Slashdot Mirror
Ask Slashdot: Is It Ever OK To Quit Without Giving Notice?
HughPickens.com writes: Employees and employers alike have the right under at-will employment laws in almost all states to end their relationship without notice, for any reason, but the two-week rule is a widely accepted standard of workplace conduct. However, Sue Shellenbarger writes at the WSJ that a growing number of workers are leaving without giving two weeks' notice. Some bosses blame young employees who feel frustrated by limited prospects or have little sense of attachment to their workplace. But employment experts say some older workers are quitting without notice as well. They feel overworked or unappreciated after years of laboring under pay cuts and expanded workloads imposed during the recession. One employee at Dupray, a customer-service rep, scheduled a meeting and announced she was quitting, then rose and headed for the exit. She seemed surprised when the director of human resources stopped her and explained that employees are expected to give two weeks' notice. "She said, 'I've been watching 'Suits,' and this is how it happens,'" referring to the TV drama set in a law firm.
According to Shellenbarger, quitting without notice is sometimes justified. Employees with access to proprietary information, such as those working in sales or new-product development, face a conflict of interest if they accept a job with a competitor. Employees in such cases typically depart right away -- ideally, by mutual agreement. It can also be best to exit quickly if an employer is abusive, or if you suspect your employer is doing something illegal. More often, quitting without notice "is done in the heat of emotion, by someone who is completely frustrated, angry, offended or upset," says David Lewis, president of OperationsInc., a Norwalk, Conn., human-resources consulting firm. That approach can burn bridges and generate bad references. Phyllis Hartman says employees have a responsibility to try to communicate about what's wrong. "Start figuring out if there is anything you can do to fix it. The worst that can happen is that nobody listens or they tell you no." What do you Slashdotters think about providing employers notice of departure? Has there ever been a circumstance that warranted quitting your job without any prior notice?
According to Shellenbarger, quitting without notice is sometimes justified. Employees with access to proprietary information, such as those working in sales or new-product development, face a conflict of interest if they accept a job with a competitor. Employees in such cases typically depart right away -- ideally, by mutual agreement. It can also be best to exit quickly if an employer is abusive, or if you suspect your employer is doing something illegal. More often, quitting without notice "is done in the heat of emotion, by someone who is completely frustrated, angry, offended or upset," says David Lewis, president of OperationsInc., a Norwalk, Conn., human-resources consulting firm. That approach can burn bridges and generate bad references. Phyllis Hartman says employees have a responsibility to try to communicate about what's wrong. "Start figuring out if there is anything you can do to fix it. The worst that can happen is that nobody listens or they tell you no." What do you Slashdotters think about providing employers notice of departure? Has there ever been a circumstance that warranted quitting your job without any prior notice?
A company cannot fight for right-to-work laws, then be upset when employees exercise their right to not work.
More data, damnit!
Employers LOVE at-will, when it's in their favor. But a lowly employee exercising that same right? Ohh nooo, you're just young and inexperienced.
If I'm an employee and I fuck up or do something that is grounds for termination... no employer in an at-will state is going to say "Okay, we're firing you, but we're going to let you keep working here for two more weeks while you look for a new job". No, you'll be out on your ass.
Well, if a company treats me in a way that I view as unacceptable, guess what.. I'm not giving you two more weeks of my life. The whole "employees are expected to give two weeks" bullshit is a such a double standard in many cases.
I will give you notice if you treat me in a way that deserves for notice to be given.
If this story leaves you a feeling of dejavu, don't worry, it's just Hugh Pickens cross-posting on /. and SN again to attract more traffic to his site
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
As a contractor, I have more than once had a manager come to me on friday afternoon and tell me, "Don't bother coming in Monday... or ever!" As such, when I was offered $25/hour more than I was currently working to start another contract, but I had to start right away, I didn't bother giving notice, and was informed "yeah, just leave your page and parking permit with the security guard on your way out." As far as I can tell, nobody cares about notice anymore.
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
I left a job and gave them two days notice because I saw the writing on the wall. They were hemorrhaging money and couldn't keep talent and I knew the job wouldn't last. I got another job in another city and they asked me to report the following week. This was on Wednesday. So I walked back inside, told them I Friday I was done. They scowled, scoffed, criticized and demonized me to the rest of the company. I even had to pay back a signing bonus I received due to a contract I signed. Didn't care. 10 days after I left the company, they folded - gave everyone pink slips and no severance. Loyalty doesn't mean anything, anywhere, anytime. Look out for yourself. Protect yourself. I gave a company I worked for previously a month's notice and they still complained I screwed them over ... so you can't win. Do what is best for you.
If you're not being mistreated, then don't be a jerk. *Especially* if your leaving without notice will screw over your co-workers, who plan to stay. If you have a good working relationship with your boss and co-workers, then jumping ship to greener pastures is not only acceptable, but even celebrated.
I know for a fact, that if someone in *my* group were to quit, it would totally fuck over for my vacation plans, and I would lose a LOT of money.
Your network is absolutely vital in today's job market. Screw over your employer, or worse, your fellow employees? They'll remember that. And they'll post about it on Facebook and LinkedIn.
But if this is because you're a daily ration of crap? And you're in a right-to-work state? AND you have no reason to expect you'll ever work with your fellow employees again, or your leaving won't hurt them?
Drop that bomb with pride.
[End Of Line]
Quitting without giving notice is rude. That's all, just rude.
If your employer has been reasonable and supported you with things you want (perhaps flexibility in hours, or training), then two weeks notice is only the polite thing to do.
If they've been extorting god-awful amounts of overtime from you, perhaps with the ever-present threat of being let go for no reason at all, then a little rudeness isn't out of place.
A thousand pounds of wood moving at 300 feet per minute. Don't get in the way.
Like most blanket statements, that one doesn't hold water. My brother's company stood by him through four years of chemo. Some companies are not douches.
More to the point, a company can (and will) fire you w/o notice if they feel like it. Why should you not be able to 'fire' them in the same fashion?
Companies are sociopath entities that are only as good to you as they least friendly person to you in any position of power. They don't care anything about you or your well being. People within the company might, but the company does not, it exists to make money. You might owe people loyalty, but never a company.
HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
Seriously, if they don't boot you the moment you give notice, the two week "lame duck" phase can be the best part of your time working there. Spend a day finishing your leftover projects and writing some halfassed documentation, bullshit by the watercooler 7 hours a day for 8 more, and turn in your work on day 10. The next guy can deal with any do-overs needed.
And if you hate your job due to your immediate boss but don't have another one lined up, never quit! Turn it into a job you like until they fire you. Do the projects you like and completely ignore the ones you don't like. Boss complains about 1 hour lunches? Take a 2 hour lunch instead. If you work for a large enough company there's enough red tape and "protocol" to keep you employed for at least a month while you do whatever the fuck you want. Bonus, if you play by the rules they won't even be able to fire you "with cause".
The man who told me this secret managed to "work" a full extra year while giving 0 fucks at a job he would have hated, had he cared.
The question posed is "Has there ever been a circumstance that warranted quitting your job without any prior notice?"
Of course such situations arise. Giving notice should be the default, out of respect for co-workers who may have to juggle their tasks and schedules if you leave and ideally out of a respect for your employer. But if you work in an abusive workplace and have no ability to change that, then leaving immediately is often justified by the way you are being treated or by the way your employer is treating others.
Whether it is legally advisable, financially plausible, will hurt your career to leave, or will leave good co-workers in the lurch if you leave are all other questions that will influence the decision of whether to actually do it.
Real lawyers write in C++
If the employee is so angry or annoyed that they are willing to leave without notice, it is probably best that they are just allowed to leave.
Do you really want a disgruntled employee, serving your customers, maintaining your IT system, managing your finances, ... for two weeks?
It maybe in the contract but it makes no sense to force someone to stay unless they are very closely supervised.
Leave without notice and start working the next day at your new job:
Result: Guaranteed no lost income
Leave with two weeks notice:
Result #1: Company fires you on the spot, walks you out and you lose two weeks of income
Result #2: Company keeps you on the payroll the two weeks, no loss of pay
All the risk is yours when you give two weeks notice, you give all the options to the company. When the shoe is on the other foot it is pretty much guaranteed that the company won't give you two weeks notice that they are going to let you go and few will pay you two weeks even though they'll walk you out right after telling you that you are fired.
My suggestion is spend a day or two putting together a transition folder, hand it in on the day you quit and wish them the best. Tell them that for security reasons you can't provide two weeks notice.
The last day I showed up to work, I was thrown under the bus by the manager in front of our VP and the rest of the team for a lie to cover up the manager's incompetence. I went home, got up the next day, went to my doctor for a note to get the rest of the week off, and marched in on the following Monday to the reception desk with a letter of resignation and dropping off all of the company equipment. Didn't even talk to my manager, and didn't answer any of the manager's phone calls or e-mails, nor anyone else on the team after the day I got thrown under the bus. I, quite literally, disappeared.
Why did I quit like this, especially without another source of income or health care coverage? Because leaving a gaping hole with a giant question mark in my wake was the only bit of power I had left to send a message for all of the misrepresentation, incompetence, unreasonable expectations and malice of the team that I had experienced . My mental and physical health has improved substantially since quitting, and so has the relationship with my loved ones. That team was screwed either way, but royally so with some of their deadlines that I had left the gaping hole in their roster for. I would've loved to have worked for another part of the company and was more than qualified to do so, but corporate rules prevent changes in position for the first year, and I had no expectation of a good review despite having been a high performing employee at other companies.
In the end, these issues point directly to the utter contempt that technology employers have for their employees, particularly their low-to-mid-tier individual contributors. What else should they expect when they themselves give no notice to employees when they terminate them? What else should they expect when they treat their employees like trash, expect them to work startup hours while receiving established company pay and bonuses, change job descriptions at a whim, and don't have the decency to form any kind of coherent team environment or structure?
The real message to HR departments and upper management on this phenomenon is this: if employees are quitting without notice more frequently, your problem is with your current corporate structure, management, and business, not with the employee that quits without notice, and you ignore this problem at your own peril.
I was working for a major defense contractor. Fortune 500 (probably Fortune 100).
Manager came in and told me that over his objections, I was being transferred to the Project From Hell. Before I even had a chance to think, the first words out of my mouth were, "I quit!". And my immediate reaction after that was "Oh my G-d... what the hell have I just done?"
Lucky for me, I was fairly senior, and the two other guys who were supposed to go to said project (who were senior to me) had identical reactions.
The three of us wound up in a meeting with the division's VP of Engineering. We didn't quit, we didn't have to transfer, and (fortunately), our careers weren't ruined (probably because the PfH had a reputation throughout the division).
General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
Based on OP's demand to show as much loyalty that they show you, your brother is now required to give 4 years' notice.
If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
Right choice.
Never accept a counteroffer. _Never_.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
I have to second this. I work for a small (formerly family-owned) company.
My wife got ALS. They did everything possible to accommodate me. They realized that company loyalty is a two way street.
General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
When I last changed jobs, I spent much of that two weeks cleaning up documentation and writing a simple and direct "introduction to the position" document for my replacement. During that time, my boss and backup did my normal duties. In doing so, she ran into a few hurdles, some questions. I was there to assist. By the day I left, she had been doing my daily job for two weeks. (While interviewing, I arranged for our workload to be light for the following few weeks).
At my current job, my boss recently quit. During his two weeks, he spent probably 60 hours documenting like crazy and demonstrating stuff for those of us he left behind. That was VERY helpful for us.
I will second this as well.
My father, an immigrant, had been working for the same company for almost 25 years. Made it from blue collar worker to upper management. At some point, war broke out in his home country. He went to his boss and asked for a leave of absence to get his mother out of the war zone. The next day, he was called into a meeting of top executives.
He got told: " You have been working for us for 25 years, it's time for us to do something in return". They arranged for flights for him and me, hotel rooms, and at the airport they had a large amount of US currency waiting for us. Needless to say, he got as much time as needed. We ended up saving over 20 family members from the Kosovo war in 1999.
The company was a large multinational company, not some small family owned shop. Even today, this impresses me. Not all corporations are bad.
I'm not a complete idiot... Some parts are missing.
That's one of the secrets, right there. Work in a place where the decision-makers actually reside and whom you will occasionally encounter, and you have a chance of being treated with respect. If "corporate" is in another town, all bets are off.
You are welcome on my lawn.
No. There Is No Effective Fiduciary Duty to Maximize Profits
https://medium.com/bull-market...
I realise what you are saying is effectively believed to be true by millions, but its little more than a cultural myth. I'm writing in the hope people starting new companies don't behave in the crass manner you describe.
If I'm doing my job properly as a manager, no one should ever be indispensable.
Highly valued? Sure. I want to build a team where everyone is exceptionally valued.
But if anyone ever becomes indispensable, I've failed in my job as a manager.
Why? The hit by a bus factor. That wonderful employee who loves me, who I love... can still get hit by a bus. Can still get sick. Can still have a loved one die. Can still have a relative offer to pay all expenses for a once in a lifetime six week world trip.
If I have any employee that I can't keep my team running without, even at zero notice, I'm not running my team well.
It may suck. It may be sad. It may require some juggling I'd much rather not do. But any indispensability means I've done my job badly.
This means, if someone quits with zero notice, I can handle it.
At that point, it's actually a good thing anyway. If they're so pissed off that they'd statement quit, I don't need them in the office, poisoning others, dragging their heels through their short timer's disease. Let's get them somewhere where they're happy and get my team of great people back doing great things. We'll live.
Strange thing? When you have a well run team that you can already be confident in, people rarely statement quit anyway. For some reason, they don't seem to feel the need. Imagine that. And when they do? You've got it handled anyway.
That's one of the secrets, right there. Work in a place where the decision-makers actually reside and whom you will occasionally encounter, and you have a chance of being treated with respect. If "corporate" is in another town, all bets are off.
I second that. I work for a Mom and Pop ( literally) software consultancy. They truly do treat their employees like extended family, and bend over backwards to accommodate employees with family problems.
I could make more at another place; but there is something nice about not having to look over your shoulder nor having to keep your resume polished...
The reason you can't find a decent job is because companies that are good to work at won't hire people like you.
You don't give notice because you give a shit about your (soon to be former) employer, you give notice because that's what a professional does. Walk out without notice and you declare "I am not a professional."
Small wonder you can only get shitty jobs. You're a shitty employee.