Slashdot Mirror
Ask Slashdot: Is It Ever OK To Quit Without Giving Notice?
HughPickens.com writes: Employees and employers alike have the right under at-will employment laws in almost all states to end their relationship without notice, for any reason, but the two-week rule is a widely accepted standard of workplace conduct. However, Sue Shellenbarger writes at the WSJ that a growing number of workers are leaving without giving two weeks' notice. Some bosses blame young employees who feel frustrated by limited prospects or have little sense of attachment to their workplace. But employment experts say some older workers are quitting without notice as well. They feel overworked or unappreciated after years of laboring under pay cuts and expanded workloads imposed during the recession. One employee at Dupray, a customer-service rep, scheduled a meeting and announced she was quitting, then rose and headed for the exit. She seemed surprised when the director of human resources stopped her and explained that employees are expected to give two weeks' notice. "She said, 'I've been watching 'Suits,' and this is how it happens,'" referring to the TV drama set in a law firm.
According to Shellenbarger, quitting without notice is sometimes justified. Employees with access to proprietary information, such as those working in sales or new-product development, face a conflict of interest if they accept a job with a competitor. Employees in such cases typically depart right away -- ideally, by mutual agreement. It can also be best to exit quickly if an employer is abusive, or if you suspect your employer is doing something illegal. More often, quitting without notice "is done in the heat of emotion, by someone who is completely frustrated, angry, offended or upset," says David Lewis, president of OperationsInc., a Norwalk, Conn., human-resources consulting firm. That approach can burn bridges and generate bad references. Phyllis Hartman says employees have a responsibility to try to communicate about what's wrong. "Start figuring out if there is anything you can do to fix it. The worst that can happen is that nobody listens or they tell you no." What do you Slashdotters think about providing employers notice of departure? Has there ever been a circumstance that warranted quitting your job without any prior notice?
According to Shellenbarger, quitting without notice is sometimes justified. Employees with access to proprietary information, such as those working in sales or new-product development, face a conflict of interest if they accept a job with a competitor. Employees in such cases typically depart right away -- ideally, by mutual agreement. It can also be best to exit quickly if an employer is abusive, or if you suspect your employer is doing something illegal. More often, quitting without notice "is done in the heat of emotion, by someone who is completely frustrated, angry, offended or upset," says David Lewis, president of OperationsInc., a Norwalk, Conn., human-resources consulting firm. That approach can burn bridges and generate bad references. Phyllis Hartman says employees have a responsibility to try to communicate about what's wrong. "Start figuring out if there is anything you can do to fix it. The worst that can happen is that nobody listens or they tell you no." What do you Slashdotters think about providing employers notice of departure? Has there ever been a circumstance that warranted quitting your job without any prior notice?
As a contractor, I have more than once had a manager come to me on friday afternoon and tell me, "Don't bother coming in Monday... or ever!" As such, when I was offered $25/hour more than I was currently working to start another contract, but I had to start right away, I didn't bother giving notice, and was informed "yeah, just leave your page and parking permit with the security guard on your way out." As far as I can tell, nobody cares about notice anymore.
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
I have like ten weeks vacay banked. I can give ten weeks notice and walk right out the door.
I will, of course, generously offer to consult hourly at 90% of the rate my boss charges clients for my time for the first three months.
You save only 59 seconds over 8 miles by going 75 instead of 65. Do you really have to pass that guy? Do the Math!
I left a job and gave them two days notice because I saw the writing on the wall. They were hemorrhaging money and couldn't keep talent and I knew the job wouldn't last. I got another job in another city and they asked me to report the following week. This was on Wednesday. So I walked back inside, told them I Friday I was done. They scowled, scoffed, criticized and demonized me to the rest of the company. I even had to pay back a signing bonus I received due to a contract I signed. Didn't care. 10 days after I left the company, they folded - gave everyone pink slips and no severance. Loyalty doesn't mean anything, anywhere, anytime. Look out for yourself. Protect yourself. I gave a company I worked for previously a month's notice and they still complained I screwed them over ... so you can't win. Do what is best for you.
Like most blanket statements, that one doesn't hold water. My brother's company stood by him through four years of chemo. Some companies are not douches.
I agree: worked @ at DuPont Fibers for 30 years, unit sold to Koch brothers from Kansa ( yes them ) which put us as a private company for them. Had some layoffs and during this time, nobody got a raise for the first 3-4 years under them. Then it was decided to move jobs to Mexico.
I found another job in 2009 when full-time jobs were hard to get and gave them 2 hours notice on my last Friday at work before starting the new job on Monday, this after 35 years. Reason for no 2 week notice: people that did, got treated like shit during those 2 weeks including a boss. Seen what happened and did what I did w/o any regret. Probably would do same thing at current job, as companies now, really don't inspire or try to build loyalty like they use to.
yep. Nailed it. If employers want the right to fire you for any reason without notice, then it works both ways. This is really simple.
Seriously, if they don't boot you the moment you give notice, the two week "lame duck" phase can be the best part of your time working there. Spend a day finishing your leftover projects and writing some halfassed documentation, bullshit by the watercooler 7 hours a day for 8 more, and turn in your work on day 10. The next guy can deal with any do-overs needed.
And if you hate your job due to your immediate boss but don't have another one lined up, never quit! Turn it into a job you like until they fire you. Do the projects you like and completely ignore the ones you don't like. Boss complains about 1 hour lunches? Take a 2 hour lunch instead. If you work for a large enough company there's enough red tape and "protocol" to keep you employed for at least a month while you do whatever the fuck you want. Bonus, if you play by the rules they won't even be able to fire you "with cause".
The man who told me this secret managed to "work" a full extra year while giving 0 fucks at a job he would have hated, had he cared.
Leave without notice and start working the next day at your new job:
Result: Guaranteed no lost income
Leave with two weeks notice:
Result #1: Company fires you on the spot, walks you out and you lose two weeks of income
Result #2: Company keeps you on the payroll the two weeks, no loss of pay
All the risk is yours when you give two weeks notice, you give all the options to the company. When the shoe is on the other foot it is pretty much guaranteed that the company won't give you two weeks notice that they are going to let you go and few will pay you two weeks even though they'll walk you out right after telling you that you are fired.
My suggestion is spend a day or two putting together a transition folder, hand it in on the day you quit and wish them the best. Tell them that for security reasons you can't provide two weeks notice.
The last day I showed up to work, I was thrown under the bus by the manager in front of our VP and the rest of the team for a lie to cover up the manager's incompetence. I went home, got up the next day, went to my doctor for a note to get the rest of the week off, and marched in on the following Monday to the reception desk with a letter of resignation and dropping off all of the company equipment. Didn't even talk to my manager, and didn't answer any of the manager's phone calls or e-mails, nor anyone else on the team after the day I got thrown under the bus. I, quite literally, disappeared.
Why did I quit like this, especially without another source of income or health care coverage? Because leaving a gaping hole with a giant question mark in my wake was the only bit of power I had left to send a message for all of the misrepresentation, incompetence, unreasonable expectations and malice of the team that I had experienced . My mental and physical health has improved substantially since quitting, and so has the relationship with my loved ones. That team was screwed either way, but royally so with some of their deadlines that I had left the gaping hole in their roster for. I would've loved to have worked for another part of the company and was more than qualified to do so, but corporate rules prevent changes in position for the first year, and I had no expectation of a good review despite having been a high performing employee at other companies.
In the end, these issues point directly to the utter contempt that technology employers have for their employees, particularly their low-to-mid-tier individual contributors. What else should they expect when they themselves give no notice to employees when they terminate them? What else should they expect when they treat their employees like trash, expect them to work startup hours while receiving established company pay and bonuses, change job descriptions at a whim, and don't have the decency to form any kind of coherent team environment or structure?
The real message to HR departments and upper management on this phenomenon is this: if employees are quitting without notice more frequently, your problem is with your current corporate structure, management, and business, not with the employee that quits without notice, and you ignore this problem at your own peril.
I was working for a major defense contractor. Fortune 500 (probably Fortune 100).
Manager came in and told me that over his objections, I was being transferred to the Project From Hell. Before I even had a chance to think, the first words out of my mouth were, "I quit!". And my immediate reaction after that was "Oh my G-d... what the hell have I just done?"
Lucky for me, I was fairly senior, and the two other guys who were supposed to go to said project (who were senior to me) had identical reactions.
The three of us wound up in a meeting with the division's VP of Engineering. We didn't quit, we didn't have to transfer, and (fortunately), our careers weren't ruined (probably because the PfH had a reputation throughout the division).
General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
I have to second this. I work for a small (formerly family-owned) company.
My wife got ALS. They did everything possible to accommodate me. They realized that company loyalty is a two way street.
General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
Even in situations where the place was going to hell and was suffering under the worst managers. (In the case I'm thinking of; a big, very bro-y, MBA-ish, golf-buddies-get-promoted, east-coast logistics company acquired the close-knit San Francisco tech company I worked for. The cultural differences were irreconcilable for more than a few of us.) The thing is, I wasn't giving notice for the benefit of the company. I was giving notice for the benefit of my co-workers. (The legacy ones from our days as our own company, that is.). Two weeks may not be enough time to hire an actual replacement. But if you're on the ball, you can cram in a lot of knowledge transfer and not leave your friends and colleagues hanging (Any more than is absolutely necessary as a consequence of your leaving.).
To provoke a no-notice resignation, I think I'd have to have become aware that the company was breaking the law or engaged in a serious ethical violation. Physical violence, or sexual harassment or orientation discrimination would probably do the trick too.
Imagine all the people...
When I last changed jobs, I spent much of that two weeks cleaning up documentation and writing a simple and direct "introduction to the position" document for my replacement. During that time, my boss and backup did my normal duties. In doing so, she ran into a few hurdles, some questions. I was there to assist. By the day I left, she had been doing my daily job for two weeks. (While interviewing, I arranged for our workload to be light for the following few weeks).
At my current job, my boss recently quit. During his two weeks, he spent probably 60 hours documenting like crazy and demonstrating stuff for those of us he left behind. That was VERY helpful for us.
Sometimes you just have to burn a bridge, you want to hold it long enough for your friends to make it across but you have to burn it before the disease ridden husk of a functioning company makes it across and infects the rest of society.
I will second this as well.
My father, an immigrant, had been working for the same company for almost 25 years. Made it from blue collar worker to upper management. At some point, war broke out in his home country. He went to his boss and asked for a leave of absence to get his mother out of the war zone. The next day, he was called into a meeting of top executives.
He got told: " You have been working for us for 25 years, it's time for us to do something in return". They arranged for flights for him and me, hotel rooms, and at the airport they had a large amount of US currency waiting for us. Needless to say, he got as much time as needed. We ended up saving over 20 family members from the Kosovo war in 1999.
The company was a large multinational company, not some small family owned shop. Even today, this impresses me. Not all corporations are bad.
I'm not a complete idiot... Some parts are missing.
Does the company give at least two weeks paid notice to everyone it terminates?
Then my minimum will also be two weeks notice.
Does the company usually just tell people to gather their things and pay out the minimum it's legally required to?
Then my minimum will be the same.
Does the company generally give a couple of weeks severance unless for cause?
Then my minimum is also two weeks unless I'm quitting due to their cause.
Does the company have a good standard severance package?
Then I will also give them the option to have my work out longer.
Note: I say minimums. I'm also aware that, as poor as their behavior may be, I've also got my own reputation to watch out for. They may be a bunch of asshats. But my next employer is likely looking for reassurance that they'll get a respectful notice period and my quitting without notice, unless it's really easy to justify, just makes me look bad to future employers who background check.
That's one of the secrets, right there. Work in a place where the decision-makers actually reside and whom you will occasionally encounter, and you have a chance of being treated with respect. If "corporate" is in another town, all bets are off.
I second that. I work for a Mom and Pop ( literally) software consultancy. They truly do treat their employees like extended family, and bend over backwards to accommodate employees with family problems.
I could make more at another place; but there is something nice about not having to look over your shoulder nor having to keep your resume polished...