Google To Train 2 Million Indian Android Developers (thestack.com)

Another reason by colinrichardday · 2016-07-11 15:31 · Score: 5, Interesting

Another reason for Americans to not study programming.

Re:Another reason by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 16:12 · Score: 1

They better learn how to say: "Yah want a samoosa wizzat?"
So we will have another flood of craplets for cell phones and tablets that people download, try once and then never figure out how to uninstall, while it sends all credit card and banking details to Bangalore.
Obviously, that is just what the world needs to keep free trade going.
Re: Another reason by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 16:45 · Score: 0, Insightful

The myth is that quality coders are actually in demand now. How hard is it to find a good job even if you know your stuff? If you want to get ahead today, become a doctor or nurse or something. I'm only in tech because I like video games.
Re:Another reason by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 16:51 · Score: 2, Insightful

why isn't google investing in two million *americans* ?
indians works for pennies on the dollar, and won't need to be h1-b'd either.
Re: Another reason by ArmoredDragon · 2016-07-11 16:56 · Score: 2

Almost every doctor or nurse I've spoken to says that if they had to do it all over again, they'd go into something else.
Re:Another reason by jmd · 2016-07-11 16:59 · Score: 4, Funny

How about *american indians*
Re: Another reason by superwiz · 2016-07-11 17:25 · Score: 3, Informative

That's precisely why they "get the big bucks".

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Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
Re: Another reason by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 17:31 · Score: 0

But But but what about equality? Don't you want more American woman to be jobless and outsourced too?
Re:Another reason by Tablizer · 2016-07-11 18:06 · Score: 1

If India allowed a reverse visa, B1H, then unemployed Americans could go to India to work on all the mundane and legacy projects that their young coding population turns down.

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Table-ized A.I.
Re:Another reason by superwiz · 2016-07-11 18:08 · Score: 3, Interesting

Another reason for Americans to not study programming.
To be more precise, another reason for Americans not to study programming on Android. According to the summary only 1/4 of 4 million Indian developers are working on mobile. And these are supposed to be additional 2 million developers. So the program plans to increase the number of Indian developers by 50%. I have to admit, this seriously gives me pause about having learn-android-platform on my todo list. It moves it somewhere below learn-cobol level. I am surprised to see this come out of Google though. Instead of finding ways to automate many tasks of Android development they decide to hand it off to be done through repetitive cheap human labor. Didn't expect it from the company which used to strive to be at the forefront of development. I am curious though what Kurzweil thinks of it. It's certainly a move towards flattening the singularity trend rather than allowing it to spike.

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Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
Re:Another reason by Hognoxious · 2016-07-11 18:26 · Score: 1

One in, one out? You might be onto something there.

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Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Re: Another reason by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 19:02 · Score: 1

My story is more important than your dumb comment.
With respect, what does your trip to Brazil have to do with Google training 2 million new Android developers in India or the GP's relevant comment concerning the reduction in perceived value of programming skills among Americans faced with cheap foreign labor competition? Maybe you should seek help in a more appropriate forum?
Re: Another reason by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 19:16 · Score: 0

So when are you going to Brasil again?
Re:Another reason by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 19:24 · Score: 2, Funny

the north american indigenous population was mistakenly called 'indians' by some dumb white guy in the 1400s who got lost on his way to the india in asia. don't be like him, they're 'native americans' in the u.s., 'first nations' in canada.
the native americans, btw, are too busy counting all their money made off the dumb white man at their casinos to worry about petty things like mobile app development.
Re: Another reason by Richard_at_work · 2016-07-11 21:26 · Score: 1

Quite often, the "big bucks" are not enough - its a high stress, low relaxation lifestyle which comes with big fiscal costs as well, such as insurance, ongoing training and often buying your own equipment.
Re:Another reason by RabidReindeer · 2016-07-11 21:33 · Score: 3, Informative

Except that an H1-B can come to America, work for a couple of years,send money home and return to retire quite comfortably by Indian standards.
A B1-H would go to India, work for a couple of years and return to apply for a job as a Wal-Mart greeter.
Re: Another reason by JaredOfEuropa · 2016-07-11 21:37 · Score: 5, Interesting

There is demand for quality coders everywhere I look. Problem is: companies seem to be able to select halfway decent coders from the absolute rubbish ones, but they are poor at spotting real talent, and (perhaps as a result) are unwilling to pay for it. I've had these discussions a few times, project manager or dept head wants a top coder for a difficult job, I tell them I can recommend someone but he does charge €x / hour, after which the response is "are you f-ing nuts?!". They do sometimes pay top rates for top talent to jump on a project and fix stuff that the team cannot handle, but they see it as paying troubleshooter / interim rates. Sure, you can hire 2 average coders instead of 1 really good one, or 6 Indians, but what these managers fail to understand is that the good one will do more than twice the work of the average ones and over 6 times of what the Indians will produce. Not because they are superhumanly fast coders, but because they help managers and teams avoid the mistakes they are crying about now.

Companies want (demand, beg for) quality coders, but only when their project goes tits up. caught early in unit tests, etc.

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If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
Re:Another reason by JaredOfEuropa · 2016-07-11 21:45 · Score: 4, Insightful

You might want to rethink that: Cobol guys make good money. It's kind of like learning SAP: it's soul-suckingly dreadful work but it pays very well, and SAP / ERP people always seem to be in good demand.

If you want to learn app development, look into cross-platform stuff. I'm having a decent experience with Xamarin (coding in C#, which is better than Objective-C and chocolate-and-sprinkles-covered-heavenly better than Java on Android), and there are some other options.

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If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
Re: Another reason by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 21:54 · Score: 0

Because Brazil and India are both cities in that foreign place right? The world is just the USA and foreign mudshack land after all.
Re:Another reason by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 21:55 · Score: 1

How about a compromise - redskins?
Re:Another reason by Hognoxious · 2016-07-11 22:01 · Score: 1

No B1H, no H1B. If they really want to bring someone in, they'll have to give someone an incentive to go the other way.
A sort of subsidised gap year.
You can see I've really thought this through, can't you?

--
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Re:Another reason by AmiMoJo · 2016-07-12 00:02 · Score: 1

It's not a zero sum game.

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const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Re: Another reason by Opportunist · 2016-07-12 00:09 · Score: 4, Insightful

There is no need to hire some expensive troubleshooter for insane rates if, and only if, you don't try to cut corners by hiring crappy coders in the first place.

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We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Re: Another reason by Opportunist · 2016-07-12 00:10 · Score: 2

Of course, that's why we need far more women to study STEM fields. Can't be that only men are unemployed!

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We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Re:Another reason by Opportunist · 2016-07-12 00:12 · Score: 2

Is that for real? European here, wants to know: Does WalMart really hire people who do nothing but, well, greet people as they enter the store? Or is that some euphemism for an essentially useless job where someone who is otherwise unemployable gets a meaningless job, like being a TSA agent?

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We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Re:Another reason by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-12 00:24 · Score: 2, Insightful

Is that for real? European here, wants to know: Does WalMart really hire people who do nothing but, well, greet people as they enter the store? Or is that some euphemism for an essentially useless job where someone who is otherwise unemployable gets a meaningless job, like being a TSA agent?
Would you believe it's both? I ask because it is both.
Re: Another reason by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-12 00:47 · Score: 0

This always looks insightful until you realise that there are very few projects where you need "the best" people on it. Most of the time you just need "enough" meaning just good enough to get the job done for a much cheaper price. You can argue all you want contrary to that however your examples already prove my point.
Re:Another reason by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-12 00:54 · Score: 1

Note for disclosure, I am a manager at Walmart. Yes, Walmart does hire people whose primary job is to stand at the door & greet people, as well as answer basic customer questions, like the location of items, or where you go to return an item.
They also help with theft prevention; if they see someone with say a shopping cart of beer eying the exit, they will radio security/management to the door to prevent the would be thief from rushing out the door to a waiting car. They can also warn management/security when certain troublesome customers come in, who need to be watched (like those that are bit tipsy, or people who will grab clearance tags and stick them on other, similar items.) And apparently Walmart's studies have found just having someone at the door saying hello makes people less likely to steal.
At the store I work at, all of the greeters are either elderly or disabled, and would have a difficult time finding work elsewhere. So while people make fun of the door greeter job, it really helps helps out those people.
Re: Another reason by Fire_Wraith · 2016-07-12 01:03 · Score: 2

That would imply paying for quality in the first place, which management tends to be allergic to the idea of doing.
Re: Another reason by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-12 01:07 · Score: 0

My story is more important than your dumb comment.
With respect, what does your trip to Brazil have to do with Google training 2 million new Android developers in India or the GP's relevant comment concerning the reduction in perceived value of programming skills among Americans faced with cheap foreign labor competition? Maybe you should seek help in a more appropriate forum?
It's a fucking troll......dont' feed it..
Re:Another reason by GLMDesigns · 2016-07-12 01:11 · Score: 0

Except he wasn't lost. Nimrod.

go peddle your brain-dead sh!t elsewhere.

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If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
Re:Another reason by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-12 01:19 · Score: 1

All the money in the world couldn't get me to a third-world country like India. The honor killings, mobs murdering people suspected of eating beef, thousands being tortured and executed on suspicion of being a witch, 80% of their rivers choked with raw, untreated sewage, rampant corruption, modern slavery, and their prime minister is a nutter are all things I try to avoid.
Re:Another reason by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-12 01:22 · Score: 0

It sure looks like one when new slices of the ever-growing economic pie seem to only go to a select few elites. The elites have turned it into a zero sum game for us wage slaves.
I don't know what the answer is. It's certainly not embracing xenophobia, if that's what you're getting at.
Re:Another reason by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-12 01:29 · Score: 0

And we call them Injuns precisely to distinguish them from "Asian Indians." If you insist on the "Indian" moniker, you can preface the distinguishing differentiator, "dot" or "feather" to identify the variety.
Re:Another reason by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-12 01:39 · Score: 0

Then Ideocracy wasn't a joke?!?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8zNsUTWsOc
Re:Another reason by Opportunist · 2016-07-12 01:56 · Score: 1

I'm not making fun of it, far from it, I just could not imagine it. Mostly I was not understanding what would be the benefit for WalMart, what's the value this person adds to the store. I was already quite stunned when someone started to put my groceries into a bag for me (something you won't see around here either). If you explain it that way, I can see that "greeter's" value, he essentially doubles as an info center, theft prevention and general "make the customer feel home" point all rolled into one. I can understand the value for the store now. Even though I could not see this fly around here. A few supermarkets tried to offer bagging services and you should have seen how people went nuts over it. In a nutshell: Doesn't work here. NOT a good idea.
My guess is that it's a cultural thing. Not to mention that minimum wage laws would not make such positions viable around this area, I doubt you pay that person around 1200 a month (which would be about minimum wage).

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We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Re: Another reason by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-12 01:57 · Score: 0

I prefer "casino indian" versus "convenience store" indian
Re: Another reason by Opportunist · 2016-07-12 02:04 · Score: 1

I know. HELL, I know.
It is possible to get quality for cheap, to some degree, but you have to do a lot of searching and be willing to do a lot of trial and error. There is a lot of young talent that you can snap up for rather low prices, but be prepared that they will move on quickly if you can't pay them well once they have some time with you on their resume. I generally manage tenure here only with job perks that people want (like setting 45 hours a week as the MAXIMUM not the MINIMUM work time, relaxed atmosphere, come and go as you please as long as your work is done, work from home if you prefer, unfiltered internet access, no dress code, cheap/free lunches,...).
You can afford quality, if you are willing to accommodate it. I have a few people who show up around noon (or later) because they really love sleeping in. Since almost everything we do here is project work, why should I force them to be in at 8am? Why should I force them into suits (unless they have a customer appointment, ok, we have to play dress up for that, but everyone here has a locker with a suit for those "emergency situations")? Why should I even force them to come in (one actually once told me the main reason he comes in more often during Summer is that the office has an AC and he doesn't have one at home)? Those are all things I don't get anything out of, but not forcing that rubbish on people is a job perk for them. So why not give them what they want?
It doesn't cost me anything, you know...

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We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Re:Another reason by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-12 02:17 · Score: 0

Once people begin to figure out the code quality coming out of india is piss poor trash from some barely intelligible moron skilled programmer demand will rise. I could eat a burrito and shit out better code than most of these useless diaper skid marks.
Re: Another reason by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-12 02:18 · Score: 0

I'll feed whatever I want you fuck!
Re: Another reason by ranton · 2016-07-12 02:24 · Score: 1

There is no need to hire some expensive troubleshooter for insane rates if, and only if, you don't try to cut corners by hiring crappy coders in the first place.
One problem I have found in some companies I have interviewed for is salary scales that simply cannot accommodate real talent. I almost joined a company recently for a technical architect position to help fix a very problematic software implementation. They understood they did not have the talent and were looking for help, but their pay scales couldn't fit in someone qualified for the job. The director I would have worked for fought for the highest bonus percentage possible, and was even granted an exception to provide me director level stock options, but still couldn't get total compensation over $150k. I was told even most directors made under $200k in total comp, so it simply wasn't possible for someone with only a few direct reports to make close to that amount.
The only option was consulting at a rate far beyond what they would have paid me as a full time employee, even after including almost $40k in benefits. They were willing to pay close to $300k in yearly consulting for a position they needed for at least a few years instead of letting an individual contributor (with a few direct reports) make a director level salary (costing them around $80k extra per year).
I ended up staying with my current company once I had a heart to heart about my career progression and ended up with a big promotion (easier to do when you have another offer in hand), so it turns out they wouldn't have gotten me anyway. But from contacts I have at that company they are still struggling with a tangled web of consultants without anyone there to manage the technical side competently.

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-- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
Re: Another reason by ranton · 2016-07-12 02:30 · Score: 2

The myth is that quality coders are actually in demand now. How hard is it to find a good job even if you know your stuff? If you want to get ahead today, become a doctor or nurse or something. I'm only in tech because I like video games.
You just gave me an idea for an interview question. Just ask if the candidate feels there is a shortage for quality software engineers. If they say it is a myth, they certainly aren't a quality candidate. Rates for quality engineers keep going up because they have ample proof their skills are in demand.
I'd agree most companies don't pay their IT teams very well, but that is why they are stuck with crap teams. This perpetuates their belief that programmers don't deserve higher wages, and their teams remain below par. Well, maybe at par since so many companies are like this. None of this means quality coders aren't in demand, but it is a reason there is such a wide gap in salaries between average programmers and elite ones.

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-- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
Re: Another reason by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-12 02:37 · Score: 0

Maybe they can train white people how to run hotels and gas stations?
Re: Another reason by BarbaraHudson · 2016-07-12 02:40 · Score: 1

Actually, there's a surplus because nobody wants to hire/pay for quality.

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"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
Re:Another reason by BarbaraHudson · 2016-07-12 02:42 · Score: 1

It's cover for having someone check your receipt to see if you actually paid for what you have, rather than working in collusion with the cashier or scamming the self check-out.

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"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
Re: Another reason by macs4all · 2016-07-12 02:44 · Score: 1

The director I would have worked for fought for the highest bonus percentage possible, and was even granted an exception to provide me director level stock options, but still couldn't get total compensation over $150k. I was told even most directors made under $200k in total comp,

And we sit here wondering why corps are turning to H1b workers in droves.

Seriously. I'm as capitalistic as anyone; but there is NOTHING that should command making that much money for a sustained period, unless you are saving the planet from an asteroid impact or a global pandemic.
Re:Another reason by BarbaraHudson · 2016-07-12 02:46 · Score: 1

Hope you aren't doing any programming. An increase of 50% from 1 million Android developers is 1.5 million. Adding 1 million is a 100% increase. Adding 2 million is a 200% increase. Big difference between 50% and 200%. No wonder the mars probe missed the planet.

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"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
Re: Another reason by NotAPK · 2016-07-12 02:49 · Score: 1

Plus, and this is *always* overlooked, in the medical fields 90% of the people you around are sick as shit and die all the time. Can you imagine how crap that is?
There's a reason medicos marry other medicos, and it's not because they are elitist or "get" each other. It's because they are the only other people they interact with who aren't on their way to death. Sometimes "two feet and a heart beat" can be quite literal...
Re:Another reason by macs4all · 2016-07-12 02:51 · Score: 1

They can also warn management/security when certain troublesome customers come in, who need to be watched (like those that are bit tipsy, or people who will grab clearance tags and stick them on other, similar items.)

...or are black. You forgot that.
Re:Another reason by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-12 03:01 · Score: 0

How is our service only computer-based economy supposed to take off if we don't study programming?
Re:Another reason by NotAPK · 2016-07-12 03:05 · Score: 1

Ha ha, that's rich.
Consider the USA very carefully:
You have killings.
Mobs.
Torture.
Unsafe water.
Corruption.
And at least one of your presidential nominees is a Total Nutjob!
So what's wrong with India exactly?
Re:Another reason by NotAPK · 2016-07-12 03:06 · Score: 1

Sorry, I missed out the slavery link. Not hard to find either...
Re: Another reason by Rinikusu · 2016-07-12 03:08 · Score: 1

The "problem" is that some of the truly excellent coders/developers/etc are:
1) prima donna assholes - I have no desire to work with someone with whom I want to kick in the teeth every time they fucking open their goddamned mouth. Do your job. If you spent more time coding and less time telling everyone how amazing you were, we'd think you were actually amazing because you get shit done.
2) not as excellent as they think they are. I'm no rockstar coder. And yet I've been handed codebases where management were absolutely gushing about how smart and awesome and whatever the previous dev was and once I get the code open, it's full of stack overflow paste jobs, half-assed code and I think "Wow, they paid this dude how much???" It's like thinking you're going to get a Sam Maloof and come home with an Ikea and everyone thinks it's amazing. On the other hand, if that's the standard, why, I guess when in Rome..
3) "always looking for a challenge": this can be taken a couple ways: first, because of #2 above, they don't want to be around when someone finally busts them out on it, which would break their fragile little egos (not really. those checks are long cashed and spent. Can't really blame them). and Second, they're going to jump ship every 8-12 months looking for "something new".
And frankly, #3 is probably where it hurts the most. But, with our new system of "zero loyalty between either party", from a corporate perspective, if I have to train and bring up to speed a new dev every time I need to change something, I might as well do it for 1000rs a day vs $500+/day.

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If you were me, you'd be good lookin'. - six string samurai
Re:Another reason by cayenne8 · 2016-07-12 03:13 · Score: 2

Google is an American company...well, at least they started here.
WTF aren't they doing things like this HERE in the US for our own citizens? At least have the courtesy to do it in your native land FIRST!!!

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Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
Re: Another reason by AmiMoJo · 2016-07-12 03:34 · Score: 2

Companies just want something that works. It doesn't have to be good, it just has to perform the function required of it. Occasionally there is a business case for quality, but mostly it's about getting something functional cheaply. That's why you end up with hack on top of hack, because doing a proper fix means time and money invested. It's short sighted but there is rarely much incentive to look at the long term.
The market doesn't value quality very highly either. Lots of great products die because there is a worse but cheaper one, or because the competition spent more on sales staff and underhand business practices. That affects Indian companies too, for example Zoho Office is pretty good actually, but somehow couldn't compete with the much more basic Google Apps and Microsoft Office Online.
As such, it's hard to make the business case for paying for good developers.

--
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Re: Another reason by Opportunist · 2016-07-12 03:59 · Score: 1

I've been saying that for ages, but CEOs don't seem to agree.

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We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Re:Another reason by superwiz · 2016-07-12 04:06 · Score: 1

Adding 2 million to the total number of 4 million is a 50% increase.

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Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
Re:Another reason by Hevel-Varik · 2016-07-12 05:07 · Score: 1

He didn't forget that. If the black man is dressed in a polo shirt and jeans no one will suspect him and if he comes in dressed like a thug then he will. So, yeah in a hoodie and baggy pants, which style reportedly originated from jail where you get pants that don't quite fit and you can't have a belt.
Guess what, replace the word black in the previous paragraph with the word white and the truth value remains the same. It's sad that we need to spell this out.
The thug-life/gangsta rap culture is degenerate. Read the lyrics, there is no two way about it. That culture isn't black or white, it's just a culture or way of life. It's is unfortunate that that culture is as pervasive as it is with the black youth but that doesn't make it any better.
Re:Another reason by colinrichardday · 2016-07-12 05:09 · Score: 1

Good question, but what will this computer-based economy pay programmers?
Re: Another reason by ranton · 2016-07-12 05:19 · Score: 1

Seriously. I'm as capitalistic as anyone; but there is NOTHING that should command making[$200k per year] for a sustained period, unless you are saving the planet from an asteroid impact or a global pandemic.
This is one significant aspect of our society which contributes to a lack of opportunity for those who are never exposed to success earlier in life. In my late 20's I still thought a $65k salary was high because of my small farm town background which never introduced me to many successful people. At the time I didn't realize what it took to gain a high level of value since I didn't really know anyone who had.
I think this is a big reason why you have so many people working so hard in their jobs without ever becoming very valuable to their employer. They never had the right role models. I work harder than most people, but there are plenty of people working much harder than me making a fifth of my salary. The only difference is they haven't found a way to get a decent ROI on their effort, primarily because they didn't know they needed to focus on that.
The job I referenced earlier was for a company with a few billion dollars of revenue each year, and my work would have had a direct impact on the efficiency of their sales and service teams. The company already had plenty of H1B contractors working for them state side, IT offices in developing countries, and plenty of local IT staff making $80k a year or so. These types of teams are fine for most software implementations, but for the projects which will actually move the needle at these companies it takes employees with more significant value.
One of the best career advice I ever got was to spend my effort making someone else a lot of money, and make sure the reason I am valuable to that person is easily transferable to other people with money. As long as I make my employer much more money than his other employees, and they know I could easily transfer my skills to another employer, I will be taken care of. That advice has proven to be very accurate.

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-- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
Re: Another reason by ranton · 2016-07-12 05:24 · Score: 1

Actually, there's a surplus because nobody wants to hire/pay for quality.
I doubt you do much hiring for skilled IT talent, because if you did you wouldn't think there is a surplus. Even with total compensation packages hovering around $100k-$150k in the Midwest it can be hard to snipe top talent from other companies. The best luck comes from finding young people who were grossly underpaid by their first job out of college. With unemployment at near zero for qualified applicants that is almost the only way to find the best people.
You can certainly get hundreds of resumes from people who will do more harm than good to your code base, but that isn't a surplus of workers many are willing to tap into.

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-- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
Re:Another reason by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-12 05:36 · Score: 0

Technically it is a security job. When someone suspicious walks in they keep an eye out. When the theft prevention detectors at the door go off they check to see if everything is in order. The older, more experienced employees tend to get the position.
Greeting people is a way to make the scrutiny of an employee at the front door palpable.
Anyone that has not worked in a low-end job uses "Walmart Greeter" as a euphemism for worthless. So you are half right.
Re:Another reason by thoughtlover · 2016-07-12 05:41 · Score: 1

I thought the same, yet when that's done here, especially to the youth, it's seen as some sort of 'corporate indoctrination' that ends up locking people into a specific ecosystem.
Perhaps if they taught the main, two OSes -- I believe Swift is the new language Apple is pushing..? -- then maybe they'd get a little more respect. But, simply teaching how to code isn't teaching good design. UX seems to suffer, as well as privacy of app users.

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No sig for you! Come back one year!
Re:Another reason by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-12 06:00 · Score: 0

Bzzzzzzt!
1/4 of 4m = 1m.
+2m is an increase of 200% over 1m.
Re: Another reason by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-12 06:01 · Score: 0

trigglypuff.gif
Re: Another reason by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-12 07:02 · Score: 0

"There is demand for quality coders everywhere I look."
Precisely. Having yet more junior hacks from India won't impact that except positively.
I've had to deal with fairly large development projects outsourced to India twice now. We're still finding and cleaning up lingering garbage nearly a decade later on the one project that actually survived.
Something that shocked/saddened me (but that explained the problems we were seeing quite well) was a comment that one of the managers in the outsourcing company made to me: if you're at one of these outsourcing companies and you're still actually programming after a couple of years there (vs. "moving up into management") you're considered not dedicated / not committed / not serious / substandard.
So what you get is a constantly churning pool of inexperienced junior programmers that have to be led by the nose if you want any quality at all, and who will disappear at the point they're actually starting to learn and use good design and coding practices.
Never again.
Re: Another reason by desdinova+216 · 2016-07-12 07:11 · Score: 1

surely you can't be serious.
Re: Another reason by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-12 08:08 · Score: 0

yes! go to Brasil and get what you deserve hehehe
Re: Another reason by Areyoukiddingme · 2016-07-12 08:29 · Score: 1

Actually, there's a surplus because nobody wants to hire/pay for quality.
Even with total compensation packages hovering around $100k-$150k in the Midwest it can be hard to snipe top talent from other companies.
I already have a total compensation package over $100k in the Midwest. If you want to snipe me, you have to pay more than that, especially if you want to double my commute. Do you understand "more"? It means "not the same". I've already declined to pursue a $150k salary, nevermind the total package, just because it's not enough of a bump to make me lengthen my commute. Your package is "hovering". That's your problem right there. Push harder. We are worth literally millions to your company, and we know it.
Re:Another reason by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-12 08:43 · Score: 0

He was certainly more intelligent then the "native" "americans" since he managed to reach, in one piece, the new world from a far away land. Meanwhile "native" "americans" couldn't even write. Honestly the only dumb guy here is you. Now fuck off
Re: Another reason by ranton · 2016-07-12 09:29 · Score: 1

I already have a total compensation package over $100k in the Midwest. If you want to snipe me, you have to pay more than that, especially if you want to double my commute. Do you understand "more"? It means "not the same". I've already declined to pursue a $150k salary, nevermind the total package, just because it's not enough of a bump to make me lengthen my commute. Your package is "hovering". That's your problem right there. Push harder. We are worth literally millions to your company, and we know it.
I am completely with you on all points. I didn't mean to imply $150k in compensation was a ridiculously high amount, just that it is a very respectively high amount which is rarely high enough to poach top talent. It can be hard to convince management to pay higher than this for individual contributors.
I am not in a position (yet) where I get to set salaries for my coworkers, I only get to interview them and give recommendations. Like you I declined a just under $150k offer recently, but with it in hand started negotiations with my current company and got just under $160k (no threats, just used the extra security of the offer to push harder than normal).
Salaries are high enough now that career enhancement or just plain interesting projects tend to be a better draw than salary. I can honestly say there isn't much difference between $140k and $160k for me considering the diminishing returns of a higher salary. The 25 year old version of myself would be pissed at anyone who thought of a $20k raise as "meh", but here I am. I am now at a point of my career when I need to either move towards a VP level role, start consulting, or start my own company to see a much higher salary, although I've been wrong about that before.

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-- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
Re: Another reason by the_Bionic_lemming · 2016-07-12 09:30 · Score: 1

You're not the only one.
I have a 5 mile commute. After the construction gets done it's all past a golf course , a university, and then neighborhoods. 4 stop signs between my works parking lot and my front door.
I used to commute 50 miles one way for a higher paying job. Screw that noise.

--
_ _ _ Go for the eyes Boo! GO FOR THE EYES!
Re: Another reason by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-12 20:08 · Score: 0

"good one will do over 6 times of what the Indians will produce"
With that blanket statement, you're deriding all Indians - an ethnicity representing 1/6th of humanity. If you really believe an entire race produces substandard work, you are a racist. You cannot have the judgement necessary for quality decision making.
Re: Another reason by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-12 21:27 · Score: 0

Red Indians. They were always Red Indians when I was young. Yes they were usually slaughtered but they did have bows and arrows.
Re:Another reason by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-13 07:26 · Score: 0

Ha ha, that's rich.
Consider the USA very carefully:
You have killings.
Mobs.
Torture.
Unsafe water.
Corruption.
And at least one of your presidential nominees is a Total Nutjob!
So what's wrong with India exactly?
Let's see how I do...
Murder: In the US, there is the 2nd amendment right, enshrined in the Constitution, which gives everyone the right to own a gun (or, indeed, as many guns as they can buy). It's fair, everyone can have guns, even people who mow down defenseless children by the dozen. It's what the NRA wants.
Mobs: Admittedly, that is a problem, mobs generally don't behave rationally. Though most protests start out aimed at government groups or companies that are damaging their rights, rather than singling out and murdering individuals for perceived slights against a book they've read.
Torture: This, too, is a toughie. It was (is?) a program by the Bush administration and CIA to extract information from suspected terrorists. While morally and legally wrong, they at least tried to limit it to people who may have performed real world actions, rather than supernatural powers. If the witch floats, she's a witch, and if the witch drowns, she wasn't a witch?
Unsafe water: According to the Republican leaders, the EPA is in the way of business, so they've spent long years bleeding the EPA of ability to enforce the law, issue warnings and hold people accountable. That is a problem.
Corruption: Yep, the financial system is broken. Yep, the police are rarely held responsible for murdering people, destroying evidence, lying, et cetera.
Candidates: Our choices are horrible. We have a crazy, erratic liar who says whatever thought pops into his head and a consistent liar who is desperate to say whatever she thinks people want to hear as our only choices. But, at least neither of them have been implicated in the mass murder of thousands of their own constituents.
All in all, shitty as both places can be, the reality is still that a much better, safer life is still possible in the USA. Maybe not for long, but at least for your lifetime, maybe.
Re:Another reason by BarbaraHudson · 2016-07-14 12:00 · Score: 1

The topic of the article is Android developers. Not "ALL developers." That's the number that counts. Hiding it among the larger group just masks the reality. Kind of like misleading headlines and summaries.

--
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.

Of course they are by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 15:35 · Score: 1

No one in America needs a job, after all. Let's train up the cheaper people.

Re: Of course they are by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 16:17 · Score: 1

Just what the world needs. More second rate talent from the third world. Enough already.
Android will be unusable in a few years then because you'll never be able to sort through all the garbage applications.
Re: Of course they are by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 22:45 · Score: 0

Yes. Third world countries developing software for themselves. Thanks google for empowering.

I hear ancient ghostly echoes by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 15:35 · Score: 1

Developers, developers, developers

Re:I hear ancient ghostly echoes by Yvan256 · 2016-07-11 15:52 · Score: 1

Monkey see, monkey do.
Re:I hear ancient ghostly echoes by ArmoredDragon · 2016-07-11 17:02 · Score: 2

Well, I think training developers is probably a better idea than dancing around and shouting "developers" with the intent that it will start raining developers.
Re:I hear ancient ghostly echoes by Hognoxious · 2016-07-11 18:43 · Score: 1

Dewelopers.

--
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Re:I hear ancient ghostly echoes by PolygamousRanchKid+ · 2016-07-11 19:42 · Score: 1

Monkey see, monkey do.
Monkey tosses chair out the window . . . ?

--
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
Re:I hear ancient ghostly echoes by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-12 01:46 · Score: 0

Code Monkey have long walk back to cubicle
He sit down pretend to work
Code Monkey not thinking so straight
Code Monkey not feeling so great
Re:I hear ancient ghostly echoes by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-13 08:53 · Score: 0

Monkey see, monkey do.
Monkey fling monkey poo

Just what we need by NotQuiteReal · 2016-07-11 15:37 · Score: 3, Insightful

2 million MORE newbs who THINK they can program. And can post to the app store, um Play (yeah, because all my apps are a frolic).

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This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.

Re:Just what we need by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 15:47 · Score: 0

Very true.

Most "developers" in India only paid for a degree from a paper mill. They can't do much without a script.
Re: Just what we need by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 15:56 · Score: 0

Exactly, they are terrible coders btw
Re:Just what we need by hcs_$reboot · 2016-07-11 18:08 · Score: 1

2 million MORE newbs who THINK they can program
Not really. That's Google. They will train 2 M people, then keep the better 5% to develop applications.

--
Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
Re:Just what we need by gweihir · 2016-07-11 20:55 · Score: 1

Indeed. More bad code from bad coders. We already have more than enough of both.

--
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
Re: Just what we need by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 23:37 · Score: 0

Stinky coders produce stinky code. Film at 11.
Re:Just what we need by BarbaraHudson · 2016-07-12 02:52 · Score: 1

Google wants people to believe otherwise. This is NOT the same as Google believing otherwise. It's just another way to get more people to buy Chromebooks and Android phones.

--
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
Re:Just what we need by gweihir · 2016-07-12 04:18 · Score: 1

At least that is the best possible explanation so far.

--
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.

Uh huh.... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 15:48 · Score: 4, Insightful

So much for white privilege. Last time I checked, my account had no white privilege deposit. Our tech companies are giving the farm away to the Indians, Vietnamese, Chinese, and anyone else who will work for shit wages. Google and its ilk are driving down the salaries for IT workers in the literal race to zero. What with everyone replacing their workers with robotics, the BS $15 fast food wages about to kill those jobs, the US is rapidly becoming a 3rd-world taco stand with semi-decent pizza.

I live in TX and, as an example, if you "wanted" to work construction here, no one would hire you--because your white. Ditto the farms, agriculture biz, fast food, you name it. Texas land owners as well as Texas businesses prefer to hire Mexicans--illegal or otherwise for work. Drive by any gas station on a weekday morning and there are dozens of Mexicans waiting around for the white man to come and collect them in pickup trucks to go and do their thing.

I was thinking of starting a lawn care business, but it's impossible because the Mexicans have driven down the prices to what a white guy cannot live on. It's easy for them to live compared to us because they are willing to live in shit conditions and 8-10 in an apartment or tiny house. Who the hell want to live with their extended family? I sure as hell don't.

I work in IT in Texas--Houston area--and IT sucks here. All of the oil and gas companies have laid off so many IT people, they are now competing for the crappy jobs that remain. IT pays little here compared to other places. Austin is an IT hub, but the traffic sucks worse than Houston, it's more expensive and it's a hipster enclave.

I've been in IT across 3 decades and I'm seriously considering getting out, but I have no damn clue what to do since IT is all I know.

Re:Uh huh.... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 15:51 · Score: 3, Funny

You have a great future in whining.
Re:Uh huh.... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 16:02 · Score: 0

You've got a great future in salad,tossing.
Re:Uh huh.... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 16:03 · Score: 0

You make jokes...but he's right.
Re:Uh huh.... by OzPeter · 2016-07-11 16:17 · Score: 3, Interesting

Texas land owners as well as Texas businesses prefer to hire Mexicans--illegal or otherwise for work. Drive by any gas station on a weekday morning and there are dozens of Mexicans waiting around for the white man to come and collect them in pickup trucks to go and do their thing.
There's your self entitlement for you. Thinking that you can hire illegals and day workers for the cheapest price so that you benefit the most, but screw what it does to your local economy.

I was thinking of starting a lawn care business, but it's impossible because the Mexicans have driven down the prices to what a white guy cannot live on. It's easy for them to live compared to us because they are willing to live in shit conditions and 8-10 in an apartment or tiny house. Who the hell want to live with their extended family? I sure as hell don't.
And it strikes again. You have this belief that you are above living with an extended family. No matter that for 99% of humanities existence, and for 99% of the rest of the world that's just the way it is. But no, your'e too good for that.

I work in IT in Texas--Houston area--and IT sucks here. All of the oil and gas companies have laid off so many IT people, they are now competing for the crappy jobs that remain. IT pays little here compared to other places. Austin is an IT hub, but the traffic sucks worse than Houston, it's more expensive and it's a hipster enclave.
More judgmental complaining. Don't people have a right to be a hipster if they wish?

I've been in IT across 3 decades and I'm seriously considering getting out, but I have no damn clue what to do since IT is all I know.
You have a connection to most fantastic library in the entire history of the world, a truly wondrous trove of information, yet you have no clue who you really are or what you want to do. And that is your fundamental problem. You have no idea who you are. Perhaps you should take time for some introspection.

--
I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
Re:Uh huh.... by arglebargle_xiv · 2016-07-11 16:32 · Score: 4, Funny

You have a great future in whining.
So maybe go work in Napa Valley somewhere? There are lots of little lifestyle whineries there.
Re:Uh huh.... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 16:34 · Score: 0

It's like you want to drag everyone down to the same level as subhuman Pajeets.
Re:Uh huh.... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 16:53 · Score: 1

I cannot control what land and company owners have done since before I was born.
Living with an extended family is not a western concept. Men and women are expected to marry, raise a family, and support same on their own. There are variations on this for reasons such as medical need, special situations, etc., but for the most part, western norms dictate. I've been around the world--literally--and I don't envy the people I've seen. The only decent places I've seen outside the US are Japan, Australia, UK, Canada. Everywhere else I've been, Asia, Mexico, and South America in particular are squalid, hot, and just no, thank you. We go to college and become educated to avoid manual labor, to rise above living in shit conditions. I'm sorry, but I really don't care what the world does. I care about my wife and kids. They deserve to live as decently as I can provide so their futures will be/should be better than mine. I should have pursued an advanced degree, but didn't. Couldn't afford it.
I'm not so much judgemental as I am observant. The hipster thing has ruined Austin and so many other cities. Austin used to be "Texan". Now? It's a dope-smoking enclave of "young" people with no jobs, no hope--people sucking on mom and dad's teats still--and they're in their late 20s and early 30s.
You're right. I have no fucking clue who I am. I grew up in a culture that was neither my dad's or my mothers. We moved over 10 times between my birth and my graduating high school. My parents are from different countries and cultures and I'm different yet. I know nothing since university other than IT. I made a great living in the 90s, 00s, and up until a few years ago when the h-1B visas started radically driving down salaries. I admit I'm stuck. I'm 40, married, two kids, I cannot take on any debt, I can barely afford my health insurance. I'm honestly considering moving abroad for a better opportunity since my wife is medical, she can work anywhere, and she has a particular set of skills that are in high demand everywhere.
Re:Uh huh.... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 19:23 · Score: 0

You sir are truly a comedic genius. Kudos....
Re:Uh huh.... by TheGratefulNet · 2016-07-11 21:30 · Score: 4, Interesting

I predict and fully expect to see a rise in american 'terrorism', where americans have been out of work long enough to lose thier homes and feel that they have nothing left so 'fuck it, I'm going on a rampage'.
god help us all once this eventually happens. google and the rest all have the police in their pockets and anyone trying to rush the google campus will get the full riot police on thier asses, but when you have nothing left, you have nothing left to lose. hell, I've been close to that point, myself, feeling quite abandoned by my american 'brothers' who are running the US companies into the ground.
keep depressing local wages and sending jobs overseas. keep it up. you WILL create more locals who want to see you die.
or, maybe start thinking about easing off the outsourcing and h1b's and put americans (who really need and deserve jobs) back to work in a living wage again.
your choice. we rush your gates or you keep us fed.
give it 5-10 more years and this will be on the news.

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"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
Re:Uh huh.... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 22:52 · Score: 0

don't you know?
For the purposes of *this* discussion - Asians are considered white as well. In fact, the fact they make 5% MORE than whites in America is only to be dismissed as the fact they work harder than white people.
Of course, white people couldn't possibly earn more than other races, because they work harder. Nope, privilege all the way up. Oh, and racism. And cops.
And asians, they NEVER faced any sort of systemic racism. Or camps. Or any sort of hardship. Nor did the Jews. Nope, the blacks (and sometimes hispanics) are the only ones. Totally.
Re:Uh huh.... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-12 00:57 · Score: 0

The nation state is dead. It serves no purpose other than keep you as chattle.
Re:Uh huh.... by BlueStrat · 2016-07-12 01:07 · Score: 1

I'm honestly considering moving abroad for a better opportunity since my wife is medical, she can work anywhere, and she has a particular set of skills that are in high demand everywhere.
You might be surprised at how valuable your American IT skills and experience are in some places outside the US. You might be able to find a place where both you and your spouse's skills pay well enough to make you relatively well-off by local standards and not-impoverished even by US standards.
If you do not renounce US citizenship you'll still be paying US income taxes and possibly others I'm unaware of. Renouncing US citizenship now requires a $2500USD (IIRC) payment and clearance checks against any tax debts or legal obligations/warrants/etc plus checks against the various TLA lists (both those we're aware of and those we're still unaware of).
Strat

--
Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
Re:Uh huh.... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-12 01:37 · Score: 0

Are you blind? These rampages are already happening. But Google et. al. have nothing to worry about. Poor, non-whites will bear the brunt of this rage, just like they always have in America.
Re:Uh huh.... by wisnoskij · 2016-07-12 01:39 · Score: 1

They might not have the police in their pocket much longer. The way things are going, the race war is starting now, and the police don't seem like they are willing to stick their neck out much longer.

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Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
Re:Uh huh.... by Ol+Olsoc · 2016-07-12 01:57 · Score: 4, Insightful

There's your self entitlement for you. Thinking that you can hire illegals and day workers for the cheapest price so that you benefit the most, but screw what it does to your local economy.
And therin lies the strangest set of paradoxes you will ever find. The people who follow the presumed head of the anti-immigration movement and his plan to make another country build a wall in order to keep them out are likely to be the ones harmed by immigrant workers.
As well, this people are convinced that we need a business leader to fix this problem, when businesses are the cause of the problem.
As well, there is a remarkably simple way to cut way back on illegal immigrants at very little cost. If a business owner is caught hiring illegals to do the business they are doing, toss their sorry ass in jail. We're Americans - its what we do to support the incarceration industry.
If illegal immigrants have no possibility of getting work and money here in the USA, and if anyone hiring one catches a felony and prison time, it will go a long way towards taking care of that problem. And a few business owners in prison are a lot cheaper than walling off the US.

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The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Re:Uh huh.... by Ol+Olsoc · 2016-07-12 01:58 · Score: 1

It's like you want to drag everyone down to the same level as subhuman Pajeets.
Q. What's a Pajeet?
A. Anything they want.

--
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Re:Uh huh.... by Ol+Olsoc · 2016-07-12 02:08 · Score: 1

I predict and fully expect to see a rise in american 'terrorism', where americans have been out of work long enough to lose thier homes and feel that they have nothing left so 'fuck it, I'm going on a rampage'.
god help us all once this eventually happens.

I suspect that in the not too distant future, we will see a reverse brain drain as Americans find more opportunities in other countries than at their former home. This will be great as long as you are competent enough.
For many people, the future looks pretty bleak, as we are not in the pecuniary extraction of wealth phase of the country, and don't appear to be doing anything about it.

--
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Re:Uh huh.... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-12 02:10 · Score: 0

Family believes I'm a shapeshifting demon from the burning hells who murdered their unborn grandchildren by being t3h g4y. I would have loved to have saved up a bit, but nope! Get your worthless ass out of my house! Spent a while homeless. Now I'm a homeowner.
Personally that's not really what I want, though. Of course, who wants what they actually have? I don't know. Being a homeowner just isn't for me. An owner, certainly. Maybe I'll get a condo. I'm tied down to a shit city in flyover country that doesn't have any decent paying jobs that last more than a year. Seen people I know get chewed up and spit out after pulling in 60k-80k in a year. They're now poorer than I am because I at least grabbed a very stable opportunity when it came my way even if it didn't pay the best.
You're essentially on the nose about GP. His solution is staring him right in the face, and I feel it has very little to do with the color of his skin or which language he speaks. If he wants to get into lawn care, then he's going to have to live like the people who are in lawn care. It's not complicated.
However, how can you blame him? He wishes he could live like his parents did, and he'll never be able to because that generation was a bunch of selfish twats who fucked us over with Reaganomics. Wages have been completely stagnant since Reagan, but the GDP keeps going up, up, up, and away!
I realize that yeah, for less than the cost of a month's rent in the cheapest apartment I've ever lived in, I have a supercomputer in my pocket. The reason I bought a home was because I realized that the issue is that things are cheaper than ever and they're just going to keep getting cheaper with one big exception: living space. My ex-parents were idiots who rented and then tried to blame me when I turned out g4y for their lack of money. Those dipshits didn't understand how the real world and ownership works. If you pay rent every month, you end up with no wealth at the end of the day.
This is what we're seeing in the USA. 30-ish years of failed economic policy is coming home to roost. The previous generation were sacks of shit who took everything for granted. All those fucking renters are finding out that they own no wealth at all. So now we have Trump. They're doubling down on the stupid, so they've chosen a man who's the best, fantastic, the best, I know a lot of bullshitters, a lot of very good bullshitters, a lot of very, very good con men, but Trump is the best! Well, my ex-parents wanted Cruz, but whatever. Just a different brand of stupid. None of them can hear the professors at the school of hard knocks giving out lessons about how the real world works over the easy lives they were handed.
So, that's the real problem here. The USA is a nation of renters and debtors, and they were too busy living it up that way instead of creating generational wealth. Prepare to bend over and kiss your ass goodbye, because things are going to get a whole hell of a lot worse before they get better.
The walk to the gas station will be for your own good.
Re:Uh huh.... by fustakrakich · 2016-07-12 02:37 · Score: 1

So much for white privilege.
Oh really? Maybe you should check who owns the land and businesses that do the hiring...

--
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
Re:Uh huh.... by macs4all · 2016-07-12 03:16 · Score: 1

Renouncing US citizenship now requires a $2500USD (IIRC) payment
How in the FUCK can a country make me PAY to stop being a Citizen? That CANNOT be legal, and it sure as HELL isn't Constitutional!
Re:Uh huh.... by AmiMoJo · 2016-07-12 04:08 · Score: 1

I wonder if you could start a "fair trade" business, like that "fair trade" food where they promise to pay the farmers a reasonable price. Promise to pay your staff a living wage and see if people are willing to pay a bit extra for that service. You could probably offer a slightly better service too, since your staff will be healthier, not working two or three jobs and more invested in making the company succeed.

--
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Re:Uh huh.... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-12 05:01 · Score: 0

That's prisoner's dilemma, though. Each rich person benefits from offshoring, even though they're all worse off from the practice. And the 1% will just leave the country when the buffers start getting shot.
Re:Uh huh.... by HornWumpus · 2016-07-12 06:04 · Score: 1

The alternative is just never come back and tell the IRS to pound sand.
If you do come back after that, it can be ugly.

--
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Re:Uh huh.... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-12 06:15 · Score: 0

> the Mexicans have driven down the prices to what a white guy cannot live on
prices you DON'T WANT to live on. If one human can do it another human probably can. This is what Americans get for parrotting competition and free markets for the last 60 years. You get competition and it turns out it's not so great as you sold it. And yeah, your best bet is quitting IT, buying as cheap a place as you can near a gas station and renting to cost-efficient mexican illegals. Eventually other people will learn to live at their standards and immigration won't be a problem anymore.
Re:Uh huh.... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-12 06:57 · Score: 0

I'm from Houston as well and noticed the poor IT conditions in the early 2000s. My answer? I moved away. Far. I'm near DC now and loving my job and the prospects, but family is still in Houston. I tell myself the only way I'll move back is if I can find a sweet gig in Austin or San Antonio. I don't even bother looking in Houston, really.
Re:Uh huh.... by BlueStrat · 2016-07-12 10:55 · Score: 1

Renouncing US citizenship now requires a $2500USD (IIRC) payment

How in the FUCK can a country make me PAY to stop being a Citizen? That CANNOT be legal, and it sure as HELL isn't Constitutional!
Ha! They can because they have many large angry men with guns that enforce their will despite anything written on some old piece of parchment.
We're lucky they still let people leave the US at all! The virtual Berlin Wall around the US keeps getting higher and higher as more and more people and businesses flee the US which is rapidly approaching banana-republic status regarding individual rights & freedom (and tax rates), as well as Rule of Law (some animals are more equal than others).
Strat

--
Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.

Is this available to the US also? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 15:52 · Score: 5, Insightful

We are the ones providing all the tax breaks for google to make its billions, so now we not only import people for jobs that supposedly cant be filled, but we are now providing training to those people taking jobs away from people who are already employed here in the States? I hate apple, but I think this may just convince me to switch. I see no reason to pay for the right to cost someone else their job.

Re:Is this available to the US also? by OhPlz · 2016-07-11 17:35 · Score: 1, Insightful

How is Apple any better? They produce jobs in China. I think they started the whole "designed in America" thing so that people could somehow feel like they give a shit about the country they're headquartered in. If you think any global corporation cares about the little people, you're sorely mistaken.
Ironically, if Trump wins, we'll probably see more of this. If you can't import cheap labor, you can export the jobs.
Re:Is this available to the US also? by backslashdot · 2016-07-11 18:57 · Score: 1, Funny

Wow, you seek to deny knowledge to people? You have access to this course too. Nobody is entitled to a job. If you want welfare then tax Google's profits and get your money that way.
Re:Is this available to the US also? by backslashdot · 2016-07-11 18:59 · Score: 1

Dude, Google doesn't owe anyone a job. If you want money from them, then tax them. Tax their profits and get your money that way .. it's better for everyone.
Re:Is this available to the US also? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 19:08 · Score: 0

Yes it's available in the US, and it's in English btw so no excuses. I am amazed you cant google for 5 seconds to find it, and then you complain that a dude who has never seen a computer in his life can compete with you? https://www.udacity.com/course...
And yes it's a FREE course.
Re:Is this available to the US also? by PolygamousRanchKid+ · 2016-07-11 19:59 · Score: 2

I think they started the whole "designed in America" thing so that people could somehow feel like they give a shit about the country they're headquartered in.
Actually, I bought a Harmon Kardon receiver/amplifier back in the 1970's . . . and it had that same statement stamped on the back . . . "designed in America".
So this Schtick is not new to me . . .

--
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
Re:Is this available to the US also? by angel'o'sphere · 2016-07-11 21:08 · Score: 1, Flamebait

Wake up! ... I think they started the whole "designed in America" ...
The economy, world wide, is transforming into a "knowledge" economy since decades.
Smart workers are "knowledge workers". Obviously manual labour gets outsourced. Was always that way, or where does your oil, coal, minerals, even food come from?
Colonialism and Imperialism was nothing other than somehow getting cheap wares from "cheap countries".
I for my part have no problem teaching dozens of Indians how to "code". To get my experience they have to work in the job as long as I did ... so probably 35 years to go for everyone I teach. And as long as they produce Apps, Applications that are useful for me, what is the damn problem?
Obviously none of you are producing useful Apps/Applications for me. Hm ... or are you?
Where does this Angst come from?
India is a great back packer tourist area. They are for some reason a completely underdeveloped country regarding tourism (sure some big travel agencies organize you round trips from hotel to hotel to sight seeing spots) ... why don't you try a win win? Go there, live cheap, work via internet, help them with education, earn some money meanwhile, buy some property, settle down.
Oh, in your perception a third world country is stealing your jobs ...
You know, Europe has an "immigration problem" with millions of refugees coming from the "middle east", especially german neo Nazis, unemployed (half their fault), no education (their fault) ...
There is an advertizement, on TV sometimes, by EU human right groups:

-- If you think --
A refugee from a third world country:
Who does not speak your language
Who has no money
Who has no friends here
Who has no family here
Who has no right to have a job here ...
is stealing your job
is stealing your wife
is stealing your girl friend ...
then you probably have to accept that you are "just shit"?
Yeah, that was a bit off topic. Concerns Europe as well as the USA.
On the other hand, even more off topic:
You can't adapt to slightly change in global economy? Designing HW in the USA, manufacturing it in China? buying german cars? However /. is full with comments, mainly from americans when we talk about global warming: mankind will adapt!!
As far as I can tell: to an economical change everyone can adapt. Just join the "winning side". To environmental changes it is much much more difficult.
BTW: I really wonder how spotify and pandora make money when you can listen to www.protonradio.com/ all day and night long.

--
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
Re:Is this available to the US also? by TheGratefulNet · 2016-07-11 21:10 · Score: 4, Interesting

strongly disagree, people of your own country ARE ENTITLED to jobs IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY.
the fact that you don't get this, its very telling, indeed.
the whole POINT of a country is to protect and give pref treatment to the people who grew up there, paid taxes all their lives, have invested in that place and often, their parents were from there and their kids will stay there.
yes, I, who grew up here in the US, demand to have first right of jobs over some foreigner who did nothing for the US, and in fact, won't do anything for the US once they take their money away and return home, later on.
I have more right to american jobs than indians who were not born here do. they are arrogant AS FUCK, thinking they really do have as much rights as the locals do.
let me turn it around: if I were to move to india, would I - and should I - expect the same rights as locals? of course not!
get real, indians. you don't deserve more rights or even the same rights as those who are invested here and who are part of this country, for the long-run. long after you leave, the rest of us will still be here, picking up the pieces you left behind.
you bet we have a right to jobs ahead of you. the fact that you don't see it proves the point even more how much you DO NOT UNDERSTAND what america is about.

--

--
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
Re:Is this available to the US also? by Required+Snark · 2016-07-11 22:44 · Score: 3

Google should be forced to register as the agent of a foreign government. When they make that level of commitment to India (or anywhere else) they are exploiting their privileged position in the US at the expense of the people and economy here. They take all the government support, tax breaks (which they get by lobbying) and legal advantages of being based in the US and effectively transfer wealth to India to improve their bottom line. Short of industrial spying it's hard to be any more aggressive about putting the interests of one country above another.
Of course IBM is way ahead if them in this regard. A few years ago they quit reporting the number of people employed per country. That's a clear sign they know they have something to hide.
Here's an idea: US companies that have overseas branches have to report the number of employees the have in all the countries they do business (roll in consultants as well). Make exemptions for smaller firms, or companies that take no US tax deductions or other government assistance. It's an impossible dilemma for companies that are trying to have it both ways. Do they give up all the subsidies, both direct and by tax tricks, or do they have to admit that they are parasites?
If this was put forward in legislation American business interests would squeal like stuck pigs. They want to grab as much as they can from the public coffers without having to admit anything or face any consequence. They figure, correctly, that as long as they can keep the public in the dark about how they play this rigged game that they can get away with almost anything.
And if you think this is bad, just wait for the TPP to kick in. If it does happen, US employment figures will be dropping by multiple percentage point on a quarterly basis. It might take a few years to get that bad, but considering it is primarily intended to move jobs overseas no one should be surprised. This is exactly what happens when greedy self serving corporate interest run amok. Under the hood it's just like the 2008 economic meltdown. In that case Wall Street had no effective oversight on real estate lending and almost took down the entire world economy. With the TPP the corporate class is now negotiating international trade policy solely for it's own profit. It is entirely likely that this next folly will make 2008 look like a walk in the park compared to the antipersonnel cluster bomb that is the TPP.

--
Why is Snark Required?
Re:Is this available to the US also? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 23:59 · Score: 0

Google is an Irish company, don't'cha know?
Re:Is this available to the US also? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-12 00:53 · Score: 0

Dude, Google doesn't owe anyone a job.
Actually the owe a lot of jobs to the US. They constantly complain they can't find the skills in the US and that's the reason why they need more visas, and yet they turn around and do this dick move? They should be denied any more visa requests from here on.
Re:Is this available to the US also? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-12 01:32 · Score: 0

Can't, they've hidden all their profits overseas just like every other big corporation. Also, they fund the politicians just like every other big corporation.
Re:Is this available to the US also? by Ol+Olsoc · 2016-07-12 02:21 · Score: 1

the fact that you don't see it proves the point even more how much you DO NOT UNDERSTAND what america is about.
America is only about the people who originally settled here?
Perhaps you and your family need to pack up and go back to where you came from, because at base, you are an immigrant. Because unless you are 100 percent Amerind, you're are an immigrant and born of immigrants. Disclaimer - ethnic slurs included merely for shock value, and the likelyhood that the poster actually uses those terms.
Anyhow dear anti-immigrant person, if you actually want to eliminate these great unwashed from taking your jerb, agitate for making it illegal to hire one. And enforce it on the business owner. A good old tough on crime minimum penalty of 5 years. You'll see illegal immigrants drop to a mere trickle as the actual cause of illegal immigration dries up, which is the fact that they can get jerbs in the first place.

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The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Re:Is this available to the US also? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-12 02:43 · Score: 0

we don't give a f***.. suck it up, this is the future..
Re:Is this available to the US also? by BarbaraHudson · 2016-07-12 02:54 · Score: 1

As far as I can tell: to an economical change everyone can adapt. Just join the "winning side".
Tell that to the people in food riots in Venezuela.

--
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
Re:Is this available to the US also? by waveclaw · 2016-07-12 02:55 · Score: 1

yes, I, who grew up here in the US, demand to have first right of jobs over some foreigner who did nothing for the US, and in fact, won't do anything for the US once they take their money away and return home, later on.
The solution to this is very simple: end the H1-B visa program. Replace it with a program that lets you import a worker temporarily to do work only if (a) the employeer cannot find someone with the skills to do that job (b) willing-to-work-for-ramen level pay cannot be a consideration as a skill (c) that employee must actively train a native or green card holder in that skill. Set a deadline for replacing that worker with the native worker. Make the employeer pay both people at the same time.
When you are in business for the money that's the only thing you'll care about. Tariffs aren't just for products. Making that the H1-B "replacement" always costs much more than just hiring and training a citizen then your government is actively protecting and investing in the people that created that government to protect and invest in them. As long as your elected government creates and supports a system of cheap labor importation those employers who can take advantage of the cheap price will.

--

"You cannot have a General Will unless you have shared experiences. You cannot be fair to people you don't know."
Re:Is this available to the US also? by backslashdot · 2016-07-12 03:19 · Score: 1

Why should Google be forced to hire you? Pretty soon you will ask for computers and robots to be dismantled so that you can have a job. Get welfare, stop forcing companies to be your slave. If you want their money, tax them.
Re:Is this available to the US also? by angel'o'sphere · 2016-07-12 03:24 · Score: 1

That is probably a very bad example :D
Point is if X is replacing your job, become an X, or move on elsewhere.

--
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
Re:Is this available to the US also? by macs4all · 2016-07-12 03:25 · Score: 1

How is Apple any better? They produce jobs in China. I think they started the whole "designed in America" thing so that people could somehow feel like they give a shit about the country they're headquartered in. If you think any global corporation cares about the little people, you're sorely mistaken.
Ironically, if Trump wins, we'll probably see more of this. If you can't import cheap labor, you can export the jobs.
Apple has been putting "Designed in California, U.S.A." on their products since I can remember. It is not some new "Schtick".
Re:Is this available to the US also? by TFlan91 · 2016-07-12 03:40 · Score: 1

> picking up the pieces you left behind
HA! Already doing that. These guys can't code for shit.
Re:Is this available to the US also? by AmiMoJo · 2016-07-12 03:48 · Score: 1

yes, I, who grew up here in the US, demand to have first right of jobs over some foreigner who did nothing for the US, and in fact, won't do anything for the US once they take their money away and return home, later on.
At some point in your past, your family were immigrants too. Had they been treated the way you propose, pushed the back of the queue for jobs and everything else, they might have given up and gone home too.
You could extend your argument to advocate 18 years olds having next to no rights either, having not had the opportunity to contribute tax or much to society. At least they should have less right to jobs than older people, who have paid into the system all their lives, right?

let me turn it around: if I were to move to india, would I - and should I - expect the same rights as locals? of course not!
For the most part, yes you should. There is some stuff that you don't get right away, like permanent residency rights, but in terms of pay, employment rights, access to services and resources then yes, yes you should be treated the same way.

--
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Re:Is this available to the US also? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-12 04:51 · Score: 0

'MERICA, BUCK YEA'!!
Re:Is this available to the US also? by TheSync · 2016-07-12 05:14 · Score: 1

Google, Inc. doesn't have any employees in India. Google India Private Limited , a subsidiary of Google, Inc., does.
Re:Is this available to the US also? by chihowa · 2016-07-12 05:18 · Score: 1

You're (deliberately?) conflating guest worker programs with immigration. Immigrants, even illegal immigrants, intend to stay in a country and therefore gain some ownership of that country. Guest workers arrive to collect some money then go back to the place that they truly feel allegiance to.
The GP wasn't entirely clear in his tirade, but he seemed to be talking about guest workers and not immigrants. The very concept of guest worker programs is problematic for every party involved and shouldn't be nearly as commonly used as they are. Indeed, outside of the US they're much more rarely used.

--
If you want a vision of the future, imagine a youtube comments section scrolling - forever.
Re:Is this available to the US also? by chihowa · 2016-07-12 05:22 · Score: 1

I posted another comment on this upthread, but his tirade seemed to be focused on guest workers and not immigrants (as evidenced by, "...won't do anything for the US once they take their money away and return home, later on").
Immigrants have some implied ownership of a country once they express a sincere desire to remain there and especially once they've obtained citizenship. Guest workers are just that, guests, and shouldn't be treated as if they have equal stake in a country's affairs.

--
If you want a vision of the future, imagine a youtube comments section scrolling - forever.
Re:Is this available to the US also? by Ol+Olsoc · 2016-07-12 05:29 · Score: 1

You're (deliberately?) conflating guest worker programs with immigration. Immigrants, even illegal immigrants, intend to stay in a country and therefore gain some ownership of that country. Guest workers arrive to collect some money then go back to the place that they truly feel allegiance to.
The GP wasn't entirely clear in his tirade, but he seemed to be talking about guest workers and not immigrants. The very concept of guest worker programs is problematic for every party involved and shouldn't be nearly as commonly used as they are. Indeed, outside of the US they're much more rarely used.
Allow me to clear that up - as he wrote:
let me turn it around: if I were to move to india, would I - and should I - expect the same rights as locals? of course not!
That pretty well sums up the context. Because it would be strange indeed to move to a country with no expectation of ever getting a job. You'd starve soon. Guest Workers have a job before they ever move. Therefore he is saying that immigrants in any form should not get jobs, or at least not expect to get one by the rights of the native citizens.
The amusing thing about that is that would eliminate most people who are worried about immigrants. America is built of immigrants. Most of the natives are confined to reservations.

--
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Re:Is this available to the US also? by chihowa · 2016-07-12 08:39 · Score: 1

For the sake of clarity, his stance appears to be all over the place:
...some foreigner who did nothing for the US, and in fact, won't do anything for the US once they take their money away and return home, later on..
...you don't deserve more rights or even the same rights as those who are invested here and who are part of this country, for the long-run. long after you leave, the rest of us will still be here, picking up the pieces you left behind.
Being anti-immigrant, especially anti legal immigrant, in the US is pretty ridiculous but having issues with the abuse of guest worker programs is not ridiculous. I don't mean to defend his post, whatever it was he was trying to say. I just don't like the constant use of the term "immigration" to describe the importation of temporary guest workers. It's often deliberately used to label critics of these programs as racist or hypocritically anti-immigrant and shut the debate down early. I realize now that you weren't trying to do that and I apologize for the accusation.

--
If you want a vision of the future, imagine a youtube comments section scrolling - forever.
Re:Is this available to the US also? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-12 08:42 · Score: 0

I'm pretty sure he isn't talking about people permanently immigrating here, but people come here for a few years, then leave.

yes, I, who grew up here in the US, demand to have first right of jobs over some foreigner who did nothing for the US, and in fact, won't do anything for the US once they take their money away and return home, later on.

Irrespective of whether or not you agree with his general sentiment, being able to read is a key component in understanding it
Re:Is this available to the US also? by Ol+Olsoc · 2016-07-12 09:06 · Score: 1

I'm pretty sure he isn't talking about people permanently immigrating here, but people come here for a few years, then leave.

yes, I, who grew up here in the US, demand to have first right of jobs over some foreigner who did nothing for the US, and in fact, won't do anything for the US once they take their money away and return home, later on.
Irrespective of whether or not you agree with his general sentiment, being able to read is a key component in understanding it
I would say the same to you. As another posted, he's using many different angles to the point where the only thing clear is that he doesn'r like foreigners very much.
Meantime, perhaps the problem isn't my comprehension of his reading as you seem to suggest, but his ability to forge a few coherent paragraphs.
I know - go fuck myself.

--
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Re:Is this available to the US also? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-12 19:45 · Score: 0

We could also build gas chambers. That idea is going to gain a lot of traction in the coming years.
Re:Is this available to the US also? by Ol+Olsoc · 2016-07-13 01:56 · Score: 1

We could also build gas chambers. That idea is going to gain a lot of traction in the coming years.
Good old Hate. It always works as a motivator in the short run. Then in the long term, it always eats itself.

--
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Re:Is this available to the US also? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-13 09:38 · Score: 0

This is a complete strawman argument. America is about the CITIZENS. Indian H1-B workers, by definition, are NOT citizens. These are people who will not be staying in america as once their employement is over, they have one week to leave the country.
Re:Is this available to the US also? by BarbaraHudson · 2016-07-14 11:53 · Score: 1

That is probably a very bad example :D
Point is if X is replacing your job, become an X, or move on elsewhere.
Kind of hard when "X" is a robot that can work 4 times as many hours as you, never get bored or sick or pregnant or have a family member get sick or die, does what it's told, no lunch breaks, and if you don't need it any more you can sell it and recoup some of your investment.

--
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.

1, 2... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 15:56 · Score: 0

One little, two little, three little Indians, four little five little six little indians, um, seven? uhh, what were we talking about?

As an American this is way too math-intense for me to understand.

Good enough is always by rsilvergun · 2016-07-11 15:58 · Score: 1

good enough. Especially at slave labor prices. And with so few jobs thanks to automation and productivity gains we'll be falling over ourselves to see who can make the few at the top the happiest. Ever read old books from the last turn of the century? Ever notice that everybody had servants? Ever wonder why?

--
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/

To hell with you, Google! by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 16:02 · Score: 1, Insightful

Don't expect Americans to waste their time learning and coding for Android if you're going to flood the market with cheap coders.

Re:To hell with you, Google! by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 17:37 · Score: 0

Why would they care who is code-clapping apps? Google gets their cut from app sales not from selling dev tools.
Re:To hell with you, Google! by angel'o'sphere · 2016-07-11 21:14 · Score: 1

No one is expecting anything.
However the "new economy" makes it possible that everyone on the planet can invest his most valuable "currency" and write an App, sell it via an "app store" and probably can live from it.
The most valuable currency is: time
An indian developer is in no way cheaper than an american one.
In the same way an Indian developer can get a "high payed" job in the USA (for example), everyone can get a high pay (by developing Apps) and live cheap in India ... oooops ... never occurred to you?

--
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
Re:To hell with you, Google! by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-13 08:00 · Score: 0

No one is expecting anything.
However the "new economy" makes it possible that everyone on the planet can invest his most valuable "currency" and write an App, sell it via an "app store" and probably can live from it.
The most valuable currency is: time
An indian developer is in no way cheaper than an american one.
In the same way an Indian developer can get a "high payed" job in the USA (for example), everyone can get a high pay (by developing Apps) and live cheap in India ... oooops ... never occurred to you?
Heh. Never going to forget the time my employer tried a team of $10 an hour Indian offshore programmers to do the job of us $50 Americans. Thing is, the company's product is....... health insurance.
You can teach people how to program, but try teaching somebody who has never lived here what constitutes the American health care system that every grown American implicitly takes for granted.
Re:To hell with you, Google! by gzuckier · 2016-07-13 08:07 · Score: 1

No one is expecting anything.
However the "new economy" makes it possible that everyone on the planet can invest his most valuable "currency" and write an App, sell it via an "app store" and probably can live from it.
The most valuable currency is: time
An indian developer is in no way cheaper than an american one.
In the same way an Indian developer can get a "high payed" job in the USA (for example), everyone can get a high pay (by developing Apps) and live cheap in India ... oooops ... never occurred to you?
Like the Dilbert strip where Wally gets fired, then shows up the next day wandering around with his coffee mug, in his bathrobe, and tells everyone "My job got outsourced to India, so I applied for the same job at the outsourcing firm and got it because my experience fit the job, and they are all telecommuters, and I got a pay differential to cover differences in living expenses", So Dilbert asks him a question, and Wally says "Not now, these are our night hours"

--
Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.

if they would fit them with typewriters, by serbanp · 2016-07-11 16:03 · Score: 3, Insightful

they would create a new Shakespeare play in no time at all. Better than coding.

Re:if they would fit them with typewriters, by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 16:13 · Score: 0

Och, now you made me snort my Coke.
Re:if they would fit them with typewriters, by arglebargle_xiv · 2016-07-11 16:34 · Score: 1, Interesting

they would create a new Shakespeare play in no time at all. Better than coding.
Having had to unravel (well, more like throw out and rewrite) code that had been outsourced to Indian contractors, that goes some way to explaining how they seem to write code over there.
Re:if they would fit them with typewriters, by SeaFox · 2016-07-11 17:52 · Score: 1

Was waiting for the "monkeys at typewriters joke" (and not in a racist style).
Was not disappointed.
Re: if they would fit them with typewriters, by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 18:25 · Score: 0

Was waiting for the Reddit joke. Was not dissapointed.
Re:if they would fit them with typewriters, by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 19:10 · Score: 0

The known saying refers to monkeys, though. This doesn't thereby allude to it, in a racist way?
Re:if they would fit them with typewriters, by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 22:44 · Score: 0

The known saying refers to monkeys, though. This doesn't thereby allude to it, in a racist way?
How is making a monkey joke about monkeys racist?
Re:if they would fit them with typewriters, by AmiMoJo · 2016-07-11 23:34 · Score: 1

Am I the only one who thinks we have failed if apps are so hard to create for our platforms?

--
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Re: if they would fit them with typewriters, by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-12 00:25 · Score: 0

Am I the only one that thinks you're a faggot?
Re: if they would fit them with typewriters, by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-12 20:54 · Score: 0

Definitely not.

There is a lot of truth to this by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 16:04 · Score: 2, Insightful

Most Indians I've had the displeasure to work around were constantly leaning on their white counterparts for help. They DO crank out "paper tigers" just like it was here in the US back in the late 90s where the certification mills were cranking out MCSEs who couldn't tell you the difference between WINS and DNS. Ditto now the Linux certs for Docker. The IT security world is awash with paper tigers. I was in that world for 5 years and got the hell out because the IT security guys tend to be an aggressive set of asshats for whatever reason. Most of them don't know crap.

American tech companies care about the bottom line. Fine. I understand that you have the evil shareholders barking at you. It's cheaper in the long run to hire and keep American workers. No one sees this. No one will.

I spoke with many an Indian who said they took the job here in the US to work for 3-5 years so they could buy outright their house in India and be able to take a ho-hum job there paying far less. Many do that. Meanwhile, here in the US, American companies screw over Americans for a pat on the back from the shareholders. The crows are coming home to roost one day. Pretty soon, there will be nothing left but shitty service jobs. If you are not in machine learning, AI, robotics, game development/design, or data warehousing/DBA/development, your job is in danger.

Re:There is a lot of truth to this by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 16:38 · Score: 0

If you avoid the big and expensive cities, you can buy a house in 3-5 years working as a software engineer and even fill it full of junk, then live comfortably with a ho-hum job.
Re:There is a lot of truth to this by ArmoredDragon · 2016-07-11 17:08 · Score: 1

This is what I'm planning to do, except without the ho-hum job part. It's mainly to hedge my bets against the very likely odds that I'll be unable to work in a few years due to having to be stuck in a dialysis clinic 3 times a week. If my house is paid for, I could live just fine on ~1200 a month. I've lived on less while still paying rent.
Re:There is a lot of truth to this by maroberts · 2016-07-11 22:07 · Score: 1

I think you're missing the point here. For one thing, this will mean that India will have a pool of developers, who whilst their skills are not A+, will be better than the available pool of skills in America, where there is essentially a small core of good developers and then nothing. Also if you have a pool of B quality developers, its not the hardest thing in the world to select the best and brightest of them for further up-skilling.
The Indian guys lean on their white counterparts for help, because their white counterparts are normally the onshore part of the offshore company, or because they're still learning. It won't stay that way.
India does perfectly competent hi-tech, including rockets, satellites, aircraft, phones etc. If the US is complaisant about it, soon they'll be in competition for the remaining high tech jobs and industries with India, and India will have a larger pool of people who can be "upgraded" educationally.

--
Donte Alistair Anderson Roberts - hi son!
Karma: Chameleon
Re:There is a lot of truth to this by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 22:48 · Score: 0

Same here. Just because computers are invented in america, these guys think that only they can understand it and all the rest of the world is dump, when they have a very vague theoretical idea on Big-O, graphs or patterns. The truth is developers from top companies never complain, because they are capable. The rest think they are capable while actually they compare to the worst in the other side.
Re:There is a lot of truth to this by fustakrakich · 2016-07-12 02:32 · Score: 1

It's cheaper in the long run to hire and keep American workers.
Long run? To these people the longest term they can think of is three months.

--
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
Re:There is a lot of truth to this by BarbaraHudson · 2016-07-12 02:51 · Score: 1

Very very doubtful. 90% of everything is shit - doesn't matter which country you're in or whether you're talking bagels or programmers.

--
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.

TRANSLATION by JustAnotherOldGuy · 2016-07-11 16:05 · Score: 1, Insightful

"Google To Train 2 Million Indian Android Developers"

TRANSLATION:

"Google To Produce 2 Million Incompetent Android Developers"

To be blunt about it, most of the Indian "developers" I've worked with have been worthless oxygen thieves.

About 10% seem to really know their shit, the rest are faking it, spending most of the time copying and pasting non-working code and then letting other people fix it. Some of them ask embarrassingly ignorant questions that expose them as completely unqualified, but because of the bargain-basement rates they work for, no one seems to give a shit.

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Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...

Re:TRANSLATION by arglebargle_xiv · 2016-07-11 16:38 · Score: 1

About 10% seem to really know their shit, the rest are faking it, spending most of the time copying and pasting non-working code and then letting other people fix it. Some of them ask embarrassingly ignorant questions that expose them as completely unqualified, but because of the bargain-basement rates they work for, no one seems to give a shit.
This is exactly my experience with Indian developers. A small percentage are really good (just like Indian doctors were two decades ago before the degree mills killed the brand), and the rest are as you describe. Reactions like "how could this guy even pass the job interview, he doesn't know how to use a linker" aren't uncommon. I once spent two days essentially writing some guy's code for him via RDS until I convinced his boss that he shouldn't be let anywhere near anything that involved coding.
Re:TRANSLATION by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 16:52 · Score: 0

worthless oxygen thieves.
LOL -- THAT one, I gotta remember.

... the rest are faking it ... Some of them ask embarrassingly ignorant questions that expose them as completely unqualified
I had a guy that worked near me but for another department. I'm an old RHCE (anybody else used Yggdrasil Linux? I did) and tried to help him early on. "That's not even wrong" comes to mind.
At one point he was trying to log into a server from a Windows box -- I showed him PuTTY and set it up. OK, fine, he didn't know what we used, and had to force the port default 22 (back then it wasn't by default. Easy to miss, but also easy to realize and fix.)
Got logged in, and he was reading over the ?IBM? manual for installation of their software. Fine, not my problem, bye. I walked away, but he came to get me a few minutes later.
Long story short: FIRST problem he hit was that a dependency wasn't installed. (RPM, pre-YUM.) Except the result told him exactly the package to install. "But it's not in the list of commands" he complained. It's a dependency, it's not going to install or work without it. You really do want to install it, but either way, not mine to fix. And so he did, and started chugging along again.
The NEXT problem he hit a few minutes later was when he made a typo. He came and got me. "This isn't the right command, I did it wrong." So fix it. "How?" Huh? Wha'dya mean how, fix the command.
He didn't know about the backspace key, he didn't know about keyboard editing, ^U or ^C and was afraid to hit a command on a mistyped rpm command that obviously wouldn't have done anything.
Three or four weeks later he was on call for their department. Over the weekend they had multiple servers down and Monday morning one of the normal guys was griping about fixing them. When he got it late, he was asked about it.
"The phone, it kept on ringing and ringing and just wouldn't stop on Saturday." (That was the automatic system check that ran every 10 minutes or so and complained if necessary.) "It kept ringing so I turned it off so it wouldn't bother me." You ... do realize you were on call over the weekend, right? "Sure."
He was fired the next day.
Oh, and he was supposedly a RHCE with IBM certifications and others. But talking to him, trying to help him, and watching him work: if it wasn't 101% completely and exactly explained in a book with the book telling him exactly what to type, he was clueless. No, really; I'm surprised he was able to take a piece of paper with our server names on it and login to them instead of the servers specified in the manual.
This guy really could be replaced with a very small shell script.
But another one was wonderful, they easily knew more that I did about their system. So it really is luck of the draw, or at least intelligence of the recruiter.
Re:TRANSLATION by advocate_one · 2016-07-11 16:54 · Score: 4, Insightful

About 10% seem to really know their shit,

be afraid then, because that means there's going to be some 200,000 more developers that really know their shit...

--
Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
Re:TRANSLATION by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 17:41 · Score: 0

I am wondering what the 200,000 would be thinking of the american developers. Let me guess "only 10% seem to know their shit" ? Gives 2000 americans!
Re:TRANSLATION by bayankaran · 2016-07-11 19:14 · Score: 4, Interesting

I am your Indian software developer.

If a developer is not capable, its for the organization to do something about it. If the organization/enterprise prefers a developer because he/she charges less though he/she is incompetent, then blame the organization, not the worker.

Also, most of the enterprise software work - for that matter most of web application development, including Android - needs someone who can understand the process and connect the dots. Genuinely good and imaginative programmers will be bored out of their wits in no time.

It seems you are mediocre yourself.

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Tat Tvam Asi
Re:TRANSLATION by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 20:17 · Score: 0

Given the number of clueless, lazy or completely incompetent American devs I've seen over the past decade, that seems about accurate.
Shit coders are shit coders. If you're paying for shit, why pay American prices? It's still just shit, whether it was originally a Big Mac or a plate of curry.
Re:TRANSLATION by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 20:51 · Score: 0

That is my experience with any developers. The problem here is - cheap means you can hire many and do not care anyway because it is either a foreign subsidiary or subcontractor far away. The optimization is not a rocket science but it is not easy to understand for the Unskilled Labour Among Us also called Managers. They optimize for the hourly price and are surprised that other factors change in a process. It seems they cannot hire as many at once in the West so generally there is more effort made towards selection and education. This is not done in the countries far away. The actual engineers knowing their trade are rare everywhere. In my experience good ones coming from cheap countries get over here to earn real money or do not bother with the West as they get a good buck back home. Not sure about India but in China it is definitely the case.
Re:TRANSLATION by gweihir · 2016-07-11 20:58 · Score: 1

I highly doubt that. From that kind of "qualification" you will get 0% good ones, as they are already in better jobs.

--
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
Re:TRANSLATION by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 22:11 · Score: 0

Other translation:
Excellent developers migrate to IOS as the expected salary of android developers will be '"low-cost".
Re:TRANSLATION by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 22:51 · Score: 0

No offense. But this is the same experience with american devs. Just can not think how they can call themselves developers, when they ask stupid questions.
Re:TRANSLATION by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 23:04 · Score: 0

" they easily knew more THAT I did about their system"
LOL. American?
Re:TRANSLATION by ThosLives · 2016-07-12 00:03 · Score: 1

I read it more as "Google to train 2M programmers in India to program Android", not "Google to train 2M people in India who don't know how to program at all, to program Android."
Very important difference - and training a programmer in another language / library / toolkit should be pretty trivial.
The question I have is - why 2M? What's special about that number? Is there a task (or set of tasks) that really needs 2M people to achieve, or is this just "let's pick a big number"?

--
"There are a dozen opinions on a matter until you know the truth. Then there is only one." - CS Lewis (paraprhase)
Re:TRANSLATION by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-12 00:16 · Score: 0

...convinced his boss that he shouldn't be let anywhere near anything that involved coding
So he got promoted to be your supervisor? (I wish I was kidding---cause that seems to happen often enough to not be funny).
Re:TRANSLATION by AmiMoJo · 2016-07-12 00:21 · Score: 2

"Schools To Train 2 Million In Mathematics"
TRANSLATION:
"Schools To Produce 2 Million Mathematicians"
Hmm... Doesn't seem right. Could it be that education doesn't guarantee everyone who has it is a grand master in that subject, but that some percentage do go on to excel and a larger number go on to produce useful, perfectly adequate work?

--
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Re:TRANSLATION by drainbramage · 2016-07-12 00:34 · Score: 1

So, that puts them on par with US college graduates.

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No brain, no pain.
Re:TRANSLATION by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-12 03:21 · Score: 1

I've recently returned from India working with the offsite team currently building my newest employer's back-end. From the reputation of Indian outsourced work, I expected ramshackle desks, offices, and people coding on fisher price equipment. Instead, I found modern facilities, clean work spaces, and engineers who could actually talk the talk and devs that could walk the walk. The reason there's so much hatred is because after almost 20 years of slowly outsourcing, India finally has a solid, and I mean SOLID, core of engineers, architects, and computer scientists who have put in several decades of grunt work and are now catching the rest of their industry up to "US" standards, whatever those are, while US engineers think they're the best because USA USA USA. These young Indian engineers are hungry: they work 12-16 hours/day, don't have a social life, and just code day in and day out, just like most of us did when we were just out of high-school and college.
The biggest problem I saw was: You put it in the spec, that's exactly what you get. There's not a lot of lateral thinking, application of context. Where a local software dev might stop and say 'Hey, about this, in the bigger context of our business, how will this affect X?" and possibly create a solution. The outsource team will give you exactly what you asked for and let you discover the issue.. and pay to add it to the scope. That, btw, will go away eventually, as well.
Re:TRANSLATION by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-12 05:40 · Score: 0

"It seems you are mediocre yourself." What is that based on? Indians don't even know how to insult someone in English, they just make absurd claims.
"If a developer is not capable, its for the organization to do something about it.." You're a professional, you should be improving your skills on your own as well. That's the attitude of the guy that comes to work to collect a paycheck.
Re:TRANSLATION by Tablizer · 2016-07-12 07:35 · Score: 1

If the organization/enterprise prefers a developer because he/she charges less though he/she is incompetent, then blame the organization, not the worker.

Most organizations are dysfunctional in IT because IT is not their core product/service and/or they are focused on the short-term because stock-holders want short-term returns. That's just the way it is. Dilbert is Real.
When I do a good job, it's because I take personal pride in it, not because I expect the organization to know or care.

--
Table-ized A.I.
Re:TRANSLATION by gzuckier · 2016-07-13 08:14 · Score: 1

"Schools To Train 2 Million In Mathematics"
TRANSLATION:
"Schools To Produce 2 Million Mathematicians"
Hmm... Doesn't seem right. Could it be that education doesn't guarantee everyone who has it is a grand master in that subject, but that some percentage do go on to excel and a larger number go on to produce useful, perfectly adequate work?
"I took math in school and now I understand that correlation does not imply causation."
"So they taught you statistics"
"Not necessarily"

--
Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
Re:TRANSLATION by gzuckier · 2016-07-13 08:16 · Score: 1

"Schools To Train 2 Million In Mathematics"
TRANSLATION:
"Schools To Produce 2 Million Mathematicians"
Hmm... Doesn't seem right. Could it be that education doesn't guarantee everyone who has it is a grand master in that subject, but that some percentage do go on to excel and a larger number go on to produce useful, perfectly adequate work?
"Indians Copulating to Produce 2 Million Mathematicians"

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Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
Re:TRANSLATION by gzuckier · 2016-07-13 08:18 · Score: 1

I read it more as "Google to train 2M programmers in India to program Android", not "Google to train 2M people in India who don't know how to program at all, to program Android."
Very important difference - and training a programmer in another language / library / toolkit should be pretty trivial.
The question I have is - why 2M? What's special about that number? Is there a task (or set of tasks) that really needs 2M people to achieve, or is this just "let's pick a big number"?
Have you not read "The Mythical Million Man Month"?

--
Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
Re:TRANSLATION by gzuckier · 2016-07-13 08:54 · Score: 1

About 10% seem to really know their shit, the rest are faking it, spending most of the time copying and pasting non-working code and then letting other people fix it. Some of them ask embarrassingly ignorant questions that expose them as completely unqualified, but because of the bargain-basement rates they work for, no one seems to give a shit.
This is exactly my experience with Indian developers. A small percentage are really good (just like Indian doctors were two decades ago before the degree mills killed the brand), and the rest are as you describe. Reactions like "how could this guy even pass the job interview, he doesn't know how to use a linker" aren't uncommon. I once spent two days essentially writing some guy's code for him via RDS until I convinced his boss that he shouldn't be let anywhere near anything that involved coding.
in other words, like any other profession

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Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.

Two Million? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 16:14 · Score: 0

Setting aside the usual snide comments about the competency of millions of new programmers (Indian or not), what does the world need 2 Million more Android programmers for? Wouldn't a much smaller number of new programmers (or no new programmers at all) suffice? Or is this maybe just a ploy on the part of google to drive down programmers wages by inducing over-supply?

Re:Two Million? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 16:55 · Score: 0

Because.
The cell phone is rapidly becoming THE computer people use.
They already dominate the market by sheer numbers now.

A radical idea by Okian+Warrior · 2016-07-11 16:17 · Score: 5, Insightful

Here's a radical idea.

Hey google - why don't you train 2 million Americans?

Re:A radical idea by mi · 2016-07-11 16:22 · Score: 3, Informative

Hey google - why don't you train 2 million Americans?
Because that might, accidentally, help make America great again... That just wouldn't do, would it?..

--
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
Re:A radical idea by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 16:57 · Score: 0

How do you train so many low-information Americans - Dunning-Kruger - when they already believe they have the answer. You are a nation suffering from profound ignorance, with a viral trajectory.
Re:A radical idea by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 17:22 · Score: 0

Hey google - why don't you train 2 million Americans?
Google is a multinational company, and most of their profits come from outside the USA. To add, India and China are the two major areas of growth into the future. The USA is that faded boxer who doesn't have it any more but still hasn't come to grips that he is washed up.
The answer to your question is one you will not like but is no less true even if you don't: They are training Indians instead of Americans because India is the future, and America is the past.
The better question to ask yourselves as Americans is where you went wrong. You used to be on top of the world. Now China makes everything you used to make, and India is eating into the programming. You used to make the best cars, now that's Japan.
Look to yourselves before you blame others. It is harder to do, but only by accepting where you went wrong do you have a hope of recovering from a tail spin.
Re:A radical idea by OhPlz · 2016-07-11 17:38 · Score: 1

It's easier to sell in a region where the people don't already have a house full of shiny gadgets. America is a more difficult market. It's a business play, not a power shift.
Re: A radical idea by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 17:46 · Score: 0

Haha China? China is old news shit brick. It's now Africa.
Re:A radical idea by backslashdot · 2016-07-11 19:01 · Score: 4, Insightful

There are numerous courses for free download already available. I don't get it, there is nothing preventing anyone from learning Android programming, or almost any other kind of programming. It's totally free. Google has had Android tutorials online for a few years now. If those don't work for you there are others.
Re:A radical idea by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 19:13 · Score: 0

Uh, it's available for free to Americans too, at least to the ones who can use a search engine: https://www.udacity.com/course...
Re:A radical idea by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 19:14 · Score: 0

Because you have to pay Americans wages that are actually fair.
Re:A radical idea by hcs_$reboot · 2016-07-11 21:11 · Score: 1

Why do you purchase stuff made in China?

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Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
Re:A radical idea by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 21:17 · Score: 0

Hey google - why don't you train 2 million Americans?
Google is a multinational company, and most of their profits come from outside the USA. To add, India and China are the two major areas of growth into the future. The USA is that faded boxer who doesn't have it any more but still hasn't come to grips that he is washed up.
The answer to your question is one you will not like but is no less true even if you don't: They are training Indians instead of Americans because India is the future, and America is the past.
India is the future? Tell me something, has the "future" managed to put a fucking toilet above a cell phone on the priority list yet?
Based on this latest job push, I'm guessing not. Good to know our "future" has its priorities in order.
Re:A radical idea by TheGratefulNet · 2016-07-11 21:17 · Score: 1

google, like the rest of the NON INNOVATING bay area giants, just wants warm bodies that are cheap to sit in its seats.
time and time again, they all learn that you can abuse indians and chinese and other asians and if they are here on h1b, they won't ever say no. they are polite little worker bees, living just to make your every wish come true, mr. manager man. sigh.
americans are 'too uppity'. they want time off. they want sick time. they want flex time. they want to be able to say no and move to another job easily. no google or hp or intel or oracle or anyone like that wants to have free actors working there; that ruins the 'we all follow orders' rule. too many people can give the foreigners some ideas and that just CANNOT be!
this is why. obedience and servitude. its the new silicon valley! ;(

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"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
Re:A radical idea by houghi · 2016-07-11 21:41 · Score: 1

W>hy not 2 million Belgians? They are a Belgian company as well. Or qny other country where they operate.
The most honest answer will be: because it is their money and they get to decide what to do with it.
The reason most likely will be that they can do 2MM in India because the cost is low while education is high. In the US they will not get as many for the same amount and in other countries it will be hard to find that many with a good enough basis.
So why don't YOU train 2 million Americans if you think it is such a great idea.

--
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
Re:A radical idea by Bristol_92 · 2016-07-11 21:54 · Score: 1

Because it’s cheaper to teach than reeducate. Plus, India offers huge human potential. The Indians will choose the work in IT sphere rather than life in poorness and insanitary conditions. I think that they deserve a chance working in Google. Why not? One lazy and incompetent Indian can’t characterize all nation.
Re:A radical idea by luis_a_espinal · 2016-07-11 22:00 · Score: 1

Hey google - why don't you train 2 million Americans?
Google is a multinational company, and most of their profits come from outside the USA. To add, India and China are the two major areas of growth into the future. The USA is that faded boxer who doesn't have it any more but still hasn't come to grips that he is washed up.
The answer to your question is one you will not like but is no less true even if you don't: They are training Indians instead of Americans because India is the future, and America is the past.
The better question to ask yourselves as Americans is where you went wrong. You used to be on top of the world. Now China makes everything you used to make, and India is eating into the programming. You used to make the best cars, now that's Japan.
Look to yourselves before you blame others. It is harder to do, but only by accepting where you went wrong do you have a hope of recovering from a tail spin.
India, like Brazil, has too many systemic problems right now for the world to consider it "the future". China, yes. And to a lesser extend Eastern Europe and some parts of Latin America (in particular Mexico which has been getting its shit together for the last 2 decades.)
Heck, even Japan with its aging population will be part of the future for a long time before India. Why, robotics, efficiency and personal/business savings up to the wazoo.
For India to overcome China (and other regions of the world) as "the future", it needs to overcome them in terms of manufacturing (both low-value added and high-value added manufacturing.)
I find that extremely unlikely (and no, don't construe my words as a bashing of India, I want India to progress and for her citizens to live better.) But it is simply not set up to be a global manufacturing hub (unlike China or Indonesia or Malaysia or Japan or Mexico.)
In the services area, however, I think India is well posed, and it will do well hitting that.
Re:A radical idea by luis_a_espinal · 2016-07-11 22:04 · Score: 1

Hey google - why don't you train 2 million Americans?
Google is a multinational company, and most of their profits come from outside the USA. To add, India and China are the two major areas of growth into the future. The USA is that faded boxer who doesn't have it any more but still hasn't come to grips that he is washed up.
The answer to your question is one you will not like but is no less true even if you don't: They are training Indians instead of Americans because India is the future, and America is the past.
India is the future? Tell me something, has the "future" managed to put a fucking toilet above a cell phone on the priority list yet?
Based on this latest job push, I'm guessing not. Good to know our "future" has its priorities in order.
Unfortunately India is plagued by the same problems that plague Brazil. Wealth accumulated on top, an educated middle class, and then swats and swats and more swats of people living in filth and misery. Both countries excel at not making their poor's well being a priority. **
** With that said, I think India will fix that before Brazil. India is improving little by little. Brazil keeps sliding in the opposite direction.
Re:A radical idea by roman_mir · 2016-07-11 23:04 · Score: 1

Because Americans have a government that makes them completely uncompetitive and as a result it make them unproductive. Americans have too much debt, too many rules and laws, the taxes in America are too high to support too big a government and too many entitlements. Americans are too expensive as a result and cannot compete due to complete lack of economic freedom in the country.

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You can't handle the truth.
Re:A radical idea by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 23:08 · Score: 1

Here's a radical idea.
Hey google - why don't you train 2 million Americans?
If you're going to be a xenophobic prick, make sure you don't invite an entire continent of over 30 countries to the party, just saying
Re:A radical idea by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 23:36 · Score: 0

lol, yeah compare that to india and your arguement kind of vaporizes.
Re:A radical idea by AmiMoJo · 2016-07-11 23:40 · Score: 1

India is a vast and largely untapped market for smartphones, but they need Indian apps to drive adoption. Apps in the local languages that address local needs.
Google is hardly going to leave this to chance.

--
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Re:A radical idea by roman_mir · 2016-07-12 00:10 · Score: 1

Google disagrees with you.

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You can't handle the truth.
Re:A radical idea by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-12 02:58 · Score: 0

That's ok, Google has its own interests.
Which do not include bettering the lives of Americans.
Re:A radical idea by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-12 05:52 · Score: 0

What is better, free downloaded courses and tutorials or an in-person professional straight from google training you?
Re:A radical idea by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-12 08:41 · Score: 0

You fucking autist, you know what is meant by "Americans," so shut up and slither back into your hole in the dirt.
Re: A radical idea by backslashdot · 2016-07-12 09:48 · Score: 1

The 2 million aren't getting that.
Re:A radical idea by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-12 12:22 · Score: 0

why do not you, with some kind of competing structure. Linux fundamentals , modular phones and .. damn forgot about that need for money ..
maybe you have something that can easilby be converted to usefulness.
Re:A radical idea by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-13 07:01 · Score: 0

What you don't get is that Google is using our money to help India instead of America. The courses are irrelevant. The headline could have been "Google giving Indians 2 million plastic sticks" and people would be pissed about it. Your old 5 digit ass should be able to see what's happening here.
Re:A radical idea by backslashdot · 2016-07-13 14:42 · Score: 1

It's not your money, it's Google's.
Re:A radical idea by trojjan · 2016-07-13 21:34 · Score: 1

The issue here is politics, Narendra Modi is sucking up to the US since he came into power . Sucking up to US corporations is a part of it. He tried really hard to get Facebook's 'Free Basics' in India until the Telecom Regulatory Authority(TRAI) shot it down favoring net neutrality. Now the focus is Android development. This will be played by the media 24/7, getting support from young voters in particular, Google will get benefits from the government(tax breaks for this 'training', maybe cheap land for their offices etc.). I've gone through Android development documentation, I doubt it can be made simpler, so this definitely is not about education.

All this while the country's faced drought for 2 straight years and the farmers are committing suicides in mass numbers, also the education budget has been cut in the face of fierce opposition. When asked his opinion on such initiatives, Amartya Sen(Nobel Prize winner, Economics) had this to say: "I doubt the efficacy of such initiatives when more than half of children in the country do not have a school to go to"

Google =Most anti-competitive company in the world by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 16:21 · Score: 0

Google =Most anti-competitive company in the world

Google =Most anti-american company in the world

Google = censors crooked hillary

Moral of the story, fuck google.

Leave my phone alone by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 16:24 · Score: 0

Just because I do business with an organization doesn't mean I want their damn app on my phone. Between taking up precious storage space, bothering me frequently with update notifications and potentially exposing my personal info via poor coding/security practices I want none of it. Build a decent, trustworthy mobile browser and websites instead. Outlook 365 on a mobile browser is really good in this regard, IMHO, and I'd much rather have more similarly well-built browser based services than a f*cktonne of crap mobile apps.

The name of their initiative by 93+Escort+Wagon · 2016-07-11 16:31 · Score: 3, Insightful

code.h1b

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#DeleteChrome

You're just overpaid by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 16:33 · Score: 0

Google and its ilk are driving down the salaries for IT workers in the literal race to zero.

The only reason to pay peanuts for your replacement is that you're shit at it or that your job can be done by monkeys. If you are making a valuable contribution that is better than what can be churned out of the third world then obviously you have nothing to worry about, you're worried because you're overpaid, disposable and easily replaceable.

Re:You're just overpaid by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 16:39 · Score: 0

Everyone but a few IT workers are replaceable. If you're not in AI, machine learning, data storage/delivery, virtual reality/gaming, or robotics, you're screwed. This is coming from a high-level (C suite) Microsoft guy I spoke to at a conference. I won't name him as he asked not to be quoted, but he's terribly worried about the future of IT here in America what with the race to the bottom. He said there is very little than can be done to course correct. Very few people will have decent IT jobs in 10 years time. Most of them will be relegated to support roles. Your theory of adding value is true, but even the "valuable" players today are tomorrow's buggy whips. You know it, I know it.
Re:You're just overpaid by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 18:10 · Score: 0

Everyone but a few IT workers are replaceable.
If you're doing the IT equivalent of burger flipping then expect to get paid minimum wage. Why should you get paid any more than a McDonalds employee when your job requires no more skill?
Re:You're just overpaid by ranton · 2016-07-12 02:42 · Score: 1

Everyone but a few IT workers are replaceable. If you're not in AI, machine learning, data storage/delivery, virtual reality/gaming, or robotics, you're screwed. This is coming from a high-level (C suite) Microsoft guy I spoke to at a conference.

Its very suspect that this opinion came from someone competent, because none of those skills are among those that are hard to outsource. They are purely technical skills which are just as easy to train as any other IT skill. Right now many of them require greater mathematical skills than your average Javascript programmer, but already we are seeing APIs and frameworks which bundle up the hard stuff so anyone in the field can use them. In 10 years using machine learning libraries will be just as easy to use as jQuery is today.
The skills which bring serious salaries today are the same which will command them in 10 years. Soft skills. Requirements elicitation, high level architectural design, explaining that design to C-suite executives, and managing large teams (among others).
You are probably correct that most of the actual coding will become a profession not much higher paid than CAD operators today. The software engineering profession will continue to mature, however, and it will probably be even higher paid than it is today. The need for innovative software solutions is not going to diminish any time soon. But writing Javascript code may become as important to software engineers and using a wrench is to mechanical engineers. Still a part of the job but not why they are paid well.

--
-- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke

Kill all teh jawbs! by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 16:37 · Score: 0

$15/hr for everybuddy!

Great idea! by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 16:39 · Score: 0

Just bought a book on java for Android. This sucks. I.T. sucks. I am already past 30 yrs of age and can hardly find a new job as a programmer. Working at Burger King is becoming a real prospect. This sharing economy is a raw shit deal for our generation and beyond. Why are we Americans allowing corporations to move our jobs anywhere in the world? This shit should be illegal.

Re:Great idea! by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 22:17 · Score: 0

Isn't burger king going to start using robots? So much for that prospect.
Re:Great idea! by footNipple · 2016-07-12 03:21 · Score: 1

Hey, I agree with the spirit of your post. So vote Trump and see if a little protectionism helps. Who knows...

Two words google by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 16:45 · Score: 0

Two words google, fuck you.

Another reason not to buy apps by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 16:47 · Score: 0

Because we have better things to do than find Po-kee-man crap.

Whiners by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 16:50 · Score: 0

Many Americans are such whiners, claiming superiority, but unable to reason their way out of a paper bag. Any story resembling the current, results in the same simplistic responses. A bit of irony, there. No wonder so many of you have a difficult time in the marketplace.

Re:Whiners by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 18:58 · Score: 0

unable to reason their way out of a paper bag
Read your own post, you're an American too. Jesus!

Well better up the discount by Crashmarik · 2016-07-11 16:57 · Score: 1

On the Android Dev course I keep seeing on Slashdot.

Dump your stock by plopez · 2016-07-11 16:59 · Score: 1

In any droid related company NOW.

--
putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+

Hey, malloc debug is giving me nonsense... by jpellino · 2016-07-11 17:04 · Score: 1

Looks like I'm going to have to call Android dev support. God, I hate this - every time I call I get another American on the line.

--
"Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."

Irony by rholtzjr · 2016-07-11 17:09 · Score: 1

Does anyone else find this amusing that it is the American Companies that are systematically destroying the American Economy?

Re:Irony by Tablizer · 2016-07-11 17:49 · Score: 1, Informative

Japan has shown that protectionism creates jobs, even if it means stuff is a bit more expensive. Do you want jobs or stuff for your nation's population?

--
Table-ized A.I.
Re:Irony by Dutch+Gun · 2016-07-11 18:50 · Score: 1

So, is that why their economy has been stagnant for the past few decades? They've had *two* "lost decades" now? Oh, don't forget being overworked until you commit suicide, a phenomenon common enough to get its own term. How about making a whopping $26K a year as a key animator for anime? It's not exactly a fantastic place for women's equality in the workplace. And they're worried about their increasingly elderly population and how to care for them as fewer young people are choosing to have kids, resulting in a negative birth rate.
On the plus side, Japan has relatively few lawyers, their people tend to save a lot, are relatively healthy in general, and don't have nearly the violent crime problem we have in the US.
Japan has a lot going for it, but every society has its positives and negatives. It's typically not very practical to pick one single element and transplant it to a different society.

--
Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
Re:Irony by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 23:00 · Score: 0

Do you even understand how money is created, and thus who completely controls the Japanese economy? (And every other economy on the planet.)
Re:Irony by Tablizer · 2016-07-12 05:14 · Score: 1

"Stagnant" or not, they have some of the lowest unemployment rates of any industrialized nation.

--
Table-ized A.I.

GOOGLE SOLD USA THE FUCK OUT by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 17:36 · Score: 0

Google is a FUCKING US Government spy shop. Why wouldn't they train Indians and buy rice paddies too fuck it. Sell American land and properties all to China then make big threats with boats. Eric Schmidt is a treasonous bitch too.

https://www.news.slashdot.org/story/16/03/06/1834211/eric-schmidt-gets-a-job-at-the-pentagon

Why is Windows 10/8.1/8/7 ALL spyware?! GEE. I don't know.
MSNBC is Microsoft National Broadcasting Company
http://www.abbreviations.com/term/374902

These situations all are a chain of events from 9/11 WTC attacks and other false flags. Watch out for race bait and gay bait in the news with more Hillary soap operas.

Are you so busy 9 to 5 that you can't think? Hillary or Trump is this a fucking mindblowing decision? Did Hillary email did she not did she have a home server did she not. Fucking A, you people are reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeetarded buying their shit and using their spyware.

Re:GOOGLE SOLD USA THE FUCK OUT by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 19:45 · Score: 0

Medication can help. You should speak to your doctor about these irrational outbursts of yours.
Re:GOOGLE SOLD USA THE FUCK OUT by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-12 03:32 · Score: 0

Only sane comment here. Not retarded, sedated and preoccupied surviving.
Re:GOOGLE SOLD USA THE FUCK OUT by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-12 04:51 · Score: 0

enjoy Hell, doc.

Re:TRANSLATION [population] by Tablizer · 2016-07-11 17:44 · Score: 1

We Americans have to fuck faster and harder to catch up. Quick, open-source porn!

--
Table-ized A.I.

Stack Overflow by Hognoxious · 2016-07-11 17:46 · Score: 4, Funny

Stack Overflow already ordered some extra servers.

--
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."

Re:Stack Overflow by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-12 00:05 · Score: 1

Let's hope they do the needful.
Re:Stack Overflow by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-12 00:56 · Score: 0

Built in India...

WRONG. 200,000 competent JAVA programmers by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 17:50 · Score: 0, Insightful

For those of us that do the quote unquote "real" programming languages ... this means nothing.

Java and .NET are "the sitting at the kids table" of programming languages.

Re: WRONG. 200,000 competent JAVA programmers by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-12 00:08 · Score: 0

Hmm... I would say that this is one of the more childish remarks I've seen lately. C# and the .NET infrastructure is a great place for competent programmers. Though, I have seen for many years uneducated people make statements like yours and probably for similar reasons.
So long as I'm not writing a new operating system, C# is an excellent choice because of portability and a manageable garbage collector. For any project which needs memory protection and well as large document structures (consider parsing a web page for example), C# is quite amazing.
Only children reject the concept of relocatable and retargetable menory with delayed cleanup during idle cycles. Add the ability to manage byte alignment as well as inherent bounds checking, it's a thing of beauty. I did all this in C++ in the old days and our team had nearly 750,000 lines of code just for memory management. We spent an average of 10,000 man hours every year just on memory protection and defragmentation.
I've implemented smaller but similar projects in C# over the years and while I still manage the GC (often manually), I would consider anyone who rejects the principle based on lack of intelligence a waste of skin.
A proper programmer doesn't waste 1,000 hours a year manually tuning data structures in C or C++ to provide memory management that comes for free in languages that are better suited for this. As for performance, in most categories, code compiled at runtime via AOT or JIT generally outperforms hand coded compiled C for dozens of reasons. Where it doesn't is because bad code is bad code no matter what. This is why LLVM is so exciting for C and C++.
So... Because you made such a silly statement, I'll clock you up in the category of "Might be smart someday for now is a know it all noob"

The Decline of MLB and NBA Myth? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 18:05 · Score: 0

We should commend Google for doing this. And commend Apple and other OEMs for making Shenzhen China great. The software jobs everyone is afraid of losing wouldn't even exist today if all the clothes and shoes at WalMart had to be made in the USA. We don't know what the next jobs will be, and that leads to uncertainty and defense of privilege.

Creepy racism and snarky comments from the back bench didn't stop the Celtics or the Dodgers from integrating black players into the NBA and MLB. The guys who lost their professional sports jobs didn't lose them to sports players willing to bat and dribble for "less money" (or far worse negative stereotyped activity), they lost them to fantastic players who made the Leagues great.

Re:WRONG. 200,000 competent JAVA programmers by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 18:11 · Score: 0

Go back to playing shuffleboard grandpa.

Sai da minha coleção by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 18:18 · Score: 0

Aquela merdinha se acha a indiana trancendental na cama mas não passa de uma maria gasolina viciada em caralho.

They were going to run it in Pakistan by Hognoxious · 2016-07-11 18:36 · Score: 1

They were going to run it in Pakistan, but people read it as "Android Fundamentalists".

--
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."

Run Android apps on mainstream Linux by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 18:52 · Score: 1

I'm surprised that this topic has generated a discussion almost entirely about how it will be bad for American jobs, instead of about how millions of new app developers in India will take the Android ecosystem even further down the spiral of privacy-denial and user-abuse that is Google's daily business.

Work for hire doesn't have any good mechanisms for negative feedback. Ethics be damned, the work is simply given to the lowest bidder, so the future is very bleak for Android users.

I doubt that there is any user-respecting hope left for Android, because Google is now a completely evil company that just barely masks what it does behind PR. However, I do think that Android apps can still be saved, by the means in my subject title.

Mainstream Linux distros have all the user protections needed to put Android apps back under user control instead of under the control of Google and its app developers. Firewalling, containers and full virtualization are three common mechanisms that put users back in charge. While running the apps under mainstream Linux is still very rare, it does allow us to tame the monster and reduce the impact of Google's lack of conscience.

Re:Run Android apps on mainstream Linux by johanw · 2016-07-11 19:18 · Score: 2

Root your android and install a firewall, rights manager (Xprivacy is the best I know), and a tool to disable services so you can kill Google ad and analytics services. That should givre you some edge.
Re:Run Android apps on mainstream Linux by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 21:02 · Score: 1

Root your android and install a firewall, rights manager (Xprivacy is the best I know), and a tool to disable services so you can kill Google ad and analytics services. That should givre you some edge.
This isn't about techies, we've always had the knowledge and the ability to give ourselves that edge.
It's about the 99+% of Android users who have no technical knowledge nor interest whatsoever, and who in most cases won't even understand how they are being farmed. They will never gain that edge, unless someone gives it to them. That someone won't be Google.
Our families and non-technical friends are among those being farmed and surveilled and abused by multiple parties, including online criminals. This is an area in which helping ourselves by jailing apps could help those that we care for the most.
Re:Run Android apps on mainstream Linux by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 23:17 · Score: 0

I thought the comments would be about this also. Dying ecosystem ? Flood it with MORE cheap crap!
Play store is all but dead to me.
Re:Run Android apps on mainstream Linux by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-12 01:15 · Score: 0

It's not even about "social skills." I actually have no clue WTF "social skills" are supposed to be. What I can tell you is that I can get most anybody to like me. All I'm really missing is that I need an RSS feed or something to review sports score in the morning.
No, what it's about is getting paid. Who has more "social skills?" The guy driving the Fiesta or the guy driving the Shelby GT 500? It doesn't fucking matter, that's who has better "social skills." The guy in the Shelby GT 500 has STATUS.
I'm still kicking myself for not going into investment banking. Programming is the worst fucking thing somebody who's good with numbers can specialize in.
Re:Run Android apps on mainstream Linux by macs4all · 2016-07-12 02:56 · Score: 0

Work for hire doesn't have any good mechanisms for negative feedback. Ethics be damned, the work is simply given to the lowest bidder, so the future is very bleak for Android users.
It's already ghetto-enough as it is. How low can it go?
Re:Run Android apps on mainstream Linux by AmiMoJo · 2016-07-12 03:40 · Score: 1

You don't even need to root to install a firewall.

--
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC

For Science!! by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 19:08 · Score: 0

Indian androids, FTW!

Re:Republicans raped me in Brazil by johanw · 2016-07-11 19:18 · Score: 1

Now shut up or we'll do it again for 120 minutes.

Re:WRONG. 200,000 competent JAVA programmers by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 19:26 · Score: 0

From game engines to operating systems to libraries to driving to writing the "kids table programming languages" and their IDEs --- the low level programming languages are where the backbone of computing gets done.

You see it in the pay check.

My prediction by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 19:33 · Score: 0

Half of them will be named "Anthony".

Can you say "cheap labour"? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 19:42 · Score: 0

Capitalists being capitalists. It's all about lowering the price of programming salaries.

Based on my experience with Indian programmers by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 19:49 · Score: 0

That means they'll have about 200 good programmers.

In 2009 by williamyf · 2016-07-11 20:43 · Score: 5, Interesting

In 2009, when microsoft did their "Elevate America" training FOR AMERICANS, the Slashdot Collective complained, loud and clear...

https://it.slashdot.org/story/09/02/23/220227/microsoft-unveils-elevate-america

I am guessing the Hindustanis will not complain so loudly, if at all...

Enjoy

this was my comment in 2009:

"Lets only hope That RedHat, Suse and the FSF come up with similar programs, both in breadth and # of persons reached.

That way, the computer Illiterate can choose what technology to learn, and are armed and ready when the ceconomy picks up in three years time...

And let's also hope that Microsoft, RedHat, Suse, the FSF, Cisco, Juniper, IBM, Oracle, Sun and the gang rememeber that this is a GLOBAL crisis, and launch similar programs worldwide....

Bridging the "digital divide" will only be good for America and for the World

Salud!"

--
*** Suerte a todos y Feliz dia!

I have a Nexus 5x... by jmd · 2016-07-11 20:51 · Score: 1

Can I run Firefox OS on it? Ubuntu Touch?

What will they do ? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 21:22 · Score: 0

What exactly will these extra few million Android developers do ?

Isnt the world over saturated with ios and Android garbage apps ?

hmm by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 21:26 · Score: 0

is this the same 2 million that already have a CCNA?

Not just indians... by monkeyxpress · 2016-07-11 21:26 · Score: 1

About 10% seem to really know their shit, the rest are faking it, spending most of the time copying and pasting non-working code and then letting other people fix it. Some of them ask embarrassingly ignorant questions that expose them as completely unqualified, but because of the bargain-basement rates they work for, no one seems to give a shit.

Outside top-tier firms, this statement could easily apply to the bulk of developers from western countries as well.

This guy !!! by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 21:31 · Score: 0

This guy gets it .

Agree and Amplify, gentlemen !!!

If you haven't yet switched to iOS... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 22:06 · Score: 1

... it's a good time to do so.
Considering my experience with indian developers, at least.
I already forgot how many projects i've fixed for companies that went to do it for cheap in India.
And no, I'm not in the US - Eastern Europe. In my experience, hire your programmers anywhere but India.

Isn't 90% off Play Store pure trash already by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 23:05 · Score: 0

What's the point in adding 2 million new shitty developers to the ecosystem?

Who actually profits from this? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-11 23:55 · Score: 0

It's not anyone in India. They would become a dime a dozen resource with such a diluted base that no one would be willing to pay them a reasonable fee. As such, they would be slave labor performing the absolute bare minimums to collect any pay.

Not Google. Let's assume the average developer from the pool would release 2 apps a year (based on team projects and multiple projects a year). So that's 4 million new apps a year. There is no way that kind of volume could be managed. I would cost Google billions just to perform minimal app review before publishing. Beyond that there would be about a 0.5% chance an app would be found and downloaded.

Not the customer. The massive number of apps would mar the play store which already sucks due to only AAA titles being visible. The apps would be impossible to find and even the better apps would be quickly burried.

In addition, being able to make an app which can run is different than being able to program something useful. The sheer volume of crap apps will be mind boggling.

The Indian government can't profit since their people (which is their most important currency) will be devalued to nearly zero.

So... How the hell can this possibly work?

Yay! Total job security! by Opportunist · 2016-07-12 00:22 · Score: 1

So glad I decided to switch over to mobile security!

Keep 'em coming!

--
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.

Walmart greeters by colinrichardday · 2016-07-12 00:25 · Score: 2

Yes, Walmart hires people to greet customers at the door.

Re:Walmart greeters by Opportunist · 2016-07-12 00:34 · Score: 2

Do they have some secondary, "hidden" job, like, looking out for shoplifters or the like?
I just can't believe they actually pay people for what the beggar in front of my usual supermarket does for "free": Annoy the living crap out of customers.

--
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Re:Walmart greeters by colinrichardday · 2016-07-12 01:34 · Score: 1

No. They just greet people.
Re:Walmart greeters by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-12 01:51 · Score: 0

I've been told by several people I know who work in Walmart management that greeters are very important for reducing shoplifting. The original premise was that people would have a harder time stealing in front of an elderly grandparent figure. There's also the idea that people are more conscious of a person than of a bunch of cameras with a guy watching them in some room. It works though. I was told that in stores where they attempted to cut the position, the theft rates went up significantly.
Re:Walmart greeters by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-12 02:42 · Score: 0

It deters shoplifting. Psychologically, a potential thief feels like they have been seen and will get caught if they do something.
Re:Walmart greeters by macs4all · 2016-07-12 02:49 · Score: 1

No. They just greet people.
In some stores, they assist people with getting shopping carts, too.
Re:Walmart greeters by AmiMoJo · 2016-07-12 03:24 · Score: 1

They tried them in the UK too, for example at B&Q DIY stores. They did at least try to make them helpful, directing you to the thing you were looking for, but in a supermarket where people just seem to walk up and down every aisle even that seems pointless.
They stopped bothering after a while, perhaps because British people find it weird when strangers are friendly or don't appreciate the ineffable misery of their own lives.

--
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Re:Walmart greeters by RabidReindeer · 2016-07-12 04:42 · Score: 1

It was supposed to make shoppers feel like WalMart is a warm and fuzzy place.
To offset the fact that a security guard checks your receipt before you're 5 feet from the cash register.
Re:Walmart greeters by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-12 05:16 · Score: 0

Given that the greeters are often elderly or otherwise have limited mobility they wouldn't be able to do much about theft.
Re:Walmart greeters by HornWumpus · 2016-07-12 05:57 · Score: 1

Say 'no thank you' and keep walking.

--
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Re:Walmart greeters by Tablizer · 2016-07-12 06:01 · Score: 1

I can see the confusion: in the UK, Daleks great customers.

--
Table-ized A.I.
Re:Walmart greeters by Slugster · 2016-07-12 06:19 · Score: 1

Do they have some secondary, "hidden" job, like, looking out for shoplifters or the like?
They don't just greet people.
They can generally direct customers to where stuff is in the store. Which isn't rocket science, but it is nice if one is in a hurry and the store is the size of three soccer pitches (which some are).
Another task they do is when you bring an item in to return it, they put a tag on it so that the people at the returns counter know that you really brought it in from outside.

Last but not least:
It allows Wal-Mart to employ some elderly people in a position that doesn't require much of any physical labor other than standing up. The greeter is usually a senior citizen (pensioner).
Due to US hiring laws companies need to be able to show that they are employing (or attempting to employ) people of all ages... and this is a job that is fairly easy for older people to do.

The door greeters are usually way too frail to attempt to stop any shoplifters. They just call for someone else for that if they see it.
Re:Walmart greeters by RabidReindeer · 2016-07-12 09:34 · Score: 1

I walk alright.
I walk right past the entire WalMart store. And any other store that routinely does this.
And into one where the customers aren't all automatically assumed to be thieves.
Re:Walmart greeters by lucien86 · 2016-07-13 09:22 · Score: 1

Stores like that don't only assume the customers are thieves. They also assume the cashiers are too - and probably the managers. Since the employees are usually mostly casual and on short term contracts, if they don't watch them they can get very high rates of theft - eg 5% or more.

--
Below the speed of light Special Relativity is one of the most accurate theories in physics - above the speed of light..
Re:Walmart greeters by RabidReindeer · 2016-07-13 14:43 · Score: 1

I'm not a retail expert, but I though the loss rate for theft and damage typically ran about 10% anyway.
It's just that certain people think they aren't rich enough yet, and they're willing to drive away paying customers while they try to drive that number down to zero.

The tough economic times by Latent+Heat · 2016-07-12 00:34 · Score: 1

I haven't encountered a greeter at Walmart in I don't know how long.

There used to be this old white dude who said "hi!" and handed off to you a shopping cart. Don't see that anymore.

Re:The tough economic times by fuzznutz · 2016-07-12 01:44 · Score: 1

I haven't encountered a greeter at Walmart in I don't know how long.
There used to be this old white dude who said "hi!" and handed off to you a shopping cart. Don't see that anymore.
I read in the news that WalMart was bringing back the greeter job. The stores around here never really did away with them. They are supposed to be some sort of loss prevention or deterrent line of defense. I cannot remember the last time I saw one actually offer to get a cart. I'd say it's a 50% chance that they even open their mouth to greet anyone. Mostly, they sit on a chair and look bored.

Re:TRANSLATION [population] by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-12 00:37 · Score: 0

We Americans have to fuck faster and harder to catch up. Quick, open-source porn!

Right! Viagra and Levitra in all drinking water systems, KY air-drops, and emergency closure of all PP clinics it is, then!

Screw like you have to birth 1,999!

Simple by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-12 00:44 · Score: 0

A video course that teaches everything you need to be certified on Youtube.

Indians, huh ? by vikingpower · 2016-07-12 00:53 · Score: 2

Expect spaghetti code, tons of boilerplate code, no design pattern application at all, classes with verbs in their name, brute-forcing every search and every sort, duplicated methods or duplicated method bodies, variables in subclasses hiding variables in superclasses, deadlock and race conditions, and - most of all - having to undo then redo it all by yourself.

--
Religous speak to God. Insane are spoken to by God. When all shut up, one can finally hear Shostakovich in peace

Re:Indians, huh ? by AmiMoJo · 2016-07-12 03:54 · Score: 1

So like 80% of western code too then... Seriously, if you work in the industry for any length of time you find tonnes of legacy crapware code that is tangled in knots and hacked together, with snippets from all over the place and a shedload of redundant junk.
I had some firmware written by a white British guy. It was controlled by a command line interface. Entering more than 80 characters would lock it so hard only a hardware reset was possible. In fact any slight deviation from the precise instructions and tested operating conditions would cause it to fail in unpredictable and spectacular ways. His is far from the only example I could mention.

--
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Re:Indians, huh ? by Notorious+G · 2016-07-12 04:06 · Score: 1

I've done more than a few projects with offshore development. Yeah, there are some crappy western developers - it was particularly bad during the dotcom era when every excel macro developer thought he was a programmer and was trying to get into the game. But we're talking the averages. On average, the non-western developers write code that is poor for all the reasons mentioned above. They are difficult to work with due to cultural issues (e.g. Indian developers *always* tell you they understand, even when they don't) and that makes for some really crazy code that even if it works does not do what you really wanted done so you spend considerable time and effort trying to fix the code and the understanding of requirements. And time zone offsets, don't get me started, it's a hassle when meetings can generally only happen at 6 AM and 6 PM.
Re:Indians, huh ? by hackel · 2016-07-12 07:00 · Score: 1

This, exactly this! Yes, as others have pointed out, there's a lot of shitty code produced by Western programmers, but the amount produced by Indian programmers is a much higher percentage. Perhaps it's because of the extreme pressure they're under to work quickly. Oh, and forget about testing... Unit testing, functional testing...nope. Just get it out the door!

China Labor vs. Indian Programmer by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-12 01:09 · Score: 1

So no one complains when the factories from america disappeared decades ago.. to china.. India is on similar track.. Indians little bit more advantage with English background due to British invasion. India will grab lot of the IT jobs in next decade. As well as many of defense jobs too.

Basically, if you are in IT you better change your status from a Software Dev/Programmer to a Manager else you will be fighting for your post.. There will be huge demand to manage these IT projects from USA... i can foresee many jobs available for management side in next decade.

Also, the IT salaries will be saturated.. and the H1B people will return to india due to the next wave of cheaper programmer and companies won't see any advantage in H1B program with all the cost attached. may be this has already started.

How can they learn to program by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-12 01:14 · Score: 0

when 600 million Indians can't be bothered to shit in the toilet?

Vote Trump by wisnoskij · 2016-07-12 01:26 · Score: 1

Instead of just complaining on /. about how Google/etc. are destroying your careers vote Trump, campaign for Trump, go out and so something to get the only candidate who not only has even expressed an interest in saving American jobs, but who is running with that as his main issue.

--
Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.

Re:Vote Trump by gzuckier · 2016-07-13 08:21 · Score: 1

Instead of just complaining on /. about how Google/etc. are destroying your careers vote Trump, campaign for Trump, go out and so something to get the only candidate who not only has even expressed an interest in saving American jobs, but who is running with that as his main issue.
and has a made in China clothing line to prove it.

--
Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.

Re:Speaking of Google... by Ol+Olsoc · 2016-07-12 01:43 · Score: 1

Have you guys Binged Ariel Winter on Google recently?

Wait.... was that a typo?

--
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.

Tue, if your company only ever needs one task done by raymorris · 2016-07-12 02:06 · Score: 1

If there is only one programming task that your company will ever need, it might make sense to not have it done well. MIGHT because very frequently a good programmer can look at the entire system around a piece of software and recommend an approach that will save X hours of labor (money) every week, for the life of the system. As an example from my last job, there were a lot of separate pieces of software in the system. People would routinely download a report from system A, copy and paste it into system B, and use system B to transform it for entry into system C. A, B, C all stored their data on the data on the database server. Which means that all that manual work of entering and copy-pasting every week was just a way of getting data from the database into the database! Rather than re-implementing system B as originally requested, I was able to skip all of that amd replace it with a scheduled query that AUTOMATICALLY copied the data from the A database into the C database directly. That saved four hours of work every week.

In most real companies, there's more than one job to do. Rather than spending this week working on bugs in code I wrote last month, I can do a new task this week, because I didn't write crap last month.

In most cases, the lowest total cost is quality work, by someone who will charge 50% more per hour, and accomplish 100% more useful work.

how to phrase without coming off as racist?... by Thud457 · 2016-07-12 02:17 · Score: 1

"Two million Indian Android Developers" something something and "will eventually generate the complete works of Shakespeare".

More likely 1,999,999 impoverished developers resorting to creating shoddy malware.
And incessant calls from "Joe at Android" warning me that my phone is sending an IP address and he can fix it if just only I give him remote access.

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the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

I just stole your job and I am proud of it! by Master5000 · 2016-07-12 02:21 · Score: 2

HAHAHA it's always funny to see american losers complain. Full disclosure: I am one of the guys that is stealing your jobs and I am enjoying every minute of it. You know why? Because if I make 1500$ a month in my country I am called rich since the average salary is 250$ around here. For you 1500$ is shit. You all want big houses and brand new cars but guess what? You've priced yourselves out of your market. I can do what you can do at least as well if not better for a much lower salary. The corporations win, I win, the Indians win, everybody wins. Everybody except little whiners like you! We operate under extreme pressure and DON'T COMPLAIN! You, on the other hand, are little bitches compared to us. It's all evolution after all. Survival of the fittest. I can live in conditions that you wouldn't even have bad dreams about, I adapt. You die. I and others like me win. Plus, let's not forget that we outbreed you. The end of the western bitches. Bye bye!

Re:I just stole your job and I am proud of it! by Zack63 · 2016-07-12 02:45 · Score: 1

I'm betting you are a troll
Re:I just stole your job and I am proud of it! by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-12 04:34 · Score: 0

...I can live in conditions that you wouldn't even have bad dreams about...
It may look that way now, but what goes around comes around eventually. While you may gleefully "win" the race to the bottom, sooner or later you'll realize that pretty much everybody loses. Including you.
You may not notice the winds changing, but I've been noticing Eastern European programmers doing better work for less money recently. The global economy can be tricky, and your wake up call may come sooner than you think.
Re:I just stole your job and I am proud of it! by Master5000 · 2016-07-12 05:44 · Score: 1

Got me here. I actually am from Eastern Europe. More specifically from Romania.
Re:I just stole your job and I am proud of it! by hackel · 2016-07-12 06:58 · Score: 1

The dollar sign comes *before* the number. That is the difference you get with a native English-speaking developer. That's not always required, but you have *no* idea the extent to which people complain about you guys and your incompetence when it comes to language. You're definitely good for fulfilling certain specific tasks...busywork, mostly. You just have to be explicitly directed like a little puppy, told every specific thing to do and how to do it. No ability to think on your own. If that's the kind of life you want to lead, then congratulations!
Re:I just stole your job and I am proud of it! by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-12 09:09 · Score: 0

Song of the cockroach.
Re:I just stole your job and I am proud of it! by Master5000 · 2016-07-13 02:29 · Score: 1

In reality we also design and implement the system. So no hand holding required. You always like to think of yourselves like so erudite architects but from what I'm seeing most applications are designed and implemented badly. You do bad work, we do bad work. Except we do it cheaper. Get off your high horse.
Re:I just stole your job and I am proud of it! by gzuckier · 2016-07-13 08:20 · Score: 1

HAHAHA it's always funny to see american losers complain. Full disclosure: I am one of the guys that is stealing your jobs and I am enjoying every minute of it. You know why? Because if I make 1500$ a month in my country I am called rich since the average salary is 250$ around here. For you 1500$ is shit. You all want big houses and brand new cars but guess what? You've priced yourselves out of your market. I can do what you can do at least as well if not better for a much lower salary. The corporations win, I win, the Indians win, everybody wins. Everybody except little whiners like you! We operate under extreme pressure and DON'T COMPLAIN! You, on the other hand, are little bitches compared to us. It's all evolution after all. Survival of the fittest. I can live in conditions that you wouldn't even have bad dreams about, I adapt. You die. I and others like me win. Plus, let's not forget that we outbreed you. The end of the western bitches. Bye bye!
How can you outbreed us when you spend all your time working?

--
Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.

Prepare for a Flood of More Malware by macs4all · 2016-07-12 02:33 · Score: 1

Google has announced its new "Android Fundamentals" training program, which aims to train and certify up to two million Android developers in India.

The jokes just write themselves on this one.

Economics of India by Zack63 · 2016-07-12 02:39 · Score: 1

Average age of developed countries is getting older. India has a large young population. I'm sure part of Googles strategy is to tap the Indian market for sales of android. By having Indian developers, they can expand Android in India. The potential market in India is huge. It's not just about cheap labor, but future sales of android.

Good post by Okian+Warrior · 2016-07-12 03:10 · Score: 1

That's an insightful post.

You should have been modded up.

Please No by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-12 03:27 · Score: 0

If they're anything like 95% of the Indians I work with then the software world will be far worse off.

Wow youre naiive by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-12 06:10 · Score: 0

Google is guaranteeing that android is the right choice for corps. My boss recently started loweribg training costs for crane drivers to farcical levels. The aim. To flood the market with cheap crane drivers so he can make more money. Wake up!

Re:Another reason [Christopher Col'dumbass] by Tablizer · 2016-07-12 06:11 · Score: 1

Except he wasn't lost.

If you think you are in India when in fact you're almost opposite of India, you ARE lost. (I wonder if W is related, he invaded the wrong country.)

Chris was a lucky screw-up, Jar-Jar style. My religious mom says Chris was "divinely guided": Christian Midi-chlorians?

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Table-ized A.I.

Oh god... by hackel · 2016-07-12 06:54 · Score: 1

Just wait for the oncoming hordes of people posting stupid questions to Stackoverflow in their painfully broken English!

Re:Indians, huh ? [Garbage code] by Tablizer · 2016-07-12 07:23 · Score: 1

I suspect outsourced code is crappier because orgs that outsource view programming like brick-laying: X-symbols-per-minute, and thus "manage" it that way with no eye on the longer term.

Clueless-in = Garbage-out

Such managers get promoted or change jobs, and some other poor shlub will get stuck managing the pasta.

On the up-side, garbage code means more total coding jobs. On the downside, such maintenance coders are digital sewer workers.

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Table-ized A.I.

Re: Tue, if your company only ever needs one task by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-12 08:04 · Score: 0

When did you start as a junior sysadmin?

ugh, why is the subject line necessary by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-12 08:08 · Score: 0

I think it's hilarious when people try to forecast trends. Who knows what effect this will have on the American software developer. I am moving into management as soon as possible. Currently working as a developer but my company is paying for my MBA. Within 5 years I will be in management as a director. 10 year goal is CIO, CISO, CTO, etc. Staying in development for the long term is a bad idea

Thinking about Black Lives Matter by pat26 · 2016-07-12 08:25 · Score: 1

How about if Google offers the same program in the US to the underserved communities. Better education, better jobs => less crime, less confrontation between police and citizens.

Re:Another reason [Christopher Col'dumbass] by GLMDesigns · 2016-07-12 09:27 · Score: 1

By your reckoning then all explorers are lost. Anybody that explores outside our galaxy is, by your definition, lost. Columbus had the idea to go west and not east to reach India. That took balls as well as brains. Take a look at a map. Columbus had the latitude correct. What was very wrong was the longitude.

Your snarkiness really makes you look bad.

--
If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond

Re:Another reason [Christopher Col'dumbass] by Tablizer · 2016-07-12 10:32 · Score: 1

He made some faulty calculations that with a bit more research or consultation would have been caught. He'd then realize a (real) trip to India would be beyond the capabilities of the ships of the time and give up the project. Other countries rejected his proposal for a reason. It's like pain-killer addicts who keep doctor-shopping until they find a clueless or corrupt doctor to give them more pills.

He did NOT say, "Hmmm, I wonder what's out there", he said, "I'm going to India to make a fortune trading." He was no Carl Sagan.

It was a lucky accident. I'll give him some points for bravery, but stupidity also helped cause the accident. Jar Jar was brave also.

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Table-ized A.I.

Re:Another reason [Christopher Col'dumbass] by GLMDesigns · 2016-07-13 01:07 · Score: 1

It's true that one of the main objections to his voyage was that he underestimated the circumference of the earth (not that he would fall off the edge).

Still. He wasn't lost. The try was worthy. And sailing across the ocean blue took much more than balls. It took brains as well. Notice how few sea faring nations took to the deep ocean over the millennia. The Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, Chinese, Japanese, Indians, Arabs rarely went out of site of land. Most of the early European explorers rarely left shore for more than a few days.

And what was wrong with his motivation - trading with India? He's going to risk his life for what? Pokemon? Tesla (both the inventor and the company) were motivated by money (trading). Fulton was motivated by money. James Watt was motivated by money. Louis Pasteur was motivated by money,

--
If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond

Train USA by Anonymous Coward · 2016-07-13 04:26 · Score: 0

How about training some Americans (US).

Re:Another reason [Christopher Col'dumbass] by Tablizer · 2016-07-13 05:59 · Score: 1

Still. He wasn't lost.

I guess we have very different ideas of what "lost" means. Let's rest that one.

There is no shortage of ballsy zealots in the world. Most just don't get the resources they want to proceed with their hair-brained plans, or die trying and become merely a footnote in history.

Spain just happened to be really eager to find new routes to India because wars and politics were blocking their usual lucrative routes and they missed the money badly enough to gamble some.

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Table-ized A.I.

indian android developers? by gzuckier · 2016-07-13 07:56 · Score: 1

you mean, robots who look like indian people, and develop stuff?

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Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.

Re:Speaking of Google... by gzuckier · 2016-07-13 08:08 · Score: 1

Have you guys Binged Ariel Winter on Google recently?

Wait.... was that a typo?

No but you should Go ogle her on Bing.

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Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.

Re:Speaking of Google... by Ol+Olsoc · 2016-07-13 08:35 · Score: 1

Have you guys Binged Ariel Winter on Google recently?

Wait.... was that a typo?

No but you should Go ogle her on Bing.

Huh, so that's what happened to the little sister on Modern Family. Quite cute, but maybe trying a little too hard.

--
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.

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Google To Train 2 Million Indian Android Developers (thestack.com)

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