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Intel Launches Flurry of 3D NAND-Based SSDs For Consumer and Enterprise Markets (hothardware.com)

Posted by BeauHD on from the consumer-and-enterprise dept.

MojoKid writes: Intel launched a handful of new SSD products today that cover a broad spectrum of applications and employ 3D NAND technology. The SSD 600p Series is offered in four capacities ranging from 128GB, to 256GB, 512GB and 1TB. The drivers are targeted at consumer desktops and notebooks and are available in the M.2 form-factor. The entry-level 128GB model offers sequential reads and writes of up to 770 MB/sec and 450 MB/sec respectively. At higher densities, the multi-channel 1TB model offers sequential reads and writes that jump to 1,800 MB/sec and 560 MB/sec respectively. The 128GB SSD 600p weighs in at $69, while the 1TB model is priced at $359, or about .36 cents per GiB. For the data center, Intel has also introduced the DC P3520 and DC S3520 Series SSDs in 2.5-inch and PCIe half-height card form-factors. Available in 450GB to 2TB capacities, the range-topping 2TB model offers random reads/writes of 1,700 MB/sec and 1,350 MB/sec respectively. Finally, Intel launched the SSD E 6000p (PCIe M.2) and SSD E 5420s Series (SATA). The former supports Core vPro processors and is targeted at point-of-sale systems and digital signage. The latter is aimed at helping customers ease the transition from HDDs to SSDs in IoT applications.

145 comments

  1. Math is hard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    the 1TB model is priced at $359, or about .36 cents per GiB

    Really? REALLY?

    1. Re:Math is hard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, you got to allow for the Pubic Skool Edukayshun of the average reader.

    2. Re:Math is hard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      It'd be roughly $0.39, anyway. If you want to be clever and use GiB instead of GB, use it correctly.

    3. Re:Math is hard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Hah. Off by a factor of 100 *and* fucked up the TB -> GiB conversion.

      1TB = 10^12 bytes
      1GiB = 2^30 bytes
      therefore, 1TB = approx 931.32 GiB

      $359 / 931.32 GiB = approx 38.5 cents per GiB

      Seriously though: who the **** uses cents per GiB? Drives have always been marketed in GB and TB.

      $359 / 1000 GB = exactly 35.9 cents per GB

    4. Re:Math is hard by unixisc · · Score: 1

      Uh, GiB is used for 1024, instead of 1000. So your above number would be $359/1024, which would be 35.05 cents per GB. Almost a cent difference. Miniscule at this level, but blows up once one starts talking TiB. Incidentally, the reason GiB is used is so that people distinguish b/w the scale varying by a factor of 1000 vs 1024, which blows up when you start squaring and cubing them

    5. Re:Math is hard by jbengt · · Score: 2

      Drives have always been marketed in GB and TB.

      No, they used to be marketed as MB, and even lower. And that was when a MB was typically understood to be 1024 KBs and a KB was known to be 1024 bytes.

    6. Re:Math is hard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Might be that the math was done correctly, but the writer has no clue how to write decimals and/or dollars and cents correctly. It's, sadly, a common issue for people to write things like '0.50 cents' or instead of '0.50 dollars' or '$0.50'. I've also frequently seen things like '0.50 centimeters' when the writer means '0.5 meters' or 50 centimeters.

    7. Re:Math is hard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You've made the classic programmer mistake of assuming that the drives are 1 TiB (2^40 bytes), when they're actually 1 TB (10^12 bytes).

    8. Re:Math is hard by unixisc · · Score: 1

      SSDs are flash, so they will be 2^40, as opposed to HDDs and 10^12. Yeah, they have the SATA interface and all, but that's an external sheen put around the flash. Some of that memory may be unusable, having been reserved for firmware or other things, but the total storage remains the same.

    9. Re:Math is hard by unixisc · · Score: 1

      That's why they came out w/ KiB, MiB, GiB, TiB et al. To distinguish b/w factors of 1000 and 1024. 1,000^3 is 1,000,000. 1,024^3 is 1,073,741,824. There's quite a bit of difference.

    10. Re:Math is hard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's why they came out w/ KiB, MiB, GiB, TiB et al. To distinguish b/w factors of 1000 and 1024. 1,000^3 is 1,000,000. 1,024^3 is 1,073,741,824. There's quite a bit of difference.

      There is a small difference, but your faulty math makes the difference look 14 times larger than it actually is.

    11. Re:Math is hard by locofungus · · Score: 1

      Was MB ever 1024K? (except for memory)

      I didn't ever see/use a 8 inch floppy.

      Early 5 1/4 floppy was 40 tracks, 18 sectors/track - 360K. That was 1024 bytes/K

      Early 3 1/2 floppy was 80 tracks - 720K.

      Double sided - 1.44M (we'd already started confusing multipliers)

      At some point the remaining factor of 1024 got dropped - probably when we stopped thinking about heads, tracks, sectors/track. Prior to that the first 1024 was baked into the disk geometry. I don't remember enough detail of the early hard disks to recall whether a 30MB disk was 30000000 bytes or 30720000 bytes.

      --
      God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = -@B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t," and there was light.
    12. Re:Math is hard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, they will be 10^12, with some bytes reserved by the SSD in case a few flash cells die.

    13. Re:Math is hard by rocket+rancher · · Score: 1

      yes, really, you poseur. Math *is not* hard, but it seems the basic arithmetic operation of approximation is very hard indeed for you. dividing by a 1000 produces about the same result as dividing by 1024, and rounding up is just more of the same dark magic, I assure you. By the way, what part of "about" is confusing you?

    14. Re:Math is hard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd like to say, Citation Needed. Hard disks(indeed, storage in general) have NEVER been sold by powers of two. They have always been powers of 10. The only exception I've ever seen was some Quantum 40MB/80MB hard drives, and then they stopped and went back to powers of 10.

      In fact, the whole situation appears to have started with Mac OS Finder. Andy Hertzfeld could very well be the madman behind this. Or maybe it was Steve Jobs himself!

    15. Re:Math is hard by FatdogHaiku · · Score: 1

      You think that's bad, TFS went from "a flurry" to "a handful" in a heartbeat and I want to see the conversion chart on that!
      Don't mind me, I read the RSS headline as "Intel Launches Furry of 3D NAND-Based SSDs..." and was disappointed when the story turned out to be something else entirely...

      --
      You have the right to remain sentient. If you give up the right to remain sentient, you will be elected to public office
    16. Re:Math is hard by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      I believe that this:

      .36 cents

      is one of the issues. It is .36 dollars, or 36 cents. .36 cents is 1/3 of a single cent, which is a factor of 100 off.

      Also, the mismatch in a 1TB drive (1000^5) and GiB (1024^4), which isn't what hard drive prices are EVER measured in.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    17. Re:Math is hard by unixisc · · Score: 2

      Semiconductor memory, be it RAM or Flash, is bit addressable and will always be in powers of 2. 10^12 is not a power of 2. 2^40 is. In the case of NAND flash, ALE is asserted and the IO lines are cycled 5 times to get the address. NAND flash is what is used to make SSDs.

      Different from magnetic media, where you have a disc divided into sectors, and the number is usually a function of Pascal's triangle, due to the way the bytes would be packed and distributed

    18. Re:Math is hard by unixisc · · Score: 1

      Floppies and hard disk storage was never 1024. But with SSDs now stepping in to replace them, the story is different. SSD is made out of NAND flash, which is addressed bitwise, and so will always be a power of 2, w/ some memory set aside for things like redundancy. So stating SSD memories in terms of TB instead of TiB doesn't make much sense.

    19. Re:Math is hard by unixisc · · Score: 1

      Very true. But w/ SSD's coming in, having been composed of Flash memory, which is a semiconductor memory that is bit addressed, the power of 2 makes more sense here.

    20. Re:Math is hard by sexconker · · Score: 1

      1 TB = 1099511627776 bytes.

      1 TiB = fuck you, go back to CS 101.

      1 TB on the label of a storage device = fuck you, marketers, I know that's just over 0.909 TB.

      1 Mb on any networking interface = fuck you, marketers (as usual) and retarded standards bodies (you confused baud and bit ages ago and you're too ashamed to admit your fuckup).

    21. Re:Math is hard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe you should go back and examine the history. You'll see that it is the power of 2 that is the odd one out; it makes sense for bus addressed memory, but it spread out of that ghetto into places it doesn't belong precisely because of people like you who were infatuated of the idea of having their own, inhuman, numbering system that they could apply everywhere it doesn't belong and then knock people over the head with it.

  2. Jesus, editors by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    "1TB model is priced at $359, or about .36 cents per GiB"

    36% of a cent per gigabyte? Care to multiply that out for me?

    1. Re:Jesus, editors by GrumpySteen · · Score: 1

      The linked article gives the same numbers, so the blame lies with the author of the article; Brandon Hill.

    2. Re:Jesus, editors by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Actually, no. The linked article doesn't include the word *cents*, hence the .36 refers back to the full price unit of $, and is therefore correct. The summary is wrong.

    3. Re:Jesus, editors by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In other words, the dot was slashed by slashdot.

  3. Re:Question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    Which is completely true and easily verifiable.

  4. Speed or density? by jez9999 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    So is the main advantage of 3d NAND technology going to be access speed? I thought it was going to be able to enormously increase capacity, but with the drives coming in between 128GB and 1TB (similar sizes to existing drives), maybe I got the wrong idea.

    --
    == Jez ==
    Do you miss Firefox? Try Pale Moon.
    1. Re:Speed or density? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Planar (2D) NAND is getting smaller and smaller in order to accommodate increases in required density per module. This leads to bigger SSDs, but has a downside - smaller cells are more fragile, which decreases durability (we're down to thousands of erase cycles nowadays), and it's harder to measure multiple levels of voltages reliably.

      The main advantage of 3D NAND is the ability to have big cells while still having steady increases of density per module. Durability is also back to "old levels". That's why 3D NAND SSDs can enjoy 5-10 year warranty even in the consumer space.

      This leads to a 4TB SSD being quite small even for a 2.5" (http://images.anandtech.com/doci/10481/CRW_3479B.jpg)

    2. Re:Speed or density? by Z80a · · Score: 1

      Piling up chips and keeping em cool is not that easy.
      It's a lot easier than keeping shrinking the chips, or making the die bigger, but still not easy.
      I wonder if in the future, we will have those weird chips floating in a thermal paste, with copper posts holding em in place and also serving as the communication vias.

    3. Re:Speed or density? by unixisc · · Score: 1

      How exactly do they do Si in 3D? I used to do product marketing of multi-chip packages at one time - where 2 or more die are stacked within a package: that was package level integration. But within a die itself, how do they do multiple layers? Especially since MOSFETS, which look 2D on a diagram, are actually 3D when one comes to the gate, source and drain layers.

    4. Re:Speed or density? by Z80a · · Score: 1

      Well, i was thinking the "3D package" they were talking about is a big stack of dies.
      Because otherwise you can arguably call any chip 3D, not only due the gates being 3D as you mentioned, but also all the different layers of vias etc..

    5. Re:Speed or density? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It shouldn't be impossible to make sure that non-accessed flash keeps cool.
      Once that is solved the cooling will be a matter of bandwidth, not storage capacity.
      In the end we might end up with flash chips that limits bandwidth based on temperature in the area accessed and controllers and wear leveling that tries to separate sequential logical addresses physically to maximize performance.

    6. Re:Speed or density? by Gr8Apes · · Score: 1

      Apparently Seagate got it right. They announced a 60TB SSD a couple of weeks ago.

      --
      The cesspool just got a check and balance.
    7. Re:Speed or density? by unixisc · · Score: 1

      Stack of dies is what I described above - multi-chip packages. The way Intel has been describing this, I got the impression that they are talking about at silicon level. You have multi-chip packages, you have POP - package on package, where 1 chip is larger and taller than the other and mounted on it, so that they share the same real estate on the board - sorta like living in a multi-storeyed building.

    8. Re:Speed or density? by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      Traditionally transistors are made by doping the surface of a silion wafer. The interconnect is then built on top by laying down alternate layers of oxide and either metal or polysilicon. So while you get multiple layers of interconnect you only get one layer of transistors.

      "3D" ICs aim to have not just multiple layers of interconnect but also multiple layers of transistors.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    9. Re:Speed or density? by AcquaCow · · Score: 1

      Eh, keeping NAND cool isn't really an issue. NAND likes heat. It's the controllers that you have to keep cool.

      Source: I just spent the last 6 years working for Fusion-io/SanDisk

      --

      up 12 days, 22:30, 2 users, load averages: 993.20, 994.21, 994.56
      *makes note to limit user processes...
    10. Re: Speed or density? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Like QWERTY for memory ?

    11. Re:Speed or density? by unixisc · · Score: 1

      That explains this a lot better. Just that fabbing them would be a bitch!

    12. Re:Speed or density? by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      You talk about a 4TB SSD and then link to a picture of a 2TB SSD?

      (Those modules on the board are 500GB or 512GB modules from what Google tells me)

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    13. Re:Speed or density? by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      http://www.semi.org/en/node/38...

      One layer at a time?

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    14. Re:Speed or density? by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      http://www.semi.org/en/node/38...

      They don't stack packages, the package contains an actual 3d structure of NAND that holds the data.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    15. Re:Speed or density? by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      Or cheaper. We've been hearing about SSD under 30 cents a GB "real soon now" for, what, five years now? At ten cents it replaces hard drives in all small capacities. The slope still puts that many years out.

      Maybe 3DXpoint will depress the NAND prices for existing fab utilization next year. Here's hoping.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    16. Re:Speed or density? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You talk about a 4TB SSD and then link to a picture of a 2TB SSD?

      (Those modules on the board are 500GB or 512GB modules from what Google tells me)

      The 4TB one has more modules on the other side of the board while the 2TB doesn't ;)

    17. Re: Speed or density? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pretty much, but simpler since it won't really be that critical. The heat will spread and average itself out so a few accesses close to each other won't really be much of a deal and a small slowdown due to temporary overheating will probably not be that noticeable.

      The pre-QUERTY issue caused deadlocking that would require manual intervention and possible permanent kerning damage to the machine.

    18. Re:Speed or density? by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      No you got the right idea but just the wrong approach for the same reason as Intel followed the tick-tock approach to chip design. New design followed by new process.

      3D NAND is a new process. Out of the box the first generation of the technology has already shown to be cheaper than the previous generation.
      Now that this technology is here we can look at expanding it with new designs.

  5. I'm getting old. by dr.Flake · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What amazes me most, but is probably because i'm getting old is:

    looking at the announcement, it seems like the SATA drive is just an obligatory part of the line-up. Its all M.2 and PCIe.

    Sure, SATA is getting old quickly and starts to become the bottleneck, but the way this is going, motherboards will soon have some SATA port somewhere for the occasional DVD / old spinning drive, and M.2 for the rest. Did i just recently buy my last SATA drives to fill up my NAS? I'm not planning on buying more for the next couple of years.

    Man, i remember buying my first ATA drive. And i was late to the party, it already was a stunning 20MB (imagine how many WP files were needed to fill that sucker up to the rim). And man, that thing was fast as lightning! ;-)

    --
    Why are other peoples sig's always more witty ???
    1. Re:I'm getting old. by wbr1 · · Score: 1

      Hell I remember MFM/RLL drives. First drive I worked on a lot was the ST-225 AT. Great drive that one.

      --
      Silence is a state of mime.
    2. Re:I'm getting old. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Huh. My first thought was: SATA? In the data center? Who the fuck uses SATA in the data center? Where are the SAS versions.

    3. Re:I'm getting old. by swb · · Score: 1

      I get the M.2 format's advantages, but I don't understand why they wouldn't offer the same drives in SATA packaging. It seems to me there's a hell of a lot more devices that accept SATA devices than M.2 devices.

      Has anyone heard of NAS or SAN devices that now feature rows of M.2 slots instead of SATA sleds? I like the idea, I just don't see anyone making them at this point.

    4. Re:I'm getting old. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There'll probably still be a bunch of SATA ports about - there is also SATA Express - which is backward compatible to old SATA, and also compatible with NVMe drives - may find usage in bigger disk arrays.

      (But yeah, for desktop systems that probably only have a single drive, might as well just go M.2).

    5. Re:I'm getting old. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      it already was a stunning 20MB (imagine how many WP files were needed to fill that sucker up to the rim)

      What? Can you even fit a single WP theme into 20MB? (Sorry, just trying to help you feel old.)

    6. Re:I'm getting old. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Has anyone heard of NAS or SAN devices that now feature rows of M.2 slots instead of SATA sleds? I like the idea, I just don't see anyone making them at this point.

      QNAP announced one earlier this year, although they couldn't seem to come up with a precise use for one. "SSDs are quiet! You could use it for presentations or karaoke!" is about the best they could come up with. I'm sure some people will find reasons to need the speed of M.2 drives, but aside from that I'm not sure why SATA SSDs wouldn't suffice, it's not like there is a lot of demand for NAS boxes to be teeny.

    7. Re:I'm getting old. by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

      SATA and SAS drives will still be around for some time, specifically for the data center. There are countless 4U disk shelves with 16+ SATA or SAS ports on them out there that will outlive the drives that are currently spinning in them.

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
    8. Re:I'm getting old. by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

      SATA has it's uses in the data center. Think: cheap nearline storage where performance isn't the concern, but density and cost is.

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
    9. Re:I'm getting old. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pretty much everyone uses SATA. If you need performance you go to PCI. The only time we use SAS is when some BA in computer science jumps on the conference call and explains that he has more dollars than sense.
      Then we spend what ever he wants.

    10. Re:I'm getting old. by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

      But once you go SSD you do not go back.

      I have a raid 0 SSD with samsung pros and a regular samsung pro. Besides benchmarks there is no noticable difference unless you sping up 4 VM's at the same time :-) Even then it is only a few seconds.

      It is IOPS and not how many megs per second for the user. Speed in bandwidth is irrelevant as a PC needs lots and lots of read dependent on data from other reads in tiny small batches like reading hte registry, loading daemons/services, etc.

      --
      http://saveie6.com/
    11. Re:I'm getting old. by thegarbz · · Score: 2

      looking at the announcement, it seems like the SATA drive is just an obligatory part of the line-up. Its all M.2 and PCIe.

      For SSDs is this really so surprising? A common configuration at the moment is SSD for the primary drive, spinning rust for the secondary large storage. With many motherboards shipping with M.2 slots and all of them with PCIe, it would make perfect sense to not have to run cables to your primary part of your system, and only for the secondary high density storage.

      This is common in my systems at home. They all have M.2 drives in them. My desktop also has a 2TB spinning rust, and my NAS has one M.2 drive and then 6 spinning rust drives.

      When I first saw an SSD on a PCIe card I straight away thought, the future is here!

    12. Re: I'm getting old. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Awesome, but if he is getting kick backs from the vendor rep he has plenty of sense!

    13. Re:I'm getting old. by JesseMcDonald · · Score: 1

      I get the M.2 format's advantages, but I don't understand why they wouldn't offer the same drives in SATA packaging.

      If you need the SATA packaging to fit existing hardware you can get M.2 to SATA adapters for $8-10:
      Oley Laptop SSD NGFF M.2 to 2.5" SATA 3 PC Converter Adapter Card
      AD905A SATA III 3 to M.2 (NGFF) SSD 7+5 pin Connector Converter Adapter Card

      Here's a higher-end dual-M.2 to SATA adapter with integrated hardware RAID for $40:
      Ableconn ISAT-M2SR 2.5" 7mm SATA III to Dual M.2 SATA SSD Adapter with Hardward RAID

      Has anyone heard of NAS or SAN devices that now feature rows of M.2 slots instead of SATA sleds?

      They don't appear to be commonplace yet, but here's one example:
      Qnap 4-Bay M.2 SSD NASbook with Built-In 4 Port LAN Switch

      --
      "The state is that great fiction by which everyone tries to live at the expense of everyone else." - Bastiat
    14. Re:I'm getting old. by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      There are M.2 to SATA enclosures available now.

      http://www.newegg.com/Product/...

      But, you lose a considerable amount of speed because SATA 3.0 isn't anywhere near as fast as a direct PCIe connection used in M.2.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    15. Re:I'm getting old. by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      WordPerfect? Yeah, we used to use floppies to move those files around.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    16. Re:I'm getting old. by sexconker · · Score: 1

      I do. 4 SSDs in RAID 10 covered that server's performance needs easily and saved a buttload of money.
      We didn't buy consumer SSDs, we bought the datacenter ones with the longer warranty, extra over provisioning, higher performance, and better TBW. But they're still SATA instead of SAS.

    17. Re:I'm getting old. by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      Oh, and I would be more concerned about a 20MB ATA drive. My first hard drive was a 20MB, but it was MFM.

      It actually looked almost exactly like this one:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

      It was "full height" which took up the equivalent of 2, 5 1/4" drive bays!

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    18. Re:I'm getting old. by sexconker · · Score: 2

      SATA Express was dead before it arrived. M.2 killed it. I still haven't seen a single SATA Express device, though motherboards do have the ports for them.
      I hope M.2 goes the fuck away. It's a laptop fucking spec and those tiny little shits overheat and throttle because of it. I hope the U.2 shit takes over so we can get high performance 2.5" SSDs with proper housings. (Of course, I'd still prefer they give us 3.5" SSDs but that battle has been lost.)

    19. Re:I'm getting old. by Dadoo · · Score: 1

      Where are the SAS versions.

      My guess is that Intel will never produce SAS drives. Unlike SATA, SAS is big-endian, and Intel has made it very clear, over the years, they don't approve of that.

      --
      Sit, Ubuntu, sit. Good dog.
    20. Re:I'm getting old. by swb · · Score: 1

      Somehow the reliability of knockoff aftermarket adapters is less appealing than OEM SATA packaging.

    21. Re:I'm getting old. by JesseMcDonald · · Score: 1

      I understand your concerns, but these adapters are basically just wiring and physical supports. There are hardly any electronics involved (perhaps a discrete voltage regulator, judging from the images). If you would be willing to trust a non-OEM SATA cable and mounting bracket then I wouldn't see any reason not to trust a non-OEM M.2 to SATA adapter.

      There are some higher-end models which provide a full 2.5" enclosure for your M.2 drive for $20-30, if you want the extra peace of mind.

      --
      "The state is that great fiction by which everyone tries to live at the expense of everyone else." - Bastiat
    22. Re:I'm getting old. by radarskiy · · Score: 1

      "I don't understand why they wouldn't offer the same drives in SATA packaging"

      The "packaging" is just an PCB with an edge connector, so you can't just make 1 board. (You could use an adapter I suppose.)

    23. Re:I'm getting old. by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      Sure, SATA is getting old quickly and starts to become the bottleneck,

      No, SATA IS the bottleneck.

      If you read specs and they all say 540MB/sec, that's the SATA3 limit. And benchmarks of practically every SATA SSD has it pegged at 540MB/sec.

      Its why Apple pioneered PCIe for storage, and brought everyone a 1GB/sec SSD read and 750MB/sec write at the beginning. Nowadays a NVMe PCIe SSD can easily do 1.5GB/sec reads and 1GB/sec writes, while the top end can do 2.5GB/sec reads and 1.5GB/sec writes.

      The other reason is SATA isn't really adept at SSDs - we emulate it well, but SATA was never designed for that kind of drive. And of course, the latest NVMe SSDs are bootable (NVMe is actually the interface type - while the physical layer is PCIe, NVMe is the controller interface hanging off the PCIe bus).

      SATA will still be around - bulk storage is still cheaper with spinning rust.

    24. Re:I'm getting old. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They probably want to empty the supply chain from the previous generations before introducing new offerings. Ah, I just looked the Intel's product specification PDF. The web site gives a very wrong impression of the new products. The S3520, for example, has a full line of both 2.5" and M.2 offerings.

  6. How does this compare to 3d-xpoint stuff? by WolphFang · · Score: 2

    How does this compare to 3d-xpoint stuff?

    --
    leather-dog muksihs
    Blog: @muksihs
    1. Re:How does this compare to 3d-xpoint stuff? by swb · · Score: 2

      Yeah, where IS 3D-Xpoint?

      A push into the MLC market with a miracle storage technology "just around the corner" seems an odd initiative. If 3D-Xpoint is as good as they say, I would think they would want to focus on stealing the market with a unique and superior product rather than trying for slivers of an existing market.

      Of course the cynic in me assumes that 3D-Xpoint is nowhere near ready and if it is, Intel just want to milk the existing NAND technology for maximum profit and dribble out the new stuff at maximum price points for both their own benefit and the benefit of OEM customers who want to keep milking stratospheric "enterprise" pricing on even MLC flash devices.

    2. Re:How does this compare to 3d-xpoint stuff? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I imagine it's because 3D XPoint is going to be marketed to Enterprise initially, and it's naturally rumoured to be more expensive per GB than enterprise NAND.

    3. Re:How does this compare to 3d-xpoint stuff? by erice · · Score: 1

      How does this compare to 3d-xpoint stuff?

      You can actually buy the NAND SSD's. Who knows when 3D-Xpoint will actually ship?

      When it becomes available, 3DXpoint is expected to be faster than NAND Flash but also more expensive. To make use of that speed it needs a lower latency interface than PCIe. Unfortunately, it is not quite fast enough to comfortably mix with DRAM on the DDR bus. It remains to be seen how it will actually be connected.

    4. Re:How does this compare to 3d-xpoint stuff? by godamntheman · · Score: 1

      I believe it was leaked that 3D XPoint is initially planned to be marketed at the enthusiast consumer rather than enterprise. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2...

    5. Re:How does this compare to 3d-xpoint stuff? by ganv · · Score: 1

      3d Xpoint is a fairly different technology. It is much faster than NAND and much cheaper than DRAM while still being non-volatile. Initially some people may use it in expensive high speed SSD configurations like Optane, but I think the real potential is in new architectures with huge non-volatile fast memory. Maybe it will replace Flash in mobile devices that currently operate without off-processor DRAM. It is possible that manufacturing becomes cheaper and it will compete with NAND Flash for non-volatile storage, but except in applications where write speed is much more valuable than total capacity, current 3D Xpoint can't compete.

    6. Re:How does this compare to 3d-xpoint stuff? by cheesybagel · · Score: 1

      Fact is Intel/Micron and Toshiba were years behind Samsung on 3D-NAND technology. The 3D Xpoint press release smelled a lot like vaporware when I heard about it. Intel and the industry has been working on PCM for decades. Remember Ovonyx? Intel announced a large investment in it around the time the *Pentium 4* came out and it was old even then... The industry has been working on PCM since the 1960s-1970s.

      Intel/Micron and Toshiba are manufacturing 3D-NAND this year so there should be a price drop soon as competition heats up. As for 3D Xpoint when (if?) it does get to the market it will have much lower density than NAND. Intel supposedly is aiming for a memory with capacity/speed characteristics between DRAM and NAND Flash. Seems kind of like a niche product to me. Remember the press releases claiming MRAM would replace everything?

    7. Re:How does this compare to 3d-xpoint stuff? by swb · · Score: 1

      It's funny, but I could have sworn I read Intel actually demoing the technology at a media event, that it was already production ready and that it was beating NAND in all the significant measures, density, speed and durability.

      The chatter was that it was *so* good that it was being considered as potential augmentation for RAM, allowing for huge RAM cuts in lower end devices since swapping to it would be largely indistinguishable from actual memory access on low end systems. Marginally believable as I have two SSD Skylake laptops running Win 10 with only 8 GB RAM and I've never gotten the itch to jack up RAM amounts because even generic SATA SSD makes paging transparent enough.

      Or it was the next fast tier in enterprise storage, which, IMHO, has to be dreading the rise of cheap 3D-NAND largely obsoleting their tiering sales pitches and forcing primary flash storage down in price. I'm sometimes of the opinion that the latest hyperconverged trends have nothing to do with platform vendors aiming at SAN vendors but hardware vendors looking to boost profits by overselling compute by repackaging it as hybrid compute + storage.

      I think the other oft-mentioned thing was that 3D Xpoint was actually going to debut in some kind of ultrabook design in Q1 or Q2 of 2017, so it wasn't necessarily going to be a technology dribbled out at high margins to enterprise markets before reaching pro-/consumer levels -- ie, someone had decided that it was all-around good enough that they could just gut the existing NAND market at once. Maybe that's just led to wishful thinking on my part, the idea that there really was a next big thing available universally and able disrupt the entire storage market.

  7. Pedantry fail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    the 1TB model is priced at $359, or about .36 cents per GiB

    Look, I've got nothing against being pedantic with "GiB" = 2^30 bytes, and I can divide by 1000 on my own, but if you're going there at least get it right.

    1TB is 1,000,000,000,000 bytes and is only 931.323 GiB, so the cost per GiB is 39 cents to 2 significant digits. Note that's nowhere near .36 cents, which is less than half a cent. I presume OP meant "$0.36" or "36 cents".

    1. Re:Pedantry fail by ThatsMyNick · · Score: 1

      OP subscribes to the obscure branch of mathematics called Verizon Math. By Verizon Math, OP's calculation checks out, I double checked.

    2. Re:Pedantry fail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wish Verizon would divide my bill by 100 in this way :D That'll be 39.99 cents, sir. Thank you very much.

  8. What about Linux? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "The drivers are targeted at consumer desktops and notebooks and are available in the M.2 form-factor."

    That's cool and all, but are there drivers available for Linux?

  9. That's a new record! :D by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I had a dream that I was kissing 3 of 4 girls that I'm dating.

  10. Does this mean I can 3D print these at home? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Technology always gets better, (which is why we have flying cars and supersonic passenger transport), so I assume I don't need to buy these SSDs, I can just3D print them?

    1. Re:Does this mean I can 3D print these at home? by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      Sure, they are 3d printed. You could even do it at home...if you moved into a $5 billion fab.

      We do have flying cars, they are commonly called airplanes or helicopters.
      We had supersonic passenger transport, it was found to be uneconomical, and after a crash the whole program was scrapped.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
  11. Complete pricing wanted by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

    So, how much am I going to pay for a 512GB M.2? And does it have 4 lanes?

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  12. From a fab standpoint... by unixisc · · Score: 1

    ...what does this mean? Does it imply that they'll have an easier time keeping their fabs at 100% utilization, regardless of how the market for their CPUs and other stuff is doing? By flooding the market w/ so many SSDs?

    1. Re:From a fab standpoint... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Clearly not since it's only been a week or two since they said they will open the fab to build ARM devices.... So it sounds like they will need a combination of things to keep the fab at desired capacity (you really don't want 100%, for a variety of reasons).

    2. Re:From a fab standpoint... by unixisc · · Score: 1

      Given how expensive these fabs are and how quickly Intel will want to write them down so that they make money on whatever they sell out of those fabs, close to 100% at least initially, would be good

    3. Re:From a fab standpoint... by cheesybagel · · Score: 1

      Flash typically uses different manufacturing processes than the logic processes used for CPUs. So it's not like you can switch a fab from manufacturing CPUs to manufacturing memory like that.

  13. From Intel? Most likely I'd guess... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    See subject: Intel does a LOT for Linux so I'd be surprised if they didn't account for what you noted...

    APK

  14. Woosh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's a typo. Someone wrote "drivers" when they meant "drives"

    Stop spamming about host files being the penultimate security device and try to use your brain, addled and atrophied as it is.

  15. Stuck at 550 megs by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

    The limitation of SATA is the bandwidth. NVMe can go to 2 gigs so you won't see much difference on consumer pcs. But it would be a nice relief as I pay for hte premium prices of the samsung pros in my rig.

    --
    http://saveie6.com/
    1. Re:Stuck at 550 megs by sexconker · · Score: 1

      NVMe scales. The high end devices today use 4 lanes of PCIe 3.0. There's nothing preventing someone from using (and benefiting from) 16 (or more) lanes of PCIe 4.0 the day that shit is ready to go.

  16. Why don't YOU do better, talker? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    See subject: You can't is why... lol!

    * That's ALL I really need to say, especially considering not a SINGLE ONE of you has ever, EVER proven me wrong on my points on hosts giving users more security, speed, reliability & anonymity online for FAR less (yet doing FAR more than any SINGLE other "so-called 'solution'" that's illogically "Bolting on 'MoAr'" stupidity vs. using what you already have NATIVELY built- in in hosts, that works for all of the above...)

    APK

    P.S.=> Truth about YOU hurt, Mr. Off-Topic jealous little "ne'er-do-well" unidentifiable weasel troll? Absolutely - you fail as ANYONE can "talk" but very few DO (like myself)... apk

    1. Re:Why don't YOU do better, talker? by Coren22 · · Score: 0

      I have proven you wrong on many points, many times. Perhaps you should update your rant.

      DNS is far superior to hosts files, especially in AD environments where your hosts file will break AD name resolution.
      You do not post to Slashdot by utilizing a bridge, you didn't even know what a bridge was until I linked the information about it to you, and bridges don't work like that.
      Hosts files might have a smaller footprint than adblocking software, but they have a horrendous performance impact.
      Hosts files and adblocking software BOTH prevent the transfer of ads, so you can't claim performance of internet connection improvements by not transferring ads as you have tried to claim, as they both do that.

      Prove me wrong, you can't, you will instead resort to attempts to get me to out who I am, and try to get me to prove my knowledge as if my post doesn't stand on its own without appeals to authority.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
  17. Samsung 950 pro by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Curious how these will compare to the 950 pro. The 950 seems to have better read/write speeds and IOPS, but is more expensive. Samsung probably has some new drives ready to come out any day now too.

  18. Re: Question by Coren22 · · Score: 1

    Can you please point out two comments that have been deleted by Slashdot?

    As far as I know, there has only ever been a single comment in the whole history of Slashdot, and that was deleted due to a court order because of copyright infringement of the Church of Scientology's IP.

    --
    APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
  19. Re: Question by Coren22 · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    trump mexicans all rapists etc

    You didn't read what he said did you? He said that there is a large incidence of rape of the people coming over the border illegally, which is a fact backed up by a citation from a magazine that Univision owns.

    The other issues, you really need to look at them carefully and consider, was it a company that Trump owns doing something, or Trump himself ordering something done?

    trump jewish accountant

    I have no clue what you are trying to speak to, I can find nothing about this on the almighty Googles.

    --
    APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
  20. Re: Question by sexconker · · Score: 1

    Dozens of posts have been deleted in the last few years.

  21. Intel ssd's by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...and how long before Intel voyeurs poison the firmware in the SSD controller to to report home with your data (if they haven't already)?

    1. Re:Intel ssd's by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't think my SSD controller has a WiFi chip on it (yet)

  22. The difference isn't that big by Solandri · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's important to understand that while we benchmark storage in MB/s, those units are actually the inverse of how we perceive their speed - wait time. Wait time would be sec/GB. To see what the consequences of this are, imagine loading up a game involves reading 1 GB of data, and for simplicity imagine you can read that 1 GB at max speed.

    33 MB/s = 30 sec - old IDE HDD
    66 MB/s = 15 sec - newer IDE HDD
    125 MB/s = 8 sec - SATA HDD
    250 MB/s = 4 sec - SATA2 SSD
    500 MB/s = 2 sec - SATA3 SSD
    1000 MB/s = 1 sec - early PCIe SSDs
    2000 MB/s = 0.5 sec - newer PCIe SSDs

    Notice how every time MB/s doubles, wait time is only cut in half. This means perceive speed increases are the inverse of MB/s, and thus not linear in terms of MB/s. The difference between SATA and SATA3 (125 MB/s and 500 MB/s) is "only" 375 MB/s. While the difference between SATA3 and newer PCIe drives is a whopping 1500 MB/s. But that doesn't mean that upgrading from SATA3 to a newer PCIe SSD will feel 4x faster than upgrading from a HDD to a SATA3 SSD felt.

    The reduction in wait time going from the SATA HDD to a SATA3 SSD was 8 sec vs 2 sec - a 6 sec reduction. But the reduction in wait time going from SATA3 to newer PCIe is only 2 sec vs 0.5 sec - a 1.5 sec reduction. So upgrading from a SATA3 SSD to a newer PCIe SSD will only give you 1/4 the perceived speed increase you got when you upgraded from a HDD to a SSD. Not 4x. Compared to a SATA HDD, a SATA3 SSD gives you 80% the wait time reduction of the newest PCIe SSDs (6 sec vs 7.5 sec).

    In other words, for the typical amounts of data we need to read off of storage, SATA3 SSDs have already given us most of the speed benefit we can expect by making our storage media faster. (The same problem plagues cars and using MPG to measure fuel efficiency. MPG is actually the inverse of fuel efficiency. It's the metric you want to use if you have a fixed amount of fuel and need to know how far you can travel, like if you're in a boat. The vast majority of people's driving is the other way around - they need to travel a fixed distance, and want to do it using as little fuel as possible - which is GPM. So the biggest fuel savings actually comes from making fuel hogs like tractor trailers, buses, and SUVs more efficient, not from econoboxes like the Prius. Despite how big 50 MPG sounds, going from 25 MPG to 50 MPG actually only represents half the fuel saved of going from 12.5 MPG to 25 MPG.. The rest of the world measures fuel efficiency in liters per 100 km for this reason - equivalent to GPM.)

    1. Re:The difference isn't that big by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Could you go over that using furlongs per fortnight?

  23. Re: Question by Coren22 · · Score: 2

    I was only aware of the Scientology post, what other posts were deleted?

    Also, I believe that the AC was mischaracterizing a -1 mod as deleting the post and censorship, which is a very common complaint, that is also entirely wrong.

    --
    APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
  24. Re: Question by sexconker · · Score: 1

    I obviously can't link you to them, but a lot of political troll posts, and a lot of posts shitting on the Slashdot Beta UI back when Dice was trying to ram that down our throats.

    I believe posts related to certain Slashdot interviews were deleted as well. Other times the article with the questions would be buried/hidden when the article with the answers was posted. This was an attempt to hide the fact that the questions the interviewee answered weren't actually asked by Slashdotters. The "Ask This Guy Questions" articles were completely pointless as questions were almost never chosen from those articles. The "interviews" were completely fake - both sides written by the interviewee and their PR goons. Some Slashdotters had a mini revolt about this (not on the scale of the Beta revolt) and had posts deleted.

    It got so bad that one of the interviews never even happened because they didn't want the negative exposure. The "Ask..." and "... Responds" articles for some time were filled with "FUCK YOU FUCK SLASHDOT FUCK CENSORSHIP FUCK SLASHVERTISING" etc.

    Lately , some of mine (which weren't trolling) were either deleted or otherwise eaten by Slashdot. For the two times I noticed it I couldn't think of any reason why they'd be censored, so it could simply be a case of Slashdot fucking up. This happened around the time of the latest sale to whomever the fuck owns it now.

  25. Coren22 = Mr. "ne'er-do-well" & liar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    See subject: Coren22 tells lies about me I crush him on -> https://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=9380571&cid=52536769/ & my ware is bad (/.'ers disagree) -> https://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=9493863&cid=52719085/ & he hasn't done squat in computing (+ he can't prove otherwise, & he's ALL mere 'talk' being a chattering blabbermouth know-nothing DO nothing mere fake online name using TROLL, lol - fact).

    * I also avoid a security issue riddled DNS system (massively bloated resource pig too if locally installed w/ more moving parts for breakdown/exploit too) https://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=9007355&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=51969075/ 96++% of the time too & that link proves its faults in SECURITY, RELIABILITY, RESOURCE BLOAT + more in a dozen++ categories & 100's of example proofs of each...

    APK

    P.S.=> See subject Coren22 - it's you - a jealous do-nothing "ne'er-do-well" & MENTALLY damaged brain-defective fool (Mr. ASSBurger, lol) - just facts about YOU, you reprehensible disgusting little pisspot... apk

    1. Re:Coren22 = Mr. "ne'er-do-well" & liar by Coren22 · · Score: 0

      he hasn't done squat in computing (+ he can't prove otherwise, & he's ALL mere 'talk' being a chattering blabbermouth know-nothing DO nothing mere fake online name using TROLL, lol - fact).

      Thank you for proving me right APK, you are so easy to predict. You are just jealous that I am able to prove my points without an appeal to authority like you try to use.

      * I also avoid a security issue riddled DNS system (massively bloated resource pig too if locally installed w/ more moving parts for breakdown/exploit too)

      Yeah, the DNS that outperforms your solution....horrible horrible DNS.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    2. Re:Coren22 = Mr. "ne'er-do-well" & liar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Coren22 your post history shows you harass apk constantly projecting you're jealous torn up by apk again now https://hardware.slashdot.org/...

    3. Re:Coren22 = Mr. "ne'er-do-well" & liar by Coren22 · · Score: 0

      APK, your post history shows that you don't know the first thing about networking or how the network stack works. You think that waving away the issues with hosts files will make them not exist, while I am many others have pointed the failings of your solution out to you, you still stick your fingers in your ears and act like you are superior to all, despite having a horrid solution for non security.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
  26. Re: Question by Coren22 · · Score: 2

    Trump only appears racist because the media likes to portray him that way. Me not being able to find out WTF you are talking about with a jewish accountant does not make me a bad Googler however, as apparently it isn't being widely reported on.

    If you really think that Trump is a racist for wanting to build a wall, I have news for you, Hillary wants one too:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

    --
    APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
  27. Re: Question by Coren22 · · Score: 2

    I wasn't aware of those issues, thank you for the heads up.

    The Brianna Wu interview had me rolling. She is a bigger troll than any of the Slashdot trolls. Every question was a complete suck up question to get her to talk about how awesome she is. It was awful, the ask side challenged her to actually answer for all the terrible things she has done, but not a single one of those questions apparently even made it to her inbox.

    https://interviews.slashdot.or...
    https://interviews.slashdot.or...

    It sure made my faith in the interview posts disappear, but I never would have expected the amount of post deleting you bring up. Some of those don't even make sense. If people don't like Beta, they don't like it. Deleting the posts won't suddenly make more people like the crappy interface.

    --
    APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
  28. Coren22's delusions dismantled (again) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Hosts files might have a smaller footprint than adblocking software, but they have a horrendous performance impact" - by Coren22

    WRONG & AdBlock's SLOWER: http://superuser.com/questions/686041/which-leads-to-faster-browsing-an-ad-blocker-or-an-edited-hosts-file/

    "DNS is far superior to hosts files, especially in AD environments where your hosts file will break AD name resolution" - by Coren22

    100's of examples of DNS' shortcomings galore in resource bloat, security issues & more that I avoid via hosts in 12++ of categories https://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=9007355&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=51969075/ - & HOW do hosts do that to AD? You STILL go where you need to faster (local RAM resolution's faster).

    APK

    P.S.=>

    "You do not post to Slashdot by utilizing a bridge, you didn't even know what a bridge was" - by Coren22

    Yes I do, & I was using + setting up bridged connections BEFORE YOU WERE BORN probably... apk

    1. Re:Coren22's delusions dismantled (again) by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      So, where do they suggest that a 200k+ entry hosts file will be faster than the same thing loaded into DNS? In fact, did you even read those answers?

      DNS' shortcomings are far outshined by the shortcomings of your solution. Are you going to add all the entries needed for an AD environment to the hosts file just to TRY and make a computer respond as quickly to local queries? You seem to not understand the way DNS or AD work if you think this is a viable solution, or frankly that it will even work.

      Sure you know what a bridge is...so, if you are using a bridge to access the internet, why hasn't your computer been compromised 30 different times already?

      You claimed that you use bridges "to get around Slashdot's posting limits", which is categorically false, as a bridge does not have the ability to do that.

      Perhaps you should go buy a book on networking. You seem to be confusing Router/Firewall with a Bridge, which are totally different functionally.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
  29. Re: Question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have a sane mind. I was not racist before, and even today I don't hate immigrants, but just realize they're exploiting the altruism and sympathy of European countries.

    However, there's little doubt in my mind now that genetics play a part in intelligence, empathy, violence and beauty. Yes, environment, poverty, nutrition also play a big part too - I get that - but you'd have to be extremely naive to think we're otherwise all equal, especially if you accept the theory of evolution.

    Take a look at this chart I created a few days ago, and see if you can spot the correlation: http://i.imgur.com/TFelKAp.png

    Does thinking other people as lesser make me racist? Maybe, depending on your definition. But many people's definition only pins it down to hate. Even though I'm posting anon, I'll read any reply to this comment.

  30. Topic was adblock vs. hosts stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    See subject & learn to read you brain-damaged assburger illiterate: Hosts are more efficient & local RAM cached hosts resolution is faster than even a local DNS (has transit time over the LAN & more moving parts, security issues galore + more resource use - period). I claimed to use a bridged connection stupid (modem is set into dummy mode - then again, just judging by your illiteracy on adblocking addons vs. hosts trying to move the goalposts illogically as usual? You continually prove your brain defects Mr. Assburger).

    * Did you create anything like a DNS or my program, "ne'er-do-well"? NO... why?? You're nothing more than a FUCKING low-skill menial (your kind's HELPLESS minus programmers like myself creating tools you merely USE, user... fact).

    APK

    P.S.=> One of these days, why don't we meet so I can get rid of you ONCE & FOR ALL you chicken shit little do nothing troll? apk

    1. Re:Topic was adblock vs. hosts stupid by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      Aww, now you have to jump to me being brain damaged. So, since you lost the argument, you have to try insulting yet again to make your point? Asperger's Syndrome, and Autism as it is now called is not the result of brain damage, so perhaps you should rethink your attacks, as they make you look ignorant.

      So, where is your consideration of the impact of name resolution of every entry not in the hosts file? Where is your consideration of the impact of directing hosts file entries to 0.0.0.0 (as you recommend) and the timeout wait of this (or the impact of running a web server that returns a blank page for every possible query)?

      You like to slam adblock, but you don't have to wait for adblock to timeout items that aren't even attempted to retrieve.

      With domain name system, you don't have to wait for every query to step through 200k records to have a cache miss that finally times out to public dns, so you get that improved performance. You also don't have to wait for however many records to be stepped through to get to every 0.0.0.0 entry. Domain name systems use a branching tree algorithm (you know, a programming term?) to look up entries, so it doesn't have to process all of the records every time you do a lookup, just the one you are looking for.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    2. Re:Topic was adblock vs. hosts stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't be a hypocrite Coren22! You came in here totally off topic stalking apk, not the other way around. I scanned your post history and you do this to him quite often.

    3. Re:Topic was adblock vs. hosts stupid by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      I was as much off topic as you APK. Why do you try and claim I am off topic when I am responding to what you posted?

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
  31. Coren22, hosts are about networking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    See subject stupid - hosts are part of the IP stack itself & yes, thus networking! Guys like ME create tools mere "ne'er-do-well" MENIALS like yourself merely use, lol - fact.

    * Do you create anything or worth in computing we can use? Not that I've ever seen...

    (Thanks for contradicting yourself stupid - you do wonders for making ME look GOOD & yourself stupider than ever as a limited menial who merely uses tools guys like me create)

    APK

    P.S.=> Quit wasting my time you waste of food, air, & water... apk

    1. Re:Coren22, hosts are about networking by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      You have proven, yet again, that you know nothing about how network stacks work, and that you can only insult and lie about me.

      I am not stupid, despite what you try to say.

      I am not a ne'er-do-well or a menial.

      I have done things, my refusal to demonstrate them is more about you than me. I don't feel like you stalking me in real life like you do here.

      I have proven your lack of knowledge in networking repeatedly in this thread and others. You still persist in your assertion that you use a bridge without understanding the first thing about them. You still claim to get around Slashdot's AC limits by using a bridge, as if that is a possibility.

      No, I have not contradicted myself, that you think I did points to a serious read comprehension issue on your side. Keep it up, keep the insults coming. I know I am getting to you with my truth when you are forced to break out all the insults.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
  32. You've proven you are repeatedly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Coren22, I've shown you adblock's slower. My lists in favor of hosts DUST adblock totally in abilities & resource use (not to mention its crippled by default "souled-out" as well)

    I also told you this last week also stupid & apparently your DULL brain can't retain or comprehend it:

    Adblocking hosts does makes up for any small hit I have in a missed lookup (ONLY sub 4% of the time here too no less since I have my favorite sites I spend 95% of my time online @ are resolved immediately) which is INFINITESMAL in a parse of even a HUGE hosts like mine (which almost nobody will have as it took me decades to build to that size as a test) compared to ad loads on pages (even if they are a 'miss' for me locally cached in RAM via hosts) which hosts adblocking gains for users of them dumbass...

    APK

    P.S.=> You ILLITERALLY trying to "move the goalposts" to DNS from AdBlock earlier here though? STUPID & "backfired" on you due to your illiteracy... apk

    1. Re: You've proven you are repeatedly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Aaah, just like old times.

  33. You = menial "ne'er-do-well": Prove otherwise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    you know nothing about how network stacks work - by Coren22

    Coren22 hosts ARE networking https://hardware.slashdot.org/... & I create tools for it - do you? No.

    you can only insult and lie - by Coren22

    Pot calling the kettle black? Yes-> ahref=https://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=9380571&cid=52536769/rel=url2html-28707https://slashdot.org/comments....> where you tell a lie about me & more!

    * SEE SUBJECT: Do /.ers like your work? No. You don't HAVE any.

    "serious read comprehension issue on your side - by Coren22

    Hypocrite Coren22 moving goalposts where I show addons = slower vs. hosts (THE TOPIC THERE) + far less efficient & less abilities by far vs. hosts, & then you changing TO DNS https://hardware.slashdot.org/... ?

    (Please!)

    APK

    P.S.=> Coren22 I demonstrate correct use of bridged setups & done networks + programming FOR THEM & LONGER than you fool?... apk

  34. Re: Question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No need for the self-doubt: you're a racist.

  35. Answer me a question Coren22... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How do hosts files break Active Directory name resolution Coren22?

    APK

    P.S.=> I asked that of you & I'd like to know the answer - you evaded answering... apk

  36. 100's of known DNS issues outshine hosts? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "DNS is far superior to hosts files" - by Coren22 ( 1625475 ) on Friday August 26, 2016 @04:25PM (#52777325)

    DNS security & resource bloat outshine hosts https://news.slashdot.org/comm... in a dozen++ or so categories with 100's of examples of all those faults?

    LMAO - WRONG!

    Calling out to a remote DNS adds more resolution time than a locally cached hosts file (using favorites @ the TOP of it as I do where users spend 95++% of their time) & IF locally installed DNS you use TONS more RAM + moving parts complexity for breakdown (& exploit which that link has tons of examples of happening to DNS) + power usage!

    APK

    P.S.=>

    "hosts file will break AD name resolution" - by Coren22 ( 1625475 ) on Friday August 26, 2016 @04:25PM (#52777325)

    Again - how do hosts 'break name resolution' of AD as you stated too? You evading answering that as you troll me as usual off topic...apk

  37. Re: Question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Get on topic troll. You've been off topic this entire article in every post you made in it.

  38. Re: Question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Get a clue on staying on topic instead of trolling everyone here you fucking troll! Enjoy your off topic down moderations.

  39. Re: Question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Fuckface can you be on topic for once? It's the #1 Important stuff rule when you post. Can't you read, fuckface?

  40. Re: Question by Coren22 · · Score: 1

    Aww, poor APK had his feelings hurt when I proved him wrong.

    What does the topic have to do with hosts files that you just had to bring them up? What did the topic have to do with APK that you had to pitch in about how you are superior

    You are just mad that I get up modded while you get down modded. I participate in the conversation, while you troll.

    --
    APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
  41. You're off topic trolling + failing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    See subject & your further lies you can't backup - I was on topic regarding INTEL contributions to Linux (they're #1 from the corporate world according to THIS source -> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/08/26/linux_at_25/ & what did YOU contribute on topic? ZERO!):

    "APK, I have done so much more than you" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Thursday August 11, 2016 @12:19PM (#52684621)

    Coren22 what commercialware's your code as mine's is? Does malwarebytes host + recommend your work as mine currently is? What trade show did your work do well in like mine? What books, magazines, newspapers articles in computer science feature your work like I've done? You say you've done more in middle school. Ok, what was that? You should just admit you're a lying "ne'er-do-well" bigmouth that can't backup his blowhard bs, lmao!

    THEN there's these lies I busted you in attempting to "cut me down" with this crap too-> https://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=9380571&cid=52536769/ & I have so many tech fails of yours vs. myself it's unbelievable!

    QUESTION as to your latest/greatest blunder: You keep avoiding telling us how hosts "break AD"? Well - how do they do THAT??

    (You'll run due to your continual FURTHER tech mistakes as you have already, lol...)

    APK

    P.S.=> See subject & this bs from you starting up hassles (because it bugs you I can crush you with ease every single time noob bs artist liar):

    https://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=9572451&cid=52775867/

    Who posted that crap that's off topic hmmm? YOU did... apk

    1. Re:You're off topic trolling + failing by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      Oh yeah, running away. Is it running to just give up on explaining the same thing for the 100th time? You don't get it, because you know so little about networking. You don't understand how the hosts file works, but still believe your solution is so much better.

      It is not offtopic to respond to what people post about.

      https://slashdot.org/comments....

      So, since you brought it up, I responded. You bring up how no one has ever proven you wrong, so I point out that I have proven you wrong numerous times. You, yet again, still don't even understand enough of the technology you are dealing with to understand why you are wrong, so, instead of admitting your mistakes, you insult me, and call me a liar. Keep it up, I am sure one of these days you will catch me being wrong.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    2. Re:You're off topic trolling + failing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Answer the question Coren22. How do hosts break AD? Apk noted Intel's contributions to Linux which he backed up from a reputable source. You're off topic in every post you made in this article's responses. It is clear that it bothers you that apk has you over a barrel in his being able to show decent accomplishment in computer sciences where you can't. You shouldn't troll and stalk him off topic or tell lies about him which this exchange shows in apk's replies! Coren22 you wouldn't get what you get in your continual fails as you hide behind your fake name online for your fake life of lies trolling if you quit stalking apk. He annihilates you at every turn! That much is clear. Get over it. Do something worthwhile like apk has instead. That way he can't call you a "ne'er-do-well" which you are proving you are as well as a lying troll off topic.

  42. Re: Question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Coren22 you're off topic in each post of yours here. You haven't spoken of intel ssd! Apk did you trolled him off topic with lies he cut to shreds https://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=9572451&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=52774333/ which anyone is free to examine to judge for themselves as I did. You're rapidly developing a reputation as a trolling off topic blowhard that can't backup his hot air.