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Germany To Require 'Black Box' in Autonomous Cars (reuters.com)

Posted by msmash on from the assume-responsibility dept.

Autonomous cars should be able to account for themselves, that's the thinking behind new legislation proposed by German's transport ministry. The country is planning new laws that require self-driving cars to include a black box, Reuters reports, similar to the flight recorder required on aircraft. From the report: The fatal crash of a Tesla Motors Inc Model S car in its Autopilot mode has increased the pressure on industry executives and regulators to ensure that automated driving technology can be deployed safely. Under the proposal from Transport Minister Alexander Dobrindt, drivers will not have to pay attention to traffic or concentrate on steering, but must remain seated at the wheel so they can intervene in the event of an emergency. Manufacturers will also be required to install a black box that records when the autopilot system was active, when the driver drove and when the system requested that the driver take over, according to the proposals. The draft is due to be sent to other ministries for approval this summer, a transport ministry spokesman said.

11 of 56 comments (clear)

  1. Black box by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    Here we go with the racist comments again. Why not a white box.

    #BlackBoxesMatter

  2. Autonomous cars? by PvtVoid · · Score: 2

    All cars should have black boxes.

    1. Re:Autonomous cars? by Nkwe · · Score: 4, Interesting

      All cars should have black boxes.

      I think that all if not most new cars do have data recorders (black boxes), the question is: What should these data recorders record, and who should have access to the recordings? There is a wide possible spectrum. I would tend to agree with you if we required storage of the last few minutes of mechanical parameters likely to indicate the cause of a crash and make this data only accessible via a court order. I would tend not to agree with you if the data recorders stored months of mechanical data, computer logs, GPS history of where the car has been, video and audio of the drivers actions and or if this data was routinely uploaded to the cloud with no restrictions on access or monetization.

    2. Re:Autonomous cars? by NotInHere · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The usual way to do black boxes is to just record stuff, not sending it anywhere. If there is an accident, the black box data can be read out and the person causing the accident be found out more easily and effectively. That's a good thing IMO. Even if the black box in your own car is used to convict you, its a good system.

      Now, as we live in 2016, probably the black box will be designed in a way that it transmits the data live to the manufacturer, maybe even with kill switches. That's a bad thing, and I don't like it. Or take tesla's ability to OTA update the car software. this is just dangerous.

      So generally, I agree with black boxes, but do not agree with internet connected black boxes. Cars are not planes, they don't get lost at the bottom of the sea. (I do agree with internet connected black boxes for planes).

    3. Re:Autonomous cars? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      If I have read access to all that, I'd gladly opt-in... (I really do want a record for my own personal reasons).

    4. Re:Autonomous cars? by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 2

      Actually, I think the most important question is if the data needs to be sourced independently from the vehicle control logic-- a redundant sensor on the "gas pedal," as an example. I don't get a warm-fuzzy when Tesla says that the user depressed the throttle to 97% without knowing that it is independent.

  3. Misleading headline by drdread66 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    WTF? The headline makes it seem like this is a done deal, but the text makes it clear this is legislation proposed by one of the govt ministries.

    An accurate headline would read "German transportation ministry proposed requirement for black boxes in autonomous vehicles."

    SMH.

  4. Who controls the data and access? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Is it owned by the car owner? Can government or manufacturer access data without due process? In USA, could this be violation of 4th amendment or could car owner turn off data logging? When can the data be demanded: for speeding, running a stop sign, illegal parking, illegal lane change, violating private property (trespassing), or only fatal crash or what? How to prove or determine if data recorded is CALIBRATED and ACCURATE? Speedometer will give wrong reading if different size tires are used. Will insurance companies demand access to set or raise rates?

    1. Re:Who controls the data and access? by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 2

      I would like to see a hard ass judge hold some one from the car manufacturer in contempt of court for trying to pull some NDA / EULA bs.

      Even more so in a criminal vehicular homicide case.

    2. Re:Who controls the data and access? by thoromyr · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If such a device is ever installed on vehicles in the US then, no matter what the rules/laws might be at the time of inception, they will in short order certainly:

      1. require citizens comply with law enforcement request for a data dump
      2. criminalize tampering/disabling logging
      3. be considered infallible by those consulting them
      4. be utilized by insurance companies to obtain discounts

      In the interests of protecting privacy, the interface will be proprietary and secret, thus conveniently preventing owners from doing their own data dumps. A grey market in readers will develop.

      It also would likely form an entry point for: putting GPS on all vehicles to enable ore accurate road taxes; a remote kill switch for public safety (think of Nice, France); and a transponder for emergency assistance/stolen vehicle recovery

      I don't see how anything could go wrong with this

  5. What autonomous cars? by viperidaenz · · Score: 2

    The Tesla cars aren't autonomous. They're a regular car with lane-keep-assist and radar cruise control.

    They can't read street signs or traffic lights, manage intersections, give way, react appropriately to anything that suddenly blocks it's path (like a truck cross the road)

    All they do is keep you in the lane at a safe following distance from the car in front of you and change lanes when you use the indicator.

    If your lane suddenly ends because there are road-works, you crash through the road cones and into the safety barrier they put up.

    There have been zero autonomous vehicle fatalities.