall" in German is "Rathaus" Kinda explains a few things......
  9. Re:Link to law text by cbiltcliffe · · Score: 4, Funny

    Phonetically writing the Russian sounds using /. compatible western characters, it comes out like this:

    Vse vashi bazy prinadlezhat nam

    And Google translate is apparently smart enough to still translate this properly, so I should have just done it this way in the first place. D'oh!

    --
    "City hall" in German is "Rathaus" Kinda explains a few things......
  10. Putin rebuilding the Soviet Union by smooth+wombat · · Score: 3, Insightful

    As we have seen by Russia's aggression against its neighbors (Georgia and Ukraine specifically), with Putin in charge they have sunk back to the old ways of repression and oppression. This law is only one of many designed to give absolute power to the one in charge, reminiscent of days past when the person in the Kremlin had the final say on anything.

    The Soviet Union is dead yet Putin is insistent on trying to resurrect it, attacking its neighbors, sending in little green men to capture land, disruption of those who have left the oppression of Russia or those trying to crawl out of the hole dug for them by sycophants of Russia.

    As we have seen in Crimea, where Putin has decreed the Tartars are not allowed to speak their own language or have schools which teach the Tartar language, where Tartars are beaten for speaking out against the indignities thrust upon them, where his oligarch minions have swooped in to steal at gunpoint the businesses people have built up, where the only news broadcast is what Putin says can be broadcast, everything possible to suppress people is being done all, ostensibly, to protect them.

    Yet how protected can they be if their own government treats them as vassals? When Putin orders the murder of those who point out the endemic corruption in his government (such as Boris Nemtsov), when his estimated net worth, based on those who directly worked for him and managed his accounts, to be in the billions of dollars despite his salary, when he denies the deaths of thousands of soldiers when they invaded Ukraine, when he denies his own troops who admit they have been captured during the aggression against Ukraine, even going so far as to make it a crime for the mothers to talk about their son's deaths, it is quite clear he cares not for the Russian people but only himself and his legacy.

    This law is nothing more than another step on Putin's march to returning to the past where neighbor spied on neighbor, where freedom of speech is only so much as he says is freedom of speech, where opposition newspapers, television and radio stations are routinely silenced to prevent the people from hearing anything other than state sponsored "news", where he and his oligarch buddies steal the country blind and live in lavish homes while the common man can barely afford a decent meal.

    Is it any wonder the world doesn't take Russia seriously and why Russia, to this day, has still not advanced to a first world status.

    --
    We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
    1. Re:Putin rebuilding the Soviet Union by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      So? From an American perspective it may seem onerous, but most Russians don't care. Russia is an extraordinarily hard country to govern, with multiple ethnicities, terrible geography, crappy ports, and hostile neighbors. On top of that, Russia has been the subject of the 3 largest invasions in human history. Even with that, they have no allies with which they can identify; they're white so they're not Asian, but the Europeans don't accept them as European either. There somewhere in the middle.

      The only times in Russian history where Russia has been strong was under a strongman leader. Peter the Great, Catherine, Stalin, Putin. Americans are happy to argue freedom and civil liberties when they're surrounded by countries they've crushed militarily, dominate economically, and are protected by two big oceans and the world's biggest Navy. Most Russians are willing to give up freedoms and security when their history is rife with people who surround them, hate them, and try to kill them.

    2. Re:Putin rebuilding the Soviet Union by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      To be fair the Georgian conflict was started by Georgians attacking a peace keeping mission. Russia then recognized the independence for South Ossetia and Abkhazia or however you spell it. It was all to get back at the west for Kosovo, as I understand it. Ukraine was more of an aggressive act, but again there's the question of how the ouster of whatshisname was done and the money coming in from the west to undermine him. Putin's been more reactive than aggressive so far. When he matches into Estonia or Finland unprovoked, then you can call that aggression.

      Note: I think Putin provoked the west into anti-russian positions by being an authoritarian.

    3. Re:Putin rebuilding the Soviet Union by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      To be fair the Georgian conflict was started by Georgians attacking a peace keeping mission. Russia then recognized the independence for South Ossetia and Abkhazia or however you spell it. It was all to get back at the west for Kosovo, as I understand it. Ukraine was more of an aggressive act, but again there's the question of how the ouster of whatshisname was done and the money coming in from the west to undermine him. Putin's been more reactive than aggressive so far. When he matches into Estonia or Finland unprovoked, then you can call that aggression.

      Note: I think Putin provoked the west into anti-russian positions by being an authoritarian.

      And the West provoked Russia into attacking both Ukraine and Georgia.

      Georgia was a Soviet satellite and when the USSR broke up the government was pro-Russian. In 2003 the Rose Revolution occured putting into power a pro-Western, anti Russian government, and the Rose Revolution was heavily influenced, encouraged, and funded by US foreign policy makers such as the US ambassador to Georgia and former Secretary of State James Baker, while the IMF cut off funding to the previous pro-Russian government to encourage a transfer of power. Shortly after the Rose Revolution, Georgia entered talks into joining NATO, an organization who's sole purpose was the military containment of the Soviet Union. The Russian entry into the South Ossetia War had nothing to do with South Ossetia, it was entirely aimed at spoilng any country in the Caucasus from joining NATO by showing them that the Americans would not honor their military obligations and come to their aid. And would you do different? Given what happened in the span of 5 years, where an allied government of your neighbor is replaced by a hostile government trying to join a military alliance of your primary competitor, if you were in Putin's shoes what would you do?

      Ukraine is practically the same story. Suddenly a bunch of pro-European protesters in just a few short months knock down a pro-Russian government, and Ukraine poses an existential threat to Russia. The border with Russia is a giant flat plain; they simply do not have the resources to defend that length of border and just the other side is Russia's primary manufacturing and economic centers. Given the Russian experience where allies can turn to mortal enemies in the span of just a few years (Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, Georgia, the Grand Armee invasion by Napoleon, the Crimean War), and suddenly your neighbor's government switches it's loyalty to your primary competitors, what would you do in Putin's position?

      I'm not justifying Russian actions, but they follow from an entirely logical place. Russia has suffered more than any nation in history at the hands of foreign invaders; they're a naturally paranoid people who can't afford to trust even signed treaties. The West's actions over the past decade has simply provoked them more and more and I don't think the Russians feel they have the luxury of playing nice regarding security.

  11. Re:Internet needs to quit playing along by Opportunist · · Score: 2

    Stop talking about "the internet" as if it had a personality of its own. "The internet", that's us. The ISPs are not "the internet", and they are certainly not the internet police, they are not when it comes to policing whether certain content may or may not pass through their cables and they are not when it comes to protecting your privacy.

    The only person who can protect your privacy is you. And you alone.

    Start using encryption, and where encryption is outlawed, start using encryption that cannot be detected as such.

    There is nobody out there who is going to come to our rescue. We have to take that matter into our own hands.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  12. They're catching up by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 2

    "Law-enforcement agencies will also be granted access to any user's messages without any judicial oversight."

    So....pretty much like it is here, eh? Wow, the Russians are finally catching up to us in state-approved surveillance, who would have guessed we'd be the leader in this field?

    Remember all the propaganda about "commies" and the "unfettered power of the police" they used to warn us about? Well, it turns out it was actually the US government that was running wild with virtually no constraints. The only constraint was "don't get caught", and even when they did get caught, nothing really happened.

    And now the police feel free to shoot anyone, any time, on any pretext or none at all. The latest example of this is Philando Castile, who wasn't doing anything worthy of being shot. His only "crime" was going out in public and allowing himself to be seen by the police. They asked for his ID, and when he reached for it, they shot him to death in his car, still sitting in the driver's seat next to his girlfriend.

    As Jesse Williams remarked, "In the interest of time, would ye noble patriots please provide a list of infractions punishable by spontaneous public execution?"

    --
    Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
  13. obvious question by superwiz · · Score: 2

    How? Even though most people are not tech-aware enough to write their own communications software, it's so ubiquitous now that getting a program which will allow you to encrypt all your voice calls is just a matter of compiling it. I mean, it's as simple as installing an operating system on a bare-bones PC. That's not exactly a high-level skill. This seems more like an attempt to force everyone living in Russia to encrypt their communications to increase the level of security of internal communications. Unlike Americans, who are basic sometime cynical but basically trusting of the government, RF citizens (and don't call them Russians because of them aren't) still retains the old Soviet attitude of cynicism towards any stated goals of the government.

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    Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
  14. Re:snowden better learn to shut up by Gavagai80 · · Score: 2

    Russia and China don't actually normally do anything against people who speak against their government as an individual. Organizing is what gets you jailed or killed -- be it a protest, a newspaper or a campaign for office.

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