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Stanford's New Alcohol Policy Isn't Based On Much Research (vice.com)

Sophia Carter-Kahn, reporting for Motherboard: Last week Stanford University announced a strict new alcohol policy in hopes to curb binge drinking. The new policy bans hard liquor at on-campus parties, and restricts hard alcohol in undergraduate possession to containers smaller than 750 milliliters ("a fifth"). Lisa Lapin, the vice president of university communications, clarified that the goal is to prevent medical transports [i.e. trips to the hospital]. Universities across the country are looking for new ways to deal with dangerous binge drinking. If this new restriction at Stanford is successful, it would set a precedent for how universities across the country grapple with a seemingly insurmountable alcohol problem. There's just one catch: there's little data to suggest restricting bottle size can change college drinking culture. Colleges have tried different strategies, from mailing parents flyers about alcoholism stats to policing campuses to break up parties. Dartmouth College, for example, implemented a hard alcohol ban last year. And the University of Virginia cracked down on liquor and Greek life on campus. But their efforts don't seem to be working. Drunkorexia -- skipping meals to have more room for alcohol -- is on the rise. And administrative desperation to find some way to reduce alcohol consumption has continued.

31 of 201 comments (clear)

  1. Culture by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Change culture, not containers.

    1. Re:Culture by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Change culture, not containers.

      If it were so easy!

      People are irrational, short sighted, and overconfident in their ability to be rational.

      Now add in the mix a culture that rewards overconfidence, even arrogance, and you have the makings of really crazy behavior.

      And I'm talking about society in general - not just Stanford.

    2. Re:Culture by markus · · Score: 4, Interesting

      There is an obvious way to fix this. But it takes a lot of work to change the existing culture, and the transition phase will be painful.

      Do what Europe has been doing successfully for decades. Lower the drinking age to 16 years, and raise the driving age to 18 years. Kids will still drink, but the thrill of doing something crazy and/or illegal has long since worn off, by the time they get their drivers licenses and get into college. Also, there is a lot less stigma around drinking. So, calling another adult to give you a ride home is really not a big deal.

      I have grown up in this culture (in Germany), and excessive drinking is a lot less of a problem than it is in the US. People still get drunk, don't get me wrong, but hear of far fewer cases of drunk driving and I have a really hard time remembering the last time I heard of anybody going to the hospital with alcohol poisoning.

    3. Re:Culture by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "there ought to be a law"

      And it was so. And the law didn't change a thing, just made nominal activity illegal. And yet, we continue to listen to the logic ...

      1) We have to do something
      2) This is something (there ought to be a law)
      3) Therefore we must do it!

      Careful consideration and thoughtful deliberations are being shunned for vain emotional arguments

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    4. Re:Culture by jodokast98 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I always found it odd, that in this country you can kill people at 18 for the military but you can't drink till 21.

    5. Re:Culture by Roger+W+Moore · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Do what Europe has been doing successfully for decades. Lower the drinking age to 16 years, and raise the driving age to 18 years.

      The problem with that is that if you can only drive when you are 18 you need to have a reasonable public transport system which the US utterly lacks...and lower population density is not an excuse because Canada has a lower density than even the US and yet still has a public transport system which is reasonably comparable to many EU countries.

    6. Re:Culture by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Blame MADD (Mothers Against Drunk Driving), who got the drinking age raised back to 21 (it was 18 at one point), rather than getting the driving age raised.

      The real problem is drivers who don't know how to drink, not drinkers who don't know how to drive. Lowering the drinking age and raising the driving age gives kids the opportunity to learn to drink responsibly before they're allowed to drive. Allowing them to drive before they've learned to drink responsibly is a mistake.

      Of course, some people never learn responsibility. They probably shouldn't be drinking or driving.

    7. Re:Culture by ceoyoyo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That's not quite true. Canada has a lower overall population density than the US, but the urban density is about 40% higher than the US (Europe is 270% higher than the US).

    8. Re:Culture by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Hilarious!

      The largest city in Canada can't even manage to keep the subway running from 1:30 am to 6 am. The only way between the top 5 cities in Canada via public transit is Via Rail, which is so significantly more expensive than using a private airline that I have yet to meet anyone who has used it.

      Heck, 1 of the top 5 cities in Canada (the one that's the capital of the whole country!) doesn't even have a rail system! Just buses!

      NYC has them running 24x7 and Amtrak will take you cheaply (in comparison to Via Rail) between there and the top 5 cities in the US. And all those cities have a rail system. And so does the capital of the US. And most of them run 24x7.

      In order, I'd rank Europe as best at public transit, USA as not great, and Canada as terrible.

    9. Re:Culture by Coren22 · · Score: 2

      Perhaps you don't know any 16 year olds, but it is hardly uncommon for 16 year olds in the US to go out and binge drink even while it is illegal.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    10. Re:Culture by Coren22 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Such as driving to an after school job (or work study program)?

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    11. Re:Culture by BranMan · · Score: 2

      Actually - if colleges had the leeway, I think it could be that easy.

      College bans all alcohol everywhere on campus - caught with as much as a nip bottle anywhere, automatic expulsion. Everywhere, that is, except the bars the college establishes on campus, for students.

      Students can go there and drink, but the place is staffed (and serves food too - that is a must). So no binge drinking - gone. No getting too drunk - you're cut off. Students learn responsible behavior, cause it is reinforced. Past a certain point car keys must be surrendered if they have 'em. Etc. Everything a well-run bar does.

      OK - I've put it out there. Discuss!

    12. Re:Culture by Hylandr · · Score: 2

      There aught to be a law, where people that say 'There aught to be a law" get kicked in the nu.. *WHOMPF*

      --
      ~ People that think they are better than anyone else for any reason are the cause of all the strife in the world.
    13. Re:Culture by RenderSeven · · Score: 3, Informative

      In Canadian provinces where the MLDA is 18, teenage drinking dropped about the same as those that implemented MLDA 21. Also the reduction occurred before the introduction of zero-tolerance legislation. And the reduction is roughly proportional to those in the United States. According to the NHTSA "The Canadian reduction in youth drinking and driving must have been caused entirely by other factors."

      Cite me not the self-congratulatory statistics from MADD.

    14. Re:Culture by aevan · · Score: 2

      'other factors' like the improvements in car safety in the last 30 years. Or regular targeted checkpoints to remove drunk drivers from the road. Or the aging population bringing a shift in driver mentality. Constant campaigning commercials to raise awareness of the risks of driving under the influence. Bar tenders being forced to cut off and/or take the keys from drunks. Homeowners being liable for their drunken guests' actions, etc. I mean hell, that same website states "The rate of drunk driving is highest among 26 to 29 year olds (20.7 percent)" - and even if the drinking age is 21, it isn't like kids as young as middle school have trouble getting access to alcohol, must less late teens.

      Personally found this to be an interesting read on various factors. Brought up a few things I hadn't thought of before reading it.

    15. Re:Culture by Roger+W+Moore · · Score: 2

      In order, I'd rank Europe as best at public transit, USA as not great, and Canada as terrible.

      You are cherry picking the best of the US and the worst in Canada. Try comparing the transit system in Chicago. The Chicago LRT-equivalent network follows a star pattern so you can only go into and from the centre to the suburbs it serves. Plus it only operates at certain times of the day to serve commuters. This makes it utterly useless unless you are a commuter going to an from the city at normal office hours. Young people need to get from their home often to a job in a shop which is unlikely to be in the city centre and those with jobs in the centre are more likely to have evening cleaning jobs which is after the trains stop running.

      If we start to include smaller towns like Lansing, Michigan there is effectively zero public transport there. New York may have decent public transport (I personally do not know because I have never been there) but if so it is the only US city or town that I'm aware of with it. Compare that to Canadian cities like Vancouver, Toronto, Edmonton etc. which have bus routes serving much of the city so that you can get from A to B in a reasonable time even if neither A nor B are in the centre. The difference vs. Europe is that the frequency of service is less so you do have to look at a timetable rather than just the routes. In the US the routes are so sparse that it is often not possible to get closer than 2-3 km or worse and some parts of US cities are dangerous to walk through.

  2. Numbing Culture by Hylandr · · Score: 4, Insightful

    When people realize their only hope is to train to be a successful obedient slave they have a tendency to seek measures that will help deaden the pain, and deceive themselves into thinking they really are having a great time. The bonus? They get to pay for it all themselves and go into lifelong debt for their efforts.

    Should have picked a trade before choosing the rank and file of paper pushers, report carriers, metrics analysis and professional privilege checking.

    --
    ~ People that think they are better than anyone else for any reason are the cause of all the strife in the world.
    1. Re:Numbing Culture by kangsterizer · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You know, school was initially "invented" for this purpose: being obedient slaves - though that is a bit of a misnomer. Really the goal was the unify the population by ensuring the new generation would think and behave in a more controlled and similar way. And as horrible as it might sound, it worked great.
      Boosted the economy, science, reduced crime, boosted happiness, etc.

      Now then again and as per usual there's a balance to how much rules and stupid stuff one can abide to, and we crossed that line long ago. You can see it when most students hate school just because of what's being forced onto them. This one rule just adds to the pile.

      Humans are terrible at balance.

  3. Lower the drinking age by mbone · · Score: 4, Informative

    Get rid of Liddy Doles pernicious tying of Federal Highway subsidies to a drinking age of 21. Let the states lower the drinking age as they see fit, and watch the states with the lower drinking ages have a reduction of binge drinking in their colleges.

    1. Re:Lower the drinking age by The-Ixian · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I was going to post something similar.

      In my own experience, problem drinking stems from unpreparedness. If you are living away from home for the first time it can be an overwhelming experience when all these new and previously restricted things are shoved in your face.

      You could solve a lot of problems by just preparing people earlier. And what better way to prepare than to get your hands dirty? As in, allow some "bad" things (drinking, drug use, sexual relationships, break-ups and financial mishaps to name a few) to happen while the child is still in a safe and controlled environment so they know better how to deal with them when they arise in the real world.

      Think of it like vaccinating your kids for the real world. It doesn't just help them, it helps the other kids around them.

      --
      My eyes reflect the stars and a smile lights up my face.
  4. The problem is 21 by I4ko · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Seriously, the problem is that drinking is only allowed at 21. Back in Europe, especially South Europe and Eastern Europe parents give small amounts of wine to children in a controlled family environment around the age of 6, diluted with water or lemonade as much as 1:20. Beer is offered around 9, at amount of one half water glass (around 125ml). By 13 most teens have a glass of wine of a bottle of beer (500ml) perfectly responsibly on extended family gatherings, and by 14 it is usually their first (and very often last) drink till you pass out moment. They are embarrassed, it hurts and they never repeat it. By 21 most don't care much for a drink, and will have a beer or two with lunch or dinner, and never get drunk, engage in binge drinking, do stupid stunts like Americans do - beerpong or kegstands, or drink so much that they are outside of control or pass out. By 30 most people will be having 2-3 drinks per month.

    On the other hand compare that to Scandinavian and Anglo-Saxon countries with their fake moral, fake abstinence, and you get people being so long forbidden of drinking that the first time they are out of the control of their parents and are with likeminded out of control individuals they are trying to go into dick measuring contents, trying to impress girls and whatnot, or just plain enjoying the forbidden fruit so much and so often that they frequently drink till they pass, repeatedly for many years. There is no element of embarrassment of falling asleep on the toilet seat with pants down and your parents coming to wake you up. There is not enough head hurting from getting drunk while the organisms isn't strong enough. And there is definitely the self-ratification of doing the forbidden thing.

    Same in fake morals America. The solution to responsible drinking isn't prohibition and increasing age restriction. It is controlled introduction from a young age, that allows to gain experience, lose the novelty, and also build tolerance.

    1. Re:The problem is 21 by edi_guy · · Score: 2

      I hear what you are saying and have thought about that argument as well. However I've come to understand that there are a great many social differences between the USA and Europe such that these single-issue comparisons aren't really valid. It does fall under the admittedly generic umbrella of 'culture'. Same thing with comparing US to Europe with crime, violence, etc. Not to turn this into typical Slashdot 2nd Amendment flame war, but I think if you were to give every Swede a Rambo knife + Glock + AR-15 + hand grenade they would still have a dramatically lower homicide rate than the US. It's our culture that directs us, not the weapon or the alcohol in our hand. By the time US kids are of age to have a drink, even as teenagers, they have been molded with American culture and would abuse alcohol like they do in later, college years. Not saying the drinking age of 21 necessarily makes sense, but I don't think lowering or removing it would change much. Funny non-sequitur. San Francisco wants to lower the voting age to 16 years old. What could go wrong?!

  5. Meanwhile, on the rest of the planet... by PvtVoid · · Score: 2

    ... the drinking age is 18, or even lower, many college campuses have undergraduate pubs, and binge drinking is a vastly smaller issue.

    Americans are stupid.

  6. Don't drink and derive by fermion · · Score: 2
    Just imagine how dangerous the roads would be if you just said that adult could just start to drive at 18 or 21, but were not allowed to drive a car before. At 21 you could buy and drive a car, but if you were caught driving before that you would be arrested.

    I am not saying that drinking is a skill, but the craziness occurs because many kids go from not being allowed to drink, ever, to having unrestricted access. I think that most of us have learned that abstinence does not work, but still we think we can let kids learn to drink all at once and not see terrible consequences.

    In civilized places like Texas a parent is an affirmative defense to a minor drinking. I certainly knew how to manage my drinking by the time I was 18. I saw many people without this skill get shit faced. Of course when people are getting drunk for the first time as adults without supervision there are going to be negative consequences.

    Also, of course, there are people who are addicts, and those people need to be identified early and provided with appropriate medical attention. I can't imagine a worse time to learn one is an addict than at college.

    --
    "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
    1. Re:Don't drink and derive by markus · · Score: 3

      Don't drink and derive

  7. Good luck with that by Nidi62 · · Score: 3, Informative

    I went to a rural Baptist university. A dry campus in a dry town (the one sports bar in town could only serve beer and wine). We were going to parties on campus and getting drunk pretty much every weekend after our football games. Hell, I never even drank until I went to that school. I don't see Stanford being very successful.

    --
    The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
    1. Re:Good luck with that by markus · · Score: 2

      Went to a retreat at a monastery in German one time. They immediately told us about the three B's. They has placed the chapel right next to the swimming pool and the bar. You could pray ( Beten), swim ( Baden) and drink ( Bier trinken) all that the same time. Those Catholic monks know how to party.

  8. How is it on Colorado campuses these days? by swb · · Score: 2

    While I'm sure the Colorado campuses have reactionary rules regarding marijuana consumption -- to mollify parents, and because they're so paranoid about alcohol they'd naturally extend the same confused Calvinistic moralism to marijuana -- how has it affected campus alcohol consumption?

    I'm guessing it hasn't gone away, but I wonder if serious incidents have declined. Of course I would expect many people to "double their pleasure", smoking pot and drinking, I would kind of expect that pot consumption would temper the desire for alcohol consumption, either from a don't-want-to-get-off-the-couch perspective or simply because getting high got them 50% of the inebriation they could tolerate and the booze necessary for the other 50% manages to be below the puke-and-black-out level that using only alcohol would produce.

  9. An opportunity for innovation by TheSouthernDandy · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Lisa Lapin, the vice president of university communications, clarified that the goal is to prevent medical transports [i.e. trips to the hospital].

    That's an eminently achievable goal without any restrictions on activities at all.

    If they really aren't comfortable with a "leave 'em where they lie" policy, the admniistration could always try a new sanctioned procedure of (1) propping them in the corner, (2) feeding them a spoon of Ipecac, and (3) hooking a gallon IV to their arm until morning. I'll bet < $100/instance with a minimally trained campus volunteer squad. Other than ensuring the little 'uns don't fall forward to drown in their own vomit, a hospital isn't going to be able to do much more than that.

  10. Lawsuits by tomhath · · Score: 3, Interesting

    They need to put on a show of trying to control drinking after the high profile rape case. Everyone knows it's just a ritual, but they need to do it.

  11. It's based on plenty of research by Dunbal · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Trouble is, you think it's scientific research. No, this is legal research. Sanford talked to their lawyers and said "how can we avoid being sued or have our brand associated with this". The lawyers gave a reply. And thus a new rule is born.

    --
    Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.