Google Begins Rolling Out Android 7.0 Nougat (venturebeat.com)

An anonymous reader writes: Google today started rolling out Android 7.0 Nougat to existing Nexus devices via an over-the-air software update. This is a gradual rollout: The Nexus 6, Nexus 5X, Nexus 6P, Nexus 9, Nexus Player, Pixel C, and General Mobile 4G (Android One) will all be updated, but " it may take several weeks" before everyone gets the latest and greatest, a Google spokesperson told VentureBeat.The Nexus 5 (2013), which packs in a Snapdragon 800 SoC coupled with 2GB of RAM and 5-inch full-HD display, won't be receiving Android Nougat update -- despite having all the hardware capabilities required for a phone to receive Google's latest OS update. The truth of the matter is if Google wanted to update the Nexus 5 with the latest Android software, it could have. It just chose not to. It's very likely that same will be the case for the Nexus 6, a phone that has 3GB of RAM, and Snapdragon 805 SoC, next year when the company releases Android O update.

Comments

Do we nned it?

[Ragnarok89]

I can't say I've seen the benefits from v5 to v6...

Re:Do we nned it?

[ilsaloving]

Are you serious? v6 introduced Doze mode, which help battery life. v7 extends Doze mode further, which means it should finally be possible to use an android phone for more than a day without needing to somehow shoehorn an absurdly large battery.

Android 6 also finally introduces various privacy features, so you can choose what access you are willing to grant to an individual application. Up until v6, Android was a identity thief's wet dream, cause a developer could request ridiculous amounts of access from your device, and the permission warning screen was confusing enough that most people ended up just ignoring it in the same way they ignore "Agree to our ToS" screens.

It also marks the point where Google has finally pulled it's head out of the sand and realized that it cannot rely 3rd party manufacturers to properly support their devices, and is taking back control of things like updates, and whatnot.

I can only hope that all this means the desperately needed end of the "Landfill Android" era.

Re:Do we nned it?

[gTsiros]

what benefit will that give when most of the energy is consumed for the display?

even if ALL the rest magically started consuming HALF of what they do now (which this fancy "doze mode" can not even dream to achieve), you'd still only see a 25% battery time increase at best.

Re:Do we nned it?

[Anonymous Coward]

My experience has not been that most of the energy is consumed by the screen. Screen is often times (but not always) the single largest consumer, but that's still not even near 50%. In my experience, if everything else used half as much energy, I'd probably get about 40% or so increase in battery life. Screen usually hovers around 15% on mine, but maybe it hits 20% if I use it a lot on some days.

Re:Do we nned it?

[Anonymous Coward]

%25 seems pretty awesome.

Re:Do we nned it?

[gTsiros]

yeah, that's what it says on my device, too. 21%

however, the total doesn't reach 100%. More like 40%

the simplest conclusion from that is that the indicated percentage is untrustworthy

Re:Do we nned it?

[gTsiros]

yeah, 25% is quite significant

however, that's for the completely ideal case i described.

be happy if you notice any actual difference at all

Re:Do we nned it?

[Anonymous Coward]

I can only hope that all this means the desperately needed end of the "Landfill Android" era.

The landfill will be full of Nexus 5 models. What they have seen with their camera sensors we people wouldn't believe. Car tires on fire at the shores of the New Jersey. They have watched Wifi-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser Gate fast food joint in Texas. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears...in...rain. Time for them to die.

Re:Do we nned it?

[swillden]

what benefit will that give when most of the energy is consumed for the display?

That depends on your usage model, and on your display settings (most importantly, how long the screen stays on when you're not using it).

For most people the display is the biggest single consumer of power, but the combined radios (cellular & Wifi) are almost as big, and radio + CPU power consumption is considerably larger than display consumption. Doze mode conserves radio and CPU power, and for most people does provide a big increase in battery life.

This isn't the case if, for example, you spend a lot of time playing (CPU-light) games or reading books or other uses that keep the screen on for hours but don't use a lot of CPU or data. In that case, Doze mode won't do you much good because you're keeping the screen turned on all the time.

you'd still only see a 25% battery time increase at best.

A 25% increase is huge. The way batteries are sized in phones, most users get around 12 hours or so. Say, 6AM to 6PM. If you increase that by 25% you now get 15 hours which is very close to a full day. Make it 30% and you have a device that only needs to charge while the user is sleeping, in most cases. Given that most smartphone users have already arranged to plug their phones in at various points in the day (while commuting, etc.), even a 20% increase in many cases is enough so users find that their phone always has plenty of battery.

Re:Do we nned it?

[AmiMoJo]

Doze is awesome. My 3100mAh phone can easily do two days of heavy use now, more if I stretch it. I've been using RDP a lot today and it's on 62% at nearly 10 PM.

Re:Do we nned it?

[gTsiros]

https://slashdot.org/comments....

second, phone use isn't the same every day. One day you might not even get 8 hours of battery life, others you might get two days because you happened to not use it much.

couple that with the above and you'll understand why i said you'd be luck if you even perceived any difference.

Re:Do we nned it?

[Anonymous Coward]

Google has not taken their head out of the sand. Gmail app on Android 6.0 still nags me EVERY TIME I send a mail that it doesn't have access to camera and microphone. WAT? I can't think of any valid reason for gmail to have those permissions.

Go home Google; you're drunk.

Re:Do we nned it?

[non0score]

Let me rephrase your concern: "what benefit will X be for use case Y when X is designed for use case Z?"

Well, yes, not a whole lot use when your use case is Y. But if your use case is Z, then it sure helps a lot. Your statement is also a lot like saying "why would I need an ignition switch on my car if every time I use my car it needs to be running anyway?" Well, yes, except you're not always driving, right? And for a lot (if not the majority) of people, their phones' screens are more often than not off between charges.

Re: Do we nned it?

[Anonymous Coward]

plenty of benefit.

however, they could just have fixed it in the previous version of android as well. and actually given the device admin apis functionality without needing specific manufacturer keys to access(you need this functionality to remove bloatware, enable proper fw etc). the system to enable the user to grant the permissions exists and worka just fine. it just doesnt do fuck all nothing without manufacturer keys so why the fuck have it there..

the real problem is of course that something that gets released and then gets typically sold for 12 to 18 months. leaving a budget minded consumer with just 6 to 18 months of updates and support.

apple was still selling fresh iphone 5s's in june for example.(old models are the economy apple models. they stop receiving updates as if they were only sold when they were freah models though)

Re:Do we nned it?

[gTsiros]

a better counterexample would be "why do cars need light switches? i only drive during the night and i have them permanently on"

Re: Do we nned it?

[non0score]

Exactly illustrates my point. Lots of people drive during the day, and it'd be an awful waste if that light is a 50kW bulb...

And in case you didn't know, the biggest possible battery hog isn't the screen or antennas - it's the CPU. It's just that most of the time it's idle; and when it's busy, it often overheats and slows down.

So to address your original point: Snooze is great for those shitty apps (read: *cough*Facebook*cough*) that wakes up your phone every 5 minutes to phone home...I meant, to "update itself to bring you the best experience."

Re:Do we nned it?

[Chalnoth]

The main thing that the doze mode does is make it so that while your phone is sitting in your pocket, it uses almost no battery. With older Android phones, they rarely last much more than a day without draining the full battery even if you don't use them much. With an Android M or N OS, the devices should last a few days with light usage.

This feature provides little to no benefit for battery usage while the phone is being actively used.

No problem

[110010001000]

Just keep on pumping out those new versions, Google. No need to support old hardware. They can just throw their 3 year old hardware in the trash. Very Earth friendly. And no need to port security fixes over either. Android owners know their phones are all "pwned" anyway.

Re:No problem

[LichtSpektren]

Older Android versions still get security releases.

Re:No problem

[110010001000]

Sure they do! Sure they do!

Re:No problem

[LichtSpektren]

Android 4.4 and 5.1 got security updates a month ago: https://android.googlesource.c...

Granted, OEMs and carriers are probably blocking those from getting to 99% of peoples' phones, but that's not Google's fault.

Re:No problem

[LichtSpektren]

Sorry, you're going to need to back up "99% of people are now running pwned phones" with some facts (which are to be distinguished from the refuse coming from your ass).

Google patches their OS. OEMs and carriers don't send them downstream, and there's nothing Google can do about it because Android is FOSS and you can do whatever you like with it. The fact that iOS is restricted and closed gives the illusion that iPhones have better security, but if anybody could sell iOS devices beside Apple, their ecosystem would look just as bad.

Re:No problem

[CastrTroy]

Compare this to desktop machines though. Microsoft of Ubuntu or whoever makes your OS can issue updates. As soon as those updates are made available, you can update your desktop computer. You don't have to wait for HP, Dell, or anybody else to allow you to make that update to your desktop computer. Why can't phones work the same way? When Google updates Android, I should be able to apply that update, and the manufacturer of the device should have no control over whether or not that update is applied.

Re: No problem

[Anonymous Coward]

Phones can't work the same way because the hardware isn't commoditized in the same way. It all goes back to this sset of open standards around a little thing called the IBM PC...

Re:No problem

[LichtSpektren]

Compare this to desktop machines though. Microsoft of Ubuntu or whoever makes your OS can issue updates. As soon as those updates are made available, you can update your desktop computer. You don't have to wait for HP, Dell, or anybody else to allow you to make that update to your desktop computer. Why can't phones work the same way? When Google updates Android, I should be able to apply that update, and the manufacturer of the device should have no control over whether or not that update is applied.

Well, if you bought a phone with an unlockable bootloader, you can flash whatever OS you want on it. As I wrote elsewhere, even the original Galaxy Nexus from 2011 can get the Cyanogenmod equivalent of Android Marshmallow this way.

But the main "problem" (if you want to consider it so) with Android is that it's a FOSS platform. Apple and Microsoft heavily strangle their respective closed platforms so that OEMs and carriers can't do anything to interfere with Apple's and Microsoft's business (aside from, in the case of Windows, pre-installing bloatware). But since anybody can legally install Android on anything, Google can't use the same kind of leverage. Well, that's a good thing, I say. It means I'm not on Google's leash.

Re:No problem

[Anonymous Coward]

Nothing google can do? Keep on keeping.

Re:No problem

[LichtSpektren]

Nothing google can do? Keep on keeping.

I'm not sure what that's supposed to mean, but what do you suggest Google does? Close the source on Android? That defeats its primary advantage over iOS -- nobody can beat Apple at being Apple.

Re:No problem

[MachineShedFred]

Sure. But do those releases ever actually make it to end user devices?

Predominantly, no. Because the Android ecosystem is such that device manufacturers have to incentive to keep old devices working - there is no margin in it. They would much rather you buy a new device that they already have the new software on, and they get money for developing.

Re:No problem

[mrchaotica]

Well, if you bought a phone with an unlockable bootloader, you can flash whatever OS you want on it. As I wrote elsewhere, even the original Galaxy Nexus from 2011 can get the Cyanogenmod equivalent of Android Marshmallow this way.

But the main "problem" (if you want to consider it so) with Android is that it's a FOSS platform.

No, you've got that backwards: the problem is that phone hardware should be required by law to be unlocked so that their owners can control their property.

Re:No problem

[spacepimp]

CArriers and OEM's have both decided that the need to be in the middle of this to be able to guarantee Qualit of Service. The same way Bell Atlantic phones wouldn't let you install a phone line in your own home, or even use hardware other than what they sold. It is a control mechanism when Apple does it to Telcos, and it is a control mechanism when Verizon or HTC decide to not push out the new OS or updates.

Re:No problem

[romiz]

There are no security updates for Nexus 4, sold by Google itself from November 2012 to November 2013. The last update was offered on September 2015, not even 2 years after the last sale. It looks like the Nexus 5 is going to reach the same state soon.

And there is no carrier or OEM to blame here...

Re:No problem

[Anonymous Coward]

That used to be more true than it is now. I take it you haven't noticed the core features migrating into standalone apps that get updated through the play store.

They did that in large part because the carriers were refusing to release updates to fix security holes.

Re:No problem

[CastrTroy]

The problem is that even if I had an unlocked bootloader, I'd still be relying on a third party, CyanogenMod, to provide me with updates. Google needs to fix things so that I can get updates directly from them, without relying on CyanogenMod, Samsung, or whoever else. Google can't stop you from installing Android, but the Google Play services that include the App store are not a part of the open source Android platform are under their control. They could make it a requirement that anybody installing the Google Play Store on the device allow Google to push updates to the phone.

Re:No problem

[LichtSpektren]

And not a cited fact was to be seen....

Re:No problem

[LichtSpektren]

I agree with you, I would appreciate a law to that effect. But for the time being, here's why iOS looks to be in better shape than Android: because any OEM can put an ancient version of Android on any piece of crap hardware and never update it, whereas you're going to get Psystar'd by Apple if you attempt to do the same thing with iOS.

If we're going to be fair in an Android vs. iOS battle, we should really keep the price point in mind. iPhones receive official updates longer than Nexus phones, but (a) Nexus phones are roughly half the price, and (b) you can flash Cyanogenmod on a Nexus phone and have it last longer than an iPhone does.

Re:No problem

[110010001000]

I got that from you: "Granted, OEMs and carriers are probably blocking those from getting to 99% of peoples' phones,". Duh.

Re:No problem

[Anonymous Coward]

nobody can beat Apple at being Apple.

Oh, really? There are fucKtons of overpriced POS kits around. Monsters cables anyone?

Re:No problem

[110010001000]

I once heard one guy say "Granted, OEMs and carriers are probably blocking those from getting to 99% of peoples' phones, but that's not Google's fault." He was admitting that 99% of peoples phones weren't getting updates.

Re:No problem

[ilsaloving]

GP may be a smidge hyperbolic, but not by much. And IMO Google does hold some blame for this. They have the power to enforce good behaviour, but don't. At least, they haven't been up till now. I've read rumblings about them wanting to take back some control of android, but I don't know details or timeframe.

True, there's nothing to be done with the crap hardware put out by two-bit companies, but for big companies such as Samsung, etc, who subscribe to Google's value-add services, Google could have very easily added into the contract that these downstream companies are obligated to provide fixes for bugs and security issues on their devices.

It's to Google's discredit that they didn't, and now the overwhelming majority of handsets in the world are badly exposed to various security issues that will never be fixed, cause the companies that made them feel no pressure to support their products. Heck, the last time I checked android stats, a sizable majority of handsets still use some flavour of Android 4.x. Good luck getting updates for those, unless you are lucky enough to root your device and replace the OS with cyanogenmod or something similar.

Re:No problem

[unixisc]

Just keep on pumping out those new versions, Google. No need to support old hardware. They can just throw their 3 year old hardware in the trash. Very Earth friendly. And no need to port security fixes over either. Android owners know their phones are all "pwned" anyway.

I agree. Marshmallow was optimal, having introduced the capability of swapping the primary & secondary storage definitions. Nougat (wasn't it nutmeg?) should focus on being upgradable from Icecream sandwich, honeycomb, kitcat, and before.

Re:No problem

[tgv]

You really are part of the problem, aren't you? You first have this passive aggressive "YOU MUST BACK THIS UP OR ELSE" attitude, and then casually admit that it's true, but it's not Google's fault. And that's ignoring the absolutely non-backed-up statement about iOS.

Are you sure there's nothing Google can do? Are you sure Google doesn't have agreements with phone manufacturers about customizaton? Are you sure Google doesn't own the trademark for Android and can forbid basically anyone of labeling their phone an Android phone? Well, no, you are not. So Google could just as easily have started to force them to provide updates. But no, that would not be in the shareholder's interest.

And you get a +5 informative. Really. The levels of corporate shilling are astonishing.

Re:No problem

[non0score]

There are two types of updates which I think we're confounding: one is security updates, and another is OS upgrades. At least as of now, security updates are being forced through. So as long as you have a relatively recent version of Android and a phone with some sort of reputable brand, you get those regularly (just like your Windows/Ubuntu example).

On the other hand, version upgrades are mostly wild wild west-style of approach. And in this regard, it's a lot less different from Windows than you'd think (as for lowest-common-denominator-Linux in general, well, you don't see many good games on there, do you?). When Windows Vista launched, the minimum requirement was DX9. If you didn't have a DX9 card, you're SOL for the most part. But this is also the part where some PC hardware manufacturers have done very well (compared to phones) -- they provided continual driver updates. Can't say the same for phone hardware manufacturers (which is probably why the N5 wasn't updated).

Re:No problem

[BESTouff]

But the main "problem" (if you want to consider it so) with Android is that it's a FOSS platform. Apple and Microsoft heavily strangle their respective closed platforms so that OEMs and carriers can't do anything to interfere with Apple's and Microsoft's business (aside from, in the case of Windows, pre-installing bloatware). But since anybody can legally install Android on anything, Google can't use the same kind of leverage. Well, that's a good thing, I say. It means I'm not on Google's leash.

Ubuntu is also a FOSS platform, and it has no problem updating without the PC manufacturer consent.

Re: No problem

[Anonymous Coward]

google has already messed with features in security updates(non major versions disabling features that allow easier control if your device without rooting0

Re:No problem

[jeremyp]

My thoughts as well, but actually, you are pretty much tied in to what Canonical makes available on their apt repository (or whatever) unless you have a bit of technical ability.

Re:No problem

[LichtSpektren]

I got that from you: "Granted, OEMs and carriers are probably blocking those from getting to 99% of peoples' phones,". Duh.

Yeah, there's a huge difference between "99% of phones don't have all requisite security patches" and "99% of phones are pwned".

After a vulnerability is discovered, it needs to be weaponized in the form of an exploit, and then it has to execute on a vulnerable phone.

The vast majority of Android vulnerabilities require installing a malicious app. Since only a minuscule few of those slip through the Google Play Store, that means a user has to change their default setting of disallowing third-party apps from being installed. I doubt the vast majority (or even a significant portion) of users do this, so 99% of phones without security patches does not instantly translate to a botnet of billions.

The only vulnerability I'm aware of that doesn't require installing a malicious app is Stagefreight, which can be executed with an MMS. But lots of texting apps have gone ahead and mitigated that without an Android patch, and furthermore it doesn't appear anybody has succeeded in automatizing it for mass attacks.

Re:No problem

[tepples]

you are pretty much tied in to what Canonical makes available on their apt repository (or whatever) unless you have a bit of technical ability.

Technically, it does take "a bit of technical ability" to copy and paste a PPA URL into Start > Settings > Software & Updates. But how does this "bit of technical ability" compare to what people normally do with a PC?

Re:No problem

[LichtSpektren]

My thoughts as well, but actually, you are pretty much tied in to what Canonical makes available on their apt repository (or whatever) unless you have a bit of technical ability.

Nonsense. Whatever you want to install just needs to be put into a .DEB package. For example, installing Steam from Valve's website is just a matter of "download and double-click."

Google's management quality is degrading rapidly.

[Futurepower(R)]

"The truth of the matter is if Google wanted to update the Nexus 5 with the latest Android software, it could have. It just chose not to."

Trying to forcing people to buy new phones, apparently. That's sad. Google's management quality is degrading rapidly.

The highest failure rate component in a smart phone? The battery. And phone makers are making phones with batteries that can't be replaced.

Re:Google's management quality is degrading rapidl

[XanC]

Well, they really can; you just have to open the thing up.

Re:Google's management quality is degrading rapidl

[LichtSpektren]

That line seemed to be the submitter's personal opinion and not backed up by anything in the linked article.

We don't know why Google didn't push an update for the Nexus 5.

Damn you Google

[Artem S. Tashkinov]

The Nexus 5 (2013), which packs in a Snapdragon 800 SoC coupled with 2GB of RAM and 5-inch full-HD display, won't be receiving Android Nougat update

iOS haters always say that you should only buy Google approved(tm) Android devices to stay up to day, and here it is, Google shitting on you. A perfect by today's standards device is no longer receiving updates because ... because nothing. An organization which earns billions of dollars every quarter cannot afford to maintain its older but perfectly capable devices.

Hopefully one day Android will become a true OS vs. what we have now: basically a heavily modified lego for each and every device. There's no Android OS which you can throw at a random ARM device and have it running with all the components functioning properly (camera, WiFi, 3G/4G, sensors, storage, etc.)

Re:Damn you Google

[LichtSpektren]

Who says the Nexus 5 isn't getting updates anymore? It's not getting Android 7, but Google updates older OS releases, just like Apple still gives security updates for macOS 10.9.

Re:Damn you Google

[Anonymous Coward]

My mother in law's 2011 iPhone 4S will get next version of iOS, but a nexus 5 device only a generation behind won't get latest Android ? Do I have to mention 5.0 (there was never even a mention of 6.0 for that particular device) on 2012 device (Nexus 7) is unbearable and not in iOS 9 on iPhone 4s way.

Re:Damn you Google

[Artem S. Tashkinov]

I perfectly understand that.

For most unsavvy people though, "no new major OS update" = "no updates at all".

"Your phone isn't running Android 7.0? Wow, what a turd!"

Re: Damn you Google

[Anonymous Coward]

No it won't. It will get a trimmed down version with a bumped version number to keep the sheeple happy.

Re:Damn you Google

[EvilSS]

Yea I learned my lesson with the Galaxy Nexus. Like all their other products Google is happy to drop it when they get bored and move on. Screw that. I've had better luck with Motorola but I don't expect that to be the case going forward either now that Lenovo has fully assimilated them.

Re:Damn you Google

[Anonymous Coward]

FUD. You'll still get updates and if this were Apple it would be bogging down your 3 year old phone so badly that it would never work. So go back to AppleLand, fanboy. We don't need your lies here.

Re:Damn you Google

[cdrudge]

Google shitting on you

It's not shitting on you when it's their policy for 3 years of security updates and 2 years of major OTAs.

There's no Android OS which you can throw at a random ARM device and have it running with all the components functioning properly (camera, WiFi, 3G/4G, sensors, storage, etc.)

As oppose to iOS that you also can't throw at random ARM devices and have it running with all it's components functioning properly?

Both Android and iOS are compiled for specific hardware. Apple decided to lock down their OS for only their hardware, and Android decided to open it's OS to work with any hardware a manufacturer wants to support. One isn't better than the other, they are just two different philosophical approaches to the same issue of developing an ecosystem.

Re:Damn you Google

[danbob999]

Which Moto device had better updates (quick and up to date) for a 3 years old device?

Re:Damn you Google

[cdrudge]

For most unsavvy people though, "no new major OS update" = "no updates at all".

"Your phone isn't running Android 7.0? Wow, what a turd!"

For most people (and the typical /. reader is not in that group), they couldn't tell you what OS version their phone (Apple or Android) was running. They're going to see that they periodically have an update and think their phone is more or less up to date software wise.

Re:Damn you Google

[LichtSpektren]

I perfectly understand that.

For most unsavvy people though, "no new major OS update" = "no updates at all".

"Your phone isn't running Android 7.0? Wow, what a turd!"

Um, alright? And that's better than people with the iPhone 6s Plus 128GB mocking other iPhone users for having inferior devices?

Re: Damn you Google

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, what you say is true... in a way. Though trimmed down version would be necessary for lack of hardware support and disabled features can be named, while the whole experience is like the current version of iOS (I can compare both Nexus 7 and iPhone 4s/iPad 2 devices). Nothing like the failure Nexus 7 is with Android 5.1......

Re: Damn you Google

[Anonymous Coward]

No it won't. It will get a trimmed down version with a bumped version number to keep the sheeple happy.

Nope, no such thing happens on the iOS side. Developers see the complete API for a given iOS version on supported devices, there is no such things as a trimmed down version of iOS.

That said the GP is wrong. The 4S will not get iOS 10.

Re: Damn you Google

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry my bad. Finally they've stopped supporting their 2011 platform. Still stubborn enough and keep their 2012 platform on, though the only one being 32bit only.... While Google move forward and throw down the drain their previous generation platform or platforms or wait, they've done this last time, right ? I'm confused.....

Re:Damn you Google

[EvilSS]

My Moto X 2013 was upgraded from J all the way to L as opposed to my Galaxy Nexus that was upgraded to.... nothing. 18 months and they abandoned it. My X Pure will get M and (hopefully) on more beyond that, but again, Lenovo. I'm less concerned with how fast vs ever getting them. Google has burned me once with the Nexus line. Done with that.

Re:Damn you Google

[Anonymous Coward]

Fancy that, Another Apple fanboy. Get out of here. We don't need you.

Re:Damn you Google

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd call it a firmware construction kit, but Lego works too. Definitely not an OS though.

Re:Damn you Google

[BradleyUffner]

The Galaxy Nexus was screwed over by Verizon and others over the NFC Payment functionality. They had a competing payment system, known as ISIS at the time, that they were pushing. They held up the launch of the Galaxy Nexus for months until it was no longer a flagship phone. By that time the user base was small and frustrated, it wasn't really worth the continued support.

Re:Damn you Google

[Anonymous Coward]

The Moto X 2013 L update was released almost a year late. Full deployment of Android 5.1 didn't happen until June of 2015. Android 5.0.2 was released in March of 2015 on a few carriers, but pulled due to bugs and performance problems. At least they eventually did push Android 5.1.

The Moto X 2014 US carrier versions aren't getting updated to Android M. Lenovo/Motorola abandoned it after less than 1 year. It was advertised as receiving VoLTE support in the fall of 2014 shortly after release. It still doesn't have VoLTE.

Lenovo's said they won't provide the monthly security updates. They're having trouble fulfilling warranty replacements.

Re:Damn you Google

[Anonymous Coward]

Your average Nexus buyer is probably a little more informed than your average Android buyer, but by and large most people have no idea what version of Android they are running and they don't care.

Re:Damn you Google

[Anonymous Coward]

You clearly don't get to talk to unsavvy people very much if you think they go around discussing which version of android is on their phones...

Re:Damn you Google

[danbob999]

The Galaxy Nexus received many updates. It launched with Android 4 and was updated up to version 4.3. The Galaxy Nexus was released in 2011. Two years before your Moto X.
J to L is only two updates.

Re:Damn you Google

[cdrudge]

Do you have any reading comprehension skills? How does anything I said indicate I'm an Apple fanboy? In reality, I'm much more an Android fanboy then Apple.

Re:Damn you Google

[EvilSS]

Galaxy Nexus was a bit over 18 months old when J came out, and Google decided to abandon it. Not sure why it coming out before the Moto X would come into play there. Not to mention the GNex was a massive pile of shit of a phone to begin with. So yea, I'm not buying another Nexus because Google can, and has in the past, decided they just can't be bothered with the older devices.

Re:Damn you Google

[EvilSS]

What idiot buys carrier android phones and expects updates?

Re:Damn you Google

[Anonymous Coward]

These were sold by Motorola directly as well as the carriers. Unfortunately, at the time the Moto X 2013 was released, there were no non-carrier specialized phones for Verizon. The Moto X 2013 GSM unlocked version did not work on the CDMA networks in the US.

Re:Damn you Google

[EvilSS]

Stay off CDMA networks if you want an unlocked phone. Verizon used their CDMA network as an excuse to block non-Verizon devices for years until the spectrum auction terms forced them to start accepting them on their new bands. The reason I bought the Nexus, and then the unlocked X 2013 and X Pure was specifically because i saw how carriers were fucking up the upgrade cycles on Android.

Re:Damn you Google

[danbob999]

You said the Galaxy Nexus was updated to nothing. It is just plain false. It received more updates than the Moto X 2013.

Re:Damn you Google

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, expecting an Android shitphone to be secure is being an idiot now. You trolls are hilarious.

Re:Google's management quality is degrading rapidl

[Higaran]

That is googles right, they are a for profit company, and does anyone realistically expect them to support a phone forever, especially when they've released 3 different phones since then. Besides they aren't forcing a damn thing, if you like your old phone with the software already on it then keep your old phone. If you want the new OS then get a new phone. What were you expecting, for google to give you updates until the the end of time?

Re:Google's management quality is degrading rapidl

[Anonymous Coward]

Trying to forcing people to buy new phones, apparently. That's sad. Google's management quality is degrading rapidly.

Is Apple's method better? Make the OS require so much more horsepower that 2 year old phones couldn't even run it if they wanted to?

Re: Google's management quality is degrading rapid

[Anonymous Coward]

Veteran iPhone user, here. I'm on my 3rd iPhone (3G, 4S, 6) and I've never had any problems with the batteries degrading over time. The only thing apple has done to us is make the OSs so heavy that you eventually get angry and buy a new phone.

I was already planning to upgrade to the 6 when iOS 8 came out, but it crippled my 4S and so I went out right away and got the new one. I left the 4S in a drawer "just in case."

A few weeks ago, I upgraded the 4S to iOS 9.latest and BOOM it works like a charm again. Looks like iOS 8 was just a turd.

The /. crowd likes to hate on Apple, but their phone ecosystem is quite well-supported: everyone gets updates for reasonably-recent phones (iPhone 4S was released in 2011... 5 years later still getting updates), and it's not just more bloat. The 4S experience described above kind of blew me away. The phones are arguably expensive, but their decent specs actually result in a device that is enjoyable to use because it doesn't feel slow. (I've used some Android tablets with impressive specs and they still perform like dogs.)

Re:Google's management quality is degrading rapidl

[Anonymous Coward]

-- We don't know why Google didn't push an update for the Nexus 5.

Yes we do.
For the same reason they bricked my Nexus 1 and refused to patch the permanent fault.
For the same reason that I have stopped buying the next Nextus. [fuget the Lastus.]

WILL THIS AFFECT MY POKEMONS?

[Anonymous Coward]

I NEED TO KNOW!

Re:Google's management quality is degrading rapidl

[LichtSpektren]

You're right. But I also would like to point out that probably the best reason to buy a Nexus phone is the easily unlocked bootloader. While it's probably a bit too hard for ordinary plebs to do, it's effortless for a tech person to unlock the bootloader on a Nexus device and flash the newest version of Cyanogenmod. You can get the equivalent to Marshmallow on phones from 2011 and older, making them last longer than iPhones.

Re:Google's management quality is degrading rapidl

[MightyMartian]

Well, whatever advantages of the new Android version, I'm still getting app updates for the Google apps like Drive on my Nexus 7 (2012). Mind you, the Chrome updates over the last year or so have made the tablet largely useless for browsing, though I still use it as an ereader and can watch Netflix on it.

Re:Google's management quality is degrading rapidl

[LichtSpektren]

Why don't you install Firefox on it?

Users mostly part of the "used phone" market?

[perpenso]

That line seemed to be the submitter's personal opinion and not backed up by anything in the linked article. We don't know why Google didn't push an update for the Nexus 5.

The Nexus 4, 5 and 5X all have the same amount of RAM, 2GB. Its damn suspicious that the 4 and 5 are limited to Android 5.1 and 6.0 and only the 5X gets 7.0. The 2012 and 2013 Nexus 7 story made sense, the former had only 1GB RAM, the later 2 GB, so only the later got Android 6.0. Screen sizes are the same on the Nexus 5 and 5X. While the 5X has slightly better CPU and GPU the chips in the 5 are still vastly overpowered for what millions of Android users do.

Is Android 7.0 64-bit only or something? Even so it seems an arbitrary change. I would understand a desire for such a minimum as a software developer but I would concede it improper to make such a change unless something else is going on, for example 2GB RAM no longer supported.

It looks and smells like a business decision. (1) Reducing development, testing and deployment costs. (2) Users are mostly part of a secondary market (buying used phones) that Google does not want to encourage.

Re:Users mostly part of the "used phone" market?

[LichtSpektren]

I don't know and there's no point in baseless speculation. I would guess it would be something like a security chip in the Nexus 5 isn't compatible with the new secure boot mechanism, but again, I have no idea.

Re:Users mostly part of the "used phone" market?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why are you defending google so much? Do you have google stock or some shit? Google is a corporation. Their decisions are based on money nowdays. The original guys are long gone.

Re:Users mostly part of the "used phone" market?

[perpenso]

I don't know and there's no point in baseless speculation. I would guess it would be something like a security chip in the Nexus 5 isn't compatible with the new secure boot mechanism, but again, I have no idea.

Even if it were a secure boot issue that is also an arbitrary business decision. Secure boot could be a feature only supported on devices with a compatible security chip. It is not a technical decision as "not enough RAM" would be.

Re:Users mostly part of the "used phone" market?

[LichtSpektren]

Why are you defending google so much? Do you have google stock or some shit? Google is a corporation. Their decisions are based on money nowdays. The original guys are long gone.

I'm defending Google because right now Nexus devices are the only phones that reasonably respect their users' right to unlock the bootloader. I dread living in a world dominated by Samsung, Apple, and Microsoft.

Re:Users mostly part of the "used phone" market?

[LichtSpektren]

I don't know and there's no point in baseless speculation. I would guess it would be something like a security chip in the Nexus 5 isn't compatible with the new secure boot mechanism, but again, I have no idea.

Even if it were a secure boot issue that is also an arbitrary business decision. Secure boot could be a feature only supported on devices with a compatible security chip. It is not a technical decision as "not enough RAM" would be.

"Not enough RAM" is an equally arbitrary restriction -- they could only change the OS in ways that don't use additional system resources.

Re:Users mostly part of the "used phone" market?

[perpenso]

Why are you defending google so much? Do you have google stock or some shit? Google is a corporation. Their decisions are based on money nowdays. The original guys are long gone.

I'm defending Google because right now Nexus devices are the only phones that reasonably respect their users' right to unlock the bootloader. I dread living in a world dominated by Samsung, Apple, and Microsoft.

Your secure boot theory sort of undermines your user rights argument. So in your scenario of why the limitation might be justified you can add Google to that domination list. :-)

Re:Users mostly part of the "used phone" market?

[LichtSpektren]

Why are you defending google so much? Do you have google stock or some shit? Google is a corporation. Their decisions are based on money nowdays. The original guys are long gone.

I'm defending Google because right now Nexus devices are the only phones that reasonably respect their users' right to unlock the bootloader. I dread living in a world dominated by Samsung, Apple, and Microsoft.

Your secure boot theory sort of undermines your user rights argument. So in your scenario of why the limitation might be justified you can add Google to that domination list. :-)

I have no idea what you're talking about. Android 7 has a new secure booting mechanism, but it's not the same as Intel's SecureBoot that (theoretically) locks the bootloader. You can still unlock the bootloader on Nexus phones. Indeed, Google even advertises that as a benefit.

Re:Users mostly part of the "used phone" market?

[perpenso]

I don't know and there's no point in baseless speculation. I would guess it would be something like a security chip in the Nexus 5 isn't compatible with the new secure boot mechanism, but again, I have no idea.

Even if it were a secure boot issue that is also an arbitrary business decision. Secure boot could be a feature only supported on devices with a compatible security chip. It is not a technical decision as "not enough RAM" would be.

"Not enough RAM" is an equally arbitrary restriction -- they could only change the OS in ways that don't use additional system resources.

I am not going to comment other than to say I will allow a "do over" and pretend you never typed that.

Re:Users mostly part of the "used phone" market?

[perpenso]

Why are you defending google so much? Do you have google stock or some shit? Google is a corporation. Their decisions are based on money nowdays. The original guys are long gone.

I'm defending Google because right now Nexus devices are the only phones that reasonably respect their users' right to unlock the bootloader. I dread living in a world dominated by Samsung, Apple, and Microsoft.

Your secure boot theory sort of undermines your user rights argument. So in your scenario of why the limitation might be justified you can add Google to that domination list. :-)

I have no idea what you're talking about. Android 7 has a new secure booting mechanism, but it's not the same as Intel's SecureBoot that (theoretically) locks the bootloader. You can still unlock the bootloader on Nexus phones. Indeed, Google even advertises that as a benefit.

Then you need to edit your list as Microsoft allows the unlocking of the boot loader as well. Also while Samsung will void your warranty they don't really prevent you from changing the boot loader so they don't really belong on the list either. Only Apple aggressively locks down the boot process and works to prevent user modification.

Re:Users mostly part of the "used phone" market?

[LichtSpektren]

I don't know and there's no point in baseless speculation. I would guess it would be something like a security chip in the Nexus 5 isn't compatible with the new secure boot mechanism, but again, I have no idea.

Even if it were a secure boot issue that is also an arbitrary business decision. Secure boot could be a feature only supported on devices with a compatible security chip. It is not a technical decision as "not enough RAM" would be.

"Not enough RAM" is an equally arbitrary restriction -- they could only change the OS in ways that don't use additional system resources.

I am not going to comment other than to say I will allow a "do over" and pretend you never typed that.

I stand by what I wrote. Suppose my guess was right and incompatibility with the new boot features is why the Nexus 5 won't get Nougat; that's just as much of an arbitrary reason as an iPhone 4 not getting iOS 10 because it doesn't have enough RAM. The hardware won't support all the features, so why give a half-assed update?

Re:Users mostly part of the "used phone" market?

[LichtSpektren]

Microsoft has made it clear that Windows 10 phones won't allow the OS to be changed due to SecureBoot in the near future.

Samsung allows you to unlock the bootloader, but they frown on it. I don't doubt that they'd perma-lock it if they could.

Re:Users mostly part of the "used phone" market?

[perpenso]

I don't know and there's no point in baseless speculation. I would guess it would be something like a security chip in the Nexus 5 isn't compatible with the new secure boot mechanism, but again, I have no idea.

Even if it were a secure boot issue that is also an arbitrary business decision. Secure boot could be a feature only supported on devices with a compatible security chip. It is not a technical decision as "not enough RAM" would be.

"Not enough RAM" is an equally arbitrary restriction -- they could only change the OS in ways that don't use additional system resources.

I am not going to comment other than to say I will allow a "do over" and pretend you never typed that.

I stand by what I wrote.

Its your credibility. You might want to read up on the many decades long trend of operating system development and increasing RAM requirements.

Suppose my guess was right and incompatibility with the new boot features is why the Nexus 5 won't get Nougat; that's just as much of an arbitrary reason as an iPhone 4 not getting iOS 10 because it doesn't have enough RAM. The hardware won't support all the features, so why give a half-assed update?

Not enough RAM destroys the user experience. The lack of a secure boot does not. Android Nougat (7.0) would not be "half-assed" by booting with or without secure boot. It is arbitrary to make this one feature mandatory, it could be optional as it is in the PC architecture and with Windows 10.

Re:Users mostly part of the "used phone" market?

[perpenso]

Microsoft has made it clear that Windows 10 phones won't allow the OS to be changed due to SecureBoot in the near future.

I was referring to Windows 10 PCs, Windows 10 phones never entered my mind for some reason. :-) You were referencing Intel and Secure Boot so that got me thinking PC architecture. Isn't the Android thing Verified Boot and hasn't it been around since Android 4.4?

Samsung allows you to unlock the bootloader, but they frown on it. I don't doubt that they'd perma-lock it if they could.

Actually I have no doubt they could make it much harder if they wanted to and deter many of the mildly curious.

Re:Users mostly part of the "used phone" market?

[AmiMoJo]

It's down to the CPU, or more specifically the ARM version it implements. They could back port the new Java compiler but some of it, like the new encryption stuff that relies on the newer secure storage features of the CPU wouldn't work anyway.

So it's either support some features on older devices or just don't support them at all. I guess they choose the latter.

Re:Users mostly part of the "used phone" market?

[Anonymous Coward]

> Its damn suspicious that the 4 and 5 are limited to Android 5.1 and 6.0 and only the 5X gets 7.0

It's not damn suspicious at all. They simply don't want to support old hardware and would instead prefer that you purchase a new device.

Re:Users mostly part of the "used phone" market?

[swillden]

I don't know and there's no point in baseless speculation. I would guess it would be something like a security chip in the Nexus 5 isn't compatible with the new secure boot mechanism, but again, I have no idea.

No, it's nothing like that. There are some security-related features that are improved on the new devices, but those in and of themselves wouldn't block upgrades.

It's actually pretty simple. Google has committed to supporting devices for three years, and the Nexus 5 is more than three years old. If you really want to run Nougat on a Nexus 5, though, you can do it. Just unlock the bootloader and flash it yourself.

Re:Users mostly part of the "used phone" market?

[non0score]

Some reasons why Google won't update:
1) Is the phone fast enough so that it isn't just full of jank when you upgrade? Because I'm sure people will complain a LOT more about that than be forced to upgrade a pretty antiquated phone.
2) Do the hardware component manufacturers still support those devices? Put it this way: why would Qualcomm staff up a driver team to upgrade the drivers of components in old devices if those components are "good enough" and doesn't even sell much anymore?

There are a lot more reasons beyond "specs".

Re:Users mostly part of the "used phone" market?

[perpenso]

Some reasons why Google won't update: 1) Is the phone fast enough so that it isn't just full of jank when you upgrade? Because I'm sure people will complain a LOT more about that than be forced to upgrade a pretty antiquated phone.

The 5 and 5X are not very different.

2) Do the hardware component manufacturers still support those devices? Put it this way: why would Qualcomm staff up a driver team to upgrade the drivers of components in old devices if those components are "good enough" and doesn't even sell much anymore?

There are a lot more reasons beyond "specs".

Google already has a working driver for "old" chips and they likely do not need to upgrade them, unless the changes are related to operating system interfaces and in that case Google would be better qualified to make the changes.

Re:Users mostly part of the "used phone" market?

[dunkelfalke]

You can officially unlock bootloaders of most Sony phones, but doing so removes the DRMed functionality (some camera codecs).

Re:Users mostly part of the "used phone" market?

[ryanmc1]

OnePlus phones come with an unlocked bootloader, and, in my opinion, are much better phones than Nexus.

Re: Users mostly part of the "used phone" market?

[non0score]

The 5 and 5X are very different, especially when it comes to things that matter. I don't even know how you can claim they're similar when they're literally two generations apart. It's practically enough time for Qualcomm to develop, launch, and stop supporting a whole product from end to end!

Re: Users mostly part of the "used phone" market?

[perpenso]

The 5 and 5X are very different, especially when it comes to things that matter. I don't even know how you can claim they're similar when they're literally two generations apart. It's practically enough time for Qualcomm to develop, launch, and stop supporting a whole product from end to end!

They are two *marketing* generations apart but in *technical* generations the 5X is a direct descendent of the 5, a sibling to the 6.

Re: Users mostly part of the "used phone" market?

[non0score]

Snapdragon 800: 2.3GHz CPU and Adreno 330
Snapdragon 805: 2.7GHz CPU and Adreno 420
Snapdragon 808: A57 CPU and Adreno 418

These are quite different hardware architecture/designs. It's definitely not what you would call "marketing generations." And by no means is a krait CPU a "sibling" to a default A57 CPU, performance regression or not.

Re: Users mostly part of the "used phone" market?

[perpenso]

As I said in my original post the 5X has a slightly faster CPU/GPU than the 5. However the 5's CPU/GPU is still overpowered compared to what nearly all Android users do. More important for overall performance is installed RAM, which is the same. And the screen is the same.

The differences between the 5 and 5X are minor and in no way justify why the 5 can not run the new version of Android. It was a business decision not a technical decision.

Re:Users mostly part of the "used phone" market?

[q4Fry]

It's actually pretty simple. Google has committed to supporting devices for three years, and the Nexus 5 is more than three years old. If you really want to run Nougat on a Nexus 5, though, you can do it. Just unlock the bootloader and flash it yourself.

Just unlock the bootloader, wait for AOSP to hit the repo*, [wait for XDA to**] tweak the hardware-specifics, and flash it yourself.

* 2-6 months (notable exception: Honeycomb)
** 1-12 months

Re:Users mostly part of the "used phone" market?

[swillden]

wait for AOSP to hit the repo (2-6 months)

One or two months, sure. It won't be six.

[wait for XDA to**] tweak the hardware-specifics (1-12 months)

So don't wait for XDA. You don't actually need anything they provide. AOSP + the vendor binaries from Google will get you running.

Re:Users mostly part of the "used phone" market?

[q4Fry]

Ah, the vendor binaries. The ones that keep your camera and bluetooth working and have new versions every security update. If Google releases a 7.0 set, I'll take your post as accurate. (Although if they do, why not release the whole package?) If they don't, it's back to XDA (which I fully expect) and the first few versions of the BT driver will be flaky.

Re:Google's management quality is degrading rapidl

[MightyMartian]

Firefox only works marginally better. Most of the problems came with the last major update for the Nexus 7 (2012), which was, as I recall, Kit Kat. At any rate, everything I've learned suggests slower flash memory is a big culprit.

Re:Google's management quality is degrading rapidl

[Karlt1]

That is googles right, they are a for profit company, and does anyone realistically expect them to support a phone forever, especially when they've released 3 different phones since then.

IOS 9 Released September 2015 supports the iPhone 4s (introduced 2011). iOS 9 supports the 4s,5 (and 5C), 6 and 6s,

5 is only one generation from current 5X

[perpenso]

... especially when they've released 3 different phones since then ...

Its generations not phones that matter. The direct successors to the 5 are the 5X and 6 and the 5X is still a current model. So the 5 is only one generation removed from the current model and has the same screen, same amount of RAM, and only a slightly slower CPU/GPU which is still vastly overpowered for what millions of Android uses typically do.

Re:5 is only one generation from current 5X

[Higaran]

... especially when they've released 3 different phones since then ...

Its generations not phones that matter. The direct successors to the 5 are the 5X and 6 and the 5X is still a current model. So the 5 is only one generation removed from the current model and has the same screen, same amount of RAM, and only a slightly slower CPU/GPU which is still vastly overpowered for what millions of Android uses typically do.

No your are wrong, after the 5 came the 6, that was the next generation, then the year after they release the 5x & 6p at the same time so that will be the second generation. When they release the updated OS this year they are supposed to release 2 new phones again so that will be the 3rd generation. If each phone was manufactured by the same company I would agree with you on the generation thing, but since they pick a new maker every year, the generation thing really doesn't come into play.

Re:5 is only one generation from current 5X

[perpenso]

... especially when they've released 3 different phones since then ...

Its generations not phones that matter. The direct successors to the 5 are the 5X and 6 and the 5X is still a current model. So the 5 is only one generation removed from the current model and has the same screen, same amount of RAM, and only a slightly slower CPU/GPU which is still vastly overpowered for what millions of Android uses typically do.

No your are wrong, after the 5 came the 6, that was the next generation, then the year after they release the 5x & 6p at the same time so that will be the second generation. When they release the updated OS this year they are supposed to release 2 new phones again so that will be the 3rd generation. If each phone was manufactured by the same company I would agree with you on the generation thing, but since they pick a new maker every year, the generation thing really doesn't come into play.

You are speaking of marketing generations, I am speaking of technical design generations. Both the 5X and the 6 are direct descendants of the 5. Both the 5 and 5X are made by LG.

Re:5 is only one generation from current 5X

[JesseMcDonald]

Its generations not phones that matter.

It's not generations that matter either. What matters is the hardware capabilities and the ongoing difficulty of supporting older models with significantly different hardware. (This is why support was dropped early for the Galaxy Nexus: the OEM for the SoC exited the market and made it all but impossible to get updated binary drivers for the GN hardware which would work with kernels later versions depended on.)

The reason why people are rightly upset with this decision is that there is very little hardware difference between the Nexus 5, which is not supported, and the Nexus 5X, which is, making this an arbitrary cutoff most likely motivated more by marketing and an attempt to drive people to buy newer phones (when their old ones are working just fine) than by reasonable technical constraints.

Oh well. There are always 3rd-party ROMs. As small as the hardware differences are it shouldn't take long for someone to port AOSP 7.0 to run on the Nexus 5. It would just have been nice to be able to rely on a reasonable level of ongoing support from the original vendor. Other operating systems, and especially ones based on Linux, tend to run just fine on hardware far older than three years, and smartphone specs are no longer improving at so rapid a pace that a three-year-old device can be presumed obsolete.

Re:Google's management quality is degrading rapidl

[Anonymous Coward]

Trying to forcing people to buy new phones, apparently. That's sad. Google's management quality is degrading rapidly.

Is Apple's method better? Make the OS require so much more horsepower that 2 year old phones couldn't even run it if they wanted to?

As a developer I run newer versions of iOS on old hardware. Performance problems are vastly overblown or are version x.0 problems fixed in x.1.

The reality is that Apple tends to cutoff phones from newer versions based on installed RAM, secondarily on CPU architecture.

Media Tek Devices (BLU)

[Zombie Ryushu]

I still take issue with the fact that MTK will not open source their drivers or offer a Cyanogen based option for 4.4.2 KitKat Devices that need to be updated. I have an up to date Blu Studio 5.0CE D536U. The last Patch it got, V14, did a fix for Sim Cards in Equador, and completely ignored the mountains of CVEs filed against

I want to load Cyanogen Mod on it, but the MTK6572 the device has is not well understood enough to run Cyanogen Mod.

Re:Media Tek Devices (BLU)

[AmiMoJo]

That phone was extremely low end (512MB RAM, crap screen, crap battery, crap CPU) when it was released two years ago, and sold for $75 new. It would be nice if it got OS updates, but... There are plenty of phones in that price bracket that do offer updates, there are plenty of custom ROMs for it using the binary blob drivers (check XDA Developers) and you could throw it away and get a much better phone that runs Cyanogen for $50 from banggood.

Also, if you have Play installed and run updated apps, you are patched against most of those CVEs.

Considering the alternative is paying 10x as much for an iPhone that will not be supported for 10x as long, and there are better options available if you look for them, I don't think it's so bad.

Re:Media Tek Devices (BLU)

[ilsaloving]

I learned the hard way that buying cheap android devices from lesser known manufacturers is a complete waste of money. They won't be updated by the manufacturer, you won't be able to update them because they're probably using lesser known parts, and it may not even be fit for purpose out of the box.

You're better off paying the extra money and buying a more mainstream device from Google, or devices that at least are supported by Cyanogenmod, miui or some other 3rd party android distribution.

Re:Media Tek Devices (BLU)

[Anonymous Coward]

Indeed. If you want CM support, instead of spending €100 on a lowend MTK phone, better buy a second hand Qualcomm flagship for the same money (LG G3 etc).

Nexus may still be the best option with Android

[perpenso]

iOS haters always say that you should only buy Google approved(tm) Android devices to stay up to day ...

iOS fans have said that too for people determined to go Android, that if you want/have to go Android get a Nexus device. Even with this crappy treatment of Nexus 5 users - the currently sold 5X has the same screen, same RAM, and only slightly faster CPU - a Nexus may still be the best option with Android. My understanding is that Nexus 4 running Android 5.1 and Nexus 5 running Android 6.0 will still get patches. They merely don't get Android 7.0, but at least security holes and bugs get patched unlike some Android devices that don't even get that.

Yes, it does stink given 5 and 5X nearly identical

[perpenso]

"Your phone isn't running Android 7.0? Wow, what a turd!"

When your phone (Nexus 5) is only one generation different from the currently sold model (Nexus 5X) and has the same screen, same amount of RAM and only a slightly slower CPU then yes, it "stinks". There is no hiding that odor.

Re:Google's management quality is degrading rapidl

[alexo]

Firefox on mobile gets no support.

I've been trying to figure out how to sync my desktop and mobile passwords (using the same master password) for months.
Asked on stack exchange, mozilla forums, reddit, you name it...
No responses.

My question is:

[nightfire-unique]

Have they fixed the rather major defect they introduced by forcing an unconfigurable doze on us all?

Any application which requires the device to remain active (ie. safety applications like marine anchor and AIS alarms) are not functional on Android 6.0+. Even if you add applications to the exception list, they'll still be suspended, and woken only every 15 minutes while dozing.

A simple "do not EVER interfere with this process under any circumstances" option would resolve it, and to be honest it's quite shocking it was ommitted.

Re:My question is:

[BradleyUffner]

You can mark applications so that they ignore doze mode.

Re:My question is:

[DNS-and-BIND]

How? I have music player programs that get killed even when they're in the foreground.

Re:My question is:

[Anonymous Coward]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=android+marshmallow+turn+off+doze

Re:My question is:

[nightfire-unique]

Clever, but in fact you cannot disable doze without root. And exceptions do not do what you apparently think they do.

Re:Google's management quality is degrading rapidl

[Anonymous Coward]

IOS 9 Released September 2015 supports the iPhone 4s (introduced 2011). iOS 9 supports the 4s,5 (and 5C), 6 and 6s,

Very true point. Apple supports their devices longer than Google does, but you pay for it. So while you're installing iOS 9 on your old device, I get a brand new device with new features and better performance, etc. with all the money I saved.

Battery optimizations

[nightfire-unique]

The best battery optimization would be dictating that manufacturers shall provide adequate batteries on their devices if they want access to the Google infrastructure. I, personally, am sick and tired of hearing people whine about battery life on their 3-micron thick devices with 2000mAh batteries.

Evil cunts

[Anonymous Coward]

So you just want to make someone buy a new phone every year instead of letting us put the perfectly capable software update on a platform that will run it perfectly fine?

Fuck Google, those evil greedy cunts.

Re:Evil cunts

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh quit your belly aching. Nexus phones have unlockable bootloaders and a pretty healthy ROM community. Your N5 went through android 4.4, 5.x and 6.x, just unlock the bootloader and flash Pure Nexus, Paranoid Android or CM, problem solved. But, worth mentioning, even some notable modders are abandoning the N5 -- zephik, author of Chroma (very popular, near stock ROM), for example, said just a couple of weeks ago that he won't be releasing any Nougat-based Chroma ROMs for the N5. That, in itself, should tell you something, even people who do it for fun have lost interest in the N5 due to it getting really long in the tooth now.

32Gb N5 on the 3rd replacement battery here, running on Pure Nexus. Will most likely upgrade to the new Nexus S1 when it comes out anyway, as the N5, fantastic all around phone as it is, has terrible battery life and pretty lamentable cameras by today's standards.

Drivers

[Miamicanes]

At the VERY least, Google ought to commit to releasing unsupported "best-effort" automated builds of binary kernel modules for proprietary hardware for at least 5 years. It's something that would take only a tiny bit of effort (or arm twisting) by Google, and would go a LONG way towards neutralizing the misery caused by Linux's lack of a stable kernel ABI by doing the ONE THING for us that we genuinely can't do ourselves -- build proprietary drivers from source so they'll work with a new kernel.

Alternatively, Google should come up with a slightly better alternative to loadable kernel modules that enables some reasonable degree of compatibility between kernel builds. Or just fork Android's kernel outright, and commit to keeping the kernel ABI stable (absent some really, REALLY good, compelling, and urgent reason) from release to release.

The really fucked up thing is, ten years ago you could do a guerrilla upgrade of a Windows Mobile 5 phone to Windows Mobile 6 by doing little more than copying .exe and .dll files from a newer phone. Thanks to Linux's total lack of kernel ABI stability, we can't even do THAT anymore (at least, not unless the kernel from that newer phone can ALSO run verbatim on the older one)

Re:Google's management quality is degrading rapidl

[dunkelfalke]

Firefox for Android is barely usable. I use it because it supports ublock, but I am not happy about Firefox at all. It is awfully slow and eats a lot of battery and RAM, even on higher end devices (Galaxy S5, Xperia Tablet Z4). It is the only application that manages to crash Android completely. Text reflow has been for some reason removed two years or so ago. Copy&Paste is different from normal Android copy&paste. Firefox often misses hyperlinks. Several animated GIFs can slow it down to a crawl and if I try to close the tab with them, it can take up to a minute until it is actually closed - until then Firefox doesn't respond at all.

Re:Google's management quality is degrading rapidl

[klossner]

It works fine for me: mobile Firefox on Nexus 7 2013, desktop Firefox on two different PCs running Windows 7. It's been over a year since I set it up, but I think I followed these instructions.

It's their official policy

[Solandri]

They announced it last year.

Nexus devices will continue to receive major updates for at least two years and security patches for the longer of three years from initial availability or 18 months from last sale of the device via the Google Store.

• The Nexus 5 went on sale Nov 2013, so updates to major Android versions ceased Nov 2015. (Marshmallow was released Oct 2015)
• It was discontinued Mar 2015, so should continue to receive Marshmallow security patches until Sep 2017.

I have a Nexus 5, so I wasn't expecting it to get Nougat. It would've been nice if it did, but frankly I've been looking to upgrade anyway. It's a great phone (especially with Marshmallow), but it's limited by only being able to have one cellular radio active at a time. In theory I should be able to talk on the phone while simultaneously web browsing over LTE. But the hardware only supports a single active cellular radio. Wasn't a big deal when I first got the phone, but now I'm tethering more and I find I'm either unable to receive phone calls or text messages while tethered, or the call will interrupt LTE causing dropped Internet connections.

The whole OS update scene is a mess right now. Android drops support for old devices quickly. Windows 10 forces you to receive updates whether you want them or not. Apple supports their devices for a long time, but if you update a device and find it makes the device dog slow, you can't uninstall the update like you can with Android and Windows. Nobody seems to be able to get this right. Something like: support for 5 years, forced updates (so carriers can't screw you over), but you can uninstall updates which give you problems.

Re:It's their official policy

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple supports their devices for a long time, but if you update a device and find it makes the device dog slow, you can't uninstall the update like you can with Android and Windows. Nobody seems to be able to get this right. Something like: support for 5 years, forced updates (so carriers can't screw you over), but you can uninstall updates which give you problems.

I've never bought an apple device, although I use a work iPhone & iPad, in no small part because I find Apple too controlling; that said, even though their updates may eventually make a device crawl it seems like a decent supported life of 3+ years from the point of sale (not just release). Maybe that's not an incredible standard to be proud of, but it seems considerably better than pretty much any other mobile device out there. It seems normal for 'official' Nexus devices to stop receiving updates less than 2 years after they stop being sold which is pretty shocking (and that's said as someone who's owned Android phones for at least the last 6 years).

Re:It's their official policy

[Anonymous Coward]

They announced it last year.

Nexus devices will continue to receive major updates for at least two years and security patches for the longer of three years from initial availability or 18 months from last sale of the device via the Google Store.

• The Nexus 5 went on sale Nov 2013, so updates to major Android versions ceased Nov 2015. (Marshmallow was released Oct 2015)
• It was discontinued Mar 2015, so should continue to receive Marshmallow security patches until Sep 2017.

And that's a problem. If you replace your Nexus 5 with a 5X today, how long can you expect updates for? That phone is also a year old now.

Google is upset that Android is getting fragmented, but they are culprits too. You can't have it both ways.

Re:It's their official policy

[bgarcia]

It's a great phone (especially with Marshmallow), but it's limited by only being able to have one cellular radio active at a time.

That's only an issue on CDMA networks (Sprint/Verizon). You can surf and talk simultaneously just fine on T-Mobile and AT&T.

Re:It's their official policy

[jrumney]

Apple supports their devices for a long time

Only because they are on the market a long time. I don't know if Apple has any official statement anywhere about their policy, but from observation, the last major update that an Apple phone will receive is the one that is released the day it is withdrawn from the market (the way Apple manages its OS and new iPhone launches, these events generally coincide).

Up until recently, Apple released one phone at a time, and moved its older models down the product range, so a phone was actively being sold in Western markets for at least 2 years, and recently they extended the life of the iPhone 4/4S in developing markets for a further year. Recently though, they seem to be moving more in alignment with what Google has been doing, which is replacing the entire lineup every year with newer models.

Re:Google's management quality is degrading rapidl

[Anonymous Coward]

No new OS version for Nexus 5, but surely they will force push all their new apps into them. Nowadays one can not even try to uninstall all the useless Google-something crapware. I bought Nexus 5 and 9, but no new Google devices anymore for my house. They are worse than even Samsung at bundling all kind of pointless crap.

Have they re-enabled Miracast?

[MetricT]

I spent a few hours trying to get Chromecast working on a TV on a 10.0.0.0/8 subnet at a large university, and it simply cannot do it. Chrome cast will only work on a /24. Miracast will, but Google disabled it on their Nexus line, for no greater reason than trying to push Chromecast.

So Google, do you care about making your customers happy, or some random mid-level MBA at the Googleplex who thought they were Dr. Evil when they came with the idea of reducing functionality?

Re:Google's management quality is degrading rapidl

[alexo]

I have followed these instructions as well.
Bookmarks get synced, passwords do not. And there's nobody to ask.

Nexus 7 (2013), Nexus 4 / 5

[Anonymous Coward]

It is a bummer that Google will not roll out this update to "recent" Nexus devices. The Nexus 2013 tablet and Nexus 4 and Nexus 5 devices are more than capable of running the new OS. A company with the resources of Google can easily support their own devices. In many ways these devices have superior technology than my Thinkpad T420 yet even Microsoft and Ubuntu are able to ship and support updates for my hardware for no additional cost. This is not exactly a very "eco" move by Google and it is quite arrogant to assume that people should shell out money for immaterial technology.

Re:Yes, it does stink given 5 and 5X nearly identi

[Anonymous Coward]

Two generations.

Nexus 5, introduced in 2013, shipped with Android 4.4

Nexus 6, introduced in 2014, shipped with Android 5.0

Nexus 5x and 6p, introduced in 2015, shipped with Android 6.0

Google used to do only one phone a year (starting with the Nexus One on january 5 2010; the Nexus S on december 16 2010 -- so, while technically in the same civil year they are, for all purposes, a year apart; Galaxy Nexus in november 2011, Nexus 4 in november 2012), the trend of having two different devices at different price points/specs was only introduced last year. Next month the Nexus S1 and M1 will be introduced, continuing this trend. But it's undeniable the Nexus 5 is from two generations ago, as the Nexus 4 is from 3 generations ago (Android 4.2), the Galaxy Nexus is from 4 generations ago (Android 4.0), the Nexus S is from 5 generations ago (Android 2.3), and so on.

Pixel 2

[Anonymous Coward]

I still don't have any upgrade path from my Galaxy Note pro 12.2, I was hoping todays announcement would FINALLY bring high spec tablets to the table too. All 12 inch super fast tablets and 2 in 1s these days are shipped with Windows on them.

FFS, even Google their Pixel 2, a big screen, fast, top spec laptop style box, and they have their Pixel C, a less powerful, smaller screen tablet. Android can run on both devices, but they only run it on the smaller Pixel C. Pixel2 runs ChromeOS (with some crappy Android in a mni window thing).

You can see Pitchai bias here (he use to run the ChromeOS department), but the winning OS from Google is Android not ChromeOS. Now they have multi-window there's no excuse to not put that on every device up to 30 inches if needs be.

FFS Put the fooking Android OS on every machine big or small and get on with it already. I DON'T WANT YOUR CHROMEOS, Pitchai, I don't care about your personal ego, get over it, and push Android everywhere.

Doze + privacy

[Anonymous Coward]

The battery life with Android is as much to do with the spyware crap it runs as anything. I include Google's wifi and location sniffer among that crap. It wakes the phone up to sniff the location.

Privacy mode in 6 is junk. Older software runs under the all or nothing system still, + Googles spyware is exempt, + and the way they *told* an app it being denied a piece of private data, means the app can pick the time it has most leverage to demand that access.

I should be able to kill software like Microsoft's 'Skydrive' which I never use and yet it runs 100% of the time, sends approximately 3mb of data a month to Microsoft and comes pre-installed on phones because MS pays them to. I want that shit killed and off the phone. There are also Google shit I want off the phone too.

Permissions are a joke still, permission to access camera and microphone when the screen is off should be separate from when the screen is on and the app if in the foreground. I find Microsoft word starts up (never used it never wanted it, it was installed on the phone by Samsung). I also see that it has mic and camera access. WTF. A company with a long history of bad deeds, an early apparatchik for the 'spy on everyone' PRISM system, and their software runs without my permission on a device with a mic and two cameras?? Fuck off.

Re:Doze + privacy

[Anonymous Coward]

Skydrive?
Just where have you been for the last few years?
You are a class A dumbass. Grow the fuck up Trump cocksucker.

Re:Google's management quality is degrading rapidl

[rtb61]

Keh? new OS, what new OS. You mean a new java layer on top of an old OS. So yes, if you want, well not even a new java layer so much as new versions of apps on that java layer (the java layer could be really old, as well as the OS underneath it), you know the apps, the actual GUI, those apps that come with the phone and maybe just maybe some new drivers, than buy a new phone. Even though the might not be much improvement in the phone or the software most probably hasn't changed all that much, apart from some cosmetic tweaking but hey to make it feel better, couple of years old and that phone turns to shit because the battery holds bugger all charge and that last upgrade you get often tends to create more problems than it solves but hey, new battery (the main reason for fixed batteries is to kill the phone, as paying to repair the phone ie replace the battery, costs more than the old phone is worth because no one will pay much for an old phone when they can not immediately go out and buy a new battery and fit it, repairing the battery costs as much as that second had phone is worth).

You know what screw you, if we could put any software we like on those phones fine, even buy one to replace the provided one, but hey, ass hat, that choice is not there, we are pretty much stuck with the old OS and can not change it because they fucked up that choice on purpose, so hmm, purposefully fuck up the choice to change OS, the yes, they can pay for upgrades for the life of the phone.

Third-party Nougat ROM anyone?

[tepples]

The landfill will be full of Nexus 5 models.

I thought Nexus phones had an unlockable bootloader. In theory you can back up your data and the Google Play Store app, wipe and unlock, install a third-party Nougat ROM, and reinstall Google Play Store.

What they have seen with their camera sensors we people wouldn't believe. [...] All those moments will be lost in time

I thought sync to Google Drive was designed to prevent this loss.

Re:Third-party Nougat ROM anyone?

[Anonymous Coward]

I thought sync to Google Drive was designed to prevent this loss.

Don't go all Tyrell on me! ;)

Re:Yes, it does stink given 5 and 5X nearly identi

[Anonymous Coward]

When your phone (Nexus 5) is only one generation different from the currently sold model (Nexus 5X) and has the same screen, same amount of RAM and only a slightly slower CPU then yes, it "stinks". There is no hiding that odor.

Not that it necessarily negates your complaint, but the Nexus 5 would be two generations different from the currently sold model. The Nexus 6 came out the year after the Nexus 5. The Nexus 5X and 6P came out the year after the Nexus 6. I tend to forget about the Nexus 6 too though. ;)

Re: Yes, it does stink given 5 and 5X nearly ident

[Anonymous Coward]

The CPU has a different architecture (32-bit ARMv7 vs 64 bit ARMv8), that's quite a big difference.

It's not really a secret...

[Anonymous Coward]

... that devices are supported with new OS releases for a limited number of years. The Nexus 4, 5, 7 were all very consistent with the strategy Google set forward: https://support.google.com/nexus/answer/4457705#nexus_devices