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Wrong Chemical Dumped Into Olympic Pools Made Them Green (arstechnica.com)
Z00L00K writes: [Ars Technica reports:] "After a week of trying to part with green tides in two outdoor swimming pools, Olympic officials over the weekend wrung out a fresh mea culpa and yet another explanation -- neither of which were comforting. According to officials, a local pool-maintenance worker mistakenly added 160 liters of hydrogen peroxide to the waters on August 5, which partially neutralized the chlorine used for disinfection. With chlorine disarmed, the officials said that 'organic compounds' -- i.e. algae and other microbes -- were able to grow and turn the water a murky green in the subsequent days. The revelation appears to contradict officials' previous assurances that despite the emerald hue, which first appeared Tuesday, the waters were safe." I would personally have avoided using the green pools, but that's just me. "Hydrogen peroxide is sometimes used in pools -- often to de-chlorinate them," reports Ars. "Basically, the chemical, a common household disinfectant, is a weak acid that reacts with chlorine and chlorine-containing compounds to release oxygen and form other chlorine-containing compounds. Those may not be good at disinfecting pools, but they still may be picked up by monitoring systems. Hydrogen peroxide can also be used to disinfect pools but must be maintained in the waters -- not a one-time dumping -- and can't be used in combination with chlorine." Apparently, the green water irritates eyes and smells like farts.
/. on the ball as usual with "news"
You don't even need to point to the spot on the doll where the mean /. posters touched you. It's clearly the butt by the way you're unable to sit down.
I do feel the color options for Olympic pools could be greatly expanded. Green and a slight blue are not enough, We should have red pools and purple pools as well. Deep blues and pinks wouldn't go amiss either. But not yellow pools, that might be distracting.
Just happened to have 100+ gallons of hydrogen peroxide sitting around.
More likely, they tried to be clever and use it in an attempt to sanitize the pool after a test for high bacterial load.
What's the point of posting this days late, written the way it is?
Any self respecting nerd has already looked up how H2O2, Cl2, H2O react days ago.
Useful things like posting on Slashdot.
The facts of this story have been "everywhere" for about 5 days, now, and yet it's just made it to Slashdot? Perhaps more Slashdot readers need to step away from Slashdot more often?
They can build decent aircraft but can't figure out how to properly maintain a pool... and for the Olympics no less... geez...
The revelation appears to contradict officials' previous assurances that despite the emerald hue, which first appeared Tuesday, the waters were safe.
How does this work? You don't want tons of algae growing in your pool, but there's nothing particularly dangerous about it. It reduces the ability of chlorine to sanitize the water, which still doesn't make the pools "unsafe", and since they reportedly dumped in a bunch of extra chlorine anyway (that's what was irritating the athletes' eyes)... Again, how does this contradict the officials' previous statements?
I'm not a pool expert, maybe there's something I don't know here, but you can't just throw in a sentence like that and offer nothing to back it up. I even checked the article and everything (going above and beyond here) - nada.
While I don't care what the Athletes themselves do I pretty much have to agree the Olympics are a huge money pit for their hosts. In the Sydney games for example the games not only failed to stimulate economic growth they effectively reduced consumption. At the end of the day the games ended up costing every Australian household around $400...
I'll ring for the waaaambulance.
In the meantime, please do try to come up with something better than, "Anything I don't happen to be interested in doesn't count as 'technology'."
It's green pool water in a place notorious for bad water conditions. It absolutely has nothing to do with technology. I'm not sure what point your trying to make, but poster is correct. This story is not in line with slashdot cannon. "News for nerds stuff that matters" How is this news for nerds? How does this matter? Who does it matter to?
At least calling a waaaaambulance requires telecommunications which is slightly relevant, can we perhaps get a story about something to do with telecommunications instead of 'water turns green' like that is a thing?
This is a silly story, and should not appear here. It lowers the bar and it lowers us being exposed to it.
Delete the entire story, it does not belong on slashdot, it is not technology related
Wasn't L.A. the only one in recent(!) memory to turn a profit?
And that was probably because everything was already there... The Coliseum, Pauly Pavillion, the Sports Arena (RIP), The Forum, the Rose Bowl...
I think the only thing that really had to be built was the aquatic center, and I think USC covered most of that.
General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
The pool used to be blue, like the one next to it.
I learnt in school that when you mix blue and yellow you get green. Did a diving team have an accident in the pool?
Um, no. This is basically putting your fingers in your ears and yelling la-la-la-la-la to avoid hearing the actual science.
Pools are treated with hypochlorite, which is one way to kill bacteria. It's one measure, in addition to filtering systems. Hydrogen peroxide can also kill bacteria, but it isn't used with hypochlorite. The result is the production of water, oxygen, and sodium chloride. Instead of hypochlorite, you'd get chlorine ions in the water. Chlorine ions won't kill bacteria and algae.
Though algae can form in indoor pools, it's more common outdoors. Testing for chlorine in the water didn't reveal anything anomalous, probably because of testing for free chlorine instead of hypochlorite. The conditions allowed the rapid growth of algae, which turned the water green. If the testing didn't reveal anything anomalous, it's possible that the contractor responsible for maintaining the pool wouldn't have noticed. The algae made it blatantly obvious there was a problem. The response was to shock the pool with calcium hypochlorite, which would make it easy to remove the algae. This also increased the hypochlorite in the pool, making it safe again. The fart smell was hydrogen sulfide, a result of the algae. The irritation was from the large amount of hypochlorite used to shock the pool.
The algae caused officials to act, which probably mitigated any impact from microbes in the pool. I'm not convinced the water in the diving well was ever particularly unsafe.
One in every eight public pools inspected in 2008 in the United States was shut down from unsafe and unsanitary conditions. I'd bet that swimming in many public pools is far more like swimming in a toilet bowl than anything that ever happened in the Olympic pool. The real issue is the complete ineptitude of the IOC and their inability to get their story straight. That said, you're probably far more likely to get sick from swimming in a public pools in the United States than swimming in the diving well in Rio. I'd much rather swim in the diving well than a hotel pool, that's for sure.
Unfortunately, there are too many knee-jerk reactions like yours that are based on an ignorance of science.
...Pool supply company Eurinott has announced the release of a new chemical that reacts quickly with chlorine to produce a remarkable and embarrassing colour change when people relieve themselves in your pool.
I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
I have no problem with new venues being built, provided there's a plan to use them afterwards. That means you're not only relying on the Olympics to cover the cost. It can be opening the venue to the public or hosting more events there. It's probably best to focus on cities with many existing venues, though.
The problem is that many of the cities meeting that standard are in the United States. There's a definite IOC bias against the United States, so this isn't an appealing solution. Apparently the United States is no longer good at bribing officials, which is why they lost out on the 2022 World Cup. Never mind, of course, that Qatar has to construct 12 stadiums at immense monetary and human cost while all of the venues in the United States already exist. Many large universities in the United States have venues for their Olympic sports programs, which is an inherent advantage over most other countries.
People would throw a fit if the Olympics were regularly rotated through the United States every 12 years or so. If the IOC focused on reusing existing venues and required plans to reuse new venues, it would fit into the IOC bribe money. It would also favor countries like the United States, and there are too many people with an anti-American bias to let that happen.
Where did it go from green to unsafe?
I understand that smells like fart is not usually a good thing, but is is just a sulfur emanation without any risk of bacterial infection? I'm nor a good chemist nor biologist, so this is where I stop.
Sports shouldn't be out of bounds. There's a lot of interesting technology in use at the Olympics. Many Olympics have had forecast demonstration projects, where competing weather prediction systems are tested against each other. The use of technology to improve officiating is quite relevant. The US collected three years worth of data on the sailing venue to try to improve their performance. The US field hockey team were fitted with sensors to measure exertion so better substitutions could be made. More generally, analytics are being extremely common in sports and nerds are taking over the management positions. And don't get me started on the ridiculously high level of technology in Formula One. This story just isn't that interesting, but there's a lot of sports technology that belongs here.
By the way, Ice Road Truckers is on the History Channel, where it doesn't belong, but if done right, it could be a good program for the Discovery Channel. If the focus was on the harsh conditions and the weather, the unique places that truckers go in the far north, the way of life for those people, and really following the season in a particular locale, it would be great for the Discovery Channel. The real issue is that nearly all of the recent seasons have focused on the drama between truckers and not the real issues with driving trucks on ice roads and the winter roads. The early seasons of IRT and the first season of Deadliest Roads, filmed in the Himalayas, were far better. Maybe it isn't really science, but learning about how the challenges with delivering supplies to remote locales and the geography really is interesting.
I believe that people should diversify their knowledge beyond their immediate area of interest. I understand the need for specialization, but people need to expand their knowledge to other areas.
I'm also really tired of the frequent stories about Hillary's emails and the stupid comments that ensue. There's not going to be any new information that's relevant here. But I'd be far more interested in statistical analysis of the polls and election prediction, which is certainly nerdy.
I have no problem with new venues being built, provided there's a plan to use them afterwards. That means you're not only relying on the Olympics to cover the cost. It can be opening the venue to the public or hosting more events there.
Spot on. It's irrelevant if the venue doesn't break even during the 4 weeks that the Olympics and Paralympics is on. The benefits to the economy as a whole are much more relevant.
London has hosted the games during three Olympiads. The latest one was in 2012. The Olympic Park was built on pretty much a waste land in East London (the poor bit). Westfield built a shopping mall next to the site. That was so popular, they had to restrct access to olympic ticket holders while the games were on to prevent overcrowding. The amount of tourists wishing to pump money in to the UK Economy was so immense that they literally couldn't cope with the demand. This was true of other places in London. Hotels, tourist attractions, etc. On top of that, it raised the profile of the country potentially attracting more tourists for many years to come.
Now the Olympic Park is transformed. The swimming pool is a public swimming pool, and the velodrome is now a public velodrome. The athletics stadium was sold to a local soccer club and is being transformed in to a soccer stadium. The athletes' village is now apartments. The whole area has massively helped with the regeneration that's been transforming what was a very deprived area 20 years ago. All of this far outweighs the revenue from the park over 4 weeks whilst the games were on.
London first hosted the Olympics 108 years ago. Still we're seeing the benefits of that today. The athletic stadium remained an athletics stadium for decades. The area in which it was built was transformed from what was mostly fields into a large suburb of its own. The stadium was demolished and BBC Television Centre was built on the land. A new stadium was built just down the road where it remains today. As the BBC was moving out of Television Centre, Westfield built a shopping mall (see a pattern here), the centre was turned in to apartments and the local economy has boosted.
In fact the only London Olympic Games that hasn't had a lasting impact is probably the only ones that did break even in those few weeks. In 1948, they were hosted on a small budget (what with the war having demolished the country's net worth). The athletics were held in the pre-existing Wembly stadium, and that area is as impoverished now as it was then.
TL;DR An Olympic City which only breaks even during the games is probably much less likely to benefit the city long term than one which makes a loss.
That's why pools today, especially those used at such events, come with automated systems where the water is constantly monitored and chemicals are injected automatically as needed. I mean, WTF is a pool-boy doing manually chucking stuff into the water anyway?
When you do a high profile event in a country run by monkeys.
It's not easy to send bribe money directly from the public coffers to the IOC officials. But if that money gets funnelled through, say, a construction company...
Seriously, I have no idea how or even if the IOC guys are bribed regularly. What I do know is that when assloads of public money is being spent on one-off projects, usually there is money changing hands under the table all along the chain.
If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
4. Profit!!!
In a venue as big as the Olympics. I am wondering how Rio support people couldn't manage to have a knowledgeable staff to maintain the pools? Nothing to me seems more important for achievement then proper equipment. Rio seems to have suffered in many areas from ineffective staffing and maintenance. It's pretty scary when you have Police riding around with automatic rifles and swat gear. I think the Olympic committee needs a better way of choosing a host for the Olympics. Maybe based on existing facilities rather than expecting a host to build so much infrastructure.
We should have red pools and purple pools as well { ...} and pinks
You joke, but there *are* actually red algae that could give warm colours to pool watter.
It's just about waiting that the correct olympic blunders happens....
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
Either that, or its because the Olympics is a total sham and operated by one of the most corrupt organizations in the world.
Yeah really, Chemestry? ...Boorrriiiiing
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Brazil has nice big beaches, full of topless chicks, covering up their butts with shoestring bikinis. Why would anyone want to go to a pool at all . . . ?
Because last time I checked they weren't handing out Olympic diving medals on the beach. I'm pretty sure the "topless chicks" are not much of a draw to the female divers or the gay male divers so there's that too...
How is this appropriate for slashdot instead of a tabloid at the supermarket?
Same thing. Except slashdot has more advertisements for SpaceX
Over the last 15 years, good chemists all over the world have been losing their jobs. Wages have been stagnant for 20 years. Those MBA types keep thinking any jackass can be hired to do the job. Well, this is what happens when you hire a jackass to do chemistry. You get green pools to put out for the whole freaking world to see. And you end up looking cheap and stupid. Well, us chemists are laughing our asses off while we stand in the unemployment line.
spilled his bong in the pool again...
Remember "News for Nerds, Stuff that Matters"? Help make it a reality again! http://soylentnews.org
Didn't 'murican media tell everyone the pool smelled like zika and farts, though? Lol.
We saw Brazilian domination in the shooting events, including over the vaunted Team USA. Though people expected an early Brazilian lead in mugging pairs, Ryan Lochte's humiliating defeat in mugging fours was something none of us anticipated.
"is a weak acid"
Brazilians are not very smart when it comes to water.
Let's be frank. They dump their shit in it.
So now all the swimmers and divers are platinum blonde?
"This pool is a little low. It needs some H20 added. This other pool needs some H20, too."
Exactly,
Look at Utah (where the games made a profit), all our venues are in use year round. and the village became student housing at the University of Utah as planned. During the winter athletes train and compete at the venues but they are also open to the public to enjoy and try out which serves to recruit new athletes to some of the more obscure events (Lake Placid is the home to the only other bob sled and luge track in the country). And during the summer we find uses for the venues as well. The Ski Jump landing slopes became mega water slides during the summer.
The problem is when host cities throw money at getting the games with no plans beyond the closing ceremonies of the Paralympic games. We not only made a profit during the games but had plans for maintaining and using the venues afterwards.
I'm too lazy to compose a creative sig.
This coming from the same people that think Chemistry is not an exact science. It is not surprise to me. Quote: “We first learned that chemistry is not an exact science,” Rio 2016 spokesman Mario Andrada told the AP Friday. Citation: http://time.com/4451260/rio-20...
You need to go read Scientific American. If you don't like a news source for whatever reason, just take it off your list and don't get angry. Now if you own said organization, then you can do something about it and get angry. Otherwise it makes you look like a crazy person.
"organic compounds" = poo
The real issue is the complete ineptitude of the IOC and their inability to get their story straight.
The IOC is used to a culture of hiding things. Everything seems so pretty when bad stuff is swept under the rug. Which is why they can't deal properly with cheaters taking illegal substances - better pretend it didn't happen.
In this case it backfired. If they simply stated that some bonehead used the wrong chemical - and then replaced the water, well it'd be a boring story - quickly forgotten. Instead they got people talking about it, pool hobbyists offering all sorts of explanations, some of them scary.
Because in Latin America, it is very common to hire somebody that seems to be totally qualified for something, and then it turns out they really did not know their stuff that well.
You would think for something like the Olympics they might be able to dig up someone who knows how to treat a swimming poll correctly. You would thing FINA might have had the topic come up once or twice.
I also think the Olympic Committee should have a way to make a country lose the right to host, if things are not ready like 2 months before or something. So that when a host is selected, a backup host with a country that has most of the stuff ready can be selected.
Why would any country agree to be a backup host? They're supposed to spend millions of dollars getting ready for an event that will probably never happen? It's not like the IOC would pay for it. And realistically there really is maybe 2-3 countries who could host something the scale of the Olympics on short notice. The US could do it most easily. Maybe a few countries in western Europe (UK, Germany, France). Maybe Russia or China. Canada for the winter games. But really there just aren't a lot of places with the infrastructure in place already and I can't see them agreeing to the hassle realistically.
I think what really should happen is that there should either be a permanent home for the Olympics (how about Greece?) or a rotating set of cities with already established infrastructure. Spending billions that will never be recouped on a one time sporting event is idiotic.
I'm an engineer with an MBA.
As am I. I went to business school concurrently with my engineering masters to learn how to better manage the projects I work on. Frankly there are a lot of bitter engineers here on Slashdot that are looking for a scapegoat for what they perceive (sometimes rightly) as injustices in the workplace. Blaming "MBAs" is their modern version of blaming Jews or moneylenders as an easily demonized group that in reality has little or nothing to do with the actual problems. It's just tribal scapegoating. There are just as many incompetent engineers as there are incompetent business majors. I run into both almost daily.
I treat anyone who blames "MBAs" with a sort of corollary to Godwin's law. As a discussion progresses the probability of some idiot scapegoating "MBAs" for a problem approaches 1. If they blame MBAs for a problem they no longer have a reasoned argument to make based on actual facts and so they lose the argument and the discussion is over.
Nothing in my studies ever suggested to cut corners for short term profits. It was focused on long term growth strategies and employee development. To remain globally competitive you have to build from within.
This is 100% true. I remember several case studies being used to highlight the dangers of seeking short term profits through financial engineering. The professors took substantial pains to show how short term profit seeking will often backfire long term and damage a company.
The companies that are off shoring functions will most likely find themselves in more trouble a few years down the road.
I've actually done some work in global sourcing and I can confirm this anecdotally. Offshoring tends to result in all sorts of management headaches and quality problems. Send work to China and you'd better have someone actually in China to keep an eye on things. I had a client some years ago who blew up their supply chain and sent work all over the place and only then realized that it caused all sorts of quality, logistics and lead time problems. Not to mention that shipping parts halfway around the world often eats away much of the savings.
I wish they still made those Warwick Davis Leprechaun movies. They could totally have an olympics one, where he dissolves some gold thief in the pool. OMFG, gold thief! The Leprechaun could be in the olympics, and he's pissed that other contestants are winning "his" gold medals. It's perfect; the movie writes itself.
But the last two (no, the last three, but especially the "Hood" ones) totally sucked, so I understand why they don't make 'em anymore. My friends and I were so pissed that the "Hood" ones sucked; within just a few minutes of trying to get over our disappointment after watching the first one, were were making up limerick-raps way better than anything in the movie. Those bastards put in so little effort in the end, and why they made "back 2 tha hood" I can't begin to imagine. Sigh.
So anyway, Warwick, tell your agent that you're up for doing another, but only if they'll do a good job, like in Leprechaun 3 (total classic, best of the series!).
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
OK, I'll bite.
> Did you know that you can make your own hydroponic garden using pop bottles, hydroton clay pellets and an 8 dollar aquarium air pump allowing low income families to grow things like chives in their basic current windows even in winter allowing them to supplement their diet with healthy organic food?
Nope. Link to details?
> Did you know that if you purchase a 20 foot long board from rona that you can create a geodesic dome frame out of that by cutting it into at least 2 peices per board with little waste left over. This has advantages over a shipping container in that you cannot get a large truck into certain areas due to power lines and piece meal over time is more practical than lump sum for most people.
Nope. What's the purpose of this? Storage? Sorry, your description isn't quite clear.
> Did you know that by utilizing a fresnel lense you can heat salt to 800 degrees and combined with magnesium and antimony you can create a molten salt battery capable of far outperforming a standard car battery in terms of storage. When combined with a verticlal wind turbine created by cutting a standard plastic barrel in half you can reduce your energy bill radically?
Nope. Sounds like an interesting project. Details?
They could have turned red.
Have gnu, will travel.
Um, no. This is basically putting your fingers in your ears and yelling la-la-la-la-la to avoid hearing the actual science.
Unfortunately, there are too many knee-jerk reactions like yours that are based on an ignorance of science.
Well, according to the Brazilian official Mario Andrada, "..chemistry is not an exact science". Direct quote.
Bottom line, agreed upon by many experts: they screwed up what should've been a fairly straightforward fix - algaecide and chlorine, not hydrogen peroxide.
How many other Olympic pools have had this issue in the past 25 years?
Look back up at my post, now look back down, you're on the Internet. Now look back up. I'm a signature.
These games just shows how badly organized Brazil is/were to prepare these games. I see this in software development all the time, when a project is badly organized, things are late, patched up and rushed. The end result is visible when released with numerous bugs and shortcomings.
Tired of my customary (Score:1)
When no one was looking, I put a Pee-Detection chemical in the pool water. I thought it would be funny to catch the occasional swimmer peeing by the green watercloud forming around their crotch. What I did not know was that there was already enough pee in the water to turn the entire pool green. Maybe the bathrooms are a long way away, and all those cameras and attention does make people nervous.....
My Bad. Sorry.
Disclosure: My father-in-law maintains the pools at a local University.
This isn't like maintaining your above-ground backyard pool whereby you dump chemicals in by the bucket. These modern pools are computer controlled and have constant monitoring by the systems. As the system detects a change in PH or other imbalance, it automatically adjusts what chemicals are needed to be added. For 99% of maintenance it's about topping off the chemicals in the containers that the system draws from. These pools aren't that heavily used compared to those of a waterpark or other community pool which have hundreds (or thousands) of people in them on a given day.
Another example of how Rio screwed up.
First of all, why would they have all this peroxide just sorta "lying around" for someone to "mistakenly use" in the pool.
This isn't a normal chemical to keep around pools. Ask your local pool to see if they have these types of chemicals around.
Second, why would somebody dump in vast quantities of H2O2 without a signed order from whoever runs the pool?
The reality is almost certainly this:
1) The pool was under filtered and under-pumped
2) The pool staff almost certainly didn't understand how to backwash the sand filter at the pool (sand is common in commercial pools)
3) The staff did not do a good job of maintaining pH
4) Nobody was adding chlorine
The result was the mess you see. It's a CLASSIC problem for people who don't maintain their pools regularly and properly.
I have been on both sides as well as having a front row seat to many companies struggling after a "rockstar" MBA CEO pumped up short term profits at the expense of long term viability.
I can show you even more examples of individuals who never went to business school doing EXACTLY the same thing.
While there are many good MBAs out there, many who were originally engineers, there are also many bad MBAs out there, primarily those who are only MBAs.
MBA is a degree. There is no such thing as a person who is "only MBA". Every one of them has an undergraduate degree in something and most people who earn that degree have several years of experience before they get it. Often business but more often something else. My class had people who had undergrad degrees in film, sociology, engineering, various sciences, IT, medicine, and lots more. There were of course finance, accounting and marketing majors too. We had a few professional athletes as well. All but a handful had at least 4-5 years working experience prior to B-school. I worked as an engineer prior to and after B-school.
The continual parade of once proud tech companies whose CEO chooses to fire half the company and outsource to China and then golden parachutes in 5 or 6 years just before the company crashes and burns after $20M a year bonuses for record profits is virtually unending and very damaging to the workforce and the country as a whole. This sociopathic behavior performed exclusively by MBAs is destroying the country one company at a time.
Complete load of crap that what you describe is "performed exclusively by MBAs". Demonstrably untrue. Some people with a corporate raider mentality have a MBA degree. Many others do not. Having an MBA does not make one a corporate raider any more than having an engineering degree makes one an autistic introvert.
This would force management to discontinue the sociopathic slash and burn corporate raider mentality.
No it wouldn't. It would just change where they do it from and how they do it. They would start basing companies outside the US or change the type of payment or pull other shenanigans. I don't have a problem in principle with your ideas about aligning management pay with long term corporate prosperity but there is no silver bullet on that. It's pretty hard to legislate morality.
Just what we needed THANKS.
Can we buy the paperback from Softpedia?
Isn't Qatar - and other Middle Eastern OPEC countries - the only ones who can then afford to host the Olympics outside the US? Since they have money to burn, and this, while not completely productive, is more useful than funnelling cash to Sunni rebels in Syria
Before the Olympics, Brazilians have never heard of the word "chlorine".
That's how inexperienced they are with water management.
They enjoy swimming in their own shit.
I would much rather Qatar burn its oil windfall money on Olympics than on funding ISIS and other "moderate" rebels in Syria. At least wasting the money on Olympic stadiums does not kill thousands of people like is happening in Syria
And in the UK we waste millions of lottery money on sports instead of giving it to charities like they were supposed to. Since when did sport become a charity?
Algae isn't dangerous, plenty people swim outdoors. You don't need to chlorinate what you swim in.