The New F-35 Is So Stealthy, It's Harder To Train Pilots (airforcetimes.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from the Air Force Times: The F-35 Lightning II is so stealthy, pilots are facing an unusual challenge. They're having difficulty participating in some types of training exercises, a squadron commander told reporters Wednesday. During a recent exercise at Mountain Home Air Force Base, Idaho, F-35 squadrons wanted to practice evading surface-to-air threats. There was just one problem: No one on the ground could track the plane. 'If they never saw us, they couldn't target us,' said Lt. Col. George Watkins, the commander of the 34th Fighter Squadron at Hill Air Force Base, Utah. The F-35s resorted to flipping on their transponders, used for FAA identification, so that simulated anti-air weapons could track the planes, Watkins said.

Comments

Can't turn, can't climb, can't run

[Deep Esophagus]

So you're saying that there's no truth to this story? Where's you're evidence? You have none? Then why should I believe your negative spin?

Always a clever tactic to demand an explanation and then triumphantly declare that the other person has none before any time has passed for replies to be made. Here, let me help you with that "missing" evidence. Have you missed the news for the past eight years? The F-35 program has been dogged at every step by cost overruns, test failures, design-by-committee creeping features, etc.

• * F-35 Fighter can't turn, can't climb, can't run
• * Trillion-dollar F-35 joint strike fighter can't even do dogfights
• * F-35 Program: a danger to US Defense
• * My favorite:How the F-35 could provide 23 years of free college for everyone

I could go on all day, but you get the idea. Just google "F-35" + "waste" + "failure".

Re: Can't turn, can't climb, can't run

[Hylandr]

Huge amount of group think going on here.

The F-35 May have been made invisible to the EMF spectrum used by radar, but there's far more frequencies that it will show up on.

https://tech.slashdot.org/stor...
http://aviationweek.com/techno...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

I like this one. Clutter can be solved with good software.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

And this one is gold:

a series of in-field modifications carried out by the Yugoslavs further reduced the frequency of the 1960s vintage P-18 VHF acquisition radar under Dani’s command, which enabled his men to detect Zelko’s F-117 at a distance of 30 to 37 miles (50-60 km).

*In-field modifications* That's bad-ass.

http://thediplomat.com/2014/08...

Re: Can't turn, can't climb, can't run

[Luckyo]

I recall reading a more detailed account, and the last one is wrong. He later admitted that he was using stock hardware. His secret was in the fact that he had very well trained AA battery teams, who followed strict discipline when it came to things like time for which fire control radar would illuminate the target and had very high morale as they were the most successful AA team in the entire nation.

The biggest problem for Serbs was the sheer volume of strike craft and the fact that you couldn't paint anything without being quickly targeted and destroyed by the plane itself or its allies because of it. Dani's people were trained to illuminate the target only for 20 seconds at a time and then shut the radar down and rapidly relocate no matter what. That meant that HARM based counter-strikes that killed so much AA hardware were ineffective against his batteries. It also meant that his people quickly understood that they weren't being under severe threat of getting randomly killed by air fired missile, which created significant amount of morale and bravery needed to put your neck out to spot, identify, target, paint and shoot at numerous aircraft that all really hate you, want to kill you and have weapons that are specifically designed to kill you.

That got US pilots in the area used to the fact that they were only in danger for ~17 seconds. His shoot down of F-16 later on involved him breaking his own rule and telling the fire control people to keep the radar illuminating the aircraft, pilot of which expected to just jam off the missile once more powerful radar on the ground would turn off and decided to take a HARM shot to see if he could score a kill. He didn't and plane got shot down

I recall similar thing was done to F-117, in that it was killed in a very specific window during which it could be tracked accurately enough for missile to stand a good chance of actually hitting the aircraft. I recall that he said he used a moment when F-117 opened it's bomb bay to get a tentative radar return that this is indeed his target, and then he just directed his powerful fire control radar to illuminate the spot with as much energy as it could pump. You can be stealthy enough to prevent a weapons grade lock on from fire control radar, but when you get bombarded by a fire control radar that already knows where you are because you flashed yourself for it to low quality lock on because spotters took their time to analyze the tactics used and know where to look, missile's logic has a good chance of estimating the range correctly and detonating close enough to kill the aircraft when aircraft is as slow and unmaneveurable as F-117.

According to the leaks, for F-35 the moment when it's "low observable" rather than "stealth" is pretty much any time it's above and ahead of ground radar. It's stealthiness is mainly in the front hemisphere of the aircraft, and rear is far less stealthy. Which means that if it runs into a well trained team like one that Dani led, it's going to have a decent chance to get killed in a similar fashion. And that's when it's in the stealth configuration, which can carry almost no payload. When carrying a proper strike package, it's about as stealthy as most aircraft around, simply because of signal returns from the payload itself.

Re:Really good stealth vs US radar.

[Aighearach]

Low frequency radar has been around for a long time, and no there is no country using that instead of higher frequency radar.

They use that in addition to. And the thing about actual low frequency radar; yes it can detect stealth technology at a higher rate than regular radar. But it doesn't give you a specific position. You're basically using an intermediate radar that is less like a combat radar, and more like a weather radar. It isn't new. In the ancient past they didn't both with that, because they cared mostly about getting an accurate reading to guide missiles. You don't guide missiles with low frequency radar. It is an early warning system, so that when none of your regular radar is showing anything, and something blows up, you know "was that an air attack, or a ground attack, or an accident, or what?" You want that extra tool when the enemy has stealth. You want the command center to be able to have the generals get in the bunker when the stealth bombers invade, even if you can't shoot at them.

Different frequencies of radar have real, physical differences in what they can tell you. There isn't a magic anti-stealth beam yet, sorry kids.