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Florida Regulators OK Plan To Increase Toxins In Water (washingtontimes.com)
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Washington Times: Despite the objection of environmental groups, state environmental regulators voted Tuesday to approve new standards that will increase the amount of cancer-causing toxins allowed in Florida's rivers and streams under a plan the state says will protect more Floridians than current standards. The Environmental Regulation Commission voted 3-2 to approve a proposal that would increase the number of regulated chemicals from 54 to 92 allowed in rivers, streams and other sources of drinking water, news media outlets reported. The Miami Herald reports that under the proposal, acceptable levels of toxins will be increased for more than two dozen known carcinogens and decreased for 13 currently regulated chemicals. State officials back the plan because it places new rules on 39 other chemicals that are not currently regulated. The standards still must be reviewed by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, but the Scott administration came under withering criticism for pushing the proposal at this time. That's because there are two vacancies on the commission, including one for a commissioner who is supposed to represent the environmental community.
Water itself is toxic, it is all the dissolved chemicals that make it safe.
The bottled water industry will be pleased as drinkable tap becomes more scarce all over the US. This is just part of the process. Maintaining a clean water supply is too difficult and expensive. So instead of raising the price, which is totally unjustifiable anyway, it's far easier to let the quality slip.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
And I thought Florida water couldn't taste any worse than it already did....
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
headline should read "Rick Scott's plan to POISON Floridians, you won't believe what happens next"
another serving of GREEN SLIME , please!
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
...is how you get the never ending adventures of florida man.
Silence is a state of mime.
Without all of the data ("two dozen known carcinogens" in an unknown concentration), this could still be a net gain for Floridians. There are plenty of substances that the rest of the developed world believes to be inert in small doses, but that "are known to the state of California to cause cancer" at any dosage. If they are loosening the regulations on some substances using actual data to devise allowable limits, and again using actual data to further restrict those chemicals that are harmful, then perhaps this change is completely above the board, and inline with the best interest of the people. Drinkable water is a disappearing resource, so practical guidelines (do I need to mention using actual data again?), seems a prudent course of action, and this article doesn't provide enough information to determine if these changes are indeed practical or detrimental to consumers.
So it appears Scott is peaved at Governor Synder of Michigan for his taking the lead in poisoning the waters the citizens of his state have to drink and this is his efforts to win back that worst governor in the world award. Its a real battle this year between these guys, Brownback, and Walker, LePage, and just about every other southern governor but actually making people sick looks like a winning strategy, making bankrupting your state look old school.
It is a big shame proper investigative journalism is disappearing, it would be interesting to know which companies that release the toxins whose increased concentration are allowed made contributions to the politicians involved.
The Monte Carlo method is an extremely widely used, proven technique for solving complex optimization and estimation problems. For an environmentalist to make fun of the method like this simply means he is a Luddite with no understanding of science.
As for the raising of limits, without looking at the studies, it's hard to know for sure whether there is anything wrong with them, but the people who did the Monte Carlo simulations at least have some data to support their case. Most of these limits are so conservative that doubling or tripling them would not make any significant difference. Environmentalists may also well be right that increasing, say, benzene levels is motivated by making fracking easier, and that is OK. In the end, environmental regulations are tradeoffs between immediate health concerns and economic concerns, for the simple reason that bad economies kill even more predictably as environmental poisons.
As long as it kills off Florida people
...of course, the fact that EPA limits are still the guideline.
Lower state requirements mean pretty much nothing if the EPA doesn't specifically allow it. And they won't, no matter how much fearmongering some people use.
Adding a limit for otherwise unregulated chemicals is not increasing pollution. Raising a limit for a chemical that was regulated artificially low (and not based on toxicity) is fine.
The linked talks about benzene a bunch. The proposed lowers the limit for Class III (recreation water) and increases it from 1.18ug/L to 2 ug/L for Class I (Drinking water). EPA limit for drinking water is 5 ug/L, for reference.
http://www.dep.state.fl.us/water/wqssp/classes.htm
https://www.epa.gov/ground-water-and-drinking-water/table-regulated-drinking-water-contaminants#one
https://depnewsroom.files.wordpress.com/2016/06/hhc-criterion-comparison.pdf
Florida Regulators OK Plan To Increase Toxins In Water
Under the proposal, acceptable levels of toxins will be increased for more than two dozen known carcinogens and decreased for 13 currently regulated chemicals. State officials back the plan because it places new rules on 39 other chemicals that are not currently regulated.
I believe that Florida is our most naturally toxic state, and of course politicians are always terrible. But just based on the brief description in the linked article, I don't think that this particular policy change deserves to be characterized as "Florida officials vote to poison everyone." It sounds like it actually might be a net gain for environmental safety, though of course without exact data on the chemicals involved and their acceptable concentration before and after, it's hard to say.
What I want to know is, when did these officials stop beating their wives?
Seller of the Big Burke and the Alexa Pure.
If it gives us another Young Turks encounter it could totally be worth it...
The preceding post was not a Slashvertisement.
CUI BONO?
No, seriously, i want to know who lobbied for this and who will benefit from this.
Tap water regulations are usually very strict.
Unless you live in Flint Michigan...
But once you bottle the water it becomes food, and food can contain pretty much anything.
Not even remotely true but thanks for trying. While there is (unfortunately) a lot of wiggle room, food production, marketing, and sales is actually pretty heavily regulated by the FDA and USDA among others.
This is happening TODAY, while Obama is president.
Seems like lot of fervor over getting a little of what you want (regulation of numerous other chemicals) and a little of what you don't want (some increases in allowable levels) which overall is probably a balance with or possibly an improvement on the current situation. It would take quite a bit of research to be sure of what is going on here but from the sounds of it the enviro-fundamentalists are angry that they didn't get everything they wanted (which in some cases is the complete cessation of human existence) as evidenced by the apparent lack of rational arguments (at least those beyond "more chemicals equals bad") and use of outbursts and disruptions during the meeting. Bringing emotions to a meeting that is (hopefully) based on hard science is a good way to get yourself ignored, kind of like bringing "what's right" to a courtroom based on (or at least supposed to be based on) law and precedent.
The linked talks about benzene a bunch. The proposed lowers the limit for Class III (recreation water) and increases it from 1.18ug/L to 2 ug/L for Class I (Drinking water). EPA limit for drinking water is 5 ug/L, for reference.
http://www.dep.state.fl.us/water/wqssp/classes.htm
https://www.epa.gov/ground-water-and-drinking-water/table-regulated-drinking-water-contaminants#one
https://depnewsroom.files.wordpress.com/2016/06/hhc-criterion-comparison.pdf
Hey, data has no place here! Only the emo arguments, either "chemicals are bad", or "bidnesses own government and write their own regs" are permitted. (Both positions are sometimes true, and sometimes false.) To preserve absolutism, we must never consider data!
Show me your credentials. Enthusiasm and passion don't count. I don't give a damn what you have dedicated your life to as far as causes go. The only thing that an unelected regulatory board should have on it is qualified experts whose regulations can at least in theory be assumed to be based in professional experience, verifiable by private individuals with similar qualifications (informal, but substantial education, formal credentials, etc.)
You want to push your activism, push it through the democratic process which elects the people who run the executive and legislative branches.
Under a REPUBLICAN governor who just barely weaseled out of a lengthy criminal prosecution.
Partisan knee-jerk Idiot.
(inset joke about poor urban illegal aliens being invasive species here)
I was expecting that the Florida government would say this was part of their plan to control the alligator population by increasing the chances of them eating only people who have cancer.
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
Class III is all surface waters. It covers fish toxicity / breeding / etc. as well.
It depends on the brands.
Many bottled water companies literally just bottle tap water straight from the faucet.
Some, like Dasani (Coke) will filter it. Look at its label - it says something like 'filtered municipal water'. Guess what that is.
OTOH, when my wife and I stay at the beach, we get bottled because the tap water tastes like shit. When I lived in Boca Raton back in the early 90s, my tap was yellow out of the faucet. (I haven't lived there in over 20 years, so I don't know if it's still true. ) We were actually told NOT to drink the tap water and to drink bottled water. I'd get the purified (RO) or distilled Publix water.
As a former geological engineer working in the environmental remediation business 16 plus years ago, I was responsible for design and construction of groundwater remediation systems at old landfills. Old landfills are notorious as many were just old gravel pits which were filled with garbage. In this garbage would be all sorts of hazardous waste from a time when nobody cared about such things. When looking at Mass Spectroscopy plots I would see hundreds of peaks representing some sort of organic chemical. Many of these could be identified as a pollutant, like benzene, but many were “unknowns”. As long as we met the Maximum Contaminant Levels (MCLs) established by the EPA all was fine, except the water would still contain many “unknowns”. And even if we had identified all the “unknowns” since no MCL was established we were still good-to-go. The treated groundwater had to go somewhere, either re-infiltrated off-site or discharged to a nearby stream or river. Again we had to meet discharge limits, which we did. But everyone knew full well that there were pollutants still in the water. Now what will happen in the future when one of these “unknowns” or unregulated chemicals become regulated? Good question.
Conservative, mod down for violating
That they're going to start having the state senate take a daily swim?
We'll get an economic boost from this. I mean, yes, it'll increase the incidence of cancer, but with something like cancer, there's no real way to trace back exactly why any one individual got cancer, and even if that could be done, there's no way of knowing which company released the particular chemical that caused the cancer, because a lot of different companies will be doing it. And if everyone's responsible, no one is.
To parahrase Nelson from the Simpsons, it's a victimless crime, like punching someone in the dark!
What's the nerd/tech angle on this story.
I can't fap to this!
Where U.S corporations don't pay or pay at least 2% in taxes(loop holes) and as well as get $$$ subsidies(welfare) from the government I'm sure they are not short of $$$ to spend on containing the toxic waste in barrels underneath the ground no where near water reservoirs. But, this is the U.S where the founding bullshit fathers decided on a republic where it's best for only the few(oligarchy) and well connected to run the country because you know if it was democratic it would be self destructive. If you cannot trust the people what is the point of a nation?
The maximum allowed concentration in the table I see is 190000 microgram of 1,1,1âTrichloroethane per liter. That's 190 mg.Liter - 190 *grams* per cubic meter of water. Stay away from that water.... I hope i read that wrong or somebody bungled that. That seem way too high. Heck the PEL (although it is in gas form) is around 350 ppm, or about 1.9 mg per liter of gas (1900 mg per cubic meter). Somebody knowing the vapor pressure (100 mm Hg at 20ÂC) fancy calculating how much would go in the atmosphere near the river at such high quantities ?
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
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visit randi.org
acceptable levels of toxins will be increased for more than two dozen known carcinogens and decreased for 13 currently regulated chemicals. State officials back the plan because it places new rules on 39 other chemicals that are not currently regulated.
I guess leaving the other ones alone and regulating those 39 was too logical of a step to take.
Well Hello Mr. Pot, meet Mr. Kettle.
Politics is a slimy practice, regardless of party affiliation (or non-affiliation). Throwing around accusations (real or imagined) is done for both fun and profit in that business. Best you don't get sucked into the partisan rhetoric or take it too seriously because most of it is trumped up hyperbole designed to get an emotional response to keep existing or develop new voters.
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
point of the matter is that Florida has a $677 million dollar industry fucking up a 82 B illion dollar industry.
And their environment.
And their citizens health.
That doesn't even make sense from a business standpoint, let alone the benefit of society.
But hey, at least the right politicians are getting that sweet bribery, er, lobbying.
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
When revising a list of dozens of chemical limits, some are going to go up, and some are going to go down, and some are added. Overall, there's more chemicals being regulated. It's not clear from TFA that there is anything wrong. There is no expert analysis given in the story.
But shilling for corporate polluters on slashdot is an INDUSTRY!
How much do they pay you for this stuff? You aren't stupid enough to do it for free, are you?
Get this horrible chemical out of our water!
Wanna buy a shirt?
https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
They are also considering raising the sales tax 0.5% to clean the toxic waste out of the lagoons. The left hand doesn't know what the fracking right hand is doing!
:T:R:A:N:S:
Now we know how Florida intends to deal with it's growing population of senior citizens.
... and send it down to Florida.
Woohooo?
That is why they made guns.
string them up
Unity? Screw that: XFCE. Slashdot Beta? Screw that: SoylentNews. Australis? Screw that: Pale Moon. UX developers DIAF
I can't leave it blank because slashdot yells at me. Have you even tried?
Yep, that's bullshit.
It's not already full of toxins? Have you ever BEEN to Florida? The water there smells like shit, more or less literally, shit. The first time I visited there I called the hotel's front desk to tell them there was something horribly wrong with the water in my room and they told me that no, that's just how the water is in Florida. Please feel free to buy one of the $10 bottles of water from the mini fridge. So really this doesn't amount to much since you were probably avoiding drinking the water if you live there, anyway. If anything, the toxic chemicals might actually be an improvement.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
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Why not add the additional chemicals and keep the others at the levels they were?
You could put a single hyphen up there, ya big crybaby.
Unity? Screw that: XFCE. Slashdot Beta? Screw that: SoylentNews. Australis? Screw that: Pale Moon. UX developers DIAF
Pointless. I prefer civilized protest.
to be fair, that might kill off the Zia carrying mosquitoes. http://www.usatoday.com/story/...
Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
Just go hit the water supply of the very rich politicians in Tallahassee and add these same chemicals right up to the limit, in their water. Once their kids show up with Cancer and other interesting diseases, THEN they will be interested in making HONEST laws.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Turns out that in Europe, they have emission laws on cars that requires them to be tigher than Americas, BUT, once past testing, they open it wide up and pollute like they are China. That is why when you look at the CO2 maps from OCO-2, you realize that Europe is actually emitting more than America does.
Basically, nations are cheating when they can.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
This is why I run a whole house filter, followed by water softner, followed by decent filters on drinking water.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
"Florida Regulators OK Plan To Increase Toxins In Water"
Nope. That's not what happened.
Those Florida regulators did not OK anyone's plan to increase toxins in water.
You don't even have to read the article. Just the summary (or a lick of common sense) is enough.
There's no time like the present. Well, the past used to be.
EPA and OSHA limits are only changed after lengthy hearings and debates and only gain force of law when a bill passes both houses of congress and is entered into the federal register. The ACGIH tables are updated frequently and companies that actually do work with hazardous materials follow the ACGIH guidelines. Why when it isn't required by law? Because it protects their workers which is cheaper than killing people. And, the courts have shown that failing to control a "known hazard" makes a company liable for huge penalties even if no "legal limit" was exceeded.
These days the most common culprit for releasing nasty stuff to the environment are small quantity users who stuff the fingers in the ears and go "LaLaLa" if you mention something may be hazardous. Consider the small auto shop. What do you think happens to the solvent in the "parts cleaner" when it gets loaded up with gunk? You either get trichloroethane down the sink drain or dumped on the ground out back.
When you change the oil in your lawnmower, where does the old oil go? BTW, new motor oil is quite benign. But, used motor oil has lead, cadmium, and a soup of VOCs from partially burned fuel in it.
NRRPT/RCT